Not surprisingly, Trump has entirely missed the point of deterrence. Retaliation is promised as a response to prevent the other side from ATTACKING.

NOT when the other side threatens. With his incredibly stupid "fire and fury" comment, Trump has put this nation in the desperate position of retaliating when the North Koreans THREATEN, which they have been doing for over 50 years. Trump has drawn the red line in the wrong place, and the world trembles at what this madman may do. If he backs down, he encourages North Korea. If he follows through, it's Armegeddon.

Previous administrations with their so-called "strategic patience" have managed to avoid a resumption of war all those years. Not a bad strategy. Trump, in a single ill-advised moronic comment, has undermined decades of attempted diplomacy - at the precise moment when North Korea has achieved nuclear capacity, however minimal.

It is time for Trump to go, before it's too late.

What do you expect from a moron who has no more intelligence than Kim

yeah it sucks when a President draws a red line you know he won't enforce. History will judge if 'strategic patience' was a better policy than premptive removal of the threat before it reached critical mass . Remember when Bubba told us the crisis was over and the NORKS would never get Nukes ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TcbU5jAavw


How did that work out ? If we are not at a tipping point ,we are damn near close to it . You can't blame herr Donald for this crisis . All the diplomatic pablum of Sec States for over 20 years has not done a thing to resolve this .Maybe some tough talk is what lil Kim needs to keep him up at night .

.Maybe some tough talk is what lil Kim needs to keep him up at night .

Dump just talks tough because he is up at night, if he would just get some sleep maybe we can all get some sleep

hmmmm Trump threatens fire and fury ........the NORKs release a hostage .

North Korea releases Canadian pastor Hyeon Soo Lim - CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/09/asia/north-korea-canada-pastor-hyeon-soo-lim/index.html)


hmmmm Trump threatens fire and fury ........the NORKs release a hostage .

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/09/asia/north-korea-canada-pastor-hyeon-soo-lim/index.html

Well, release of a Canadian hostage means nothing to Trump but it may mean North Koreans think all north americans look alike, or it may mean they think it gives them leverage with the UN. Kim may be confused about the UN, he may think it means him

hmmmm Trump threatens fire and fury ........the NORKs release a hostage .

North Korea releases Canadian pastor Hyeon Soo Lim - CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/09/asia/north-korea-canada-pastor-hyeon-soo-lim/index.html)


hmmmm Trump threatens fire and fury ........the NORKs release a hostage .

North Korea releases Canadian pastor Hyeon Soo Lim - CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/09/asia/north-korea-canada-pastor-hyeon-soo-lim/index.html)


The process was well underway BEFORE Trump's comment.

Trump's comment came in the midst of his much ballyhooed conference on the opioid epidemic.

His solution to the epidemic? JUST SAY NO!!! Yes, the same as the mid-1980s solution that never worked. Trump completely ignored the PRESENT crisis requiring a solution for those presently addicted.

Whenever he speaks on an issue of substance, his lack of knowledge betrays him, usually resulting in his spewing out lies. Whether domestic or international, Trump can be trusted to say something really STUPID.

In the other present crisis, he warned that he gave orders on day one to beef up the US nuclear arsenal. HE DID NOTHING OF THE SORT !!!

Obama, his self-declared nemesis, gave the order to review the nuclear arsenal which will take several years. Trump is blissfully unaware of that FACT. Or maybe not. He will do everything in his power to take down Obama - whom he hates with a passion - or co-opt Obama's legacy when it's something he likes.

This presidency is nothing but GET OBAMA. Nothing else matters to Trump.

This presidency is nothing but GET OBAMA. Nothing else matters to Trump.

Obama is yesterday, get over it. No one has the right answer to Kim but shouting at him is counterproductive. Maybe the US needs to launch an ICBM in the direction NK unannounced which goes higher and faster and further, landing accurately 200 miles from NK and then say is one of yours missing. Obviously B1 overflights don't send the right message, supercarrier task forces don't send the right message. One thing is sure, midnight rantings on twitter are counterproductive

No one has the right answer ;but are we supposed to ignore that he is threatening a nuke attack on Guam ? Tell me what would happen to the leader of Australian if Kim threatened a launch against one of your territories and the warning was ignored until Kim pulled the trigger ?

Trump completely ignored the PRESENT crisis requiring a solution for those presently addicted.
And too many of those opiod addicts are patients in pain who appealed to their doctors for relief and were innocently prescribed opioids that were pushed by a greedy Big Pharma.

No one has the right answer ;but are we supposed to ignore that he is threatening a nuke attack on Guam ? Tell me what would happen to the leader of Australian if Kim threatened a launch against one of your territories and the warning was ignored until Kim pulled the trigger ?

Tom I know Kim can't be ignored, and he has threatened us too, but the threat against Guam is an escalation, although the intention isn't to hit Guam apparently and he didn't specifically say he would use nuclear warheads, after all if he did that he would deplete his arsenal. You seriously have to wonder if Kim has a death wish. All his bluster is typical terrorist rhetoric but he is half a century too late, we are over it.

I think the world is going about it the wrong way, sanctions don't work so reverse the flow and flood NK with cheap consumer goods and cheap food. Demonstrate how much better life is outside NK, there are plenty of surpluses, I bet Kim is just hanging out for a big Mac or some KFC and his people certainly are. Set up export industries there like Bangladesh, a little noxious industry or two like tanning, etc

I think the world is going about it the wrong way, sanctions don't work so reverse the flow and flood NK with cheap consumer goods and cheap food. Demonstrate how much better life is outside NK, there are plenty of surpluses, I bet Kim is just hanging out for a big Mac or some KFC and his people certainly are. Set up export industries there like Bangladesh, a little noxious industry or two like tanning, etc
That would be my strategy -- like the Bible says, "heap burning coals upon his head." i.e., overwhelm him with kindness.

I think Kim has had enough hugs. So have his "friends", and ENABLERS! Let's face it, He couldn't do what he is doing without plenty of help and I hope Dufus knows that and for once does more than just lie, and talk crap.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Xi, and Vlad weren't calling the little fat b@stard every night and egging him on.

That would be my strategy -- like the Bible says, "heap burning coals upon his head." i.e., overwhelm him with kindness.

My thoughts exactly, offer to solve some of his important problems, give him some tractors, seeds. although the people in NK are probably so hungry they would eat them.



Tal;
It wouldn't surprise me at all if Xi, and Vlad weren't calling the little fat b@stard every night and egging him on.

You know, Tal, you are probably right but who is calling that fat b@stard in the White House every night and egging him on?

I wonder what happened to talk softly and carry a big stick as distinct from shout loudly and throw rocks on your neighbours roof

I think Kim has had enough hugs. So have his "friends", and ENABLERS! Let's face it, He couldn't do what he is doing without plenty of help and I hope Dufus knows that and for once does more than just lie, and talk crap.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Xi, and Vlad weren't calling the little fat b@stard every night and egging him on.

The Iranians are funding the research and they will get the fruit of the NORK's labor . You see ;when Bush mentioned the 'Axis of Evil ' he had a point .The common denominator was that the 3 rogue nations were in pursuit of WMD . 2/3 of the axis is still developing them and are close ;if not beyond, the point of no return. Bush should receive more credit for trying to nip the dangers in the bud before they became harder to solve.The JFKerry type of strategic patience and appeasement diplomacy is what has been the abject failure .

When Democrats threaten 'fire and fury ' ..................

Bubba Clintoon:

On his weekend visit to South Korea, President Clinton warned that if North Korea developed and used an atomic weapon, "we would quickly and overwhelmingly retaliate.""It would mean the end of their country as they know it," he said.

CLINTON'S WARNING IRKS NORTH KOREA - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/1993/07/13/world/clinton-s-warning-irks-north-korea.html)

I don't agree Tom at all, as you keep talking, but appeasement it's not since the only alternative to talking, besides sanctions is too blow Kim away, and that's not good. The gripe I have in this whole mess is not hitting Putin in his friggin' nose, and not choking China for not doing MORE. That's the failure of past policy.
,
Yeah maybe a trade war would have followed, and the money grubbers would be throwing a fit, but so what? If the Chinese won't control their stupid pet, somebody will have too! It's a very complex problem, and it's Trumps problem now, despite his loud mouth condemnation of what's been tried by past presidents.

e's always trying to pass the buck, and quick to blame others. He DA man now and he better act like one instead of being a whiny BEETCH! I can forgive you for Bush a little, but NOT for the Dufus you guys have elected this time. It's all republican fault for all the crap that happens after Jan. 20th.

This once again is an american problem. It isn't a Chinese problem, it isn't a Russian problem. Kim is not shouting at China, he is not shouting a Russia, he is shouting at someone half a world away. Trump needs to get this. This is as I have said before a Mouse that Roared situation. Like the Wizard of Oz, Kim is standing behind a curtain and projecting an image, and Trump has been taken in, giving credence to Kim's threats which are probably for home consumption. Trump should understand this posturing, after all he rode the election on it

Hitler was the mouse that marched into the Rhineland . sigh ...history ;rinse and repeat .

Hitler was the mouse that marched into the Rhineland . sigh ...history ;rinse and repeat .

So you think Kim will march into South Korea, The Rhineland was not defended, South Korea is. Kim is no Hitler, he is a petty dictator more like El Duce. Kim has been told, make a mistake and you are on your own

The ignorance of the lefties it what rattles the world. It's their limitless ignorance that causes wars and general trouble everywhere.

Incidentally it's your hero Bill Clinton that gave them a reactor to the Pillsborouh Dough boys father, and what exactly did your other hero Obummer accomplish in 8 long years? Didn't hear you ranting then.

Don't think you are talking to me but know that I am no friend of the Clintons or the Obama's. I don't like the left anymore than I like the right and the likes of Bush and Trump. These people are all exploiters.

The point is that Hilter in 1936 was not the Hitler of 1939 . He was weak and could've been easily defeated if the allied nations had enforced the terms of Versailles . They allowed him to build up to the point he became a threat .Kim may be a petty unstable dictator ...but we have allowed that regime to get to the point where they can be a threat to millions of people in the region ,and perhaps the western parts of the US .

What should we have done, or been doing?

You should have made NK your friend rather than you enemy in the same way you dealt with China

They had their chance, and really so has China. Trump has said his piece and needs to shut up. China is NO friend. They are capitalist just like everybody else.

They had their chance, and really so has China. Trump has said his piece and needs to shut up. China is NO friend. They are capitalist just like everybody else.

Let me explain this. China is not your enemy unless you choose to make them your enemy, your trade with them interlocks your economies. But trading with them doesn't mean they are not entitled to trade with others, and they trade with NK. China is not a capitalist nation, they are communist exploiting capitalism in as much as they have allowed western investment to a certain extent. Communism is a natural for China, for centuries they have had centralist rule. You cannot hold China responsible for NK, developments there have taken a very seriel path

I agree that Trump needs to shut up and it goes without saying so does Kim, neither one is productive. How a man like Trump could have lived so long and not have common sense is beyond me

China has helped North Korea develop its military in all phase for many decades and the fact they are communist has nothing to do with the geo politics other than keeping NK as a viable buffer for western encroachment. They have total control over the actions of NK and want them to have nukes. They are the ones who installed the NK'n government into power in the first place, and they are the power that keeps Kim in power now.

.

China is not your enemy unless you choose to make them your enemy and you accept all their sovereignty violations ,treaty violations ,territorial violations ,their theft of technology and on and on . Tell India they are China's enemy because China provoked them . Tell the Philippines ,and just about any other neighbor of them.

and you accept all their sovereignty violations ,treaty violations ,territorial violations ,their theft of technology and on and on . Tell India they are China's enemy because China provoked them . Tell the Philippines ,and just about any other neighbor of them.

No, I don't have to accept anything and the same could be said of the US. India is a different case they actually have a contested border and shots fired, they have a common sense approach of not escalating a conflict. Tom, I understand what is possible and therefore what is needed is cool heads. Yes the US could take NK out in a nuclear blast but the consequences even for the US are emmense. If Kim attacks you then we expect you to react

the contested border is land they plundered from Bhutan .Simply stated ;if China takes control of the "disputed " territory around India's Siliguri Corridor ,they can cut off India from it's northeastern states . The current crisis emerged because the Chinese are building a road in Bhutan close to the Siliguri Corridor so they can move troops into the area quicker .

Hello:

The tipping point came when he GOT a bomb.. Which one of the 10 or so presidents we've had since then DIDN'T do anything??? I'll tell ya.. NONE of 'em, and SOME of 'em were Republicans.. So, WHO let him get nukes is academic.

Since he HAS them, we either accept that he's a member of the nuclear club, or start WW III over it. Talking softly and carrying a big stick hasn't worked for 50 years.. So, MAYBE Trumps bluster will do the trick.. I'm willing to let him try. It can't get much worse.

excon

Since he HAS them, we either accept that he's a member of the nuclear club, or start WW III over it. Talking softly and carrying a big stick hasn't worked for 50 years.. So, MAYBE Trumps bluster will do the trick.. I'm willing to let him try. It can't get much worse.

excon

Ex, Trump's bluster only makes the situation, any situation, worse. He should choose his words more carefully, you can present the same message in a different way

Any preemptive strike on NKorea, is just as stupid as them attacking anybody including SKorea. Did a war start when the Israeli's bombed an Iranian nuclear facility? Just asking.

Ex, Trump's bluster only makes the situation, any situation, worse.Hello clete:

Kim BACKED down.. Is it because Trump called his bluff?? Look.. I HATE that orange bastard, but after 50 years of being "diplomatic", I woulda sent Kim the same message..

Of course, that's why I'm NOT president..

excon

Even a broken clock is right twice a day, and I have to agree Trump should have told Kim he would get his a$$ kicked if he attacked any of America's peeps. The Chinese told Kim he was on his own if he attacked anybody, so the ball is in Kim's court. You think he's a fool or what?

He shoots stuff in the water, we fly over his head with our stuff. The little dog better stay on his own porch when the big dog comes around.

In the meantime his nuke and missile program progresses to the point of no return . What would I do ?

Support this organization for one thing .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighters_for_a_Free_North_Korea

My way doesn't/hasn't stopped his progress. Neither will/has yours Tom, nor have the people of NKorea made a bit of difference. Looks like Kim will get nukes. You can live in fear until he decides to blow your a$$ away, or you can just live.

NO the world can live in fear because Non-proliferation no longer existsIt's not that the Kim's of the world can take shots at us. It's that they can take shots at other countries who will have no choice but to develop their own as a deterrent . 196 counties ,many of them failed states ,and even non-state actors all possessing them . Think about that . Yeah I'll be stoic from now on .


But we can be tranquil and thankful and proud
For man's been endowed with a mushroom-shaped cloud
And we know for certain that some lovely day
Someone will set the spark off
And we will all be blown away!! 'The Merry Minuet '

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvs_qTnUHMI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDFqoReof6A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frAEmhqdLFs

China needs to put a leash on it's pet. A muzzle would be nice too. Maybe a few muzzles on some right wing pets is needed here too.

Seems Trump knows how to respond when things so in the right direction he is learning you catch more flies with honey


China needs to put a leash on it's pet. A muzzle would be nice too. Maybe a few muzzles on some right wing pets is needed here too.

Tal I don't think you have a muzzle big enough for Trump, but the lack of sound over the last few days has been welcomed

Sure we do, but he surrounds himself with coward and sycophants.

You all should pay a little more attention to what Ex says. He was on the front like in 1962 when we last faced off with guns and bombs pointed over the issue of a rogue state and loony leader of that state having access to nukes . Castro was the Kim ;a crackpot caudillo who was (I'll be generous ) difficult to measure.
The US was prepared for war ;Russia was prepared for war . But neither side wanted it and that is the only reason we did not come to blows . What we did not know at the time was that Castro was encouraging the Russians to use the missiles they had placed in Cuba . He wanted that war . Kennedy somberly laid out the reality to the American people what was at stake . It was more likely that a spark would ignite WWIII than not .We did not know that a Russian sub had our fleet in it's cross hairs .We did not know that the Russians deployed tactical nukes near GITMO .But he spelled out what we did know and what was at stake . (no I don't think herr Donald is up to the moment ....that was the main reason I did not vote for him)

Does Kim want to avoid war ? Unknown . Should we take that chance ? He appears to be reckless in his testing ;firing over neighbor's land and territory . He has also provoked incidents against SK that have led to loss of life . His infatuation with nukes surpasses the 12ers in Tehran.
So how long do we live with this threat ? Does anyone have any evidence that China can reign him in ? When do we move ? He has according to reports the ability to miniaturize nukes to fit on rockets . He has MIRV .From what I can tell ;the only thing he has not developed yet is the capability to have his rockets reenter the atmosphere . So for now his rockets only have the capacity to reach ..... oh maybe Seattle .
The Chinese have taken the public position that they will remain neutral ONLY if Kim strikes first .
So do we wait for the opening salvo ?
I don't think so.

I joked around and said we should all stoically incinerate . But that is not really the answer . The Kim regime has answered strategic patience by plowing ahead and gleefully ignoring the carrot gestures .

It is in our national interest to remove Kim and disarm him . It has to be done with or without the Chinese approval .
But we should first attempt to get their approval or assistance . How ? By assuring them that we will not be into nation building . We will tell them that we will not support any attempt by SK to reunite the peninsula . We will not attempt to 'democratize ' the NORKS . We will instead agree that the Chinese can install their own puppet person to run the country .
I hope that is enough . This gordian knot cannot hang over us for long .

I think Tillerson has pretty much said the same thing, but if we haven't been preparing for the day a fool would be armed with a weapon of mass destruction and uses it, then we are fools. Hope for the best, plan for the worst?

I start with a short leash on our own FOOL-in-chief!

but if we haven't been preparing for the day a fool would be armed with a weapon of mass destruction and uses it, then we are fools.
I remind you what the left's reaction was when Reagan said " What if free people could live secure in the knowledge that their security did not rest upon the threat of instant U.S. retaliation to deter a Soviet attack, that we could intercept and destroy strategic ballistic missiles before they reached our own soil or that of our allies?I know this is a formidable, technical task, one that may not be accomplished before the end of this century. Yet, current technology has attained a level of sophistication where it's reasonable for us to begin this effort. It will take years, probably decades of effort on many fronts. There will be failures and setbacks, just as there will be successes and breakthroughs. And as we proceed, we must remain constant in preserving the nuclear deterrent and maintaining a solid capability for flexible response. But isn't it worth every investment necessary to free the world from the threat of nuclear war? We know it is."



Oh how he was ridiculed !!! But since 1983 there has been real strides in missile defense systems . We have not achieved close to the goal of a invulnerable missile shield . But let me tell you . The Chinese do not like the fact that we've deployed THAAD in South Korea. We could probably use that as leverage towards our aim .

I didn't ridicule Reagan for his "star wars" ideas, or a few others (tax policy collaboration with his democratic Senate), but don't put it past China and Russia getting their proxies to test our systems.