The headline says it all . From the NY Times (not an alt right publication )

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/12/opinion/sunday/liberals-youre-not-as-smart-as-you-think-you-are.html



Liberals are trapped in a self-reinforcing cycle. When they use their positions in American culture to lecture, judge and disdain, they push more people into an opposing coalition that liberals are increasingly prone to think of as deplorable. That only validates their own worst prejudices about the other America.

Written by a conservative who sides with racists not because he is one, but mad at the liberals for throwing him in the same pot as them. Sounds like an excuse to keep lying with the dogs and b1tching about the fleas. Enlighten me oh great conservatives as I wonder how you can vote for a lying cheating racist and not be one?

Naw, we don't have to be smart anymore, just motivated against what we hate like conservatives are.

You proved Gerard Alexander's point . Good job.

You need to read this to understand what really happened in 2016 .

https://www.amazon.com/Great-Revolt-Populist-Coalition-Reshaping-ebook/dp/B076YZC99L/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1526246283&sr=8-1&keywords=the+great+revolt

Naw, we don't have to be smart anymore, just motivated against what we hate like conservatives are.

What turned you into a hater Tal? Did someone overturn your view of the world?

I hate lying, cheating, and bullying.

yeah; Ashtabula Ohio voted for Dukakis, Bubba twice ,Gore ,and the emperor twice by 55% before voting for Trump 57% .All those people suddenly became racist in 2016 after voting for the emperor twice before ? Or maybe the Russian helped Trump steal those votes ?

The same thing happened all over the country .

The Dems need to understand the real reason why Evita lost instead of your insulting characterizations of Trump supporters . 35 counties in Ohio alone had the same 25 point or more swing . 23 counties in Wisconsin ;32 counties in Iowa ,12 in Michigan all went from supporting the emperor to voting for Trump. Was that racist too ?

What all these places really have in common is that for the most part ,the swamp creatures that make their living ruling over us could care less about the people who live in these counties .

Colludin' Donald bought the election transferring all those payments from Cohen's pay-to-play schemes to his Russian pals who used the loot to undermine the US democratic process. Thanks, Trump, you bum!

I hate lying, cheating, and bullying.

Well Yes, me too, no one needs that. However both sides of politics do that one way or another

Well Yes, me too, no one needs that. However both sides of politics do that one way or another


The right-wing does it enormously more than the other side. Take it from me, an independent, who has voted both sides over the years depending on the issue, not on the party.

Starting with Clinton's joke of an impeachment, the right wing began its slide to never-never land. Then on to repeal of Glass-Steagel (Democrats colluding) and Bush squandering the healthy financial position he inherited by cutting taxes for the rich (sound familiar?) and debt financing a criminal war in Iraq based on faulty information (or, worse, deliberately false info).

Eight years of Republican Bush mismanagement brought us directly into the Great Recession, the likes of which had not been seen in generations. Eight years of Democrat Obama's administration began and continued a recovery that continues to this day, and for which Colludin' Donald takes credit. A simple look at the numbers will belie the false claims of Trump taking credit.

Then there's the swamp Trump has created with his various crooked appointees. Reptiles who are dedicated to dismantling the very agencies they were appointed to head. Never in the history of the US has an administration been so corrupt. These creeps are transferring the taxes of Americans directly into their pockets. A $43,000 phone booth! Indeed!

So, no, it's not both sides doing it one way or another. It's the Republican Right who have given new meaning to corruption and incompetence.

I have only touched on the tip of the iceberg. It would take pages to list all the malfeasance of this gang of criminals.

A voice crying in the wilderness

yeah; Ashtabula Ohio voted for Dukakis, Bubba twice ,Gore ,and the emperor twice by 55% before voting for Trump 57% .All those people suddenly became racist in 2016 after voting for the emperor twice before ? Or maybe the Russian helped Trump steal those votes ?

The same thing happened all over the country .

The Dems need to understand the real reason why Evita lost instead of your insulting characterizations of Trump supporters . 35 counties in Ohio alone had the same 25 point or more swing . 23 counties in Wisconsin ;32 counties in Iowa ,12 in Michigan all went from supporting the emperor to voting for Trump. Was that racist too ?

What all these places really have in common is that for the most part ,the swamp creatures that make their living ruling over us could care less about the people who live in these counties .

I never implied all those that voted for The Dufus are racists but have stated Trumpism is a coalition that includes racists. An important distinction. Yes include the desperate and those in the rust belt who have rightfully become despondent caught in the changing tide of technological transition, and those that have passed over the obvious moral and ethical flaws of the Dufus, to support him. It was as much a slap against the established republican party as it was against Hillary.

The right, and Alt right were starving for the red meat The Dufus throws at them, so of course they slobber at his feet but they make wake up when their tax cut get eaten up by rising prices, and the feckless foreign trade policy that will bit all of US in the butt.


I asked...who votes for a lying, cheating, racist?

Other racists, the desperate, the disenfranchised. Unfortunately, The Dufus has conned them, but they wont know that until their pockets are empty.

The right-wing does it enormously more than the other side. Take it from me, an independent, who has voted both sides over the years depending on the issue, not on the party.

Starting with Clinton's joke of an impeachment, the right wing began its slide to never-never land. Then on to repeal of Glass-Steagel (Democrats colluding) and Bush squandering the healthy financial position he inherited by cutting taxes for the rich (sound familiar?) and debt financing a criminal war in Iraq based on faulty information (or, worse, deliberately false info).

Eight years of Republican Bush mismanagement brought us directly into the Great Recession, the likes of which had not been seen in generations. Eight years of Democrat Obama's administration began and continued a recovery that continues to this day, and for which Colludin' Donald takes credit. A simple look at the numbers will belie the false claims of Trump taking credit.

Then there's the swamp Trump has created with his various crooked appointees. Reptiles who are dedicated to dismantling the very agencies they were appointed to head. Never in the history of the US has an administration been so corrupt. These creeps are transferring the taxes of Americans directly into their pockets. A $43,000 phone booth! Indeed!

So, no, it's not both sides doing it one way or another. It's the Republican Right who have given new meaning to corruption and incompetence.

I have only touched on the tip of the iceberg. It would take pages to list all the malfeasance of this gang of criminals.

Couldn't have said it better.

umm the repeal of Glass Steagel was signed by Bubba in 1999 . Bubba still says it's repeal had nothing to do with the financial crisis of 2008 .

umm the repeal of Glass Steagel was signed by Bubba in 1999 . Bubba still says it's repeal had nothing to do with the financial crisis of 2008 .


Umm yourself.

If you want to reply to what I write, please first read what I wrote.

1- I included the Democrats in the repeal of Glass-Steagal.
2- Clinton's comments on Glass-Steagal are irrelevant.
3- If you are implying Clinton's position is mine, I did not write anything like that in my post.

The fed and the big banks had repealed Glass Steagall long before Clinton got in office by deregulation and loopholes that allowed the takeover of small banks by the big wall Street crew. A classic example of an end run around the law. The real cause of the crisis was the PRODUCTS that some banks came up with that the law FAILED to regulate.

Don't even get me started on history is repeating itself right now as we speak, amidst the greatest extraction of wealth we have seen so far. And this isn't bi partisan by any stretch. Just my two cents.

The real cause of the crisis was the PRODUCTS that some banks came up with that the law FAILED to regulate. NAH the real problem was the unintended consequences of liberal feel good policies like laws for home ownership for people who can't afford to own homes . You can thank guys like il duce Andrew Cuomo for that .

I will ignore the name calling, and respectfully submit that everyone that pays rent can benefit from homeownership and the sand in the wheels are the greedy capitalists that feel entitled to make money from it with all kinds of tricks and traps they call requirements.


Some profit is understandable and expected but many times it's a down right swindle. That's what crashed the global markets.

everyone that pays rent can benefit from homeownership maybe they can benefit and maybe not . The growing trend here is the new generation has no desired to be tied down by home ownership. But that is not what I said . Regardless of the benefit ownership brings ;they could NOT afford it. The different instruments the financial industry created was attempts to comply with regulations created to increase home ownership. The libs with their feel good polices did a disservice to both the people who got suckered into buying homes they could not afford ;and at the same time planted the seeds for the financial crisis.

Not surprised you defend your greedy capitalist heroes that caused the financial meltdown, and snookered millions of people. Sure blame it on the liberals. That's also the right wing MO! If the banks have played it straight and HONEST, we wouldn't be here.

for 8 years the emperor had the Dept of Justice at his disposal . Why weren't the bank managers frog marched ? You know he would've ordered it if he had a case against them .He was the one who as a community organizer pressured them to make mortgages for people who financially were not eligible for them .

Yes we get it, Obama reverse engineered the GFC, Social engineering is bad. Banks make financial decisions, investors make financial decisions, but the real evil is being able to hedge the result of your bad financial decisions and keep the result of this risk off your balance sheet. This is not a political decision. This is fraud

I know family members who have been given mortgages that today they wouldn't get because the rules have tightened. These are hard working people who strive to meet their obligations. You are saying they shouldn't have been given the chance. They should be protected from the evil of foreclosure, from the evil of being pressured by banks and finance companies when things go wrong. Whereas I say the bank executives who made bad decisions should be fired and their over stuffed bonuses recovered

Could YOU keep your house if YOU lost YOUR job? Had your hours cut? It was the bank's plan not the government's that decided to foreclose instead of refinance. It was the bank's that decided to over value their mortgage bundles not the government's. Sure the FEC didn't say a darn thing, nor did state regulators. They whole thing was the banks bankrupted themselves and even now try to rollback the rule that banks have to keep their own reserves so as not to leave taxpayers on the hook again. It was like a Trump casino, borrow to the hilt and declare bankruptcy.

Covering for greedy out of control bankers though and blaming consumers who fell for the variable interest rate and deferred balloon payments scam is par for the course for conservatives, and wingers on the right.

Tal it is easy to blame the banks, but the problem is deeper, it goes to the heart of what drives the economics, the idea that the shareholders have a greater right than other stakeholders, this is the pillar of the capitalist system and it is wrong. The banks had a free hand because of poor regulation and even poorer regulators. And the corrupt government used the GFC as an excuse to print money and it wasn't the conservatives who were doing it. Don't blame Trump for this, he came long after and he has his own agenda

You were doing great until you broke it down to blaming conservatives or liberals. Step back and take a larger view and you won't see conservatives or liberals, but old fashion capitalism run amok.

old fashion capitalism run amok.

So your contention is liberals love capitalism just as much as conservatives. This being so why do liberals (socialists) work to control the sources of production. They do it to control people and to control the money flow so they can spend, spend, spend on their favourite things. Infrastructure good, eh, Tal. If so how come BO didn't spend money on infrastructure. The liberals want everything to be free, education, healthcare, urban transport, abortion but capitalism won't provide these things without someone paying the bill, capitalism bad

As usual you are misinformed because Obamas infrastructure package(S) were paid for and rejected by the republican congress because it required rich guys to help fund it. His first proposal was in 2009, and he kept proposing a plan every year after that, rejected every time.

$478B Infrastructure Bill Blocked by Senate GOP | The Fiscal Times (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/03/25/478B-Infrastructure-Bill-Blocked-Senate-GOP)

And

Governors Join Obama in Infrastructure Spending Plea | The Fiscal Times (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/01/06/Governors-Join-Obama-Infrastructure-Spending-Plea)

So don't tell me about irresponsible spending of liberals and pet projects after conservatives just gave rich guys a huge tax cut that added trillions to the deficit AND no infrastructure plan. The FACTS are out there, so what's your excuse to showing how ill informed you are while you flap your gums?

Don't get mad if I call you on it either! Nothing personal. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as it's practiced with discipline through clear structuring process and enough flexibility that allows for adjustments when needed, and is FAIR and practical!

What's wrong with that?

umm 2009 there was a $825 billion
The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act . I remember those shovel ready jobs and the huge road signs thanking


the emperor for filling pot holes .
https://pumabydesign001.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/stimulus-sign-new-york.jpg (https://pumabydesign001.com/arra-road-sign-american-recovery-and-reinvestment-act/)

As usual you are misinformed because Obamas infrastructure package(S) were paid for and rejected by the republican congress because it required rich guys to help fund it. His first proposal was in 2009, and he kept proposing a plan every year after that, rejected every time.

$478B Infrastructure Bill Blocked by Senate GOP | The Fiscal Times (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/03/25/478B-Infrastructure-Bill-Blocked-Senate-GOP)

And

Governors Join Obama in Infrastructure Spending Plea | The Fiscal Times (http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2015/01/06/Governors-Join-Obama-Infrastructure-Spending-Plea)

So don't tell me about irresponsible spending of liberals and pet projects after conservatives just gave rich guys a huge tax cut that added trillions to the deficit AND no infrastructure plan. The FACTS are out there, so what's your excuse to showing how ill informed you are while you flap your gums?

Don't get mad if I call you on it either! Nothing personal. There is nothing wrong with capitalism as long as it's practiced with discipline through clear structuring process and enough flexibility that allows for adjustments when needed, and is FAIR and practical!

What's wrong with that?

You know Tal some people just haven't learned the art of the possible. They go for the big flashy programs that will get votes rather than getting agreement on things that are acceptable to all. You want to hide behind programs that weren't politically acceptable or are payoffs

umm 2009 there was a $825 billion
The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act . I remember those shovel ready jobs and the huge road signs thanking


the emperor for filling pot holes .
https://pumabydesign001.files.wordpress.com/2010/08/stimulus-sign-new-york.jpg (https://pumabydesign001.com/arra-road-sign-american-recovery-and-reinvestment-act/)


Not just potholes. Maybe you should reread the bill and it's provisions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009


You know Tal some people just haven't learned the art of the possible. They go for the big flashy programs that will get votes rather than getting agreement on things that are acceptable to all. You want to hide behind programs that weren't politically acceptable or are payoffs

Read above post. Something is working pretty well here Clete, despite the stuff you're talking about and a lying, cheating, bullying Dufus at the head and his sycophants protecting him as his goons try to loot the country.

You need to get past Trump here Tal and come to understand that the Obama/Clinton sycophants are no different. They Had their turn at looting the country. The big problem you seem to have is the speech doesn't translate into action or if it does the action doesn't have the desired outcome.

Once again it is difficult to stay focused on draining the swamp when you are up to your arse in alligators

http://dkdkzone.blogspot.com.au/2013/01/when-you-are-up-to-your--in.html

There has been a confused mess among the right-wing here in these posts. Two examples:

There is a near unanimous opinion among economists of every stripe that the ARRA was a resounding success. A cursory look at the economic charts with a bit of research will easily prove that. Yet, the right continues to disparage it primarily because Obama gets most of the credit and, God forbid, "socialism" should get credit for anything. Talk about having blinders on!

The Great Recession - The most dismissed and strangest reason for the financial crisis was to blame the homeowners who were bamboozled by the bank loan officers into taking mortgages the banks themselves offered!!!! The blame went as far back as the Community Reinvestment Act - a 40-year-old attempt to get around bank's redlining. No one could explain why the CRA did not cause a Great Recession anytime during the prior 40 years when it was in existence! As usual and even today, elements of the right-wing will do or say anything that is not remotely based in fact.

Continuing - the banks then immediately sold those mortgages to the investment bank crowd on Wall Street. They got their big fees for the sale even tho the mortgages were toxic. The investment banks packaged them into securities and sold them throughout the world.

How do toxic mortgages get sold throughout the world, you may ask. Why, be granting them triple A ratings and creating fancy names like "Collateralized Debt Obligations", CDOs. The investment banks (Goldman Sachs, et al) PAID the rating agencies (D&B, Standard and Poor, et al) huge fees for the triple A ratings. One criminal element dealing with another criminal element. These facts are not disputed! This was the primary cause of the Great Recession.

Lacking this, there would have been no CDOs, no market for toxic loans, no toxic loans themselves, and no recession.

When the Obama Justice Department investigated, the novel defense from the rating agencies was that "opinions" (rating the toxic bonds triple A - the highest rating) are protected by the First Amendment, an incredible defense that should have been challenged.

However, AG Eric Holder bailed and everybody was satisfied with fines. $500 million is a drop in the bucket to these banks, and the real perps, the human crooks, hid behind the corporate veil. They should have had their houses in the Hamptons seized and spent several years in the slammer. Nothing deters like a long prison sentence. Btw, the obscene Street bonuses continued all through the Recession.

Similar financial shenanigans go on today. The banks, once characterized as "too big to fail" are even BIGGER today! The lads in the Harvard MBA program and the like are dying to get to Wall Street so they can get their fingers in the pie. They know nothing will happen if they get caught.

The US system of capitalism modified by sensible regulation (e.g., "socialism") is a good one, but needs better enforcement with stiffer penalties for wrongdoing. Without effective penalties, it's a house of cards waiting to collapse again as it does periodically.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikecollins/2015/07/14/the-big-bank-bailout/#4f92f5d92d83

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/bailout-highly-profitable-for-taxpayers-when-you-look-at-the-right-numbers/2015/01/01/dc2a05a6-8fa5-11e4-a412-4b735edc7175_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.0f08c60e8555

From the beginning

https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list

And over time

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/20/business/us-signals-end-of-bailouts-of-automakers-and-wall-street.html

Taxpayers made $52 billion on Geithner's bailouts (http://money.cnn.com/2014/05/09/news/economy/bailout-profit/index.html)

And

https://money.usnews.com/investing/articles/2017-01-19/financial-crisis-bailouts-have-earned-taxpayers-billions

And this interesting article

Bank bailouts: Why the US made a profit and the UK won’t (http://fromtone.com/bank-bailouts-why-the-us-made-a-profit-and-the-uk-wont/)

I know wingers won't read these links, so holler like you usually do about everything. The truth of the matter, Obama left The Dufus better than Bush left him.

I know wingers won't read these links, so holler like you usually do about everything. The truth of the matter, Obama left The Dufus better than Bush left him.

It must have been the only time in history the left didn't spend all the money in the treasury, but wait, they did

If you cannot prove what you say, you are just hollering! Which is exactly what I said you would do.

It must have been the only time in history the left didn't spend all the money in the treasury, but wait, they did


And got every penny back, and then some, all while saving the entire planet from financial disaster.

Of course, you and yours will not read the excellent links provided by Talinman because then you will be forced to admit the effectiveness of "socialism" - the great bugaboo in your fantasy world.

No Tal it's called pot stirring


And got every penny back, and then some, all while saving the entire planet from financial disaster.

Of course, you and yours will not read the excellent links provided by Talinman because then you will be forced to admit the effectiveness of "socialism" - the great bugaboo in your fantasy world.

You do know you are confusing me with someone else, but then maybe you don't care. The left has not saved the planet they have supported a myth


You do know you are confusing me with someone else, but then maybe you don't care. The left has not saved the planet they have supported a myth. I thing you should study the outcomes of socialism, Nazi, Fascist, communism. The one things socialists are good at is killing people

I call it crap stirring because you have no FACTS, so you holler your crap! You better add plenty of sugar in case you have to eat your own crap. Careful though because it might stick to your walls if thrown.


No Tal it's called pot stirring



You do know you are confusing me with someone else, but then maybe you don't care. The left has not saved the planet they have supported a myth


You do know you are confusing me with someone else, but then maybe you don't care. The left has not saved the planet they have supported a myth. I thing you should study the outcomes of socialism, Nazi, Fascist, communism. The one things socialists are good at is killing people


All examples of thugs, criminal, and dictators. Seems to be much different using the democratic model like in Canada, or parts of Europe.

All examples of thugs, criminal, and dictators. Seems to be much different using the democratic model like in Canada, or parts of Europe.

In any of this the standout is Canada, but Europe might have emerged from the dark ages, we will see what happens when to germans go down