I saw some people post the most horrific, racist things, sometimes even lies about refugees on their Facebooks.

Because I know those people, I thought that saying nothing would be wrong. So I just pointed out the inconsistenties and never called them racist or anything, but all that that led to, was that they unfriended me.

I don't regret that, I don't want to be friends with racist people, but I would prefer to reach out to them in an effective way, because I am really afraid that the things they post can lead to violence against refugees, especially now that they unfriended me for pointing out the inconsistencies.

What is the best way to deal with this problem?

You can't, it would have to be on an international level and since you are not in that category it would be an impossibility unless you keep hammering at it in social media.

You can't, it would have to be on an international level and since you are not in that category it would be an impossibility unless you keep hammering at it in social media.

Thank you. I already thought so, but I needed the assurance. You can't hammer anymore if someone unfriends you. I just hope that my former Facebook friends aren't the ones vandalising places where refugees arrive.

Refugee is a very misused term these days. Illegal immigrant is the correct term in most cases, very few are actually refugees. And having seen first hand what has been happening in Europe and the crimes many of these people are committing. A lot of things being said about them are absolutely true. But since I haven't heard what was being said by the people you know...I can't comment on that.

The issue is at this point in Europe and other places, who and what is going to happen. Are you willing to pay another 10 percent in taxes, so that the government can give them free money, free housing, free medical care for years and years?

How ( if ever) will their immigration be handled, what proof of identity, proof of criminal history will they provide.

We have refugee centers about 200 miles from my house with about 20,000 or more people in it. The process and cost of this effort is unbelievable.

And many of them bring some of the same and names to themselves. Groups that do not want to go to some countries, because they offer less welfare, or because they can not gain citizenship easily.

Also, the term "racist" is used too often when there is no real defense against what is being said.

I was called racist because as a police officer, I arrested 80 percent blacks. (I worked in a black community that was 99 percent black, even finding a white person to arrest was amazing)

I am called racist because I think any and all people coming into a country should be by legal channels, Esp America is a nation of law,

I am called racist because I think people that come into a new nation should assimilate into culture. (America was called a melting pot, not a nation of many pots) As a person who has moved to a new nation, I have to learn the language, except for driving test and immigration offices, there is no English in government offices here. So I have to adapt to language, customs and more.

Fear of terrorism. Call me racist again, but most Americans, (and many in Europe) do not live in the knowledge of the 100's, if not 1000's of terrorist attacks (both those that happen, and those stopped) that happen each month. Here, I live in a city that a couple years ago, had a mass murder at our train station, where a suicide bomber was only about 10 feet from me, when police jumped him last year. So if I happen to be more concerned over a certain type of person? That is know to do these attacks, is that racist or realistic?

I have been caLied racist because I don't like our president or what he stands for. I felt the same thing about Clinton, but I wasn't called racist because he was white.

Be careful when you are labeling someone.

I live in Europe, 2 km from a refugee center, that used to be a hospital. Our taxes won't be raised 10% because of the refugees! And they are not goldseekers. There really is a war going on.


Someone posted that Europeans are becoming homeless because they are building new refugeecenters. That is a lie. Nobody is being evicted for refugees.Of course are there criminals among the refugees, you have them everywhere There might even be terrorists among them. But I don't want to have the poor innocent people to suffer from the bad apples in between them.

The issue will be how many, and if an economy can handle the number. And if the homeless and needy people of that area are being cared for first.

In the US for example, there is great hate, that the American Veteran is not getting very good care, while plans for funding of refugee centers are being done. And yes, taxes will have to be raised at some point if 100's of thousands of refugees are bought in.

We barely have any homeless here, because of our good social security system. I live of disability myself and rent my own apartment with rentcontrol and I get an allowance for my rent and for my health insurance. We have nothing to complain about.

I live in Europe, 2 km from a refugee center, that used to be a hospital. Our taxes won't be raised 10% because of the refugees! And they are not goldseekers. There really is a war going on.


Someone posted that Europeans are becoming homeless because they are building new refugeecenters. That is a lie. Nobody is being evicted for refugees.Of course are there criminals among the refugees, you have them everywhere There might even be terrorists among them. But I don't want to have the poor innocent people to suffer from the bad apples in between them.

People in Germany ARE in fact being evicted from their homes to make room for the "illegals" . Most of whom are on the move for economic reasons... not because of a war. And yes taxes WILL be raised on people who work to pay for them. No European country has extra money to throw around and housing and feeding them is not free. Most will never work... most will leach off the taxpayers.

People in Italy can not afford these illegals...they don't even have jobs for their own citizens. Except for the communists who want their votes...nobody else there wants them. The crime rate has skyrocketed since they came illegally..Its no longer safe to even leave my motorcycle chained up outside overnight. Before they came I never had to chain it up at all. I have to have my inlaws check my property there daily now...instead of dropping by every few weeks.

People in Germany ARE in fact being evicted from their homes to make room for the "illegals" . Most of whom are on the move for economic reasons... not because of a war. And yes taxes WILL be raised on people who work to pay for them. No European country has extra money to throw around and housing and feeding them is not free. Most will never work... most will leach off the taxpayers.

People in Italy can not afford these illegals...they don't even have jobs for their own citizens. Except for the communists who want their votes...nobody else there wants them. The crime rate has skyrocketed since they came illegally..Its no longer safe to even leave my motorcycle chained up outside overnight. Before they came I never had to chain it up at all. I have to have my inlaws check my property there daily now...instead of dropping by every few weeks.


Well, I live in The Netherlands, nobody got evicted here and there was a meme posted that Dutch people were evicted, that isn't the truth.

Yes, among the refugees, are unfortunately also criminals, just like there are Dutch criminals. But as soon as you break the law, you don't get a visa anymore. People without a visa, don't get anything from the government: no house, no money, no healthcare. That is the part that worries me: they should really put the criminals back on a plane. I don't care that they go back to an area where it is dangerous, if you make the safe country where I live less safe.

But some people act as if every single refugee is a criminal.

A lot of them do get jobs. I dated to former refugees, one from Angola and one from Guinee, both have jobs. I know a lot of refugees, from Burkina Faso, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Cameroun, they all have jobs! So the fact that most of them will never work, is a straight out lie.

In fact if you get up really early or you party all night and you go home, the guys that are delivering the early morning newspapers, are only former refugees, the Dutch people, including me, are too spoiled for a job like that. If you go to Schiphol (our international airport), all the cleaners are former refugees, the Dutch are too spoiled to clean the airport.

If you go into the kitchens of the restaurants, you see a lot of former refugees preparing the food. If you watch the movie Samba, you see an accurate depiction of how refugees live. It is set in Paris, but I recognised a lot that is also reality in The Netherlands. The guy that I dated from Guinee even looks like Omar Sy.

I work as a volunteer at a gym, in an effort to prepare myself for a real job again. Our cleaning lady is also a volunteer, from Somalia. I don't want to be a cleaning lady. My first job was as a cleaning lady and I sucked at it, I can't work as fast as they wanted me to, I am clumsy and I am not soothed for physical labour.

Fortunately, I am born and raised here and even have a bachelor degree, so I will probably find a deskjob or something that will pay better.

Being as your current wave of refugees is from a war without uniforms, can you tell the difference between a refugee and an infiltrator? Infiltration and human wave attacks have been quite successful strategies in that part of the world for several millennia.

From what I understand, the majority of these refugees are youngish males (teen to 40ish) who are looking for economic opportunities, not safety from war. (So why aren't they fighting for this in and for their own countries?) Even the families supposedly are looking for economic improvement, not for a haven from war. The European countries don't have the resources and jobs for tens of thousands of these immigrants.

Being as your current wave of refugees is from a war without uniforms, can you tell the difference between a refugee and an infiltrator? Infiltration and human wave attacks have been quite successful strategies in that part of the world for several millennia.

No, I can't tell the difference. But what do you mean with an infiltrator? No refugee can pass as a Dutch person, because they can't speak perfect Dutch without an accent. They will always be different from the people that were born here.

Do you mean terrorism with human wave attacks? I am unfamilliar with those words. In case that is what you mean: That is why the authorities should do their job of sortening them out very thoroughly. But we are talking about people here. What are you suggesting? That we should let all those people just perish, because there might be terrorists among them?

War can occur anywhere and if I ever have to flee my home, I hope that there is a place for me to run. So I am treating these refugees the same way that I would wanted to be treated: as a human first and as a risk second.

I am from and in the USA.. I also spend a significant time and have ties in Italy... family and property... and have for 25 years. And unlike any of them...I actually have a right to Italian Citizenship.

Anyone that shows up in any country without a valid VISA or papers is a criminal.. or if they qualify as a tourist and overstay that... IS a criminal. It's a crime to be in ANY country without the legal right to be there.

The unemployment rate for EDUCATED Italian youth is exceptionally high... its even higher for those without a college degree. There aren't enough jobs for people who have a legal right to be in Italy... and Illegals are taking away some of those precious jobs from them.

Italy's economy is barely better than Portugal and Spain.. and they were barely above Greece and its obvious what is going on there. Get ready to be bailing them out soon as well, and paying dearly for it because you are one of the people by welcoming all the uneducated and unwashed people in that shouldn't be there. You WILL be paying for it...don't fool yourself into believing otherwise....you are now with your high taxes, which will be going higher.

And as was said... these are people of the age who SHOULD be fighting for their own country.. rather than running to and hiding in another country where they won't lift a finger to help either. And they aren't paying their way... a very few might be... most are collecting welfare that legal citizens can't get, free or subsidized housing actual citizens can't get because they are on a waiting list these illegals never had to wait in. If they won't lift a finger or take the risk to make their own country better.. they certainly won't do it for someone else's country they think they have the right to go to simply because they decide to.

And want to see what is in store for much of Europe? You need no look any further than your own news. Look what's happened within the Muslim communities in Great Britain and France... with all the rioting and crimes committed... and the complete lack of assimilation by the same group. In fact they refuse to assimilate.

From what I understand, the majority of these refugees are youngish males (teen to 40ish) who are looking for economic opportunities, not safety from war. (So why aren't they fighting for this in and for their own countries?) Even the families supposedly are looking for economic improvement, not for a haven from war. The European countries don't have the resources and jobs for tens of thousands of these immigrants.

The majority are young men. But they are real refugees. The war is going on for four years now in Syria. A lot of them fled to Turkey first, but there just isn't enough work for them there, so they are looking for jobs elsewhere. Why aren't they fighting? Well because they don't want to fight for Assad nor for the terrorists, as far as I know there really isn't a good side in this war to fight for. You can't just raise your own army. So there is no other choice than to flee.

I know that some white Dutch men joined the Peshmerga, the Kurdic army, which was the best army to join, in which you could achieve something good. But now the Turkish army is attacking them as well, so I wouldn't want to fight for them anymore if I was bombed by Turkey and I wouldn't want to fight against them either, only against the real terrorists and of course against Assad, so then the Turkish army isn't an option either.

Unfortunately this isn't a war where you can join a good army, that fights against Assad and against all the terrorists. I am just really glad that I am not Syrian!

The majority are young men. But they are real refugees. The war is going on for four years now in Syria. A lot of them fled to Turkey first, but there just isn't enough work for them there, so they are looking for jobs elsewhere. Why aren't they fighting? Well because they don't want to fight for Assad nor for the terrorists, as far as I know there really isn't a good side in this war to fight for. You can't just raise your own army. So there is no other choice than to flee.

I know that some white Dutch men joined the Peshmerga, the Kurdic army, which was the best army to join, in which you could achieve something good. But now the Turkish army is attacking them as well, so I wouldn't want to fight for them anymore if I was bombed by Turkey and I wouldn't want to fight against them either, only against the real terrorists and of course against Assad, so then the Turkish army isn't an option either.

Unfortunately this isn't a war where you can join a good army, that fights against Assad and against all the terrorists. I am just really glad that I am not Syrian!
No they aren't refugees... most aren't even Syrian, where ever you are getting your information from is really.. really biased in what they are selectively feeding you there.

If they are too lazy to defend their own country... they don't deserve to go to anyone else's... What about all the OTHER countries in their own region... they can go there... why won't anyone ask or answer THAT question?

I actually knew some Syrians....they were not particularly nice people. In fact they had their diplomatic Immunity Stripped from them and they were deported in a real big hurry. I won't go into details why....but I do know why.

No they aren't refugees... most aren't even Syrian, where ever you are getting your information from is really.. really biased in what they are selectively feeding you there.

If they are too lazy to defend their own country... they don't deserve to go to anyone else's... What about all the OTHER countries in their own region... they can go there... why won't anyone ask or answer THAT question?

I actually knew some Syrians....they were not particularly nice people. In fact they had their diplomatic Immunity Stripped from them and they were deported in a real big hurry. I won't go into details why....but I do know why.

I have a Syrian friend and she is very nice. She was the first person who told me that Yezidi's were sold as slaves. Someone didn't even believe her, but within a week it was on the news.

They are not too lazy to defend their own country, there just isn't a good army to join.

I have a Syrian friend and she is very nice. She was the first person who told me that Yezidi's were sold as slaves. Someone didn't even believe her, but within a week it was on the news.

They are not too lazy to defend their own country, there just isn't a good army to join.

That's just a really lame excuse used by people too afraid or too lazy to join, particularly if they are unemployed otherwise. Your country only has one Army ( or more accurately Armed Forces)... you don't get to pick which one (thought there are different branches of the Armed forces that you can in many cases pick from). And if the Citizens won't defend their own country... then why should anyone else put their own lives and money on the line to do it?

If they weren't lazy or a coward they would join...and certainly they aren't in a situation where there are TOO MANY people in it that they were told...sorry..we have enough and don't need any more.


The truth is they aren't willing to make the sacrifice to defend their own country. Because they are either lazy or worse...cowards. I'm willing to say....cowards fit the bill for most of them. Since even Women are part of the Armies in most of the world. The civilized parts anyway.

Like misspurple mentioned, there isn't a good army to join. Neither of them have agendas that are for the country's benefit. But citizens running off to other countries doesn't seem like a good answer either.

Like misspurple mentioned, there isn't a good army to join. Neither of them have agendas that are for the country's benefit. But citizens running off to other countries doesn't seem like a good answer either.

It is the only choice they have, if they want to stay alive!

That's just a really lame excuse used by people too afraid or too lazy to join, particularly if they are unemployed otherwise. Your country only has one Army ( or more accurately Armed Forces)... you don't get to pick which one (thought there are different branches of the Armed forces that you can in many cases pick from). And if the Citizens won't defend their own country... then why should anyone else put their own lives and money on the line to do it?

If they weren't lazy or a coward they would join...and certainly they aren't in a situation where there are TOO MANY people in it that they were told...sorry..we have enough and don't need any more.


The truth is they aren't willing to make the sacrifice to defend their own country. Because they are either lazy or worse...cowards. I'm willing to say....cowards fit the bill for most of them. Since even Women are part of the Armies in most of the world. The civilized parts anyway.

The army from Syria is led by Assad!!

You can't expect those people to join this dictator that has been oppressing his people for decades now! Syria needs to get rid of him, but of course, IS, Al Quaida and the Muslim Brotherhood are even worse!

The Peshmerga was the only acceptable alternative, but now that Turkey is fighting against the Peshmerga as well, you are just stupid to join them. Fighting against the Peshmerga is also wrong, so you don't want to join the Turkish army either (and to join them you have to flea as well, because Turkey is already another country) so there is really not a good army, within the borders of Syria to join!

It ranges from evil, to even more evil. Even Al Quaida dissaproves of IS, because they are so barbaric, but Al Quaida is the terrorist group responsible for 9-11, so of course you don't want to join them either!

It is the only choice they have, if they want to stay alive!That DEFINES exactly what it is to be a coward...people like that won't stand up for their own country...they won't stand up to defend you or anyone else...they are only interesting in whats in it for them. None of those are redeeming qualities.,

That DEFINES exactly what it is to be a coward...people like that won't stand up for their own country...they won't stand up to defend you or anyone else...they are only interesting in whats in it for them. None of those are redeeming qualities.,
What armies are fighting, and what does each want or stand for?

I am from and in the USA.. I also spend a significant time and have ties in Italy... family and property... and have for 25 years. And unlike any of them...I actually have a right to Italian Citizenship.

Anyone that shows up in any country without a valid VISA or papers is a criminal.. or if they qualify as a tourist and overstay that... IS a criminal. It's a crime to be in ANY country without the legal right to be there.

The unemployment rate for EDUCATED Italian youth is exceptionally high... its even higher for those without a college degree. There aren't enough jobs for people who have a legal right to be in Italy... and Illegals are taking away some of those precious jobs from them.

Italy's economy is barely better than Portugal and Spain.. and they were barely above Greece and its obvious what is going on there. Get ready to be bailing them out soon as well, and paying dearly for it because you are one of the people by welcoming all the uneducated and unwashed people in that shouldn't be there. You WILL be paying for it...don't fool yourself into believing otherwise....you are now with your high taxes, which will be going higher.

And as was said... these are people of the age who SHOULD be fighting for their own country.. rather than running to and hiding in another country where they won't lift a finger to help either. And they aren't paying their way... a very few might be... most are collecting welfare that legal citizens can't get, free or subsidized housing actual citizens can't get because they are on a waiting list these illegals never had to wait in. If they won't lift a finger or take the risk to make their own country better.. they certainly won't do it for someone else's country they think they have the right to go to simply because they decide to.

And want to see what is in store for much of Europe? You need no look any further than your own news. Look what's happened within the Muslim communities in Great Britain and France... with all the rioting and crimes committed... and the complete lack of assimilation by the same group. In fact they refuse to assimilate.

According to Dutch laws, you are not a criminal for being illegal. Period. You are only a criminal when you break the law. If you seek asylum, as long as the decision to grant you asylum or not hasn't been taken, you are legal in the country. And I know for a fact that almost all Syrians that apply for a visa, get one.

Ten days ago a refugee doctor from Syria saved a Dutch life here in The Netherlands. See the article underneath. Please realise that Syrians are people in the first place and that they can also add to our society. Of course the article is in Dutch, but you can use Google translate to read it.

Cookies op AD.nl (http://www.ad.nl/ad/nl/1012/Nederland/article/detail/4145821/2015/09/19/Vluchteling-arts-schiet-te-hulp-in-Weert.dhtml)

Fleeing your country that is being bombed by the US, where the army of dictator Assad is fighting against IS, A Quada and the Muslim Brotherhood is the only sane thing to do. Especially if you are a Christian or a Yezidi, you are in real trouble there. My Syrian friend is a Christian. But Musims aren't save either. IS even beheads Muslims, that is why even Al Quaida is commenting on them.

Are you telling me, that if there is an army approaching that wants to beheads you, while the US is bombing you, you would stay put? Then you are deluding yourself!

What armies are fighting, and what does each want or stand for?

Syrian army is fighting to keep the corrupt President Assad in power, the President since 2000, the son of the former president, since 1970.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bashar_al-Assad

ISIL, the most barbarbic group of terrorists ever. They are so gruesome, that Obama had no other choice than to start bombing them. They behead people, even Muslims, enslave women and children and are really horrible, so horrible, that Al Qaeda dissaproves of them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

Al Qaeda: responsible for 9-11, I don't think that they need further introduction, but in case you were living under a rock this century:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda

Muslim Brotherhood, another group of Muslim terrorists. They had the power in Egypt for a year and that is why we now know that they are corrupt terrorists as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_Brotherhood

The Peshmerga, really the only good guys in this fight. But they are not from Syria!1! They are Kurds from Iraq! But because Turkey is at war with the Kurds, Turkey is bombing them. Turkey is part of NATO. You must be crazy to enlist in an army that is being bombed by NATO. According to Turkey, the Peshmerga are terrorists as well, because they want their own Kurdish state, which also entails a part of Turkey. The PKK is a terrorist organisation, but although they fight for the same cause, as far as I know, the Peshmerga aren't terrorist. Dutch white soldiers that wanted to help in this was, joined the Peshmerga. They were allowed, because the Peshmerga aren't an enemy of The Netherlands. But now that Turkey declared them an enemy, and Turkey is our ally and part of NATO, I don't think fighting for them is still a wise choice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshmerga

The Turkish army. Led by primeminister Erdogan. Turkey is changing more and more into a Muslim state with him as President. Human rights are violated more and more, especially those of the Kurdish or people that speak up about the Armenian genocide. Like I stated earlier, in order to join them, you have to flea Syria first, but then you might get unlucky and have to fight the Peshmerga instead of Assad of the terrorists, so not really a good choice either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkey

And those are the six groups all fighting against each other in Syria. While IS is also being bombed by the US.

The earth would be a better place if Assad, IS, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood were all four completely wiped out

That DEFINES exactly what it is to be a coward...people like that won't stand up for their own country...they won't stand up to defend you or anyone else...they are only interesting in whats in it for them. None of those are redeeming qualities.,

You can't fight if you don't have weapons.

They are as defenseless as you and me. Or do you have a lot of guns, drones, granates, missiles etc. laying in your backyard!

I don't have any power against terrorists as well. I would flee too and I am not a coward. I am just realistic: without any military training or even a handgun, there is nothing that I can do against terrorists or the army of Assad and if the US is bombing me, weapons don't even help. I don't even want to shoot a BUK missile at the US, because they need to bomb IS! But regular people don't have BUK missiles.

The army from Syria is led by Assad!!

You can't expect those people to join this dictator that has been oppressing his people for decades now! Syria needs to get rid of him, but of course, IS, Al Quaida and the Muslim Brotherhood are even worse!

The Peshmerga was the only acceptable alternative, but now that Turkey is fighting against the Peshmerga as well, you are just stupid to join them. Fighting against the Peshmerga is also wrong, so you don't want to join the Turkish army either (and to join them you have to flea as well, because Turkey is already another country) so there is really not a good army, within the borders of Syria to join!

It ranges from evil, to even more evil. Even Al Quaida dissaproves of IS, because they are so barbaric, but Al Quaida is the terrorist group responsible for 9-11, so of course you don't want to join them either!

Lots of excuses... they pick one and stand behind it, and any consequences of it... Nit pick like that and nobody would ever join any army anyplace.

Think there wasn't consequences to be paid by people here taking arms against the British, or North against the South... or any other action since then? Sure there is... and yes there always will be... as will be the whiners that sit on the sidelines and complain but do nothing and in the end their cause loses because so many of them ran away to hide instead of fight.

People who run away and hide rather than fight lose any moral high ground to complain later things have not improved.

Freedom is never free.

Lots of excuses... they pick one and stand behind it, and any consequences of it... Nit pick like that and nobody would ever join any army anyplace.

Think there wasn't consequences to be paid by people here taking arms against the British, or North against the South... or any other action since then? Sure there is... and yes there always will be... as will be the whiners that sit on the sidelines and complain but do nothing and in the end their cause loses because so many of them ran away to hide instead of fight.

People who run away and hide rather than fight lose any moral high ground to complain later things have not improved.

I couldn't disagree more. There are no good sides to join. As an individual you don't stand a chance and in a country torn apart by war, it isn't that easy to assemble your own new army, to truly liberate the Syrian people from all kinds of oppression. Not everybody is mandated to give their life for a cause.

I'd rather have people running here, into my city, than joining forces with these evil parties and making them stronger. People who don't join terrorists have the moral high ground compared to those who join terrorists.

I really don't understand how you can have such a unrealistic outlook on this war. But if I apply your own reasoning to you, you are a descendand of cowards, because only the native Americans belong in the US. Every white person in the US is a descendant from an immigrant that was too lazy or cowardly to build a life in Europe, but instread fled to the US as an economical refugee.

Unless you are African American of course, or do you have a way to reason that enslaved people were cowards too?

I couldn't disagree more. There are no good sides to join. As an individual you don't stand a chance and in a country torn apart by war, it isn't that easy to assemble your own new army, to truly liberate the Syrian people from all kinds of oppression. Not everybody is mandated to give their life for a cause.

I'd rather have people running here, into my city, than joining forces with these evil parties and making them stronger. People who don't join terrorists have the moral high ground compared to those who join terrorists.

I really don't understand how you can have such a unrealistic outlook on this war. But if I apply your own reasoning to you, you are a descendand of cowards, because only the native Americans belong in the US. Every white person in the US is a descendant from an immigrant that was too lazy or cowardly to build a life in Europe, but instead fled to the US as an economical refugee.

Unless you are African American of course, or do you have a way to reason that enslaved people were cowards too?

Really... You want to go there with the laughing stock the Netherlands Army is everyplace? Was YOUR ethnic group traceable in the Netherlands to the Neolithic period? I'm willing to bet it isn't.


Incidentally... if it wasn't for us... you wouldn't be speaking Dutch right now and would be part of a Greater Germany encompassing most of Europe. Maybe we shouldn't have bothered.

Yes I had Uncles and Neighbors that fought to free Europe, as well as in the Pacific, Two Highly decorated in fact, another one of them Died on the Bataan Death march. They didn't run and hide making excuses to NOT fight.

Typical... maybe you DESERVE to have the Muslims decide to impose Sharia and start decapitating women who don't wear Burqas... It's going to happen.. and happen soon... and when it does... don't come crying to us.. you can stay there and deal with it because you created it. It happens EVERYWHERE they develop a critical mass... Like Paris and the UK. Next thing will be convert or die like happens in nearly every Muslim majority nation.

The education system really is substandard where you grew up... or is that the sort of Drivel that passes as education these days. Ever Hear of the word... Colonization? Cripes...look it up. The didn't flee for economic reasons to the great Cities built by the Indians here.

But then..with the Gun control you have over there...there isn't much you can do but submit...I don't expect your army to do much. Except quell an unruly student disturbance.

There may be MILLIONS fleeing Syria, but Assad ain't won in 4 years, despite Russia helping him out. SOMEBODY is putting up one helluva fight.

smoothy, what if the Nazis had occupied our country, the Japanese were fighting them and committing atrocities here and there among the US population, the Koreans were bombing the Nazis AND the Japanese, and there was no US military to speak of? What would you do?

There may be MILLIONS fleeing Syria, but Assad ain't won in 4 years, despite Russia helping him out. SOMEBODY is putting up one helluva fight.

There may be MILLIONS fleeing Syria, but Assad ain't won in 4 years, despite Russia helping him out. SOMEBODY is putting up one helluva fight. 

Yes, that is a huge problem. It seems as if Russia just wants to make the world a worse place. If it was just Assad...


smoothy, what if the Nazis had occupied our country, the Japanese were fighting them and committing atrocities here and there among the US population, the Koreans were bombing the Nazis AND the Japanese, and there was no US military to speak of? What would you do?

Thank you Wondergirl!

I wonder if you can get through to Smoothy, because it seems to me as if he is just searching for reasons to be able to bash refugees, Muslims and everyone who isn't bashing them!

Really... You want to go there with the laughing stock the Netherlands Army is everyplace? Was YOUR ethnic group traceable in the Netherlands to the Neolithic period? I'm willing to bet it isn't.


Incidentally... if it wasn't for us... you wouldn't be speaking Dutch right now and would be part of a Greater Germany encompassing most of Europe. Maybe we shouldn't have bothered.

Yes I had Uncles and Neighbors that fought to free Europe, as well as in the Pacific, Two Highly decorated in fact, another one of them Died on the Bataan Death march. They didn't run and hide making excuses to NOT fight.

Typical... maybe you DESERVE to have the Muslims decide to impose Sharia and start decapitating women who don't wear Burqas... It's going to happen.. and happen soon... and when it does... don't come crying to us.. you can stay there and deal with it because you created it. It happens EVERYWHERE they develop a critical mass... Like Paris and the UK. Next thing will be convert or die like happens in nearly every Muslim majority nation.

The education system really is substandard where you grew up... or is that the sort of Drivel that passes as education these days. Ever Hear of the word... Colonization? Cripes...look it up. The didn't flee for economic reasons to the great Cities built by the Indians here.

But then..with the Gun control you have over there...there isn't much you can do but submit...I don't expect your army to do much. Except quell an unruly student disturbance.

LOL!

You really don't know who I am. My ethnic group is traceable everywhere. You know why! Because I am not white!

And I know all about colonisation: my parents were both born in Suriname, a former colony of The Netherlands.

I am half Surinamese Indian, a quarter Jewish, indigenous Surinamese, African and Chinese. And yes, Surinamese people have fought in the second world war.

I know all about colonisation and it is also a bad thing! The biggest genocide in human history isn't the holocaust, no it is what the colonists did in the US!

So laugh all you want about the Dutch, or Surinamese people or whomever you want to, no one committed as much atrocities as the white colonists of the US.

And what the Dutch did in colonial era's wasn't pretty either. First they enslaved my indigenous great-great-grandmother, but when they realised that the indigeous people weren't strong enough to work like cattle on the plantations (sugar, cotton, cocoa, coffee etc), they obducted my African ancestors from Africa, shipped them all the way to Curaçao and from there to Suriname to work on the plantations. When slavery was abolished, the colonisers were still too lazy and weak to do hard labour themselves, so then they went to India and recruited my mothers family to do the heavy work at the plantations.

I have no idea what would have happened in the second world war without the US. But I do know, that the atrocities and the pure horrors that the white colonists committed against the indigenous people of the New World and the slavery is something to be very ashamed off, much, much, much more than anything that happened later in history.

O, and today, I would be very ashamed to be American, if I would live in the richest country in the world, but people have to go to gofundme.com to pay their medical bills or that families in which both parents work more than 40 hours a week still can't make ends meet, and families with little children end up living in tents underneath bridges, because of the crisis in 2008. Where poor people can't afford to go to college and idiots like Donald Trump and Kim Davis have supporters.

Here in The Netherlands there are no families living in tents under bridges! Just one salary is always enough to make ends meet. Everyone can afford healthcare and we were the first country in the world with gay marriage. Unfortunately bigots like Bush were able to denie the gay community their human right until Obama came along.

Now I don't hate Americans or the Dutch, all I am trying to achieve here, is that you have no reason to act as if you come from a line of perfect people to be proud of and that you have no right to judge everybody else in the world that isn't American.

But, honestly, after all that you have said so far, it wouldn't surprise me if you are a Republican yourself, and in my eyes, the Republicans nowadays, but especially Donald Trump, stand for everything that is wrong with the US.

Donald Trump is comparable to the Dutch politician Geert Wilders and everything that you said, how you demonise Muslims, are things that that racist politician Geert Wilders would say. He wasn't even welcome in the UK, Australia and Germany because of his racist views. So that you remind me of him, really is a huge insult, but he is probably one of your heroes, if I am listening to your reasoning so far.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_Wilders

LOL!

You really don't know who I am. My ethnic group is traceable everywhere. You know why! Because I am not white!

And I know all about colonisation: my parents were both born in Suriname, a former colony of The Netherlands.

I am half Surinamese Indian, a quarter Jewish, indigenous Surinamese, African and Chinese. And yes, Surinamese people have fought in the second world war.

I know all about colonisation and it is also a bad thing! The biggest genocide in human history isn't the holocaust, no it is what the colonists did in the US!

So laugh all you want about the Dutch, or Surinamese people or whomever you want to, no one committed as much atrocities as the white colonists of the US.

And what the Dutch did in colonial era's wasn't pretty either. First they enslaved my indigenous great-great-grandmother, but when they realised that the indigeous people weren't strong enough to work like cattle on the plantations (sugar, cotton, cocoa, coffee etc), they obducted my African ancestors from Africa, shipped them all the way to Curaçao and from there to Suriname to work on the plantations. When slavery was abolished, the colonisers were still too lazy and weak to do hard labour themselves, so then they went to India and recruited my mothers family to do the heavy work at the plantations.

I have no idea what would have happened in the second world war without the US. But I do know, that the atrocities and the pure horrors that the white colonists committed against the indigenous people of the New World and the slavery is something to be very ashamed off, much, much, much more than anything that happened later in history.

O, and today, I would be very ashamed to be American, if I would live in the richest country in the world, but people have to go to gofundme.com to pay their medical bills or that families in which both parents work more than 40 hours a week still can't make ends meet, and families with little children end up living in tents underneath bridges, because of the crisis in 2008. Where poor people can't afford to go to college and idiots like Donald Trump and Kim Davis have supporters.

Here in The Netherlands there are no families living in tents under bridges! Just one salary is always enough to make ends meet. Everyone can afford healthcare and we were the first country in the world with gay marriage. Unfortunately bigots like Bush were able to denie the gay community their human right until Obama came along.

Now I don't hate Americans or the Dutch, all I am trying to achieve here, is that you have no reason to act as if you come from a line of perfect people to be proud of and that you have no right to judge everybody else in the world that isn't American.

But, honestly, after all that you have said so far, it wouldn't surprise me if you are a Republican yourself, and in my eyes, the Republicans nowadays, but especially Donald Trump, stand for everything that is wrong with the US.

Donald Trump is comparable to the dutch politician Geert Wilders and everything that you said, how you demonise Muslims, are things that that racist politician Geert Wilders would say. He wasn't even welcome in the UK, Australia and Germany because of his racist views. So that you remind me of him, really is a huge insult, but he is probably one of your heroes, if I am listening to your reasoning so far.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geert_WildersEverything that is wrong is liberalism.. everyone expecting something for nothing... and that is epidemic in Europe. That's why the economy there is stagnant. And has been for MANY decades.

Funny thing with Liberalism... they always want to spend someone else's money... so that someone else leaves to go someplace more friendly and that leaves nobody to leech off. But rejoice... YOU get to pay those bills... just remind yourself when YOU are working to pay for everything YOU need as well as these illegals that are lounging around getting welfare and free housing and food. What a great Idea that is... For them.

I know the Netherlands well.. I was probably there before you were born... and I know people that are still there...

There is nothing I like about the Netherlands. You left out being the Mecca for so many of Europe's drug addicts too. Don't forget that.

And about Demonizing Muslims... Get stuffed... I have the RIGHT to Demonise Muslims because those degenerate Moon god worshipers almost killed me on 9/11 and did kill several people I was working with... so get off your high horse about them because they haven't even started to make amends for that yet. OR the 99% of worldwide terrorism committed in the name of a pedophile and murderer.

And you nor anyone else on this planet has the RIGHT to tell me otherwise... Because I was there... YOU weren't.

And you are the one that needs to be ashamed... I am Proud to be an american... the Dutch are laughingstocks in much of the world. Except to the stoners... great point of pride there.

You really don't have half the education you think you have.. and know even less about what really happens. You probably believe all the propaganda you see on the news and read in the Papers... but then.. you really don't have access to what's really going on anyplace.


And About Wikipedia... they are wrong about a lot of stuff... and I've proven it on several points where they were COMPLETELY wrong... not just a little wrong. Didn't work hard to find them either... and there are a lot more I don't know about too if it was that easy to find.

And you are totally clueless about where the biggest Genocide occurred.. because it Wasn't even in the Western Hemisphere.

You should be embarrassed spewing that garbage in public. Heck..you should go back to your teachers and smack them to teaching it.

Where do I get THAT knowledge from....30+ years in and around parts of the government you will never see, even your own...I see what happened and I see what is later reported....and you would be surprised how rarely they even match.

And DOnald trump has already accomplished something most Politicians only Dream of...He earned his wealth..he didn't steal it.. And that makes him a success story few if any of his detractors can match....in fact most of them pick on the rich because they aren't smart enough to become one themselves.

Funny thing is Liberals worldwide call anyone that disagrees with their narrow minded agenda as racists. When they should be looking at themselves.

Oh..and incidently, the Dutch were VERY cooperative in handing over the Jews, the Gypsies, the Mentally infirm etc...to the Nazi's so the Dutch get no free pass on Genocide and their part in it either.

ANNE FRANK didn't even get past them. Yes...been there saw that over 30 years ago.

Everything that is wrong is liberalism.. everyone expecting something for nothing... and that is epidemic in Europe. That's why the economy there is stagnant. And has been for MANY decades.

Funny thing with Liberalism... they always want to spend someone else's money... so that someone else leaves to go someplace more friendly and that leaves nobody to leech off. But rejoice... YOU get to pay those bills... just remind yourself when YOU are working to pay for everything YOU need as well as these illegals that are lounging around getting welfare and free housing and food. What a great Idea that is... For them.

I know the Netherlands well.. I was probably there before you were born... and I know people that are still there...

There is nothing I like about the Netherlands. You left out being the Mecca for so many of Europe's drug addicts too. Don't forget that.

And about Demonizing Muslims... Get stuffed... I have the RIGHT to Demonise Muslims because those degenerate Moon god worshipers almost killed me on 9/11 and did kill several people I was working with... so get off your high horse about them because they haven't even started to make amends for that yet. OR the 99% of worldwide terrorism committed in the name of a pedophile and murderer.

And you nor anyone else on this planet has the RIGHT to tell me otherwise... Because I was there... YOU wasn't.

And you are the one that needs to be ashamed... I am Proud to be an american... the Dutch are laughingstocks in much of the world. Except to the stoners... great point of pride there.

You really don't have half the education you think you have.. and know even less about what really happens. You probably believe all the propaganda you see on the news and read in the Papers... but then.. you really don't have access to what's really going on anyplace.


And About Wikipedia... they are wrong about a lot of stuff... and I've proven it on several points where they were COMPLETELY wrong... not just a little wrong. Didn't work hard to find them either... and there are a lot more I don't know about too if it was that easy to find.

And you are totally clueless about where the biggest Genocide occurred.. because it Wasn't even in the Western Hemisphere.

You should be embarrassed spewing that garbage in public. Heck..you should go back to your teachers and smack them to teaching it.

OMG. You should be the one that should be ashamed, not me.

Nobody in The Netherlands get free housing! You can stay in the refugeecenter for free, but there you only have a room, for your own place you always have to pay. Like I said earlier, I know enough former refugees with a job, that pay taxes, so they really contribute to our society. But you keep on insisting that reality is different than what I see with my own eyes. Really sad. Who do you think that you are convincing?

My teachers never taught me about the 100 million indigenous people that were slaughtered in the US, that is something that I found out by myself. I don't know what you think of yourselves, but US history really isn't that important in the Dutch or Surinamese education system (I went to school in both countries.)

But if you know about a even bigger genocide, please let me know. I am always open for more verifiable information. But even if there is a bigger genocide, it is not a reason for the US to be proud of what they have done there.

I can't speak for all of Europe, because I only live in The Netherlands, but I do know that this part of Europe: Germany, the UK, The Netherlands, Belgium and even France don't have a stagnant economy for years.

So get your facts straight, before you judge liberals.

I am always so surprised about how ignorant people can be.

BTW: why didn't you answer Wondergirls's question: smoothy, what if the Nazis had occupied our country, the Japanese were fighting them and committing atrocities here and there among the US population, the Koreans were bombing the Nazis AND the Japanese, and there was no US military to speak of? What would you do?

Because that is the equivalent of what the Syrians are facing, The Nazi's are Assad, The Japanese are IS, and the Koreans are the US. To make it easier she left out the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda, Peshmerga and Turkey.

Oo, and about 9-11: not all Muslims are terrorists!!! How can you be so stupid to not know the difference! Like I said earlier, my mother and her family are Muslims, they hate terrorists and aside from maybe my uncle and cousin who were in the militairy (my cousin fought in Yougoslavia) no one ever killed anyone.

I have all the right to say that not every Muslim is a terrorist, because I know a lot of Muslims. Just like not every Christian is a member of the KKK so is not every Muslim a terrorist. That is really the most incorrect thing you have said so far. If every Muslim was in fact a terrorist, we would all have been dead by now!

OMG. You should be the one that should be ashamed, not me.

Nobody in The Netherlands get free housing! You can stay in the refugeecenter for free, but there you only have a room, for your own place you always have to pay. Like I said earlier, I know enough former refugees with a job, that pay taxes, so they really contribute to our society. But you keep on insisting that reality is different than what I see with my own eyes. Really sad. Who do you think that you are convincing?

My teachers never taught me about the 100 million indigenous people that were slaughtered in the US, that is something that I found out by myself. I don't know what you think of yourselves, but US history really isn't that important in the Dutch or Surinamese education system (I went to school in both countries.)

But if you know about a even bigger genocide, please let me know. I am always open for more verifiable information. But even if there is a bigger genocide, it is not a reason for the US to be proud of what they have done there.

I can't speak for all of Europe, because I only live in The Netherlands, but I do know that this part of Europe: Germany, the UK, The Netherlands, Belgium and even France don't have a stagnant economy for years.

So get your facts straight, before you judge liberals.

I am always so surprised about how ignorant people can be.

BTW: why didn't you answer Wondergirls's question: smoothy, what if the Nazis had occupied our country, the Japanese were fighting them and committing atrocities here and there among the US population, the Koreans were bombing the Nazis AND the Japanese, and there was no US military to speak of? What would you do?

Because that is the equivalent of what the Syrians are facing, The Nazi's are Assad, The Japanese are IS, and the Koreans are the US. To make it easier she left out the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda, Peshmerga and Turkey.

God lord... talk about being miss high and mighty... Excuse me for not being as PERFECT as you are in all things... but then... I'm glad I'm not.

Research it... the Two largest occurred under Socilist and Comminst Rule... In the USSR and China. Look them up. Look at the numbers... if you really care to know facts.

Really... your GDP growth has been what exactly the last say.. 40 years... WHat is your average unemployment rate, so there is NO excuse for anyone past the age of 18 to NOT be working a full time job...

Hell... there are a lot of individual states in the USA that have a greater GDP than the Netherlands and Belgium Combined... Germany alone is the bright spot in Europe... and its not all that wonderful. Lots of unemployed Germans... lot of Germans that WANT work and can't find it...

And answering Wondergirls question is for ME to do... I know her quite well...

I stand by my assertions that any group that is NOT willing to take up arms to defend their own country... don't deserve what they end up with.. OR deserve to go to any other. I'm also sick and tired of wasting our money and our lives on other countries they get all high and mighty about how perfect they are and how its us that do everything wrong... Cut off ALL foreign aid and see what happens... hell Europe can't even defend itself without OUR Military being there and the Billions WE spend there... let them learn the true cost of defending themselves... instead of expecting US to pay for most of it.

And the real Genocides were caused by the Spanish....not the USA and for your information the Colonies that were at the Beginning before there was a USA were...English..Dutch, French AND Spanish....if you had learned history. All long before we fought for and earned our independence from England...we BOUGHT the rest from France...some from Spain..and we bought Alaska from Russia...

You might want to brush up on your European History as well...not just the ancient..but the last several hundred years too, maybe even go back a bit further like the middle ages....real nice people running things....treated the population really well.......actually not they didn't. and Slaves in the USA....sold to us by Europeans, Arabs and mostly Other Africans (something everyone chooses to leave out) actually had it far better than the average person in the middle ages in Europe. And Certainly better than the Irish had it under English rule up until less than 100 years ago.


But then..like most liberals world wide, why let facts get in the way of things.

Nothing personal though....The Netherlands was a pretty enough place to visit....when it wasn't raining...but I wouldn't want to live there. And I've been there several times. I know much of Europe VERY well. I know parts of Italy better than my own home town.

God lord... talk about being miss high and mighty... Excuse me for not being as PERFECT as you are in all things... but then... I'm glad I'm not.

Research it... the Two largest occurred under Socilist and Comminst Rule... In the USSR and China. Look them up. Look at the numbers... if you really care to know facts.

Really... your GDP growth has been what exactly the last say.. 40 years... WHat is your average unemployment rate, so there is NO excuse for anyone past the age of 18 to NOT be working a full time job...

Hell... there are a lot of individual states in the USA that have a greater GDP than the Netherlands and Belgium Combined... Germany alone is the bright spot in Europe... and its not all that wonderful. Lots of unemployed Germans... lot of Germans that WANT work and can't find it...

And answering Wondergirls question is for ME to do... I know her quite well...

I stand by my assertions that any group that is NOT willing to take up arms to defend their own country... don't deserve what they end up with.. OR deserve to go to any other. I'm also sick and tired of wasting our money and our lives on other countries they get all high and mighty about how perfect they are and how its us that do everything wrong... Cut off ALL foreign aid and see what happens... hell Europe can't even defend itself without OUR Military being there and the Billions WE spend there... let them learn the true cost of defending themselves... instead of expecting US to pay for most of it.

And the real Genocides were caused by the Spanish....not the USA and for your information the Colonies that were at the Beginning before there was a USA were...English..Dutch, French AND Spanish....if you had learned history. All long before we fought for and earned our independence from England...we BOUGHT the rest from France...some from Spain..and we bought Alaska from Russia...

You might want to brush up on your European History as well...not just the ancient..but the last several hundred years too, maybe even go back a bit further like the middle ages....real nice people running things....treated the population really well.......actually not they didn't. and Slaves in the USA....sold to us by Europeans, Arabs and mostly Other Africans (something everyone chooses to leave out) actually had it far better than the average person in the middle ages in Europe. And Certainly better than the Irish had it under English rule up until less than 100 years ago.


But then..like most liberals world wide, why let facts get in the way of things.

Nothing personal though....The Netherlands was a pretty enough place to visit....when it wasn't raining...but I wouldn't want to live there. And I've been there several times. I know much of Europe VERY well. I know parts of Italy better than my own home town.

Those Dutch (yes I know who owned New York first and they traded it for Suriname in 1674), Spanish, French and English colonists are exactly the people that I am talking about!! You, as a white American, either descend from them, or from later immigrants. Which makes you no better than people migrating today. That is all that I am saying. Yes horrific things happened during the dark ages. I totally agree, all the white people in the US, had ancestors that lived in Europe during the middle ages. If you are white, no matter what spin you try to put on it, you are a descendant of either a European colonist or an European immigrant in the US and that makes you nothing better than a refugee.

But, that is not meant as an insult, because, I clearly respect refugees!

All that you said about the world history is something that I agree with and that only proves my point: if you are white, your ancestors were part of an barbaric Europe (Vikings, Romans, Greeks, crusades, a lot of bad things happened here) and then they either massacred the natives in the US or they went later on, as immigrants to the US.

And before you think that I don't know other things either: every race was once barbaric! We all descend from a savage race, if we go back far enough. That is why I say that you shouldn't act as if you are anything better than anyone else. We all have rotten ancestors! We all have enough to be ashamed off. I never claimed to be perfect. My claim is that none of us are, we are all equal, all part of the human race, and when someone is in trouble, we should help them. What I object to, is that you act as if you are better than a refugee. You didn't arrange to be born in the US anymore than I arranged to be born in The Netherlands. We are just two lucky bastards and the people born in Syria, except for Assad of course, are just unlucky bastards. I did nothing to deserve all the prosperity that I was born into and neither did you.

Now about those numbers, Stalin only had 40 million victims, which is still only 40 % of what happened in the US. Mao only had 70 million, still only 70% of what happened in the US.

So really, you are the one that needs to get your figures straight, not me.

And the rest of your story, about Europe not being able to defend itself... You really don't know what you are talking about!

I stand by my assertions that any group that is NOT willing to take up arms to defend their own country...

About this piece, Smoothy, that is the problem, that you just don't seem to grasp: the Syrian refugees aren't an organised group! Assad's army is organised, all the terrorists are organised, but the commoners just aren't and they don't have any arms either.

They don't have a second commandment in Syria and like Talaniman pointed out, Assad is being backed by the Russians! How can any group of people stand against Putin! Look at what happened in Afghanistan, how Russia screwed things up there. The Russians are really messing the Middle East up and you can't blame the commoners of those countries for what Russia is doing there for decades!

Even if there was agroup, ready to take up arms, it is really hard to communicate with each other, there is no internet anymore, there are no phonelines. All the other groups are operating internationally and already have infrastructures that they can use.

Russia is really a huge destabalising factor in the world today. If it wasn't for them, MH17 wasn't shot by the Ukrainian separatists and Assad would have long been defeated. There the ones fueling all the wars, for decades now!

Those Dutch (yes I know who owned New York first and they traded it for Suriname in 1674), Spanish, French and English colonists are exactly the people that I am talking about!! You, as a white American, either descend from them, or from later immigrants. Which makes you no better than people migrating today. That is all that I am saying. Yes horrific things happened during the dark ages. I totally agree, all the white people in the US, had ancestors that lived in Europe during the middle ages. If you are white, no matter what spin you try to put on it, you are a descendant of either a European colonist or an European immigrant in the US and that makes you nothing better than a refugee.

But, that is not meant as an insult, because, I clearly respect refugees!

All that you said about the world history is something that I agree with and that only proves my point: if you are white, your ancestors were part of an barbaric Europe (Vikings, Romans, Greeks, crusades, a lot of bad things happened here) and then they either massacred the natives in the US or they went later on, as immigrants to the US.

And before you think that I don't know other things either: every race was once barbaric! We all descend from a savage race, if we go back far enough. That is why I say that you shouldn't act as if you are anything better than anyone else. We all have rotten ancestors! We all have enough to be ashamed off. I never claimed to be perfect. My claim is that none of us are, we are all equal, all part of the human race, and when someone is in trouble, we should help them. What I object to, is that you act as if you are better than a refugee. You didn't arrange to be born in the US anymore than I arranged to be born in The Netherlands. We are just two lucky bastards and the people born in Syria, except for Assad of course, are just unlucky bastards. I did nothing to deserve all the prosperity that I was born into and neither did you.

Now about those numbers, Stalin only had 40 million victims, which is still only 40 % of what happened in the US. Mao only had 70 million, still only 70% of what happened in the US.

So really, you are the one that needs to get your figures straight, not me.

And the rest of your story, about Europe not being able to defend itself... You really don't know what you are talking about!YOU are the one that really doesn't know what you are talking about. How much do you know about Europe's Defense capabilities... how many Military bases have you ever been on in Europe. I learned quite a bit about how limited Europe's capabilities were during Desert Shield and Desert Storm, actually at that time I was privy to ALL that info on a daily basis. Also You really don't follow the news... because the USA actually accounts for MOST of Europe's total Defense spending.

You are in your early 20's right? You have to be because you are so far off target for the reality of so many things you can't be much older.

Also Unless you are a full blooded descendant of native Americans... then your descendants were Spanish and responsible for killing off MOST of the Inca and Aztec empire... through murder, enslavement or just through disease.

I don't know where you get this crap from about the Massacres of Indians like all they did was go through and kill every last one of them. YOu really had some seriously misinformed idiots for teachers. But then.. liberals just invent things when reality doesn't fit their agenda... Its well known and proven time and time again. There were a few...and only a few...and the numbers at each event were never that great because they didn't live in huge communities...

You are the one completely oblivious to the reality of today's world.. as well as actual History... your knowledge about American History is pretty pathetic... Seriously... its really bad. Whomever taught you English.. did a very good job... but with History... they were aweful.

You can rant and rave all you want..but you are still a 20 something that thinks they know far more about things than they actually do....and you aren't going to learn any of it watching some biased news show...or reading some biased newspaper or listening to some biased radio program....and heaven forbid believe half the crap you see on the internet.

And that highlighted quote...did you pull that number out of your butt..or are you dumb enough to even come close to thinking that number is remotely credible.


There were NEVER that many Indians living in the USA...in fact the entire population of the USA In 1900 there were only 79 million people living in the USA TOTAL...

An that's AFTER the massive influx of Europeans..


Look at the numbers

https://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?dsrcid=225439

It shows how completely outrageous your claims were. Whoever told you that was a total and complete idiot. And completely and Utterly false.

Also shows how little you really do know about the world outside of that tiny sliver of land where you reside.

40 million killed by Stalin and YOU claim that was 40% of the Indians Killed here...You need to put that hash pipe down...you are hallucinating.

I stand by my assertions that any group that is NOT willing to take up arms to defend their own country...

About this peace, Smoothy, that is the problem, that you just don't seem to grasp: the Syrian refugees aren't an organised group! Assad's army is organised, all the terrorists are organised, but the commoners just aren't and they don't have any arms either.

They don't have a second commandment in Syria and like Talaniman pointed out, Assad is being backed by the Russians! How can any group of people stand against Putin! Look at what happened in Afghanistan, how Russia screwed things up there. The Russians are really messing the Middle East up and you can't blame the commoners of those countries for what Russia is doing there for decades!

Even if there was agroup, ready to take up arms, it is really hard to communicate with each other, there is no internet anymore, there are no phonelines. All the other groups are operating internationally and already have infrastructures that they can use.

Russia is really a huge destabalising factor in the world today. If it wasn't for them, MH17 wasn't shot by the Ukrainian separatists and Assad would have long been defeated. There the ones fueling all the wars, for decades now!


Any person NOT willing to take up arms to defend their home country... deserves to be taken out and shot by those running it. Sorry.. I have ZERO respect for anyone unwilling to do that. And I don't want them living near me either. They are cowards. Plain and simple.

Considering that there were only about 17 million people in America (North and South) in 1492, and that it was illness , not war that killed an estimated 90 percent of them. I think that there are facts that were learned, that are not true.

In fact, if one considered mixed blood, up to 1/4, there are actually more native american people today, than there was in 1492 when that big "white invasion" happened.

There were many killed of course, and land taken, but the death toll of the entire American national people, over 300 years, would not have been near the deaths of China, or Russia, or Germany.

Smoothy, there are many rumours flying but where did you hear that people in Germany are being evicted in favour of refugees? My son lives in Germany and only reports that in his small town on the German/Dutch border there are more then usual people waundering about. He will be here in two weeks, so I will hear more about this I am sure.

Merkel knows what she is doing. Germany is one of the best run countries in the EU?

Smoothy, there are many rumours flying but where did you hear that people in Germany are being evicted in favour of refugees? My son lives in Germany and only reports that in his small town on the German/Dutch border there are more then usual people waundering about. He will be here in two weeks, so I will hear more about this I am sure.

Merkel knows what she is doing. Germany is one of the best run countries in the EU?

I don't believe it either, but since it is impossible to prove that something doesn't happen, I just pointed out that they are lying that this happens in The Netherlands, while it doesn't.

But if it would happen, it would be all over the news of course. Germany is a democracy, you can't just evict people out of their homes!

Considering that there were only about 17 million people in America (North and South) in 1492, and that it was illness , not war that killed an estimated 90 percent of them. I think that there are facts that were learned, that are not true.

In fact, if one considered mixed blood, up to 1/4, there are actually more native american people today, than there was in 1492 when that big "white invasion" happened.

There were many killed of course, and land taken, but the death toll of the entire American national people, over 300 years, would not have been near the deaths of China, or Russia, or Germany.

That's what I learned in school, but unfortunately, it was deliberate, babies were smacked against rocks!

Just some examples:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act

History News Network | Were American Indians the Victims of Genocide? (http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/7302)

Atrocities Against Native Americans - United to End Genocide (http://endgenocide.org/learn/past-genocides/native-americans/)


Any person NOT willing to take up arms to defend their home country... deserves to be taken out and shot by those running it. Sorry.. I have ZERO respect for anyone unwilling to do that. And I don't want them living near me either. They are cowards. Plain and simple.

Well, your ancestors left their home countries in Europe, instead of taking up arms to improve their lifes there, so according to your own logic, they deserve to be shot.

They are not cowards, you are just a victim blamer, because you are too greedy to help your fellow human beings.

And you still haven't answered Wondergirl's question, which only proves that you just can't reason your way out of this.

So I am done with responding to you, because there is just no use to respond to so much willfull ignorance.

I have moved this to the discussion board area, where there is more "freedom" of comments.

I will say that it is amusing, that the person who seems so open to one people, is not open to accept that many people do not agree with them.

That an idea of racist is not just against the refugees, but if someone things ill of another race, (perhaps white Europeans)

I have moved this to the discussion board area, where there is more "freedom" of comments.

I will say that it is amusing, that the person who seems so open to one people, is not open to accept that many people do not agree with them.

That an idea of racist is not just against the refugees, but if someone things ill of another race, (perhaps white Europeans)

You totally misunderstand me.

I have no problems with white European or any white people based on their race. All that I am trying to say is that no race is better than another, because every single human being living on this earth is a descendant of savage, barbaric ancestors, including me. Smoothy wants to think that he is better than Syrian people, but no one is better than anyone else.

He is the one that started calling the Dutch a laughing stock, while he might be part Dutch himself, that is all that I was trying to achieve: don't look down upon other people, when you yourself are living in a country that is stolen from the native Americans.

Soaring rhetoric and blame/name calling often begets the same thing back. Human nature and a fact during such discussions. The true test of racism comes from the power exercised over another not some screaming match over who is the master race.

That we have a war being fought only highlights the divisions of hate as Assad staves off his Arab spring thanks to Vlad.

Soaring rhetoric and blame/name calling often begets the same thing back. Human nature and a fact during such discussions. The true test of racism comes from the power exercised over another not some screaming match over who is the master race.

That we have a war being fought only highlights the divisions of hate as Assad staves off his Arab spring thanks to Vlad.

I am really not trying to blame anyone, I am only trying to explain that the Syrians are innocent victims and not terrorists, like Smoothy claims.

But you are right. My approach clearly isn't working, people misunderstand me for being racist. So how else can I stop people from believing and spreading lies like all Muslims are terrorists? From saying that women in the UK and France are being beheaded for not wearing burqa's, that there is Sharia there, when all of that just simply isn't true?

There were rumours that there was a Sharia area in a neighbourhood here in The Hague, it also turned out to be false.

Smoothy, there are many rumours flying but where did you hear that people in Germany are being evicted in favour of refugees? My son lives in Germany and only reports that in his small town on the German/Dutch border there are more then usual people waundering about. He will be here in two weeks, so I will hear more about this I am sure.

Merkel knows what she is doing. Germany is one of the best run countries in the EU?Tickle... I read it in one of my news sources in the last several weeks. Its NOT been widely covered... and in fact is being ignored because its not politically correct. And it effects renters significantly more than property owners. If you remember European renters tend to stay put sometimes for decades and don't move around frequently.

As far as Germany being the Best run country in Europe... I won't disagree, I think the Average Boy Scout troop could do better than most of the other countries there countries do. Though it still does a lot that's wrong. And The European News agencies are even more biased and corrupt than our own are (And the BBC is one of the worst)... based on thousands of different points I've seen in reality vs. what they chose to tell the public over 30+ years of having access to them.

I don't believe it either, but since it is impossible to prove that something doesn't happen, I just pointed out that they are lying that this happens in The Netherlands, while it doesn't.

But if it would happen, it would be all over the news of course. Germany is a democracy, you can't just evict people out of their homes!You really believe everything you hear on the news? Then you really are seriously misguided and misinformed then. Because most of what you think you know is as wrong as those numbers you were throwing around and arguing were FACT about 40 Million Russians killed being only 40% of American Indians killed. Which YOUR wildly inaccurate and unprovable claim would be that 100 million Indians were Killed. When there were not even a fraction of that in TOTAL EVER inhabiting the Entire USA region until well into the 1900's.

And you are wrong about a lot of your other claims as well.

And you still won't rant and rave about the Dutch cooperating with the Nazi's in nearly wiping out the ENTIRE population of Jews in Europe...along with the French, the Belgians, Spanish, Portuguese, and every other country with the exception of the UK.

Those number are real....those occurred during the actual lifespans of people still alive today...some of whom survived those camps. Also...in your indignance... you also failed to acknowledge the slavery YOUR ancestors participated in. Slavery was alive and well in the American Continent eons before the first European ever set foot here. And some of the worst were in YOUR ancestors part of the world even if SPANISH isn't a major part of your ancestry.

Also Unless you are a full blooded descendant of native Americans... then your descendants were Spanish and responsible for killing off MOST of the Inca and Aztec empire... through murder, enslavement or just through disease.




Regardig this part of your text Smoothy, I already wrote before you made that remark:


I am half Surinamese Indian, a quarter Jewish, indigenous Surinamese, African and Chinese.

What the Dutch did in colonial era's wasn't pretty either. First they enslaved my indigenous great-great-grandmother, but when they realised that the indigeous people weren't strong enough to work like cattle on the plantations (sugar, cotton, cocoa, coffee etc), they obducted my African ancestors from Africa, shipped them all the way to Curaçao and from there to Suriname to work on the plantations. When slavery was abolished, the colonisers were still too lazy and weak to do hard labour themselves, so then they went to India and recruited my mothers family to do the heavy work at the plantations.

So you don't read what I write and on top of that, you are clearly not familiar with the history of Suriname. This is only more evidence, that trying to have an honest discussion with you is just a waste of my time.

But again for the record: no one's descendance is of any relevance, because we all descend from ancestors that committed atrocities.

You really believe everything you hear on the news? Then you really are seriously misguided and misinformed then.

I never said that. But if something like that would happen, Geert Wilders would have made a big deal of it and that would have made the news.

Why do keep insisting on trying to put me down, instead of answering Wondergirls question?

All that you are achieving like this, is that you confirm that you can't be reasoned with.

Regardig this part of your text Smoothy, I already wrote before you made that remark:



So you don't read what I write and on top of that, you are clearly not familiar with the history of Suriname. This is only more evidence, that trying to have an honest discussion with you is just a waste of my time.

But again for the record: no one's descendance is of any relevance, because we all descend from ancestors that committed atrocities.

Based on your demonstrated lack of knowledge in history particularly American history... and the wild numbers you throw around as fact... sorry... My knowledge of history far exceeds your own. Until you start quoting Really facts instead of making up your own as you go... YOU are the one here not participating in a honest Discussion.

Facts are facts... they do not change with the political winds... Liberals believe facts are relative and can change... when they aren't and don't.

And you STILL ignore the fact your ancestors enslaved others long before the Dutch or any Europeans set foot here. SO don't cry indignance when your own people did the same thing eons longer.

Have you even considered the fact that YOUR viewpoints are the ones that are wrong and need consideration?

And you never answered another question....how old are you? Your arguments and writing style indicate high school age to early 20's at most....

Any person NOT willing to take up arms to defend their home country... deserves to be taken out and shot by those running it. Sorry.. I have ZERO respect for anyone unwilling to do that. And I don't want them living near me either. They are cowards. Plain and simple.
If you lived in Syria, which of all those groups fighting in that country would you fight for?

And bombs are falling all over, people are being butchered, so how would you protect your family?

You really believe everything you hear on the news? Then you really are seriously misguided and misinformed then. Because most of what you think you know is as wrong as those numbers you were throwing around and arguing were FACT about 40 Million Russians killed being only 40% of American Indians killed. Which YOUR wildly inaccurate and unprovable claim would be that 100 million Indians were Killed. When there were not even a fraction of that in TOTAL EVER inhabiting the Entire USA region until well into the 1900's.

And you are wrong about a lot of your other claims as well.

And you still won't rant and rave about the Dutch cooperating with the Nazi's in nearly wiping out the ENTIRE population of Jews in Europe...along with the French, the Belgians, Spanish, Portuguese, and every other country with the exception of the UK.

Those number are real....those occurred during the actual lifespans of people still alive today...some of whom survived those camps. Also...in your indignance... you also failed to acknowledge the slavery YOUR ancestors participated in. Slavery was alive and well in the American Continent eons before the first European ever set foot here. And some of the worst were in YOUR ancestors part of the world even if SPANISH isn't a major part of your ancestry.

OMG.

Yes some of the Dutch corroborated with the Germans, but there was also a resistance. Those were not my ancestors though, because I don't have Dutch ancestors, I already told you my ancestry twice now. My family didn't move to The Netherlands until the 1960's and 1970's.

Yes, slavery was a worldwide phenomenon. I don't know my family history as far back to know if they ever owned slaves, but there is a huge possibility that they did.

Like I said earlier, I don't disagree with you on those historical facts. But to me those historical facts only prove that none of us has the right to pretend that we are from a better race than the Syrians are nowadays.

I can't even count how often I already said this on this thread. So why are you trying to discredit me with something that I don't even contest? I am nothing better than you and nothing better than a Syrian refugee. You are the only one here that is trying to blame the refugees and not wanting to help them, because you feel like you are better than them.

I say, we are all equal and we should all help each other.

OMG.

Yes some of the Dutch corroborated with the Germans, but there was also a resistance. Those were not my ancestors though, because I don't have Dutch ancestors, I already told you my ancestry twice now. My family didn't move to The Netherlands until the 1960's and 1970's.

Yes, slavery was a worldwide phenomenon. I don't know my family history as far back to know if they ever owned slaves, but there is a huge possibility that they did.

Like I said earlier, I don't disagree with you on those historical facts. But to me those historical facts only prove that none of us has the right to pretend that we are from a better race than the Syrians are nowadays.

I can't even count how often I already said this on this thread. So why are you trying to discredit me with something that I don't even contest? I am nothing better than you and nothing better than a Syrian refugee. You are the only one here that is trying to blame the refugees and not wanting to help them, because you feel like you are better than them.

I say, we are all equal and we should all help each other.

Still ignoring facts... YOUR ancestors held slaves... ALL native American tribes (North, Central and South participated in this) and you claiming otherwise shows how you are selectively ignoring facts, it was an accepted part of their culture. And you still refuse to accept the fact that someone other than you is right about anything. Face it.. accept it, embrace it.

Seriously... how old are you?

People are not equal... never were never will be.

Some people are just dumb as stumps and have no valuable skills what so ever... others are highly intelligent and good at everything they try... the rest fall somewhere in between. That is anything but equal.

Some are not worth as much as others... and nobody is entitled to anything more than they are able to earn themselves.

Everyone being equal in all things (and "entitled" to equal an share in things) is a socialist and a liberal concept. And no everyone isn't entitled to help... particularly if they are unwilling to help themselves first. Particularly if they created the mess they find themselves in.

Not when it costs someone elses money...and someone elses blood, and the person demanding help won't risk either of their own.

Liberals tend to blame Americans...and specifically Southern Americans for Slavery....ignoring everything else...including world history. And fail to ignore the Slavers who actually captured the slaves and took them to the Coast were also blacks...who then sold them to European slavers who then sold then to American Plantation owners....giving all the OTHER participants a free pass. And also ignoring that American Indians practiced the same things. Some far more brutal than others.

And the Feudal system in Europe was far more brutal because at least slaves had value and were treated better as a result. Better is a relative thing....but important for perspective vs serfs who had no value to the royalty individually.

Still ignoring facts... YOUR ancestors held slaves... ALL native American tribes (North, Central and South participated in this) and you claiming otherwise shows how you are selectively ignoring facts, it was an accepted part of their culture. And you still refuse to accept the fact that someone other than you is right about anything. Face it.. accept it, embrace it.

Seriously... how old are you?

People are not equal... never were never will be.

Some people are just dumb as stumps and have no valuable skills what so ever... others are highly intelligent and good at everything they try... the rest fall somewhere in between. That is anything but equal.

Some are not worth as much as others... and nobody is entitled to anything more than they are able to earn themselves.

Everyone being equal in all things (and "entitled" to equal an share in things) is a socialist and a liberal concept. And no everyone isn't entitled to help... particularly if they are unwilling to help themselves first. Particularly if they created the mess they find themselves in themselves.

I am done. I am only writing this, so that you know that I won't be responding anymore to all the nonsense that you write and to all the twisting of my words that you do.

Goodbye.

I am done. I am only writing this, so that you know that I won't be responding anymore to all the nonsense that you write and to all the twisting of my words that you do.

Goodbye.
Or poor thing... Your "facts" exist only in your head... You are in High school, aren't you? Since all you have done is regurgitate something some teacher told you... which has proven to be grossly inaccurate. So you pick up your ball and go home rather than admit you were mistake or wrong about everything.

Its time you learn your world view as a teenager is grossly wrong...and most things you believe as a teenager (into your early 20's) is also grossly inaccurate and based on ideology instead or reality. And that is common among the very young....they don't have enough life experience yet to see what reality is like....and when they actually have to start paying for all these free things they used to demand...instead of just receive them...ten reality sinks in...why are they working hard to give it to someone else who isn't or hasn't paid their dues yet.

Rant all you want...it doesn't change the reality of the world around you... and NOT seeing things for how they are in todays world can get you killed. That illegal immigrant you invited in your home might cut your throat in your sleep and take everything you own. THAT is reality....Most are not nice people...just like the fact that MILLIONS of Muslims support Terrorism and terrorist ideology. An intelligent person doesn't ignore that just because a handful are actually nice.

No, smoothy, she hasn't been a teen for many years. Please answer my questions as to what you would do and which group you would fight for if you lived in Syria. And yes, that country is a mess.

No, smoothy, she hasn't been a teen for many years. Please answer my questions as to what you would do and which group you would fight for if you lived in Syria. And yes, that country is a mess.Well she certainly writes and acts like someone in their late teens to early 20's who has not been out in the real world for long if ever. Debating style is VERY high school like. Based on Ideology instead of fact.

And who would I support if I was in Syria? I would be on Assad's side... no he isn't a nice person... but then neither is Obama. At least Assad kept the less desirable crowd under control. And because he isn't a Muslim Fanatic like most of the opposition.

I have no use for Muslim fanatics....ever, anywhere. All they do is cause trouble and oppress anyone NOT like them anywhere they are.

I would be on Assad's side.

I always thought you would make a great dictator, so it's no wonder you would take the side of a brutal dictator and Vlad the Conqueror.

I always thought you would make a great dictator, so it's no wonder you would take the side of a brutal dictator and Vlad the Conqueror.

The lesser of evils... choices we as adults frequently have to make. And sometimes the dictator is the better choice than the opposition. Look at Libya, Egypt... not to mention Syria. Your choices aren't always Good vs. Evil. But often who is the least evil.

Is there more the US could do to resolve the Syrian problem?

Is there more the US could do to resolve the Syrian problem?

That point has long past... Obama and his stooges decided to back the Muslim Brotherhood ergo... ISIS... vs the right group in the beginning and made it worse.

We saw what happened in Libya and Egypt. Anyone who didn't see this mess coming a mile away is blind.

I say we arm everyone over there, (small arms only, nothing big) let them kill each other... then go in and kill whomever wins if they aren't what we consider "good people".

People in that part of the world are not civilized... nor do they grasp the concept of Democracy. And none of them can be trusted. Few of them have progressed in mindset in over 1,400 years.

Is there more the US could do to resolve the Syrian problem?

The US could negotiate between the Turkish and the Peshmerga and with both armies fight as an allied force against Assad and all the terrorists. Maybe other armies are willing to join, like Jordan, Israel, Egypt, they are all fighting against the Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda and IS.

Except they don't like each other and don't really share enough common interest...(which is a HUGE thing) and who is going to pay for it? Assad as bad as he might have been... is still far better than all the alternatives in that area. THe last thing the world needs is another Muslim theocracy oppressing everyone and committing genocide against all non-Muslims.

And what I mean is..a common enemy isn't usually enough reason for people to work together that don't like each other....

Logistics and Command are two HUGE aspects besides the costs incurred with Military actions.

So smoothy I would think your solution has been tried anyone who wanted to fight over there has been armed, obviously it isn't important enough for millions so maybe Assard is right he has been fighting terrorists, and the arab spring never happened. To me it all comes down to the dirty dealings the US has been involved in over a long time, this is George Bush's legacy and it will be Obama's because when it comes down to it it is about projecting power something Putin understands

So smoothy I would think your solution has been tried anyone who wanted to fight over there has been armed, obviously it isn't important enough for millions so maybe Assard is right he has been fighting terrorists, and the arab spring never happened. To me it all comes down to the dirty dealings the US has been involved in over a long time, this is George Bush's legacy and it will be Obama's because when it comes down to it it is about projecting power something Putin understands

George Bush had NOTHING to do with the Arab Spring don't put the blame on him... that was all Obama's Doing... on Obamas watch. HE sided with the Muslim brotherhood despite everyone's advice and objections.

And its more like an Arab winter because its been one disaster after another. And even then.. with all the degenerates and malcontents and the lunatic radicals in that armpit of the world... its not even all Obama's fault. ( Hate to find myself defending HIM of all people)

Libya, Egypt and Syria were all better off under dictators....none of them really deserved any better...and their behavior ( the people) in recent years proves it. It took brutal dictators to keep them from trying to kill each other. As proven by what happened when that balance was disturbed or the Dictators removed....they resort to trying to kill each other like the animals they are.

Like the American during the Civil War?

Were those the northern animals, or the southern animals, Tal? Both sides handed out some brutal treatment. Look, smoothy, is right! Those arabs in Syria, Iraq and Libya are little more than animals, settling their age old grieviences and Egypt isn't much better. While these characters fight amonst themselves no one has to worry about Israel which gets on with subjecting the palestinians who are tarred with the same brush. I expect that if you subscribe to a medieval philosophy, your thinking and actions will be medieval. We want to end this? End Islam and its rabid philosopy of world domination. The Arabs know nothing but allegiance to a strong leader usually one with the backing of religion, democracy is only an idea they have heard of, but they don't understand it. This is why they run into the streets shouting when ever anything happens

And how do you end Islam?

Let us be honest here most of us are not born racist, we become racist, or intolerant of certain groups, because of the behaviour we observe and are subjected to.

I agree that migrants should assimulate, if there is any country where the multiracial experiment has failed it is mine. What have we got out of it, large number of unwanted migrants calling themselves refugees. Some are refugees from war zones but many are economic migrants, particularly the young men who are sent and financed by their families. Whole surburbs have been turned into ghettos and we have asian crime gangs, home invasions, gun violence, drugs. We only have to read the court lists or newspaper reports to see the ethnicity of most of the offenders. There aren't too many Smith's or Jones' among them. We even have New Zealand complaining we are sending their criminals back.

Now I understand that to most of the world this is paradise, rarely known war on its soil, good climate, good welfare and medical system, modern housing, modern transport, religious tolerance, stable government, etc. Is it too much to ask that a new comer might learn to speak english? Or abide by our laws such as the age of consent? But what do we get? Welfare cheats, criminals

All those things you have mentioned are conditions already found in most societies already. It's a bit much though to expect migrants (You say refugees but we all know you mean foreigners) to assimilate instantly to the new climate they find themselves in, fraught with prejudice and demands from the new people who they encounter.

You have to expect they need help to acclimate. Directing them to a ghetto that's already poor and (Not to mention the subhuman condition of "processing centers") destitute and dependent on your goodwill is the choice of the ruling class policy makers.

You know your elected representatives.

Other ethnic groups managed to assimilate under those conditions... but then... maybe they were just more evolved.

Of course.. there is this novel concept... they stay in the general region they are from and NOT think they are entitled to go anyplace they want halfway around the world. There are a LOT of countries they had to pass through before getting to Europe. They should stay in one of them...

And no they aren't refugees... they are economic opportunists...

My German ancestors came to this country to get away from the German revolutions of 1848-49 and for economic reasons. They bought land (coincidentally, a mile or two from where I live now), farmed, and eventually learned English. Were they refugees? immigrants? economic opportunists?

THey didn't have Islamic Terrorists bend on killing non-muslims (outside of the area they infested anyway) in the 1800's. There also wasn't welfare in the 1800's you worked or you starved to death,

My German ancestors came to this country to get away from the German revolutions of 1848-49 and for economic reasons. They bought land (coincidentally, a mile or two from where I live now), farmed, and eventually learned English. Were they refugees? immigrants? economic opportunists?

Well, if their lifes were in danger because of the revolutions they were refugees. They were also immigrants: every refugee is also an immigrant, but not every immigrant is a refugee.

Everybody in the US, except for the slaves and the native Americans, is either an immigrant or a descendant of immigrants.

Really... Why JUST America... how about The Caribbean, South America, and Central America too.. not to mention Canada, and Austailian etc... Everyone in THOSE places NOT 100% native Indian were Immigrants there too... and that's MOST of the populations in those places.

Same with Blacks anywhere outside of Africa... Asians anywhere outside of Asia... Or is this really just about bashing the USA....who pays for almost everything these days? Perfect reason to kick the UN out of the USA and stop funding ANYTHING outside the USA.

Let the rest of the world step up for once and pay their fair share.

If the slaves weren't immigrants, what would they be called?

And most of the Native Americans came from somewhere else, so they were refugees or immigrants.

If the slaves weren't immigrants, what would they be called?

And most of the Native Americans came from somewhere else, so they were refugees or immigrants.

ANd actually that is spot on correct... same with Europe and Asia...

None of them evolved from apes there or were dropped off by some mothership like that idiot Louis Farakhan likes to believe.

Prevailing Scientific theory has it that EVERYONE is from Africa originally. Including everyone in Suriname....they ALL originated someplace else.


And every Nation on earth has the RIGHT to control their borders and dictate who can and can not enter. And how.

Since this was disputed as actually happening earlier... Germans being evicted to give housing to Illegals.

https://www.rt.com/news/316568-germany-nurse-eviction-refugees/

I know for a fact entire NEW apartment complexes are being built to house illegals in Italy with NO wait, while Italian citizens wait for decades to move into appartments nearly 70 years old or anything better. Because I have seen them myself. And have enough friends and family that work inside the Justice System there that backs it up.

If the slaves weren't immigrants, what would they be called?

And most of the Native Americans came from somewhere else, so they were refugees or immigrants.

Obductees! They came involuntarily.

Do you mean that the native Americans came from Asia in the Iceage? I wouldn't call that immigrating, chasing mammoths over a continent. You are only an immigrant if there are already people living in a country, but if you are the first one there, you're the native population.

Otherwise, everybody except for the people in Africa is an immigrant, because homo sapiens originates from Africa.

And the "American Indians" were not the first there... they have fossilized proof ( in the last few years) the people here earlier were pushed out and killed off by the newcomers... as they shared NO genetic DNA with the current American Indians (or any further south). They were here hundreds or thousands of years earlier than the oldest dated fossilized "native Americans" .

What about the Tigris-Euphrates area, the Fertile Triangle? Isn't there a belief that there was a native population there, too? (And I'm not talking about the Garden of Eden. I mean archeological evidence.)

What about the Tigris-Euphrates area, the Fertile Triangle? Isn't there a belief that there was a native population there, too? (And I'm not talking about the Garden of Eden. I mean archeological evidence.) The Oldest (known) recorded civilization was from there. But that is long after the oldest dated humanoid fossils

The Sumarians, or before that?

What about the Tigris-Euphrates area, the Fertile Triangle? Isn't there a belief that there was a native population there, too? (And I'm not talking about the Garden of Eden. I mean archeological evidence.)

When and where did our species originate? - Australian Museum (http://australianmuseum.net.au/when-and-where-did-our-species-originate)

This article was only published five days ago. Modern men really seems to have their origin in Africa.

Thanks, misspurple. That's a very interesting article. Don't you wish we could do time travel back to that period? Hmmmm, maybe I'll write a novel or, more likely, a short story with "Out of Africa" as a theme.

Thanks, misspurple. That's a very interesting article. Don't you wish we could do time travel back to that period? Hmmmm, maybe I'll write a novel or, more likely, a short story with "Out of Africa" as a theme.

O yes, I love movies like 10.000 BC, prehistoric times are really fascinating!

O yes, I love movies like 10.000 BC, prehistoric times are really fascinating!
If we time travel, let's be sure to take a bagful of antibiotics, aspirin, bandaids, soap, etc.!

If we time travel, let's be sure to take a bagful of antibiotics, aspirin, bandaids, soap, etc.!

I would like to travel in some sort of dino cage, like in Jurasssic World. A hamster ball, but made of steel of course, not like in Jurassic World, because those don't exist yet, so that we can roll around in between the scary sabre tooth tigers, mammoths etc. If people feed sharks they are also in a cage. Those days were really dangerous!

And if you haven't seen Jurassic World yet, that movie is really a must see:-D!

We can also bring walkie talkies, we don't need a network for them to work!

Will that make us refugees or immigrants (thinking about the question that started this thread) -- or guests or explorers? Or maybe just time travelers....

Will that make us refugees or immigrants (thinking about the question that started this thread) -- or guests or explorers? Or maybe just time travelers....

Tourists! Guests or explorers, I have no intention of staying there!

But if we only travel back in time, and not to another place, we are only timetravelers;-).

Tourists! Guests or explorers, I have no intention of staying there!
Maybe like Claire in Diana Gabaldon's (time-travel) Outlander series, you'll fall in love with a guy from long ago. ;)

Maybe like Claire in Diana Gabaldon's (time-travel) Outlander series, you'll fall in love with a guy from long ago. ;)

I don't know that series.

But I can't imagine falling in love with a guy so deeply, that I would want to give things like hot showers, sunscreen, birth control, wifi, IMAX, chocolate, sushi, microwaves, TV shows such as The Walking Dead, Game of Thrones, Vikings and Supernatural up for him.

We have a TV series here, "Grenzeloos verliefd" In Love without borders, in which mostly Dutch women, move to the most outrageous places for love. One woman moved to Uganda. Another to the pampa's of Argentina, to live without water and electricity in the middle of nowhere, one even to Suriname, to move in with her in laws, while her Surinamese boyfriend was gone all week, to work in the gold mines in the inlands.

I haven't seen much episodes, but most stories don't end happy, and I am always looking at that show full of disbelief, how can these women do that to themselves!

Leaving their houses with running water and electrity to move somewhere without them or with a lot less privacy!

Those women are immigrants, but definitely not economic refugees, because they had better lifes here!

You are very niaive, have you ever lived without running water or in a alternative life style?

You are very niaive, have you ever lived without running water or in a alternative life style?

I have camped sometimes and I hated it. I don't like missing the modern utilities, you can call me spoiled, but that doesn't make me naïve.

I lived in Suriname for four years. We didn't had warm water, I hated it. A lot of people didn't had running water at all, I hated going over to their houses. Electricity often fell out, I really didn't like that.

So if I miss it for just a short time, I don't want to spend my life without it.

Just because you may have a different opinion on this, doesn't mean that I am naïve.

Almost all relationships on that TV show ended badly, because the differences were too big. I know myself good enough to not even put myself in that position. Having self knowledge is the exact opposite of naivety.

You are very niaive, have you ever lived without running water or in a alternative life style?
I wouldn't say she's naive. I spent my honeymoon camping in a musty pup tent, no showers, and eating canned beef stew. At least we didn't have to eat the bugs that swarmed around us. Toilet facilities were behind a bush or in a porta-potty. I was 21 and thought of it as an adventure until the second week.

Have you ever lived in an alternative situation or "roughed it," paraclete?

You are very niaive, have you ever lived without running water or in a alternative life style?

A lot of relationships that I know of, ended because one of the two wanted to live in Suriname and the other didn't. That is just reality, it has nothing to do with naivety.

I don't want to live there. My exboyfriend thought that he could persuade me to move there, but he was wrong. I am rather single in The Netherlands than there with him.

When I lived there, I also really missed good television, but fortunately, there are possibilities for better television now, than there were, twenty years ago when I lived there.

I have living relatives that spent almost half their lives without indoor plumbing (they had on old hand pump that required priming every time it was used, and yes its still there and it still works) or an indoor bathroom. Yes they were that poor. And yes that was IN the USA. Research Appalachia.

No they didn't have TV... or a phone either, they didn't even have a car and there wasn't public transportation either.

I have living relatives that spent almost half their lives without indoor plumbing (they had on old hand pump that required priming every time it was used, and yes its still there and it still works) or an indoor bathroom. Yes they were that poor. And yes that was IN the USA. Research Appalachia.

No they didn't have TV... or a phone either, they didn't even have a car and there wasn't public transportation either.
One of the two NC churches my minister dad served (1949-1955) was in the hills. The people lived in shacks, had outhouses, no running water, and a still or two back in the woods. And they were generous to a fault! My dad often came home with apples, berries, and even a live chicken that my Idaho-farm-girl mom killed for Sunday dinner.

One of the two NC churches my minister dad served (1949-1955) was in the hills. The people lived in shacks, had outhouses, no running water, and a still or two back in the woods. And they were generous to a fault! My dad often came home with apples, berries, and even a live chicken that my Idaho-farm-girl mom killed for Sunday dinner.

And the situation with my relatives while I don't remember an exact year... was at least past 1970. I think the last one actually got their first indoor bathroom around 1980. I do remember when that happened. The original house mentioned burned down in the 60's... and was rebuilt with a smaller one... which to this day still doesn't have plumbing or a bathroom... and that old cast iron hand pump is still on the porch outside the kitchen where it always was for at least the last 90+ years.

Still in the family...(cousin owns it now) but its just a weekend place these days.

Just for the record I was brought up in a house with an outdoor privy and at one stage a chip heater for hot bath water. We were also known to kill our own poultry and grow our own veg. I pioneered a property with a 2kva generator and no running water. This means I can understand how difficult it can be, however please remember that the migrants in Europe have placed themselves in the position of having no shelter, etc. Some people don't know they are alive until they get out of their comfort zone.

You guy had it so hard, but nothing like bombs bursting in air. Comfort zone indeed!

LOL, migrating to a new land was just fine for euros running from whatever but when others run from their land for whatever they are cowards and terrorists. Why didn't your ancestors stay and fight for their freedoms and rights in their native land? They had no problem fighting for the adopted one.

I find it both humorous and hypocritical one immigrant calling another illegal (among other names) because he came first. In truth this latest mass migration is no different than past migrations of humans.

Just louder by entitled snobs who forget where they came from.

Just for the record I was brought up in a house with an outdoor privy and at one stage a chip heater for hot bath water. We were also known to kill our own poultry and grow our own veg. I pioneered a property with a 2kva generator and no running water. This means I can understand how difficult it can be, however please remember that the migrants in Europe have placed themselves in the position of having no shelter, etc. Some people don't know they are alive until they get out of their comfort zone.

I totally agree with you. But that doesn't make it naïve of me that I don't want to live in prehistoric times for a guy.

I really believe that the opposite is true, all those women that leave their luxury lifes for love and realise later on that they are not happy in the middle of nowhere without running water, elektricity or privacy.

I live in my own apartment for 13 years now. I still often have nightmares that I suddenly live in a dorm again or back with my parents. I am really too attached to my own place with my own kitchen and bathroom, that I really don't want to give that up to live like a hunter/gatherer in prehistoric times.

You guy had it so hard, but nothing like bombs bursting in air. Comfort zone indeed!

LOL, migrating to a new land was just fine for euros running from whatever but when others run from their land for whatever they are cowards and terrorists. Why didn't your ancestors stay and fight for their freedoms and rights in their native land? They had no problem fighting for the adopted one.

I find it both humorous and hypocritical one immigrant calling another illegal (among other names) because he came first. In truth this latest mass migration is no different than past migrations of humans.

Just louder by entitled snobs who forget where they came from.

If they were ONLY concerned about their own skin... why did they not stop at the dozen other Muslim countries just outside the border of Syria. Why does it HAVE to be Europe or nothing.

Fact is it doesn't. Syria doesn't even border Europe...and certainly NOT Germany not by a long shot.

You guy had it so hard, but nothing like bombs bursting in air. Comfort zone indeed!

LOL, migrating to a new land was just fine for euros running from whatever but when others run from their land for whatever they are cowards and terrorists. Why didn't your ancestors stay and fight for their freedoms and rights in their native land? They had no problem fighting for the adopted one.

I find it both humorous and hypocritical one immigrant calling another illegal (among other names) because he came first. In truth this latest mass migration is no different than past migrations of humans.

Just louder by entitled snobs who forget where they came from.

I totally agree! That is exactly what I am trying to say all along!

OK we agree.. Send them ALL to the Netherlands. Let the Dutch pay for everything. The rest of Europe doesn't want them... and the rest of the world doesn't either. Catch any on my property swiping anything or syphoning fuel out of my vehicles and they are getting shot to death on the spot. And so will most people around here. Make them wish they stayed in their own country.

I don't want them near me...and as long as any of MY hard earned money (I.E. tax dollars) is being wasted on even one of them I have the right to raise holy he11 about it.

I bet there are honest good hard working people that have been LEGALLY trying to immigrate for years being told sorry but you can't while illegals get in, get free housing, food and welfare with ZERO wait. No outrage about the people who followed the law and got screwed.

Tal let me put it to you this way, my ancestors fought for their freedom until they saw an opportunity on the other side of the world, unless you are native or african american your ancstors might have a similar tale but they came here legally generations ago. I don't object to migration what I object to is those who think they can just walk in and be looked after without contibuting anything or even seeking a visa. This not the dark ages. The syrians in Europe are similar, just deciding to walk in without any formalities. Complete arrogance. The europeans did not make war in Syria, they have no obligation to take them and one day they will wish they hadn't, just as France does. What I don't understand is the ethnic germans had serious problems with a semetic population some time ago and yet they are inviting another semetic people into thie country, it can only end badly.

Assard is a bad dude but he is no different to those who oppose him with violence, Saddam was bad but look at what replaced him. The problems that existed in that part of the wprld are migrating with them

Tal let me put it to you this way, my ancestors fought for their freedom until they saw an opportunity on the other side of the world, unless you are native or african american your ancstors might have a similar tale but they came here legally generations ago. I don't object to migration what I object to is those who think they can just walk in and be looked after without contibuting anything or even seeking a visa. This not the dark ages. The syrians in Europe are similar, just deciding to walk in without any formalities. Complete arrogance. The europeans did not make war in Syria, they have no obligation to take them and one day they will wish they hadn't, just as France does. What I don't understand is the ethnic germans had serious problems with a semetic population some time ago and yet they are inviting another semetic people into thie country, it can only end badly.

Assard is a bad dude but he is no different to those who oppose him with violence, Saddam was bad but look at what replaced him. The problems that existed in that part of the wprld are migrating with them

The guy is named ASSAD!! Not Assard.

Most refugees don't simply walk into Europe. They apply for a visa. They don't want to be here illegal and most of they do want a job.

In The Netherlands welfare is enough to live off, but it isn't a nice life. I wouldn't want to live off welfare, then you are really poor. I am on disability now, but that is only temporarily, until I am healthy enough to work again. Disability is 70% of what your salary was, with a maximum of € 3000,- a month. For me 70 % of my salary is fortunately a lot more than welfare is.

Some people that are outside of The Netherlands think, what, welfare, € 700,- a month for a single person and € 1000,- for a couple! That is so much money. But life is expensive here, so people that actually live of welfare, are complaining about it.

It isn't that easy to get welfare either. You are obligated to look for a job. They check your job applications and they can stop your welfare if you aren't doing enough. They can also mandate you to work for it: sweep the streets, work as a receptionist at a public office, check the tickets of people that travel with public transportation etc. Years ago people took advantage of welfare, so the rules got stricter. And so they should!! Welfare is meant as an emergency solution, for people that really can't find a job. No one is entitled to it.

The Dutch government really doesn't hand out money for free just like that!

I don't ever want to end up on welfare either, because of all the control. You are not allowed to live together then, totally justified, but it results in checkers doing random visits to your home and checking things like the toothbrushes, your underwear etc.

There was a case on the news of a woman on welfare, that had a boyfriend and got breastcancer. So because of the treatment he spend a few night at her place, to take care of her. It turns out you aren't allowed to have houseguest for more than three nights in a week. So she lost her welfare over that!

So really, the things that people think about welfare and the way that it is actually being executed, make a huge difference.

I don't want my tax euro's to go to people that are too lazy to work either!

You expect people in a war torn land to formally apply for a visa??

You expect people in a war torn land to formally apply for a visa??
If they can travel half way across the planet... then YES... they had better damn well do the paperwork first.

Otherwise go to a neighboring country like all the others do.

The guy is named ASSAD!! Not Assard.


!
I think it is actually arsehole but any way they spell it he isn't PC and nor am I. I spell a certain name Mudhutmad and I hope that offends you

Trust the europeans to complicate any process particurly welfare but you wouldn't survive here on E700 a month either so most welfare types have more than one to a house particurly asylum seekers and refugees who are given more than the average welfare recipient


You expect people in a war torn land to formally apply for a visa??

Tal I expect anyone to respect the law. In europe these people are required to register in the country of first arrival and they refuse to do so. I saw how they respected the Hungarian border and the mess they made of various places, like it is too much trouble to find a rubbish bin but you can't expect anything from a peope who throw their rubbish in the street

From what I understand, the majority of these refugees are youngish males (teen to 40ish) who are looking for economic opportunities, not safety from war. (So why aren't they fighting for this in and for their own countries?) Even the families supposedly are looking for economic improvement, not for a haven from war. The European countries don't have the resources and jobs for tens of thousands of these immigrants.

Nahhh most of them are Syrians escaping Assad's atrocities .


http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/06/opinion/barrel-bombs-not-isis-are-the-greatest-threat-to-syrians.html?_r=0

Of course now the Russians are there with cluster bombs and indiscriminant bombing from the sky to lend a new level of horror to the people. Ironically Vladdy the conquerer claims that the Russian actions will relieve the refuge crisis.

The refugees aren't exactly starving. They refuse the food and water donations handed out by the Red Cross because to the refugees the Red Cross insignia indicates it is a Christian organization, which it is not.

Well if they have their way they will take over Europe and eliminate the Christians as they tried for centuries to do. By taking these people in Europe is dumbing down and they will go into cultural decline

Tom what atrocities are they escaping from in Turkey? Yes it certainly looked like Russians were using cluster bombs of course they could have just being civilians running. Russia knows how to subdue muslim populations they have long experience. If all those young men in Europe cared about their country they would be fighting there, not running away. Surely a few hundred thousand would make a big difference. Tell me this, if you had this going on in the US would you be migrating to Europe or fighting?

The refugees aren't exactly starving. They refuse the food and water donations handed out by the Red Cross because to the refugees the Red Cross insignia indicates it is a Christian organization, which it is not.

This is a flat out lie!

This is a flat out lie!Yep: Debunking: we spoke to the guy who shot the video purportedly showing migrants refusing Red Cross aid - Il Post (http://www.ilpost.it/2015/08/25/debunking-migrants-video-red-cross-macedonia/)

Well if they have their way they will take over Europe and eliminate the Christians as they tried for centuries to do. By taking these people in Europe is dumbing down and they will go into cultural decline

Christianity is what has been dumbing down Europe for millennia now! Fortunately most people in The Netherlands are atheists just like me. We don't worship the Abrahamic God, who is misogynistic, homophobic, who endorsed slavery, rape, stoning, committed genocide and is a sadistic egomaniac.

Unfortunately there are still some religious people in The Netherlands, but if I were the boss here, I would eradicate all religions, not only Islam, Hinduism and Judaism, but also Christianity. Christianity produces bigots such as Kim Davis or even Hitler. But unfortunately I am smart enough to see that Mao was right: religion is is opium for the masses and it is not that easy to take it away from them.

But if anyone would wipe out all the Christians in The Netherlands, most people that I know and love would still be here. I have over 500 Facebook friends and if 10 of them are Christians that live in The Netherlands, that will be much.

Most Christians that I know and love live in Suriname. If you really want Muslims to assimilate into The Netherlands and especially into the cities where they usually live, they will not only give up Islam, they will give up religion all together!

So if you think that you can offend me by calling Muhammad Muhatmat of whatever you wrote, you are mistaken. I think that Muhammad was a genocidal pedophile, polygynic, wifebeater and I have no respect at all for him, for Allah, for Jehova or for Jahweh. Yes a lot of Muslims are backwards barbars that beat their under age wife's, but Christians really don't have the moral high ground : The Catholic Church is a huge pedophile organisation, the FLDS is even worse, with Warren Jeffs sitting behind bars right now for being a huge pedophile, in the US and just look at all the atrocities that were done in name of Christianity including killing scholars like Galileo.

So really if you want to offend me, you need some more ammo than misspelling the name of a genocidal dictator like Assad or a genocidal pedophile prophet like Muhammad.

But since you only been saying crap here about refugees it doesn't matter what you say about me, because I know who it is coming from. I was raised as a Catholic so I do know that Jesus taught his followers to love their enemy and to turn their other cheek. Or that only he who is without sin should cast the first stone. So on top of being a bigot all of you who don't want to help refugees because they are Muslims are also bad Christians. According to your own religion your attitude will land you in hell after death! Really you claim to have the moral highground, but from where I am sitting, not so much...

Christianity is what has been dumbing down Europe for millennia now! Fortunately most people in The Netherlands are atheists just like me. We don't worship the Abrahamic God, who is misogynistic, homophobic, who endorsed slavery, rape, stoning, committed genocide and is a sadistic egomaniac.

Unfortunately there are still some religious people in The Netherlands, but if I were the boss here, I would eradicate all religions, not only Islam, Hinduism and Judaism, but also Christianity. Christianity produces bigots such as Kim Davis or even Hitler. But unfortunately I am smart enough to see that Mao was right: religion is is opium for the masses and it is not that easy to take it away from them.

But if anyone would wipe out all the Christians in The Netherlands, most people that I know and love would still be here. I have over 500 Facebook friends and if 10 of them are Christians that live in The Netherlands, that will be much.

Most Christians that I know and love live in Suriname. If you really want Muslims to assimilate into The Netherlands and especially into the cities where they usually live, they will not only give up Islam, they will give up religion all together!

So if you think that you can offend me by calling Muhammad Muhatmat of whatever you wrote, you are mistaken. I think that Muhammad was a genocidal pedophile, polygynic, wifebeater and I have no respect at all for him, for Allah, for Jehova or for Jahweh. Yes a lot of Muslims are backwards barbars that beat their under age wife's, but Christians really don't have the moral high ground : The Catholic Church is a huge pedophile organisation, the FLDS is even worse, with Warren Jeffs sitting behind bars right now for being a huge pedophile, in the US and just look at all the atrocities that were done in name of Christianity including killing scholars like Galileo.

So really if you want to offend me, you need some more ammo than misspelling the name of a genocidal dictator like Assad or a genocidal pedophile prophet like Muhammad.

But since you only been saying crap here about refugees it doesn't matter what you say about me, because I know who it is coming from. I was raised as a Catholic so I do know that Jesus taught his followers to love their enemy and to turn their other cheek. Or that only he who is without sin should cast the first stone. So on top of being a bigot all of you who don't want to help refugees because they are Muslims are also bad Christians. According to your own religion your attitude will land you in hell after death! Really you claim to have the moral highground, but from where I am sitting, not so much...

And we get to the root of it. Christian Bashing by Atheists that think they are superior to everyone. Funny how so many atheists think they are somehow better than everyone and think they can berate others purely on that basis.

Its also funny how atheists are so keen to bash on Christians who have done them no harm... yet Back up Muslims and Islam which by its very nature oppress everyone.

And its also funny how the people that do the most PREACHING...tend to be the atheists. Who for some unknown reason think they alone have some mythical moral superiority.

I guess you didn't like her opinion smoothy?

I guess you didn't like her opinion smoothy?

She's the one coming here posting with a high and mighty attitude about how the poor Muslim illegals are being unfairly picked on by "racists" because somehow they are entitled to travel half way across the earth and Demand to be in one specific place, then proceeds to bash other nationalities other races and then Just Christians... I doubt she is Atheist... more like a Muslim that won't admit it.

This has nothing to do with my agreeing with her or not... its about her overt hypocrisy and her own racism.
She has Bashed Amercans in general, specifically WHITES, she has bashed Christians... she has bashed everything outside of her rather radical narrow belief system....and she is calling others racist?

Well paraclete did say that allowing the refugees in will lead to overall dumbing down and cultural decline. I can imagine that would set some on the defensive.

Well paraclete did say that allowing the refugees in will lead to overall dumbing down and cultural decline. I can imagine that would set some on the defensive.
Nothing untrue about what paraclete said. I've seen it happening in Italy for years starting with Albanian illegals ( pretending to be refugees)...then the ROM, and just getting worse with Libya. It used to be the Gypsies committing most of the crimes.

These people are dumb as stumps... poorly educated... don't speak the language.. don't respect the any of the laws... and are responsible for a majority of the crimes.

This batch aren't going to be any different.

And yes I DO have a right to comment... My wife still holds an EU passport as well as an American one.. and I'm a legal resident there (already eligible for citizenship and have been for over 20 years)... and I have property there.

I don't say anything bad about all Refugees! However, I don't ignore all the 'kicking' done by Hungarian journalist, neither I ignore all the warm welcomes and loved poured out to those refugees. However, We cant ignore the rape, murders, throwing of food bcos its not halaal one or bcos it is given by RED CROSS to the Refugees and they refuse bcos it has RED Cross on the box... lol. If I was very hungry and somebody offered me food I will be more then grateful to those then grumbling about other small stuffs.
One more thing,
It should be noted that Galileo was never in a dungeon or tortured; during the Inquisition process he stayed mostly at the house of the Tuscan ambassador to the Vatican and for a short time in a comfortable apartment in the Inquisition building.
Are you being serious?
After the process Galileo spent six months at the palace of Ascanio Piccolomini (c. 1590-1671), the archbishop of Siena and a friend and patron, and then moved into a villa near Arcetri, in the hills above Florence. He spent the rest of his life there.

he died he died on January 8, 1642.
He dies of natural causes, No body killed him! So please stop spreading a lie or may be research well before commenting about something you don't know.
"Love your Neighbour... " As a former catholic myself I know what your talking about, I myself been in that situation and I totally empathies with you but I don't think it's a good idea to say bad things about Christians and same time talk about love for those refugees. I am sorry to say! It sound double standard! As You 'may be' know Roman Catholics (RC).. has a Romans Backgrounds and they Love & worship Christ but also His earthly mother and father Joseph and Mary and all other saints and In RC Church the only way to reach God was through A head priest/father but bible says Christ is the only way. So I don't think if you try to use RC church to justify your point towards all other Christian is a good idea. Also None is saved through their high moral values and deeds but only through faith in the Son. Anyway, I don't hate anyone, refuges, Christians, or atheist etc..
My comment is based on your warm loves towards refugees and hate towards other group of people and their God!

I don't say anything bad about all Refugees! However, I don't ignore all the 'kicking' done by Hungarian journalist, neither I ignore all the warm welcomes and loved poured out to those refugees. However, We cant ignore the rape, murders, throwing of food bcos its not halaal one or bcos it is given by RED CROSS to the Refugees and they refuse bcos it has RED Cross on the box... lol. If I was very hungry and somebody offered me food I will be more then grateful to those then grumbling about other small stuffs.
One more thing,
It should be noted that Galileo was never in a dungeon or tortured; during the Inquisition process he stayed mostly at the house of the Tuscan ambassador to the Vatican and for a short time in a comfortable apartment in the Inquisition building.
Are you being serious?
After the process Galileo spent six months at the palace of Ascanio Piccolomini (c. 1590-1671), the archbishop of Siena and a friend and patron, and then moved into a villa near Arcetri, in the hills above Florence. He spent the rest of his life there.

he died he died on January 8, 1642.
He dies of natural causes, No body killed him! So please stop spreading a lie or may be research well before commenting about something you don't know.
"Love your Neighbour... " As a former catholic myself I know what your talking about, I myself been in that situation and I totally empathies with you but I don't think it's a good idea to say bad things about Christians and same time talk about love for those refugees. I am sorry to say! It sound double standard! As You 'may be' know Roman Catholics (RC).. has a Romans Backgrounds and they Love & worship Christ but also His earthly mother and father Joseph and Mary and all other saints and In RC Church the only way to reach God was through A head priest/father but bible says Christ is the only way. So I don't think if you try to use RC church to justify your point towards all other Christian is a good idea. Also None is saved through their high moral values and deeds but only through faith in the Son. Anyway, I don't hate anyone, refuges, Christians, or atheist etc..
My comment is based on your warm loves towards refugees and hate towards other group of people and their God!

I don't hate any race or religion. My best friend who lives in Suriname is a Christian and I dated a lot of white guys.

I only have zero tolerance for intolerance. I hate it when someone says that Muslims are animals: they are people and that all refugees deserve to be shot, because they should stay and fight, especially when that person is a white American, because that means that that person is a descendant of immigrants themselves.

All I am trying to say it that no race or religion should feel that they are better than others, they have all did terrible things.

I also disagree with Richard Dawkins opinion regarding what happened to Ahmed Mohamed, so really I have no tolerance for intolerance, even if someone is atheist. No group is better than another group, neither are atheists. All that defines atheists is a lack of belief in deities, that's it, they can be good and bad people.

Good people help other people and need and bad people say that people in need need to be shot for being cowards. That has nothing to do with race or religion.

This is one of my favourite songs: Imagine by John Lennon and I salute Shakira for singing it to the pope recently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVg2EJvvlF8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-3wIW1Rpiw

This is what I stand for and believe in. My white atheist exboyfriend, that I dated for six years, always called me a hippie.

I don't judge all Christians based on Catholicism, Kim Davis isn't Catholic and I mentioned her too. Catholics aren't allowed to divorce (which I disagree with as well) and we all know that she had three "kind of" divorces, because she turned out to be a bigamist as well. I also mentioned Warren Jefs, another Christian that isn't a Catholic.

All that I am saying is that being Christian doesn't give you a moral high ground, like some bigots seem to think.

I say live and let live. I am in favour of gay marriage. If people are against it because of their Christian or Muslim beliefs, I find them bigots. I am in favour of divorce, no need to spend your life in an unhappy marriage, therefore I disagree with Catholicism and Jehova's witnesses. I am also pro choice, no one has the right to tell women what to do with their own bodies, and bombing abortion clinics, like some fundamentalisic Christians do, is plain terorrism, which I dissaprove of. But just like not al Christians aren't abortion clinic bombing terrorists, so aren't all Muslims terrorists and if someone says that all Muslims are terrorist, that person is an ignorant bigot, that is what I find disgusting, not the fact that he is a Christian or white. That someone calls Muslims moongod worshippers is so disrespectfull, and no one bats an eye because of that, I want to remind all of them, that just like they doesn't respect Allah, there are people out there that don't respect any imaginairy creature, like me.

Especially not that misogynistic, homophobic sadistic egomaniac that the Abrahamic God is supposed to be, according to his own "word": the Talmud, Bible and Koran. First he wants to keep Adam and Eve ignorant, when they eat of the apple of wisdom anyway, he acts like a toddler with a tantrum and curses mankind for all eternity. Then he commits genocide, by letting everyone except for Noah and his family being killed by a flood. In Sodom and Gomorra he does that again! And why the hell does he has to be so cold hearted to let Lot's wife turn into salt, because she looks back? But what he does to Job or to Egypt is so sadistic, that I really can't respect that God.

So why I have no respect for any religion or any God (allthough I don't know enough of Budhism, but it seems like a good religion to me), I can respect people that are religious, including Christians and Muslims, if they are good people. I haven't forgot about the lessons from Jesus and I find the parabel for the Good Samaritan a really wise lesson. A true follower of Christ, would keep that lesson in mind and not say something like Muslims are animals and terrorists, but they should look at someone's behaviour. Don't judge a book by its cover!

Unfortunately, there are at least two men here, bound on making me ridiculous, twisting my words all the time, that I don't respond anymore to their bigoted posts. But the way that they are conducting themselves, says more about them than about me!

Her numerous Posts in this thread have Bashed White People on a number of fronts multiple times...she has bashed Americans and Specifically USA citizens... and bashed Christians, and she has bashed White people while in turn thinkingshe is perfect and abouve reproach.

Then the fact she feels ANYONE that believes differently than her is a bigot... shows how big of a bigot she is herself.

And despite her claims otherwise... her own words prove everything that I have said. After all she has some irrational Hatred towards Americans and white people for some unknown reason. That makes her a bigot in most peoples minds. Not to mention incredibly arrogant.

I don't hate other Racial groups.... I don't hate Atheists.....I do hate Muslims and I have a damn good reason to....they have tried to kill me before...

She however hates Christians....Thinks Atheists are somehow superior to everyone...she has bashed and made derogatory statements towards Whites and US Citizens... so who is the real bigot here. She is, that's who.

Nobody has twisted a single word she has said....her own words since the title of this thread prove that she is. Because its all there for everyone to read.

And exactly where do YOU get of dictating what anyone else can think...or what other countries decide to do...and when you start insulting others...expect to get some dished back at you.

Apparently you are not old enough to see ALL of the news feeds from Muslim countries CHEERING the terrorists on 9/11.

Are are you so ignorant you think that was justified, are you so blind with your own ideology that you think all those Muslims are NOT animals. And where was ANY of YOUR so called GOOD Muslims protesting when that happened ANGAISNT the terrorists.

And exactly WHAT Muslim Charities provide aid to non-Muslims anywhere in the world? There aren't any because Islam prohibits it.

And before YOU start flapping your gums about who is conducting themselve how....YOU are the one that started Bashing WHite People and Americans early in this thread.

I don't say anything bad about all Refugees! However, I don't ignore all the 'kicking' done by Hungarian journalist, neither I ignore all the warm welcomes and loved poured out to those refugees. However, We cant ignore the rape, murders, throwing of food bcos its not halaal one or bcos it is given by RED CROSS to the Refugees and they refuse bcos it has RED Cross on the box... lol. If I was very hungry and somebody offered me food I will be more then grateful to those then grumbling about other small stuffs.
One more thing,
It should be noted that Galileo was never in a dungeon or tortured; during the Inquisition process he stayed mostly at the house of the Tuscan ambassador to the Vatican and for a short time in a comfortable apartment in the Inquisition building.
Are you being serious?
After the process Galileo spent six months at the palace of Ascanio Piccolomini (c. 1590-1671), the archbishop of Siena and a friend and patron, and then moved into a villa near Arcetri, in the hills above Florence. He spent the rest of his life there.

he died he died on January 8, 1642.
He dies of natural causes, No body killed him! So please stop spreading a lie or may be research well before commenting about something you don't know.
"Love your Neighbour... " As a former catholic myself I know what your talking about, I myself been in that situation and I totally empathies with you but I don't think it's a good idea to say bad things about Christians and same time talk about love for those refugees. I am sorry to say! It sound double standard! As You 'may be' know Roman Catholics (RC).. has a Romans Backgrounds and they Love & worship Christ but also His earthly mother and father Joseph and Mary and all other saints and In RC Church the only way to reach God was through A head priest/father but bible says Christ is the only way. So I don't think if you try to use RC church to justify your point towards all other Christian is a good idea. Also None is saved through their high moral values and deeds but only through faith in the Son. Anyway, I don't hate anyone, refuges, Christians, or atheist etc..
My comment is based on your warm loves towards refugees and hate towards other group of people and their God!

My apologies! The church didn't kill Galileo, but the bigoted ignorant way they treated him, is illustrative of the church dumbing Europe down:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair

Thank you for pointing out that error of mine Precious! The truth is ugly enough as it is, there is no reason for me to falsify history to make a point!

Well paraclete did say that allowing the refugees in will lead to overall dumbing down and cultural decline. I can imagine that would set some on the defensive.

I am not a Muslim, so I don't have to be defensive.

Paraclete seems to think that Christianity is superior to Islam, so I had to set the record straight. I know that I won't get through to someone as ignorant as them, but, if someone else reads this thread, at least that person can check the facts and reach their own conclusion.

People like Smoothy and Raclete are lost causes, but if I can even help understand one person that Muslims are people just like they are, I have reached my goal.

Especially not that misogynistic, homophobic sadistic egomaniac that the Abrahamic God is supposed to be, according to his own "word": the Talmud, Bible and Koran. First he wants to keep Adam and Eve ignorant, when they eat of the apple of wisdom anyway, he acts like a toddler with a tantrum and curses mankind for all eternity. Then he commits genocide, by letting everyone except for Noah and his family being killed by a flood. In Sodom and Gomorra he does that again! And why the hell does he has to be so cold hearted to let Lot's wife turn into salt, because she looks back? But what he does to Job or to Egypt is so sadistic, that I really can't respect that God.

Someday you and I can have a private pow-wow about this. :) I'll explain what it's all about. (It's not what it seems.)


if I can even help understand one person that Muslims are people just like they are, I have reached my goal.
But bashing smoothy and 'clete et al. won't make that magic understanding happen. There are better ways.

I am not a Muslim, so I don't have to be defensive.

Paraclete seems to think that Christianity is superior to Islam, so I had to set the record straight. I know that I won't get through to someone as ignorant as them, but, if someone else reads this thread, at least that person can check the facts and reach their own conclusion.

People like Smoothy and Raclete are lost causes, but if I can even help understand one person that Muslims are people just like they are, I have reached my goal.

Really YOU are the person making slurs against Americans and White people and Christians... You are so arrogant you are incapable of grasping the concept that your world view exists only in your own head...

MILLIONS of Muslims support Terrorism... that means Millions of Muslims are subhuman. Millions are not an insignificant number. Dozens maybe... I might even agree with hundreds, but Millions not a chance.

And here YOU go again.. suporting Islam... the Religion of hatred and oppression... Christianity IS superior to Islam... In fact so is every other religion as well as Atheism. Everything is superior to Islam. Because except for any Cults out there....none oppress or preach hatred like Islam does.

Funny for someone who claims to be an Atheist... you have some unholy Love for Islam. Its obvious you know little about it.


Facts?...your fantasies and world view are sadly lacking in any facts....Mine are based completely on facts...and personal direct ACTUAL experience. Which DWARFS any life experience you have had so far.

And YOU opened yourself up for this when you started Bashing Americans and white people earlier. I have every right to dish it back because I am both White AND American....and damn proud of it.


And all the "Genocides" you blamed White people for....if you have half the education you think you have...you would know all the biggest ones were committed by Atheists ( and they were NOT all White either)( does Stalin, MAO and Pol Pot come to mind? And they killed far more than Hitler as bad as he was)...followed by Muslims (convert or die every place they ever invaded and still do to this current day). The other groups being far less significant than those.

Unless you plan to dream up some more Facts.

Apparently you were not old enough to vividly remember the world wide coverage of Muslims cheering on 9/11. I and many of us on the other hand were....and will never forget it. THAT said everything about Islam that anyone needs to know.

And I narrowly escaped being one of those 9/11 victims...so EXCUSE me if I get extremely IRATE when someone claims that was a minority. Beause that apparently doesn't fit into the fantasy world view you have. Sorry but reality isn't always pretty.

Someday you and I can have a private pow-wow about this. :) I'll explain what it's all about. (It's not what it seems.)


But bashing smoothy and 'clete et al. won't make that magic understanding happen. There are better ways.

They started the bashing first, and since I am not a Chistian anymore, I don't have to turn the other cheek anymore:-). I really don't see why I can't call bigots bigots, if they called me ignorant, that I should be ashamed of myself, naïve, a teenager, lying that I am an atheist, while I am a closeted Muslim etc.

And all the bad things that they do say about Muslims, are things that they are saying about my mother, my mothers family, my Muslim colleagues (at the gym) and my one Muslim friend. So although they aren't calling me an barbaric animal and terrorist, they are saying that about people that I love, which is also disrespectfull towards me.

I watched the movie My Name is Khan recently, because it is about Asperger's Syndrome. But it is also about the atrocious way in which Muslims are treated in the US today. When I saw it, I thought that they were excaggerating the situation for dramatic effect, but now that I have met Smoothy and Raclete, I know that it unfortunately isn't just fiction. You should really watch that movie if you haven't seen it, it really made me cry!

I am really shocked by the hatred those two are shamelessly exhibiting towards Muslims. People like them give Christians a bad name. I am really, really, really shocked.

But indeed, my question was, what does work against that? Is there an answer to that question? Do you know it? Because honestly, I am inclined to just give up hope of a tolerant planet, like the one John Lennon imagined. I am glad that I don't have children, so I don't have to worry about what world they need to live in or worry about them getting poisoned with hate against Muslims or refugees.

I am watching reruns of Dr. Quinn. On today's show, they build a school, that wasn't accesible for the black or Indian children, only for the white children and the reverent of Colorado Springs was okay with that. I thought, we are living a 150 years later, but unfortunately, that way of thinking hasn't been abolished my mankind.

Why didn't you speak up, about the disrespect towards Muslims? Do you think that it is okay call Muslims moongod worshippers, terrorists or animals? Or do you think that Smoothy and Raclete are lost causes, so that it is a waste of your time and energy to confront them with the baseless hatred that they are exhibiting?

Yes Christianity is superior to Islam, Islam does not offer eternal salvation, it offers a life of trying to appease God with your works and what is the chief work by which an islamic nut case can arrive in paradise, kill yourself in a religious cause. Of course, Christianity is superior to that. You forget even muslims believe in Jesus Christ they just have a confused view of who he is

I am opposed to the attitude of these muslims who invade the countries of others, who kill and mame each other and if you have ever been in a muslim country you will know live in abject squalor when their leaders live in luxury. I can understand why they want to get out but there is such a thing as the rule of law which needs to be respected. I am opposed to Daesh and everything it stands for. I am opposed to a people who would cheer when the towers were attacked and thousands killed and I am opposed to a people who would tear their country apart because of a 1,400 year old schism and then flee rather than fight. I am opposed to religious idiots like the Taliban, you like Islam, go and get a taste of what theirs is like for a woman

In this world people are judged by their actions

Why didn't you speak up, about the disrespect towards Muslims? Do you think that it is okay call Muslims moongod worshippers, terrorists or animals? Or do you think that Smoothy and Raclete are lost causes, so that it is a waste of your time and energy to confront them with the baseless hatred that they are exhibiting?
I've been biding my time until the vitriol has dispersed and I can get a word in edgewise. :)

My experiences with Muslims have been always good ones.

And today my older son was finally officially and formally diagnosed with Asperger's, so thank you, misspurple, for your advice in the past.

Yep: Debunking: we spoke to the guy who shot the video purportedly showing migrants refusing Red Cross aid - Il Post (http://www.ilpost.it/2015/08/25/debunking-migrants-video-red-cross-macedonia/)

Thank you. It is really nice to have someone else on this thread who is not buying into or helping spreading all the Islamophobic nonsense that I am reading here!

They started the bashing first, and since I am not a Chistian anymore, I don't have to turn the other cheek anymore:-). I really don't see why I can't call bigots bigots, if they called me ignorant, that I should be ashamed of myself, naïve, a teenager, lying that I am an atheist, while I am a closeted Muslim etc.

And all the bad things that they do say about Muslims, are things that they are saying about my mother, my mothers family, my Muslim colleagues (at the gym) and my one Muslim friend. So although they aren't calling me an barbaric animal and terrorist, they are saying that about people that I love, which is also disrespectfull towards me.

I watched the movie My Name is Khan recently, because it is about Asperger's Syndrome. But it is also about the atrocious way in which Muslims are treated in the US today. When I saw it, I thought that they were excaggerating the situation for dramatic effect, but now that I have met Smoothy and Raclete, I know that it unfortunately isn't just fiction. You should really watch that movie if you haven't seen it, it really made me cry!

I am really shocked by the hatred those two are shamelessly exhibiting towards Muslims. People like them give Christians a bad name. I am really, really, really shocked.

But indeed, my question was, what does work against that? Is there an answer to that question? Do you know it? Because honestly, I am inclined to just give up hope of a tolerant planet, like the one John Lennon imagined. I am glad that I don't have children, so I don't have to worry about what world they need to live in or worry about them getting poisoned with hate against Muslims or refugees.

I am watching reruns of Dr. Quinn. On today's show, they build a school, that wasn't accesible for the black or Indian children, only for the white children and the reverent of Colorado Springs was okay with that. I thought, we are living a 150 years later, but unfortunately, that way of thinking hasn't been abolished my mankind.

Why didn't you speak up, about the disrespect towards Muslims? Do you think that it is okay call Muslims moongod worshippers, terrorists or animals? Or do you think that Smoothy and Raclete are lost causes, so that it is a waste of your time and energy to confront them with the baseless hatred that they are exhibiting?


Hey, so YOU are a liar too... that's obvious... You love to dish it out but you aren't mature enough to take it... Oh poor thing. All you have done is Bash Americans, white people and Christians... anyone who does not agree with your marrow minded world view. After all YOU called everyone that disagreed with you bigots.

There is a better word for people like you... but unlike you... I'm mature enough to not throw it out there.

I don't care if you are Female... the minute you start berating others that disagree with you... then you get treated like any guy who does it.

I normally wouldn't wish many of the things I've seen and experienced on anyone else.....but you've earned it. I do hope you get to see many if not all the things I have. Because that's what it would take for you to see how wrong you are about everything.

Maybe the next terrorist strike in Europe will kill some people you know well and maybe it will almost kill you, that way you can think about it almost every day for decades to come. When that happens come back and tell us you feel the same way about the true Islam.

Maybe you will see close up and smell over a hundred dead and burned bodies killed by Muslims for no valid reason in just ONE location...let that smell be stuck in your head for decades later, and that vision haunt you in your sleep for just as long....or the hundreds of others.

Until you have experienced that....then you aren't qualified to comment on how I think and what I say about that certain group.

I've been biding my time until the vitriol has dispersed and I can get a word in edgewise. :)

My experiences with Muslims have been always good ones.

And today my older son was finally officially and formally diagnosed with Asperger's, so thank you, misspurple, for your advice in the past.

Okay, now you are using to complicated words for a nonnative English speaker, what does
biding my time until the vitriol has dispersed and I can get a word in edgewise mean?

You're welcome:-)! Have you seen My Name is Khan yet? That movie is made in cooperation with the UK foundation for autism, to give an as accurate as possible depiction of Asperger's, so it is really a must see. I had my mother, my baby sister and a good friend of mine watch the movie as well! Just keep some tissues at hand, when you are going to watch it!

I agree with the mother of Khan in that movie: there are only two kinds of people, good people and bad people, religion has nothing to do with it!

I haven't seen that movie, so will be sure to get it and watch it. And you read Be Different by John Elder Robison. Also, Tony Attwood has written books on Asperger's.

"...biding my time" -- waiting
"vitriol" -- cruel and bitter criticism

I haven't seen that movie, so will be sure to get it and watch it. And you read Be Different by John Elder Robison. Also, Tony Attwood has written books on Asperger's.

"...biding my time" -- waiting
"vitriol" -- cruel and bitter criticism

It doesn't seem that the vitriol is ending. Now I have also been called a liar. All the vitriol doesn't even make sense!

It doesn't seem that the vitriol is ending. Now I have also been called a liar. All the vitriol doesn't even make sense!
Take the high road! I know you have constructive things to say. So let's talk about what might be good for countries that accept these Syrians, etc. And what might become problems.

I don't judge all Christians based on Catholicism, Kim Davis isn't Catholic and I mentioned her too. Catholics aren't allowed to divorce (which I disagree with as well) and we all know that she had three "kind of" divorces, because she turned out to be a bigamist as well. I also mentioned Warren Jefs, another Christian that isn't a Catholic.!
I think while reading Kim Davis reports, you missed the part where it says that, When she was not "born again" or really ''following Christ" She did those divorces. So it all happened before even She was a Christian. And did you also missed the part where she also refused to issues the license for even non-gay- couple/ straight couple. Why don't you get angry for that. She never stopped her fellow officers to issues license to any gay-couple.

When Muslim extremist killed few people because they were "Gay", [and that's a horrible thing to do :( ]. However, there was not much people who were bashing for this instance but when "Kim Davis" instance happened, every one was like furious. Kim Davis didn't kill anyone! Why this double standard?. Do you remember the earlier days when there were no rights for LGBT people and they were really sad and asking rights for them, and they were saying that we Just need equal rights nothing else, we just need Love nothing else, we just need etc... And when they have given everything been are asking for! Now they Hate Christians, even though Christians don't hate them. You don't have to agree on everything in order to be nice right? Now Christian are showing somewhat tolerance, but where is LGBT people tolerance gone? They were Just asking for Love right? One friend kills you if they don't agree with you or vice versa then you don't say anything about them but other Friend Just refuse and let you live.. but You become angry and furious! Why that Partiality!

Ok- Yesterday. There was shooting and many people died Christian/Non Christian but Christian people were targeted "Oregon mass shooting"... what do you say about that?

I have a lot of Muslim friends since Childhood, I grew up with them side by side... they have innocently shared the stuffs I will never forget in my life, I cried with them, I prayed for them and I also know that not every other Muslim person is a terrorist.

Especially not that misogynistic, homophobic sadistic egomaniac that the Abrahamic God is supposed to be, according to his own "word": the Talmud, Bible and Koran. First he wants to keep Adam and Eve ignorant, when they eat of the apple of wisdom anyway, he acts like a toddler with a tantrum and curses mankind for all eternity. Then he commits genocide, by letting everyone except for Noah and his family being killed by a flood. In Sodom and Gomorra he does that again! And why the hell does he has to be so cold hearted to let Lot's wife turn into salt, because she looks back? But what he does to Job or to Egypt is so sadistic, that I really can't respect that God.

I would like to think that You know About "New testament" in the Bible. So I don't know why you are saying these... And I understand that you don't understand why those things happened, but it doesn't mean that You have to talk Bad about anyone's God. Ok if you acknowledge these part then Where is the Part When It say That "For God so Loved the WORLD the He gave His Only Son for us...to die in our place" etc.. Why don't You acknowledge about this? If you want to be fair then Be really fair!
Buddha? His real name is 'Siddharta Gautam', Do you know He abandoned his wife and son 'Rahul'? Charity starts form a Home right?

They started the bashing first, and since I am not a Chistian anymore, I don't have to turn the other cheek anymore:-). I really don't see why I can't call bigots bigots, if they called me ignorant, that I should be ashamed of myself, naïve, a teenager, lying that I am an atheist, while I am a closeted Muslim etc.

And all the bad things that they do say about Muslims, are things that they are saying about my mother, my mothers family, my Muslim colleagues (at the gym) and my one Muslim friend. So although they aren't calling me an barbaric animal and terrorist, they are saying that about people that I love, which is also disrespectfull towards me.

I watched the movie My Name is Khan recently, because it is about Asperger's Syndrome. But it is also about the atrocious way in which Muslims are treated in the US today. When I saw it, I thought that they were excaggerating the situation for dramatic effect, but now that I have met Smoothy and Raclete, I know that it unfortunately isn't just fiction. You should really watch that movie if you haven't seen it, it really made me cry!

I am really shocked by the hatred those two are shamelessly exhibiting towards Muslims. People like them give Christians a bad name. I am really, really, really shocked.

But indeed, my question was, what does work against that? Is there an answer to that question? Do you know it? Because honestly, I am inclined to just give up hope of a tolerant planet, like the one John Lennon imagined. I am glad that I don't have children, so I don't have to worry about what world they need to live in or worry about them getting poisoned with hate against Muslims or refugees.

I am watching reruns of Dr. Quinn. On today's show, they build a school, that wasn't accesible for the black or Indian children, only for the white children and the reverent of Colorado Springs was okay with that. I thought, we are living a 150 years later, but unfortunately, that way of thinking hasn't been abolished my mankind.

Why didn't you speak up, about the disrespect towards Muslims? Do you think that it is okay call Muslims moongod worshippers, terrorists or animals? Or do you think that Smoothy and Raclete are lost causes, so that it is a waste of your time and energy to confront them with the baseless hatred that they are exhibiting?

''My Name is KHAN and I am Not a terrorist! What a dialogue ''.. I love Sharukh Khan! I am a Fan. ;).
Anyway, It goes same for others as well, As not all muslims are terrosist like wise not all Christian Hate Muslims or refuges or atheist etc...

Pescious you are talking to an atheist, a person who has made a conscious decision to abandon God, and that is undoubtedly because all she really knew is religion not relationship with Christ. There are also obviously life experiences that cause a reaction. She also feels a need to justify her position. What is going on here is that she denys everyone else the right to have an opinion based on their life experiences. Some of us have had negative experiences associated with muslims. There are a lot of bleeding hearts in Europe, people who are saying " Oh those poor people". I can understand their need to do something about it, but there are consequences. It is not so long ago the dutch saw the reaction of muslims but they have short memories

This vitriol was brought on by you. You offended white people, you offended ALL Americans... Not just the USA, but everyone from Canada to Argentina. Everyone on the American Continent is American, North, Central and South America.

Then you started calling everyone who disagrees with you bigots. Its clear you do not understand what that term actually implies.

You also made a number of other accusations based in your incorrect education or just assumptions of people that were there and know better.

Your perspective is based exclusively on biased sources.. your teachers all have a particular bias... the news has a very strong bias... the Internet is unreliable and has a bias...

And you are arguing with people who were there.. saw things with their own eyes, knows exactly what did and didn't happen.

Something you will never get from the news... because there is no such thing anywhere as unbiased news coverage. Its all biased. No matter if its video, audio print or electronic in nature.

smoothy, we each have our own experience. Yours is different from mine, and misspurple's is different from yours (and mine). Let's learn from each other and not argue with each other. That accomplishes nothing (as you well know).

This thread is becoming toxic. Americans should really focus on the bigger problems they have at home i.e. become immune to the mass murders that seem to happen monthly.

This thread is becoming toxic. Americans should really focus on the bigger problems they have at home i.e. become immune to the mass murders that seem to happen monthly.
Exactly! I've reading all the news releases on the Oregon shooter. I think we have a bigger problem with mentally ill people (young males???) than we do with guns.

And the gun laws already in existence are not being obeyed/followed.

Good point Karma, americans do have an elephant in the room they aren't willing to address, in fact they have a whole herd. These killings are deplorable, what is worse the victims were singled out on religious grounds.

!
I think while reading Kim Davis reports, you missed the part where it says that, When she was not "born again" or really ''following Christ" She did those divorces. So it all happened before even She was a Christian. And did you also missed the part where she also refused to issues the license for even non-gay- couple/ straight couple. Why don't you get angry for that. She never stopped her fellow officers to issues license to any gay-couple.

When Muslim extremist killed few people because they were "Gay", [and that's a horrible thing to do :( ]. However, there was not much people who were bashing for this instance but when "Kim Davis" instance happened, every one was like furious. Kim Davis didn't kill anyone! Why this double standard?. Do you remember the earlier days when there were no rights for LGBT people and they were really sad and asking rights for them, and they were saying that we Just need equal rights nothing else, we just need Love nothing else, we just need etc... And when they have given everything been are asking for! Now they Hate Christians, even though Christians don't hate them. You don't have to agree on everything in order to be nice right? Now Christian are showing somewhat tolerance, but where is LGBT people tolerance gone? They were Just asking for Love right? One friend kills you if they don't agree with you or vice versa then you don't say anything about them but other Friend Just refuse and let you live.. but You become angry and furious! Why that Partiality!

Ok- Yesterday. There was shooting and many people died Christian/Non Christian but Christian people were targeted "Oregon mass shooting"... what do you say about that?

I have a lot of Muslim friends since Childhood, I grew up with them side by side... they have innocently shared the stuffs I will never forget in my life, I cried with them, I prayed for them and I also know that not every other Muslim person is a terrorist.

I would like to think that You know About "New testament" in the Bible. So I don't know why you are saying these... And I understand that you don't understand why those things happened, but it doesn't mean that You have to talk Bad about anyone's God. Ok if you acknowledge these part then Where is the Part When It say That "For God so Loved the WORLD the He gave His Only Son for us...to die in our place" etc.. Why don't You acknowledge about this? If you want to be fair then Be really fair!
Buddha? His real name is 'Siddharta Gautam', Do you know He abandoned his wife and son 'Rahul'? Charity starts form a Home right?

I have absolutely no respect or tolerance for bigots. If Muslims kill gay people for being gay, that is a hate crime and needs to be punished. Anyone needs to be punished for that. There are also Christian countries where being gay is still punishable by death in Africa. I am against laws that go against the human rights. Some of those countries even joined those treaties, but don't uphold them. I really hate that we can't stop all injustice in the world, but I do support Amnesty International. Of course, killing is worse than not being able to get married. But all injustice against everyone, including the LGBT needs to stop.

I have a huge problem with intolerance, and because a lot of intolerance is rooted in religions, I have a problem with religions. Yes I know about the new testament, I even quoted it here: turn your other cheek, love thy neighbour, the good Samaritan, he who is without sin, should cast the first stone, help the poor and needy, but it seems that people who call themselves Christians like Smoothy and Paraclete don't know about that part of the Bible, since they call Muslims animals and Smoothy thinks that all refugees need to be shot. The pope is against gay marriage and divorce, based on the entire Bible. I am against limiting people's freedom, so if the pope who knows the entire Bible well, still reaches that conclusion, that book is really too intolerant for me.

I know that Kim Davis converted, but that doesn't matter to me. I think that it is hypocritical of her to want to limit the civil rights of others, when she made use of those of her herself. I have a problem with people that wants to limit other people's choices because of their beliefs. Kim Davis is one of them.

Yes, I know that Siddharta Gautam left his wive and son but like I said earlier, I am pro divorce as well. He left them well cared for! I am against forcing people that don't want to be married anymore, to stay married. My parents had an unhappy marriage, they were really toxic, always fighting. It would have been so much better if they had just gotten a divorce! So I am not dissaproving of Budism, because Siddharta Gautam left his family.

I don't know about which hostility of the LGBT community you are talking about, but as long as there still are homophobes in the US, it is only logical that the LGBT community will rise against that. It doesn't matter that in other countries being gay is punishable by death, all bigotry should end! It is easier to fight against a smaller injustice in your own country than to a bigger one far away.

Some of the Syrian refugees that come to The Netherlands are pedophiles, married to girls younger than 16!! We couldn't do anything about that when they were still in Syria, but now that they are coming here, we should stop that! According to Dutch law, sex with a child under 16 is illegal, unless you are married. They should really remove that unless you are married part from the law, to prosecute these lowlife pedophiles!

I read the news about Muslims in refugeecenters attacking the non-Muslims there! That is unacceptable! Here in The Netherlands you don't get a visa anymore if you commit an act of violence. I say zero tolerance, at the first infraction, we should send them back. Too bad that Syria is being bombed by Russia, France and the US, if you don't respect people that aren't Muslim, you have no business coming to Europe! I also heard that on one of the boats to Europe some Muslims had thrown some Christians overboard. That kind of zealot criminals aren't welcome here! The men that committed those murders at the sea, immediately got arrested the moment they reached Europe. But we can't go outside of Europe to arrest every murderer there. I really wish that it was possible to arrest everyone worldwide that doesn't respect human rights, but we simply don't have the power to do so. We just have to start somewhere.

There is a lot wrong in the world and there is more wrong outside the west than within the west. But that doesn't mean that everything in the west is okay and that we should accept what is wrong here.

Here in The Netherlands we have a racist phenomenon, called Black Pete. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwarte_Piet it is disrespectful towards people of African Origine, but most Dutch people don't want to recognise that. A lot of people say that we shouldn't care about it or that the UN has better things to worry about, but that doesn't matter. It is really awfull what happens outside of The Netherlands, but this injustice in The Netherlands, that kills no one, also needs to end! People have even issued death threats against people that speak up against Black Pete!

What happened in Oregon was horrible. All that I heard about it, here in The Netherlands, is that apparently the shooter had a specific hate towards Christians. I don't know why, but I hope that it is clear by now, that I think that it is wrong to hate people because they are part of a group, whether they are Christians, Muslims, refugees or whatever. Hating people is wrong, period. I have no symphaty for any mass shooter, whatsoever, they are all psychopaths, bad people! Whatever justification they give, no justification is good enough to randomly kill people! The only justification for taking a life is self defense.

And about God giving his only son. I am totally not impressed. For me that is no compensation for every atrocity that he committed in the old testament. And what does giving mean? Parents that give their child up for adoption are really giving their child away, but since God is all seeing, he could watch his son every single second. He never had to worry about what would happen to him, because if he wanted to, he could intervene at any time. And didn't Jesus return to God in the end, with ascenscion? So if you ask me, God only lend us Jesus for 33 years and for an infinite being like him, 33 years is nothing! So really I am totally not impressed by what God has done to show his love for human kind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo

This is what Stephen Fry has to say about God and that is how I see God as well!

This thread is becoming toxic. Americans should really focus on the bigger problems they have at home i.e. become immune to the mass murders that seem to happen monthly.
Canada is far from being perfect...and those mass murders in nearly every case has turned out to be a liberal that should either be in jail..or in a mental ward.

Particularly since Canadian law prohibits naming people who commit crimes, their rights are so overwhelmingly important and all.....and in some cases even reporting on the crime.

''My Name is KHAN and I am Not a terrorist! What a dialogue ''.. I love Sharukh Khan! I am a Fan. ;).
Anyway, It goes same for others as well, As not all muslims are terrosist like wise not all Christian Hate Muslims or refuges or atheist etc...

I know that:-D! There are lots of Christians that I do love and respect. Like my best friend for example. Her mother is worth her weight in gold and very religious!

I am actually shocked by the hatred that I encountered on this thread. I didn't expect it, so it is not the typical idea that I have of Christians, not at all! Two years ago I was still a Christian myself and I never hated Muslims or refugees or atheist back then. I dated an atheist for six years while I was a Catholic myself!

And the guy from Guinee that I dated, was both a Muslim and refugee, while I was still a Catholic, no hatred there either!

Exactly! I've reading all the news releases on the Oregon shooter. I think we have a bigger problem with mentally ill people (young males???) than we do with guns.

And the gun laws already in existence are not being obeyed/followed.

I object to calling mass shooters a problem with the mentally ill!

It's not about mental illness: The big lie that always follows mass shootings by white males - Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/its_not_about_mental_illness_the_big_lie_that_alwa ys_follows_mass_shootings_by_white_males/)

If you read the descriptions of his behavior, he showed shades of autism, but that's not a mental illness and not the whole story. His total behavior pattern fits in the mental illness framework. And there's a cohort of angry young males that he apparently hung out with online -- they claim pretty girls ignore them, they have no friends, they can't carry on conversations with anyone, they feel everyone is against them.


I object to calling mass shooters a problem with the mentally ill!

It’s not about mental illness: The big lie that always follows mass shootings by white males - Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/its_not_about_mental_illness_the_big_lie_that_alwa ys_follows_mass_shootings_by_white_males/)

I object to calling mass shooters a problem with the mentally ill!

It's not about mental illness: The big lie that always follows mass shootings by white males - Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/its_not_about_mental_illness_the_big_lie_that_alwa ys_follows_mass_shootings_by_white_males/)

You can object all you want... but the fact is... not everyone that does that is evil... a lot of them ARE mentally ill. And it has nothing to do with what race someone is. Despite what some website might claim.

Normal, well adjusted people just don't wake up and decide "I'm going to kill a bunch of people today". What is common is they are all quick to blame everyone else but themselves. When there really is nobody else to blame BUT themselves.

Nobody is taught personal responsibility growing up these days.

And I did grow up with several people that did end up in jail for killing someone. One of them never was right in the head..and an other was nothing but trouble the entire time I knew him. Another (this one always brings smile to my face) who I had nothing but trouble with in school....got his head blown off attempting an armed robbery of a gas station. Thank goodness criminals are NOT the only people with guns in the USA unlike a lot of places where people are defenseless..

Ever notice all Mass Shootings happen in Gun Free Zones? Nobody ever points that out....nobody nearby to stop the criminal.

And yes there ARE lots of Criminals with Guns In Europe....despite draconian gun laws.

I had one pulled on me there 24 years ago back when it was a LOT safer there

If you read the descriptions of his behavior, he showed shades of autism, but that's not a mental illness and not the whole story. His total behavior pattern fits in the mental illness framework. And there's a cohort of angry young males that he apparently hung out with online -- they claim pretty girls ignore them, they have no friends, they can't carry on conversations with anyone, they feel everyone is against them.

You are talking about Elliot Rodgers as well. His father claimed that he probably had Asperger's, but he was never formally diagnosed. As soon as people have less than average social skills, people are calling them autistic, but that is so unfair and stigmatising! I seem to have great social skills. So when I accidentally say something blunt, without being aware of it, people think that I am being mean on purpose. I have to constantly remind a friend of mine that I don't like big parties. This Monday she said, but you aren't shy, I said yes, just because I can handle myself at a party, doesn't mean that I am enjoying myself! I can engage in small talk, but I hate small talk and that is all that you engage in, at parties. I like intense one on one conversations more, but usually there is no room for that on parties.

People have a stereotype idea of people on the spectrum. I don't fit that stereotype, so people don't think of me as autistic. But I do have autistic preferences, like watching science fiction, but if I tell people that I went to the latest Star Trek movie, they think that I went because of a guy... Really exhausting!

So as someone on the spectrum I really object to people pointing towards autism as a cause or excuse for this. Elliot Rodger was a petty misogynist. That has nothing to do with being on the spectrum!

I am on the spectrum and I have no intention of ever going on a killing spree! Our brains are wired differently, but not more violent than those who aren't on the spectrum!

I am on the spectrum and I have no intention of ever going on a killing spree! Our brains are wired differently, but not more violent than those who aren't on the spectrum!
You may remember I married a guy on the spectrum, his father was on the spectrum, and our son was finally diagnosed today. And I said the Oregon shooter had autism traits but that isn't the whole or real story. His problems went much deeper than that. Even his parents reported mental illness. We have yet to hear if he had been diagnosed or that was their excuse for his problems and social avoidance. He wanted to be somebody, so chose mass murder as the way to do that.

You may remember I married a guy on the spectrum, his father was on the spectrum, and our son was finally diagnosed today. And I said the Oregon shooter had autism traits but that isn't the whole or real story. His problems went much deeper than that. Even his parents reported mental illness. We have yet to hear if he had been diagnosed or that was their excuse for his problems and social avoidance. He wanted to be somebody, so chose mass murder as the way to do that.

Yes, to me this sounds like a cop out by his parents, just like the father of Elliot Rodger did. They don't want to accept the fact that they had a horrible son, so they blame mental illnes, very selfish, because they are stigmatising mental illnes in that way. Did you read the article that I posted?

Let's get this straight for the record anyone who wants to go and kill a group of people is mentaly ill, they are deranged for whatever reason. It is not a racial thing confined to "white" males. Right now in the ME there are people who are not "white" males doing deranged things, same in places like Nigeria. Ihe issues may however have a religious base as was so in Oregon.

Did you read the article that I posted?
I get Salon.com in my email every day. I read that article when it first came out. "[H]e killed women because he resented them for not sleeping with him, and he killed men because he resented them for having the success he felt he was denied."

Did you see a Salon article today? 4chan and the Oregon shooter: What the suspicious thread says about a horrifying subculture of young male rage - Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/2015/10/02/4chan_and_the_oregon_shooter_what_the_suspicious_t hread_says_about_a_horrifying_subculture_of_young_ male_rage/?source=newsletter)

So if you ask me, God only lend us Jesus for 33 years and for an infinite being like him, 33 years is nothing! So really I am totally not impressed by what God has done to show his love for human kind.

The most important thing happen is not when Christ was on Earth but When He died.

because if he wanted to, he could intervene at any time...
Exactly! But He didn't do that... Why do you think?

I think I am confuse here! You say you know what Jesus said and Love your neighbor and agree etc etc and same time you say you hate Jehovah? I don't get this part!
Also, I think you became atheist directly from being RC, is that right? If not Please correct me!
I get it that you had very bad experience with your world around, family growing up! But please don't fail to consider the experience of people who had different experience then you. They have experience the struggle and love in marriage... same time.
About Pope, Well, I use to agree upon everything what my Father/priest use to say. Until the day I read myself what's in there and tried to seek answers from God himself not any man. I still try to learn from others experience and revelation though.


Yes, I know that Siddharta Gautam left his wive and son but like I said earlier, I am pro divorce as well. He left them well cared for!
You are very well empathizing and reasoning for Buddha! But
And about God giving his only son. I am totally not impressed. For me that is no compensation for every atrocity that he committed in the old testament.
I don't know why you hate God! Atheist means they don't believe in 'God' existence. But you don't hate anything that doesn't exist! So, I don't get this part to! So, why these inconsistencies in your post?

[QUOTE][What is the best way to deal with this problem?/QUOTE]
If you ask me! In regards to your answer for you original and question. I will answer that.
I don't know every answer but I think the best way to deal with it is to start from yourself, what you want to see in the world.

Prescious you seem confused about Jesus. He came with a purpose so he only needed a short time to get the job done, he then left it to us to spread the word, somewhere along the way the message become confused and man started to make it about themselves and exploit others, what we recognise today as religion and the RC is a manifestation of that. You waste your time debating athiests. They want a godless existence, so let them have it, the consequences are theirs

Misspurple, You cannot judge God according to your standard of behaviour

Celet! What I meant is, I am confused about misspurple saying things like she hate bible, God, and same time she believes in Jesus words like love thy neighbor etc. so that was confusing.

Celet! What I meant is, I am confused about misspurple saying things like she hate bible, God, and same time she believes in Jesus words like love thy neighbor etc. so that was confusing.

I don't believe in Jesus anymore. But I didn't forget his teachings and I just don't understand how so many people that still say that they are Christians don't follow those things that he said. If they would, the world would have been a better place.

Did you watch the YouTube clip that I posted with Stephen Frye? He explains very clearly that as an atheist I don't even believe that Jehova exists, so I don't hate him, I can't hate something that doesn't exist, but if he were real, I would despise him.

If even after watching that clip, you still don't understand what my point of view is, I really don't think that I can explain it to you.

I didn't went straight from being a Catholic to an atheist. When I was 18 I wanted to convert to protestantism, because protestants are allowed to use birth control, get a divorce, use IVF etc. But my father exploded. He said that no one in the family ever left Catholicism, so neither would I. The Bible also says that you should honour your parents, so I only stayed Catholic in name.

But Jehova is still Jehova, it doesn't matter whether you are a Catholic or a protestant, what Stephen Frye says, still applies.

Celet! What I meant is, I am confused about misspurple saying things like she hate bible, God, and same time she believes in Jesus words like love thy neighbor etc. so that was confusing.

If you are interested to know in what I do believe in, it is called humanism and contains a lot of values that I used to think were Christian, but it turned out that Confucius already taught the golden rule, it wasn't invented by Christ. When I was still a teenager I really didn't understand where people that didn't believe in God got their morals from. But now I understand that most people have better morals than those of Christianity as soon as they are against slavery or they don't want to stone someone who committed adultery, wears clothes from different fabrics or even eats shrimps.

I understand now that empathy is the source of morals. And as soon as you resort to start calling people Untermenschen or savages or animals, you don't emphatise with them anymore and that is when cruelty starts, which can lead to genocide.

Sorry but Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism... and Judaism goes back to some of the earliest recorded History. I'm College educated so where are these Humanism records that predate Judaism? Most Religions that pre and post dated Judaism in that Era revolved around pagan and Idol worship. Humanism is a relative newcomer.

Oh I think humanism has always been with us, Eve was the first humanist wanting to be like God but questioning his word. I don't listen to people like Fry because they are lost and therefore cannot enlighten me. I know the truth, the manifest reality of God, I have experienced it.

You want to judge God, say his ways are not just but how do you know? You weren't there at the events that are described. Today we are living with the result of Abraham's lack of faith, Ismael. The works of man give birth to Ismaels, the work of God gave birth to Jesus, to someone even you acknowledge the superiority of his teachings. Do the Muslims follow his teachings, no, they follow someone who couldn't discern whether it was God or Satan who was speaking to him, so I don't listen to him either.

Maybe you should go back and study where Judaism evolved from and get some insights into the history of ancient man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrews


Since the Hebrew Bible makes a point of marking the Canaanites (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Canaanites) as peoples set apart from the Israelites, the extent of the distinction between the culture of the Canaanites and the Israelites is a matter of debate. It has been argued that the Israelites were themselves Canaanites, and that "historical Israel", as distinct from "literary" or "Biblical Israel" was a subset of Canaanite culture. It is also known that Israelites and later the subdivision of Israelites known as the Judeans spoke Hebrew as their main language and it is still used in Jewish holy scriptures, study, speech and prayer.

The history of man and his religion is full of examples of a part of a tribe walking away from the bigger and starting it's own dogma, and blasting another tribe's dogma even to the point of WAR. (Read the accounts of the ancient wars) Not very god like behavior in my opinion, but being cruel to a fellow human who is "different" in some way or another can always be justified by whatever god they espouse as a true believer.

In truth there is no difference between humans except the ones they themselve create to elevate themselves over others. That's the conflict of man, trying to convert and assimilate instead of sharing bread.

You want to do something about the hate Misspurple? Its really simple... don't hate. It's not man's planet (Even though he THINKS god GAVE him dominion... dumb humans) he is just along for the ride like the rest of the LIFE here.

Maybe you should go back and study where Judaism evolved from and get some insights into the history of ancient man.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrews



The history of man and his religion is full of examples of a part of a tribe walking away from the bigger and starting it's own dogma, and blasting another tribe's dogma even to the point of WAR. (Read the accounts of the ancient wars) Not very god like behavior in my opinion, but being cruel to a fellow human who is "different" in some way or another can always be justified by whatever god they espouse as a true believer.

In truth there is no difference between humans except the ones they themselve create to elevate themselves over others. That's the conflict of man, trying to convert and assimilate instead of sharing bread.

You want to do something about the hate Misspurple? Its really simple... don't hate. It's not man's planet (Even though he THINKS god GAVE him dominion... dumb humans) he is just along for the ride like the rest of the LIFE here.

Hi Talaniman, I don't hate people and certainly not white people or Christians like some people think. I hate hate, I have no tolerance for intolerance. So it are the actions that I condemn, done by individuals, I don't blame an entire group for the actions of some of their members.

I hate terrorism, but I don't hate all Muslims or Christians, just because both groups include some fanatics that use their religion as an excuse to murder nonbelievers.

So I already took your advice and I reach out to people of all colors and all religions, but is that really all that I can do? It really doesn't help to prevent the before mentioned Hungarian journalist from kicking a refugee for example. How can we stop that hatred? That is what my question is about. How do we stop people from burning mosques, what is happening today here in The Netherlands? And how do we stop some of those horrible Muslim Youth in The Netherlands from terrorising the LGBT community? I am really not blind to the atrocities that Muslims commit, as some people seem to think on this thread. I am against all intolerance, not only by white Christians, but also by Muslims or the LGBT. In 2002 a gay Dutch politician got murdered, he was a racist: Pim Fortuyn. I think that it is wrong that he got killed, but I also had a problem with the hate that he spread towards Muslims, so I don't have a blind spot for the hatred that the LGBT community can spread as well.

My question is about those hatefull people, that spread lies about refugees and call them animals or say that they should be killed. Is there anything that can be done, to let them see the errors in their way of thinking?

You cannot control the thoughts and actions of others, let alone what they feel in their hearts. You can only do your best to control your own thoughts, actions, and heart.

In a word, don't let others get you all jacked up. You will be a crazy frustrated nut if you think they will change. So let them be the crazy frustrated NUTS they wish to make of you. Understand they can no more change the hearts of others either so don't let them change yours.

They are not perfect but neither are you (Or ME ;D). Don't try to be perfect, just be GOOD!

Nobody here is trying to change her religion... or lack thereof... she can worship the container of sugar on the shelf if it makes her happy. I'm no missionary and believe everyone will get what they deserve when the die and meet their maker.

If the Atheists are tight... nobody will ever know because everything will end when you die. If they aren't well, what happens next is a result of their own choices. Its amazing that people believe there is no god or afterlife get so excited and worked up about other people that think there is.

She is as entitled to whatever opinion she has as you are. If you can trash a whole race then expect to get trashed in return.

She is the only one that's trashed any race here so far...specifically bashed WHITE people (and almost exclusively United States Citizens) accusing them of Genocides that never happened in numbers that were wildly inflated by orders of magnitude.

I bashed Islam and have every right to...in fact I have more of a right than most do in that area. And Islam is not a race...its a choice.

Dude... really?? You bash races and religions on a regular basis and it's the height of hypocrisy you take offense when you THINK someone else is bashing YOU and yours. You didn't bother correcting her so called untrue facts with facts of your own either.

Stop playing victim you big bully!

What RACE? Plenty of times She SPECIFICALLY bashed Whites, Christians, Americans in this thread... accusing them of Genocides that never happened, claimed numbers that were clearly impossible , acted like the only slavery that ever happened anywhere was here, In fact she did it over and over again. And I can back up EVERYTHING I claim... she however can't back up anything. Sorry tal but as much as I respect you... she has not only crossed certain lines over and over... she spit in our faces as well. Not to mention specifically claiming to be morally superior to everyone else.
Yes... in the posts that were editied and deleted. I remember a couple specifically that are no longer there.
Yeah... I have a right to respond to that... particularly since it was she that started that.

I overlook a lot of things...but I can not overlook series of complete fallacies and attacks from someone who has openly professed their hatred towards Amercians and White people specificly. THen turns around and pretends they never said it after repeating it a dozen + times.

I don't know where she gets these numbers and "facts" from....particularly since she doesn't even live on this side of the Atlantic. Her parents were from a seriously impoverished country...which does not have a world class education system...one in which she was at least partially educated in.

Personally I don't care of she is atheist. Its her choice, and I have no desire to convert her but it doesn't make her better than everyone else like she thinks and has basically said.

I'd have given her a lot more leeway if her English skills were not as good as they are. Because she does have an impressive grasp of English. I'm fluent in Italian...but its still not as good as her English is.

You know where she gets her facts from, she has been listening to athiests and muslims and probably a few south american revolutionaries along the way

Dude... really?? You bash races and religions on a regular basis and it's the height of hypocrisy you take offense when you THINK someone else is bashing YOU and yours. You didn't bother correcting her so called untrue facts with facts of your own either.

Stop playing victim you big bully!

Thank you Talaniman:-).

You cannot control the thoughts and actions of others, let alone what they feel in their hearts. You can only do your best to control your own thoughts, actions, and heart.

In a word, don't let others get you all jacked up. You will be a crazy frustrated nut if you think they will change. So let them be the crazy frustrated NUTS they wish to make of you. Understand they can no more change the hearts of others either so don't let them change yours.

They are not perfect but neither are you (Or ME ;D). Don't try to be perfect, just be GOOD!

I am very aware that I am not perfect! It is too bad that there is nothing that I can do against a lot of intolerance.

But since I personally made some changes, I know that some people sometimes can change. And although some people try to poison my heart with hatred for others, I don't let them:-).

I am very aware that I am not perfect! It is too bad that there is nothing that I can do against a lot of intolerance.

But since I personally made some changes, I know that some people sometimes can change. And although some people try to poison my heart with hatred for others, I don't let them:-).

Do you know where intolerance comes from? It comes from the actions of people. Some people don't act in a reasonable manner, they don't respect and as a result you get chaos, look a Muslims in places like Pakistan, for example, they used the cartoons published in Europe as an excuse to kill their own people and rampage. Now I can understand people in Holland being upset, but half a world away, they are just looking for an excuse.

You want to change, widen your circle of friends, allow others to express themselves and stay away from social media because we don't care what they say on Facebook

Yeah misspurple, be like Clete and hate all Muslims (native, asians and americans, and the list goes on) for the actions of a few and give the prejudiced their due respect.

Sorry Clete it's not okay to attack constantly and then be offended when you THINK you are attacked.


You want to change, widen your circle of friends, allow others to express themselves and stay away from social media because we don't care what they say on Facebook

What's this we stuff Kimosabe?

Hi tal her original post said she came here because of what she saw on Facebook, I guess she couldn't get a good rational argument. As far as Muslims are concerned they are the most deceived people on Earth and what is sad is they cannot discern it. Tell me tal who else do you see committing widespread mayhem these days, aside from some misguided souls in the US who may or may not be influenced by them. By the way I'm not the lone stranger

Point is Tal anyone can attack me but like Braveheart they shall never take my freedom. There are no native muslims where I live, just the migrant kind, the natives don't like them

Morning to you Clete. Thanks for not disappointing by doubling down on your prejudice, but shouldn't you take your own advice and expand your own knowledge wider than your own social circle? Braveheart did more than talk amongst his fellows he did something about his oppression, as are many Muslims across the globe. I will agree some are misguided and stupid, choosing to kill innocents, but humans running from conflicts in their native land is a long held natural traditional reaction.

Everybody has done it, and that's the basis of this thread. Just because you and Smoothy refuse to acknowledge the elephant and focus on the trunk is not anybody's fault but your own. Playing bully and victim is so disgusting.

Enjoy your freedom today, if that's what you want to call your entitled arrogance.

Thank you Talaniman:-).Talk about the pot calling the Kettle Black.

YOU are the person here who basically called everyone who is not you a racist.

But don't fear... YOU can have all the Muslims you want in your tiny little country. When they start acting like they have in England.. and in France... don't come to us for help, because you asked for it. It isn't IF, but WHEN it will happen. 1,600 years of History proves it will. Just like every it has every other place on Earth.. That's a FACT... that's REALITY. Ignore history at your own peril. Your English is good enough I'm certain you understand what "Ignore history at your own peril" means. There is also another saying....those that ignore the past are doomed to repeat it.

Its not the individual that is the threat on average....its the collective and the mob mentality when they collect in numbers great enough in any one place. I have a number of Muslims I consider good friends..I however know well enough what they do in large enough numbers that I do not trust them in the whole.

And I have actual direct experience backing that up...not knowing just a couple people then jumping to the conclusion they are all just like them.

My work and life experience has had me places, seen things not to mention done things....very , very few people have.and likely no more than a couple on this entire site have...if that many. The sort of things most people only see in movies or read about in books. The sorts of things I am not even allowed legally to specify in any sort of detail.

The fact is the world isn't all about absolutes...Good or bad, black or white....Because it is all about shades of grey...and degrees of good or bad. Believing otherwise is dangerous and foolish.

And trusting the wrong people for idealistic reasons while pointing fingers at the people who you really want to be your friends can have serious and sometimes fatal consequences when the people you thought were friends turn on you and the people that wanted to be your friends turn their backs because you put them down.

Oh give it up and go back to worshipping Assad and Vlad, your heroes. France isn't all that big on religious freedoms not even for Christians so go spit!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_law_on_secularity_and_conspicuous_religious _symbols_in_schools

I don't believe in Jesus anymore. But I didn't forget his teachings and I just don't understand how so many people that still say that they are Christians don't follow those things that he said. If they would, the world would have been a better place.

Did you watch the YouTube clip that I posted with Stephen Frye? He explains very clearly that as an atheist I don't even believe that Jehova exists, so I don't hate him, I can't hate something that doesn't exist, but if he were real, I would despise him.
.
If even after watching that clip, you still don't understand what my point of view is, I really don't think that I can explain it to you.

I didn't went straight from being a Catholic to an atheist. When I was 18 I wanted to convert to protestantism, because protestants are allowed to use birth control, get a divorce, use IVF etc. But my father exploded. He said that no one in the family ever left Catholicism, so neither would I. The Bible also says that you should honour your parents, so I only stayed Catholic in name.

But Jehova is still Jehova, it doesn't matter whether you are a Catholic or a protestant, what Stephen Frye says, still applies.

Okey! I get it that, you are a humanitarian. You don't believe in any Jesus. I understand your concern about people telling they are Christian but do the opposite way and I totally agree with you on this, this is very unfortunate. But here is the thing misspurple, People have their own walk with God and also they are in different level of growing, all are in different level of revelation, some are baby some are grown. Don't let other's action cause you to disbelieve in what you were believing. Its Just between you and God. People will fall, they are not perfect. When I was very young Christian I would have done so many things that doesn't align with the word of God thinking that I was doing it right. But as I grew more and more, I got corrected and have myself grew more in wisdom and revelation to do those same thing correctly.

A Youtube clip! I get an idea of what you believe but its not going to change my heart and real life experiences and presence of God as an evidence of His existence in my life. HE has healed me, protected me, rescued me and saved me. I have seen paralyzed people walking in Jesus name after being paralyzed about 28/27 yrs, I have seen cancer vanishing from body even it was 3rd stage, I have seen people living a sober life, I have seen marriage been saved, I have seen providence in life out of nowhere, I have seen pain going off in Jesus name, I have seen cancer cell getting vanished in Jesus name and doctors wondering in amazement that where did it go? I have seen deaf hearing in Jesus name, Just last week I have seen my friend healed in Jesus name, walking without crutches and jumping and running after 5 months being in accident and told by others that she is going to be disable for her whole life. When I see her walking and in her eyes the tears of gratitude and Joy and humbleness, I cant stop myself being humbled and more strongly falling in Love with God. And many many many more I cant write it here. SO, I cant even dare to question His existence when He has revealed me again and again. ''I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.'' ''Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find... ''
I don't know what else to say, I can speak for myself not forcing anybody. This is it!

Okey! I get it that, you are a humanitarian. You don't believe in any Jesus. I understand your concern about people telling they are Christian but do the opposite way and I totally agree with you on this, this is very unfortunate. But here is the thing misspurple, People have their own walk with God and also they are in different level of growing, all are in different level of revelation, some are baby some are grown. Don't let other's action cause you to disbelieve in what you were believing. Its Just between you and God. People will fall, they are not perfect. When I was very young Christian I would have done so many things that doesn't align with the word of God thinking that I was doing it right. But as I grew more and more, I got corrected and have myself grew more in wisdom and revelation to do those same thing correctly.

A Youtube clip! I get an idea of what you believe but its not going to change my heart and real life experiences and presence of God as an evidence of His existence in my life. HE has healed me, protected me, rescued me and saved me. I have seen paralyzed people walking in Jesus name after being paralyzed about 28/27 yrs, I have seen cancer vanishing from body even it was 3rd stage, I have seen people living a sober life, I have seen marriage been saved, I have seen providence in life out of nowhere, I have seen pain going off in Jesus name, I have seen cancer cell getting vanished in Jesus name and doctors wondering in amazement that where did it go? I have seen deaf hearing in Jesus name, Just last week I have seen my friend healed in Jesus name, walking without crutches and jumping and running after 5 months being in accident and told by others that she is going to be disable for her whole life. When I see her walking and in her eyes the tears of gratitude and Joy and humbleness, I cant stop myself being humbled and more strongly falling in Love with God. And many many many more I cant write it here. SO, I cant even dare to question His existence when He has revealed me again and again. ''I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.'' ''Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find... ''
I don't know what else to say, I can speak for myself not forcing anybody. This is it!

God never answered my prayers, so I have a totally different experience. But I am not trying to take your faith from you, I only tried to take away your confusion about what my beliefs exactly are.

Oh give it up and go back to worshipping Assad and Vlad, your heroes. France isn't all that big on religious freedoms not even for Christians so go spit!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_law_on_secularity_and_conspicuous_religious _symbols_in_schools

The French aren't all that big on a lot of stuff. Funny how people can call the Americans Arrogant... but ignore the French and most other Europeans.

Plenty of arrogance to go around there too. Don't have to spend that much time there to see it either. It's not a bad place to visit... but I wouldn't want to live there. And I have spent a fair amount of time there. Cleaner on average than Italy... but the Italian people are not nearly as uppity as most of Europe is. Weathers better in Italy too. But then Italy has a lot of arrogant people too.

And no... I don't have ANY Italian blood in my History. German yeah... 50%... 0% Italian.

I just read the article, I hadn't come around to it earlier. I already knew that there are a lot angry, entitled, misogynistic men out there. Asides from all the guns there, I blame American culture and upbringing, not mental illnes for that. We never had a shooter like that over here. There are also a lot more rapes over there than here. You probably won't like what I will say right now, but I see the Bible as a misogynistic book. The Abrahamic God is representative for a patriarchical society. Because the US is so Christian it is so patriarchal. It is very secular over here, so those values aren't as intertwined with Dutch society as with US society. According to the Bible women should be obedient. So unconsciously these angry misogynists, feel that they are being wronged, for not having sex with an obedient girlfriend, that they are raised to believe would adore them.

In the US a lot of children are being raised with the idea that they should save themselves for marriage. Here premarital sex is the norm. But there lots of people already slutshame you for simply not being a virgin. Once young women are labeled sluts, they are respected less and that makes it easier to rape them.

So, I am absolutely not saying this to upset you, but if it was just simply mental illnes, there would have been as much angry male shootings over here as there. Everybody will agree with me, that there is no reason to assume that the mental health is that much better in Europe as in the US, so why does this keeps happening in the US? I blame it on this and of course on the gun laws over there.

I blame it on this and of course on the gun laws over there.
He legally purchased guns. The huge majority of U.S. gun owners don't become mass murderers. (And I'm not an NRA member or "gun nut.") But look at the age of this shooter and Adam Lanza's age and Dylann Roof's age and the ages of most of the recent mass murderers. Do you see something interesting? Maybe that's what we need to consider and wonder why. And start doing something about it.

He legally purchased guns. The huge majority of U.S. gun owners don't become mass murderers. (And I'm not an NRA member or "gun nut.") But look at the age of this shooter and Adam Lanza's age and Dylann Roof's age and the ages of most of the recent mass murderers. Do you see something interesting? Maybe that's what we need to consider and wonder why. And start doing something about it.

Yes, he legally purchased guns. I am absolutely certain of it, that with better laws, just like Obama said, this could have been prevented.

Yes, age also has something to do with it. That is what I also addressed, I think that the US culture produces young entitled men. They get so angry because they feel entitled to something that they don't get. They idolise each other. On another forum there was this guy that really did say that he had Asperger's and he idolised Elliot Rodger. They banned him, but he kept coming back. He asked questions like: Should women be killed if they refuse to suck an autistic guys penis. I suspect that I know his name, because he once posted his Facebook profile picture, asking us for our opinions of him. I am not a US citizen, but in light of what happened, do you think that it is wise to give his information to the US authorities? In case this guy plans to be the next shooter?

There are many guns laws now that are not enforced or fully enforced. What gun law would have stopped the Oregon shooter?

The one that would have prevented him from owning a gun! But as you know I am a foreigner, so I really didn't know that there are laws, that aren't being enforced or what they exacty entail. So maybe one of those laws would have been enough, if it was enforced.

Did you see Obama's speech?

"This is a political choice that we make to allow this to happen every few months in America. We collectively are answerable to those families who lose their loves ones because of our inaction. When Americans are killed in mine disasters, we work to make mines safer. When Americans are killed in floods and hurricanes, we make communities safer. When roads are unsafe, we fix them to reduce auto fatalities. We have seatbelt laws because we know it saves lives. The notion that gun violence is somehow different—that our freedom and our Constitution prohibits any modest regulation of how we use a deadly weapon, when there are law-abiding gun owners all across the country who could hunt, and protect their families, and do everything they do under such regulations—doesn't make sense."

First time that I saw a like by Mark Zuckerberg himself, BTW!

But why would he have been prevented? He had no prison or mental-illness history.

Yes, I saw Obama's speech.

I just read the article, I hadn't come around to it earlier. I already knew that there are a lot angry, entitled, misogynistic men out there. Asides from all the guns there, I blame American culture and upbringing, not mental illnes for that. We never had a shooter like that over here. There are also a lot more rapes over there than here. You probably won't like what I will say right now, but I see the Bible as a misogynistic book. The Abrahamic God is representative for a patriarchical society. Because the US is so Christian it is so patriarchal. It is very secular over here, so those values aren't as intertwined with Dutch society as with US society. According to the Bible women should be obedient. So unconsciously these angry misogynists, feel that they are being wronged, for not having sex with an obedient girlfriend, that they are raised to believe would adore them.

In the US a lot of children are being raised with the idea that they should save themselves for marriage. Here premarital sex is the norm. But there lots of people already slutshame you for simply not being a virgin. Once young women are labeled sluts, they are respected less and that makes it easier to rape them.

So, I am absolutely not saying this to upset you, but if it was just simply mental illnes, there would have been as much angry male shootings over here as there. Everybody will agree with me, that there is no reason to assume that the mental health is that much better in Europe as in the US, so why does this keeps happening in the US? I blame it on this and of course on the gun laws over there.

Oh yes there have been shootings in Europe They have made the news...do you even watch the news?... The violent crime rate in most have Europe is Higher than it is in the USA. In fact in the UK its TWICE as high as the USA. But then... why let things like facts get in the way of a rant.

DO you actually think taking away guns will stop Killings? You are seriously delusional if you think that.

And Taking away guns.. Thats How Hitler and the National Socialists could solidify power like they did, They disarmed everyone. But then... Europeans really don't have a concept of what a bull of rights is... they don't have one. Any rights the have today can EASILY be taken away tomorrow.

The City I live in has had ONE....read that ONE murder in the last 5 years and it wasn't gun related..it was a stabbing...maybe you think its a good idea to outlaw knives...far more people get stabbed to death with knives than shot. Statistics back that up...look them up. Good luck finding a city in Europe that can make that same claim.

In fact motor vehicles kill far, far more people than anything else, maybe you want to outlaw them too, How about hammers, 2X4 wooden beams in fact anything that can be used as a club....far more people are beaten to death with blunt objects than guns....but why let facts get in the way.

Seriously where are you getting these "facts"...are you dreaming them up?

Want to keep people safe..you lock up the criminals and keep the people with mental disorders off the streets. Because you can't force them to stay on their medications. And that's when many of them become a danger.

Most gun owners NEVER commit a crime in their lives...But most people that have committed murders have committed other crimes previously or have some sort of mental illness. Blame them..not the guns. They are inanimate object....No gun has every gotten up and shot anyone ever in history. They can't. Its impossible.

And a lot of these "angry young Males"... are taught to be that way....they are never punished growing up, they are taught they are special and they are taught they are entitled to anything they want.....not anything they work hard enough to earn, most are never taught to have respect for anyone or anything. They think they are entitled to respect despite having never done anything to earn it.

When they find out the real world is not like they were taught to believe they get angry and upset they can't have everything right now without working to earn it.

I worked hard for 34 years AFTER college to get where I am....kids today think they are entitled to everything right out of school. They aren't willing to work their way up...because NOBODY fresh out of school knows as much as they will even a few more years out of school if they work hard and apply themselves.

Ask an 18 year old and they think they know everything. Ask that same person at 30 and they will laugh about how little they knew at 18 despite what they thought at the time.

Again, that is why I do not blame mental illnes. Here you need a valid reason to get a gun, could he have provided one? Here they take a psycholigical test when you want to purchase a gun, did they take one from him?

Of course it is impossible to say without a doubt that this particular case could have been prevented, but the cause of why this has happened for the 15th times, since Obama became President in the US, should be taken care of, so that this will at least happen less often.

We had one mass shooting in The Netherlands, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphen_aan_den_Rijn_shopping_mall_shooting on April 9th 2011 and that one was definitely preventable! In the past a gun permit was denied, but they overlooked his psychiatric history, when they did give him a permit. His parents immediately protested in 2008 and alerted the authorities, that their son shouldn't be allowed to own guns, but the authorities didn't reacted as they should. So since the shooting here was the direct result of people not doing their jobs, I do believe that some mass shootings are preventable and at least some of the 15 that Obama had to deal with, were preventable.

But that is all that I can say about it, I am not an expert in these matters.

EDIT: To avoid any confusion, Tristan wasn't an angry misogynist, Anders Breivik, the Norwegian shooter, was a racist, not a misogynist. So allthough we do have mass shooters here, they seem to have another motive than most of the shooters in the US and that is where I think the culture plays a role. Anders Breivik is different anyway: he is still alive! He didn't wanted to commit suidice, he wanted to change the world! Anders Breivik is the one shooter that could have been assesed by psychiatrists and he wasn't mentally ill.

Which psychological test? Who gives it? Who scores it? Who pays for it?

But why would he have been prevented? He had no prison or mental-illness history.

Yes, I saw Obama's speech.

Obama is an idiot. ( he has fought hard to keep his college transcripts a secret, so he can't prove he really was smart or even had good grades.)
He proves it every time he opens his mouth. Thank goodness we will soon be relieved of the blight he has brought to this country.

Well, I would say psychologists that are approved by the government and of course the person wanting the permit, should have to pay for it! I also paid for my driverslicense, for the lessons, for the exam, all of that to keep the streets safe, so why would it be any different for a gun?

At least the purpose of a car is not to kill, the purpose of a gun is to kill!

Again, that is why I do not blame mental illnes. Here you need a valid reason to get a gun, could he have provided one? Here they take a psycholigical test when you want to purchase a gun, did they take one from him?

Of course it is impossible to say without a doubt that this particular case could have been prevented, but the cause of why this has happened for the 15th times, since Obama became President in the US, should be taken care of, so that this will at least happen less often.

We had one mass shooting in The Netherlands, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alphen_aan_den_Rijn_shopping_mall_shooting on April 9th 2011 and that one was definitely preventable! In the past a gun permit was denied, but they overlooked his psychiatric history, when they did give him a permit. His parents immediately protested in 2008 and alerted the authorities, that their son shouldn't be allowed to own guns, but the authorities didn't reacted as they should. So since the shooting here was the direct result of people not doing their jobs, I do believe that some mass shootings are preventable and at least some of the 15 that Obama had to deal with, were preventable.

But that is all that I can say about it, I am not an expert in these matters.

EDIT: To avoid any confusion, Tristan wasn't an angry misogynist, Anders Breivik, the Norwegian shooter, was a racist, not a misogynist. So allthough we do have mass shooters here, they seem to have another motive than most of the shooters in the US and that is where I think the culture plays a role. Anders Breivik is different anyway: he is still alive! He didn't wanted to commit suidice, he wanted to change the world! Anders Breivik is the one shooter that could have been assesed by psychiatrists and he wasn't mentally ill.

No you DON'T have to have a valid reason... You should have to have a valid reason to open your mouth and talk before you are allowed too? We have the RIGHT to have them... that's a GOD GIVEN RIGHT. And it is codified in our constitution... stupid people also have the right to make fools out of themselves too... that's another one. NO rights are more sacred than the right to own guns and defend yourself.

In fact people that even think they have the right to deny our right to own guns... is dangerous and a threat to everyone and freedom everywhere.

Funny how Europeans have no grasp of what rights actuall yare or how sacred they are... when any "right" they have today can be taken away tomorrow and there is nothing they can do.

In fact IN many states you actually have the right to carry guns...You don't see many thugs committing crimes in VA, But cross the river into DC where only criminals have guns...crime is rampant.

In fact EVERY mass shooting that has ever happened was in a gun free zone......lot of good that did. Criminals don't obey the law...and it meant law abiding citizens that could have stopped them were not armed to do anything.

No you DON'T have to have a valid reason... You should have to have a valid reason to open your mouth and talk before you are allowed too? We have the RIGHT to have them... that's a GOD GIVEN RIGHT. And it is codified in our constitution... stupid people also have the right to make fools out of themselves too... that's another one. NO rights are more sacred than the right to own guns and defend yourself.

In fact people that even think they have the right to deny our right to own guns... is dangerous and a threat to everyone and freedom everywhere.

Funny how Europeans have no grasp of what rights actuall yare or how sacred they are... when any "right" they have today can be taken away tomorrow and there is nothing they can do.


And if you think something is so just because you found it in Wikipedia. You are a fool. Ask wondergirl....I gave her one example were NOTHING on Wikipedia or elsewhere on the Internet was factual. There are LOTS of examples were its contents on certain topics is completely inaccurate. Sure SOME things are. But then a broken clock is still right twice a day too.

Google Alien Abduction....take a look at the numbers of topics...doesn't make it so....same with Bigfoot. Lots of people are convinced that is real.....yet no proof exists.

Yup, that Second Amendment militia....

Yup, that Second Amendment militia....

Is this your reaction to my reaction? I am sorry, but I don't know what you mean. What is your opinion on the 2nd amendment and the NRA?

Did you read this:

I am an American and a USN veteran. I am a long time gun owner. My guns are registered and I have a permit to carry them. I am all in favor of CHANGE to our current laws concerning gun control. Serious change. I do not hide behind the 2nd amendment or twist its meaning as the NRA and the gun manufacturers do to further their cause in their effort to flood our streets with guns. These two entities are joined at the hip and one cannot survive without the other. They do not make the rules, but they think they do, and I want to put an end to it. I actually hold them COMPLICIT in every massacre and shooting in America. They may not have pulled the trigger but they certainly supplied the ammunition.
It's time for CHANGE right now. This cartel (NRA and gun manufacturers) need to be held accountable. We need a ban on automatic weapons as well as large capacity magazines. We need full registration for all semi-automatic weapons. We need licensing and training for anyone in order to carry . We need some type of a mental evaluation for those who want to own these weapons. Anyone who owns or intends to own a gun should also need a permit to do so.
Owning and carrying a LETHAL weapon should come with some serious Responsibility.
No one should be able to simply walk into a gun store an buy an AR 15 and large capacity magazines without having to show that they are responsible enough to do so.
Thank you.

It is the top reaction at Obama's speech on Facebook. I totally agree with this man.

I was reacting to smoothy's comment about the right to own guns.

Years ago, a friend of mine legally bought an AR-15. Orin had been tested at 85 IQ. I prayed he and the rest of Illinois would be safe. He had no business owning a gun.

Typical Liberal... that thinks OPINIONS of a bill or rights changes anything. Its fixed its in writing. Its no less sacred than anyone's right to free speech or anything else.

Its people LIKE YOU that are complicit with people that murder others... not the NRA. You really are completely out of touch with reality. Thank god you are in Europe... not here.

WHat do you know about the NRA?. not one damn thing. You have never even been to the USA... you have no concept of what freedom is and what its like to be an American.

You also have no grasp of what it is to be accountable.

What we need is mental evaluations for people kike you that think they are better than everyone else... because people like YOU that think they have any right to even comment on what another country and it s people can or even should do is a serious danger.

YOU would have been one of the people handing over the Jews to the Naxis and their sympathizers if you have been alive during that period.


We need a ban on people like YOU opening your mouth... because you clearly are poorly educated... and have a very poor grasp of facts.

People like you should have to have a permit to be allowed to even use the enternet or speak. Don't like that do you... well you really don't have the right to make those demands... and you haven't shown that you are responsible enough to even be allowed to use the internet.

Good lord... are you off your meds or something... seriously. You vote Communist party, don't you? Because you make liberals look conservative. Next you are going to be saying anyone that doesn't think like you should not be allowed to vote too.

What do you really know about the USA... you have proven you really know absolutely NOTHING. And in fact have proven 90% of what you think you know is wrong...

You are delusional. YOU deserve Obama, why don't you invite him tot move there so he can bankrupt your country too... and you deserve the crime that will follow all those illegals. Lets hope they come to your home town. Maybe you will find out what they are really like then.

NO wonder The Netherlands are an even bigger Joke than France is worldwide.

But at the end of the day....when your crime rates skyrocket....your house robbed....remember...you brought this all upon yourself.

Because thank Goodness...people like you DON'T exist in large numbers...and don't exist here....and nothing you can do or say...changes OUR legal right to have guns....and have fun with them. I'd rather have 20 gun shops near me than 20 drug bars where everyone abuses drugs daily like there.

Gun shops and gun owners are ALL better, safer and nicer people that any of the drug addicts you have there. As well as all your self righteous know-it-alls.

I trust gun owners...I do not trust the Dutch....no gun owner has considered denying other peoples rights.

Good luck trying to take our guns.....we have over 350 million will armed citizens that will shoot anyone that trys. So you better accept it and get used to it because its NOT going to change.

Oh..next time you need our Military to save your butts......don't bother calling us. you can try talking them to death....see how well that works.

smoothy wants to protect his 2nd amendment rights but it really comes down to this; in a nation where there is no implicit right to life why should anyone care who shoots who, implicitally you have the right to commit murder, and it you don't your second amendment rights are impinged. Does an prisoner have 2nd amendment rights? If not then it is not an inalienable right and therefore should be regulated. You want to bare arms but most people forego this right because sensibly it is dangerous to do so and they just own guns, if you wore a sword in the street today you would be arrested so what is so special about guns. Don't worry one day you will grow up and stop playing with guns

Paraclete. It's the people who foam at the mouths about others ACTUAL right to own weapons that are the ones that support baby murder the most. Which is exactly what abortion is. Want to talk about right to life? TO the average gun grabbing liberal. A baby has no right to life, but Criminals do. They believe criminals have a greater right than law abiding citizens have.

I see very strong parallels between a certain member who bashes gun owners... drips hatred towards whites, Christians and others that don't think like she does... and thinks they are somehow superior to everyone else.

Does everyone remember the Brownshirts, . of the National Socialist movement of the 30's? I remember...and I'm sure you do too, but I guess someone else's education somehow didn't cover that because that's exactly how they are acting.

Those who feel they have the RIGHT to murder the innocent (aka Abortion)....really don't believe in an implicit right to life. Criminals do not have one. Specifically criminals who commit criminal acts upon others.

A criminal who assaults me or my family..or breaks into my house has no implicit right to life.

I think you just proved my point, if there is no implicit right to life, then murder become a right supported by a right to be armed. There is no difference between those who don't give the unborn right to life and those who defend themselves at the point of a gun. I don't agree with the abolition of the death penalty in cases of murder or serious crime either. What purpose is served by keeping a murderer, rapist or pedophile alive? Time an time again we have seen such people reoffend. What purpose is served by keeping a terrorist alive? Why should we allow those who would radicalise a teenager to remain alive. The answer is we are stupid

I agree... there is a serious hipocracy with those who support abortion yet fight against the Death Penalty. This is not a Muslim nation. The death penalty is not given out to minor crimes. And its not given without a lot of rights of appeal, which I believe is 10 appeals through the courts are allowed before it will take place unless the right to appeal is waved by the individual.

The person having the abortion denies all of that to an innocent party that has never harmed anyone or committed any crime.

Me personally I am not a rabid pro-lifer but I am not on the opposing side by a long shot. I view it as most of the people getting them are doing the Human gene pool a favor by not polluting it as much.

I view it as most of the people getting them are doing the Human gene pool a favor by not polluting it as much.You mean black people, right?

You mean black people, right?

No.. I mean everyone that gets an abortion, regardless of ethnicity. Most of them are too lazy to actually use birth control, or more like not smart enough to know what actually IS birth control. Read some of the Am I pregnant threads....I rest my case.

Speak for yourself Clete, unless you actually read our constitution and understand it. Don't feel bad though as many who claim they are for the constitution get it wrong. How else can they quote their rights but deny others those rights (Abortion for example)? Yes, it's been a constitutional right of women since the 70's.

So nit pick your favorite right, because if YOU are so entitled, so is everyone else right? That's how we get a young nut having the legal right to buy 14 guns, and kill a bunch of folks in a state that allows carrying a gun on a college campus.

He wasn't a criminal until he killed people, including himself. Ranting and raving over your rights because of what YOU like and dislike is no more important than MY rights no matter how hard you worked, or how smart and experienced you are, your predisposition on who is better than who notwithstanding.

We may not be a Muslim country, but you cannot ignore the muslims who live peacefully within our laws. Even though the founders made laws based on Christian principles, we are a republic, and not a Christian nation.

While you are free to thump your bible, it matters NOT what bible you thump. Read your constitution.

I don't know Tal... Obama has been publicly making claims some of our Founders were Muslims... Obama however has never been able to prove who they were. Because there is no proof of that claim at all. In fact all the proof is to the Contrary. Not ONE person who sighed the Declaration of independence OR the Bill or rights was ever a Muslim. But not all that did were religious either.

But you are right... we are a Republic.. not a Democracy.. ( amazing how many people don't know the difference)

If you mean his speech celebrating the Muslim holiday, twisted by haters to mean something totally different, we can debate that claim unless you have links that say other wise.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/07/27/statement-president-occasion-eid-al-fitr

On the basis of...

American Muslim History (http://islam101.com/history/muslim_us_hist.html)

I find no claim he made that Muslims signed the Declaration of Independence... so show me those claims YOU reference please and let's debate FACTS and not propaganda.

Islam like Christianity has many followers and branches and some are not as representative as others as I have referenced MANY examples of this on this forum MANY times for many of the major religions that have both bad actors and bad behavior in whatever god they claim.

Misinformation is the true culprit of misunderstandings throughout history and only a devil would serve such food for the closed minded. Upon study you may be shocked to find the Good People of Islam are no different than the Good People of Christianity, or any other religion.

Haters cannot stand that simple TRUTH.

Well I heard the same speech. And I take him at his word.. literally... and he did make such claims. The Democrats claim he is so elegant with words... no need to take anything other than face value.

And I have the Best reason in the world there can be to HATE ISLAM. I was one of their targets, they tried to kill me and almost succeeded that got away. They did kill people I know and friends of mine. And the majority of them are in support of that element to various degrees.

Sorry... I do NOT have to like them or have any sympathetic thoughts towards them. I can NOT turn the other cheek particularly with that group who is so hypersensitive they are still living in the 6th century and bellyaching about what happened over a thousand years ago. And still killing people over what happened generations ago.

smoothy, what did Obama say to make you think some of our founders were Muslim?

smoothy, what did Obama say to make you think some of our founders were Muslim?

He made statements about Muslims founding this country... no Muslims were involved in the founding of this this country. There is no evidence there were even any Muslims involved in the fighting for our independence. They are latecomers.

Since this is all about founders... later wars do not apply.

He made statements about Muslims founding this country... no Muslims were involved in the founding of this this country. There is no evidence there were even any Muslims involved in the fighting for our independence. They are latecomers.

Since this is all about founders... later wars do not apply.
I find it very hard to believe that he said that. Even third graders know that's not true. Do you have a link to this?

There is some disturbing raciest statements that I have read during this post. Calling refugees 'lazy, stupid and cowedly' because these people are fleeing genocide and forced migration. I'm sure the people who have made these statements are to ignorant to even acknowledge that they are raciest which is why it is hard to change someone's mind.

There is some disturbing raciest statements that I have read during this post. Calling refugees 'lazy, stupid and cowedly' because these people are fleeing genocide and forced migration. I'm sure the people who have made these statements are to ignorant to even acknowledge that they are raciest which is why it is hard to change someone's mind.

Really and your Life experience proving they aren't is what exactly. Do you even know what defines Genocide? Apparently not. Syrian is not an ethnicity... its a nationality. The Iranians and some of the Jews are the only actual different Ethnic groups in the area...

Genocide is an attempt to wipe out a specific ETHNIC group. THat isn't happening there.

Are any of these people fighting for their homeland... no they are running... most of them are able bodied Males... not children, women or old people. That makes them Cowards. Europe does not border Syria... why can't they stay in any one of THOSE countries. Explain THAT.

People like YOU who are arrogant enough to think YOUR perspective is the only one.

Maybe if you got out of your town once in a while you might get a better view of things. Its clear you have no concept of the trouble these illegals.. and that IS what they are are causing in Europe. I know a LOT of Europeans....most of them don't want them there and for good reason.

And Europe does have the right to decide if they will accept them or not. Funny how no Muslim countries are opening invitations for them. Wonder why that is?

And its ALWAYS the people that scream Racist at others that are the ones who themselves are the true racists.

In fact..why doesn't RUSSIA take them all...they are so bound on escalating all of this. Last I heard they weren't taking any.

I have personal direct first hand experience with the Albanian "Refugees"....the Libyan Tunisian, and Algerian "refugees"...not to mention the Romanian "refugees" in Europe

None of them are good contributors to the countries they invade. The Syrians won't be either.

Its comical how the armchair quarterbacks that haven't seen ANY of them face to face or seen what they have done personally claim to be experts....

To 'smoothy, uber member' You're the one who labelled them 'lazy and stupid' so I'm not sure as to why you think I'm the racist as you're the one who grouped them as one. People are people, it doesn't matter where you are from

To 'smoothy, uber member' You're the one who labelled them 'lazy and stupid' so I'm not sure as to why you think I'm the racist as you're the one who grouped them as one. People are people, it doesn't matter where you are from

I am a legal European Resident and have been for 28 years... though I do spend most of my time in the USA.

I have property and family there and have seen EVERYTHING I claim over that time...

Its easy for you to make those claims living in Podunk or wherever. Anyone that doesn't live where they are.

I also narrowly escaped with my life on 9/11. I earned the right to say what I have. And I have the DIRECT experience behind what I say.

I have family at risk by these undesireables... in fact my mother-in-law AND both my sister-in-laws have been robbed by these people who do not belong there in the last year.

They have never in their lives been robbed by citizens of their own country or anyone else before the muslim invasion the last several years from the south and the east.

The crime rate has skyrocketed since they came and its only getting worse.

Firstly you have the right to say what you want regardless of 9/11. Secondly if the refugesss coming over are of mixed religious back grounds, why label the 'Muslim invasion' there are over 1 and a half billion Muslims in the world. Sounds like labelling again.

Firstly you have the right to say what you want regardless of 9/11. Secondly if the refugesss coming over are of mixed religious back grounds, why label the 'Muslim invasion' there are over 1 and a half billion Muslims in the world. Sounds like labelling again.

They came from Muslim Majority countries... and its no secret... no other religion is allowed to thrive in a Muslim majority nation...

When 99% of a countries Religious community is Muslim... then its fair and proper to consider all of them Muslim.

And Albanians ( mostly Caucasian) do not look like the Syrians, Algerians, Tunisians, or Libyans (who are mostly ethnically the same Mostly Arab) So there is no doubt which group it wasn't since NONE of them look like the native population of Italy. And yes I have seen them myself up close and personal. Its not mistaken Identity.

Funny..are you Muslim? Do YOU want to live under Sharia? DO you know that's what they demand anywhere they develop a large enough majority....even in the USA.

Are you as quick to defend Jews or Christians? You don't have a post count that establishes where you stand on those points.

You are still judging a people on there religious background. Despite there being over 400,000 Christians living in Sirea. I know it's difficult to except you're a racist but you should read back at your narrow views.

You are still judging a people on there religious background. Despite there being over 400,000 Christians living in Sirea. I know it's difficult to except you're a racist but you should read back at your narrow views.

Racists are the ones that are so fond of brandishing it around so freely. Perhaps YOU need to look in the mirror at the true racist.

Have you ever lived or worked outside of your home country... and not as part of the Military.

And incidentally... Chistians don't kiss the ground on prayer rugs. Its pretty obvious from that alone who is what religion.

Christians would be in a Church... and they are strangely devoid in any of them. Since between us and my inlaws we attend three different ones regularly... adding in my friends there... that jumps a lot higher and branches into multiple cities. They haven't seen them there either.

I don't know why you keep saying I am racist. I am saying you are due to your consistent and negative comments about muslims and refugees. Why do you think I am rasicst?

Because the US is so Christian it is so patriarchal
Misspurple, I live here, and I can tell you, its NOT how you are saying, here I see more people being atheist. And talk about Patriarchal? I come from that background, not bcos I am Christian but bcos of my original native country culture. I know how it is to be in patriarchal society, and its nothing like here in the US. I am so grateful to be here for that reason, trust me. Lol. I know every country and society has their own problems and goodness.
For the gun laws you blame US not the person who misuse this freedom of protecting themselves? No wonder, You blame God and His word for every bad thing going on this world, rather then blaming on the individual who take the word out of context or without whole understanding, twist it and manipulate it and use it as excuse for their own evil deeds.

In the US a lot of children are being raised with the idea that they should save themselves for marriage
I don't know where did you hear all this. Ask any person US person here, they will give you true fact. I think most of the Christian people do that and only few non Christian would do that.

According to the Bible women should be obedient. So unconsciously these angry misogynists, feel that they are being wronged, for not having sex with an obedient girlfriend, that they are raised to believe would adore them.
I am a Christian Women, a women who is Christian and also Married, I never experience the things what you are accusing the bible for. I don't deny that there will be man women who would have that experience, but it doesn't have to be Christian, it can be any religion, muslim, hindu, Buddhism, etc etc, and also atheist people can be like that. I think What you have experienced in your own life and your own family! You are trying to assume that every people around behaves and does like that. NO misspurple, as you had diff experience then me like wise in those matters every one has their own experience, you cant generalize every other person to be like that.

Misogynists book? I don't want to do this but I also cant keep quite bcos Its been too many times read your post about this hatred You blamed Abraham and His God! GO to Genesis there is a story where Abraham out of fear tells the king that Sarah is his sister, bcos Sarah was so beautiful that he feared if he revealed that she is his wife, the king will kill him , inorder to get the sarah. But see how beautiful the "Abrahamic God is" He goes by himself and talk to that king in his dream that, don't even try to touch my Sarah, She is the wife of the Abraham not her sis, give her back to Abraham. The king out of fear, not only return Sarah but also give Abraham gifts etc etc. The point here to notice is. Why god himself intervene? Bcos Abraham can have baby with any one he wants, for eg- Hagar>Ishamail. But You know why, God is not God of patriarchal, He made both man and women in his own image. For God Sarah was as important as Abraham. HER flesh and seed was as important as Abraham. She was as equal as Abraham. Even though Hagar gave Sarah and Abraham a baby but when Sarah had ISAAC her own blood baby, then notice what heppend, Sarah ruled over Abraham decision and told him to let the Hagar and her baby go away. Abraham was hurt and sobbing. Because it was His Child anyway. But You know What 'God of Bible' said? He said to Abraham, Abraham! Listen to your wife Sarah what she says and to respect her decision, he is going to take care of hagar and her son, don't worry. Its Basically- 'Do what Sarah says. This is not just one example but so many examples are there. I don't want to type so much lol. What I said is not a preaching, I was myself in pain and asked God to answer me the truth and He revealed me His ''TRue nature'', not form anywhere else but from His own Book, ''Bible''. So, In order for us to know the truth we have to ourselfef go and seek and read it and not depending on some YouTube vedio to dictate our thoughts. I know you don't believe in bible, but how funny still how you proclaim about it in a bad sense as if you know it all and read it everyday! And I am saying this in Love, the very reason you say it because you don't read it. If you have read it in a way( ''.. anyone have ears let them hear.. ") then you have understood is. My firend, sometimes its more then what it appears.
Its just like this, how you are feeling right now in your Life, AS you are seeing people saying bad things about refugees and its also impacting whoever hearing this. But you have totally diff. personal experience with the REFUGEE friends near you. Peace.

There is some disturbing raciest statements that I have read during this post. Calling refugees 'lazy, stupid and cowedly' because these people are fleeing genocide and forced migration. I'm sure the people who have made these statements are to ignorant to even acknowledge that they are raciest which is why it is hard to change someone's mind.

Thank you. You are totally right. I have trouble accepting that people can really believe those disturbing racist things, because they sound completely insane to me, but I should learn to accept that there are racists out there, that are even so deluded that they don't even realise that they are racist. If you try to reason with them, nothing good comes out of it, as you could also clearly notice on this thread. It really breaks my heart to see all this hate, but it seems as if there is really nothing that I can do about it.

I don't know why you keep saying I am racist. I am saying you are due to your consistent and negative comments about muslims and refugees. Why do you think I am rasicst?

Look in the mirror.. YOU are the racist because you have this fixation that everyone who does not agree with you is one. Fact the music. Muslims DESERVE it. What have they done to help humanity in the last 1,600 years?

NOTHING is the answer... what aid have they contributed to non-muslims... NOTHING. That's because its against their religion to help non-muslims.

Maybe YOU are a muslim... so are you? YOU seem to have the strange love affair with the Religion of oppression and terrorism.

And you never answers my other question... exactly WHAT experience do you have with ANY of these illegals... and none of them are refugees. IF the stopped at the first or second NEIGHBORING country... so they could return they might be... because they insu=ist on traveling half way across the planet to get free handouts and welfare. That makes them economic opportunists.

If you have ever been out of your home town... maybe you would grasp this.

So mister illegal advocate... exactly or roughly what total numbers have been invading Europe per week... per month per year, How about starting since Obama facilitated killing Kaddafi? ANy idea how many have been invading Italy... a country the size of Pennsyvania in size.

Take a wild guess how many per week average... I know the numbers... do you? And these are every week for the last how many years.. And I'm talking just the ones they KNOW of to make it easy.

Thank you. You are totally right. I have trouble accepting that people can really believe those disturbing racist things, because they sound completely insane to me, but I should learn to accept that there are racists out there, that are even so deluded that they don't even realise that they are racist. If you try to reason with them, nothing good comes out of it, as you could also clearly notice on this thread. It really breaks my heart to see all this hate, but it seems as if there is really nothing that I can do about it.

Are you really that stupid? I am trying really hard NOT to believe that. Then you dream more stuff up. In Italy ALONE there are over 5,000 per week flooding in... they have been flooding in since Kadaffi was killed years ago. DO the math. YOu are capable of doing math aren't you? There were higher weeks..and the erwere lower weeks and the actual average is a bit higher but since the numbers are so high...I'm fine rounding it down to that. There are a lot they don't know of so can't count and some night pass through but those nearly balance out.

IN fact round it DOWN to 5.000 per week. He was killed just shy of 4 years ago, and it started almost immediately. There are 52 weeks a year... 4 years makes that 208 weeks. Taking a low average of 5,000 per week and these are those they know of... for ONE country... that equals 1,040,000 Illegals JUST in Italy, and they for the most part Aren't passing through..

My numbers are from Italian government estimates. Or are you more of an authority than the Italian Dept of Justice? I got them from people who work in it directly. People that I talk with every week.

Italy has roughly 55 million Citizens. 1,040,000 Illegals is a significant percentage... and that JUST for Italy. Tht does not account for all the rest elsewhere.

Since Italy has roughly 55 million citizens.....with 1,040,000 known illegals that's a SIGNIFICANT percentage. Particuly for someone who has been so indignant about Europeans going to the American Continent...but sorry...you excuse the Spanish and what they did in you parents native country and in fact 2/3 of the American Continent, and what the French did in Canada.....you only care about what the English did to the Current USA.

Doesn't fit your propaganda you are being fed far from any of these places. Does it?

We aren't talking hundreds..we aren't even talking thousands....but MILLIONS over the last 4 years alone over Europe in its entirety.

If even 1% are radicalized Muslims....which is less than statistical averages for that group...YOU are in for a rough future....but don't come running here....you made your beds...sleep in them now.

Misspurple, I live here, and I can tell you, its NOT how you are saying, here I see more people being atheist. And talk about Patriarchal? I come from that background, not bcos I am Christian but bcos of my original native country culture. I know how it is to be in patriarchal society, and its nothing like here in the US. I am so grateful to be here for that reason, trust me. Lol. I know every country and society has their own problems and goodness.
For the gun laws you blame US not the person who misuse this freedom of protecting themselves? No wonder, You blame God and His word for every bad thing going on this world, rather then blaming on the individual who take the word out of context or without whole understanding, twist it and manipulate it and use it as excuse for their own evil deeds.

I don't know where did you hear all this. Ask any person US person here, they will give you true fact. I think most of the Christian people do that and only few non Christian would do that.

I am a Christian Women, a women who is Christian and also Married, I never experience the things what you are accusing the bible for. I don't deny that there will be man women who would have that experience, but it doesn't have to be Christian, it can be any religion, muslim, hindu, Buddhism, etc etc, and also atheist people can be like that. I think What you have experienced in your own life and your own family! You are trying to assume that every people around behaves and does like that. NO misspurple, as you had diff experience then me like wise in those matters every one has their own experience, you cant generalize every other person to be like that.

Misogynists book? I don't want to do this but I also cant keep quite bcos Its been too many times read your post about this hatred You blamed Abraham and His God! GO to Genesis there is a story where Abraham out of fear tells the king that Sarah is his sister, bcos Sarah was so beautiful that he feared if he revealed that she is his wife, the king will kill him , inorder to get the sarah. But see how beautiful the "Abrahamic God is" He goes by himself and talk to that king in his dream that, don't even try to touch my Sarah, She is the wife of the Abraham not her sis, give her back to Abraham. The king out of fear, not only return Sarah but also give Abraham gifts etc etc. The point here to notice is. Why god himself intervene? Bcos Abraham can have baby with any one he wants, for eg- Hagar>Ishamail. But You know why, God is not God of patriarchal, He made both man and women in his own image. For God Sarah was as important as Abraham. HER flesh and seed was as important as Abraham. She was as equal as Abraham. Even though Hagar gave Sarah and Abraham a baby but when Sarah had ISAAC her own blood baby, then notice what heppend, Sarah ruled over Abraham decision and told him to let the Hagar and her baby go away. Abraham was hurt and sobbing. Because it was His Child anyway. But You know What 'God of Bible' said? He said to Abraham, Abraham! Listen to your wife Sarah what she says and to respect her decision, he is going to take care of hagar and her son, don't worry. Its Basically- 'Do what Sarah says. This is not just one example but so many examples are there. I don't want to type so much lol. What I said is not a preaching, I was myself in pain and asked God to answer me the truth and He revealed me His ''TRue nature'', not form anywhere else but from His own Book, ''Bible''. So, In order for us to know the truth we have to ourselfef go and seek and read it and not depending on some YouTube vedio to dictate our thoughts. I know you don't believe in bible, but how funny still how you proclaim about it in a bad sense as if you know it all and read it everyday! And I am saying this in Love, the very reason you say it because you don't read it. If you have read it in a way( ''.. anyone have ears let them hear.. ") then you have understood is. My firend, sometimes its more then what it appears.
Its just like this, how you are feeling right now in your Life, AS you are seeing people saying bad things about refugees and its also impacting whoever hearing this. But you have totally diff. personal experience with the REFUGEE friends near you. Peace.

I don't blame God for anything, because he doesn't exist. I believe that the Talmud, Bible and Koran were written by misogynistic homophobic men, because among other things, this is what is written in all of these books (I got it from a letter to dr. Laura):

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

So that has nothing to do with my personal experiences.

Have you never heard about purity balls? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purity_ball There are a lot of American girls promising their fathers to save themselves there, I read a lot of articles about it and saw documentaries on television. I don't know where from the US you live, but from what I understood, most of these things take place in the South.

I already made up my mind, when I saw the YouTube video, Stephen Fry is just more eloquent than I am. He coincidentally has the same thoughts as me. I saw my father dying of cacere in 201, 2012 and 2013 he had Multiple Myeloma. I saw how horrible that disease was and I realised that little children die of leukemia and that the so called benevolent omnipotent God allowed that. So I couldn't believe anymore that he was both. There has never been any scientific proof presented that Gid exists, so all of that led me to conclude that there is no God, but if he would exist, I do not like him.

You are not the first theist that is trying to win me back, and you won't succeed either. So lets agree to disagree all right? It took me years to reach this conclusion.

The big difference between an opinion about God and an opinion about refugees is the impact. People can hurt other people. We can't hurt God. I don't believe that he exists, but even if he would exist, we can't rob, rape or murder God, as some people are doing with refugees right now, because they see them as less than human.

Back to the refugee problem -- how can we separate the real refugees who really need help and food and shelter from the opportunists who are posing as refugees?

Here's another question: who keeps giving negative ratings in a thread designed to not allow ratings??

Here's another question: who keeps giving negative ratings in a thread designed to not allow ratings??

Depending on what skin you have... you can see who gave it to you.

Back to the refugee problem -- how can we separate the real refugees who really need help and food and shelter from the opportunists who are posing as refugees?

I think that that is really hard. How can you prove that someone has been living in Turkey for years? So that is why Europe should come with an European solution. It is not fair to expect Italy and Greece to take most of the refugees, because most arrive there, but it is not fair to let all of them come to The Netherlands, the UK and Germany, because they think that life is better here. The refugees should be equally divided over all of Europe, including the Eastern Europe countries, that aren't willing to accept them at this moment.

Back to the refugee problem -- how can we separate the real refugees who really need help and food and shelter from the opportunists who are posing as refugees?

What has always worked... you set up refugee camps in neighboring countries and provide aid to those countries to help offset costs for them. Actual refugees will be eager to return home as soon as they can... the rest really aren't refugees.

Here's another question: who keeps giving negative ratings in a thread designed to not allow ratings??

I just got one from Smoothy, so probably you too! He just can't stand people disagreeing with him or calling him racist. If you change your skin to original, you can see who gave you an reputation. I gave you a good one:-D!

I just got one from Smoothy, so probably you too! He just can't stand people disagreeing with him or calling him racist. If you change your skin to original, you can see who gave you an reputation. I gave you a good one:-D!

THat was in response to one you gave me first... so don't play Miss innocent... or I'll post it.

What has always worked... you set up refugee camps in neighboring countries and provide aid to those countries to help offset costs for them. Actual refugees will be eager to return home as soon as they can... the rest really aren't refugees.
So let's shelter them for now and meanwhile bomb the heck out of the bad guys, kill 'em all,, then let the refugees return to rebuild (with other nations' physical and financial help?).

So let's shelter them for now and meanwhile bomb the heck out of the bad guys, kill 'em all,, then let the refugees return to rebuild (with other nations' physical and financial help?).

I'm all for sheltering them in THAT region... not Europe where you really can't live in a tent most of the year. True much of Europe's winters are mild compared to Chicago (lets be honest, Chicago has some brutal winters)...but they are far more brutal than their own region.

Most of Italy would be brutal in the winter in a tent. The rest of it would be brutal in the Summer in a tent. Anything north of Italy would be horrific in the winter in a tent. The Middle east doesn't have the Oppressive Humidity of southern Italy which does rival the Gulf region of South East USA

I gave you a good one:-D!
All reputation on this particular board is colorless and shows negative on vGo. The admins were supposed to fix that, but haven't yet.


I'm all for sheltering them in THAT region... not Europe where you really can't live in a tent most of the year.
But the real refugees have to go somewhere safe meanwhile to get away from the bombing.


THat was in response to one you gave me first... so don't play Miss innocent... or I'll post it.
Stop throwing colorless rocks at each other! I love you both.

Okay, I have been reporting Smoothy, because he says hatefull things, is that what you mean? Or do you mean a bad reputation? I just received one from Smoothy, so I gave it back. I am surprised that is okay to call refugees animals here or all Muslims terrorists, so I reported those statements of him, to see if their would be an admin that would do something about his hatespeech.

I don't understand the color part, but NeedKarma, Wondergirl, Precious7, Palmer Edrich and Talaniman, I have given all of you good reputations!

Okay, I have been reporting Smoothy, because he says hatefull things, is that what you mean? Or do you mean a bad reputation? I just received one from Smoothy, so I gave it back. I am surprised that is okay to call refugees animals here or all Muslims terrorists, so I reported those statements of him, to see if their would be an admin that would do something about his hatespeech.

I don't understand the color part, but NeedKarma, Wondergirl, Precious7, Palmer Edrich and Talaniman, I have given all of you good reputations!

Well now.. I shall NOW be reporting you. I haven't before now. Because in this forum...you don't have the right to expect people to be nice to you...especially when you make slurs about their person, their religion and their country. But since you aren't mature enough to take what you have been dishing out to me I'm going to do it now too. With all your rants in this thread against me, Christians and Americans in general YOU can't hide or recant it..

Perhaps it's time to close this thread

Here's another question: who keeps giving negative ratings in a thread designed to not allow ratings??
On the Original skin which most of us are on, we can give greenies (good reputation points) to anyone on any board. Unfortunately, on the vGo skin which you are on, those show up as reddies (negatives) -- and on Original as gray squares. This glitch was supposed to be fixed, but hasn't been (obviously!).

On the Original skin which most of us are on, we can give greenies (good reputation points) to anyone on any board. Unfortunately, on the vGo skin which you are on, those show up as reddies (negatives) -- and on Original as gray squares. This glitch was supposed to be fixed, but hasn't been (obviously!).

But what are the ratings NeedKarma is talking about? The reports or the reputations? Because Smoothy says that I started first, but I only gave him a bad reputation after he gave me one. Do you get a notifiction if someone reports you? How long does it takes the admid to process a report?

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