So I live in VT and was placed on probation. One time I was given a violation of probation and my PO kept asking how I was going to plead to it every time I was in his office. I got uncomfortable at one point and told him that was my business, not his, and he yelled at me. I then started trying to come in and let him know I would be video recording. Since then a higher-up told me I couldn't do that like he did, then changed it to say "you can do that, but you have to give us a copy of it."

The following week I forgot my USB cord to transfer the file, which I still felt they had no right to demand, so I just decided to wait until the following week. That week I let him know I had the cable and was going to record, but hadn't turned on the camera yet. He told me to take a left so he could give me a UA. I hadn't been arrested yet, nor told I was arrested or being detained. As I took the left he grabbed my camera and handed it to another FSU officer. Said to him, "make sure that's off. Make sure that's off."

I'm getting really scared and don't know what to do. I want to keep recording him as he seems really out of control. There is even a seriously menacing looking twitch in his eye every time he seems angry I'm not doing as he pleases even in legal matters that are not his to mettle with or ask about.

Last time I went into his office (after over 2 weeks of having me sign report in forms instead of see him) he told me that he "called up north and they told me to have a local meetin' about it. So we had a local meetin' and they decided they don't want ya doin that anymore. With the video camera."

If video recording my interaction has nothing to do with my charges and no court has imposed anything against it, nothing is in my probation conditions that I've signed in regards to it, can he constitutionally keep me from recording what happens in my day as long as I've let him know I'm recording?

Thank you any and all who can shed light!

You will be going back to jail or prison, just be prepared, they will find and look for vioalations.

How you are going to plead is their buisnesss since they have to prepare the paper work for the judge. So you being a "problem" for them just makes their job harder.

I was surprised you were not violated again for not anwering him.

There is no civil right to record, and I doubt you have a right to video record inside their office. They do have legal right to search you, ( search your home) anytime they want to. ( they do not need a warant)

You had better learn to get on the program, of just pack up to go to jail

How I plan to plead to a charge against me in court is not his business FR. That is to do with myself and my attorney. He even went as far as to ask me what my attorney said and still wouldn't back down without an answer. That is not constitutionally sound. Freedom of press gives me the right to record anything as long as it doesn't make me an accomplice to a crime by doing it.

I had better learn to get on the program and not be able to have a private conversation with an attorney either I'll bet, huh? You've made no sense here Chuck. Whether it says "expert" next to your name or not.

Me being a person who stands up for his own rights is not "being a problem." You might not believe this, but my PO is one of the only officials who listened to an audio recording of what police claim to be my victim, was really my attacker. He's one of the only people who knows that I'm literally innocent of my crime. I brought an SD card with all kinds of evidence to that effect. How I am going to plead only becomes my PO's business when he is standing on the side of the prosecution and court has gone into session, not for months every time I went into his office.

Your probation officer is an officer of the court, and as such it is his business as you are assigned to him.

The problem here is you seem to think there are no repercussions for your actions... which is very, very wrong. You are going to be on the losing end of any shoving match you start. Because everything say and how you act... will be relayed to the DA and the court and it reflects badly upon you.

Incidentally... Fr_Chuck is ex law enforcement and knows quite well how these things work, but then, maybe you have to learn the hard way. He was only offereing you advice that will help you. They like the police are legally entitled to ask you anythign they want... some of it you have to answer, some of it you don't have to answer... and you also need to seriously read some laws. Are you a member of the press, do you actually have press credentials? Do you understand that a PO office is not public space, and the laws about recording without concent apply where there is no expectation to a right to privacy, which would be in the mall, maybe even in the parking lot, but not inside their office.

I agree with Fr_Chuck... you are begging for them to find any reason to put you in jail... and you might even end up giving them new reasons to do it.

Seriously dial back the attitude a few notches... calm down... and listen. You are only going to end up hurting yourself and your own case if you don't.

So Chuck is ex-law enforcement, and officials are supposed to be able to ask questions that you don't have to answer, then when you don't answer ask again until you do? All that points to is Chuck being the same kind of bully and not having a problem pressing people on matters that they shouldn't have to answer. He may as well be my PO himself.

You know, I happen to have a grievance form from a few years ago signed by myself and the head of probation and parole stating "there is nothing stopping you from recording your PO." It was stamped too. So you can tell me I need to calm down. I'm not angry at either of you. I just want answers that make sense. And "your PO has the right to know what you said to your attorney" (what it sounds like you're saying at first) doesn't make any.

It also makes I should have to tell anything about how I'm going to plead in court to my PO, or that you would state you can't believe I didn't get another violation for not (wanting to, but having eventually did anyway) tell my PO what my plans were for going to court. He had his suggestion of what court should do. I had what my attorney advised me to do. Where can you make a connection that takes the sense out of that enough to say you are surprised I'm not violated just for that. If you are surprised that my PO didn't abuse his power and violate me for 5th amendment rights, then I agree with you. A PO doesn't have to actually see you doing wrong or know about it to put you in jail. One just needs to spin a good enough story...

So... repercussions for what actions, might I ask? Being alive? Because I don't see anything wrong with letting my PO know that what I say to my attorney or how I proceed in my legal matters not being his business. I didn't realize there were repercussions for not telling my PO how I was going to plead. I brought in a recorder in the first place to show the posterity of my supervision. To show that I AM doing what I have to do. If you think that reflects badly upon me, it's because you assumed I'm another guilty convict who simply doesn't like having restrictions in life. That certainly isn't the case Mr. Smoothy. Anything I do in this matter won't be relayed to the court because my PO knows he is wrong or he wouldn't have "called up North." During the one video recorded meeting I have of him he repeatedly states he doesn't mind doing this if it will make me feel good about our working relationship and ability to proceed forward.

So I'm wondering if any of that changes what so far seems like narrow assumptions based on talking to those who were guilty in the first place. You don't have text messages and pictures, screenshots and video/audio recordings of someone admitting they hit you with a hammer, so that person not so much as getting a violation herself when hitting you with a hammer let alone a new charge, when she was on probation for hitting you in the first place and caught seeing you multiple times by her PO who did nothing about it and you were free at the time, would be equally out of your context in this conversation. I'm not some damned kid not wanting to accept what he has done. Learn that and you might just make an impact on this conversation.

A PO has a lot of leeway in what they do... they can violate you on any little thing, or they might let it slide if it appears to be an honest mistake.

Its your PO's office... he can refuse to allow a visit to take place as long as you are recording, and it goes down as a missed visit... who do you think is going to win that one. There IS an expectation of privacy inside an office and your "right to record anyone anywhere" isn't unlimited, try taking a camera and a recording device into a courtroom sometime.

But do it your way... I can guarantee you its going to end badly for you.

THey have a lot of power... and you don't... and you insist on poking them making them prove what they CAN do... and how little you can do about it. They have that power, backed by the law and the courts just for the purpose that there are some people that don't listen and insist on causeing problems by refusing to follow the rules. Sort of like you are demonstrating here.

Personaly... I have no skin in this... I don't care if they throw the book at you or not... just trying to get you to see that you show respect in front of them, you do what they tell you to do... and smile... once you get home, scream and yeall all you want... but you are not going to win the battle, and you are only going to make them go as hard on you as they can. And what will that accomplish exactly? Not what you want that is certain.

DO you think you can win against a cop that pulls you over to give you a ticket by arguing with them? Nope. How you present yourself and what respect you show is reflected in what happens next.

I've walked away with warnings from more than a few speeding tickets... and several were 20+ over the limit... and the rest were written up for significantly lower than I was pulled over for. Because I talk to them and behave in the right way that puts them at ease. If I argued Id get that and every other little thing they could find to write me up on... that is the point I'm trying to get across here... how this goes is completely up to you, you can make it easy or very, very hard for yourself.

You are right Mr. Smoothy that they have a lot of power and I don't. But just because that is so doesn't mean I should never stick up for myself when they abuse that power. This isn't a shoving match. I just want to show I'm doing what I can on my probation. I didn't know about the public property portion, so on that you do have me.

Sort of like I am doing here? What rules am I not following? Because the more you argue this the more it will seem like you don't know what attorney/client privilege is.

Your scenario involving a cop pulling me over is a horrible metaphor, my friend. I've seen 20 videos of men who's rights were abused that took a video of it and got away from the mess of trouble it would have caused had they not been recording. If I was pulled over driving down the street I would be in public and there would be nothing the officer could do should I let him know I was recording him. Presenting yourself with a video camera, staying calm, not yelling, expressing basic normal concerns as I always do, is THE BEST way to present yourself. Not doing all that but not recording so you can't prove you didn't do anything wrong anyway.

I talked to him as any normal human being for almost a year before he started treating me this way. Funny thing is, before I had shown him the evidence and my story could be deemed as just that- a story, he was always good with me. Once I brought the evidence to his office and told him that I was in fear of waking up each day, as backwards as it could be, he started pressing me and trying to screw me over around every corner.

I put his mind at ease the best I could, for almost a year. I was in absolutely no way resistant to anything he asked me until his tone of voice changed to yelling after telling him my attorney recommended I plead "not guilty" to his violation, and he got worse. And since then I haven't been "resistant to supervision," simply want to be able to show when I AM doing what I'm supposed to.

Arguing with a cop who had no reason to detain or arrest you, when video recording, is often the way to win. If they give you an order you DON'T HAVE TO follow, and you let them know your rights, they get pissed and their true nature of bullying people comes out. Let them show their true nature. If I keep mine well-meaning and friendly, even if I am in disagreement to the actions of my PO, it will be how HE acts that is shown in court. THAT is certain.

Funny...you're arguing with the wrong people here. These people are trying to help you see the way things work. Right or wrong, it's how they work and you will wind up losing if you're not careful. So I see it...you're arguing with people trying to help so I wonder how you are acting with your PO...probably pissing him off because you think you can show him what the law is. You talk about freedom of the press...there is no such thing in your case or this situation. You are on probation and, in effect, your PO owns you until you are off probation. It is what it is whether you like it or not...agree with it or not.

Why don't you approach your attorney about this situation and ask him about it?

Now I'll sit here waiting for you to argue with me and tell me that I'm wrong.

Haha. Sarcastically played, odinn. I've approached many attorneys about this. They are skeptics like you guys. I have only let you know that there is nothing wrong with wanting what is said to my attorney to stay there. I've retracted that freedom of press applies to "anywhere," so you aren't making a dent there. I'm only telling you that you are wrong if you are saying that constitutionally I have no right to withhold what I've said to my attorney.

Mr. Odinn. Those who misinform me to think that I should be some guy's little toy to toss around, I'm going to argue with. If one would like to call it a "shoving match," then it started a long time ago when I was absolutely nothing but compliant in every way.

The man gave me a violation because I was around the person who hit me again and it was against my probation. I didn't argue with him then. I didn't argue with him the next week, or week after that. I still was entirely forthcoming about every detail and answered all questions asked until he started pressing me to tell him what was discussed between my attorney and myself.

I would hope that if my PO was arguing that he has all the power and I have none and I told him that I have rights to speech or lack-there-of, it wouldn't be seen as "arguing with your PO" to say "Mr. so and so, that is the business of my attorney and myself." Just as my PO is being resistant to me having any rights, so are you. I'm not the resistant one here. I didn't flip out on him or treat him any different when he violated me when there was EVEN A WAY he could say I had done wrong. Though I was hit with a hammer last year, though I did not commit the crime charged to me, I still accepted that I had broken a rule and complied entirely until he yelled at me because I wanted to keep my legal information to myself.

Hey, at least you'll know that you were right when you go to jail. That's all I'm saying.

I think you are more determined to be a martyr than to get through this with as little punishment as possible.

You can't have it both ways. Just accept if you are going to be a martyr, you pay a high price for it... and you bear full responsibility for it.

Most of us just want to get through it as quickly and painlessly as possible.

If you didn't think I visuallized some of those trafficops impailed on a stake... you would be wrong. Keep hitting a pit bull with a stick, expect to get mauled. Then you can't blame the pit bull, because it was your fault.

Put a law enforcement official in a position where they even think there is a degree of risk to them... then they are going to come down hard on you.


The point being... thre is a time and place for everything. If you disagree with them and have a problem... do it in a courtroom. In their office, a police station or on the street... and its going to end bad for you. THey are going to react to any show of hostility towards them, and they had a gun, and a badge... and if its your word against theirs... they are going to be the ones that are believed absent proof to the contrary. And they are trained to assume the worst intentions. Because their lives depend on it.

Incidentally... martyrs usually end up dead or doing long prison sentences... sometimes in solitary on 23 hours a day lockdown.

That to me is losing, not winning.

Probation of Parole is all about making you follow the rules, jump through the hoops.. usually because people that end up there have a history of not following the rules (or laws) of society.

And incidentally... when you are in jail, or on probation or on parole. Your rights are curtailed to some degree.

Smile, shake your head, agree with them, try to be pleasant and it will go smoother, scowl, argue about everything, and be a general PITA, and they will take great pleasure in doing everything in their power to make it as hard on you as possible. Its your choice which, and incidentally... if you chose the latter, then its your fault, not theirs. Id you choose the former, and they still come down hard and heavy on you, then have your lawyer deal with it... you lose any moral high ground you may have had by being a PITA, because they can and will use it against you. And it WILL sabotage any case you may make otherwise.

There is a right way and a wrong way to do everything. Its your choice which, because you are who will pay the price ultimately.

Ask your lawyer what you don't specifically HAVE to say to him... he has the right to ask everything, just as the police do. Yes there are some things you don't have to say, just as there are many things you DO have to say. But cop an attitude... and its going to go badly for you.

But like Odinn7 said... at least you alone will know you are right when you are going to jail. For whatever that might be worth to yourself. Because you will have justified to everyone else WHY you were being sent up the river.

You don't HAVE to like the game, but if you play it by the rules, and follow the rules... you have a chance of winning the game. Do you want to win the game?

You call this a "game." Clearly, it isn't. Nothing that involves serious implications to people's lives is a game. I watched a 2.5 year old boy be ruthlessly treated like crap and abused. Two of my good friends let this woman in question have their dog on a trial run, a wonderful-souled pitbull named "Chase."

I remember the woman telling me she scared the dog out of pooping inside, and that Chase now ate her own if she was left long enough to have to do it indoors, which seemed to always be the case when I wasn't taking her out for a walk.

By the end, the dog was afraid to poop OUTSIDE without eating it to get it out of sight. I watched her once call Chase in a bright chipper tone to her, pet Chase for a couple seconds, before smacking her and calling her a stupid skank and to go away.

You don't know my demeanor in my discussions with my PO. I have always been friendly AND compliant every time my rights weren't being violated. "or on the street... and its going to end bad for you." It was here I learned of the "public place" part of all this. Yet an officer of the peace doesn't generally have that expectation to privacy spoken of anyway.

I have to ask... if you knew there was a woman out there you could stop, and had witnessed such horror across the span of months, had evidence to show what really happened, you wouldn't want to make a stand?

You know what... You aren't listening to anyone... and I for one am tired of trying to explain it to someone who won't listen to what's being said.

Do it your way, when, not if you end up in jail... you have only yourself to blame.

The world has rules... the law enforcement and legal system has very specific rules... you can play by them and get through it with much less pain, or you can fight them and make them want to make an example out of you. And trust me they can find something, or just get you upset and wait until you do it on your own in front of them. Basically get you to hang yourself. Its really easy to do with anyone that has anger management issues.


Its up to you which you prefer. Its clear you want them to make an example of you. Hope you feel its worth it when it happens.

Actions have consequences. And just because YOU think you have a certain right... doesn't mean you actually do. There are lots of people in prison because they believed they did. Its probibly the worst mistake a person can make. If you look to push the line... you are eventually going to cross it.

And I am guessing you don't have a law degree.

One does not need a law degree to see it from my viewpoint. The guy is out to get me at this point. He does have more power than I and isn't using it wisely. What is "being said" is that I should suck it up and take whatever happens without so much as documenting how it went down.

If I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't, and he has more power over things, why not at least get something to show I was what I was supposed to. As I said, I haven't been angry or yelled at him or been unfriendly. I keep my tone light, I am respectful. I say thank you after even the slightest nicety on his part, or any time he gives me useful information about programs or services that could help me get on the best track. Last I knew rules of law enforcement didn't state "it is illegal to record a government official." I'm not just arguing to argue over here. Just because you haven't given me the slightest bit of actual advice regarding the circumstance of recording in the first place, doesn't mean that I am being resistant or poking the bull or not accepting repercussions. There should be no repercussion for having a conversation with someone and wanting to document it. All you've told me is quite basically "your PO has power, don't try to do anything because since you disagree with us you must have been snotty to him." That's how the point you are making comes across.

There are a lot of people who don't have a "law degree" but enough understanding and experience to make a good case of things like this later. You want to play guessing? I'm guessing that all those people who were given compensation for what they want through, got help or advice from someone other than you. I'm sure the ones who listened to you strung up in a cell somewhere feeling hopeless because you instilled that that they have no right to stand up against anything. "Don't do anything and let yourself be taken advantage of when you can prove otherwise" is horrible advice. I hope you can understand why I see it this way.

I had an entire conversation with my PO and his Supervisor, they both tried to talk in circles to tell me I "can't be recording for posterity" because of see-through excuses that showed they really just didn't want me to. I will have you know that Vermont is a one-party consent state, gentlemen. That means I don't need his permission and am not constituted as committing a criminal activity unless I PHYSICALLY hinder him from doing his job by doing it. He may be able to search my things, he may be able to ask to view the recording. Or to have it seized as evidence if he felt there was a reason. But keep in mind, gentlemen. I wouldn't be walking in to my P.O.s office with a recorder in my hand clearly saying the words "I'm recording now" if I planned to act the fool in his office or presence. It seems to me that people here have already assumed the opposite, which is why they aren't able to give advice on the matter.


That entire conversation with my PO and his superior was recorded. I turned it on the moment I entered the hallway from the lobby, and let him know I was recording. When I got out of the bathroom from giving a UA, the camera was off. When I got home, the video of our conversation was removed. My father saw me turn the recorder on before I entered the lobby, he also saw me put the card in my computer the moment I got home to find nothing on it. My camera isn't faulty, the card wasn't even close to full, the battery not even near dead. There were at least 15 minutes of conversation there, and the entire time all I kept saying was that I am doing the best I can be doing, and that I want to be able to document that. That I want to be able to take posterity of my progress.

You act as if I see no possibility of going to jail. That isn't the case and I didn't say I wouldn't go if I had to. I asked you all how to go about doing that and if it was okay for me to, not how much power my PO had if he so felt like it.

I am already involved in a case regarding civil rights. This case, believe it or not, affects that one. All I wanted to know was if I was being constitutional or not. Older cases saw those who recorded without consent be sued for slander and other things because the recording was illegally taken, yet presented to public. I wanted to make sure if I was going to go down this road I wouldn't have to face that.

I seem to keep hearing "you're on probation, so you don't have any rights." And that just won't do, sir. Just will not do at all.

I think you disregard, Mr. Smoothy: I AM playing by the rules. It is they who are not, me who must prove it, and you who thinks I should let it get worse without even trying.

I'm not quite certain why you asked this question since you seem to have all the answers.

If you are as snippy with your PO as you are the volunteers at this site who are taking time out of their day to try to help you, I can see why you are being treated this way.

You want to be a martyr, I believe you will get your wish.

I doubt you have the financial resources to pay for a legal dream team like OJ Simpson had the first time. Without one...your chances are slim.

My money is on you losing.

If you are doing this with a public defender or tring to defend yourself....you are guaranteed to lose.

Since the OP has all the answers and is unwilling to listen to reason, this thread is now closed.

I will add this, I worked in the prisons, and saw men like this all the time, they end up doing solitary because they have to prove they are right.

The PO has the ear of the judge, and in hearings, the judge almost always does what the PO asks. If you try to disagree and fight issues with the PO, you will lose, you may win, you specific little issue, but they will have meetings without you there, they will do home searches, work searches ( all legal for them) and you can not record once you are handcuffed and they are searching.

You will go to jail, with this attitude, if the PO wants it. A PO can find a tech issue with almost anyone's Probation if they want to.

If you go to supervisors, or even higher in dept. they will back the PO, publicly. You will lose,

I have guided many through probation and while you have rights you are fighting the wrong battle, the wrong way. The very process of probation means you have CHOSEN to forego the court proceedings and consequences of what you have been charged with and agreed to a lesser charge and your freedom is contingent on going through the probation process. Not use this to relitigate your innocence on the charges, that should have been done with a simple NOT guilty plea in the first place and a trial would have been held.

All of that goes out the window when YOU agreed to a plea, and the probation that follows. Foolish indeed was the choice to refuse to answer possible violations and worse to give this long narrative of your rights and innocence instead of addressing the specifics of the violations themselves which you still have NOT revealed here or addressed and that's the issue NOT your personal interactions with an officer of the court.

In short, it doesn't matter what your rights are or how you exercise them since you have agreed to the process of mitigating the ORIGINAL charges with the probation process and subjected yourself to a level of compliance which I am positive your attorney has told you to get through in good faith.

Continue down this road, you will fail your probation because of your foolish way you exercise your rights. Bottom line is you waived your rights to a proper trial of guilt, or innocence and took the route of court ordered compliance for your freedom and accepting a lesser charge. The time to exercise your rights was before the plea and probation AGREEMENT, NOT after when compliance is what's REQUIRED.

I will tell you the same thing I tell other probationers, a hard head makes a soft a$$, so go back and read your agreement with the court, and explain why you CANNOT comply with it. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish with documenting these proceedings now, but clearly you need to change your tactics from defending your rights to full compliance of the law, and I hope you see and understand the difference, because that my friend is what you signed up for.

Your focus should be fully on why you cannot comply, and that's the only issue before you.

Now that you have had time to reflect on your bad behavior here, this thread will be re-opened.

Thank you J, I will take this opportunity to share this PM that was sent to me since the thread was closed,


You may think the only way I should proceed is to suck it up and push forward and not try and voice what is right on anything. You, sir, lack the knowledge of a Post Conviction Relief appeal, which comes in place of a not guilty plea. At the time of my incarceration, before I continued what was then pre-law education, I was given an attorney that used to date my attacker. He told me none of my evidence could be used. Feeling that I was being given a scenario I couldn't fight out of, I took the plea to find an attorney that wasn't working for the family of my attacker. I didn't take the plea deal because I had done anything wrong. A couple months later I brought every bit of evidence to the matter TO my PO. He told me he would help me, and that he couldn't believe it, I had told the truth. A couple days later, one of his supervisors (he's a new PO, but former FSU officer) must've stepped on his toes or something, and he gave a violation for it that even the judge herself believed I didn't deserve. I told her that the result of court that day did non seem non-punitive as mentioned by the then-representing defender. She told me she fully believed I had done the right thing.

Sir, until the judge has ruled in YOUR favor, you are still held to the probation procedure you agreed too. However I fail to understand why you even submitted such a question knowing good and damn well you submit ALL your evidence and concerns to your lawyer and let HIM advise you.


Thank you any and all who can shed light!

That's the question you asked, and that's what you got from what you have written despite your total over reaction to the answers you got. It doesn't matter what your issues are SIR, or why you fight and NOT just rollover, as you accuse us here of telling you, fact is we DON'T have all your first hand information.

If everyone is on your side why are you videotaping officials in the first place? That action alone put everyone on the defensive for future legal actions by YOU, and skews the way they view your case, RIGHT, or WRONG. Regardless a judge will make the final decision, not us.

I stand by my original advice to handle the terms of your probation by the rules, as again, a judge will make the final rules regarding any violations. Good luck with your appeal, and that attitude.

Hope that shed some light for you, and sorry I do NOT agree with your actions, or how you handle yourself. Small wonder you are having troubles with this situation, so do as your lawyer advises.

You have a right to stand up for yourself, but you cannot control the opinions of others, or the outcomes of such actions.

I shall add the PM I got as well.


I asked the question to see what people knew about current audio/video recordings and anything that could help me in terms of being in his office. I'm not unwilling to listen to reason. I have logical answers for all the questions and ideas proposed to me that nobody likes. If I planned on just letting the abusive woman who made all this happen in the first place, and the corrupt cops that falsified evidence, I would never have come to ask anything on a forum.

The public defender I got at the time of incarceration when I continued what was at the time a pre-law education, my attacker claimed multiple times used to date her mother. Her mother who I'd never heard from the entire time of knowing the attacker herself, called me 5 minutes before they arrested me and let the attacker go. I personally know she mistreats her son physically and sexually and she has another kid on the way. I had to witness it for too long to do as everybody suggests and not try. My PO knows I am innocent. He also recently destroyed an audio recording of mine that wasn't illegally recorded. Another P.O. was charged for that, in the last year. He will just become a part of Post Conviction Relief. Tell me the only thing I can do is move forward easy-going, I say PCR. I'm not at a dead end and don't have to stick with the plea I took.

If your court appointed attorney dated your attacker (your PM to Tal) or her mother (your PM to me), you had the right to request a change of defense. Being "pre-law," you should have known that.

You do have the right to stand up for yourself, but there is a right way and a wrong way to do that. You are clearly doing it the wrong way.

LOL, that's what happens when you date a loony NUT from a loony family... TROUBLE. Complicated drama and TROUBLE.

Freedom of press gives me the right to record anything as long as it doesn't make me an accomplice to a crime by doing it. Are you a member of the press? Are you attempting to write an article for a local newspaper? Or perhaps use your recording for a newscast? If the answer to any of these questions is "NO," you cannot use freedom of the press as a defense.

If you were pre-law, you should have known this too.

You should know that courts all over have turned from such thinking. The line between being a "member" of the press has vanished in this world where passers-by with their cell-phone or other digital media device record most events before "members" of the press arrive. To answer your question, I don't have "credentials" from some organization that make it okay to use my phone. I use my phone when it makes sense and when documentation seems like a good idea. I haven't freely distributed what I've recorded. I only plan to use it as evidence, or to show a pattern or the truth of my version of events.

My answer to all of your questions Mr J is "NO." I'm just looking to do the right thing here. Honestly. I am willing to sacrifice my freedom for the short term, as I don't have a terribly long sentence. But I am abiding the law, complying with it. I'm not using what I've recorded to slander or defame anyone. In the name of saving others from a fate like mine.

I didn't expect anyone here to find me a contingency lawyer that does this stuff all the time and expects nothing upfront, and drive me to his office. My intolerance and attitude only comes with the fact that nobody here has the power to throw me in jail just for strongly disagreeing with them or poking at them when their answer is so farfetched, the way my PO does, and I hadn't believed the only advice given would be to let everything go and live. I've heard that from many people. Those people have never had to deal with the kinds of things I deal with on a daily basis. And as I've said, I was compliant for approximately a year until what was said between my attorney and myself was told is still his business. No lawyer in his right mind would tell me I have to repeat what is said between us to my probation officer, or that it's a bad idea or I should "prepare to go to jail" for not telling him.

My answer to all of your questions Mr J Who is Mr J? I am a woman. A female. An intellectual WOMAN who has more of a background in law than you apparently do.

Your intolerance and your attitude (your words) are what is going to get you in trouble. You are correct. We don't have the power to throw you into jail, but your PO does.

I will agree that there is attorney/client privilege. That's no secret. Your PO even knows that. Your PO is trying to push you, and you are pushing back. That is what he is trying to do and you are falling for it.

Stop being such a belligerent a-hole. Comply without being rude, if you are able.

You kill more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

Mr. Devon, you don't get it do you? They are trying to push you and you are falling into their trap. You are doing exactly what they want you to do.

Maybe you need to think outside of the box for once, if you are capable. They WANT to violate you and you are pushing them to do just that. Stop being such a testosterone filled jerk, and try abiding by the rules set out for you.

Let us know how your way works for ya why don't you. I thought the goal was to get off probation and be free to better yourself and learn to make better decision to stay the freak out of the criminal justice system. I wish you much luck.

It is easy enough to say "you took the plea." The only ones who are not on my side are officials, exception being the judge who has overseen the proceedings thus far. It is right that I could have asked for a change in defense at the time. The attorney represented me in the past, I remember him telling me once before that there was no reason he could see that such a request would be granted. He was pushing to stay on my case and work in favor of my attacker. I had just been hit with a hammer. As it may show here, for better or worse, I often think quickly and precisely. Yet, at this time, I was very very impaired. I lost good chunks of memory for months. I let my P.O. know that I was innocent, but also told him (putting his mind at ease, as was said by someone here) that I didn't at all plan to disobey my probation or act like I wasn't responsible for it. And made good on that. Got a job, was going to the classes for abusive men they wanted me to take, despite being the victim of the crime. Participating, learning, and letting him know that despite any false causes leading me to where I am, I was learning something from them.

One day I came in, and he asked me if I'd seen the one who hit me again or she had talked to me. I had ever-previously told him no. But this time I went beat-red and told him that she had, again, been sending violent and threatening messages and trying to control me. That I had evidence of that and what happened before. He came to my house and listened to an audio recording of the attacker saying "it was the quickest decision I ever made .. I just grabbed it off the fridge ... and darted down the stairs ..... I mean, like, I heard it strike your skull. It was loud." I showed him messages later where, if I didn't bend to her whim, she'd say "I barely tapped you with the hammer" and "if I wanted revenge you'd be dead" and "if I wanted to cause you the pain you've caused me it would have been a worse blow and multiple blows." The woman I speak of was and is completely loco.

My PO told me he couldn't believe it, I was telling the truth, and he was going to help me out. That she would get the bad end of the stick this time, and not to worry about it, that he was glad I came forward with this.

She had a PO herself when she hit me with that hammer. She was on probation also for having assaulted me prior to that event. Many of you will just think "why did you stick around for any of this." Easy to say when the fear of everything wasn't instilled in you so constantly. She would tell me she was going to kill herself and her kid if I didn't show up at her door, and I'd say I've never met a better actress but a lot of the time she wasn't acting. Once cut herself in the kitchen of a small apartment really deep and I watched in horror as she reveled in whatever feeling it was that she got from it, ignorant to her 2.5 year old son playing with the streaming blood now forming a circle on the floor beside her.

When you've seen such things, to lose freedom for a while but remove a felony and right injustices of that level seem like a small consequence. I would "take it to my lawyer" but as I said before, they are skeptics like you all, and if I couldn't convince any one of you that my cause was just until now, how am I to do it in 30 (maybe an hour if I'm lucky) minutes of free consultation with any lawyer who would be tempted to poke more holes in my story before it's finished or made entirely known? I may be smart, but I'm not loaded. Without a contingency lawyer I may as well be doing this on my own.

You should know that courts all over have turned from such thinking. The line between being a "member" of the press has vanished in this world where passers-by with their cell-phone or other digital media device record most events That still does not account for "Freedom of the Press." As a pre-law student, you should know that.

Apparently I know more about the law that you, as a pre-law student does and I have not been a part of the legal system for 12 years now.

I'm not going to some event that requires a press pass. I'm going through my day-to-day.

Doesn't 12 years ago seem a little outdated for this conversation? 12 years ago the small bond-type cameras that many would try and use to secretly record were the reason for the laws in place. Today everyone has a camera and if you hold it openly in front of you there should be no reason video isn't admissible without participation in crime, no reason audio with the right consent. I can't find any site to show that VT is anything but a one-party consent state. And I didn't stand there silent while I was recording. The one party is you, but you have to be a part of the conversation too, in an audio recording, and if that is true, you need not tell the other person.

Didn't I also mention somewhere earlier that I found (after the this post started getting so deep) a grievance on another P.O. I had 3 years ago. One where the resolution stated that I wanted to talk to prisoners rights and that I wanted to be able to record my PO any time I was in his office. The head of probation and parole timestamped it with a PnP timestamp and signed it, even put a case # on it. This was a grievance #3 form by the way. His own words stated "there is nothing stopping you from recording your P.O."

You may very well know more than myself about law. I don't claim to have everything entirely understood, or I wouldn't have ever jumped into my keyboard. But I think those details could change things up a bit too. As it goes. I wasn't an A-hole a Probation and Parole, yet I did ask to record him. Someone told me not to make him feel even a degree of threat to him. He already feels that way. If he is truly out to get me, as you all say, and nothing will change that, my only option is to try and document my own works of good, progress of my conditions, and nature of interactions at probation and parole. These things would be all that would save me.

The goal is to reveal the injustice of the justice system without being oppressive. My story speaks for itself. I may have been rude here. I wasn't rude at all to my P.O. Not then, not a week ago, not now. I was forthcoming and honest and friendly. I dropped the forthcoming part as it would pertain to how I plead in court. The friendly and honest and compliant has all remained, and the forthcoming where it concerns job opportunities, program attendance, social interaction, and all the other things that matter to completing a probation sentence I don't agree with but don't do nothing for just because of my disagreement. I have been respectful.

He wanted to know what my attorney said. He pressured me into answering and the answer was to plead not guilty to his violation. From that point on he has treated me much differently. I tried to tell him that it was the business of myself and my attorney because I knew he wouldn't like the answer. I tried to explain why her suggestion made sense, being that I disagreed and was fighting (via Vacate Plea) against the original charges that gave me restrictions to being around her, it would be contradictory to plead guilty to his violation. He was still made and said he "just don't get why ya gotta do that."

Being calm, honest, forthcoming, any of the good qualities I've listed aren't going to change that since that day he's had a twitch in his eye, and been very unpleasant to see. I keep my good demeanor around him, but I feel if I don't record or try, it will ONLY then be my fault if I go to jail and can't do anything about it.

Doesn't 12 years ago seem a little outdated for this conversation?

You are a little man with a little mind aren't you? It's apparent that you suffer from little man syndrome. I worked in the field 12 years ago, doesn't mean I haven't kept up with the field.


If he is truly out to get me, as you all say, No one here said he was out to get you. However, your actions aren't angelic.

It appears you aren't a very nice boy. You are always right, never wrong.

We have tried to help you, yet you have all the answers. Still don't know why you asked the question if you knew the answers.

Through what it is I was told here I went and found the answers. I'd be ignorant indeed, if I were to do no fact-checking. Haha. My *words* here might not be, but which of my actions along the way of my story would have you believe that I acted wrongly, or anything which would opposite "angelic?"

As I said, I don't have all the answers, and had less when this post started. I'm not a little man, J. Haha. Seems you have a bit of sexist oppression going on there yourself.

You didn't say you keep up to date, you said "I have not been a part of..." (for 12 years) So I'm not just assuming that you might be a little outdated on the exact practices discussed here. It was a valid question.

I don't assume women have no place in law or court. Not at all. "J 9" doesn't represent either way, so it's my mistake for saying sir if I'm not sure. But I am not a sexist, so there is no need to treat me like one or act like one in response to what I say.

The laws have not significantly changed in the last 12 years... nor have the legal processes, only in details that are unrelated to your situation. But like Talaniman stated... let us know how your way works out for you since you are bound and determined to do it your way. You feel some NEED to feel justified in how you are overreacting, and badly reacting... and you aren't going to find it here.

We have all known people who act as you have been, they have almost all ended up in prison or dead before they hit 30 much less 40 or more.

This isn't a debate club, nor is it a Moot Court... we are telling you how the real world operates, you however think its all a negotiation. I'm guessing you are quite young. You act and react in ways typical of a guy youger than 25, nearly all of whom are driven more by hormones than logic.

It's been a while since I was involved with people trying to get through probation and I always had to talk them down from their own deep seated anger and frustrations at being in the system. They have the same thing in common as you do, wanting justice for themselves, and blaming others for it, and trying to fight it, instead of LEARNING and acknowledging the mistake in judgement that got them on probation in the first place.

For sure your conduct hasn't changed much and you still keep making a battle of this when you don't have too. You make things so hard on yourself and wonder why things are so hard. Naw the flaw in your logic is you think things have changed and you are entitled to do things differently, when in reality things have not changed and you have yet to learn to pick your battles a lot more carefully and give some thought before you act,and maybe think again.

Video taping the PO sessions is over the top. The idea is a stupid one, and highly counter productive to your goal of getting out of the system. You basic flaw is lumping many separate issues into one bowl and trying to solve them with the same solution. I highly advise you to separate your issues from your INTENTIONS, as your appeal, and probation are two things entirely. Both are different still from your initial arrest.

I think focusing on just getting through probation and drop the smart a$$ attitude completely will serve you much better in the long run. BLUNTLY, shut the hell up and lose the camera, and do as you are told. Why make this complicated because you're pissed at being on probation in the first place. You cannot learn unless you listen and follow directions.

You can't fight the system while you are in it and subject to it, so get out and let the wheels of justice work in their own time, NOT in yours. Slow going for sure, but you BETTER learn to keep your cool and follow simple instruction. I really don't give a damn what you think your rights are, or HOW you exercise them. You didn't exercise your right to remain silent, nor avail yourself the right to a speedy trial, so now you want to fight the system and get frustrated by the way it works? That's not a good decision and the logic behind you facts are seriously flawed.

Not listening after such a disaster will bite you. You have been lead to the insights you asked for, understanding and acting accordingly is up to YOU. Stop fighting yourself.

In my initial arrest I was charged with false information to a police officer for having told him the truth: that I was hit with a hammer. But that doesn't connect at all?

My frustration for being on probation in the first place did not come out in his office, as has been stated and stated and ignored and ignored so you could act like you know better when you simply won't read what is in front of you. I have followed directions also. I was at the residence of my attacker ("victim") again, and was violated for it. So what? I didn't treat my P.O. any differently or be snotty to him for it. Though I thought he was making a morally bad decision, he was within his power, as stated here, and I didn't give him any crap for it. The next meeting and meeting after that and after that all went the same way until he started screaming at me because of what my attorney suggested I do, and still I've kept calm to him about it.

You may tell me I act an age all you desire. Logic doesn't state that while my P.O. is acting this way, (and has the ability to "find a violation out of anything" as he does) I should suck it up, go to jail, and tell everybody how I may have been able to prove that I was doing everything allotted in my conditions and that I am supposed to be doing, but I listened to some random person online who told me to lose the desire to stay out of jail.

It is shown here a lot of people think I wouldn't have to screw up they could just find a reason. If he is already operating that way, and it is likely that he's trying to put me back in jail because of THE PAST AND WHAT MY ATTORNEY SUGGESTED. Not because I'm breaking his rules or conditions, that violation was quite some months ago. Anyone care to ignore all that and still act like I'm just bucking the system because I have a brain and mouth and can speak?

Saying I just want to be right all the time is kind of funny too. Just because you have found few holes in my story or ways to make me wrong, doesn't show anybody my only goal is being right. It means that if you are going to give advice, you need use MORE logic than you have previously tried to implore.

In may I suffered an injury involving a table-saw, ladies and gents. I still attended my mandated programming and came in to see my PO each week, even had some money saved to continue classes shortly before running out of funds. The day before my cast was off he tried to throw me in jail, and the probable cause was dropped.

I had just told him a few days prior to him trying to make me do work crew, that I had just finally been able to fit a shoe over my swollen foot. People get upset, people get emotional, people seem more frustrated, when they really are helpless to their situation. The only thing within my power would be to show the course of events in it's pattern and nature. Tell someone that has done all he can to show his good intentions and desire not to buck the system he is just trying to break the rules and won't take repercussions. I say I am completely reasonable with reasonable repercussions. I do accept my actions entirely. Asking to document my progress and saying "I just want to show I am doing well" is not breaking the rules or being resistant or non-complaint. Until you find a way to prove it is, it is you who are arguing just to argue and making a "debate" out of this.

You may have known a lot of people who wanted to take a stand for the better of children and peers and family and friends. I've seen what this woman is capable of, and I won't let the police cover it up. I do plan to fight the system where they are involved, but it hasn't been an active thing thus far, so you can't tell me I'm pressuring anyone there either. I did NOT plan to argue, fight, debate with, or upset my P.O. He asked a question. I told him I didn't want to answer because it was my business AND because it would upset him, which now shows as obvious because it DID upset him. Now that he IS and HAS BEEN disliking of me, it doesn't matter what the reason is. I personally know, that he treated me no differently until that day, and that I STILL don't treat him badly for it. Then he told me to answer the question and I did. After that time I nicely asked to document my progress and show I am doing what I need to do for my stay at probation.

I was wrong for that? Uncompliant? Resistant? Rude?

The bulk of the responses I've received add up to the effect of: "I don't even know why you entered the private room to talk to your attorney anyway. You were already wrong at that point and may as well have just said 'hey man, I'm all good on telling my side, just plead guilty and take whatever they want.' Now that you are wrong you can't change that."

And because I don't accept that as a final answer, or see it as giving "advice," saying "he's young because he isn't backing down so easy and has enough energy to continue down this road and take the problem head-on instead of being dominated and put away by it." Yes, I do feel I'm right a lot of the time. But I did admit to having violated probation months ago. I felt it was for the right reasons. I now have proof I was hit with a hammer which is all I wanted in going back down there, aside from avoiding the threats if I didn't.

Even when I was charged with a violation for that, I didn't give anybody a hard time.

As if, people. As if.

You like to argue don't you? Did you come here for sympathy or something? There doesn't have to be a logic to think someone has acted wrongly. You don't like what you hear? Got that, few do when its not what they want to hear.

You have admitted you don't know everything so what's your point? We are wrong because you are right? Who the freak cares, since we here have been young dumb, and wrong. Hard to feed logic to a closed mind. The biggest clue to THAT bit of logic is you argue over, and over, but have no LOGICAL questions.

Your own self absorbed stubbornness is both an ill used gift, and a curse to having both insight, and understanding. Another clue to your closed mindedness, is continuing justifying your own actions. Each subsequent decision you made based on illogical impulsive decisions, starting with her first assault, and spiralling down more dramatically afterward.

So here you sit, criticizing the lack of logic by others. Both sad and hilarious. You will learn the hard way about your own flawed logic. Just like many of us here have, until experience and reality teach us humility.