don't tell me there isn't employment for these people somewhere when you have millions of illegal immigrants
Those immigrants are willing to do the crummy low-paying jobs that both white and black citizens refuse to do. Now what?

Yes that system of capitalistic low wages doesn't work for half the population does it? Some inversion is necessary where those crummy jobs need to be higher paid and the fat cat executives need to get less for sitting on their duffs. I know some one will yell communist but in that society everyone worked, no time for protests and riots. You need to get rid of this glass half full attitude the glass is not half full it actually has little in it but much froth giving the illusion of volume. 10% of your population own the place and have the wealth another 40% might be capable of saying they are employed but then what do the rest do?

I was in a for-profit health-care rehab last year -- very understaffed, one nurse and one CNA for every 15 patients, many of whom needed two people to transfer them to a wheelchair, a toilet, and help them bathe, exercise, etc. It took 20-45 minutes for call lights to be answered. The staff was stressed and very tired by the end of the shift. On weekends the ratio was too often 2:25. On the Alzheimer's floor, the ratio was even greater (yet those patients needed even more hands-on care).

Only so many patients on Medicaid are allowed in at one time. The majority are private insurance + Medicare or private pay. The daily cost is $275 and up. I see a need for more nurses and CNAs. Also, more facilities like this are being built in this area. That means more housekeepers and kitchen help as well as medical staff. And our population is aging with people living longer, thanks to medical science, than ever before. I think the problem here is in my first sentence -- "for-profit." So what's the solution for the understaffing?

Medical systems in a number of places need overhaul. I was in a private hospital myself last week. Many of the patients were elderly having major surjery. I couldn't say the care was more than adequate and the food appalling. We were eating the same food as the age care facility next door.The system worked because of compenent staff with many years experience; I doubt there was a nurse under forty but no use complaining as an alternative with long waiting lists is what you get under subsidised medicine. It seems we focus on treating the symptom and not the cause since it is easier. I cannot imagine what it is like for patients with serious age related conditions requiring long term care a week was enough for me.

But that facility was probably being billed at $500 a day, I havn't seen the surgeon's bill yet but I expect a co-pay of $2,000. Now if I had gone to a training hospital I might have got out without cost. Couldn't do that as the surjery was overdue.

The system needs to have greater emphasis on prevention with the youger people actively encouraged to take better care of themselves throughout life. How you do this at the poorer end is difficult and a matter of education so more emphasis on life skills and less on academic pursuits that don't carry through for many people.

Where I come from the system is geared to spitting out university entrance candidates and the kids are stuck in the system, no early leavers so if you reach the end without a place you are still in a system of work or continuing education but none of it is life skills. Standing around on street corners is not an option here but it doesn't stop people dropping between the cracks

no one has mentioned the underlying causes, hopelessness and poverty and a deeply entrenched racism.

or in Baltimore's case ,over 50 years of Democrat rule . How do the Democrats account for the $ billions spent on anti-poverty programs throughout the nation ? They can't ;so they rely on their intentions being good.

What perception can you have when six cops are charged with murder. It is reported they had no probable cause for the arrest. I think the perception is clear. Sure there are social problems that underly mob violence but don't tell me there isn't employment for these people somewhere when you have millions of illegal immigrants. This weakened spirit argument suggests a slave will always be a slave. Perhaps you are right an oppressed people in another place would have taken up arms


Charging the cops with murder only shows that there may be a political bias to quell the violence that is taking place on the streets and conveniently fit the narrative.

Slaves will be slaves as long as they are held down and held in place. The democratic party with their social engineering has done more harm then good in moving people from poverty to productive citizens. The community itself also needs to take the blame and buying into the free life by way of subjugation.

They can be employed if they wish to but they also need a change in attitude for that change to happen. The welfare crowd needs to be taken off of services to a point that it provides only survival and not luxury.

State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby's husband is a member of the city council .His district is where the rioting took place. She also has political and personal relations with Billy Murphy ,the attorney representing Freddie Gray . He contributed $4,000 to her campaign. He also has been her mentor . For these reasons she has a conflict of interest in the case and should've recused herself .

I was in a for-profit health-care rehab last year -- very understaffed, one nurse and one CNA for every 15 patients, many of whom needed two people to transfer them to a wheelchair, a toilet, and help them bathe, exercise, etc. It took 20-45 minutes for call lights to be answered. The staff was stressed and very tired by the end of the shift. On weekends the ratio was too often 2:25. On the Alzheimer's floor, the ratio was even greater (yet those patients needed even more hands-on care).

Only so many patients on Medicaid are allowed in at one time. The majority are private insurance + Medicare or private pay. The daily cost is $275 and up. I see a need for more nurses and CNAs. Also, more facilities like this are being built in this area. That means more housekeepers and kitchen help as well as medical staff. And our population is aging with people living longer, thanks to medical science, than ever before. I think the problem here is in my first sentence -- "for-profit." So what's the solution for the understaffing?

Don't get me started!

No, no, the problem isn't only in the "for profit" facilities. I currently have 9 nurses who work 3 areas (labor & delivery, nursery and postpartum) who are expected to work 2 shifts (7am - 7pm and 7 PM - 7 am) seven days a week. I work in a not for profit facility.

It all began with the inauguration of the current administration. Thanks to Nobama, I am 50 years old, raising a 13 year old, and working 58 - 72 hours a week, where before this administration I was comfortably working 36 hour work weeks.

or in Baltimore's case ,over 50 years of Democrat rule . How do the Democrats account for the $ billions spent on anti-poverty programs throughout the nation ? They can't ;so they rely on their intentions being good.

Yes apparently this neighbourhood has been part of an urban renewal program but it is also part of the rustbelt, you can't live on past glories or bring back your industries fron China but I doubt these people would work the way the chinese work, they have been educated to expect something different

Fifty years ago, Lyndon Johnson said “We seek … not just equality as a right and a theory but equality as a fact and equality as a result.”
In pursuit of equality of result there began one of the most massive transfers of wealth in all history. Trillions of tax dollars were plunged into programs of social uplift and education reform . The results in black America? ........
The illegitimacy rate was 23 percent in 1965, it is 72 percent now, and the gap between black and white test scores endures. In the black community, the dropout rate, crime rate, are now far higher now than in 1965.
Their work ethic has been eviscerated by an endless flow of social welfare benefits. Those benefits have often removed the incentive to find or hold a job, and the necessity to have a father in the home.

Yes Tom we can agree social engineering is a bust whether it is a nazi or communist utopia or the home grown version, We have all paid the price for your social engineering because of your conscience. Johnson also tried to reengineer south east asia so I think we can definitatively say his policies failed. Look I know it is hard to lift a down trodden group out of poverty and relocation, voluntary, of course, seems to be an answer. Some groups in the world have seized the initiative, millions are on the move but you don't have either push factors over there just pull factors, someone thinks what your minorities have is better than what they have even if it is only opportunity and lack of war

meanwhile here in NY ,we have had our 5th cop shot in 5 months ..
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/03/nyregion/police-officer-is-shot-in-queens.html

and 3 police officers were hurt during a riot by May Day thugs in Seattle .
May Day: Clashes erupt in Seattle; 3 officers injured - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/02/us/seattle-police-injured/)

Tom you know as well as I do you reap what you sow, now there might be a disconnect some reaping what others have sown and we also know the thugs will get theirs eventually. Perhaps you need a different model in the criminal justice system where these minorities are concerned, one we find helpful is to have community elders and leaders assist in the sentencing and even the charging processes. It has been shown to have positive results. But then I guess your process is sacrosanct being enshrined as it is in a historical document, but you could extend the definition of peers a little

as an observation NYC has been a violent place for a very long time so if you have kept the body count down to one a month maybe you are achieving something. How many cops are there in NYC, thousands? I know the cops being killed is deplorable and it makes them nervious. As to police being hurt in riots, i think you will find the count in Baltimore and other places higher and it is because they are deliberately targetted. A community that does that is inviting heavy handed tactics. Not blaming just saying there is frustration on both sides. Baltimore you have hundreds of youth go wild no doubt led by aggitators but someone gave them an excuse, a sense of unjustice

Tom you know as well as I do you reap what you sow, now there might be a disconnect some reaping what others have sown and we also know the thugs will get theirs eventually. Perhaps you need a different model in the criminal justice system where these minorities are concerned, one we find helpful is to have community elders and leaders assist in the sentencing and even the charging processes. It has been shown to have positive results. But then I guess your process is sacrosanct being enshrined as it is in a historical document, but you could extend the definition of peers a little


We do have a process just as you describe. It is called the Grand Jury system. It is in place to allow the citizenry to participate in the legal syatem.

Quote from Wiki:
A grand jury in the United States is usually composed of 12 to 23 citizens, though in Virginia it is composed of lesser numbers for regular or special grand juries. In Ireland (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ireland), they also functioned as local government authorities. In Japan the Law of July 12, 1948 created the Kensatsu Shinsakai (Prosecutorial Review Commission, or PRC, system), much like a grand jury. A grand jury is so named because traditionally it has a greater number of jurors than a trial jury, called a petit jury (from the French word petit meaning "small").[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_jury#cite_note-Harris_1896-4)



Grand jury - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_jury)

No Tom not the same process I suggest. How many of your Grand Jury would be drawn from the community in which the offence occurred and how many would actually be a peer group of the accused. I know the wording says peers but difficult to accomplish after so many years of intermingling. The Grand Jury is no doubt a process of sifting due process where as I'm speaking of a process which brings certain cultural nuiances to bear and it is powerful because the evidence is reviewed by community leaders and so there can be certain community pressure which is extra judicial as in, the community may be aware of both good and bad factors associated with the accused. This process sometimes results in a more severe sentence. You would probably consider this a deniel of individual rights but it actually results in less custodial sentences and more rehibitation in lesser cases. It is only used in the case of first nation minorities

Hello:

Mosby for president!

excon

Hello again,

I dunno bout you, but accusing the prosecutor of rushing to judgment, BY rushing to judgment himself is self defeating, and really quite stupid.

FOP calls on prosecutor to recuse herself, defends officers - Baltimore Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-riots/bs-md-fop-letter-20150501-story.html)

excon

as an observation NYC has been a violent place for a very long time so if you have kept the body count down to one a month maybe you are achieving something not true . NYC was one of the safest cities in the country ...at least it was. Now we have the Sandinista mayor; so things are going back to the bad old days of the 1970s .

Hello again,

I dunno bout you, but accusing the prosecutor of rushing to judgment, BY rushing to judgment himself is self defeating, and really quite stupid.

FOP calls on prosecutor to recuse herself, defends officers - Baltimore Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-riots/bs-md-fop-letter-20150501-story.html)

excon


Welcome back ????

Hello ex

Hello guys:

S'up?

ex

Where were you? I remember you saying goodbye but not why.

In the last month there have been 31 homicides in the city of Baltimore . None by cops. Where are the civil rights leaders organizing protests against this ?
Baltimore Homicides - baltimoresun.com (http://data.baltimoresun.com/bing-maps/homicides/)

Actually Tom they may be a bit busy protesting the homicides by the cops

Community protests as Baltimore killer cops go free | Workers World (http://www.workers.org/articles/2013/01/28/community-protests-as-baltimore-killer-cops-go-free/)


The death toll for people who have died at the hands of the BPD over the last 13 months stands at 16 — more than a person a month!

And the lawsuits,

https://medium.com/the-baltimore-sun/brutality-lawsuits-continue-in-baltimore-site-of-freddie-gray-death-a303c4df4445

Sounds as though Baltimore is a dangerous place and the cops may be justified in taking a hard line with criminals but they should be protecting those who are not criminals and surely it is possible to tell the difference

surely it is possible to tell the difference
That's the problem -- it's not.

Some cops don't care there is a difference.

Yes it is difficult to get past the idea criminals have black skin

this criminal ran from them ;had a prior arrest record that read like a novel . When they finally subdued him they found an "illegal " knife on his possession . Now I don't agree that the knife should be illegal ...but the city of Baltimore has different ideas .

Anyway ;no ,this was not a case of white cops not knowing the difference between a criminal and an innocent 'black skin'. This was a case where 6 cops ,half of them African-American arrested a criminal who died while in their custody . You can keep on making the claim that this was a racial incident .But the facts tell a different story.

The issue was he DIED in police custody. He ran, but that's not illegal, except he was a black guy. I am not of the notion that cops can just stop, and search, detain a guy who has done NOTHING wrong. The 2 cops were white, and the rest were summoned later.

The notion that a cop should be given such a wide latitude to deal with a segment of the population with no accountability is utterly ridiculous given the history of abuse, and bad behavior, and fatal outcomes visited on a population of the people they are supposed to serve.

Such systemic institutional oppression is unacceptable except to the narrowest of minds.

Anyone who has ever watched the reality TV show COPS... has seen arrested suspects beating their heads on anything available inside or outside the vehicle to claim they were abused.

No proof has emerged this was not the case here... in fact there is evidence and a witness indicating it was the case.

Now Tal I agree with you police have to be accountable. Breaking some guys back in a van whether misadventure, negligence or violence is just not on. Long ago we had an inquiry here as to why black men were dying in police custody, the death rate changed after that because the police came to know they would be accountable. Sometimes you just have to start again

The issue was he DIED in police custody. He ran, but that's not illegal, except he was a black guy. I am not of the notion that cops can just stop, and search, detain a guy who has done NOTHING wrong. The 2 cops were white, and the rest were summoned later.

The notion that a cop should be given such a wide latitude to deal with a segment of the population with no accountability is utterly ridiculous given the history of abuse, and bad behavior, and fatal outcomes visited on a population of the people they are supposed to serve.

Such systemic institutional oppression is unacceptable except to the narrowest of minds.

When he ran ,he gave them probable cause to do a search . When they searched ,they found an 'illegal 'weapon. That ,and his priors gave them a legitimate reason to detain him. The only question is what happened in the van . As smoothy points out ; a witness in the police van told the story that he was throwing himself against the van walls and door ;and it is possible that he injured himself .

When he ran ,he gave them probable cause to do a search . When they searched ,they found an 'illegal 'weapon. That ,and his priors gave them a legitimate reason to detain him. The only question is what happened in the van . As smoothy points out ; a witness in the police van told the story that he was throwing himself against the van walls and door ;and it is possible that he injured himself .
Was he throwing himself against that wall, or was someone "helping" him? The other passenger was in the van only 5-6 mins during a half-hour van ride. And it's impossible to give oneself the injury he had by throwing oneself against a wall. In other words, there's far too much missing information.

Yes he may have fallen on a bend or a sudden stop and injured himself, he might have been causing a nuiance and was encouraged to cooperate. When he was put in the van he didn't look 100% anyway. Maybe he was high and acting out his rage and we will have to wait for a report to get some facts

Either way there is a lesson here in the digital age, cameras might also be needed in police vehicles to keep the perps under full time survellience, for their own safety, of course

Was he throwing himself against that wall, or was someone "helping" him? The other passenger was in the van only 5-6 mins during a half-hour van ride. And it's impossible to give oneself the injury he had by throwing oneself against a wall. In other words, there's far too much missing information.

I don't know and neither do you. If I was a juror I'd consider the self inflicted injury as plausible . The prosecutor will have to prove the cops gave him a beat down .

I don't know and neither do you. If I was a juror I'd consider the self inflicted injury as plausible . The prosecutor will have to prove the cops gave him a beat down .
Like I said, too much missing information. If I remember, it was said that, medically speaking, he could not have injured himself the way he did by throwing himself against a steel panel. The prisoner is dead, and the police may not be reliable in their testimonies. We may never know how the prisoner got his injuries.

Depending on the actual vans construction... the front of the van can not be accessed from the back or vice versa. For the safety of the cop driving that has his back to the suspects.

Depending on the actual vans construction... the front of the van can not be accessed from the back or vice versa. For the safety of the cop driving that has his back to the suspects.
But was there a policeman in with the prisoner who died? Did the van stop en route? To pick up the other prisoner? A stop before that? If so, why and what happened? A lot can happen during a half-hour ride.

Apparently. We are aware the van did stop enroute, probably to deal with the disturbance. There will be an enquiry, an inquest and facts will emerge. It is a shame there cannot be summary justice and a quick lynching but law must be given a chance sometime otherwise your police force would be quickly depleted and chaos ensue. The community needs to take some responsibility here also by not committing acts contrary to law and giving the police opportunity to enforce it

This was not the first incident of this nature with transporting a prisoner by the Baltimore police,

Freddie Gray not the first to come out of Baltimore police van with serious injuries - Baltimore Sun (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-gray-rough-rides-20150423-story.html#page=1)

Guess those other lawsuits didn't wake them up.

More padding needed then, restraints or seat belts and some driving instruction

How about prosecuting rogue cops who think they are above the law.

Head shots for fleeing suspects saves all the bickering...

How about prosecuting rogue cops who think they are above the law.

Don't you think you should deal with the systemic, endemic problem. Why do the cops think they are above the law? Why is there a perception that they act this way? There must be policy behind this somewhere. Perhaps it lies in local law enforcement where it is hard to be objective. The local political process is obviously failing because it fails to ensure accountability and it would seem this applies to more than the police force

Prosecuting the rogues is a GREAT start!!

Don't you think you should deal with the systemic, endemic problem. Why do the cops think they are above the law? Why is there a perception that they act this way? There must be policy behind this somewhere. Perhaps it lies in local law enforcement where it is hard to be objective. The local political process is obviously failing because it fails to ensure accountability and it would seem this applies to more than the police force

There is a far greater problem here than a handful of cops that might think they are above the law... its a big percentage of a certain ethnic minorities that feel they are.

Yes that can also be a problem where the communities enforce their own standard allowing undesirable behaviour

Cleveland policeman Brelo cleared over unarmed black deaths - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32859763)

With results like this it is no wonder the police think they can do whatever they like

meanwhile 12 dead and 43 wounded over the Holiday Weekend in Chi-town.
meanwhile 9 dead and 20 wounded over the Holiday Weekend in Baltimore .

In Melborne Fl a mob of thugs attacked a cop trying to arrest a punk ..... The Rio Rancho Police Dept lost it's first officer killed in duty in it's 34 year history to a shooting .Murders are up in Comrade deBlasio's NYC .You have a 45% chance increase to get murdered in Manhattan than previously when law and order Mayors ran the show.

Go ahead and keep chipping away at the thin blue line between order and anarchy

Well I hear Obama is going to take away their heavy weapons, more chipping away

But apparently it is

Cleveland police department agrees to carry out federal reforms - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32887033)

The Cleveland police department have been put on a short leash in what may become the model for other troubled police departments

But apparently it is

Cleveland police department agrees to carry out federal reforms - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-32887033)

The Cleveland police department have been put on a short leash in what may become the model for other troubled police departments


what a big surprise ! The emperor wants to nationalize policing in the country . He made that aim a goal long before these bogus pretexts began. In fact he proposed a "civilian security force " as a candidate for the Presidency.

what a big surprise ! The emperor wants to nationalize policing in the country . He made that aim a goal long before these bogus pretexts began. In fact he proposed a "civilian security force " as a candidate for the Presidency.
What's the National Guard?

That's a civilian military force, a militia, as distinct from a police force. Obama may see state police forces more relevant to policing that local police forces

Clete is correct . The national guard is military . But then again . His idea of a national internal security force sorta blurs the lines .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s

You already have the FBI and Homeland Security but perhaps you do need a coordinating force on the ground a sort of Carabinieri ROS

Carabinieri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carabinieri)

Guardsmen are valuable first responders during emergency weather disasters too.

Guard's role in disaster response defined more clearly | Article | The United States Army (http://www.army.mil/article/74990/)

http://www.ngaus.org/sites/default/files/Guard%20Statues.pdf

Yes the army is often used in such situations but you wouldn't want them to become cops would you?

Well this time they didn't shoot, but they might have
http://www.smh.com.au/world/mckinney-texas-police
man-pulls-gun-on-teens-at-pool-party-video-shows-20150608-ghirht.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/mckinney-texas-policeman-pulls-gun-on-teens-at-pool-party-video-shows-20150608-ghirht.html)

It just seems as though the police avoided the training day that dealt with race relations and instead went for an arrest the coloreds because they aren't allowed in this pool. If this is an example of how a trained martial artist handles himself you have to wonder, did he leave his serentity at home

The cop resigned. Maybe he escaped prosecution maybe not but it is an admission he did the wrong thing which is more than others have done

Between that and the Walmart video going around it's a tough time for the american "dream".

Yes short fuses everywhere, but everyone has to awake from their dreamtime

Another report of white on black violence this time no police involved

White gunman shoots dead nine people at black church in Charleston, South Carolina, police say - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-18/nine-killed-in-south-carolina-church-shooting-police-say/6556142)

A question comes to mind, how come we don't get many reports of black on white violence (riots excepted), does this not happen or is the news suppressed to avoid a white reaction?

What did an american woman get for standing up for freedom?

Bree Newsome removes Confederate flag in South Carolina, hailed a hero (http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/bree-newsome-hailed-a-hero-after-climbing-flagpole-and-removing-confederate-flag/story-fnixwvgh-1227418252814)

She lost hers

Maybe you should brush up on the civil rights movements in America Clete.

Yes maybe I should because our blacks seem to want some rights back, like the right to wander about, the right to sit down and do nothing and the right to every piece of land that someone hasn't stuck a building on, and then there is the right to be recognised in the constitution whatever that means. This is strange for a people who existed as 250 separate ethinic groups, didn't have a written constitution or even writing and still want to divide up the country

Is it so strange to want to be included in the process you yourself have implemented? Do you really not understand the concept of equality? Of course you don't since you expect minorities to be assimilated.

They are no less equal because their particular ethnic group is not named in the constitution in fact that is equality, they are no more equal than anyone else. Any provision which specifically singled them out was removed from the constitution long ago and they became human, not fauna. Of course I expect minorities to be assimilated, that is no special provision be made for them. When someone from a minority becomes a citizen no distinction is made, they will not be referred to by some minority tag as they might be in some other place. They are truly equal, perhaps it is you who needs the lesson in equality because I don't think the message has actually got through over there

That is my response to the recent outburst by the NRA which suggests Australia's gun laws have failed, well cop this for failure, the rate of death by gun in the US is 370 times that of Australia. I am pleased they are unable to deal death here in the way they can deal death in the US. This isn't about freedom or liberty, neither my liberty or my freedom is threatened and there is no immediate threat on my life from some dillusional kid acquiring a gun and shooting up a prayer meeting.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/your-gun-laws-are-a-mistake-national-rifle-association-to-australia-20150712-giaqal.html

Obama may once again have cited our success and angered the NRA, but the thing is our success is real. It doesn't mean gun violence doesn't happen here but it seems the criminals confine their activities to killing each other and shootouts with police are very rare. The contrast between our two societies with similar constitutional foundation couldn't be more obvious than in our gun laws which require that only responsible people are allowed to own guns and that they have a good reason for acquiring one.

One important aspect of this is that our police don't go in fear of being shot when on their ordinary appointed duties and therefore they can approach the public in a less confronting way gaining cooperation not animosity.

I suggest the NRA stays where it belongs and stop lobbying in Australia

They are no less equal because their particular ethnic group is not named in the constitution in fact that is equality, they are no more equal than anyone else. Any provision which specifically singled them out was removed from the constitution long ago and they became human, not fauna.

The left needs sub-group identity to justify their philosophy .
If they can't find victims to champion ,they make them up and their grevience .They thrive on fostering self pity in the group while they profess and encourge self rightious anger . They are largely succeeding .The protected victim groups are no longer in the minority of the population . Soon there won't be any group that isn't a victim except perhaps white conservative males.
Modern victimhood is a political status that is sought after because of the advantages it brings.

Blah blah blah fanatical echo chamber speak...

The left needs sub-group identity to justify their philosophy .
.

Where do you get this stuff or should I say guff. The left identifies with minorities because the right ignores them and even victimises them. The true victim in all of this is the silent majority because they are exploited with the sort of rhetoric you expound

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. "

Elmer T Peterson

When a government grants itself the power to bestow material benefits selectively on individuals and groups, people are going to seek to take advantage of that government and grievance industries will abound.The left thrives on that.

When a government grants itself the power to bestow material benefits selectively on individuals and groups, people are going to seek to take advantage of that government and grievance industries will abound.The left thrives on that.Nope, both your political parties do that - you are just too obtuse to see that. You have lost control of your government, no amount of hollering from the cheap seats on an internet forum will change that.

yep there are a bunch of RINO statists in the Repubics too . That's why I did not identify them by party affiliation .

Nope, they (US politicians) all are out to make a killing on the public treasury... and in private deals with special interest groups. Remember - the accumulation of wealth is the highest priority there, it trumps all else.

Yes but Tom doesn't identify that by party affiliation, he sits on the fence and casts aspirtions

I've made it clear I am not a Republican . This is not a fence sitting situation . They are closer to where I am at than the hopelessly progressive Democrats . But I still have major disagreements with their leadership on some important issues.

Republican leadership, can it be found in the land? The current string of candidates cannot be said to represent leadership although one may emerge from the ruck if enough money is spent

Do they? another black death after an incident involving a police officer

'I will light you up!': Texas officer threatened Sandra Bland with Taser during traffic stop (http://www.smh.com.au/world/i-will-light-you-up-texas-officer-threatened-sandra-bland-with-taser-during-traffic-stop-20150722-giihuv.html)

The culture of white on black violence continues

Do they? another black death after an incident involving a police officer

'I will light you up!': Texas officer threatened Sandra Bland with Taser during traffic stop (http://www.smh.com.au/world/i-will-light-you-up-texas-officer-threatened-sandra-bland-with-taser-during-traffic-stop-20150722-giihuv.html)

The culture of white on black violence continues


Do you think anyone black white or whatever color of the day should disobey direct orders from a police officer that appear to be normal in the course of a routine traffic stop? It just illistrates more of the media trying to push an agenda then it is anything that smacks of over stepping boundries.

They want to see a war internally in this country and they are pushing for it daily. It is truely sad.

The cops blew another one!

Do you think anyone black white or whatever color of the day should disobey direct orders from a police officer that appear to be normal in the course of a routine traffic stop? It just illistrates more of the media trying to push an agenda then it is anything that smacks of over stepping boundries.

They want to see a war internally in this country and they are pushing for it daily. It is truely sad.

Normal, is it normal for a police officer to be abusive, obnoxious, officious and just plain arrogant over a minor infringement where he was just filling his book. I find the whole procedure incrediable. Tal I saw the video and to me that cop was over the top, Not only that but the camera is there for a reason and he deliberately took the arrestee out of view of the camera. Is what happens when someone stands up for their rights in your country, He assaulted that woman in her car and then arrested her for an assault on him.

Maybe you do need another war of liberation, it appears the results of the first one have been forgotten

And why would she hang herself in jail? She had just landed a job she really wanted, and her sister was going to pay the $500 bail.

Deaths in custody can be inexplicable, some people can be very depressed by being placed in jail for more than a few hours. We have had a lot of experience here with people of colour dying in custody, but the reasons would be entirely different there where there is entrenched racism. As there were no cameras in her cell the whole thing is very suspect

She seemed angry, not depressed. Depression is anger turned inwards, but there was no reason to be angry at herself.

Looking at the stats it seems deaths in custody is an all too frequent occurrence

Normal, is it normal for a police officer to be abusive, obnoxious, officious and just plain arrogant over a minor infringement where he was just filling his book. I find the whole procedure incrediable. Tal I saw the video and to me that cop was over the top, Not only that but the camera is there for a reason and he deliberately took the arrestee out of view of the camera. Is what happens when someone stands up for their rights in your country, He assaulted that woman in her car and then arrested her for an assault on him.

Maybe you do need another war of liberation, it appears the results of the first one have been forgotten


It appears to me that the woman was out of line by refusing to put out her cigarette and then later refusing to get out of the car as she had been asked to do. All the while mouthing off to the officer.

Maybe where your at you can tell the cops how you want it handled but here you are expected to obey when asked to comply.

Even when the officer is full of crap?

Yasum, masta!

In this anti-cop environment ....my only critique of the cop is that he didn't call for backup .

In this anti-cop environment ....my only critique of the cop is that he didn't call for backup .
Because she didn't signal when changing lanes? How many times have you done that, even out of state, even with a cop nearby, and didn't get pulled over?

***Added*** Her big mistake was arguing with him.

yes her big mistake was arguing with him . He would NOT have asked her to get out of the car if she had been reasonable . And for the record ,I think the signal law should be enforced more often . I consider it a dangerous situation when drivers don't signal their intentions . I have had to brake hard more than once because of that .

I consider it a dangerous situation when drivers don't signal their intentions . I have had to brake hard more than once because of that .Well there's one driver one that won't be bothering you anymore.

In this anti-cop environment ....my only critique of the cop is that he didn't call for backup .

He apparently did call for backup while he was still next to her car. Unfortunately, if she had simply complied, whether she agreed or not, a ticket would likely have been the only outcome.

The debate now will be should she have been placed on suicide watch.

Well there's one driver one that won't be bothering you anymore.

Yes seems to be a trend

Yes seems to be a trend Going unreported is the number of road rage incidents that result from the lack of courtesy for other drivers ;like doing the simple ,basic things ;like signaling before changing lanes.

Yes seems to be a trend
It's a very violent society.

‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens - The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/article/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-36131)

Ordering her to put out her cigarette is a lawful police order?

Why should he be concerned, he was writing a ticket, unless she was blowing smoke up his nose. There is a lot of attitude in all of this and it would seem cops need more training

Ordering her to put out her cigarette is a lawful police order?



Retired Los Angeles Police Capt. Greg Meyer said Bland's behavior led to the result.
“Officers have complete discretion to control the movements of the violator, including making them get out the car,” he said.
Meyer said it is standard practice to have someone put out their cigarette.
“No one, including a police officer, wants to get a burning cigarette jammed into their face or eye; it’s basic procedure,” he said. “The officer asked politely if she would mind putting out her cigarette. The violator then raised her voice, actively resisted multiple lawful directions to get out of the car. The officer requested a backup officer to respond. The officer raised his voice several times in what turned out to be a futile effort to overcome that resistance.”
In hindsight, Meyer said, it may have been better to wait for backup. “The lady seemed committed to her resistance to lawful detention and arrest, so the presence of a backup unit might not have made much difference,” he said.
“This is yet another case of someone who chooses to illegally resist the directions of a police officer, thus escalating the situation, “ he said.

LA Times (http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-84053091/)

WATCH: Dashcam Video of Sandra Bland Traffic Stop Arrest | Heavy.com (http://heavy.com/news/2015/07/sandra-bland-traffic-stop-arrest-video-police-cop-brian-encinia-texas-waller-county-jail-cell-death-investigation-protests-charges/)

Texas trooper who arrested Sandra Bland violated police policies: investigators (http://www.rawstory.com/2015/07/texas-trooper-who-arrested-sandra-bland-violated-police-policies-investigators/)

7 important questions about the arrest, assault, and death of Sandra Bland (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/07/17/1403147/-7-important-questions-about-the-arrest-assault-and-death-of-Sandra-Bland#)

The officer is being investigated over this arrest. To suggest this officer was in fear of his safety over a freakin' cigarette since she was cooperative to that point is pretty lame. He rode up on her in the first place, stopped her and took her out of dash cam range where he conveniently started having problems.

She was charged with assaulting an officer, not disobeying a lawful order. That in itself is suspicious.

Perhaps he was looking for a little on the spot penalty. I think his behaviour indicates he is an offender and this time he got caught