Trump's words at his TV conference:

"A drug called chloroquine—and some people would add to it, hydroxychloroquine—so chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine...it's been around for a long time, so if things don't go as planned it's not going to kill anybody."


A husband and wife took Trump's advice and ingested the drug on Trump's advice.

The woman is in the ICU unit in an Arizona hospital.

The man is dead.

A clear example of the unintended tragic consequences of putting fake information into the public domain. Bad enough the person who put it out there has done this many times before, and even referred to this crisis as a political hoax even, and berated other countries with his labels game, but people actually are listening to him when he does it and believe the crap.

Sadly one has little hope that he and others will learn a damn thing from this and other similar experiences and change for the better. His last press conference with the conspicuous absence of Dr. Fauci does not bode well for delivering much facts coming from this lying cheating dufus at a time when we need the truth.

Reaching a little bit, aren’t you?

Chloroquine is an anti-malaria drug, while hydroxychloroquine is a drug used to treat lupus.

You can’t blame Trump for their stupidity. It isn’t his fault any more than it is yours that they were stupid enough to try this combination.

This combo is all over the media right right now and is showing some promise in the medical community.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETjwYdOWsAYXG0H?format=jpg&name=900x900 (https://twitter.com/NCDCgov/status/1241006420419641345/photo/1)

I

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-19/trump-touts-malaria-drug-as-potential-coronavirus-treatment



Even those in Trump’s inner circle have cautioned against equating early research on drugs with proof that they work.

I can go with stupid for taking such tragic actions, but that's all some people need are the careless exaggerated words of the highest office in the land.

who told them to take it without a doctor's direction ? What dose did they take ? Trump is not the only person who said that the anti-malerial may be a treatment . Your hatred of Trump clouds your mind. J9 is right on ! Trump was not exaggerating either .NY began trials with 70,000 doses today . If a NYer dies during the clinical trials will il Duce Cuomo be a killer too ? Tell you what . If I'm near death and that is a last hope . Then I would be more than will to try it ….. under a doctors supervision .

if only there was some sort of warning on the package of tablets warning against human consumption .... https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/90187830_10219853412359059_7431461240867651584_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=1480c5&_nc_oc=AQl_3_7Wgn2-CYatVfWhG6Tceh5Ph9kY97b4pl31_7KdgpnfZTIIsCzplWpoTM Mdb4E&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=b165de742ee278fd34cb3e2f9d69a6ac&oe=5E9ECA3E

They ingested tablets meant to clean fish tanks
https://710wor.iheart.com/content/2020-03-24-arizona-man-dies-after-ingesting-choloroquine-in-attempt-to-prevent-virus/?Keyid=socialflow&Pname=local_social&Sc=editorial&fbclid=IwAR2JtuMa3UoHy6U9Jo0RfJR9nt_KcFfwn9kKS_SXz AlgaJBjj4xiAM1uvE0

Trump's first kill is more than likely to be followed by many others who took his deadly advice and took the killing drug.

NY State needs 30,000 ventilators. Trump's government has stockpiled 20,000 ventilators. Trump's FEMA is sending 400 to NY. Where are the other 19,600 ventilators? Why are they not being sent to NY instead of sitting in the stockpile?

Look for more dead, hundreds maybe thousands, as Trump denies medical pros who are insisting on people staying home and keeping a safe distance, etc., etc., to slow the virus.

All this is for his "economy" which he sees as critical to his re-election and which he favors far more than the American people. This is the man you Trump supporters voted for and continue to support.

Pray you don't have elderly parents. Or are elderly yourself.

I am elderly and in a "critical " business which means I show up for work every day and risk exposure . NY state and every state in the union decides the level of supply of health care equipment ,the number of hospital beds ,the number of doctors allowed to set up shop ,and indeed how many new medical licenses they permit .

As far as the national supply . Well I already addressed that in other threds . Basically Bush's adm created a strategic reserve of critical supplies.....

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/pdf/pandemic-influenza-strategy-2005.pdf
…..that were exhausted during H1N1 swine flu in 2009 when 3/4 of the strategic supply was distributed but never replenished . If you look deep buried in this Bloomberg article you find this :



The national stockpile used to be somewhat more robust. In 2006, Congress provided supplemental funds to add 104 million N95 masks and 52 million surgical masks in an effort to prepare for a flu pandemic. But after the H1N1 influenza outbreak in 2009, which triggered a nationwide shortage of masks and caused a 2- to 3-year backlog orders for the N95 variety, the stockpile distributed about three-quarters of its inventory and didn't build back the supply
.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/hospital-makes-face-masks-covid-19-shields-from-office-supplies

So it takes a heavy load of TDS to blame Trump for the supply shortages .

So it takes a heavy load of TDS to blame Trump for the supply shortages


It also takes a heavy load to blame Trump for what ignorant people do, who takes drugs without a doctor's prescription and supervision. Trump maybe a little quick to speak but he has done no more than the media has done, do you hold the media responsible for the people they have killed with misinformation?

Trump was informed of the coming pandemic in January. He did nothing to start replenishing supplies. To this day, he has refused to use the power of his office to organize the private manufacture of needed masks, gowns, and equipment for the ridiculous reason that he doesn't want to "nationalize" private industry.

He has wasted months doing little in terms of necessary medical supplies. He keeps talking about "millions this and millions that" but the entire medical community continues to say that they're not getting anywhere near what he is claiming. Trump is a known liar and this crisis is no different.

He claims to be "very smart medically and the doctors agree with me". Today, he said "I want to fill the churches on Easter". The poor doctor behind him was horrified.

This pandemic is exposing Trump for what he truly is - an incompetent braggart.

It also takes a heavy load to blame Trump for what ignorant people do, who takes drugs without a doctor's prescription and supervision. Trump maybe a little quick to speak but he has done no more than the media has done, do you hold the media responsible for the people they have killed with misinformation?Very good summary. How did that couple manage to take those meds without a prescription? I don't think they just "decided" to take the drug. That sounds pretty wild.

This pandemic is exposing Trump for what he truly is - an incompetent braggart.

we didn't need a pandemic for that, it has been apparent since he first set foot on the political stage, but what does that say of his supporters

Very good summary. How did that couple manage to take those meds without a prescription? I don't think they just "decided" to take the drug. That sounds pretty wild.
Yeah, wild. "What the heck -- the name of the fish tank cleaner is close enough."

"A [Phoenix] couple in their 60s tried to fend off the coronavirus with an additive used in fish tank cleaners, according to a health care company.

The Arizona-based company reported the pair had to be hospitalized within 30 minutes of ingesting chloroquine phosphate (http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/trending-now-at-banner?item=122999) — which is commonly used to clean fish tanks in aquariums, according to a news release on Monday."
https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article241445901.html

***There are still things we don’t know about [Hydroxychloroquine],” Caudle told Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/media)' Trace Gallagher early Tuesday.

Caudle went on to say, “Just because we’ve used it for other conditions doesn’t mean that we would know if in the context of this disease state, if it’s safe, if it’s effective, at what dosing.”***
https://www.foxnews.com/media/family-physician-cautions-anti-malaria-drug-coronavirus

Trump was informed of the coming pandemic in January. He did nothing to start replenishing supplies
yup and he quickly acted by restricting travel from China(for which he was call xenophobic) ;and set up the task force that Pence leads all while Pelosi was handing out impeachment pens and delaying bringing articles of impeachment to the Senate for trial .


To this day, he has refused to use the power of his office to organize the private manufacture of needed masks, gowns, and equipment for the ridiculous reason that he doesn't want to "nationalize" private industry.
It happens to be a very good reason because we do not live in a fascist society where a dictator tells industry what they can or cant make .


He has wasted months doing little in terms of necessary medical supplies.
and where is the finger pointing at the states who actually have the mandate and authority to decide the level of preparedness in the State . You are familiar with certificate of need (CON) state laws right . These are the very laws that let state governments decide everything in their state re medical including hospitals ,beds ,staffing ,ventilators ,masks ..... in short all the stuff il Duce is crying that NY doesn't have enough of . Well why NOT ? I live in NY and I am sad and angry at what is about to happen here . I ask myself as one of the highest taxed persons on the planet ;where did the money that I pay in taxes go ? The one and only thing I have ever asked government, national, state ,and local is to protect us.
New York state has NOT used it's mandate to create capacity Instead it has used it to INTENTIONALLY restrict capacity . Cuomo has been sounding the alarm for weeks . But he has been governor since 2011 . In other words he had a decade to prepare . NY as many states was critically short of hospital beds long before the outbreak. The country has 3.2 beds per thousand . Compare that to South Korea that has 12 per thousand. So they keep their inventory low counting on the Federal Government to bail them out just like they do for all types of disaster relief . WE ARE A FEDERAL REPUBLIC and states are supposed to do their part . Clearly NY state has been negligent . Cuomo had the chance in 2015 to purchase 16,000 ventilators knowing that by state assessments they were short of what was needed for a pandemic. Did he buy them ? NO .Now he says there are none to be found a week or so before it becomes critical here . Now companies are VOLUNTARILY gearing up to build them . But anyone who understands manufacturing knows you can't retool over night to build products you have never made before . Nationalizing them would not change that reality . What was NY's plan ? To ration and have death panels. That is the grim reality that is about to befall the state I love . Any hope is coming as rapidly as it can from the President you love to hate . Go ahead and throw spitballs from the cheap seats . Just imagine in Trump has invoked emergency powers in the middle of a Senate trial . What would you have said ? The nice thing would've been wag the dog. But in fact the unhinged left would've seen that as further grounds for impeachment you bunch of hypocrites !

"A [Phoenix] couple in their 60s tried to fend off the coronavirus with an additive used in fish tank cleaners, according to a health care company.

The Arizona-based company reported the pair had to be hospitalized within 30 minutes of ingesting chloroquine phosphate (http://bannerhealth.mediaroom.com/trending-now-at-banner?item=122999) — which is commonly used to clean fish tanks in aquariums, according to a news release on Monday."
https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavi...241445901.html (https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavirus/article241445901.html)

***There are still things we don’t know about [Hydroxychloroquine],” Caudle told Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/media)' Trace Gallagher early Tuesday.

Caudle went on to say, “Just because we’ve used it for other conditions doesn’t mean that we would know if in the context of this disease state, if it’s safe, if it’s effective, at what dosing.”***
https://www.foxnews.com/media/family...ug-coronavirus (https://www.foxnews.com/media/family-physician-cautions-anti-malaria-drug-coronavirus)

So they took a chemical meant to clean fish tanks? I don't recall Trump suggesting that. In order to take what Trump was plainly referring to, you would have to see a doctor and get a prescription. Not real complicated.

we didn't need a pandemic for that, it has been apparent since he first set foot on the political stage, but what does that say of his supporters


His supporters, sadly, are as ill-informed and ignorant as Trump himself. For the most part, they follow him blindly leading, in this instance, to death.


It happens to be a very good reason because we do not live in a fascist society where a dictator tells industry what they can or cant make .

RIDICULOUS COMMENT! This is an emergency-, exactly what the act was designed for. You types would sacrifice countless lives to preserve your pathetic little philosophy that helps no one.

If you can find where Trump suggested that people take the fish tank cleaner called chloroquine phosphate, then you might have a point. Otherwise it's yet another example of TDS.

I would like to see it cited where Trump actually said “Mr & Mrs Jones, if you want to be cured you need to eat fish tank cleaner.” Without that, you against him, and this argument, don’t have a leg to stand on. Just shut up and sit down about it. You can’t blame Trump for people being idiots. If this happened during the Obama administration, you would be saying the same thing I am.

Idiots abound. It’s not your fault. It’s not my fault. It’s not Trump’s fault. He is doing so much better than Obama did during the H1N1 scare.

You can’t blame Trump for people being idiots.

He is doing so much better than Obama did during the H1N1 scare.True and true.

If you can find where Trump suggested that people take the fish tank cleaner called chloroquine phosphate, then you might have a point. Otherwise it's yet another example of TDS.
chloroquine phosphate -- heck, that's almost the same stuff in hydroxychloroquine, what Trump said will work! Let's try it and see if it really works!

chloroquine phosphate -- heck, that's almost the same stuff in hydroxychloroquine, what Trump said will work! Let's try it and see if it really works!


It has been demonstrated to work here under medical supervision when used on those who have been diagnosed not as a preventative but as a medication for someone infected

It has been demonstrated to work here under medical supervision when used on those who have been diagnosed not as a preventative but as a medication for someone infected
But without phosphate....

RIDICULOUS COMMENT! This is an emergency-, exactly what the act was designed for. You types would sacrifice countless lives to preserve your pathetic little philosophy that helps no one.

In the context where it is applicable Trump has already used the DPA . He is using loans and other incentives to
boost the production of critical goods and essential equipment .He has received
voluntary agreements with many companies including GM to make ventilators ,and breweries to make hand sanitizers . They are retooling . You idiot think that happens over night . What you guys really want is the precedent of the President nationalizing a business or industry . Then when the Dems are in control they can invoke it again and again under any pretext calling it a national crisis . This act was created in 1950 when we were in a real war. You guys have no shame . You don't even try to disguise your true motives anymore . https://news.yahoo.com/dem-rep-told-colleagues-coronavirus-145245071.html

chloroquine phosphate -- heck, that's almost the same stuff in hydroxychloroquine,You never took a chem class, did you?

It has been demonstrated to work here under medical supervision when used on those who have been diagnosed not as a preventative but as a medication for someone infected

Let the clinical trials begin.

Clinical trials have been underway for days.

In the context where it is applicable Trump has already used the DPA . He is using loans and other incentives to
boost the production of critical goods and essential equipment .He has received
voluntary agreements with many companies including GM to make ventilators ,and breweries to make hand sanitizers . They are retooling . You idiot think that happens over night . What you guys really want is the precedent of the President nationalizing a business or industry . Then when the Dems are in control they can invoke it again and again under any pretext calling it a national crisis . This act was created in 1950 when we were in a real war. You guys have no shame . You don't even try to disguise your true motives anymore . https://news.yahoo.com/dem-rep-told-colleagues-coronavirus-145245071.html



This is a national emergency unlike immigration or any other national emergency and money grab the dufus has tried already.


Clinical trials have been underway for days.

Think we get a cure by Easter?

A cure? Possibly, but the better bet is on expanded testing that will enable us to not have to shut down everything simply because a very small minority has the virus. We better start paying attention to the economy. I would think that should concern us much more than the virus.

A small minority can grow rather fast as we are seeing everywhere so far, without solid preventative measures and in this case the economy takes a hit because workers get sick or pass it to healthy people. The real danger is that the health care system gets overwhelmed by sick people and that's where we are. Not seeing much improvement in the next few weeks and not enough to change the minds of governors as long as the infection rate and death toll keeps rising.

In the context where it is applicable Trump has already used the DPA . He is using loans and other incentives to
boost the production of critical goods and essential equipment .He has received
voluntary agreements with many companies including GM to make ventilators ,and breweries to make hand sanitizers . They are retooling . You idiot think that happens over night . What you guys really want is the precedent of the President nationalizing a business or industry . Then when the Dems are in control they can invoke it again and again under any pretext calling it a national crisis . This act was created in 1950 when we were in a real war. You guys have no shame . You don't even try to disguise your true motives anymore . https://news.yahoo.com/dem-rep-told-colleagues-coronavirus-145245071.html



Pure BS! You right-wing loonies simply parrot everything your hero Trump says without any regard to the truth. You've been doing exactly that for three+ years. If everything is so hunky-dory why does the medical crowd on the ground say otherwise? Do you think all those doctors and nurses are lying?

It's time for you to realize what kind of evil character you've sold your soul for.

someone turn off the tap,

Reaching a little bit, aren’t you?

Chloroquine is an anti-malaria drug, while hydroxychloroquine is a drug used to treat lupus.

You can’t blame Trump for their stupidity. It isn’t his fault any more than it is yours that they were stupid enough to try this combination.

This combo is all over the media right right now and is showing some promise in the medical community.


An older couple, fearing all the warnings about the virus, listens to the president advising about a drug re the virus and they try it trusting in the president. The man dies and the woman is probably dying, and you call them stupid???

Don't nurses show compassion for patients, especially those who are confused and frightened? Yet, to you, they are "stupid".

Sadly, when a person ingests a chemical made for cleaning fish tanks, then that would qualify as doing something stupid. And when someone tries to blame it on the pres who never suggested that anyone do anything like that, then it qualifies as political desperation and a classic symptom of TDS.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom/vgo/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by tomder55 https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom/vgo/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?p=3850825#post3850825)
In the context where it is applicable Trump has already used the DPA . He is using loans and other incentives toboost the production of critical goods and essential equipment .He has receivedvoluntary agreements with many companies including GM to make ventilators ,and breweries to make hand sanitizers . They are retooling . You idiot think that happens over night . What you guys really want is the precedent of the President nationalizing a business or industry . Then when the Dems are in control they can invoke it again and again under any pretext calling it a national crisis . This act was created in 1950 when we were in a real war. You guys have no shame . You don't even try to disguise your true motives anymore . https://news.yahoo.com/dem-rep-told-...145245071.html (https://news.yahoo.com/dem-rep-told-colleagues-coronavirus-145245071.html)





Pure BS! You right-wing loonies simply parrot everything your hero Trump says without any regard to the truth. You've been doing exactly that for three+ years. If everything is so hunky-dory why does the medical crowd on the ground say otherwise? Do you think all those doctors and nurses are lying?

It's time for you to realize what kind of evil character you've sold your soul for.

Nothing BS about it . More and more companies are stepping up to the plate . example ;yesterday the guy who makes 'My Pillow' turned his operation into the production of surgical masks . There are scores of examples all over the country and they will deliver much sooner than a company the President compels . You talk about my philosophy . But you demonstrate that what you want is Venezuela north . That's why you cream in your pants whenever Bolshevik Bernie speaks .

Tal
This is a national emergency unlike immigration or any other national emergency and money grab the dufus has tried already.

I will speak to the cr@p sandwich that passed in the Senate in more detail . Suffice it to say that the$1 trillion by far exceeds the combined $1.1 billion allocated for Zika in 2016 ;$5.4 billion for Ebola in 2011 ;and $7 billion for swine flu in 2009 .ALL of these epidemics were much larger and more dangerous than the Wuhan virus . None resulted in a panic ;and no one suggested that we should have either martial law like we are seeing on a regional basis ,or nationalization of our industries .

Tom, we have become so accustomed to the borrowing/printing of multiple hundreds of billions of dollars every year that we scarcely notice it anymore. It is a national insanity. It's like the guy who routinely rides his motorcycle at 100mph and has become convinced he can get away with it forever.

It's an election year. No one wants to be the guy who stands and says, "Let's not spend a single penny more than is absolutely necessary." The political opposition and the national media will crush that kind of thinking. "Don't you care about all the suffering millions?"

You say that Tom as the hospitals in your city reach critical capacity and resources are dwindling rapidly and the virus rages on? As all those extra beds get filled you will need the manpower to deal with them and the proper safety equipment to protect them. That's the crap sandwich you serve yourself comparing old events to new ones.

The whole country is watching NY, and charity/volunteers don't seem to be enough. If NY falls then what chance does the rest of the county have?

The whole country is watching NY, and charity/volunteers don't seem to be enough. If NY falls then what chance does the rest of the county have?I think that will be determined by NYC.

Don't know how much louder or clearer the governor can call for federal help.

tal all I have to say is what I said previously . il Duce had a decade to prepare . But just like your typical lib ;NY squanders the plunder of their obscene taxes and leaves the state vulnerable knowing that when push comes to shove ; they will whine that the Federal government is not taking care of them . The level of corruption in NY State government may be the worse in the nation . il Duce ran as a reformer and set up the Moreland Commission to weed out corruption .When the commission's investigation got too close to the Cuomo family and his gumbas ,he disbanded it . As I already wrote certificate of need (CON) state laws allow state governments the authority to set their level of preparedness. Maybe all the taxes I pay making the Cuomo crime family rich should've been used to support public safety .


Don't know how much louder or clearer the governor can call for federal help. lol you mean the man most responsible for the 2008 crash is now the savior of the nation . how precious .

No state is prepared as they should be for a pandemic. That's a given, so the question becomes what should we do now that we have one? Nobody seems to care about what the dufus did 12 years ago, so why are we wasting time judging Cuomo? That's a distraction to the real problems of sourcing hospitals NOW!

N But you demonstrate that what you want is Venezuela north . That's why you cream in your pants whenever Bolshevik Bernie speaks .

Where in the world do you get these ideas? I think you pull them out of your arse when the truth fails you. For the record, I am not a "Bolshevik", a Republican or a Democrat. I'm an Independent, sometimes for the Repubs, other times for the Dems.

As to how Trump is handling the crisis, he's a disaster. He has no idea how to manage an emergency. Even worse, he's too narcissistic to listen to any expert who may have the requisite skills.

It's not rocket science. Create a central marshaling point, get the info from those in need, and distribute the goods as and where needed. This is after you have organized the manufacturing process to produce what is needed.

What you DON'T do is leave everyone to do whatever they want and hope that the market forces will deliver the goods. Thank God someone like Trump wasn't at Normandy. Wartime president!! What a joke!!

The dufus said the government isn't a delivery service and with that attitude you know you're on your own. Go buy that Easter bonnet and pray for the fools who listens to him, like that poor deluded couple in Arizona. You need more proof NOT to listen to the lying cheating incompetent dufus?

A hard head makes a soft arse!

like that poor deluded couple in Arizona they are the product of a nanny state that tells people how and when to wipe their A$$ and how much tp to use while doing it . They are like the kids who think Tide pods are safe to eat .

Athos lol I did not call you Bolshevik I called Sanders that . But if you think nationalization is a solution then maybe you are

No state is prepared as they should be for a pandemic. That's a given,Why do you give the states a pass but not the feds? How could anyone have anticipated this type of pandemic?

they are the product of a nanny state that tells people how and when to wipe their A$$ and how much tp to use while doing it . They are like the kids who think Tide pods are safe to eat .

Seeing as how the wife said it was the dufus who planted the seed that nanny state stuff is just so much rhetoric, and even if you cannot blame the dufus, you still must take everything he says and does with great skepticism, and thankfully even repubs do.

No worries though Tom, I recognize your rugged individualistic character, even though you are a conservative capitalist. Not necessarily in that order, and I get as riled when my nest egg gets disrupted too. Or when I ain't got nuthin' to wipe my arse with. Down to my last roll between just the two of us. Ain't gonna make it till Easter!

the wife said it was the dufus who planted the seedShow us where the pres told people to eat fish tank chems and that might be a valid point. Otherwise it is totally stupid and just more TDS.

Why do you give the states a pass but not the feds? How could anyone have anticipated this type of pandemic?

I give no one a pass, but that's the feds job is to insure the welfare of it's citizens no matter what the debt is. If the feds cannot help the states, who are people American citizens, then they should be replaced starting at the top.

I don't blame the dufus, the fed, or the states, for being unprepared, but I damn sure can beetch about how the situation is dealt with and right now don't get me started on the Texas governor.

https://abc13.com/6048933/

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/19/texas-coronavirus-response-136061

well keep on running around like chicken little scaring the sheeple. You'll never replenish because when it becomes available the scared people who have nothing better to do than store hop will buy it all up . Me I have essential work to do .

BTW ; here is how il Duce took care of his state . 2015 it became apparent that NY did not have a sufficient supply of ventilators . WE were 16,000 short of what was deemed necessary to handle a pandemic . Health commissioner, Howard Zucker, assembled a task force for rationing the ventilators they already had. Here were the numbers at $36,000 apiece,the state would need to invest a total of $576 million to replenish up to standard . Now they are not available to purchase at any price. Cuomo and NY STATE could've made the call to make the purchase . But as is the wont of blue state guvs . They know that if they scream loud enough and blame shift they can pass the buck to the federal government . You don't see a pattern yet ? They are never prepared

As far as quinine based drugs ;they have been used for years to treat malaria . They are safe and effective if prescribed by your doctor who knows your medical history . Neither Trump nor anyone else told the couple to down some fish bowl cleaner .

I give no one a pass, Sure you did. Here's your quote. "No state is prepared as they should be for a pandemic. That's a given."


but that's the feds job is to insure the welfare of it's citizensBut not the states'? See what I mean about giving passes?


no matter what the debt is.Perfectly example of why we are sinking in a sea of debt. No one would ever have said such an irresponsible statement forty years ago. Now it is the common way of seeing the world. Our poor grandchildren will pay dearly for this.

It's a bit late to play woulda, shoulda, coulda, and my grandkids and kids know they are on their own and can think for themselves, and may well have to help out and clean up my mess. Maybe our generation will start cleaning up it's own mess before we leave it to the next generation. Watched my elders take care of their elders, and my kids watched me take care of mine. They know the drill. My kids and grand kids are more than capable of dealing with whatever life throws at them. Hope yours are too.

Nobody's perfect though.

my grandkids and kids know they are on their own and can think for themselves, and may well have to help out and clean up my mess. Maybe our generation will start cleaning up it's own mess before we leave it to the next generation. Watched my elders take care of their elders, and my kids watched me take care of mine. They know the drill. My kids and grand kids are more than capable of dealing with whatever life throws at them. Hope yours are too.Dear God what a cavalier attitude. I'm so glad my parents did not look at me that way. Instead of hindering me, they helped me. That should be our attitude towards our children and grandchildren. It's on the level of cutting off one of their arms and then saying, "Hey. You can handle that. After all, you're more than capable of dealing with whatever life (a.k.a. your grandfather) throws at you."

LOL, that's your spin and inane as your logic. My kids need the truth to be prepared for anything, and endure and persevere. That's what I got, that's what they get. I will thank you respectfully if you stay out of my families business. I stay well away from yours so return the favor. PLEASE!

My kids need the truth to be prepared for anything, and endure and persevere.That's nothing but garbage. You kick your grandkids in the rear end and then tell them to be prepared for anything and endure? What an attitude. Like I said, I'm so glad my parents did not approach life that way.

As to leaving your family out of it, you're the one who brought them into the discussion. "..my grandkids and kids know they are on their own and can think for themselves." If you don't want them to be involved in this, then don't bring them up.

As far as quinine based drugs ;they have been used for years to treat malaria . They are safe and effective if prescribed by your doctor who knows your medical history . Neither Trump nor anyone else told the couple to down some fish bowl cleaner .
The couple saw that fish-tank cleaner contains chloroquine and wow! that's in the malaria drug our dear leader says will work to cure this virus, so let's give it a try!

Which is about as dumb as going out and buying fertilizer to eat because someone said it makes things grow. Like I said earlier, I don't think you took a chem course. What they took was plainly NOT what the pres was referring to.

However, it is nice to see you posting. You take these long breaks sometimes.

Which is about as dumb as going out and buying fertilizer to eat because someone said it makes things grow. Like I said earlier, I don't think you took a chem course.
I took one in high school and one in college. I'm betting this Phoenix couple never took a chem course.

What they took was plainly NOT what the pres was referring to.
Close enough, they thought.

However, it is nice to see you posting. You take these long breaks sometimes.
I read these threads several times a day to keep up. Tal (and Athos) does a great job saying what I would have -- or wish I would have.

Close enough, they thought.They thought wrong. Evidently two people out of over 300 million somehow got the message that ingesting fish tank cleaner would solve their problems, so while tragic, it is sheer lunacy to blame that on Trump.


Tal (and Athos) does a great job saying what I would have Not me??? Ouch!! Didn't you notice that I was the ONLY ONE to speak positively of your return to the board???

The couple saw that fish-tank cleaner contains chloroquine and wow! that's in the malaria drug our dear leader says will work to cure this virus, so let's give it a try! stupid is as stupid does

They thought wrong. Evidently two people out of over 300 million somehow got the message that ingesting fish tank cleaner would solve their problems, so while tragic, it is sheer lunacy to blame that on Trump.
I blame that and so much more on his careless speech.

Not me??? Ouch!! Didn't you notice that I was the ONLY ONE to speak positively of your return to the board???
Please reread what I had said about them -- I very much agree with them (not you so much). But thank you for missing me. Tal, Athos, and I have known each other for years and know we three enjoy reading each others' posts.

I blame that and so much more on his careless speech.Oh well. Two people out of 315 million. Yeah. I would say that sort of proves his speech, in this matter, was very clear.


Please reread what I had said about them -- I very much agree with them (not you so much).I know. I was joking with you.


But thank you for missing me. Tal, Athos, and I have known each other for years and know we three enjoy reading each others' posts.So you really agree with Tal that running up, at the last count, 25 tril of national debt and putting that on the backs of our grandchildren to the tune of 80 grand PER PERSON is just one of those things? You really would agree with that?

And you really would dispute the idea that blaming Trump for 2 people out of 315 million coming to the conclusion that it is a good thing to take fish tank cleaner is pretty absurd?

Oh well. Two people out of 315 million. Yeah. I would say that sort of proves his speech, in this matter, was very clear.
Yes, am surprised more haven't tried something like that.

And you really would dispute the idea that blaming Trump for 2 people out of 315 million coming to the conclusion that it is a good thing to take fish tank cleaner is pretty absurd?
In a press conference, Trump said the prescription will be available “almost immediately” to the general public.

Must be good stuff. Let's take some!

So you really agree with Tal that running up, at the last count, 25 tril of national debt and putting that on the backs of our grandchildren to the tune of 80 grand PER PERSON is just one of those things? You really would agree with that?

I think most people would agree we don't give a crap adding to the debt when we or loved ones or people we know could be sick, very sick or die. When faced with those realities even healthy people have to consider what if that was me, or what if I infect someone else?

Have you considered that point of view?

I think most people would agree we don't give a crap adding to the debt when we or loved ones or people we know could be sick, very sick or die. When faced with those realities even healthy people have to consider what if that was me, or what if I infect someone else?

Have you considered that point of view?How much of the 2 tril do you suppose is going to treat people who are sick?


Yes, am surprised more haven't tried something like that.Yeah. Amazing how many people are able to comprehend the meaning of plain English.

I hope all of them.

I hope all of them.Not even close.

Probably not, but you have to try. Be helpful if those first responders get what they need to hhelp best they humanly can, and that would be a step in the right direction.

you serious ? Almost none of the porkulus is designed to help patients . But don't let your heart be troubled . Lincoln Center ;which has private donations and patrons up the kazoo is bailed out .

Lincoln Center ;which has private donations and patrons up the kazoo is bailed out .Thank goodness! I was really worried about that. It's good to know they're taking care of the truly essential details with all of that money we don't have.

I can only say they made sure money for that specific entity was included in the package to bail out the corporations and makes sense in that context considering the 10 years of profits and tax windfalls that seem to have disappeared all of a sudden.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91442288_10156721118632471_8804012138742939648_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_oc=AQk4z7TG6mu6ucSOnzpxtxRFfEXuMOfIsodaty8bydJ SIQAe3r2Dyh8HgiUfrW29iho&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=19a321c6f715a21c850c028ecc20c935&oe=5EA598E0

I've been reading the claims but I think waiting for the clinical trial results is prudent, and least we forget that poor Arizona couple, strict physician supervision is a must.

https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/91181625_10156721632852471_6856595364540055552_n.j pg?_nc_cat=106&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQmrzXqbVUG1qo38kcmKYiqb9889rDzJ4JR4Gy0RKtB ae6dwRnSKl7htz7qsdXC4WGE&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-1.xx&oh=363529fc58e89492751bdc8f34987281&oe=5EA4EF97

I would certainly agree that we need to have "strict physician supervision" when we're taking fish tank cleaner.

Noth Carolina suspending Certificates of Need so they can add more hospital beds .



The rule said hospitals couldn’t add more than 10% of their licensed bed capacity without state approval.


Before NCDHHS suspended the rules, hospitals couldn’t add or relocate acute care beds without applying for a CON. Applying for a CON can cost as much as $500,000, and the state board which grants CONs doesn’t meet for months.The State Health Coordinating Council — which approves CON applications — doesn’t meet until June. The Acute Care Services Committee meets in April.

http://www.thetribunepapers.com/2020/03/15/north-carolina-temporarily-lifts-restrictions-on-hospital-beds/

Makes sense to end around that rule in this emergency. They've been trying to modify it for years.

Trump's First Kill of an American CitizenIf he can get three more, wouldn't he match what Obama's inattention caused in Benghazi?

If he can get three more, wouldn't he match what Obama's inattention caused in Benghazi?
Despite persistent accusations against President Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Susan Rice — a total of ten investigations, six by Republican-controlled congressional committees — did not find that they or any other high-ranking Obama administration officials had acted improperly.

did not find that they or any other high-ranking Obama administration officials had acted improperlyFirst of all, if you are going to quote from a Wiki article, then you should at least put it in quotes. Secondly, there is no question but that Susan Rice lied on five Sunday morning news shows when she bluntly stated that the attack was the result of an offensive video. There is also no question that the Obama administration did nothing whatsoever to help the people on the ground during the many hours of the attack. There was not even an attempt made to assist them. And it certainly is plain that the many pleas for additional security from the compound in Benghazi fell on deaf ears. If not for a private security team, there would have been no help at all given to the diplomatic personnel.

I honestly cannot understand why you are so quick to criticize Trump for simply saying he thought a particular drug showed promise in treating CV, while going so far out of your way to make excuses for Obama. It seems to be such a one-sided approach to things.

First of all, if you are going to quote from a Wiki article, then you should at least put it in quotes. Secondly, there is no question but that Susan Rice lied on five Sunday morning news shows when she bluntly stated that the attack was the result of an offensive video. There is also no question that the Obama administration did nothing whatsoever to help the people on the ground during the many hours of the attack. There was not even an attempt made to assist them. And it certainly is plain that the many pleas for additional security from the compound in Benghazi fell on deaf ears. If not for a private security team, there would have been no help at all given to the diplomatic personnel.

I cannot understand why you are so quick to criticize Trump for simply saying he thought a particular drug showed promised in treating CV, while going so far out of your way to make excuses for Obama. More TDS???
I so love to see you riled up! Now I know how to do it!

Yep. Blatant partisanship will do it every time!

Dodging questions does it, too. "I cannot understand why you are so quick to criticize Trump for simply saying he thought a particular drug showed promised in treating CV, while going so far out of your way to make excuses for Obama."

Yep. Blatant partisanship will do it every time!

Dodging questions does it, too. "I cannot understand why you are so quick to criticize Trump for simply saying he thought a particular drug showed promised in treating CV, while going so far out of your way to make excuses for Obama."

Nobody understands why you keep using the same Benghazi meme for every criticism of the dufus either.

Just like, I suppose, no one understands why the whole issue of the elderly couple taking fish tank cleaner could have ever been blamed on Trump having pointed out the value of a prescription med. I do dearly love to highlight what seems to be such partisanship in giving Obama a pass for something he was clearly responsible for while throwing mud at Trump over something he had no control over. I guess an even-handed approach to being critical is what I'm after.

I NEVER gave him a pass as the buck stopped with him, his words, and actions. The same standard that the dufus should be held to. That doesn't seem to be enough for you and that's too bad, and sad.

It was much too early to throw out possible remedy names. Plus, Trump knows how gullible his true believers are.

I've never given anyone a pass for Benghazi.

not buying it . His comments were taken out of context by the selective c/p job Athos did . Here is his full comment ;keeping in mind that the very next day ,the FDA approved it as a compassionate use trial .



The FDA has also approved compassionate use for a significant number of patients. You know what that means. We’re also reviewing drugs that are approved abroad or drugs approved here for other uses.And, you know, one of the things that I’m most proud of that I got was Right to Try. That’s where somebody who’s ill, somebody who’s very sick — terminally ill, usually. In past administrations — we signed this a year and a half ago — you wouldn’t be able to even think about getting any of the drugs that may be showing great promise. Now — and they’ve been trying for many decades to get this approved and it sounds simple, but it’s not because there’s liability involved and lots of other things. And I was able to get it approved, working with Congress. Right to Try.This is beyond Right to Try. What we’re talking about today is beyond Right to Try. Right to Try has been, by the way, a tremendous success. People are living now that had no chance of living, where we take treatments that would — things that — that would have to go through years of a process. And if somebody was terminally ill — and I would say, “Why wouldn’t they be able to try this?” They’d go to Asia, they’d go to Europe, they’d go all over the world to try and find something. Or some people, if they had no money, would go home to die. They’d go home to die; they had no hope.Right to Try has been an incredible success. But this is beyond Right to Try. If treatments known to be safe in Europe, Japan, or other nations are effective against the virus, we’ll use that information to protect the health and safety of American people. Nothing will stand in our way as we pursue any avenue to find what best works against this horrible virus.Now, a drug called chloroquine — and some people would add to it “hydroxy-.” Hydroxychloroquine. So chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine. Now, this is a common malaria drug. It is also a drug used for strong arthritis. If somebody has pretty serious arthritis, also uses this in a somewhat different form. But it is known as a malaria drug, and it’s been around for a long time and it’s very powerful. But the nice part is, it’s been around for a long time, so we know that if it — if things don’t go as planned, it’s not going to kill anybody.When you go with a brand-new drug, you don’t know that that’s going to happen. You have to see and you have to go — long test. But this has been used in different forms — very powerful drug — in different forms. And it’s shown very encouraging — very, very encouraging early results. And we’re going to be able to make that drug available almost immediately. And that’s where the FDA has been so great. They — they’ve gone through the approval process; it’s been approved. And they did it — they took it down from many, many months to immediate. So we’re going to be able to make that drug available by prescription or states.I spoke with Governor Cuomo about it at great length last night, and he wants to be right on — on the — he wants to be first on line. And so I think that’s a tremendous — there’s tremendous promise, based on the results and other tests. There’s tremendous promise. And normally the FDA would take a long time to approve something like that, and it’s — it was approved very, very quickly and it’s now approved, by prescription. Individual states will handle it. They can handle it. Doctors will handle it. And I think it’s going to be — I think it’s going to be great.Then we’re quickly studying this drug, and while we’re continuing to study it — but the studying is going to be also done in — as it’s given out to large groups of people, perhaps in New York and other places. We’ll study it there.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-6


So informing people on the 19th ;and the FDA approved it on the 20th is "much too early" ?

not buying it . His comments were taken out of context by the selective c/p job Athos did . Here is his full comment ;keeping in mind that the very next day ,the FDA approved it as a compassionate use trial
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/remarks-president-trump-vice-president-pence-members-coronavirus-task-force-press-briefing-6
So informing people on the 19th ;and the FDA approved it on the 20th is "much too early" ?
The FDA didn't approve it for just anyone. Apparently, that couple wasn't the only one who has a problem understanding. The sentence is, "The FDA has also approved compassionate use for a significant number of patients."

and that was a true statement . NYC began their compassionate use trial last week . https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/new-york-starts-new-experimental-drug-therapies-to-treat-covid-19-heres-what-we-know/2341931/


and the operative words throughout his comment is by prescription. He advises no one to take the drug on their own
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-8W1msXoAEywgZ.jpg

It was much too early to throw out possible remedy names. Plus, Trump knows how gullible his true believers are.How do you know it was much too early? Even Clete had already been talking here about the drugs being successful in Australia. It was well known to just about everyone.


I've never given anyone a pass for Benghazi.Oh? So you do think it's fair to hold Obama and HC responsible for the loss of four lives?


I NEVER gave him a pass as the buck stopped with him, his words, and actions. The same standard that the dufus should be held to. That doesn't seem to be enough for you and that's too bad, and sad.The same standard? So you do agree that it's fair to hold Obama and HC responsible for the loss of four lives, and that's it's trivial nonsense to suggest that Trump has any responsibility at all for the tragic situation with the elderly couple, and that even the smallest suggestion that it amounted to "Trump's first kill of an American" is foolishness on a very high level?

How do you know it was much too early? Even Clete had already been talking here about the drugs being successful in Australia. It was well known to just about everyone.
Much too early for a non-medical person to throw it out as a possibility -- and that's all it was at that time, a possibility. Trump was foolish on a very high level.

Oh? So you do think it's fair to hold Obama and HC responsible for the loss of four lives?
Yes, if they're guilty.

Much too early for a non-medical person to throw it out as a possibility -- and that's all it was at that time, a possibility. Trump was foolish on a very high level.How do you it was much too early? Too early based on what standard?


Yes, if they're guilty.The magical "if". It's the pass you're giving to Obama. You just can't help yourself.

How do you it was much too early? Too early based on what standard?
Nothing official had yet been said about that as a remedy. It needs to undergo clinical trials. Hyping it wasn't his call as a non-medical person.

The magical "if". It's the pass you're giving to Obama. You just can't help yourself.
Why did the Republicans let it pass?

@Tom.

Shame to promise people something that could still be months off even if it works in other places. Even if they found someone who could use it now as a last resort, you would have to release liability for the doctor and hospital so why is everybody all jacked up when despite the claims and high hope NOBODY in the world is doing any wide spread uses with VERIFIED results.

@JL

When you going to accept the results of 7 investigations by multiple entities and stop pestering people to join your lynch mob after how many years? Okay Obama and HC bear responsibility for Benghazi! What exactly do you want from that?


Nothing official had yet been said about that as a remedy. It needs to undergo clinical trials. Hyping it wasn't his call as a non-medical person.

Why did the Republicans let it pass?

EXACTLY! What's wrong with your fellow conservatives WG?

Nothing official had yet been said about that as a remedy. It needs to undergo clinical trials. Hyping it wasn't his call as a non-medical person.Of course there had been official statements. Studies had been conducted both in France and China with the use of the drug and the results had been encouraging and had been publicized, so your statement was not correct. Now granted the studies were not complete, but the results had been encouraging, and that was what Trump referrering to. If a person wants to say that Trump should have been more reserved in his statement, then that's fine, but to suggest that he is somehow responsible for a person ingesting fish tank cleaner is lunacy, or to state that, "Trump was foolish on a very high level," is really getting WAYYY too much sugar for a dime.

Now Obama's State Department had known for weeks that the Benghazi consulate needed more security. Nothing was done. They then knew the place was under attack. Again, nothing was done. They knew it was a premeditated act of terror, but they sent Susan Rice out to lie to the American people and say it was a spontaneous reaction to an offensive video.

Might add that not a single person was ever held responsible by Obama for the Benghazi disaster.

So tell me. Who do you consider to be the truly guilty party in this discussion?


Okay Obama and HC bear responsibility for Benghazi! What exactly do you want from that?Good to hear you say that. So I guess my statement that Trump is still three people "killed" short of Obama is correct?


EXACTLY! What's wrong with your fellow conservatives WG?She is about as much of a conservative as I am a liberal dem.

She is about as much of a conservative as I am a liberal dem.
How do you figure?

Perhaps I'm wrong. Give us your conservative bonafides. I have noticed nothing from your posts that strikes me as conservative, but I'm willing to listen.

Here is why people lose confidence in the press. The first headline is from the NY Times. "President Trump Called Hydroxychloroquine a 'Game Changer,' But Experts Warn Against Self-Medicating With the Drug. Here’s What You Need to Know." On what planet did Trump suggest that people self medicate? When did we need to be told that a person should not self medicate with a couple of drugs that require a prescription?

The other is from, of all places, Weather.com. "Coronavirus Could Kill 200,000 in U.S. in Best Case Scenario; Americans Told to Stay Home Through April." I watched the press conference. The range she gave was 80 to 160 thousand, and she said she hoped it would be below the 80 figure. Later they had this headline. "1.6 to 2.2 million U.S. Deaths if No Precautionary Measures Taken." Well, aren't we taking precautionary measures?

This is one of our problems. In an effort to get traffic, these news agencies are going with the most sensational headlines possible.

Here is why people lose confidence in the press. The first headline is from the NY Times. "President Trump Called Hydroxychloroquine a 'Game Changer,' But Experts Warn Against Self-Medicating With the Drug. Here’s What You Need to Know." On what planet did Trump suggest that people self medicate? When did we need to be told that a person should not self medicate with a couple of drugs that require a prescription?

Obviously the couple in question acted from a profound fear, and were desperate enough to self medicate on POISON. Knowing that people are very afraid and even desperate, caution and discretion are advised, but nobody can ever accuse the dufus of either, and while he isn't responsible for their actions, a callous disregard for the effects of his words has always been a trademark of his style.


The other is from, of all places, Weather.com. "Coronavirus Could Kill 200,000 in U.S. in Best Case Scenario; Americans Told to Stay Home Through April." I watched the press conference. The range she gave was 80 to 160 thousand, and she said she hoped it would be below the 80 figure. Later they had this headline. "1.6 to 2.2 million U.S. Deaths if No Precautionary Measures Taken." Well, aren't we taking precautionary measures?

This is one of our problems. In an effort to get traffic, these news agencies are going with the most sensational headlines possible.

They all do it. Always have in recent memory. There is a lot of competition for viewers.

If Trump had NOT mentioned the two drugs, then libs would be endlessly criticizing him for failing to promote hope.

I have no issue with criticizing Trump for his mindless mouth running. I'll join with you on that, but to suggest that he killed someone with his remark is taking it way, way too far.

I think the distinctions in the reacts to the dufus words and actions are subject to the perspectives of those that have certain opinions. Of course the range wildly, but as I said some hold him responsible for the death, some do not, and know he has a big mouth, and some know he is a liar who must be looked at closely and verified.

No doubt where we all fall in our opinions, but I've never criticized him for his big mouth just the lies and exaggerations and I consider them dangerous.

all politicians who try to disseminate information at this time, instead of leaving it to experts, are going to get it wrong, Trump issued some "fake news" it had the ring of truth, but was ill informed and the weak minded followed the news trail and died as a result, this will be no different to many other false news trails like focusing on ventilators when ventilators will be needed by few, or focusing on hand sanitiser when soap and water will do

all politicians who try to disseminate information at this time, instead of leaving it to experts, are going to get it wrong, Trump issued some "fake news" it had the ring of truthAre you talking about the hydroxycholroquine?

If the experts didn't specify, why would a politician?

The experts did specify.

I think the experts have said they are looking and testing a number of things for a treatment and vaccine. I see no wholesale selling of any particular treatment on humans have you? A lack of testing though has been on the frontlines of both containment and developing treatments, and it remains the lack of resources and manpower that's the main focus.

Are you talking about the hydroxycholroquine? Yes as a physician administered cure it may be effective but disinfectant will probably kill it too but not if ingested

I'm not following you on this one. You said, "Trump issued some "fake news" it had the ring of truth, but was ill informed and the weak minded followed the news trail and died as a result." In what way was it "fake news"? Weren't you the one who posted here a couple of weeks ago that scientists in Australia were using hydroxychloroquine as a successful treatment for CV? When Trump mentioned it the use of the drug was already fairly widely known. He was hardly the first person to mention it, so in what way was it "fake news"?

I think the dufus was grossely exaggerating the facts to make it look like he knew what he was talking about. He has a way of spinning things to make himself look better. Like the Australian cure for covid-19, yet have no numbers to go with it.

He has a way of spinning things to make himself look better. Yeah. Thank goodness Pelosi, Obama, and HC never did that.

all politicians who try to disseminate information at this time, instead of leaving it to experts, are going to get it wrong, Trump issued some "fake news" it had the ring of truth, but was ill informed and the weak minded followed the news trail and died as a result, this will be no different to many other false news trails like focusing on ventilators when ventilators will be needed by few, or focusing on hand sanitiser when soap and water will do jeeeze one fn moron couple took a dose of fish tank cleaner . This argument is pathetic. If people are going to committ suicide they are going to commit suicide ! Tragic stupidity . Blaming it on Trump is just plain political BS !!!!!!!!

Well, our beloved gov just issued a "shelter in place" order for our county for the next two weeks. We have sort of shot up to 35 cases in just a few days. I guess my wild nighttime parties will just have to wait a couple of weeks.

been living with it for a couple weeks . would've been much worse if I wasn't so "essential " My advice is to find a way to get outside ;soak in the Vitamin D from the sun ; take a walk before the government decided to shut down the recreation spots . Find a way to keep yourself occupied ;hobby ,new learning experience ,take on a delayed project et .

Thanks, Tom. I've got a good bit to do so I think I can stay busy. We'll see at any rate. I stay outside a lot as we live kind of in the country.

Courtesy of Australia

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-australia-ivermectin-antiparasitic-drug-kills-covid19-in-lab/news-story/615c435e56aefc4b704f4fd890bd4c2c

yes we have done it again, and no need to wait

no need to waitThere is actually a great reason to wait. No human studies have yet been done. It's all been done in petri dishes.

There is actually a great reason to wait. No human studies have yet been done. It's all been done in petri dishes.

Great point!

Great point!And once again we agree on something! Don't you think that proves there is hope for America?

Have a great day. Keep safe.

you will all be safe but sick

I intend to be safe but not sick.

I ain't sick nor feel safe, fresh food run this weekend! Somebody get Tom a mask, gloves and hand sanitizer. I'm out and he needs it. Let never forget those indispensables that keep things going as we cringe in the corners. Can't be as easy as they make it look on a daily basis.

Don't you think that proves there is hope for America?

.

abandon hope all you who sail in her

abandon hope all you who sail in her

I doubt that, no matter how bad we screw up.

things are pretty screwed up at the moment, you do know this is caused by open borders and multinationalism?

I think it was caused by nasty habits and careless safeguards in the supply chain.

no tha's just the source, the spreading is something else

Stands to reason the whole country is affected since all our states are interconnected in many ways. The very notion of closing state borders is pretty absurd. Though some think that can be done easily. There is no multinationalism here Clete, your a citizen or visitor. Did you mean diverse? That we are but I doubt it makes a difference.

Stands to reason the whole country is affected since all our states are interconnected in many ways. The very notion of closing state borders is pretty absurd. Though some think that can be done easily. There is no multinationalism here Clete, your a citizen or visitor. Did you mean diverse? That we are but I doubt it makes a difference.

So your multinationals stay at home, they arn't established in China they don't trade with China, pull the other one it plays dixie

You mean Chinese Americans? What about them? Not following your multinational meme. What difference does it make?

Travel has made the difference and unsanitised goods may also make a difference

What does that have to do with multinationals that don't travel anywhere? Whose checking the goods and how?