I bet Trump said " tell Vlad I'll have more flexibilty after the election " .
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/trump-communication-reportedly-center-whistleblower-complaint-n1056196

Tomder55: I just bet there are a ton of dolts out there thinking: "We got Trump this time".....but, they don't have Trump this time, just like they never have had him before with anything else.....all the fake documentation in the "Steele Magnolias" dossier, the Cohen testimony, and so many other bunches of pure crap! Teflon Don survives yet again. And I am not even a Trump supporter but I can see when people try to "pile-on" and I don't like that.

Shouldn't we wait and see what the facts are? Like everything the dufus does this sounds fishy as hell too! Luckily I have Netflix, popcorn and fantasy sports while things get sorted out. No hurry, whether we make the dufus accountable tomorrrow, next year, or any day after that is cool with me. Hope you get to a lifeboat after your Titanic dufus finally sinks Vac, or do you prefer V7?

Talaniman: I will be the first to condemn the POTUS IF they ever find irrefutable evidence that he did anything. You have to provide to him the SAME rights as every other U.S. Citizen, even if you don't like him (you) or you are indifferent to him (me): He is INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN A COURT OF LAW....NOT THE COURT OF PUBLIC OPINION!

He isn't my Titanic....but he may be a battleship....just hope its not the Bismarck!

You can presume his innocence all you want, but the facts will eventually find the light of day. Until then wear a life jacket...you know...just in case.

You can presume his innocence all you want, but the facts will eventually find the light of day. Until then wear a life jacket...you know...just in case.

Expecting a tsunami Tal? seems to me the time for tsunamis have past, just like Meuller and his pseudo investigation. Too much talk, not enough action

Paraclete: I think you are correct: Normally, at least in the last 80+ years or so, the left in the U.S. has always been "smarter" politically and sharper tactically as well as strategically than has been the right....but, with President Trump, whether it be him or the people behind him, the left seems, for lack of a better word, "punch-drunk": they just seemed confused and unable to get any traction against Trump. I am not pulling for one side or the other, I just want the U.S. to continue to progress, but all of these investigations by the left are killing themselves, not Trump: Trump is actually thriving under all this scrutiny and left looks more leaderless and more inept than they ever have in history!

The wheels of justice turn slowly, but they do turn steadily. It's a bit to premature to declare the dufus untouchable, no matter how much snake oil he douses on himself, or the yes men and sycophants he surrounds himself with. It appears to me though the bully will run out of places to hide the truth, or accountability for his own actions.

So if you want to remain skeptics and cheerleaders that's fine by me, and as I sit back and enjoy the show the ending is pretty clear The good guys will eventually win. The dufus ain't a good guy, just so you know.

So if you want to remain skeptics and cheerleaders that's fine by me, and as I sit back and enjoy the show the ending is pretty clear The good guys will eventually win. The dufus ain't a good guy, just so you know.

See your bias is showing, now if Tramp had been a democrat candidate you would be cheering him

Are you kidding me? Maybe I am biased against the dufus, and if he was a democrat I would write in Boo Boo the clown on my ballot or seriously considered the repub running against him.

me thinks thou dost protest too much

You could be right Clete, we should just shut up and let the loonies enjoy themselves while they can.

Trump is beyond Republican or Democrat. He's a Mammonite.

Turns out this big story is an old story about Biden pressuring Ukraine to fire a prosecutor who was investigating Hunter Biden's and Joe's corruption . His corrupt dealings with Ukraine are easy to document. There’s even video of him admitting it. The media will now be forced to actually cover it.

tomder55: Are you joking....you must be! The media WILL NEVER COVER ANYTHING AGAINST THE LEFT: N E V E R!!! The

Media couldn't even summon the courage to admit that Richard Millhouse Nixon nailed the COMMUNIST SPY ALGER HISS 70 years ago! All that happened was that they attacked Nixon incessantly for the next 24 years until Nixon's gutless Republican Congressmen and Senators wimped out on him during the Watergate tragedy.

The Media is in the left's hip pocket and that ain't changing.....but its O.K.: All of the left and ALL of the Media is coming after Trump and Trump is still kicking all of their asses! Trump is like KING KONG!

You know, when you are nonaligned, like I am, this crap is super entertaining!

V7: Do you realize the two parties switched positions during the early '60s?

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/01/28/lbj-great-society-josh-zeitz-book-216538

W.G.: The Civil Rights Act of 1964 WAS A REPUBLICAN LED PLAN! They tried to pass it in 1958 but the Democrats killed it....then, in 1964, the Republicans got enough Democrats to come over and vote for it that it passed....only one Republican Senator voted against it.....IT WASN'T JOHNSON'S PLAN, WASN'T PART OF THE GREAT SOCIETY, AND DAMN SURE WASN'T A DEMOCRAT PLAN!

What is shameful for the Republicans, beside being gutless as they can be, is that they have let the Democrats CO-OPT the Civil Rights Movement! The Republicans FREED THE SLAVES, for GOD's sake and the DEMOCRATS ARE THE PARTY OF THE KLAN! DARNED FACTS! And now the DEMOCRATS ARE THE PARTY OF THE SOCIALISTS!

Look, I was born in the morning, but not THIS MORNING! The Democrats have a vested interest in keeping minorities downtrodden and on the public dole....why? Because they think that will get these poor and mostly uneducated people to vote DEMOCRAT.....Trump is changing all this dynamic: Under Trump, Black Unemployment is lower than it has ever been! Trump doesn't talk all that well but he sure performs well ECONOMICALLY AND FISCALLY! And minorities are starting to take notice....and that scare the hell out of the left.

Those repubs of which you speak are long gone and replaced by the conversion of dems who became repubs The dufus piggy backing on the Obama economic gains and claiming it was just all him falls on deaf ears to the minorities who know better than to trust his word for it, and while you tout those great job numbers they also remember that last hired first fired always applies, and black unemployment is still higher than whites and double in some regions so you want to use stats to convince someone how much you're doing for them?

"White man speak with forked tongue" is the axiom applied here, no matter how the dufus spins his greatness. You would do well to factor that into your rants and give the minorities a lot more credit than to follow the RACIST feeding you BS and plenty of home brewed snake oil.

That's why the dem power structure has minorities and women, and repubs, well they look like you do. Yeah we are taking notice of that FACT!

Talaniman: Candace Owens doesn't look like me....neither does Dr. Ben Carson.....and there are many others.....and there are a bunch of Cuban Americans in South Florida that don't look like me....you know the ones I am talking about: The ones that ran Nancy Pelosi out of town! Republicans are all colors! And, so are Libertarians: The Dems are simply Race baiters.

You still don't have the numbers guy. I mean, do the math. You are aware that Pelosi is back and the dems have the House aren't you?

Talaniman: Not so impressed with those kind of numbers...they are slaves on proverbial "Liberal Plantation" (I know the Repubs use that line but I stole it, too good not to steal)..….Blacks are coming around.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY&fbclid=IwAR2w0SrbEyinEDEnPSkwxMyZBaM6v2HNr-hhPQOQRf3Snr7YDWP1igcAc5U

tomder55: That is all ANYONE needs to see and know...Biden is corrupt!

tomder55: That is all ANYONE needs to see and know...Biden is corrupt!

Hey Vac do you have any politician who isn't corrupt one way or another?

Sorry fellows, that's not even close to the whole story. EVERYBODY and his mama wanted Shokin removed for years for corruption of the Ukrainian legal system. I highly suggest you extend the knowledge base on this matter beyond a minute YouTube clip for background into this. I mean right wing talking points don't minimize the distraction of the dufus lawless antics for his own re election by obstructing yet another investigation into his own corruption.

The issue is the whistleblower and the obligation by law for the DNI to inform the congress fully, based on the IG report regarding his/her veracity and credibility. Sorry wingers, repeating talking points doesn't compare to the issues before us, and you can't ignore those facts.

Biden’s defense is, not I didn’t do it, but “no media outlet gives any credibility to the story.”


So Tal ,it has nothing to do with Hunter Biden's business dealings peddling off of his father's influence ?

Is that illegal? What does THAT have to do with the dufus extorting Ukraine to get dirt on his political foe? I'm not condoning the kids of powerful political figures cashing in on mommy or daddy's position, heck the dufus kids are doing that NOW, aren't they, but let's at least examine all the facts and put things in perspective and not just look away at what our government is allowing the dufus to do and get away with with impunity.

The dufus just replaced a bunch of folks who knew what they were doing with a bunch of folks that do as they are told and Guiliani spilled the beans on the whole thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7eR1e0WE4k

And this confession counts too about the Ukraine affair!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6EHQKL2wdo

which was illegal ? the President using executive privileges' ,or some whistle-blower listening in on the President's conversation with foreign leaders ?(none of any of this is confirmed by anyone as of today) .

So far there has not been too much interest in investigating the emperor's administration encouraging Ukraine to investigate Manafort on behalf of Evita's campaign....that resulted in a leak in Ukraine about cash payments to Manafort ....that resulted in Manafort's dismissal by the Trump campaign. So be it . That is politics in 2019 in a nut shell . If the Dems did not have double standards they would have no standards at all.

Btw ,Michael Atkinson the IGIC is wrong in his interpretation section 3033 of Title 50 "urgent concern"

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/3033

It does NOT apply to a President's negotiations with another foreign leader . It applies ONLY to intelligence officials acting under the authority of the Director of National Intelligence .

You are correct, we don't know the details of what the whistleblowers report was, or HOW he got it, but the IG deemed it credible and urgent, and it's stuck in DNI hands, on direction of the WH, and DOJ, with the threat of prosecution as a leaker after following WB protocols. So we see how it actually shakes out, and see what FACTS are.

I sure ain't believing the WH version of ANYTHING at this point, not even the dirt on opponents.

Biden is acting guilty.....don't know if he did anything but he acts like a man who just got caught doing something he should not have done...doesn't look good for Biden.

Ukranian "Leader" says Trump didn't pressure him for any information....that is the Ukranian talking....pretty strong evidence nothing happened.

Ukraine is a lot "better" country than Russia, right? Its know for being a really good place, full of freedoms and what not....not like Russia, right?

Biden is acting guilty.....don't know if he did anything but he acts like a man who just got caught doing something he should not have done...doesn't look good for Biden.

After a weekend of denials, the dufus finally admitted he talked to the Ukraine about the Biden's. Dufus mouthpiece Rudy, said the State Dept. (Which they deny, and stick to the smear Biden party line when asked about it) greased the wheels of his contacts with the Ukraine government at the highest levels about getting dirt on the Biden's. This is a stark replay of 'Russia if you're listening..." from 2016. Doesn't the dufus look guilty of something? I guess you can ignore that as easy as you do the Mueller Report, and probably didn't bother to read it either, like so many of you dufus believers. That goes against your claim of NOT being a right wing loony dufus sycophant.


Ukranian "Leader" says Trump didn't pressure him for any information....that is the Ukranian talking....pretty strong evidence nothing happened.

What do you expect them to say publicly? Why would they do anything to put itself in the middle of our politics? The must appear NUETRAL in this mess right.


Ukraine is a lot "better" country than Russia, right? Its know for being a really good place, full of freedoms and what not....not like Russia, right?

They want our help AGAINST the Russians, and I doubt they want to screw that up. Would you with Vlad at your doorstep?

Talaniman: Bears don't make good neighbors.....they've been know to break into your house and tear everything asunder!

Exactly my point.

Do you have a bear problem? perhaps you have a bare problem? no, I was wrong it is a Boor problem

Do you have a bear problem? perhaps you have a bare problem? no, I was wrong it is a Boor problem
Bore problem? (This site is warming up with some new blood.)

Bore problem? (This site is warming up with some new blood.)

Don't we wish it were so, Bore, Boar, or Boor, I don't know there is much difference

Paraclete: Yes, I am a bore....ask my wife! Hopefully, I am not a boor!

Paraclete: Yes, I am a bore....ask my wife! Hopefully, I am not a boor!

Only you would know if you are a Boor, I cannot be a judge of such things, but I can be a judge of the content here, and for the most part, Boring!

Maybe things will get a lot more interesting since Pelosi has made the dufus the official subject of an impeachment inquiry, and 211 of 235 dems have come out for impeachment. In addition soon after the announcement yesterday the dufus said he will release the transcripts of his call with the Ukrainian president, and the whistleblower has asked the intel committees in the House and Senate for a hearing.

Looks like it's on full steam ahead.

Talaniman: Well, the transcript was released.....and the Democrat train just ran off the rails! There is nothing there! Just as I thought! I am not at all surprised by this. I expected it. Hopefully, the AG Barr will go after Biden's son and, with any luck at all, Biden himself! Time to put the hooks into these loony left wingers and show them that frivolous actions have consequences: You can't continue to disrespect the POTUS and expect no repercussions....the left must learn that impeding the plans of the POTUS is to impede the pursuit of the well being of the American People and that can no longer be tolerated: Biden and son must be made examples of for all the left to see.

Like the dufus is saying now there is no quid pro quo in his released memo of the phone call, but there doesn't have to be for a crime to be committed. To paraphrase, when the Ukraine president ask for Javelins for defense, the dufus said do me a favor, and he went on to say investigate corruption by the Biden's.

"Do me a favor.." is the new version of "Russia if your listening..."! I won't even add what Rudy has been running around saying but regardless of either of our opinions, IT'S ON!! Expect an impeachment vote soon and we'll just see what happens. Instead of taking the dufus words for fact a simple google search may give you relevant facts about Biden's words and actions back then.

Maybe YOU should read the full texts before you decide the dems are running off the rails. That's not what I'm seeing here and even some repubs are scratching their heads.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

Talaniman: There is nothing here, AGAIN! The "investigation will turn to Biden before its all over with......And, why was Biden's son doing any business in the Ukraine anyway? Was it because he is such a great businessman or is it because he is Biden's son….the answer is obvious!

The Democrats can Impeach all they want, Trump will go nowhere and will remain in the Whitehouse. The Democrats are GUARANTEEING TRUMP'S REELECTION.

Oh, and guess what else: Trump can STOP THIS INVESTIGATION JUST LIKE HE COULD HAVE STOPPED THE MUELLER INVESTIGATION ANY TIME HE WISHES TO DO SO.

The Democrats have nothing and will go down in flames with this: Get the drinks on ice and get ready to enjoy TRUMP'S REELECTION VICTORY PARTY!

For a Libertarian like me, this stuff is wonderful! We don't have a 3rd Party yet, but every time these scandals come along, it makes the likelihood of a 3rd Party more a reality.....and when that happens, real DEMOCRACY will be realized in the U.S.!

Why not read the WH memo they released as I provided instead of ranting about how libertarians will rule the world. Oh that's right, why read when you can rant. Whatever makes you feel good I suppose. There were a lot of business men in Ukraine at that time and in full disclosure my former employer is among them.

Why not read the WH memo they released as I provided instead of ranting about how libertarians will rule the world. Oh that's right, why read when you can rant. Whatever makes you feel good I suppose. There were a lot of business men in Ukraine at that time and in full disclosure my former employer is among them.

Ah, now we see your allegiences

I have no allegience to any country except my own. The Ukraine operation is just one of many across the globe gobbled up by the parent company. A common thing in todays world. Come on Clete, capitalists are everywhere, and they don't care who okay's the money, be it dictator or president. Here, there, or anywhere. Once you understand that, you may get the significance of the whistleblower complaint which is supposed to be released today, and the WH memo of the phone call that I linked, which is full of stuff to beat the dufus about his head.

Yes Vac, I'm having a great time too watching these scandals play out. Actually it's just business as usual. Now stop hogging the popcorn. LOL, I can't even watch my Netflix movie watching the dufus falling all over himself.

And you thought he was invincible and above the law?

I have no allegience to any country except my own. The Ukraine operation is just one of many across the globe gobbled up by the parent company. A common thing in todays world. Come on Clete, capitalists are everywhere, and they don't care who okay's the money, be it dictator or president. Here, there, or anywhere. Once you understand that, you may get the significance of the whistleblower complaint which is supposed to be released today, and the WH memo of the phone call that I linked, which is full of stuff to beat the dufus about his head.

Yes Vac, I'm having a great time too watching these scandals play out. Actually it's just business as usual. Now stop hogging the popcorn. LOL, I can't even watch my Netflix movie watching the dufus falling all over himself.

And you thought he was invincible and above the law?

No I never thought that, but yes BO and his coharts were interferring in Ukraine and no doubt making money out of it. There is nothing worthwhile on Netflex and anything that is happening in your part of the world looks like the plot of one of those B grade movies

That is a matter of perspective, your own bias notwithstanding (or is that snark?), but one must prioritize which corruption to pursue and the current one is before us, and anything behind us was never prioritized when the dufus and his sycophants were in full power in government, though they have been loud about it, they brought no actions. They still can of course, if they were not so occupied with defending their own wrong doing.

ummm ...the truth is that NOBODY in the swamp wants anyone to shine the light on this issue of nepotism and family getting rich on a connection with an elected leader .

I find that to be very true over the years and some are much more discreet than others, but it's a bit troubling that the subjects of this whistleblowers allegations was the first to be consulted about it, and a delay contrary to the law was an outcome of that heads up, or "guidance" in this matter. I won't go as far to disparage Mr. Mcguire, but it's a deep concern that should be scrutinized. He has testified many times this morning it's not his job to judge what the allegations are, but clearly he didn't turn those allegations over to the congress in the specified time as REQUIRED by the LAW.

That is the purpose of the law as it clearly states the process, which was obviously not followed. At least that's my take on it, and as Lewandowski pointed out and proved, it's not illegal to lie to the public, or the press, and therein lies a real problem at the heart of this whole political mess, steeped in deep corruption.

the big bombshell from the whistle blower report is that Trump covered up a transcript that he released to the public yesterday.

I already pointed out the judgment of NOT turning it over to Congress was the correct one because the President is not an employee of DNI and his conversations with a foreign leader are NOT subject to the 50 U.S. Code  3033(sec 5 g ) definition of "urgent concern" . The IG thought it was and Maguire as DNI did not .

Section 3033 does not apply to a president’s negotiations with or commitments to foreign powers. The statute ONLY applies to intelligence activities by officials employed under the DNI direction . So even if the whistle blower had an “urgent concern” there was no requirement under the law to inform Congress.

waiting for the press to start the reporting about Biden and Kerry's son in China . That is where the real money was happening . Love it that their business partner was James Bulger from the Whitey Bulger crime family and son of Massachusetts state senator Billy Bulger.

love it that Pathfinder Adam Schiff is going to be the face of the Dem party going into th elections . He swore for months that he had the proof that Trump colluded with Russia to steal the election. He still hasn't come forward even after the Mueller report. Now he's doing comedy parody and trying to make it sound like that was the real words of the transcript . He completely fabricated quotes during his opening comments . He's a better face of the party than that toad Nadler .

My reading of the statute does NOT prohibit the carrying out of the law and there are no stated exceptions to that law. Taking into account the acting DNI with only months on the job may well want to consult a legal expert afforded him. My understanding the he got no guidelines from DOJ to NOT obey the law. Maybe we have a loophole that needs closing if indeed there are exceptions to the law. It's a moot point actually since the goods are out there for all to see, which is shockingly bad for the dufus, and that's just the stuff he released. The actual WB allegations are just more fuel to the fire, and unlike the muddle over the Mueller report, a lot easier to read and understand. Have you read those documents?

You have to be a REAL dufus to dodge a bullet, then do the same thing again as president. He may not be the only one tarnished badly on this one.

love it that Pathfinder Adam Schiff is going to be the face of the Dem party going into th elections . He swore for months that he had the proof that Trump colluded with Russia to steal the election. He still hasn't come forward even after the Mueller report. Now he's doing comedy parody and trying to make it sound like that was the real words of the transcript . He completely fabricated quotes during his opening comments . He's a better face of the party than that toad Nadler .

Lol, he did exaggerate taking a page from the dufus but he was correct in the times the prez pressed Zelenski, and how. Repubs were quick to jump on that, but defended McGuire and got their dem witch hunt point across as usual.


waiting for the press to start the reporting about Biden and Kerry's son in China . That is where the real money was happening . Love it that their business partner was James Bulger from the Whitey Bulger crime family and son of Massachusetts state senator Billy Bulger.

Dumb incompetent repubs blew their shot at it, as they did with HC, and Obama if they actually had anything but distracting talking points and bad mouthing. I imagine though the dufus is fit to be tied looking for somebody's blood!

I imagine though the dufus is fit to be tied looking for somebody's blood!


Just heard an audio by Trump suggesting whistleblowers be executed. Truthful hyperbole. I think he's sending a message.

Athos: They execute people for treason.....this "whistleblower" probably broke the law by listening in on the POTUS......much of this comes down to "how" the "whistleblower" obtained the information......Again, NOTHING HERE, AGAIN! Just like the Russia Investigation "Nothing Burger".....We are talking about the POTUS, not some underling, in all these accusations: You can't get to the POTUS! When in the name of hell is the going to get that through their thick skulls. The POTUS is near superhuman compared to anyone walking around the country in terms of what he CAN and CAN NOT do.....All this crap of quoting this legal document # and that legal precedent DOES NOT APPLY TO THE POTUS!

Sorry to break the left's heart but you lose to TRUMP....AGAIN!

Forget passing the popcorn, pass the doob! I want what you're smoking! On second thought pass the popcorn because I see on helluva case of the munchies in your future. Do libertarians heads explode?

Talaniman: YOU ARE TOO MUCH!!! :)

If you are having as much fun all of with this as I am, you don't need to smoke or take anything! The natural high is plenty! But good popcorn, with butter, of course, does sound awfully good right about now!

Athos: They execute people for treason.

Yes, I know. That's exactly why Trump threatened whistleblowers with it. His sycophants will say he was only kidding, but we know better, don't we?


....this "whistleblower" probably broke the law by listening in on the POTUS

If you had been paying attention, you would know the whistleblower was not listening in. The information he had was provided by people in the room when Trump made the call. You know, the ones Trump wants to execute. The IG confirmed the credibility of the whistleblower.


Just like the Russia Investigation "Nothing Burger"

Again, you constantly show your ignorance. The report by Mueller listed at least ten crimes of obstruction of justice. The reason Mueller didn't indict was because AG Barr had declared Trump immune from prosecution and any criminal investigation. Is that something you agree with? Do you understand how it flies in the face of the Constitution and 250 years of jurisprudence?


You can't get to the POTUS!

Of course, you can. It's called impeachment.


The POTUS is near superhuman compared to anyone walking around the country in terms of what he CAN and CAN NOT do

Sadly, Trump would love that, and he is supported in that by the likes of you. Do you really want a dictator? Not to worry, tho. Today Trump shot himself in the foot by stupidly releasing the text of his phone call where he told the president of a foreign power to get dirt on his political opponent. Prima facie evidence of a High Crime.


.....All this crap of quoting this legal document # and that legal precedent DOES NOT APPLY TO THE POTUS!

So you believe Trump is above the law. Do you know that NO MAN is above the law? Didn't you learn that in elementary school? Do you mean documents like the Constitution don't apply to Trump? Are you aware that this nation renounced Kings centuries ago?

V7 - why do you keep digging your hole deeper? If you just did a little self-education, you wouldn't come across as such a fool.

So far the dems swung and missed on both Kavanaugh and collusion. Now they are facing strike three with this silly charge. Even the Ukrainian pres has stated that nothing improper happened on the phone call.

Schiff's performance yesterday (his "parody") was a disgrace, and that's not to mention his having to go with plan B and allege that the phone conversation was something resembling a mafia shakedown. It was all, he said, a coded conversation that only the really smart people like him could discern. And to make matters worse, it is pretty clear that the two genuine lawbreakers have been HC and Biden. If Biden was the great hope of the dem party, then that hope is going down the drain.

I was in hopes that someone reasonable might appear as an alternative to Trump. Instead we have Biden, Sanders, and Warren, so my hope is fading fast. Where is John Kennedy when he is really needed?

Athos: Come on! You know Trump will not kill the whistleblower....its just frustration with being infested with Obama era spies within the ranks that he is expressing himself this way.

Yes, the whistleblower is talking 2nd and 3rd hand information: INADMISSABLE IN ANY COURT! Can you imagine: I didn't witness a murder but I know someone who did and they said "____"...this doesn't work, at all! And the ones who were in the room can't talk about any of it because of Executive Privilege clauses: DEMOS HAVE ZILTCH!

You can IMPEACH ALL YOU WANT! Trump stays in office: The Congress is a toothless dog! The Senate won't go along with any of this crap, Trump will remain in office: Bill Clinton WAS CONVICTED OF PERJURY AND IMPEACHED AND STAYED IN OFFICE! You are delusional about forcing Trump out....dreaming! And, guess what, once Clinton was Impeached, his popularity increased...AND SO WILL TRUMP'S: CAN YOU SAY "ANOTHER FOUR YEARS"? Start practicing now.

The little prima donna Adam Schiff is not the most cerebral individual: Right now, he has done nothing for his District because he has been running down rabbit holes in search of Trump: He is a complete loser!

Trump is not above the law....but, as POTUS, he is no longer a simple citizen, he is Commander In Chief, and that changes everything.

You keep wanting to apply conventional laws to the POTUS....THIS POTUS! The left had no interests and demonstrated no interests in implementing laws when Clinton or Obama were in Office....Why the double standard? When laws are applied unequally, they become tools of restraint and constraint. Of course, I don't expect you to respond about the double standard of law applicability between POTUS administrations but you know its true. When Obama flew $1.7 billon to Iran in the middle of the night, he didn't consult congress or anyone else....didn't hear a peep about law breaking then...that's just one example from a man who said that the U.S. Constitution was "a piece of paper"....but that's O.K. because he was Barack HUSSEIN Obama and not Donald Trump.

As a Libertarian, I want LAWS IMPOSED WITH EQUALITY.....The left just doesn't get that concept. With the upcoming changes to the SCOTUS, they are going to get a dose of the medicine they have been trying to dish out: The Right will use the Courts to clear hurdles and contain the left like never before....and you know what? YOU ASKED FOR IT by being so biased that you no longer even try to hide it.....extreme arrogance on the left.

All this turmoil serves only to help build the Libertarian cause so that one day there will be THREE PARTIES instead of the MONOPOLY ON POWER THAT THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICAN HAVE NOW! We are waiting in the wings! The left and the Right have conspired for years to shut down every attempt to bring a Third Party into play: They want the power all to themselves, they don't want change and helping the people and improving the people's lot is the furthest thing from their mind...its a charade!.....DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICS ARE OF THE SAME ILK!

Yes, the whistleblower is talking 2nd and 3rd hand information: INADMISSABLE IN ANY COURT! Can you imagine: I didn't witness a murder but I know someone who did and they said "____"...this doesn't work, at all! And the ones who were in the room can't talk about any of it because of Executive Privilege clauses: DEMOS HAVE ZILTCH!

Pretty well sums it up.

So we can just IGNORE the FACT that the dufus released a memo of his call with Zelenskyy where we wanted an investigation into his political opponent, and was with holding duly authorized military assistance unless he agreed? I guess it doesn't bother you that that in itself is illegal does it? Or it's the best confession you can get? Or the whistle blowers accont was investigated and found CREDIBLE and urgent or that everything alleged really did happen?

Funny how you holler evidence, and then ignore it, but MORE to come for sure. You should wait for the eyewitness testimony. What you didn't know there are eyewitnesses? There are 6. Should have read the IG report, the dufus memo, the WB allegations. LOL, repubs are claiming the Ukraine interfered in the 2016 elections and framed Russia!

Keep listening to the lying, cheating, dufus bully. I can't wait to see heads explode over the EVIDENCE of the cover up he and his sycophants perpetrated, or tried to, and no doubt the witness intimidation coming. Just as a matter of law, there can be NO executive privilege to cover up a CRIME, or wrong doing by the executive, and we have the crime as outlined in his own released memo.

Talaniman: GET THE GOODS if you want Trump out, that is all I'm saying: You have to nail him to the cross if he is to be removed.....and it just won't be easy to do, especially with hearsay testimony. I think Capital Punishment is appropriate but I don't support killing a man without airtight evidence EVEN IF I intuitively know he is guilty......And this is the POTUS and that fact makes it all the more difficult....you have to have evidence that supports the evidence! It is tough. Get the goods and yo will see a ton of people fall in behind removing Trump from office: Just not liking him isn't enough and definitely won't get the job done.

where we wanted an investigation into his political opponent, and was with holding duly authorized military assistance unless he agreed?

Where did he say he would withhold military assistance unless there was an agreement to investigate Biden? I read the transcript but I've been known to miss things.

I can agree with going through the process and by law he is as entitled to the same due process as every body else. I think that has started.

Talaniman: Well, if it is started, will you please stop hogging all the popcorn! This should be exciting!

People with eigineering back grounds do tend to enjoy and appreciate the step by step building process, more than others I think, and just between you and me, I love taking stuff apart, and finding out why it doesn't work right, and making it work the way its supposed to. When I started in maintenance playing with the big boy toys and tools was nasty, and nice.

What a rush!!

MUNCH MUNCH, keep the toothpicks handy!

Where did he say he would withhold military assistance unless there was an agreement to investigate Biden? I read the transcript but I've been known to miss things.

He didn't say he would, he did withhold the funds after the congress appropriated it through the proper channels. When he finally called and Zelenskyy said he needed javelin (anti tank missles) he asked for a favor and told him to get with Rudy, and the attorney general to investigate Biden, his leading political opponent. He mentions this investigation numerous times and references Rudy and the AG often. This against the 5 year old occupation of his country by Russia. In addition the dufus wants a server he thinks the Ukraine has as evidence that Russia didn't hack and meddle in the 2016 election.

Be aware there are official channels and processes in place to investigate an American and his oversees conduct, of which the dufus blatantly bypasses and takes the illegal path of doing it himself and as Zelenskyy said publicly, he wants NO INVOLVEMENT in the American election process. It is against the law to solicit the aid of a foreign country to help in the election, which the dufus has clearly done, and corroborated by the IG, and verified the WB complaint, thus we have dems moving to the impeachment process more aggressively and repubs shaking in their boots.

Want to share the popcorn with me and Vac as we enjoy the show?

Talaniman: My folks wanted me to become a lawyer.....but I thought about it and decided to do something honest and I became an Engineer, instead......I know you know what I am talking about.

Talaniman: My folks wanted me to become a lawyer.....but I thought about it and decided to do something honest and I became an Engineer, instead......I know you know what I am talking about.
Lawyers aren't honest? Whatcha talkin' about, Willis?!

He didn't say he would, he did withhold the funds after the congress appropriated it through the proper channels. When he finally called and Zelenskyy said he needed javelin (anti tank missles) he asked for a favor and told him to get with Rudy, and the attorney general to investigate Biden, his leading political opponent.

OK. So he didn't say it.

I started in law, and poly science way back in the 70's, but that steel mill money as I moved up the pecking order from labor to production sort of changed things. Those were the days, but getting into maintenance required schooling along with working so another change. Is your plant ISO compliant? Technology and computers changed everything for steel production. I would imagine you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about.

OK. So he didn't say it.

His implications were quite clear though, and Zelenskyy did agree to an investigation, even if that was done years ago by the replacement for Shokin, the Russian puppet the whole world wanted replaced. NBC interviewed the guy this morning and he said the Bidens broke no laws but welcomed Americans to see that for themselves but without the extortion tactics.

He said he already told Rudy that.

Do me a favor, and I hate for something bad to happen to your country are implicit threats to a country at war. You do know that Russia invaded Crimea, and occupy eastern Ukraine don't you?

Implications? Well, it sounded that way to you, but there is no real evidence for it. Sure sounds like strike three.

Dude, criminals don't talk in exact language, they imply their meanings very carefully. For example the Ukraine president talked of missiles and the president talks of favors. That's implying you get weapons we get dirt. Later in the texts Zelenskyy tells the dufus what he wants to hear, agreeing to investigate the matter and talk to Rudy and Barr.

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=6429015-Trump-Ukraine-Transcript

True only Ben Sasse of Nebraska and Mitt Romney of Utah are the only senators to express concern publicly so far, but it's only been a few days, but no less than Chris Wallace of Fox News is weighing in.

https://theweek.com/speedreads/868277/fox-news-chris-wallace-calls-trump-defenders-astonishing-deeply-misleading-whistleblower-spin

Sec. of State Pompeo has been subpoenaed. that should be good to find out who vetted and assigned Rudy to go to Ukraine. No doubt Rudy will be next. We'll see if there is evidence, and where it leads, JL.

Dude, criminals don't talk in exact language, they imply their meanings very carefully.


You mean like when Mr. Obama told the Russian ambassador that he would have more "flexibility" once the election was over with?


Sec. of State Pompeo has been subpoenaed. that should be good to find out who vetted and assigned Rudy to go to Ukraine. No doubt Rudy will be next. We'll see if there is evidence, and where it leads, JL.

Well, why not? I mean that strategy has worked so well the past couple of years. "Let's bring in Dr. Ford and see where it leads." Strike one. "Let's bring in Mueller and see where it leads on collusion." Strike two. At some point, a democrat actually needs to get a hit. My bet is on the pitcher on this one.

After hearing the disgraceful hit job Schiff did yesterday and then trying to characterize it as a harmless "parody", it really makes me glad I'm not a democrat. That made Trump's phone transcript seem tame in comparison. It lends the entire shameful affair an odor of desperation.

You mean like when Mr. Obama told the Russian ambassador that he would have more "flexibility" once the election was over with?

Well that was a nothing burger, either Obama was good or repubs were bad but noisy. Noisy


Well, why not? I mean that strategy has worked so well the past couple of years. "Let's bring in Dr. Ford and see where it leads." Strike one. "Let's bring in Mueller and see where it leads on collusion." Strike two. At some point, a democrat actually needs to get a hit. My bet is on the pitcher on this one.


I think the public will understand this situation a lot easier than they can understand the 400 page Mueller Report.


After hearing the disgraceful hit job Schiff did yesterday and then trying to characterize it as a harmless "parody", it really makes me glad I'm not a democrat. That made Trump's phone transcript seem tame in comparison. It lends the entire shameful affair an odor of desperation.

Betting your dufus is a lot more desperate than Schiff is. Take your corners and let's get this thing on!

PS

Repubs and the dufus have been hollering no collusion an awful long time, but this sure looks like collusion to me!

Talaniman: Yes, a lot has changed in 32 years.....but the core of the process hasn't changed and will not, same as with Steel production.....Yes, all the production facilities are ISO compliant, too......The production side is always a bit more lucrative if you are willing to endure the daily diet of crisis.

Funny how your story parallels mine: I was going to go back to school and get graduate degree (Masters and possibly, even, Doctorate) but the money flow started to come and then the women flow started to come and I lost the zest to go back for more after the first four years.

So weird how you learn so much so fast when you are younger (early 20's to early 40's) and then it becomes a bit more difficult.....Wife and kids put my focus back where it should be, on the straight and narrow, the way its supposed to be....I cherish these times.

I have let God take hold of the steering wheel now....I will keep on doing what I am doing but God is firmly in control of my life.....and, I can tell you with all honesty, that is A-O.K. by me!

Well that was a nothing burger,

With you, anything that happened to HC or Mr. Obama was a "nothing burger". It is your basic approach that seems to be completely linked to political beliefs rather than to ethics. The truth is, Obama and Trump are just two peas in the same pod.

As Trump was rising in the polls in 2016 ,the emperors' White House invited Ukraine’s top prosecutors to Washington to discuss" fighting corruption in the country."
The meeting turned out to be more of a pretext for them to pressure Ukraine’s prosecutors to drop an investigation into the Burisma Holdings gas company that employed Hunter Biden and to look for new evidence in a case against Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort that the FBI had dropped in 2014 .Two top Ukrainian officials , including member of Parliament Serhiy Leshchenko ,released evidence to the American media, smearing Manafort. The release of the evidence forced Manafort to step down as Trump’s top campaign adviser. A Ukrainian court concluded that the release of the evidence amounted to an unlawful intervention in the U.S. election by the government of Ukraine . This happened the same time that Biden was threatening withholding $1 billion in crucial US aide if Ukraine's President Poroshenko did not drop the investigation of Burisima ;and demanded that the prosecutor be fired .

isn't it a coincidence that the form used to report "urgent concern " to the ICIG was revised in August 2019 right before the whistle blower's complaint was filed ?

https://www.dni.gov/files/ICIG/Documents/Hotline/Urgent%20Concern%20Disclosure%20Form.pdf


The revisions no longer requires whistleblowers have first hand knowledge of the alleged wrongdoing that they are reporting and
allows them to file whistle blower complaints even if they have no direct knowledge of underlying evidence ,and only heard about the alleged wrong doing from others.The whistle blower in the complaint against Trump admits he/she got the information from 2nd hand sources .
“I was not a direct witness to most of the events”..... “I have received information from multiple U.S. Government officials,” …..
“officials have informed me,”.....
“officials with direct knowledge of the call informed me,”.....
“the White House officials who told me this information,”....etc .
The complainant also cites news articles as proof of many of the allegations. What a joke!



When do I think the revisions to the form was made ? Could it be just prior to
Sue Gordon of CIA resigning from DNI on August 8 after being passed over by Trump for promotion ????


also Dan Coats left the CIA at the end of July effective August 15 . The timing of the whistle blower complaint is quite a coincidence.


Schmuck Shumer warned the President early in his administration that the US Intelligence Agencies have "six ways from Sunday " to get back at anyone who takes them on.

Athos: Come on! You know Trump will not kill the whistleblower....its just frustration with being infested with Obama era spies within the ranks that he is expressing himself this way.

"Infested with Obama era spies"? Where do you get this stuff from?

This is also to JL who commended your take on this
Yes, the whistleblower is talking 2nd and 3rd hand information: INADMISSABLE IN ANY COURT! Can you imagine: I didn't witness a murder but I know someone who did and they said "____"...this doesn't work, at all! And the ones who were in the room can't talk about any of it because of Executive Privilege clauses: DEMOS HAVE ZILTCH!

Calm down V7 and think about what you said. "INADMISSABLE IN ANY COURT", you wrote. No one's in a court. Look at it this way. An anonymous caller calls the police and says he knows who killed Susie Smith. The policeman does not go to court - HE INVESTIGATES WHAT THE CALLER SAID. Pretty simple, nes't pas?


You can IMPEACH ALL YOU WANT! Trump stays in office: The Congress is a toothless dog! The Senate won't go along with any of this crap, Trump will remain in office: Bill Clinton WAS CONVICTED OF PERJURY AND IMPEACHED AND STAYED IN OFFICE! You are delusional about forcing Trump out....dreaming! And, guess what, once Clinton was Impeached, his popularity increased...AND SO WILL TRUMP'S: CAN YOU SAY "ANOTHER FOUR YEARS"? Start practicing now.


That's even more mindless than usual. Or ranting, maybe I should say. What has Clinton got to do with anything. He was charged by the Republicans who invaded his private sex life. Trump is charged with soliciting a foreign agent with getting dirt on a political opponent of Trump. WORLDS OF DIFFERENCE!!!


Trump is not above the law....but, as POTUS, he is no longer a simple citizen, he is Commander In Chief, and that changes everything.

HE IS NOT ABOVE THE LAW. HIS C-IN-C CHANGES NOTHING!!!!!!! CAN YOU READ THE CONSTITUTION? I DON'T THINK SO. AT LEAST YOU GIVE NO EVIDENCE OF BEING ABLE TO.


You keep wanting to apply conventional laws to the POTUS

Dear God! There is no conventional law! There is one law for everybody. Your ignorance of basic Americanism is truly scary. You would find a dictatorship more to your liking. You're an excellent argument for testing people on their knowledge before they vote.


The left had no interests and demonstrated no interests in implementing laws when Clinton or Obama were in Office

What in God's name are you talking about?


When Obama flew $1.7 billon to Iran in the middle of the night, he didn't consult congress or anyone else....

He wasn't required to. Here's another falsehood originating in the Trump camp that you are abyssymally ignorant of.


because he was Barack HUSSEIN Obama and not Donald Trump.

Interesting emphasis for someone who claims not to be a religious bigot.


As a Libertarian, I want LAWS IMPOSED WITH EQUALITY.

Yeah, except for the Commander-in-Chief.


....The left just doesn't get that concept.

It's YOU who doesn't get that concept as you have so clearly demonstrated in this very post.


With the upcoming changes to the SCOTUS, they are going to get a dose of the medicine they have been trying to dish out: The Right will use the Courts to clear hurdles and contain the left like never before

SCOTUS is charged with administering JUSTICE. But you don't have the slightest idea what that means. To you, it's simply about clearing our your political rivals.


All this turmoil serves only to help build the Libertarian cause so that one day there will be THREE PARTIES instead of the MONOPOLY ON POWER THAT THE DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICAN HAVE NOW! We are waiting in the wings! The left and the Right have conspired for years to shut down every attempt to bring a Third Party into play: They want the power all to themselves, they don't want change and helping the people and improving the people's lot is the furthest thing from their mind...its a charade!.....DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICS ARE OF THE SAME ILK!

Rave on, lunatic!

V7 - Unless you show a little more intelligence and knowledge of current affairs in your posts, I can't guarantee answering them anymore. It takes too long to type and format answers for someone who doesn't exhibit a willingness to improve. I recognize you have achieved SOME improvement but I wish you would do more of it BEFORE you post. I'm coming to the conclusion that it may not be necessary to correct your errors since readers here are able to see that you are basically a troll for Trump - perhaps unwillingly, but true.

With you, anything that happened to HC or Mr. Obama was a "nothing burger". It is your basic approach that seems to be completely linked to political beliefs rather than to ethics. The truth is, Obama and Trump are just two peas in the same pod.

Or the right wing noise machine and repubs in government are truly incompetent to both govern and execute the laws of the land. You cannot argue with the outcomes and it appears the corruption you charge the left with is well beyond your ability to stop or deal with effectively when given the levers of power to do so. Case in point are the decades and numerous investigations that failed to bear the desired fruit you wanted, HC and Obama paying for the crimes you charged.

Now granted dems and the left may well prove to be as incompetent and feckless as repubs, but in fact, it is our turn to try, and without the levers of power you have enjoyed during the dufus administration. Granted the country is suffering muddling through these eternal conflicts and much goes undone while the two parties try to out do each other, an unfortunate effect of divided government, which sadly has degenerated into an ugly stinking pile of a crappy mess. Not sure I have a solution except obviously it's time to flush the toilet and seek a compromise to keep it flushed so we can effectively and efficiently handle our business.

Until such a time we should just dump the dufus and his corrupt, lying cheating bully ways.

When speaking of republican incompetence, I suppose you mean the record low unemployment figures which have been around for a year or two now? Numbers considerably lower than Mr. Obama was able to come up with in EIGHT years?

As to investigations, when you get strike three on this one, where will you go next?

The Dems think this is a win win. They run an impeachment scam right up to the election and they also take down Quid Pro Joe the only sane candidate they have (besides Marianne Williamson) .

The Dems think this is a win win. They run an impeachment scam right up to the election and they also take down Quid Pro Joe the only sane candidate they have (besides Marianne Williamson) .

Joe is now history if he wasn't already, the crap will stick, but Pocahontas is still there and might make the better candidate

When speaking of republican incompetence, I suppose you mean the record low unemployment figures which have been around for a year or two now? Numbers considerably lower than Mr. Obama was able to come up with in EIGHT years?

As to investigations, when you get strike three on this one, where will you go next?

Obama left him a great foundation to enjoy, yet the ungrateful dufus and you right wing loonies claim complete credit for the sun shining on your a$$, and completely ignoring the true numbers, which was 4.8% when Obama left office. Do the math and tell me what the dufus has done since them. So yes your considerately lower rates are an exaggeration of the truth just like everything else that comes out of this lying cheating dufus bully.

I don't know the outcome of all this, but the goal is dump the dufus and rid the government of his sycophants. We'll just have to do the work and see what comes of it. Hope we do better than repubs did with all their investigations.

Do the math and tell me what the dufus has done since them.

OK. Obama's best was 4.8%. Trump's best is 3.7%. So what has Trump done? In less than two years he has set records for low unemployment which Obama could not do in eight years. Is that what you were referring to?


the goal is dump the dufus and rid the government of his sycophants.

Yep. Justice and ethics have nothing to do with it. I'm glad you've finally come clean on that. TDS at work and in broad daylight.

Obama bailed out GM who then turns around and closes 5 American plants. Trump stands up for the displaced American workers. What a strange twist.

“General Motors CEO Mary Barra might be the most unpopular CEO in the United States right now after GM announced it is slashing up to 15,000 jobs and closing up to five plants in North America.

Barra has been shredded from all sides for the decision, including from President Donald Trump.

‘Very disappointed with General Motors and their CEO, Mary Barra, for closing plants in Ohio, Michigan and Maryland. Nothing being closed in Mexico & China. The U.S. saved General Motors, and this is the THANKS we get! We are now looking at cutting all @GMsubsidies, including… for electric cars. General Motors made a big China bet years ago when they built plants there (and in Mexico) – don’t think that bet is going to pay off. I am here to protect America’s Workers!’

http://labor411.org/411-blog/gm-manages-to-find-22-million-to-pay-ceo-as-it-closes-5-plants-and-lays-off-15000-workers/?fbclid=IwAR0qQHPfL19YBkqRik4OJq1Oz6WSb2Ya1Jt5677F Rj14-Lm8-nebltfY-_U

Attention all labor union workers. Vote republican!!

OK. Obama's best was 4.8%. Trump's best is 3.7%. So what has Trump done? In less than two years he has set records for low unemployment which Obama could not do in eight years. Is that what you were referring to?



Yep. Justice and ethics have nothing to do with it. I'm glad you've finally come clean on that. TDS at work and in broad daylight.

Heck guy Obama put you so close to the record there was nothing to do but set a record. As far as justice and ethics, you obviously know nothing about either.


Obama bailed out GM who then turns around and closes 5 American plants. Trump stands up for the displaced American workers. What a strange twist.

“General Motors CEO Mary Barra might be the most unpopular CEO in the United States right now after GM announced it is slashing up to 15,000 jobs and closing up to five plants in North America.

Barra has been shredded from all sides for the decision, including from President Donald Trump.

‘Very disappointed with General Motors and their CEO, Mary Barra, for closing plants in Ohio, Michigan and Maryland. Nothing being closed in Mexico & China. The U.S. saved General Motors, and this is the THANKS we get! We are now looking at cutting all @GMsubsidies, including… for electric cars. General Motors made a big China bet years ago when they built plants there (and in Mexico) – don’t think that bet is going to pay off. I am here to protect America’s Workers!’

http://labor411.org/411-blog/gm-manages-to-find-22-million-to-pay-ceo-as-it-closes-5-plants-and-lays-off-15000-workers/?fbclid=IwAR0qQHPfL19YBkqRik4OJq1Oz6WSb2Ya1Jt5677F Rj14-Lm8-nebltfY-_U

Attention all labor union workers. Vote republican!!

And get more of the same plant closings and lay offs because the dufus and repubs have no clue of how to stop either one. Vote republicans OUT!! All they can do is take credit for another's work, and stick their name on it.

Joe is now history if he wasn't already, the crap will stick, but Pocahontas is still there and might make the better candidate
You realize that Dem backers on Wall Street will back out of any support they would give the Dem candidate if she is the nominee.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/09/26/wall-street-democratic-donors-may-back-trump-if-warren-is-nominated.html


Also her dirty little secret (besides her fraud to get her academic credentials ) was that until 1996 ;when she changed her registration and before she went completely insane ,she was at very least a centrist if not conservative Republican. She even used to publish as someone far removed from her socialism of today . As late as 2003 she wrote 'The Two Income Trap ' In it she flatly rejected a
“quasi-socialist safety net "
In the book she argued that a single income with the mom staying home to raise the kids was a more financially stable arrangement than a two income family . Anyway if that Elizabeth Warren was running instead of the loony crusader against the capital markets ,I could support her. But a President Warren will do more damage to the economy of the US than the emperor could've dreamed of .

Until 2015 the dufus was a democrat so I suppose the left should be grateful he chose to infiltrate and run coup on the repubs .Can't blame him since the right was itching for a figure head and the dufus filled the bill with his theatrics, so of course he wants to get paid. I don't think he would fare as well against Bernie and Hillary in a primary, but repubs gobbled his act up like hungry wolves, and given the competition, not surprising.

Is the right wing noise machine strong enough to keep him around and can he keep his sycophants in line against the Blue movement? Stay tuned. Warren has plans, but the numbers are really disturbing, SO GO JOE GO!!

Until 2015 the dufus was a democrat he still is and if you did not hate him so much you would see the issues you have in common with him. As a example ,his trade policies could come right out of the Bernie Sanders playbook .His policies about Social Security are no different than Evita's were . He doesn't have a social conservative bone in his body. He wants to spend a $trillion on infrastructure ...a very liberal idea. He was in favor of suspending the debt ceiling ...another Democrat dream .

You misjudge me Tomder, I don't hate the dufus, I hate what he does, says, and how he conducts himself and governs. He has implemented or pushed for no policy I could agree with, instead chosing to feed the right red meat, and keeping his sucophants in line for whatever he does for fear of primary retaliation the cowards.

All my repub heroes are GONE. I make no bones about wanting him gone too! No I don't hate the guy, when he was a dem, he was still a lying cheating dufus bully. I still wouldn't have voted for him if he won the dem nomination, and if he won under the dem banner, I would still want him GONE!

Looked into the whistle blower rule changes and it does appear changes were recently made, but that's as far as I can go. Who and why remains unknown for now.

Just don't get why everyone wants to return to the "GOOD OLD DAYS" before Trump took Office: I don't see what was so good about the last 40 some years.....Why is the status quo looked at so lovingly? You had Democrats and Republican sharing the wealth and running rough-shod over anyone and everyone: DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS RUN A MONOPOLY OF POWER IN THE U.S.....I guess Trump kind of veered outside the Establishment's Defined Path Of Behavior as the President because he isn't hard left or hard Right, and that just pisses everyone off.

Why in the world is everyone just O.K. with the same old same old all the damn time in politics/government? WHERE IN THE HELL IS YOUR NATURAL CURIOSITY? Lack of curiosity signifies a lack of motivation and intelligence: I agree the whole of society has been dumbed-down. Doesn't anyone want to see someone BESIDES DEMOS and REPUBS behind the wheel?

Doesn't anyone want to see someone BESIDES DEMOS and REPUBS behind the wheel?

I would prefer to make the wheel much smaller and the power of politicians much smaller, especially with the feds. I'd be happy if they just had enough sense to balance the budget.

Just don't get why everyone wants to return to the "GOOD OLD DAYS" before Trump took Office: I don't see what was so good about the last 40 some years.....Why is the status quo looked at so lovingly? You had Democrats and Republican sharing the wealth and running rough-shod over anyone and everyone: DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS RUN A MONOPOLY OF POWER IN THE U.S.....I guess Trump kind of veered outside the Establishment's Defined Path Of Behavior as the President because he isn't hard left or hard Right, and that just pisses everyone off.

Why in the world is everyone just O.K. with the same old same old all the damn time in politics/government? WHERE IN THE HELL IS YOUR NATURAL CURIOSITY? Lack of curiosity signifies a lack of motivation and intelligence: I agree the whole of society has been dumbed-down. Doesn't anyone want to see someone BESIDES DEMOS and REPUBS behind the wheel?

You know the rules. State your case and see if you get the votes. From where I sit the status quo looks better than what we have now, or where we're headed. I have no idea if libertarians can govern better, and lets just face the facts, ain't enough to find out.

I would prefer to make the wheel much smaller and the power of politicians much smaller, especially with the feds. I'd be happy if they just had enough sense to balance the budget.

Yeah right while I can appreciate a balanced budget, I know where you draw the lines of what not to spend money on. The military ain't one of 'em, as in the Clinton balanced budget, so how would you get there? I mean you want a balanced budget but your state has nothing to balance. You actually take from states that makes money so shouldn't your state live within it's means as an example of balancing the budget?

Oh wait, you hate the Clintons the last ones to balance the budget, no wars helped a lot too!

I have and idea: Stop paying out debt to the ChiComs…..break their economy while empowering our own....look them dead in the eye and tell them to go to hell. At some point, we have to get off the merry-go-round because it never stops.

Yeah right while I can appreciate a balanced budget, I know where you draw the lines of what not to spend money on. The military ain't one of 'em, as in the Clinton balanced budget, so how would you get there?

I would be all for cutting defense spending. I would suggest we cut all spending by two percent per year until the budget is balanced.

I would be all for cutting defense spending. I would suggest we cut all spending by two percent per year until the budget is balanced.

So is that 2% of GDP or just 2% of an inflated budget of more than 4% of GDP. 2% cuts will do nothing, what is needed is your military budget needs to be cut by 50% to 2% of GDP

Paraclete: Can not do the military cutting....ChiComs are building up their military....threatening Australia, too.....we could cut foreign assistance and save money.

A possible savings of 30 billion bucks but at what costs? Here is an interesting interactive site that breaks down those costs and why we spend those bucks.

https://www.foreignassistance.gov/

I somewhat agree that cutting the military with the hot messes going on in the world may not work to well for our own security. But those foreign aid dollars are also designed to not need more military, and indeed may work better than bullets, boats, and planes in some places.

I somewhat agree that cutting the military with the hot messes going on in the world may not work to well for our own security. But those foreign aid dollars are also designed to not need more military, and indeed may work better than bullets, boats, and planes in some places.

That's the point America First right-wing isolationists always gloss over. Simplistic thinking.

We have over 60,000 troops in Europe. That would be a good place to make reductions.

Here's an interesting chart

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/u-s-military-personnel-deployments-country/


Or maybe we start with how much the dufus spends at his golf course and the PROFIT involved.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2018/05/18/bill-mandates-disclosure-government-spending-trump-properties/622999002/

All of that might be fine if we could afford it, but we plainly cannot.

All of that might be fine if we could afford it, but we plainly cannot.

Costs money to maintain military bases and readiness. Costs money to help our new fledged democracy in the Ukraine grow as they are occupied by Russian mercenaries in the east after Crimea was annexed from them by Russian forces. Yet the dufus is extorting them to get dirt on his political foes, to get re elected, by stalling arms and systems to defend themselves, and getting them to admit they not Russia interfered in our 2016 election. Coupled with his planned military cuts to projects, bases, in eastern Europe to fund his southern wall its very evident that the US cannot afford the dufus foreign policy, nor his affinity to Russia against the advice of the Pentagon, or his trade war that he lies is making big bucks for us, while he ignores Kim shooting missiles again, yet despite these things not being on the news, the rumblings of war are beating in between Iran and the Saudis.

What we can't afford is the dufus.

Nice job, tal. This will fall down on deaf ears of the Trumpistas here and they will respond with a rant that means nothing. However, other viewers will read and learn.

Paraclete: Can not do the military cutting....ChiComs are building up their military....threatening Australia, too.....we could cut foreign assistance and save money.

China has no made direct threats to the US or Australia, as to foreign assistance, that is tied aid so it is actually national assistance

What we can't afford is the dufus.

But you were fine with Obama doubling the national debt? How about that!

No, not really but the debts from inherited wars, which he added to the books where before was a hidden costs and the inherited RECCESION that was tanking the WORLD economy as well as bleeding American jobs, was unavoidable, but deficit funded tax cuts to rich guys, that has already made little or no impact on growth, and will never pay for themselves as promised, added to the dumb stuff cited in the last post makes for one incompetent mismanaged mess. That's not even the tip of the iceberg, JL, because I have a whole list of stuff the dufus administration flunkies have scandalized right under our noses that you ignore that touches nearly every aspect of American life, from education to energy, and land management, to disaster relief. None of that is why there is an impeachment inquiry though, NAW, that's because he has done what no president should do and that's more collusion with another foreign entity for his own personal gain, and the power to rip off his country some more.

So you keep hollering what Obama did, and ignore what the dufus is doing now, just because either you don't know, don't understand, or just don't care, because you got your tax cuts, and judges and your country gets the shaft. If you studied current events like you study your bible you may have a chance at getting it.

Oh was that just more swipes at the dufus? You darn skippy it was, and every word is TRUE! Unlike the dufus whose words are all lies. Do you trust 60 minutes? Watch it tonight.

a whole list of stuff the dufus administration flunkies have scandalized right under our noses that you ignore that touches nearly every aspect of American life,

You mean like allowing 4 Americans to die in Benghazi? Or allowing veterans to die with an inept VA? Or using the IRS to deny tax exempt status to conservative groups? Or doing nothing after a botched gun-running scheme with Mexico? Or doing nothing while his Sec. of State was using a toy server to transmit confidential information? Or refusing to act when his AG met in private with HC's husband only days before announcing there would be no charges against her? Are those the kinds of things you are referring to?

Selective outrage fills the room with an unappealing odor.

You mean like allowing 4 Americans to die in Benghazi? Or allowing veterans to die with an inept VA? Or using the IRS to deny tax exempt status to conservative groups? Or doing nothing after a botched gun-running scheme with Mexico? Or doing nothing while his Sec. of State was using a toy server to transmit confidential information? Or refusing to act when his AG met in private with HC's husband only days before announcing there would be no charges against her? Are those the kinds of things you are referring to?

Selective outrage fills the room with an unappealing odor.

The only odor is from you, pal, with your false spin on every event you mentioned. Stay in your far right swamp with the rest of your smelly critters. Come back when you learn the truth.

I thought you said you were done with me? In fact, I desperately hope that I read that accurately. Your hatefulness gets tiresome.

I'm done with your lies about eternal punishment and the misreading of the Bible. Anything else you say is fair game.

You know what they say, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

I thought you said you were done with me? In fact, I desperately hope that I read that accurately. Your hatefulness gets tiresome. You are an amusing poster, though. I must admit that's true, but I do feel sorry for you. To be so eaten up with anger must be a terrible way to live. So often I read your posts and am so glad that I'm not the one who wrote them.

I can assure you that I've never been in a kitchen too hot for me.

I thought you said you were done with me? In fact, I desperately hope that I read that accurately. Your hatefulness gets tiresome. You are an amusing little guy, though. I must admit.
That was a different thread. And he's not little.

Always the putdown. So Christian of you.</sarcasm font>

You mean like allowing 4 Americans to die in Benghazi? Or allowing veterans to die with an inept VA? Or using the IRS to deny tax exempt status to conservative groups? Or doing nothing after a botched gun-running scheme with Mexico? Or doing nothing while his Sec. of State was using a toy server to transmit confidential information? Or refusing to act when his AG met in private with HC's husband only days before announcing there would be no charges against her? Are those the kinds of things you are referring to?

Selective outrage fills the room with an unappealing odor.

Says the guy who is holding his nose, while the dufus does his dirt. Proof positive that you are no better than us. Maybe that's the lesson we all should learn, and strive to do better.

I'll save the bristling rebuttal to your positions and opinions for another time, though I'm sure you've heard them before, because while blew your chance to do something about such things as you described, you better duck while we have our chance to correct the wrongs that aggrieves us NOW!

Maybe we get it right, maybe we don't

Let's get some things straight:

1) Communist China is a threat to at least 75% of the world (the non-Chinese part), U.S. and Australia include: If you wait around for the ChiComs to provide a gold-plated "DIRECT THREAT" announcement, you won't see it.

2) Regardless of WHO is the POTUS, at any given time, the U.S. is the "GOOD GUY" in the world: If the U.S. didn't exist, no freedoms of any sort would exist in this world. The U.S. does a lot of good for a lot of nations around the world.....Anyone who tries to put rain on the U.S.'s positions as a source of global help, financially and otherwise, is just not wanting to see the real picture.

3) With Crimea, Russia "took back" an area of the Ukraine that is ethnically, culturally, and speaks Russian: Crimea was "GIVEN" to the Ukraine in 1958 by Kruschev: Say what you will, but Crimea has always been RUSSIAN.

4) Cannot understand the left's fascination with the Ukraine: The Ukrainian Government is FAR RIGHT WING....some even call it Fascist.....but the left is drooling over it like its a darling socialist state of some kind.....this is a paradox.

5) I hear what your selling, I'm just not buying: Through all of the NEW TRUMP SCANDAL, I am hearing about the ghostlike, omnipresent "Whistleblower," who heard a story from someone and then heard another story from someone else who heard a story from someone else, and so on and so forth: This is hearsay bullsh&$ and its inadmissible evidence in Court.....If you want to say that this isn't a court proceeding, do so at your own risk because it sounds like you are skirting the law and trying to "CONVICT" someone without due process (i.e. sounds like a chicken sh&$ process as it is generally viewed by most people).....this kind of crap usually doesn't turn out well for the accusers, particularly if they aren't man enough to come out of the shadows and show their face/s. John Dean came out of the shadows and did nothing to endear himself at all...eventually became one of the most hated men in America because he appeared to be a treacherous, back-stabbing SOB.

6) When Congressmen stand up in front of the nations and exclaim that "I took an Oath To The Constitution" then why doesn't that same bunch in Congress follow the Constitution by taking a VOTE IN CONGRESS TO BEGIN THE IMPEACHMENT INQUIRY AS DIRECTED BY THE CONSTITUTION? I think I know why: Because, if they vote, their names are tied to the vote....and its one thing to talk about this stuff when you have no skin in the game.....taking a vote makes you put your skin in the game.....GUTLESS WONDERS!

Yes, there are a lot of gutless wonders in the world and many reside in political parties because there they can be protected for acting for the cause. But you kid yourself, the US is no longer the good guy, hasn't been for yonks. It is a nation that actively interferes in the affairs of other nations. The whistleblower is another gutless wonder, hidden away and yet this is a person who must have been in a position of trust.

So all this straightness you claim is just rhetoric, stuff repeated over and over until someone calls it truth. That Trump is not an ideal person for the presidency where great power is exercised is obvious, but what does his ascendency tell us about the US, there are a lot of gutless wonders hiding in the shadows, because in the real world a person like this should not have succeeded but he did, and therefore impeachment is just another cowards castle

Your hatefulness gets tiresome.

Not nearly as yours. Mine is very limited. Yours encompasses most of humanity as you gleefully consign the majority to eternal punishment in hell. At least that happens only in your twisted mind.


I can assure you that I've never been in a kitchen too hot for me.

In time, in time......

Proof positive that you are no better than us. Maybe that's the lesson we all should learn, and strive to do better.

Well said. I can go along with that.


So all this straightness you claim is just rhetoric, stuff repeated over and over until someone calls it truth. That Trump is not an ideal person for the presidency where great power is exercised is obvious, but what does his ascendency tell us about the US, there are a lot of gutless wonders hiding in the shadows, because in the real world a person like this should not have succeeded but he did, and therefore impeachment is just another cowards castle.

You do realize we are just saying the same things over and over? You feel that way about Trump, and I feel that way about Obama. I can see how a person would criticize Trump. For that matter, I criticize Trump, but it's your utter refusal to say even the slightest critical comment about Obama, HC, or other dems that is bothersome. Dirt is dirt, no matter if it clings to a dem or a repub. I just think your criticism needs to become non-partisan. You falsely accused me of promoting cruelty, and yet you enthusiastically supported two liberal dems who are big-time supporters of abortion. There is nothing more cruel than tearing a living human being apart, one arm or leg at a time, and yet you seem to be just fine with that. It's that element of your belief system that is completely puzzling to me. Maybe you could take some time to explain it.


2) Regardless of WHO is the POTUS, at any given time, the U.S. is the "GOOD GUY" in the world: If the U.S. didn't exist, no freedoms of any sort would exist in this world. The U.S. does a lot of good for a lot of nations around the world.....Anyone who tries to put rain on the U.S.'s positions as a source of global help, financially and otherwise, is just not wanting to see the real picture.

Pretty good comment, Vac.

You do realize we are just saying the same things over and over?

must you state the obvious all the time

must you state the obvious all the time

If none of us stated the obvious, then we'd have next to nothing to say.

and that differs, How?

and that differs, How?

The key point was my use of the pronoun "us" versus your usage of "you". In other words, welcome to the club.

Hard to frame yourself as a good guy when you have a scandal ridden dufus who admits shaking down a smaller nation for his own political gain during our elections. Hard to claim how good you are when you defend dictators and tyrants and badmouth your own long held allies. I mean on the global stage this dufus did cast doubt on his own government assessments, and took Putin's side no matter what he has done. This isn't just one instance, setting up and assassinating an American journalist, forgiven and forgotten, business as usual.

Who the leader of the free world is does matter, and we screwed up our own credibility. Puffing up our egos with past glory is sort of INSANE! Bullying other nations is CRIMINAL!

Talaniman: Forget about the current Administration for a moment, put Trump aside: The U.S. has and does provide tremendous funding and assistance to nations arounds the world...that cannot be contested....and that has happened under all Administrations. We are humanitarians....If you know one nation that has done more than the U.S., please name it. The U.S. isn't obligated to do one damn thing for anyone other than our own people...and that is true, also....so, whatever we do, it is because we do it of our own benevolent desire to do so, no one is holding a gun to our head. Current Administration aside, the U.S. is still #1 in the world at helping people around the world.....In our DNA, the U.S. is unlike any other country in this world: We resist being "Bad", its just not us! We aren't going to produce and we will not allow a Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Napoleon, Khan or any other crazy SOB to drive us to become anything other than what we have always been: The U.S. is EXCEPTIONAL in the history of the world.....no one man is going to change that, either!

You know, Talaniman: In 5 or 6 years, max, Trump will be out of the Whitehouse...the U.S. will still be here....we will still be a Republic with democratic principles....the sun will still rise in the morning in the East and set in the West...and life will still go on. At most, Trump, in the big scheme of things, is only here for a short time.....WHATEVER WILL BE, WILL BE!

Hard to frame yourself as a good guy when you have a scandal ridden dufus who admits shaking down a smaller nation for his own political gain during our elections. Hard to claim how good you are when you defend dictators and tyrants and badmouth your own long held allies. I mean on the global stage this dufus did cast doubt on his own government assessments, and took Putin's side no matter what he has done.

1. I have not tried to frame myself as "a good guy".
2. You had your own "scandal ridden dufus" and never raised so much as a whisper to oppose him, and you sure won't do it now, so you might as well drop the "holier than thou" song and dance. It gets tiresome.
3. It all comes down to policies. Obama's pro-abortion stance, his enormous budget deficits and anemic economic growth, and his ineffective foreign policy evidently suited you well. The Benghazi disaster and subsequent campaign of lying in order to get reelected was worse than anything I've seen with Trump.

And like I said earlier, we have reached the point of just repeating the same statements over and over. There is absolutely nothing new. Neither of us seems to be able to say anything to effect change in the other. It's all getting kind of old.

It must be stated though that despite our views it is currently before the public as dems attempt to make the case against the dufus so our opinions about whatever is a moot point as we are definitely deal with that and not Mr. Obama. Your horse appears dead, and we have begun beating ours.

Your horse appears dead, and we have begun beating ours.

That one made me laugh. You put it just about right.

Ok, have not read all the thread, but if the whistle blower is CIA, then no he is not a whistle blower but he is following orders of someone. CIA do so many illegal things all the time and have a code of not talking about it. So no CIA would ever tell on a President unless someone higher in power is controlling this

Welocme, Fr. Always nice to have another voice in this discussion.

Fr Chuck: You aren't suggesting George Soros has something to do with it, are you?

Fr Chuck: You aren't suggesting George Soros has something to do with it, are you?

No he is suggesting someone high in the CIA, etc

With all the bad mouthing by the dufus of everybody, I wouldn't be surprised if somebody had enough.

Talaniman: Dufus or no, he is the Commander In Chief and that is sacred: Anyone who would get a paycheck at the Federal level and purposely impugn the POTUS, WHOEVER THE POTUS IS AT THE TIME, needs to be thrown out and possibly see jail bars....cannot continue to operate this way.

So Hunter Biden gets paid millions of dollars for doing...nothing? All of you who seem to be so skilled in reading between the lines on Trump's phone call, can you read between the lines on that one? Biden, as VP, was prohibited from taking money from foreign entities, so he instead sends his son to rake it in. Sound OK to you? And now we know that Biden lied about discussing that business deal with his son. As it is being reported, "'I have never spoken to my son about his overseas business dealings,” Biden said, pointing the finger at President Trump. “I know Trump deserves to be investigated. He is violating every basic norm of a president. You should be asking him why is he on the phone with a foreign leader, trying to intimidate a foreign leader. You should be looking at Trump.'

Hunter Biden told The New Yorker previously that he and his father had spoken “just once” about his work in Ukraine."

And now a picture has surfaced of the Bidens playing golf with...guess who. Two reps from the Ukranian business which employed Hunter. And they didn't talk business?? Right. So, all of you who are howling for Trump's head, let's see if you really believe in the rule of law and in the ethical behavior of government officials.

None of this is coming from second hand sources. It is all right in front of us for all to see.

jlisenbe: To Talaniman's defense, he did say Biden was "Fair Game" to go after because he is running for POTUS......I hope the law is fair and the dragnet takes on all collections and evaluates each before throwing certain ones out and saying that they are O.K.

So Hunter Biden gets paid millions of dollars for doing...nothing? All of you who seem to be so skilled in reading between the lines on Trump's phone call, can you read between the lines on that one? Biden, as VP, was prohibited from taking money from foreign entities, so he instead sends his son to rake it in. Sound OK to you?

Sounds like you might be making it up with no evidence whatsoever that Jo sent his son to make millions in his place, or that his son got paid for nothing just because he was on the board of an energy company. Show me the evidence for my perusal please.


And now we know that Biden lied about discussing that business deal with his son. As it is being reported, "'I have never spoken to my son about his overseas business dealings,” Biden said, pointing the finger at President Trump. “I know Trump deserves to be investigated. He is violating every basic norm of a president. You should be asking him why is he on the phone with a foreign leader, trying to intimidate a foreign leader. You should be looking at Trump.'

Hunter Biden told The New Yorker previously that he and his father had spoken “just once” about his work in Ukraine."

What was said between them, maybe Joe just didn't remember because there were no memorable details or maybe it was "I got a job dad!" Okay maybe he lied about that one conversation. We still should be looking at the dufus for what he does, and his public release of his memo. Right, or that one lie means the dufus should NOT be looked at for his many lies?

That's not logical. Nor fact based so where's your evidence of wrong doing? I can wait, I have time.


And now a picture has surfaced of the Bidens playing golf with...guess who. Two reps from the Ukranian business which employed Hunter. And they didn't talk business?? Right. So, all of you who are howling for Trump's head, let's see if you really believe in the rule of law and in the ethical behavior of government officials.

None of this is coming from second hand sources. It is all right in front of us for all to see.

I will see your golf photo, and raise you the many golf photos of the dufus and his rich friends not just on the golf course, but the many other properties he has at taxpayer expense. You think they were talking golf or food, or females? Yeah we have a video of the dufus and Epstein too.

Tell you what you investigate Biden or anyone else you want to, and we investigate the dufus. FAIR?

Sounds like you might be making it up with no evidence whatsoever that Jo sent his son to make millions in his place, or that his son got paid for nothing just because he was on the board of an energy company. Show me the evidence for my perusal please.

Biden claims to have not talked with son about the job. The son said he did. There is a pic of the two of them playing golf with two of the company's officials. Now I realize that liberal dems will look at that like they looked at AG Lynch meeting with BC in secret for nearly an hour, and then just a few days later we see the FBI decline to press charges against HC after saying that she did, in fact, violate the law. Well, nothing to see here. Just keep moving. Nothing to see here.


What was said between them, maybe Joe just didn't remember because there were no memorable details or maybe it was "I got a job dad!" Okay maybe he lied about that one conversation. We still should be looking at the dufus for what he does, and his public release of his memo. Right, or that one lie means the dufus should NOT be looked at for his many lies?

Now let's see if you are going to apply that same wonderfully reasonable approach to Mr. Trump, or for that matter if you applied it to Judge Kavanaugh at his hearing where there was basically nothing credible against him other than the story of a person with an incredibly inefficient memory.


That's not logical. Nor fact based so where's your evidence of wrong doing? I can wait, I have time.

We can both wait. The evidence against Trump and the evidence against Biden are, in both cases, circumstantial. The difference is that the liberal dems, as they seem to always do, are enraged anytime Trump sneezes, but indifferent as to what any liberal dem might do.

Doesn't compare to the right wing outrage at the Clintons or decades long efforts to bring them down, and for the record screw your frat boy, and your ignorance of the trauma of assault victims. I can bet if you were assaulted your memory would be somewhat deficient, especially without witnesses, or a co conspirator lying for his buddy. I believe Ms. Ford over the young drunks every time.

for the record screw your frat boy, and your ignorance of the trauma of assault victims. I can bet if you were assaulted your memory would be somewhat deficient, especially without witnesses, or a co conspirator lying for his buddy. I believe Ms. Ford over the young drunks every time.

He was in a fraternity, so he must be guilty? No real evidence, and the case would never have made into a court room because of a lack of evidence, but he must be guilty because he was a "frat boy". Good grief. What an approach to justice. You had your mind made up before there was ever a minute of testimony. You say there were not witnesses, but Ford alleged there were, and yet the two people she named did not even remember knowing Kavanaugh or being at the party.

Your attitude towards Kavanaugh is the textbook definition of prejudice. You made your mind up before the "facts" were even presented. He must be guilty because, after all, he's "frat boy".

Now you are so even-handed in your treatment of Biden, but guess who else was a "frat boy"? If you guessed Joe Biden, then you guessed right. Why is it that Kavanaugh was automatically guilty, but you insist on a rational and fair evaluation of the evidence against Biden? Why do you treat the two men so differently? Could politics have anything to do with it?

Was Biden a drunk frat boy? Any claims of assault or bad behavior? Can you not see the difference? Your ability to compare and conflate as equal two different things never ceases to amaze me. Is that prejudice on YOUR part, or just politics.

Doesn't matter I suppose, I ain't going for it.

Was Biden a drunk frat boy? Any claims of assault or bad behavior? Can you not see the difference? Your ability to compare and conflate as equal two different things never ceases to amaze me. Is that prejudice on YOUR part, or just politics.

Was Biden a drunk frat boy? I don't know. Do you? As to Kavanaugh, he was in high school when this supposed incident took place, so he was not a frat boy at that point. Can you assure us you never drank in high school or college? If so, then wouldn't that put you in the same category as Judge K other than not having a bogus charge of assault filed against you?

There is an allegation of bad behavior of Biden now, but you are completely willing to wait for the evidence. Why weren't you willing to do that for Kavanaugh?

Just let the EVIDENCE lead in all this. If there is evidence, let's here it, thoroughly....If there isn't any evidence, let's just let things go.

I never liked frat boys: I always said that they were the best friends money could buy! But, I don't believe in guilt by association either or that you can stereotype people because of their associations with a given group: You just don't know the context of the relationship or the individual specimen's behavior. I will say this, though: Many people ACT differently in groups than they do individually...its the pack mentality.

Was Biden a drunk frat boy? I don't know. Do you? As to Kavanaugh, he was in high school when this supposed incident took place, so he was not a frat boy at that point. Can you assure us you never drank in high school or college? If so, then wouldn't that put you in the same category as Judge K other than not having a bogus charge of assault filed against you?

There is an allegation of bad behavior of Biden now, but you are completely willing to wait for the evidence. Why weren't you willing to do that for Kavanaugh?

He was a drunk frat boy in college, according to his college mates, but not a peep about Biden, and for the record I was guzzling Wild Irish Rose among other things at a young age and through HS and college and beyond until I saw the light. Drunk maybe but no assaults against women ever. Do brawls count? Plenty of those too. I own my words, and actions, and history, no Boy Scouts here. Not so sure about how bogus his assault allegation was, he was never charged, but I believe the victim's testimony unproved and unsubstantiated as it was. I know a lot of females in that same situation, too many to be dismissed summarily, sham investigation notwithstanding!

If you think I would believe allegations by a lying cheating dufus or his ilk on ANY subject without some damn hard evidence then you mistake me for someone else. I have more common sense than that. Like you said allegations are not evidence, and he was a drunk frat boy, and no comparison to me, or Joe!

he was a drunk frat boy, and no comparison to me, or Joe!

Well of course there is. He was a college student that sometimes drank too much just like you just said you were. There is, in fact, a very good comparison.

In Kavanaugh's case, he was never accused of sexual assault UNTIL he was nominated to the SC and was seen as giving the court a conservative majority. How interesting!! Does that remind you of Clarence Thomas??? So you are a conservative nominated to the SCOTUS and suddenly a woman who has been strangely silent all those years decides to come forward. And you wonder why I am suspicious?

Nothing to be suspicious of. You got the drunk frat boy who may or may not have assaulted a teen age girl on SCOTUS, just like you got a lying cheating dufus in POTUS. Still you beetch! Save it for when we dump the dufus.

You got the drunk frat boy who may or may not have assaulted a teen age girl

But the same thing is true of you and me except we were not in fraternities. But for all you know, or for all I know, the other one might have done that very thing. And that's what happens when you support these partisan witch hunts. You cheapen the process of justice and reduce it to nothing more than believing unsupported allegations simply because of politics.


just like you got a lying cheating dufus in POTUS.

You had the same thing in Obama, but it didn't bother you with him. Politics.

You slam us we slam you, okay that's politics. So what now? I suggest you learn to duck when you see rocks in my hand. Oh, wait Itold you that already. You may as well relax and enjoy the popcorn like me and Vac. Watch him, he likes popcorn and is rather greedy with his big hands.

Wonder what the State Dept. IG wants to see the bi partisan, bucameral, multi commitee about?

You slam us we slam you, okay that's politics. So what now? I suggest you learn to duck when you see rocks in my hand. Oh, wait Itold you that already. You may as well relax and enjoy the popcorn like me and Vac. Watch him, he likes popcorn and is rather greedy with his big hands.

Maybe we ought to be concerned about the truth.

Start with the dufus is a lying cheating bully with a self serving agenda. Not a fit leader at all for this nation. Unfortunately we got what we deserve.

Start with the dufus is a lying cheating bully with a self serving agenda. Not a fit leader at all for this nation. Unfortunately we got what we deserve.

well at least you recognise that, you deserve him

Start with the dufus is a lying cheating bully with a self serving agenda. Not a fit leader at all for this nation. Unfortunately we got what we deserve.

Your protest would sound a lot more genuine if it had started several years earlier with the many scandals of the Obama administration. Your selective outrage just rings hollow now.

Paraclete & Talaniman: Got news for you: ALL of the Congress and Senate are also crooks...it doesn't start or stop with Trump: Not a one of them is clean: How else do you reconcile their personal wealth compared to their salaries? YOU CAN'T DO IT! If you started having investigative "COMMITTEES" delving into every member of Congress and Senate, you would find every single of them is filthy after a couple of years. Even that idealistic, young, beautiful, gorgeous, dreamy looking Congress woman from N.Y., Miss AOC, who happens to be socialists, is, more likely than not, well on her way already to becoming tainted with what appears to be legalized theft.


The American people's views of what constitutes an elected official is "Institutionalized" in our thought processes about career politicians being considered "normal", expected behavior for the leadership in the U.S.: This is all they know, at this point! It is no less akin to those populations that have been born and raised under dictatorships thinking that that is the normal behavior and mechanics of how the "system" is supposed to operate. The Founding Fathers did not intend for people to get into Congress and Senate and sit their asses ensconced for life! That was never intended!

I would be very happy if the U.S. NEVER EVER HAD ANOTHER CAREER POLITICIAN AS POTUS. Trump isn't the man for the job? O.K.....but that doesn't mean that we should revert back to our old way of pulling a denizen out of the swamp and putting him in as POTUS. Trump's "SWAMP" analogy isn't that far off the mark.

Words cannot express how happy I am that AOC is a democrat and not a republican.


Paraclete & Talaniman: Got news for you: ALL of the Congress and Senate are also crooks...it doesn't start or stop with Trump: Not a one of them is clean:

I wouldn't go quite that far. I think there are some honest members, but yes, many of them are corrupt. The difference is that a career politician, like Obama, for instance, becomes skilled at cover up. They never come out and say completely what they believe. They manipulate the fog very well. Trump, on the other hand, just thinks it and says it. You might not like him, but at least you do know where he stands.

Your protest would sound a lot more genuine if it had started several years earlier with the many scandals of the Obama administration. Your selective outrage just rings hollow now.

It's MY outrage and I will select who took aim it at.


Paraclete & Talaniman: Got news for you: ALL of the Congress and Senate are also crooks...it doesn't start or stop with Trump: Not a one of them is clean: How else do you reconcile their personal wealth compared to their salaries? YOU CAN'T DO IT! If you started having investigative "COMMITTEES" delving into every member of Congress and Senate, you would find every single of them is filthy after a couple of years. Even that idealistic, young, beautiful, gorgeous, dreamy looking Congress woman from N.Y., Miss AOC, who happens to be socialists, is, more likely than not, well on her way already to becoming tainted with what appears to be legalized theft.


The American people's views of what constitutes an elected official is "Institutionalized" in our thought processes about career politicians being considered "normal", expected behavior for the leadership in the U.S.: This is all they know, at this point! It is no less akin to those populations that have been born and raised under dictatorships thinking that that is the normal behavior and mechanics of how the "system" is supposed to operate. The Founding Fathers did not intend for people to get into Congress and Senate and sit their asses ensconced for life! That was never intended!

I would be very happy if the U.S. NEVER EVER HAD ANOTHER CAREER POLITICIAN AS POTUS. Trump isn't the man for the job? O.K.....but that doesn't mean that we should revert back to our old way of pulling a denizen out of the swamp and putting him in as POTUS. Trump's "SWAMP" analogy isn't that far off the mark.

I got nothing against better vetting, or MAYBE term limits.

Words cannot express how happy I am that AOC is a democrat and not a republican.



I wouldn't go quite that far. I think there are some honest members, but yes, many of them are corrupt. The difference is that a career politician, like Obama, for instance, becomes skilled at cover up. They never come out and say completely what they believe. They manipulate the fog very well. Trump, on the other hand, just thinks it and says it. You might not like him, but at least you do know where he stands.

I've heard your allegations but not seen your evidence or repubs doing anything about it at the time so it's easy to dismiss right wing talking points they use to convince themselves and as for the honesty of what the dufus says, my gosh they are proven lies even if they sound good to you, but it's comical the way you spin the lies and big mouth as a good thing.

not seen your evidence

On Obama? Are you kidding? How about 4 dead bodies in Benghazi? Would that be enough evidence for you? The lying on 5 Sunday morning news programs that went on? Or the VA scandal? Or the IRS scandal? The secret meeting between Lynch and BC just days before HC was let off the hook? If you can't see that, then your eyes are closed. It is all out in the open for anyone who is interested in the truth to notice.

That's what really discredits your complaining in my view. Your explosive vitriol that you direct at Trump, and yet the incredible blindness you direct towards Obama just make your complaining to be clearly a lot of political noise.

You sound like a broken record with half of it missing, so all due respect, I dismiss your whole accounting of what is now documented and archived HISTORY. Today we have the saddest excuse for a great nation as I have ever witnessed and it honestly gives me no joy or pride to endure it, but I do hope as a nation we can overcome this dismal display of idiocy.

To clarify, It goes beyond the partisan political noise of typical silly season electioneering, it's America at a lot less than it's best, and that diminishes us both, as well as ALL of US!

jlisenbe: I am glad AOC is not a Libertarian, too....However, she is an idealist...and I don't agree with those ideals much at all.....But, she is a beautiful woman! And, I always liked beautiful women! Personal weakness!

I dismiss your whole accounting of what is now documented and archived HISTORY.

So you dismiss the negatives of the Obama years? Why am I not surprised? Again, it makes so much of your complaining just ring hollow.




jlisenbe: I am glad AOC is not a Libertarian, too....However, she is an idealist...and I don't agree with those ideals much at all.....But, she is a beautiful woman! And, I always liked beautiful women! Personal weakness!

Beautiful on the outside. Inside??? Highly suspect.

So you dismiss the negatives of the Obama years? Why am I not surprised? Again, it makes so much of your complaining just ring hollow.

You misread, I dismiss your accounting of the Obama administration.

So you dismiss the negatives of the Obama years?

Do you think Obama was born in the US?

NO, he lied

Paraclete: I have always had my suspicions about Obama's birthplace, too....never reconciled it in my mind.....he could have prevented all that by just immediately producing his Birth Certificate when all the talk about it started but he waited way too long, which added to the gossipers conversation.

Anybody concerned with Rudy and our government helping the thug dufus get dirt on political foes from other countries? Or asking China to get dirt on his political foes?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-wanted-ukraines-president-to-launch-investigations-before-face-to-face-meeting-state-dept-texts-show/ar-AAIdK4q?ocid=spartanntp

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/rick-perry-expected-to-resign-in-november/ar-AAIfPOY?ocid=spartanntp

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/democrats-see-echoes-of-russia-as-trump-seeks-china-probe-of-joe-biden/ar-AAIfyn6?ocid=spartanntp

3 different links folks, and obviously I'm going to ignore that birther stuff and why you would even question the birthplace of a congressman, then a senator with an American mom in the first place.

Just breaking!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/whistleblower-claims-possible-improper-efforts-to-influence-irs-audits-of-trump-or-pence-tax-returns/


More stalling?

Do you think Obama was born in the US?

I have no reason not to believe that, just like I have no reason not to believe that he orchestrated a gigantic cover up about what caused the Benghazi massacre.


reveal that officials felt Trump would not agree to meet with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky unless Zelensky promised to launch the investigations — and did so publicly.

So they FELT that? Well then it just has to be true, doesn't it??? I mean that is what they FELT!!

I think it would be laughable if not so serious, that the dufus worries so much about corruption in other countries but goes through great lengths to hide his own. Even more puzzling is that repubs think it's okay for foreigners to investigate Americans who so far happen to be just his political enemies.

I guess if a liar says it often enough then it must be true huh?

that the dufus worries so much about corruption in other countries but goes through great lengths to hide his own.

Says the man who voted for Obama TWICE and for HC as well, both individuals well known for scandals.

So it's okay to solicit a foreign government to investigate an American citizen who happens to be his political opponent. I think the law says otherwise.

You got me! I voted for Obama TWICE, and HC once and never held my nose, nor am I holding it now. Can you say the same? Of course you can't. You have to excuse me while I READ the emails brought forth in yesterdays testimony.

So it's okay to solicit a foreign government to investigate an American citizen who happens to be his political opponent. I think the law says otherwise.

I haven't said that is OK, but at least I am an equal opportunity criticizer. You, on the other hand, are politically selective with your outrage. While you're reading those emails, you might want to visit the graves of the dead Americans from Benghazi. Might give you a little perspective.


You got me! I voted for Obama TWICE, and HC once and never held my nose, nor am I holding it now. Can you say the same?

If you didn't hold your nose with those two, then you must have lost your sense of smell.

I think the road is laden with mines! Here is the issue: To find dirt on someone, they must have made dirt......then comes the question of: Why did they make dirt in the first place. Just because someone with few scruples, like President Trump, has the temerity to ask a foreign government for dirt on you doesn't absolve you from the need to be scrutinized...playing the victim is fairly superficial. If you didn't commit a crime, of some description, then there wouldn't be a rug to find dirt under. I think this whole thing is headed for a "Nuclear Exchange" if the documents Giuliani has on the Bidens (Father & Son) come to light.....Trump may take a torpedo below the water line but Biden will absorb a so many salvos his ship, too, will keel over.

Its going to get really nasty.

It's silly season Vac, and no dirt is actually needed to smear an opponent or anybody else since that's been the dufus playbook since he announced his candidacy. It's against the law to solicit a foreign nation to help a political campaign no matter what the cover story is, and against the law for you to use government time and resources to run a campaign.

If you cannot see that the dufus breaks both of those laws then maybe you should brush up on the law. I can forgive many for not being able to read the Mueller Reort, or understand it, but the latest developments are extremely compelling and the dufus is in trouble no matter what repubs in the senate do about it.

Yeah Nasty is the word for it alright. Guiliani will be the first casualty though I predict, but clearly others will get sucked into this mess the dufus makes.

I haven't said that is OK, but at least I am an equal opportunity criticizer. You, on the other hand, are politically selective with your outrage. While you're reading those emails, you might want to visit the graves of the dead Americans from Benghazi. Might give you a little perspective. If you didn't hold your nose with those two, then you must have lost your sense of smell.

Cherry picking your own facts and dismissing the whole story is highly prejudicial and deceptive since you got nothing but right wing talking points that ignore the findings in MANY investigations into this sneak attack. You go visit those graves for perspective as a life lost is tragic, and would have been more but for the actins of the others that blunted the attack.

Sadly that's the way terrorists attacks go, as well as anytime the bad guys get the drop on the good guys no matter where it is. We've had enough of those in this country for you to know that and have a sober perspective on it, so spare me the conspiracy theories of the loonies. Politicizing such a tragedy is just plain despicable.

Cherry picking your own facts and dismissing the whole story is highly prejudicial and deceptive since you got nothing but right wing talking points that ignore the findings in MANY investigations into this sneak attack.

Nah. You just don't like the facts. It was plainly a coordinated terror attack and Obama knew that, but then he sent Susan Rice onto five Sunday morning news programs to say it was just an spontaneous response to a offensive video the attackers did not like. That was completely untrue. If Trump had done that, you'd want his head, but since it was your beloved Mr. Obama, then you just blow the whole thing off. The families of the dead Americans would beg to differ with you. Politics.

I think it is important that a President should focus on the corruption that US citizens might be bringing to other countries. Clearly there are issues with Biden activities in the Ukraine

Paraclete: I am willing to let ALL the evidence come out and then decisions can be made intelligently.

This Hunter Biden, I found out, was kicked out of the Navy for drugs and then turned around and gained carnal knowledge of his brother's wife.....I don't know what he did or didn't do in the Ukraine but I know that I don't like him based off of those two facts....I am not Victorian nor am I a Puritan either but I draw the line on some things.

The whole affair with Ukraine will either be a bloodbath or it will blow over to nothing. Trump's ACE IN THE HOLE is AG Barr.

This Hunter Biden, I found out, was kicked out of the Navy for drugs and then turned around and gained carnal knowledge of his brother's wife.....I don't know what he did or didn't do in the Ukraine but I know that I don't like him based off of those two facts....I am not Victorian nor am I a Puritan either but I draw the line on some things.

The whole affair with Ukraine will either be a bloodbath or it will blow over to nothing. Trump's ACE IN THE HOLE is AG Barr.


"...gained carnal knowledge of his brother's wife..."! Good grief! Join the 21st century.

Anyway, you're dead wrong. They were both free agents. Hunter was separated from his wife, and his brother had died of brain cancer. You really should be more careful when assassinating someone's character. Tells us a lot about YOU.

As for the rest, it means nothing in the discussion over impeaching Trump. It's just another side-show distraction Trump is expert at when he needs to change the subject.

As far as Trump's ACE IN THE HOLE being AG Barr - what are you smoking? Barr is worse than Trump. At least Trump can plead Derangement Syndrome. Barr knows exactly what he's doing and will probably be criminally charged whereas Trump can only be impeached, not criminally charged (until he leaves office).

This seems like flogging a dead horse, it will be another case of nothing to see here

No doubt the president for profit would rather you look at his opponents which at the moment are the Bidens, than his own family, or what he is doing, both in the WH and outside of it. He certainly has enough sycophants and yes men around him to carry that out since he took over the repub party. He can stall all he wants but I hope dems keep up the pressure at least.

While it's not required to gather evidence, a vote in the House making the impeachment inquiry OFFICIAL would go a long way in swaying the courts to enforce all those subpoenas as well as a few more whistle blowers wouldn't hurt. LOL, the way to fight an unlawful bully is with the law. The dufus hates the law, because he is not above it despite the hype that he is.

This seems like flogging a dead horse, it will be another case of nothing to see here

Exactly.

Athos: Making out with my dead brother's wife is just creepy....that's all I'm saying.

I have no problem with scrutinizing candidates for president myself, and have said so, but not at the expense of ignoring the guy who holds the offfice already as a fair comparison. You want to follow Biden and his kids money fine, but let's follow the dufus's and his kids money too! Sounds fair to me.

So far though the dufus and his sycophants don't want fair and never did. I mean would you love the dufus as much if you found out that he owes Vlad a fortune, and Vlad was demanding his money? Sound far fetched? Well shouldn't we at least check it out? I mean the guy has run scams before with charities and fake schools and even scammed the government in housing and barred from all those things so what makes you think he wouldn't find another sucker after those casinos failed?

Maybe we should be asking those other countries he deals with for an investigation? Oh wait, that's exactly what Nancy and the dems are trying to do. That sounds pretty fair too!

Yo Vac, if you think doing the wild thang with a sister in law is creepy, what do you think about poking a few porn stars and playboy bunnies behind your wifes back and paying them to keep it quiet?

Talaniman: I just don't want us to start "Investigating" every single accusation that comes down the pipe....these investigations are expensive! Like frivolous lawsuits....there has to be some kind of legitimate "Screening Process" for these things to be vetted as realistic and for them to move forward.....that's my only contention....if they clear those hurdles, then its full speed ahead. Otherwise its Salem, Mass. all over again!

I couldn't imagine any of the NASTY stuff you mention...not doing it myself......and, making out with my brother's wife is a disgusting thought, alive or dead.....Of course, that is NO CRIME, just a weird proclivity and says something about his character. No a fan of DANCING with someone other than the one that brought me.....you want to do that, go get a big "D", and I don't mean Dallas.

There is a vetting process for whistle blowers to follow, and so far they have. That's why it gets dumped in the relevant Inspector Generals lap, and evaluated and moved to the congress. The second WB just came out.

Same can be said of the duly appointed special councel Robert Mueller who made his report earlier in the year though few read it and the dems dropped the ball in presenting it to the public, and executing it's findings, while repubs just ignored it completely, and blasted the dems incompetence. Shame.

I couldn't imagine any of the NASTY stuff you mention...not doing it myself......and, making out with my brother's wife is a disgusting thought, alive or dead.

Your Old Testament doesn't think so. My guess is your repulsion re normal sex is not matched by a similar repulsion against inbreeding.


that is NO CRIME, just a weird proclivity and says something about his character.

It says ENORMOUSLY more about your character than his!

It says ENORMOUSLY more about your character than his!

Exactly correct, but not likely in the way you mean it. If you want to make an appeal to character, then I don't know I would appeal to the Bidens.

Exactly correct, but not likely in the way you mean it. If you want to make an appeal to character, then I don't know I would appeal to the Bidens.

I doubt you would appeal to the dufus either.

I couldn't imagine any of the NASTY stuff you mention...not doing it myself......and, making out with my brother's wife is a disgusting thought, alive or dead.
"Your Old Testament doesn't think so. My guess is your repulsion re normal sex is not matched by a similar repulsion against inbreeding."


Athos: Now why would YOU, OF ALL PEOPLE, JUST OUT OF THE CLEAR BLUE, EVOKE THE BIBLE INTO ANY CONVERSATION? Are you a CLOSET BIBLICAL SCHOLAR? For a man that hates Bible references, you certainly are quick to attempt to bring them to bear at your convenience.

Man, I didn't realize this before, but you've really got no standards and certainly no sense of decency, whatsoever.

TALK ABOUT NASTY! And, it looks like your lack of standards extends far and wide: When you back these weirdos, you back them to the hilt, don't you, no matter how far out in space they are: Obviously, the qualifier for you that they are acceptable is that they have to be "of the left", I guess. NORMAL SEX? Now, how would know it was normal of that it wasn't normal: You weren't there: Here's is what the rest of the world knows: Ain't nothing NORMAL about sleeping with your dead brother's wife, under any circumstance: AND IF YOU THINK IT IS, THAT SAYS LOADS ABOUT YOU, SPORT!

What did I say to illicit the smartass comment to me about inbreeding? What the hell makes you think that I think that is O.K.? Inbreeding is not O.K., either


that is NO CRIME, just a weird proclivity and says something about his character.
"It says ENORMOUSLY more about your character than his!"


It does? What kind of prism are you looking through: YOU ARE ONE TWISTED SISTER: How does my objection to someone screwing their dead brother's wife impugn MY CHARACTER? Love to hear your left spinning spiral on that one.

I couldn't imagine any of the NASTY stuff you mention...not doing it myself......and, making out with my brother's wife is a disgusting thought, alive or dead.
"Your Old Testament doesn't think so. My guess is your repulsion re normal sex is not matched by a similar repulsion against inbreeding."
"

Athos: Now why would YOU, OF ALL PEOPLE, JUST OUT OF THE CLEAR BLUE, EVOKE THE BIBLE INTO ANY CONVERSATION?

Man, I didn't realize this before, but you've really got no standards and certainly no sense of decency, whatsoever.

TALK ABOUT NASTY! And, it looks like your lack of standards extends far and wide: When you back these weirdos, you back them to the hilt, don't you, no matter how far out in space they are: Obviously, the qualifier for you that they are acceptable is that they have to be "of the left", I guess. NORMAL SEX? Now, how would know it was normal of that it wasn't normal: You weren't there: Here's is what the rest of the world knows: Ain't nothing NORMAL about sleeping with your dead brother's wife, under any circumstance: AND IF YOU THINK IT IS, THAT SAYS LOADS ABOUT YOU, SPORT!

What did I say to illicit the smartass comment to me about inbreeding? What the hell makes you think that I think that is O.K.? Inbreeding is not O.K., either


that is NO CRIME, just a weird proclivity and says something about his character.
"It says ENORMOUSLY more about your character than his!"


It does? What kind of prism are you looking through: YOU ARE ONE TWISTED SISTER: How does my objection to someone screwing their dead brother's wife impugn MY CHARACTER? Love to hear your left spinning spiral on that one.

Too dopey to take the time to respond.

Athos: That's funny, you took time to DEFEND A DOPEHEAD named Biden but you can't defend your own words.....that is easy to figure out why: Your words can't be defended.

I doubt you would appeal to the dufus either.

You are entirely correct,Tal.

Athos: That's funny, you took time to DEFEND A DOPEHEAD named Biden but you can't defend your own words.....that is easy to figure out why: Your words can't be defended.
I agree with Athos. YOUR dopey response was too dopey to respond to.

That's fine that you choose to think that way but be aware: You are siding with Athos, the DEFENDER of A DOPEHEAD AND A MAN WHO SLEEPS WITH HIS DEAD BROTHER'S WIFE...A REAL WINNER OF A MAN.....And Athos, who for whatever twisted reason, the fellow who decided to insinuate that I thought that INBREEDING was acceptable behavior, and he knows, damn well, that he has never heard me make such a defense.....that is who you are siding with here.

That's fine that you choose to think that way but be aware: You are siding with Athos, the DEFENDER of A DOPEHEAD AND A MAN WHO SLEEPS WITH HIS DEAD BROTHER'S WIFE...A REAL WINNER OF A MAN.....And Athos, who for whatever twisted reason, the fellow who decided to insinuate that I thought that INBREEDING was acceptable behavior, and he knows, damn well, that he has never heard me make such a defense.....that is who you are siding with here.
What's wrong with sleeping with his dead brother's wife?

It sure sounds like you think sleeping with (btw, the first term used in this thread was "making out" -- now he's sleeping with her....?) one's sister-in-law is in-breeding ("a disgusting thought, dead or alive" -- your words that sound like you mean inbreeding).

W.G.: That is not what I said: What I said was that sleeping with/making out/gaining carnal knowledge of you dead brother's wife is not normal behavior and is not right, just sick behavior! All the women in this world and you choose your dead brother's wife: some kind of sick....Athos considers this to be normal.

I didn't say anything about "inbreeding", that was Athos when he told me that I probably thought had no problems with "inbreeding"......now, why would he say such a thing, what reason? He never heard me support such and abomination. I grew up on a farm, I know the dangers of inbreeding: its wrong.....and I don't care that European royal families thought it was just fine.

W.G.: That is not what I said: What I said was that sleeping with/making out/gaining carnal knowledge of you dead brother's wife is not normal behavior and is not right, just sick behavior! All the women in this world and you choose your dead brother's wife: some kind of sick....Athos considers this to be normal.
You didn't read my words carefully.

Btw, a widow had to marry her husband's brother in the OT.


I didn't say anything about "inbreeding", that was Athos when he told me that I probably thought had no problems with "inbreeding"......now, why would he say such a thing, what reason? He never heard me support such and abomination. I grew up on a farm, I know the dangers of inbreeding: its wrong.....and I don't care that European royal families thought it was just fine.
You used the word "disgusting." What did you mean then?

W.G.: I know what happened in the Bible but you must agree that MARRYING your dead brother's wife and promiscuously sleeping with your dead brother's wife are 180 degrees apart....one is commitment and one is for lust, exclusively. In the Bible, marriage is purposed bounded for reasons of procreation: there just weren't that many people around.

Yes, its my contention that it is DISGUSTING for a man to sleep with his dead brother's wife with the reason being pure lust.....I'm not a puritan but that is pretty twisted behavior.

W.G.: I know what happened in the Bible but you must agree that MARRYING your dead brother's wife and promiscuously sleeping with your dead brother's wife are 180 degrees apart....one is commitment and one is for lust, exclusively. In the Bible, marriage is purposed bounded for reasons of procreation: there just weren't that many people around.

Yes, its my contention that it is DISGUSTING for a man to sleep with his dead brother's wife with the reason being pure lust.....I'm not a puritan but that is pretty twisted behavior.
Pure lust. You know that was the reason. *cough* They're no longer together, by the way.

W.G.: Yes...any relationship that is based only in lust has no chance for surviving very long.

Athos: What did I say to illicit the smartass comment to me about inbreeding? What the hell makes you think that I think that is O.K.?

I will answer this one and for the rest the viewers can decide re your mental condition.

"What did you say to illicit the (expletive deleted) comment about inbreeding", you asked? And, "what makes you think I (V7) think it's ok", you asked?

I said that and think you consider inbreeding ok based on your posts since you arrived here. Almost all of them are irrational, not focused, and swing wildly from topic to topic rarely giving a coherent reply. These are all marks of inbreeding so I made an assumption re your origins.

Here's an example.


Athos: Now why would YOU, OF ALL PEOPLE, JUST OUT OF THE CLEAR BLUE, EVOKE THE BIBLE INTO ANY CONVERSATION? For a man that hates Bible references, you certainly are quick to attempt to bring them to bear at your convenience.

You charge me with hating Bible references. That's an excellent example of your hysteria. Anyone who has read my posts knows that is not true. In fact, I support accurate interpretations of the Good Book. When I "bring them to bear", not often, I do so never "at my convenience" but always to add to the discussion.

Hunter Biden's ethics and conduct are irrelevant to the matter before us and that's the whistle blower, and the possibility of at least one more coming forward, and the words and actions of the dufus being an abuse of power, and any illegality of his sycophants doing his bidding.

The dufus governs with fear and smears, aided and abetted by his hand picked yes men that completely ignore the rule of law. Our government has been taken over by a serial, career criminal and we knew that before he was elected.

Hunter Biden's ethics and conduct are irrelevant to the matter before us

Yes, he's a liberal democrat, so his unethical behavior is irrelevant. For that matter, he could have been responsible for the deaths of four Americans, but that would be irrelevant as well. Unethical behavior only matters when you are a conservative, even if it has to be made up as in the case of Kavanaugh.

No it only matters if you are a lying cheating dufus serving as president. That seems to be irrelevant to you since you always ignore the lawless dufus and aim for the contrived view of facts as your defense for him. He's a bully and you like it, so admit it and move on.

No it only matters if you are a lying cheating dufus serving as president. That seems to be irrelevant to you since you always ignore the lawless dufus

Not with you. When Obama was the "lying, cheating dufus", you could not have cared less. In fact, to this day, you stare the plain truth in the face and refer to it as a "contrived view of facts". You go talk with the family members of those four dead Americans and come back with that same pathetic story and we'll talk about it.

That's how you and I are different. I am an equal opportunity criticizer, but you only criticize those who are on the other side of the political fence. You have one set of ethics for liberal dems and an entirely different set for conservatives. That's why it's so hard to take your comments seriously.

Btw, a widow had to marry her husband's brother in the OT.

If I understand this thing correctly, Hunter was dating his brother's widow while he was still married to his estranged wife. So WG, are you saying the Bible is OK with that???


I said that and think you consider inbreeding ok based on your posts since you arrived here. Almost all of them are irrational, not focused, and swing wildly from topic to topic rarely giving a coherent reply. These are all marks of inbreeding so I made an assumption re your origins.

In other words, Vac7, he has no reason for saying you consider inbreeding to be OK. His statement was ridiculous. It would be nice to simply walk it back and say he should not have said it.

If I understand this thing correctly, Hunter was dating his brother's widow while he was still married to his estranged wife. So WG, are you saying the Bible is OK with that???

Is the bible okay with the dufus cheating on HIS wife multiple times? Is your understanding of Hunter Biden based on FACTS to begin with?


In other words, Vac7, he has no reason for saying you consider inbreeding to be OK. His statement was ridiculous. It would be nice to simply walk it back and say he should not have said it.

Why don't you lead by example here JL.

Is the bible okay with the dufus cheating on HIS wife multiple times? I absolutely would not be OK with that. It is a terrible lack of morals. But if you are going to knock Trump on that, then are you going to do likewise with Bill Clinton and Hunter Biden, or are you going to continue to drive on your one way street?



Is your understanding of Hunter Biden based on FACTS to begin with?

Yes. He confirmed he was dating his brother's widow prior to his divorce being finalized. Not only that, but his now ex-wife said this. "Former Vice President Joe Biden's daughter-in-law accused husband Hunter Biden — now in a relationship with his late brother's widow — of using drugs and visiting hookers in divorce papers filed last year." Now if we apply your Kavanaugh standard, then he must surely be guilty since, after all, she made the allegation.

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hunter-biden-wife-filed-divorce-december-article-1.2987101


Why don't you lead by example here JL.

As I have said before, any time you can show me where I have made a false statement, I will be glad to walk it back.

Athos: There are several reasons that someone could be, as you say, "irrational, not focused, and swing wildly" in discussions other than being INBRED......but instead of labeling me with any of those other possible behavioral reasons, you chome "INBRED": You hurt my feelings: I can assure you that I am not inbred: My Father was from Northern European stock (German) and my Mother from Southern European stock (Spain)….no connections pre-Franco, I can assure you.

Athos: You hurt my feelings with such a vulgar accusation.

W.G.: Yes...any relationship that is based only in lust has no chance for surviving very long.
You know it was lust....

Their relationship has ended, btw. You must have missed my comment about that yesterday.

Is the bible okay with the dufus cheating on HIS wife multiple times?

I absolutely would not be OK with that. It is a terrible lack of morals. But if you are going to knock Trump on that, then are you going to do likewise with Bill Clinton and Hunter Biden, or are you going to continue to drive on your one way street?

I don't know about Biden, but BC was a liar and cheater too, and was IMPEACHED for it rather than dismissing it all together like repubs have done, and that's after ignoring and dismissing his scams against old folks and consumers that was already known. Obviously repubs and the right weren't interested in morality when the elected the dufus. Continued support of this moral less liar and cheater is condone that immorality you aren't okay with.


Is your understanding of Hunter Biden based on FACTS to begin with?


Yes. He confirmed he was dating his brother's widow prior to his divorce being finalized. Not only that, but his now ex-wife said this. "Former Vice President Joe Biden's daughter-in-law accused husband Hunter Biden — now in a relationship with his late brother's widow — of using drugs and visiting hookers in divorce papers filed last year." Now if we apply your Kavanaugh standard, then he must surely be guilty since, after all, she made the allegation.


https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...icle-1.2987101 (https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hunter-biden-wife-filed-divorce-december-article-1.2987101)

If you can hold your nose at the immoral corrupt dufus, then hold your nose at Biden's son which unlike the dufus isn't running for office.



Why don't you lead by example here JL.

As I have said before, any time you can show me where I have made a false statement, I will be glad to walk it back.

You support and defend the dufus that you acknowledge has low morals, so I conclude morality was never an issue, and condemning others for immorality, and condoning others immorality is the definition of hypocrisy.

If you can hold your nose at the immoral corrupt dufus, then hold your nose at Biden's son which unlike the dufus isn't running for office.

But isn't the opposite true as well? If you can hold your nose with the Biden incident, not to mention all that went on with Mr. Obama, then you can also hold your nose with Trump. See how simple it all becomes when you employ some consistency?



You support and defend the dufus that you acknowledge has low morals, so I conclude morality was never an issue, and condemning others for immorality, and condoning others immorality is the definition of hypocrisy.

Which is, of course, exactly what you do. You condemn Trump and give Obama a free pass. Thanks for stating it so clearly.

Athos: There are several reasons that someone could be, as you say, "irrational, not focused, and swing wildly" in discussions other than being INBRED... You hurt my feelings:

Athos: You hurt my feelings with such a vulgar accusation.


Nothing personal, V7. (How could it be otherwise on an anonymous website). It was an assumption. I assume all Trump supporters are inbred. The political Republicans however are motivated by job security. They know if they follow their better selves condemning Trump, they will lose their livelihood. Money is paramount to Republicans. Far ahead of any principle which they may hold in the lurch.

You condemn Trump and give Obama a free pass.


Equating Obama and Trump is absurd. YOU are absurd. There is not a single saving grace in that monstrosity called Trump.

Obama is a decent family man who was hobbled by your obstinate refusal to treat him like any other president especially after leaving him with the most horrendous economic disaster since the Great Depression.

Obama brought us out of it and it continues to this day with Trump claiming the credit which is clearly not his.

Equating Obama and Trump is absurd. YOU are absurd. There is not a single saving grace in that monstrosity called Trump.

One of your usual, insulting rants. No facts, but plenty of personnel attack.


Obama is a decent family man who was hobbled by your obstinate refusal to treat him like any other president especially after leaving him with the most horrendous economic disaster since the Great Depression.

He was a liberal dem, so you like him. He was a great promoter of abortion. He was against gay marriage until, of course, it became political profitable to be in favor of it. He completely failed at Benghazi and then orchestrated a campaign of lying about it. His AG met secretly with BC about HC when she was under investigation and he did nothing about it. He had a scandal in the VA and another in the IRS. He did nothing about those as well. He never had anything more than mediocre economic growth and doubled the national debt. Yeah, he was just your basic great guy.

You liked his policies and I get that, but to suggest that he was a model of ethical behavior is really stretching it.

He was a liberal dem, so you like him. He was a great promoter of abortion. He was against gay marriage until, of course, it became political profitable to be in favor of it. He completely failed at Benghazi and then orchestrated a campaign of lying about it. His AG met secretly with BC about HC when she was under investigation and he did nothing about it. He had a scandal in the VA and another in the IRS. He did nothing about those as well. He never had anything more than mediocre economic growth and doubled the national debt.


This is nothing more than your typical right-wing spin which you repeat constantly and which is just as constantly rebutted, especially by talinman among others. Your capacity for lying is bottomless and your hatred of Obama and Hillary Clinton flies off the page like a great stink. Facts don't matter to you - only your adoration of the demon in the White House.

Enough rant for you?

Athos: Now that I know you consider me a TRUMP SUPPORTER and you assume all TRUMP SUPPORTERS INBRED, I guess I should feel better.....but there is one big problem: I AM NOT A TRUMP SUPPORTER!!! I am a Libertarian: I am watching all this crap unfold and HOPING that we can get some disillusioned people to come on over to the NON-ALIGNED SIDE!

This is nothing more than your typical right-wing spin which you repeat constantly and which is just as constantly rebutted, especially by talinman among others. Your capacity for lying is bottomless and your hatred of Obama and Hillary Clinton flies off the page like a great stink. Facts don't matter to you - only your adoration of the demon in the White House.

And more non-data. Just an appeal that someone else sometimes posts rebuttals. It gets very boring, especially considering that those supposed "rebuttals" amount to little more than someone saying, "I love Mr. Obama and he was a great guy."

And more non-data. Just an appeal that someone else sometimes posts rebuttals. It gets very boring, especially considering that those supposed "rebuttals" amount to little more than someone saying, "I love Mr. Obama and he was a great guy."

Did you miss it? Your someone else was/is talinman - your nemesis.

Did you miss it? Your someone else was/is talinman - your nemesis.


I like Tal a great deal. He is very candid and says what he believes. Do I see him as my "nemesis"? No. I see him as an advocate for the positions he holds. And so again, those supposed "rebuttals" amount to little more than someone saying, "I love Mr. Obama and he was a great guy."

I can respect your point of view also JL, anyone's for that matter, and disagree for my own reasons. I like you too, even though I think you are dead wrong most times, which I chalk up to misinformed, or under informed, but I can't expect you to be well informed on everything. However the comparisons you make to Obama and the dufus are erroneous to the max.

There is no comparison even if you accept the fact that humans are flawed.

I like you too, even though I think you are dead wrong most times, which I chalk up to misinformed, or under informed, but I can't expect you to be well informed on everything.

I am always open to being shown where I am misinformed.


However the comparisons you make to Obama and the dufus are erroneous to the max.

I think that's true. Trump has not lost American diplomatic personnel due to inattention to danger and then tried to cover it all up with orchestrated lying.

There was no cover up just right wing loony lies that were blown out of the water by later OFFICIAL investigations and how easily you dismiss Obama's Monday after Rose Garden address that set the record straight. That's the problem with preliminary reports that fatal week end, nobody had a grasp of the full facts because in truth the entire diplomatic corps across the globe was on full high alert. While four lives were tragically lost in the attack on the consulate you totally dismiss the efforts of the 25 to 30 who were later rescued, who fended off that attack.

Holding a grudge over a terrorist attack is almost as bad as blaming the victims and not the attackers, but of course you aren't interested in facts or truth just your own contrived narrative which I consistently REJECT!

It does serve as an example of you being GROSSLY misinformed. I have plenty more so keep it up!

I like Tal a great deal. He is very candid and says what he believes. Do I see him as my "nemesis"? No. I see him as an advocate for the positions he holds. And so again, those supposed "rebuttals" amount to little more than someone saying, "I love Mr. Obama and he was a great guy."

It's never been a question of who likes whom. It's about right and wrong.

Every position you've expressed about Obama and/or H Clinton has been a right-wing talking point. Talinman has taken you to task on every one with the facts, yet you continue to spew the falsehoods. The truth is easily available in this world of instant knowledge but you refuse to see it.

When you insist on comparing a proven liar and incompetent like Trump with Obama, you lose any credibility you might have started with. Whether current events or the Bible verse re life after death you are stuck in a morass of your own devices.

The great majority of us who abhor Trump will never understand how the likes of you can continue to support him even after three of the most disastrous years in the American presidency. It's a sad mystery.

Every position you've expressed about Obama and/or H Clinton has been a right-wing talking point. Talinman has taken you to task on every one with the facts, yet you continue to spew the falsehoods. The truth is easily available in this world of instant knowledge but you refuse to see it.

No facts. No new information. Just a fantasy land appeal to some supposed intervention by someone else. Oh well.

As to supporting Trump, I have repeatedly stated that I do not care for his big mouth and bombastic politics. When you liberal dems come up with someone better than HC, JB, or EW, then you can possibly complain and be taken seriously. In the meantime, I do like the conservative court appointees, the record breaking economy, and the fact that he seems to be able to keep our foreign diplomatic personnel alive.

No facts. No new information. Just a fantasy land appeal to some supposed intervention by someone else. Oh well.

As to supporting Trump, I have repeatedly stated that I do not care for his big mouth and bombastic politics. When you liberal dems come up with someone better than HC, JB, or EW, then you can possibly complain and be taken seriously. In the meantime, I do like the conservative court appointees, the record breaking economy, and the fact that he seems to be able to keep our foreign diplomatic personnel alive.

While breaking the laws along the way, for which he will be IMPEACHED and the senate will decide what comes of it, and then we the people decide what comes of that.

While breaking the laws along the way, for which he will be IMPEACHED and the senate will decide what comes of it, and then we the people decide what comes of that.

We'll see how that goes.

Another whistle blower has emerged and some think there may be more. This may take a while.

Another whistle blower has emerged and some think there may be more. This may take a while.

surely you don't think this is a good thing, disloyalty in the government?

You could say it's loyalty to the constitution and rule of law rather than the individual, plus how can you say squelling on possible criminal activities or wrongdoing is disloyalty?

This ain't a monarchy I don't care what the dufus and his minions think.

You could say it's loyalty to the constitution and rule of law rather than the individual, plus how can you say squelling on possible criminal activities or wrongdoing is disloyalty?

This ain't a monarchy I don't care what the dufus and his minions think.

you are saying that the individual has the right to be judge jury and executioner, but who will bring Biden to account? An american vice- president interfering in the affairs of a sovereign nation for his own benefit, well nothing new there, but accountability is necessary

You could at least look up the guy the entire western world wanted out for stealing money from Ukraine and allowing others in on the take too before you jump on the dufus talking points. Or do as JL does and blame Obama since his administration sent Biden to Ukraine to join other western nations to oust the criminals profiting on Ukrainian political disarray.

You right wing loonies just can't see how the dufus is colluding with Vlad to restore Soviet sovereignty to Ukraine? You did at least know that's what the invasion of Crimea and Donbass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine) was about don't you? I guess you're also okay with the dufus throwing our allies against ISIS under the bus for Turkish slaughter. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/07/trump-abandons-kurds-fought-isil-allows-turkish-assault-northern/)

You could at least look up the guy the entire western world wanted out for stealing money from Ukraine and allowing others in on the take too before you jump on the dufus talking points. Or do as JL does and blame Obama since his administration sent Biden to Ukraine to join other western nations to oust the criminals profiting on Ukrainian political disarray.

You right wing loonies just can't see how the dufus is colluding with Vlad to restore Soviet sovereignty to Ukraine? You did at least know that's what the invasion of Crimea and Donbass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine) was about don't you? I guess you're also okay with the dufus throwing our allies against ISIS under the bus for Turkish slaughter. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/07/trump-abandons-kurds-fought-isil-allows-turkish-assault-northern/)

The Kurds are learning what it means to trust a nutcase like Trump. He pledged undying loyalty to them in June. American foreign policy is now dedicated to Trump's personal interests - Trump Tower in Istanbul.

The Kurds are learning what it means to trust a nutcase like Trump. He pledged undying loyalty to them in June. American foreign policy is now dedicated to Trump's personal interests - Trump Tower in Istanbul.

just another american abandonment of a ME ally, nothing new here

There was no cover up just right wing loony lies that were blown out of the water by later OFFICIAL investigations and how easily you dismiss Obama's Monday after Rose Garden address that set the record straight.

So if he set the record straight in the Rose Garden by saying it was a terror attack, then why, two weeks later, did he send Susan Rice on FIVE Sunday morning news programs to loudly proclaim it was NOT a terror attack, but rather just a local response to an offensive video? Why did he do that?

So if he set the record straight in the Rose Garden by saying it was a terror attack, then why, two weeks later, did he send Susan Rice on FIVE Sunday morning news programs to loudly proclaim it was NOT a terror attack, but rather just a local response to an offensive video? Why did he do that?

First answer this: Why do you consign all human beings who ever lived and did not believe in a religion the way you do, why do you consign them to eternal punishment in hell? Why do you do that?

First answer this: Why do you consign all human beings who ever lived and did not believe in a religion the way you do, why do you consign them to eternal punishment in hell? Why do you do that?

That is really a question for Jesus to answer. He answers it in Matthew 25.

Nice try at changing the subject. If I was an Obama supporter, I'd try to change the subject as well.

If I was a dufus supporter I would be hiding under a rock. If I was an American ally, I would be hiding under a rock. If I worked for the dufus, I'd quit and find a rock to hide under. If I was a dufus defender like JL, I would change the subject to Obama and find a rock to hide under unless I knew how to duck all those rocks being chunked at him.

If I was a dufus supporter I would be hiding under a rock. If I was an American ally, I would be hiding under a rock. If I worked for the dufus, I'd quit and find a rock to hide under. If I was a dufus defender like JL, I would change the subject to Obama and find a rock to hide under unless I knew how to duck all those rocks being chunked at him.

1. I am not a Trump supporter, but I do like to give credit where credit is due, and to resist the widespread (especially on this board) prevalence of TDS.
2. I will continue to bring up Obama and all of his scandals and failures until you get honest enough to acknowledge them. You need to get rid of your "I Love Obama Dearly" bumper sticker.

1. I am not a Trump supporter, but I do like to give credit where credit is due, and to resist the widespread (especially on this board) prevalence of TDS.

That's a lie since you want to give the dufus ALL the credit, and diminish Obama's accomplishments and making up scandals that amount to BS! Debunked mostly right wing loony BS! You should examine yourself for TDS!



2. I will continue to bring up Obama and all of his scandals and failures until you get honest enough to acknowledge them. You need to get rid of your "I Love Obama Dearly" bumper sticker.

We are all familiar with that dodge to keep everybody from focusing on the outlandish words, outrageous behavior, and disingenuous selfish bully antics of the dufus. Do you even realize you've been holding your nose nearly 3 freaking years and have managed to CONVERT yourself to a blithering mouth breather?

I don't even have an I Love Obama Dearly bumper sticker! Maybe you need a DUMP THE DUFUS banner, or IMPEACH the Orange Idiot. yard sign. Or just let go of your own nose, so you can BREATH better, and don't risk asphyxiation while brushing your own teeth.

I bet you sound funny on the phone too!

That's a lie since you want to give the dufus ALL the credit, and diminish Obama's accomplishments and making up scandals that amount to BS! Debunked mostly right wing loony BS! You should examine yourself for TDS!

It is not a lie. I would be very much more satisfied with Gingrich or Pence. But Trump is wildly preferable to the current crop of losers running for the dem nomination.

And again, I will continue to bring up Mr. Obama's many scandals and failures with the hope that one day you will become an honest man.


I don't even have an I Love Obama Dearly bumper sticker! Maybe you need a DUMP THE DUFUS banner, or IMPEACH the Orange Idiot. yard sign. Or just let go of your own nose, so you can BREATH better, and don't risk asphyxiation while brushing your own teeth.

You don't need the sticker. You practically idolize the man. It is obvious from your obstinate refusal to acknowledge his failings.

You don't need the sticker. You practically idolize the man. It is obvious from your obstinate refusal to acknowledge his failings.
Yup. He always kicked their dog when he thought no one was watching. He pulled out the vegetables growing in Michelle's garden because he HATES vegetables. He'd tug on his daughter's long hair when cameras were on the family so they'd make weird faces. He'd spit at the front row of journalists during a news conference. What a jerk!

Yup. He always kicked their dog when he thought no one was watching. He pulled out the vegetables growing in Michelle's garden because he HATES vegetaables. He'd tug on his daughter's long hair when cameras were on the family so they'd make weird faces. He'd spit at the front row of journalists during a news conference. What a jerk!

Yep. Just forget all those people who died in Benghazi and the lying that followed it. Don't worry about the VA scandal and the IRS scandal. Forget about Loretta Lynch meeting secretly with BC and then his wife is just coincidentally let off the hook a few days later. And certainly pay no attention to his unflagging support of abortion, the doubling of the national debt, or the mediocre economic growth. Yeah. Nothing to see here for those who love the man so much that they are completely blind to his many faults.

Honestly, I find you guys to be amazing. I have never met people so completely committed to a political ideology that it absolutely controls every decision they make and makes it impossible to acknowledge even the slightest breath of criticism of liberal icons. It really is astonishing. I don't believe I have ever seen it this bad, and so I guess you deserve congratulations of a peculiar sort.

You mean you have never heard of the true believers?

Yep. Just forget all those people who died in Benghazi and the lying that followed it. Don't worry about the VA scandal and the IRS scandal. Forget about Loretta Lynch meeting secretly with BC and then his wife is just coincidentally let off the hook a few days later. And certainly pay no attention to his unflagging support of abortion, the doubling of the national debt, or the mediocre economic growth. Yeah. Nothing to see here for those who love the man so much that they are completely blind to his many faults.
I'm sure tal and Athos have something to say about your crazy rant.

Honestly, I find you guys to be amazing. I have never met people so completely committed to a political ideology that it absolutely controls every decision they make and makes it impossible to acknowledge even the slightest breath of criticism of liberal icons. It really is astonishing. I don't believe I have ever seen it this bad, and so I guess you deserve congratulations of a peculiar sort.
Whatchu been drinkin', Willis?

That is really a question for Jesus to answer. He answers it in Matthew 25.

Nice try at changing the subject. If I was an Obama supporter, I'd try to change the subject as well.


When you realize how absurd your belief is, you always throw it onto "Jesus". Previously you admitted it, now you skate around it. Whoever reads your inane posts - especially about Obama - should remember this equally inane/insane belief of yours and measure whatever you say against it.

It's not "changing" the subject - it is informing the subject to throw clarity on how your mind works.