Hello:

Will DEFAULT ruin us, or is it just a liberal plot?

The Tea Party's JOB is to shrink government.. IF they actually FORCE us into default, in order NOT to ACTUALLY default, the government will have to SLASH around $600 BILLION worth of discretionary spending, IMMEDIATELY...

The Tea Party will LOVE it. That's what they WANT. And, that's what they're going to do.

Tell me it ain't so.

excon

I heard that the TP actually may be trying to get rid of the Office of the President so that there will be only two branches of government.

Hello Carol:

They are clearly trying to destroy the presidency... Like during the McCarthy era, some grownup needs to tell the tea party to shut the F**K up.

excon

If there is a default it will be the actions of the emperor... not Congress . Question his motives. Why is he ginning up the worse fears hoping for a market response before the deadline?

The One's motives are above reproach don't you know?

What shutdown? Every time the headlines read about somebody suffering because of no government, Bonehead and the TParty write a bill. At this rate, we will have the good ole US of A running full tilt in the next century. Depends on how many TParty presidents we get elected.

Or by next month we will be so ashamed of ourselves, we will destroy the TParty, like we should have done 4 years ago.

So you don't think the items in the budget should be debated ? Yeah I get it.. just rubber stamp current spending ,tack on c.o.l.'s and add more spending priorities on top of the existing budget ad infinitum . That's how we get to where we are having a debt greater than the GDP. It's got to end one way or the other... by scaling back ,or free fall. It's the conservatives that have the correct perspective and giving sob stories in the praetorian press doesn't change that fact . If you have concerns about something not getting funded then how can your side vote against the individual funding issues ?

To Dems it's not about getting anything funded, it's all about winning and hopefully destroying the GOP in the process. That is ALL that matters to them.

Hello again, tom:

so you don't think the items in the budget should be debated ?Sure.. But, not with a gun to our head. What kind of negotiation is THAT?? By threatening to default if you don't get what you want ISN'T negotiation.. It's EXTORTION. Negotiation happens when NOBODY is held hostage by the negotiations.

That AIN'T what you're doing, and even you can't pretend you are.

Excon

Release the hostages! Doesn't matter what your ransom is! You psycho deadbeats!!

Hello again, tom:
Sure.. But, not with a gun to our head. What kind of negotiations is THAT???

excon

What the hell is Obama and Reid doing with their all or nothing, we will not negotiate under any circumstances tactic? Really, ex? Don't give me that Republicans are negotiating with a gun to their head BS, it is your side that refuses to even talk. How does one negotiate if one side refuses to talk?

P.S. But hey, thank God Obama is taking on the Washington Redskins since there's nothing else to worry about.

Hello again, Steve:

What the hell is Obama and Reid doing with their all or nothing, we will not negotiate under any circumstances tactic? Really,Let's review, shall we?

What you want to negotiate is something that you COULDN'T win in congress, COULDN'T win in the Supreme Court, and COULDN'T win in the last election...

Well my friend, you ain't going to win it now. And, holding the country hostage until you DO, AIN'T our DEMOCRATIC process. It's EXTORTION, plain and simple.

Excon

You have been refusing to talk for 8 months, and the last time you tried this strategy we got downgraded.

It's everybody's fault but yours. Your hands are as dirty as ours but we admit that imperfection, while you think you have cornered the market on perfection. SAD!

You two are delusional.

Hello again, Steve:

You two are delusional.Wow! I really worked on that post. It was well thought out. I used good English. It was cogent, succinct, accurate and witty. Where did I go wrong?

Let's review. If you COULD have won in congress, you WOULD have. But, you LOST. If you COULD have won in the Supreme Court, you WOULD have.. But, you LOST. If you COULD have won in the last election, you WOULD have, but you LOST.

What do you NOT get about our democratic system? If I'm delusional, tell me where my FACTS are wrong. Oh, you don't LIKE the facts, I know, but that doesn't entitle you to make up your own.

Over to you, winger.

Excon

Before the wingers jump in Ex, its to be expected that after all the past failures of the right, they would be desperate to validate their hollering and squealing of the past 5 years.

That's why we are delusional, because we keep winning despite their best efforts. So please, show sympathy for the minority.

Hello again, Steve:
Wow! I really worked on that post. It was well thought out. I used good English. It was cogent, succinct, accurate and witty. Where did I go wrong??

Let's review. If you COULD have won in congress, you WOULD have. But, you LOST. If you COULD have won in the Supreme Court, you WOULD have.. But, you LOST. If you COULD have won in the last election, you WOULD have, but you LOST.

What do you NOT get about our democratic system?? If I'm delusional, tell me where my FACTS are wrong. Oh, you don't LIKE the facts, I know, but that doesn't entitle you to make up your own.

Over to you, winger.

excon

Winning or losing the presidential election has nothing to do with it, Obama refuses to do his job and negotiate. In fact, he called Boehner just to tell him he wasn't talking to him. So if you two think it's all the GOP's fault and they should roll over for the dictator you're delusional.

The House has continued to put forth legislation and the dictator and the Senate Dems refuse to let it see the light of day. That would be the same Dingy harry Reid that refused to put out a budget for several years AS REQUIRED BY LAW, and the same dictator that said no one was going to stop the sequester cuts he supported. Like I said, we're not stupid... history doesn't change because you keep repeating the same BS.

Before the wingers jump in Ex, its to be expected that after all the past failures of the right, they would be desperate to validate their hollering and squealing of the past 5 years.

That's why we are delusional, because we keep winning despite their best efforts. So please, show sympathy for the minority.

The only reason Dems win is because they lie incessantly, continually move the goalpost and the media covers for them. Obamacare is built entirely on a lie, and you cover for the lies in this debate.

Obamacare Snake Oil | National Review Online (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/360617/obamacare-snake-oil-charles-c-w-cooke)

Hello again, Steve:

The House has continued to put forth legislation and the dictator and the Senate Dems refuse to let it see the light of day.I don't know WHY you have such an aversion to the truth. (Hey. Let's start a thread with that name.)

Here's the TRUTH. You want the president to negotiate SETTLED law, and if he doesn't, you'll crash the economy.

I can keep on saying that, and I'll probably have to.

Excon

I think the Prez is doing a fine job, even if you guys don't think so, well maybe he isn't progressive enough by my standards, but he drives you guys nutsy bozo, so he can't be too bad.

Now Ted Cruz being president of the US is delusional. And that's putting it mildly.

Here's the TRUTH. You want the president to negotiate SETTLED law, and if he doesn't, you'll crash the economy.

And there's the disconnect. The House is not the one dictating "give me everything I want or you get nothing at all" while holding seniors hostage in National Parks at gunpoint.

Compromise means give a little on both sides. I can keep on saying that, and I'll probably have to.

Hello again, Steve:

And there's the disconnect. Compromise means give a little on both sides.It IS the disconnect. Why should he negotiate settled law with a gun to his head? A law that you FOUGHT in the congress and LOST, FOUGHT in the Supreme Court and LOST, and FOUGHT in the last election, and LOST?

I KNOW you say the last election doesn't matter, but it DOES. It was ONLY 8 months ago, and ONE of the candidates said his FIRST job was to repeal Obamacare... That was your BIGGEST shot to date to end the dreaded Obamacare, but he LOST.

Why should he negotiate now? Why would you destroy the country if he doesn't?

Excon

I can't believe you guys think governing by yesterday's headlines is a good idea. That's pretty delusional.

You want the president to negotiate SETTLED law,
What is the settled law you speak of ? The budget ended officially when the deadline passed. OK I'll answer what "settled law " you speak of . You are speaking of Obamacare ;a law deemed passed in a parliamentary trick called reconciliation... which is in fact a BUDGETARY move. That makes ALL of Obamacare ,and ALL it's details subject to the budgetary process.
Let me tell you what settle law REALLY is . A law is settled law when both parties agree that something is untouchable . Only then is it "settled law" . EVERYTHING else is subject to debate and negotiation with both parties participating .
Why is Medicare settled law ? Because it was a bipartisan law . Was Obamacare ? No... Not one House Republic voted for the bill on final passage. Nor did any Senate Republic. Not even Olympia Snowejob .
Obamacare is not settled law because the American people are deeply divided over it .
Finally there is nothing settled in big omnibus bills where one pork sausage after another resides to get funded another year ;or 3 months... whatever ,without a debate on the merit of the funding .
Now ,were the Bush tax cuts "settled law " when they were passed through reconciliation ? Of course not .Congress debated the merits of them every year they were enacted .They were held hostage with every negotiation for a decade.. and finally ,because they were passed by reconciliation ,they met their expiration date .
What you are REALLY saying is that only the Dems have the right to amend it (which has happened a few times already to this settled law). Are we to understand that when you admit that the law needs "tweeking " that you aren't in fact suggesting that the "settled law " be changed? If the prevailing mood of the nation changes and for some odd reason ,the majority of the nation calls for a universal system ,will this "settle law " be subject to repeal then ?
You guys really need better talking points.

Dems never shut the government down though, or took hostages.

The hell they didn't .it was frequently employed by the Dems in the 1980s

When did the government shut down?

A default would be a disaster for the world's economy and I'm afraid because stocks could plunge like 2008. Why can't the Republicans control those teabagger idiots? The main political parties in Canada have some extreme members but the party establishment keeps them in line by not giving them cabinet positions and expels them from the party if they cross the crazy line.

When did the government shut down?

Under Ford Rep Pres Dem Congress 1 1976
Under Carter Dem Pres Dem Congress : 1977-1980 5 separate shut downs
Under Reagan Rep Pres Dem Congress 1981--1988 8 separate times .
Under Bush Rep Pres Dem Congress 1990 once
Under Clintoon Dem Pres Republic Congress once

A default would be a disaster for the world's economy and I'm afraid because stocks could plunge like 2008. Why can't the Republicans control those teabagger idiots? The main political parties in Canada have some extreme members but the party establishment keeps them in line by not giving them cabinet positions and expels them from the party if they cross the crazy line.

There will not be a default .that is just a scare tactic by Emperor Zero . There is more than enough daily revenues to cover the debt obligations . It's up to him to do his job and pay the debt obligations from the tax revenues if he can't come to an agreement on the debt ceiling . You want to talk of a disaster... a disaster is the uncontrolled spending of Washington that goes on unrestrained .The lefty Dems won't address the out of control spending . The beltway establishment Repubics have not done any better . The only group in Washington that has an eye on reigning in out of control spending is the ones you deride as "tea baggers " . When the emperor campaigned in 2008 he called the out of control spending "unpatriotic " .

Hello again, tom:

What is the settled law you speak of ?Look.. This isn't about settled law being written in stone.. It's about your tactics.. Inside the halls of congress, you may bring up ANY bill you choose to accomplish ANY goal you want..

What you CAN'T do, is hold the country hostage until you get what you want... And, you've got right wing terrorists who want to TEAR it down.

Excon

There will never be resolution with that type of inflamatory rhetoric being used by the emperor. But during yesterday's presser ,the emperor spilled the beans and revealed the real problem. He doesn't want to make tough calls on the budget.
And by the way, you know, I often hear people say, well, in the past it's been dealt with all the time. The truth of the matter is, if you look at the history, people posture about the debt ceiling frequently, but the way the debt ceiling often got passed was, you'd stick the debt ceiling onto a budget negotiation once it was completed because people figured, well, I don't want to take a bunch of tough votes to cut programs or raise taxes and then also have to take a debt ceiling vote; let me do it all at once.
So when he opposed the debt ceiling increase in 2007 ,he was just posturing .
He wants the vote 'present ' slip the debt ceiling increase into an huge omnibus spending bill so the people won't notice that the debt has ballooned to $17 trillion +... and that is the real fiscal cliff.

Lol, first you argue about it being settled law and now it's not written in stone. I just said it yesterday, always moving the goalpost. And for a regime that's holding seniors hostage at gunpoint in Yellowstone your complaint about tactics is certainly not very moving.

P.S. You were certainly not a fan of unconditional surrender when Dems were the minority.

Tal said something about TParty's whims to blame, but Obama is the only one subject to whims, his own, inflicting as much pain as possible by doing inexcusable things like holding seniors hostage at gunpoint in Yellowstone.

The public sees through this and blames both sides rather equally, even though you wouldn't know that by the headlines.

POLL: GOP GETS THE BLAME IN SHUTDOWN (http://bigstory.ap.org/article/poll-gop-gets-blame-shutdown)

Not exactly.


Overall, 62 percent mainly blamed Republicans for the shutdown. About half said Obama or the Democrats in Congress bear much responsibility.

Asked if she blamed Obama, House Republicans, Senate Democrats or the tea party for the shutdown, Martha Blair, 71, of Kerrville, Texas, said, yes, you bet. All of them.

"Somebody needs to jerk those guys together to get a solution, instead of just saying 'no,'" said Blair, an independent. "It's just so frustrating." It's also costly: She's paid to fly with a group to four national parks in Arizona and California next month and says she can't get her money back or reschedule if the parks remain closed.

The emperor's sheen is gone, too, with a low approval rating of 37 percent.


Most Americans disapprove of the way Obama is handling his job, the poll suggests, with 53 percent unhappy with his performance and 37 percent approving of it. Congress is scraping rock bottom, with a ghastly approval rating of 5 percent.

Indeed, anyone making headlines in the dispute has earned poor marks for his or her trouble, whether it's Democrat Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader, or Republican John Boehner, the House speaker, both with a favorability rating of 18 percent.

And a majority want Obama to get off his high horse and make a deal.


Fifty-two percent said Obama is not doing enough to cooperate with Republicans to end the shutdown; 63 percent say Republicans aren't doing enough to cooperate with him.

So if your hopes are pinned on pressure to make Republicans cave, and they are, too darn bad. The people think they all suck and expect a compromise.

Looks like another "cave" is in the making .

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a319/fladj11/Aug%202013/undocumented_democrats_RINOs.jpg

If we default
I will drive my Renault
Through the White House Gate
And accept my Fate

Some say a Renault will burst into fire, some say ice.
Ice 9 sounds good to me.
Or - just 42.

Dingy Harry had another presser to whine about those Republican anarchists (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGFJSINB9kU&feature=youtu.be) again (had to throw that in for those of complaining of name calling and such), only this time Washington, D.C. Mayor Vincent Gray dropped by (http://www.nbcwashington.com/video/#!/blogs/first-read-dmv/Reid-Snaps-at-Gray-After-the-Mayor-Crashed-the-Majority-Leader-27s-News-Conference/227143611) and asked him to reconsider his "just say no" strategy.

Reid's response says it all, telling Gray "I'm on Your Side; Don't Screw It Up."

zVjhs0YlOM0

Don't screw what up Harry? You mean not everyone in your own party believes in you're my way or the highway strategy, that someone ought to be talking to Republicans and working out a compromise?

In another dumbfounding example of this regime's NPS gone wild (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/9/first-amendment-used-to-break-park-service-barrier/) in the shutdown charade, according to them only certain national parks and historical sites are subject to the "first amendment exception" that I don't quite get anyway, these sites belong to us.


Rangers [in Washington D.C.] told visitors Wednesday that they could not deny entry to anyone who wanted to exercise First Amendment rights, and could not interrogate visitors, which effectively means the monument is open to those aware of the loophole.

“The First Amendment trumps all,” a Park Service ranger told visitors…

Michael Litterst, a National Park Service spokesman, said the First Amendment exception applies only to several Washington and Philadelphia parks related to the government and its history, “due to these parks’ long history of hosting First Amendment events, their expansive outdoor grounds, and their location in major metropolitan areas.”

“You could not host a First Amendment rally at Chaco Culture, Grand Canyon, Manassas or any one of the 395 other parks where such activities are prohibited during the shutdown. They can be held only at the National Mall and Memorial Parks, the areas of the White House administered by the NPS, and Independence National Historical Park,” he said.

So wait, the first amendment trumps all - but only at certain parks of their choosing? I don't think so, and I'm more than a little concerned that our lib friends here don't seem bothered by the abuses of the current regime.

The whole damn country and the government belongs to US, so how can a minority in the house (TParty) shut it down in the first place?

Get it running, or get gone!! I wouldn't negotiate such dumb terms either. Who would?

The whole damn country and the government belongs to US, so how can a minority in the house (TParty) shut it down in the first place?

Get it running, or get gone!!!!!!!!!!!! I wouldn't negotiate such dumb terms either. Who would?

Because it isn't them . It's the emperor who is holding the country hostage. The Repubics have moved their position more than once in the last couple weeks. It's the emperor who likes drawing red lines you know .

That's what you get after 5 years of name calling and dirty tricks and obstruction of his agenda, appointments and just about everything you could throw at him. And still after 2 elections you expect him to kiss YOUR butts.

That's outrageous. Keep celebrating your shutdown and be happy like Ted C, and Michelle B. and Sarah P. and Rush L.

Ironic that after 8 years of Bush and a president, Pelosi and Reid calling us terrorists and anarchists, refusing to negotiate on anything you would make such an outlandish comment.

As one Tea Party congressman just said, Clinton didn't intentionally antagonize Republicans. I would add that Bush didn't intentionally antagonize Democrats, and I'd say that Obama's problem is he doesn't even pretend to be the president of all Americans, he thinks it's all about him. So spare me your nonsensical rants.

Hello again,

So, it looks to ME like the Republicans got their a$$'s handed to them. Their shutdown gave them NOTHING except a potential loss of the their majority in the House.

Will you please correct me and tell me how you won?

excon

Hello again,

So, it looks to ME like the Republicans got their a$$'s handed to them. Their shutdown gave them NOTHING except a potential loss of the their majority in the House.

Will you please correct me and tell me how you won??

excon

So, like Dingy Harry and the WH it was all about winning. Screw the country, just win, baby.

Thought this was interesting:

http://www.themorningnews.org/article/the-debt-ceiling

Hello again, Steve:
So, like Dingy Harry and the WH it was all about winning. Screw the country, just win, baby.So, you DID lose, huh? Bummer for you.

Look. Since Obama represents the people, and right wingers don't, when HE wins WE ALL win.

Excon

Hello again, Steve:So, you DID lose. Bummer for you.

Look. Since Obama represents the people, and right wingers don't, when HE wins WE ALL win.

Excon

I did not announce any winners or losers, I spoke of attitudes. As I said above:


As one Tea Party congressman just said, Clinton didn't intentionally antagonize Republicans. I would add that Bush didn't intentionally antagonize Democrats, and I'd say that Obama's problem is he doesn't even pretend to be the president of all Americans, he thinks it's all about him.

BY all means you can try to show us how he has even tried to be the president to all but he hasn't. He's been the most partisan, divisive president
In my lifetime. You can pretend he isn't but you're only fooling yourself, not us.

I know you aren't stupid (stubborn, yes) so I'm quite certain you can see the intentional pain he's inflicted on Americans to get his way. I doubt you'll admit it, but I know you can see it, and it's a pathetic, shameful way for the 'leader' of the American people to behave.

Hello again, Steve:

I know you aren't stupid (stubborn, yes) so I'm quite certain you can see the intentional pain he's inflicted on Americans to get his way. I doubt you'll admit itApparently, you think I'm a hypocrite, and my partisanship WON'T let me admit it.

Listen here, right winger. I'm going to give YOU a great deal more respect than you just gave me. Here's the FACTS. You are WRONG. Your politics are WRONG. And you're ON the WRONG side.

But, I don't think you're a hypocrite about it.

Excon

I see no "win or loss "at this time . Bonehead threw the emperor a bone and the emperor rejected it. Both sides are now talking.. Did I miss anything else ? When the emperor rejected the 6 week extension of the debt ceiling .Bonehead should've ended the talks then .

I'll tell you where America lost . The emperor using his manufactured crisis to skip the 2 Asian conferences.That was a big loser for the country .

As for the talks ,my biggest concern is that Mitch McConnell will go soft. He represents the worse of the Republic instinct. He's 'Charlie Brown' to the emperor as 'Lucy" ,

Charlie Brown, Lucy and the Football. - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=055wFyO6gag)

Hello again, tom:

Did I miss anything else ? Uhhh, YEAH!

The Republican Party has been badly damaged in the ongoing government shutdown and debt limit standoff, with a new NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll (http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/10/20903624-nbcwsj-poll-shutdown-debate-damages-gop?lite) finding that a majority of Americans blame the GOP for the shutdown, and with the party’s popularity declining to its lowest level.

By a 22-point margin (53 percent to 31 percent), the public blames the Republican Party more for the shutdown than President Barack Obama – a wider margin of blame for the GOP than the party received during the poll during the last shutdown in 1995-96.

Excon

Oh yeah .I forgot to reference the poll of the day! If I did then I would've also seen the emperor's ratings tanking.
Would that be the poll that has this weighting ?
43% of Respondents are Democrats and 32% were Republicans. 44% voted for Obama vs 35% for Romney. And 5% did not know who they voted for.
And 22% of those questioned are either Fed ,State ,or local gvt employees .

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/MSNBC/Sections/A_Politics/_Today_Stories_Teases/Oct_poll.pdf
I usually don't quote polls when they favor my position because I don't trust the methodology of the questioning ,and the questions used to make the evaluations. I especially don't trust MSNBCs polling even if they combine their resources with the WSJ . The only part of the WSJ that has much credibility to me is their editorial dept.which has a separate editor from the rest of the publication. And before you say it ;yes I know who owns it... the guy who gave his campaign contributions to the emperor.

Pg 16 and 17 of the pdf.

Hello again, Steve:
Apparently, you think I'm a hypocrite, and my partisanship WON'T let me admit it.

No, I'm not calling you anything. I think you're a good man but I am disappointed you won't admit to the hyper-partisan ways of this president and the abuses the regime has intentionally perpetrated on its citizens in the last two weeks.


Listen here, right winger. I'm going to give YOU a great deal more respect than you just gave me. Here's the FACTS. You are WRONG. Your politics are WRONG. And you're ON the WRONG side.

But, I don't think you're a hypocrite about it.

And I think you're wrong, too, but let's stop the charade. We don't hate Obama, we don't hate women, we aren't coming after their tampons or birth control, we don't hate children after their born or want to rape and pillage the poor. Time to grow up and talk like adults.

Hello again, Steve:

but I am disappointed you won't admit to the hyper-partisan ways of this president and the abuses the regime has intentionally perpetrated on its citizens in the last two weeks.Here's what you don't get. I have seen NO evidence of Obama INTENTIONALLY perpetrating ANYTHING on his citizens. I don't know WHAT press you're reading that tells you that, but I DON'T read them. And, if I did, I WOULDN'T BELIEVE them. You think, I think LIKE you, but I don't.

What I see, is the damage to the country that you right wingers caused by shutting down the government.. The evidence is CLEAR.

I COULD ask what's wrong with YOU that you don't see it, but I don't think you're a hypocrite.

Excon

Romney and Rove didn't believe the polls either. Seems the only ones blaming the Prez for this shutdown are the right wing TParty types.

Time to grow up and talk like adults.I've been saying that for a while now but you just answer by insulting me.

I've been saying that for a while now but you just answer by insulting me.

When you decide to act like an adult I'll treat you like one.

See?

Romney and Rove didn't believe the polls either. Seems the only ones blaming the Prez for this shutdown are the right wing TParty types.

Since we are quoting polls... his job approval rating was at 37% last I saw and was dropping into GW territory. The must be a lot of TP types out there .

since we are quoting polls ....his job approval rating was at 37% last I saw and was dropping into GW territory. The must be alot of TP types out there .
What's Congress's approval rating now?

"Republicans again earned a 17%-approval rating from Americans, the same number from the Quinnipiac University poll conducted last week. Seventy percent of the public disapproves of the party now, down from 74%."

Yup Congress sucks too. Too many beltway Repubics and Dems in it.

Hello again, Steve:
Here's what you don't get. I have seen NO evidence of Obama INTENTIONALLY perpetrating ANYTHING on his citizens. I dunno WHAT press you're reading that tells you that, but I DON'T read them. And, if I did, I WOULDN'T BELIEVE them. You think, I think LIKE you, but I don't.

What I see, is the damage to the country that you right wingers caused by shutting down the government.. The evidence is CLEAR.

I COULD ask what's wrong with YOU that you don't see it, but I don't think you're a hypocrite.

excon

Then you haven't paid attention, it's been documented here. A Park Service ranger was quoted as saying they were instructed to make life as difficult as possible, and unless you've been in a coma you would have seen that's exactly what they did. From blocking vets at more than one memorial to forcing senior tourists to stay in the hotel with armed NPS guards that specifically came to protect Old Faithful from having visitors outside to view it, God forbid. But I guess all those pictures, videos, vets and seniors just lied because they hate Obama.

A Park Sevice ranger was quoted as saying they were instructed to make life as difficult as possible
Who instructed them to do that?

Who instructed them to do that?

I don't know, but I know who could have instructed them to back off, and he didn't.

but I know who could have instructed them to back off, and he didn't.Who's that?

Hello again, Steve:

A Park Service ranger A SINGLE Park Service Ranger flapping her gums, does NOT indicate that a presidential order was given..

Same thing with Lois Lerner. A LONE IRS employee flapping HER gums, does NOT indicate that a presidential order was given.

Let me ask you this.. IF your church was closed during the week, and somebody wanted to BREAK in, I'll bet you'd call the cops on 'em.

Do you understand the word CLOSED?

Actually, I don't think you do.

Excon

I don't know, but I know who could have instructed them to back off, and he didn't.
But it's a government shutdown. It's not an essential service.

A week ago my righty husband went to NC to a family reunion (a sister is slowly dying). He was all for the government shutdown and "let's get back to a smaller government." On his way home to Chicago, my husband wanted to go to Cumberland Gap and the Great Smoky Mts. National Parks. Guess what? That government shutdown wasn't such a good idea after all!

He should've snuck in .They can't close all the trails.

The Rangers abuse certainly was not essential services. It did a lot of damage to a dept that was generally respected in the past.
But now if you ask me ,the Park Service should be outsourced... at least the parts that deal with recreation.

But the good news is that the ones let go from the Park Service could take their new skills at Barrycade building and put it to good use on the border .

he should've snuck in .They can't close all the trails.

He's at Chimney Rock and Grandfather Mountain today. Yesterday was the Biltmore Estate and Vanderbilt Mansion. There's enough to see without going to a National Park. Who needs 'em...

I think the civil disobedience of the Vets have been the highlight of this whole sad charade .They illustrated the pettiness of an emperor who would allow the park service to spend more resources closing down open air monuments than they use when the government isn't shut down. Before any of that happened ,a Barrycade should've been placed at Camp David ,and the Congressional gymnasium.

Hello again, Steve:
A SINGLE Park Service Ranger flapping her gums, does NOT indicate that a presidential order was given..

Same thing with Lois Lerner. A LONE IRS employee flapping HER gums, does NOT indicate that a presidential order was given.

Lemme ask you this.. IF your church was closed during the week, and somebody wanted to BREAK in, I'll bet you'd call the cops on 'em.

Do you understand the word CLOSED?

Actually, I don't think you do.

excon

In other words you don't want to discuss this rationally.

In other words you don't want to discuss this rationally.

Now that goes without saying, do you actually think any part of this is rational, this is the lunatic fringe running your country

Yup the emperor and his cohorts are a lunatic fringe

yup the emperor and his cohorts are a lunatic fringe

You know Tom from a distance it looks different, you see there are some people who are willing to risk a financial meltdown which affects the whole world to make some lousy domestic point about whether some people get health insurance, looks pretty stupid and just a little gutless from here

You know Tom from a distance it looks different, you see there are some people who are willing to risk a financial meltdown which affects the whole world to make some lousy domestic point about whether some people get health insurance, looks pretty stupid and just a little gutless from hereI agree.

It goes much deeper than funding Obamacare.. . and your perception is wrong. The gvt shutdown is about funding Obamacare . The looming debt ceiling is a manufactured crisis by the emperor that is only connected to the shutdown because the emperor chooses to link the 2 issues. He has already turned down an extension of the debt ceiling because the only way he knows how to govern is to create crisis's to exploit. Remember Rham Emanuel's infamous quote ;

Rahm Emanuel: You never want a serious crisis to go to waste - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yeA_kHHLow)

Hello again, tom:

The gvt shutdown is about funding Obamacare Nahhhh.. That was last week. This week you guys want... Uhhhh, you guys want... Give me a minute...

Oh, that's right. You want EVERYTHING you'll NEVER win in an election...

Bwa, ha ha ha.

Excon

Hello again,

I need some help here... I've been thinking about this. Closed is closed, and that's just so. Nonetheless, I DON'T believe Obama is closing ANYTHING to PUNISH anybody - NOT because he's a wonderful human being - BUT because there's NO upside to it. Now, I'm ALL for political chicanery. I LOVE political TRICKS. I'm IN to tactics that make the Republicans look STUPID...

But, I'm NOT in to a trick that gains NOTHING for your side and gives EVERYTHING to the other side... Can you tell me what Obama GAINS by "punishing" the people?

excon

Hello again,

I also want to know HOW a default isn't really going to BE a default like the Tea Baggers are telling us. Do I need to link you to them? You know who they are.. Tom Coburn, Rand Paul, Mike Lee, and others.

I probably don't have to. I'm sure our resident right wingers BELIEVE that crap too.

excon

Are we seeing wingers running out of rocks to throw? Will they have to resort to throwing spit balls? Or have they been hollering so much they ran out of spit too?

Maybe they are not as smart as a box of rocks.

it goes much deeper than funding Obamacare ... ... and your perception is wrong. The gvt shutdown is about funding Obamacare . The looming debt ceiling is a manufactured crisis by the emperor that is only connected to the shutdown because the emperor chooses to link the 2 issues. He has already turned down an extension of the debt ceiling because the only way he knows how to govern is to create crisis's to exploit. Remember Rham Emanuel's infamous quote ;

Rahm Emanuel: You never want a serious crisis to go to waste - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yeA_kHHLow)

Don't give me that Cruz linked the Debt Ceiling to Obamacare

Show me where . Cruz's effort at defunding was in the CR debate ;NOT the debt ceiling . There are other issues in the debt ceiling that needs addressing like the long term liabilities of entitlements ,of which Obamacare is a new albatross . But that has not been a feature in the corrent debt ceiling negotiations (actually it's a stretch to call any of this "negotiations ".. you need at least 2 parties at a negotiation... not one like the emperor who says he won't negotiate )

Hello again,

I need some help here... I've been thinking about this. Closed is closed, and that's just so. Nonetheless, I DON'T believe Obama is closing ANYTHING to PUNISH anybody - NOT because he's a wonderful human being - BUT because there's NO upside to it. Now, I'm ALL for political chicanery. I LOVE political TRICKS. I'm IN to tactics that make the Republicans look STUPID...

But, I'm NOT in to a trick that gains NOTHING for your side and gives EVERYTHING to the other side... Can you tell me what Obama GAINS by "punishing" the people?

excon

It's all pr . He was betting on the public getting pissed off over the inconveniences his punitive actions have imposed and that the public would turn on the Repubics and demand they settled. It's been a generally successful strategery except for the downside that he didn't anticipate that the public would equally blame him.

Hello again,

I also wanna know HOW a default isn't really going to BE a default like the Tea Baggers are telling us. Do I need to link you to them?? You know who they are.. Tom Coburn, Rand Paul, Mike Lee, and others.

I probably don't have to. I'm sure our resident right wingers BELIEVE that crap too.

excon[/QUO...

When there is a default it will be a default . A default will not happen unless the emperor chooses to let one happen. There is enough revenue coming in daily to pay the debt obligations of the nation. It will take some hard prioritizing.. which means the emperor will have to do more than vote present and golf.

You know Tom from a distance it looks different, you see there are some people who are willing to risk a financial meltdown which affects the whole world to make some lousy domestic point about whether some people get health insurance, looks pretty stupid and just a little gutless from here

This is what you should know . When the US had unlimited capital to waste ,consensus was built by horse trading and buying off the opposition. What happens when you run out of horses ? Politics then becomes a zero sum game. That makes negotiations very complex... especially when one side's attitude about it is "we won..you lost ...get over it " .

You guys have been trying to repeal the social programs since Eisenhower. You have failed. Even King Reagan was against them, he failed. The right wing is desperate to corrupt the republicans and move them further right. You got your shutdown, and now want a default.

But purging your own will be less of you, not more. Scaring your own to keep them in line just means less rocks to throw. If you think your shutdown is unpopular, wait until we see your default.

Hello again, tom, Tea Party default denier:

There is enough revenue coming in daily to pay the debt obligations of the nation.Uhhhhh, no. If that were the case, we wouldn't be running a deficit. We DON'T borrow just IN CASE we don't have money on a given day. We borrow because we KNOW there are days when we DON'T have money.

If the debt ceiling isn't raised, on THOSE days, we DEFAULT!

Besides that, apparently you envision that we pay our bills like YOU do.. We sit at the kitchen table and write checks. If we need to wait a day or two to make sure we have the money in the account for a particularly large bill, we CAN..

But, the government pays its bills by computer. These are BIG bills too. We can't just jump in and reprogram the whole thing... We CAN'T. We absolutely CAN'T.

Excon

You guys have been trying to repeal the social programs since Eisenhower. You have failed. Even King Reagan was against them, he failed. The right wing is desperate to corrupt the republicans and move them further right. You got your shutdown, and now want a default.

But purging your own will be less of you, not more. Scaring your own to keep them in line just means less rocks to throw. If you think your shutdown is unpopular, wait until we see your default.

Only the emperor can make a default happen.

Wake up Tom, the reality is the only ones buying your horses are YOU guys. Even the TParty loves Social Security, and Medicare. LOL, change the name and they will love Obama Care too!!

Hello again, tom, Tea Party default denier:
Uhhhhh, no. If that were the case, we wouldn't be running a deficit. We DON'T borrow just IN CASE we don't have money on a given day. We borrow because we KNOW there are days when we DON'T have money.

If the debt ceiling isn't raised, on THOSE days, we DEFAULT!

Besides that, apparently you envision that we pay our bills like YOU do.. We sit at the kitchen table and write checks. If we need to wait a day or two to make sure we have the money in the account for a particularly large bill, we CAN..

But, the government pays its bills by computer. These are BIG bills too. We can't just jump in and reprogram the whole thing... We CAN'T. We absolutely CAN'T.

excon

You only default if you don't pay the debt service. Again .there is plenty of income to handle that with revenue left over to run the operations of the gvt. although admittedly at a reduced level.

Hello again, tom:

you only default if you don't pay the debt service.Nahhh.. If you don't pay Social Security, you default. Do you think that BOUNCING checks on our old folks is going to make the bond holders happy, EVEN if we're paying the debt service?? They understand that if you default OVER there, they're NEXT.

What's really really scary, is you guys HATE that man in the White House SOOOOOOO much, that you're WILLING to gamble the ENTIRE country on this stupid sh*t.

Cause WHEN that first brick begins to crumble, NOBODY can control where it stops...

It's time to declare WAR on the Tea Party, and put them in the FEMA camps.

What?? We should sit back and LET them destroy us?

Excon

Hello again, tom:
Nahhh.. If you don't pay Social Security, you default. Do you think that BOUNCING checks on our old folks is gonna make the bond holders happy, EVEN if we're paying the debt service??? They understand that if you default OVER there, they're NEXT.

What's really really scary, is you guys HATE that man in the White House SOOOOOOO much, that you're WILLING to gamble the ENTIRE country on this stupid sh*t.

Cause WHEN that first brick begins to crumble, NOBODY can control where it stops...

It's time to declare WAR on the Tea Party, and put them in the FEMA camps.

What??? We should sit back and LET them destroy us?

excon

That's what Obama Care is REALLY about, getting the loony's on meds. They have been off them far too long.

Hello again, tom:
Nahhh.. If you don't pay Social Security, you default. Do you think that BOUNCING checks on our old folks is going to make the bond holders happy, EVEN if we're paying the debt service?? They understand that if you default OVER there, they're NEXT.

What's really really scary, is you guys HATE that man in the White House SOOOOOOO much, that you're WILLING to gamble the ENTIRE country on this stupid sh*t.

Cause WHEN that first brick begins to crumble, NOBODY can control where it stops...

It's time to declare WAR on the Tea Party, and put them in the FEMA camps.

What?? We should sit back and LET them destroy us?

Excon

Wait a minute... we are told SS is funded for another 15 years or more . Oh yeah I forgot... the government plundered the trust fund and replaced it with IOUs . But guess what . Even then Social Security will be paid if the emperor decides to do so. The fact is that if a deal isn't reached by the self imposed deadline ,then the Treasury Department will be forced to prioritize payments on the national debt ahead of other expenses . That's all . Social Security will be paid by cashing in on those IOUs ;which are actually bonds. That's what happened in 1985... and a law passed in 1986 authorizes the Treasury to redeem SS bonds early for the purpose of “payment of benefits or administrative expenses.” In other words ,the law allows Treasury to redeem the bonds despite the maturity date . All it takes is the emperor's green light . Finally the emperor can and should pressure Reid to pass the 'Full Faith and Credit Act ' . A responsible President who really wants to limit the chance of default would push for it immediately . The emperor won't .

From Huffpo.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nancy-altman/disentangling-social-secu_b_905227.html


Social Security appears to be a key bargaining chip in the struggle over the debt limit. President Obama may have played smart politics when he threatened that, if the debt limit is not raised, Social Security checks might not go out on time. But he was needlessly scaring the program's fifty-five million beneficiaries, the vast majority of whom are highly dependent on each month's Social Security check. So was Speaker John Boehner who, in a recent interview, also spoke of the possible interruption of benefits.

The truth is that checks can go out, in their full amount, without adding a penny to the federal government's total debt. They can be paid without subtracting more than a tiny fraction of a percent -- if anything -- from the funds currently being used for other government purposes -- a reduction so small that it could be considered a rounding error.

Bonehead lied about the votes for the senate bill to open up the government, and had to change the House rules to make sure the vote couldn't be brought.

House Republicans Changed The Rules So A Majority Vote Couldn't Stop The Government Shutdown (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/13/house-republicans-rules-change_n_4095129.html)


So House Republican leaders made sure no such vote could happen.

In the hours working up to the government shutdown on Sept. 30, Republican members of the House Rules Committee were developing a strategy to keep a clean CR off the floor, guaranteeing the government would remain shut down.

Though at least 28 House Republicans have publicly said they would support a clean CR if it were brought to the floor -- enough votes for the government to reopen when combined with Democratic support -- a House rule passed just before the shutdown essentially prevents that vote from taking place.

Bonehead speaks with forked tongue!

Now this is why the president needs to rule by decree

Now this is why the president needs to rule by decree

Emperors frequently do.

We are finding out that the Dems really aren't interested in "clean" Cr's or debt ceilings. Yesterday we learned that they really want the sequester cuts to be eliminated . We learned today that they are willing to delay and alter Obamacare ;so long as the changes are good for their union patrons.
[QUOTE]The deal does include the more modest change of verifying the income claims of people applying for insurance subsidies. Democrats said they could agree to that change because it would merely enforce existing law.

The deal also includes a delay until 2015 of an ObamaCare reinsurance tax that is opposed by unions.
QUOTE] Senate leaders near deal to end shutdown, raise debt limit - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com (http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/328431-reid-mcconnell-deal-would-raise-debt-ceiling-to-feb-7#ixzz2hmrjMWAq)
The tax applies to all group health plans, but unions argued vehemently at their convention that it will raise their healthcare costs while providing them no benefit. Union plans are not eligible for subsidies for the simple reason that they are already helped by the tax code. Even the emperor recognized that when he denied them subsidies.



So in this case the goal of a clean CR is subjective. So now ,given that a clean CR is not a clean CR in the Dems eyes ,why aren't they including a repeal or delay of the medical device tax that EVERYONE recognizes as a bad idea ? Because it's expected to generate $30 billion in revenue. As carve outs and exceptions ,delays ,and subsidies have been granted there is a growing realization that there will not be anywhere's close to enough revenue to pay for the Obamacare boondoggle .
But for the Dems ,that is but a mild inconvenient fact . As long as they have carte blanc on their government credit card they can spend and spend and spend without worrying if the bills will ever get paid . That will happen in the future... They will be worm food by then .

Hello again, tom:

Yesterday we learned that they really want the sequester cuts to be eliminated .What? Right wingers are the only ones who can make demands? I think he ought to demand background checks for guns sales AND a repeal of Citizens United? Why not?

excon

It's all part of the negotiations the emperor said he would not do.

Hey, it's politics

Hey, it's politics

It's his m.o. Create a crisis so he can exploit it . If he was indeed going to negotiate Obamacare ,he could've done it before the shutdown.

Create a crisis so he can exploit it .You sound like those that mentioned that about Bush and 9/11.

Hello again, tom:

I don't know where you get that he IS going to negotiate Obamacare. The medical device tax is now OFF the table. You HAD that small victory at one time, but you overplayed your hand, and you walk away with NOTHING.

Excon

But if you read my comment you'd see it wasn't about the medical device tax (although clearly that is a mistake that both sides see needs fixing )... it was about the changes they are suddenly willing to negotiate to appease the union bosses. The truth is that Obamacare is not settled law as you claim. It changes frequently with every executive exemption ,delay etc. And now the Dems are again putting provision on the table after they said that it wasn't up for negotiations.

It was you guys taking futile votes to repeal ACA that kept you from negotiating the budget and the debt ceiling, so now here we are at the last minute with the government shut down and three days to avert ANOTHER credit downgrade, and the added billions that go with it.

Tell me another one about the fiscally responsible conservatives. They last negotiation cost us billions and Newt's big flop cost us billions, so what's this one going to cost?

The House has put out a budget every year while the Senate diddled around so spare us your whining.

Tparty wish lists don't qualify as legitimate budgets. Just like 43 votes to repeal Obama Care count as legitimate legislation. Its like running in a circle claiming the sky has fallen. You can vote on that too, and win in the TParty ruled house.

Tparty wish lists don't qualify as legitimate budgets. Just like 43 votes to repeal Obama Care count as legitimate legislation. Its like running in a circle claiming the sky has fallen. You can vote on that too, and win in the TParty ruled house.

The only laughable items in the budget debates is the ridiculous wish lists from the White House that even the Senate laughed off, and the Senate's own refusal to pass one for years so again, spare us the whining.

Meanwhile, former Clinton official, Obama CIA director and SecDef gets it.


Panetta rebukes Obama’s handling of shutdown
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ruth-marcus-leon-panetta-rebukes-obamas-handling-of-shutdown/2013/10/14/d5252dc4-34f9-11e3-be86-6aeaa439845b_story.html)
By Ruth Marcus, Published: October 14

Leon Panetta served in Washington with nine presidents, starting with Lyndon Johnson. He has been a member of Congress, Office of Management and Budget director, White House chief of staff, director of the Central Intelligence Agency and secretary of defense — the last two under President Obama. He is a man who knows Washington and knows how to choose his words. So Panetta’s implicit rebuke of the president’s hands-off approach to the budget crisis at a breakfast Monday was striking.

Indeed, implicit may be an understatement. Asked repeatedly whether he was being correctly understood as critical of President Obama, Panetta was careful to assert that “I don’t want to put it all on the president” and that there is “enough blame to go around.” But he did not spare Obama.

“We govern either by leadership or crisis. . . . If leadership is not there, then we govern by crisis,” Panetta said at the start of the session, sponsored by The Wall Street Journal. “Clearly, this town has been governing by crisis after crisis after crisis.”

Which raised the obvious question: What does this say about the president’s leadership?

Several observations ensued. “This town has gotten a lot meaner in the last few years.” Relationships have deteriorated. Redistricting into safe seats hasn’t helped. Neither has the explosion of money in campaigns, or the elimination of earmarks. (Negotiating one Clinton budget, Panetta recalled, “I think I sold about six bridges to get there.”)

Then, to Obama. “This president — he’s extremely bright, he’s extremely able, he’s somebody who I think certainly understands the issues, asks the right questions, and I think has the right instincts about what needs to be done for the country.”

Next came the “but” — without a name but with a clear message. “You have to engage in the process. This is a town where it’s not enough to feel you have the right answers. You’ve got to roll up your sleeves and you’ve got to really engage in the process . . . that’s what governing is all about.”

Well Mr. President, what about it?

Now your mad because he told you guys to kiss his ****** A$$? 5 years of trash talk will bring that out. Even your secret slush money fund is telling you to shut the hell up.

The only ones supporting you are YOU! But of course that's all you count any way, so rant on!

Now your mad because he told you guys to kiss his ****** A$$? 5 years of trash talk will bring that out. Even your secret slush money fund is telling you to shut the hell up.

The only ones supporting you are YOU! But of course that's all you count any way, so rant on!

Interesting, Leon Panetta says it's a failure of leadership in the White House and you go off on that indecipherable tangent? You need more fiber.

I don't agree with Panetta, and in light of this

Fitch puts US credit rating on negative watch - Yahoo Finance (http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fitch-puts-us-credit-rating-211725892.html)

I guess you shoot the hostages, and pay the price. Heritage foundation said vote no on the new house proposal, and Bonehead delays vote. A rerun of 2011, so I guess all he has left is a vote on the senate bill.

GOP disarray: On-again, off-again House vote on shutdown plan - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/15/politics/shutdown-showdown/index.html)

When this happened in 2011, President Clinton said he would not hesitate to raise the debt limit himself by executive order or use the 14th amendment to do so, many law professors say Obama would be in the right and public opinion would overwhelmingly be on his side so I wish he would grow a pair and do it. Why is Obama just standing by and letting this happen? It is really damaging the economy, making the U.S. Look like fools to the rest of the world and making him look like a weak, ineffective leader.

Earl it's politics. If he can make the Republicans look bad enough they might get a considerably reduce majority in the next election and electors might specifically censure tea party candidates

That's what happens when the electorate sends bomb throwers to govern with no experience in world finances. It's no secret the only purpose of the TParty is to bring down the government, and the people are just collateral damage.

What a minute! They lost the last election didn't they?

Now that Obama has won a second term, what does the tea party have to gain by giving him a hard time? They are so stupid, they don't even realize that they're stupid.

When this happened in 2011, President Clinton said he would not hesitate to raise the debt limit himself by executive order or use the 14th amendment to do so, many law professors say Obama would be in the right and public opinion would overwhelmingly be on his side so I wish he would grow a pair and do it. Why is Obama just standing by and letting this happen? It is really damaging the economy, making the U.S. Look like fools to the rest of the world and making him look like a weak, ineffective leader.

Because it would be a blatant violation of Article 1 sec 8 clause 3 which states that [The Congress shall have Power ]To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

The 14th does not give the President the power or authority to make that call . If he attempts to do so ,the House of Reps should immediately move and vote on articles of impeachment .

Impeachment is a laugh. It would require a two thirds majority and the Reps have 46, not even half. More importantly, impeaching the president for saving the economy from a crisis that they started would be political suicide, although their approval rating can't get much lower.

Didn't hurt Clinton. Didn't get him out of office either.

Hmmm, maybe we get an Obama in office after Hillary. History may repeat itself. But 16 years of progressive female butt kicking might be to much for the loony's on the right but a fitting punishment for loony behavior.

Now that Obama has won a second term, what does the tea party have to gain by giving him a hard time? They are so stupid, they don't even realize that they're stupid.

Of course they are stupid, they are red neck stupid, and no is only used when you oppose something, no one says no to them. It is childish behaviour, I'll take my bat and ball and go home stuff, what we call a dummy spit.

But you know the irony there are actually people here who think it is alright for them to behave this way because it is con-stit-u-tion-al, that's a big word they think they know the meaning of, and here is another one, dem-oc-rac-y. They don't know the meaning of that one and I wonder if they have heard of government for the people

Of course they are stupid, they are red neck stupid, and no is only used when you oppose something, no one says no to them. It is childish behaviour, I'll take my bat and ball and go home stuff, what we call a dummy spit.

But you know the irony there are actually people here who think it is alright for them to behave this way because it is con-stit-u-tion-al, that's a big word they think they know the meaning of, and here is another one, dem-oc-rac-y. They don't know the meaning of that one and I wonder if they have heard of government for the people

Maybe between all your ranting you can look up some things. Like that we are a republic not a democracy. And while your at it since this president has been in office for 5 years name just 1 thing that he has supported that actually worked. Just 1 thing that didn't fail ?

Maybe between all your ranting you can look up some things. Like that we are a republic not a democracy. And while your at it since this president has been in office for 5 years name just 1 thing that he has supported that actually worked. Just 1 thing that didn't fail ?

Hi dad yes it has been explained to me on more than one occasion when democracy is lacking that, after all, it is a republic, not a democracy. Why then does this republic go to such great pains to tout its form of democracy all over the world? Is it being hypocritical?

The people elected this "president" twice, the second time by an increased majority, so they must have thought he had something going for him, even if it was he was just a little more acceptable than the other fellow, who by the way rejected 48% of the electorate.

His rescue of the auto industry was apparently some sort of success, maybe the ACA will work eventually, it takes time and a willingness to make it work, but all he has had in the last three years is negative politics and obstructionism so it is no wonder there isn't a lot to show, excepting an economic recovery that happened despite the job creators and the negativity

Impeachment is a laugh. It would require a two thirds majority and the Reps have 46, not even half. More importantly, impeaching the president for saving the economy from a crisis that they started would be political suicide, although their approval rating can't get much lower.

What is a laugh is the left's devotion to executives that seize unconstitutional powers at the same time declaring that they believe in democracy and constitutional law.

What's a laugh is after the 2011 downgrade you wingers think it won't happen again and all those job losses and adding to the deficit this has already caused.

Who paid for Cruz's tacos when he had his secret meeting with house TParty repubs? Jim DeMint? Is this the zombie apocalypse you guys bought all those guns for, your own loony's looking for red meat?

What's a laugh is that you would blame a default on the Republicans when it's ALL in the power of the emperor to prevent it .

Because it would be a blatant violation of Article 1 sec 8 clause 3 which states that [The Congress shall have Power ]To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
Typo... that should read Article 1 sec 8 clause 2

Typo... that should read Article 1 sec 8 clause 2

Tom does that clause say only the Congress shall have that power

Tom does that clause say only the Congress shall have that power

Yes . The key word is the word "shall" . The founders left no ambiguity . There are those who say that sec 4 . of the 14th amendment left a loophole for the executive.. But that is only if you find a hidden meaning in the "penumbras" and "emanations" ,and the pretzel twisting of the intent of the amendment (something the left is good at ).

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
This is clearly intended to prevent the default of debt that incurred during the Civil War ,or the Federal Gvt assuming the debt incurred by the Conferderate States . There was a concern that future Congresses would rule the rebel debt null and void. If you go to article 5 of the amendment you see that no power shift was to be assumed by any of the clauses of the amendment .

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article

So if the President does a unilateral move on the raising of the debt limit then he will in effect have done a Chavez like seizure of constitutional power. I don't care that the Senate would probably not do the right thing and try and convict him... the House should immediately move on a vote of articles of impeachment .
edit (the automatic spell check is an annoying feature .... I can have misspelled words all over a reply ;and the only thing it's concerned about is capital letters at the beginning of a sentence. ....a pretty useless addition)

Hello wrongwingers:

Seems to me, if the president was about to SAVE the country, you'd be HAPPY about it. But, since YOU'RE the ones who are DESTROYING the country, I can see WHY you're not.

Why do you hate America so much?

excon

I'm sure Chavez rationalized that he was saving the country too. I believe that Napoleon thought he was saving France . I believe that Caesar thought he was saving the Roman Republic.

I'm sure Carter thought he was saving the country.

Hello again, tom:

You don't understand default.. Nonetheless, you're advocating for it. Yes, the country NEEDS to be saved from people like you.

excon

Hello again, tom:

You don't understand default.. Nonetheless, you're advocating for it. Yes, the country NEEDS to be saved from people like you.

excon

Not at all. What I don't accept is the emperor saying that there is no acceptable option except his way. Had he truly been interested in avoiding default ,he would've become engaged in real negotiations weeks ago.
Instead he lives for these crisis moments because it fits in with his " transforming America" agenda.

Yes ,I believe that he would exploit his manufactured crisis to seize powers in violation of the constitution .He has already well demonstrated his disdain for the process.
Armed with the precedent of usurping the powers of Congress ,he would have carte blanche to impose the rest of his agenda during the rest of his term .

Hello again, tom:

Had he truly been interested in avoiding default ,he would've become engaged in real negotiations weeks ago. It's true... You threatened default if the president didn't do your bidding.. He didn't, so OF COURSE it's his fault that we're going to default.

I LOVE rightwing speak.

excon

Hello again, tom:

I see that you're threatening something else if Obama SAVES the nation... What would that be?

excon

Not at all. What I don't accept is the emperor saying that there is no acceptable option except his way. Had he truly been interested in avoiding default ,he would've become engaged in real negotiations weeks ago.
Instead he lives for these crisis moments because it fits in with his " transforming America" agenda.

Yes ,I believe that he would exploit his manufactured crisis to seize powers in violation of the constitution .He has already well demonstrated his disdain for the process.
Armed with the precedent of usurping the powers of Congress ,he would have carte blanche to impose the rest of his agenda during the rest of his term .

Tom

You go on about the president needing to negotiate and in the next breath you tell us that these bills originate in the house. The negotiation should take place between the representatives and the president exercise his office and sign it or not. The fact is the Tea Party has tried to seize power and decide which bills should be assented to and which will not. However you now ascribe to the president the power you say he doesn't have. No wonder you have a mess over there, everyone thinks he has the power and it is no wonder there is distain for the process. There truly is a crack in the Liberty Bell

Tom

You go on about the president needing to negotiate and in the next breath you tell us that these bills originate in the house. The negotiation should take place between the representatives and the president exercise his office and sign it or not. The fact is the Tea Party has tried to seize power and decide which bills should be assented to and which will not. However you now ascribe to the president the power you say he doesn't have. No wonder you have a mess over there, everyone thinks he has the power and it is no wonder there is distain for the process. There truly is a crack in the Liberty Bell

Keep on listening to the left wing noise machine and that would be the conclusion. Spending bills have originated in the House .They have passed many such budgets and bills that either don't get debated in the Senate ;or the emperor threatens to veto.
If the emperor wants something then yes he has to negotiate. Like it or not!
The left says he was elected . Well news to them... the House was ALSO elected ;and the majority of them ran on the position that they would repeal Obamacare . They are doing exactly what they said they'd do .
So if the emperor wants anything then he better do what every other President has been able to do... work WITH Congress.

Hello again, tom:

I see that you're threatening something else if Obama SAVES the nation... What would that be?

excon

If you mean that be saving the country that he seizes power designated in the Constitution to Congress... I've already stated what has to happen,

So if the President does a unilateral move on the raising of the debt limit then he will in effect have done a Chavez like seizure of constitutional power. I don't care that the Senate would probably not do the right thing and try and convict him... the House should immediately move on a vote of articles of impeachment .
Ask Me Help Desk - View Single Post - Should we DEFAULT, or maybe not? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3569920-post126.html)

I think the president should sign a presidential order to increase the debt limit and call the house bluff, they won't impeach him

Keep on listening to the left wing noise machine and that would be the conclusion. Spending bills have originated in the House .They have passed many such budgets and bills that either don't get debated in the Senate ;or the emperor threatens to veto.
If the emperor wants something then yes he has to negotiate. Like it or not!
The left says he was elected . Well news to them... the House was ALSO elected ;and the majority of them ran on the position that they would repeal Obamacare . They are doing exactly what they said they'd do .
So if the emperor wants anything then he better do what every other President has been able to do... work WITH Congress.

I just pointed out yesterday that one of his own guys, Leon Panetta, said the same thing. He needs to work with Congress, but then emperor's don't do that sort of thing.

I think the president should sign a presidential order to increase the debt limit and call the house bluff, they won't impeach him

Yeah and his compliant pretorian press will no doubt proclaim that it's Congress that caused the constitutional crisis that follows. But it doesn't surprise me that the left thinks constitutional law is subject to executive disgression .

Hello again, tom:
If you mean that be saving the country that he seizes power designated in the Constitution to Congress...

I dunno. Looks to ME like you're salivating over the default like a nice juicy steak. You're going for the hat trick here, aren't you?? Sequester, shutdown, and default... It's a right wingers wet dream.

excon

You guys are good in the house with all these symbolic votes that can go nowhere because they are partisan and just not happening, but when it comes to doing your job, you FAILED. Even by shutting down the government, you have FAILED, because your job was to keep it functional and open. No where in the constitution that you claim to know about is there a shutdown clause.

But if congress keeps failing to do its job, there is a clause for the president to act and do his, and if it comes to it, I think he will. You guys will get mad and threaten and try the impeachment thing, but again you will FAIL! Now he has been quite clear, he will not negotiate, and YOU the congress, not just the caca sandwich group but the entire congress must do their job.

Hollering and screaming because your crap has been rejected, does not relieve you of responsibility to do your jobs and make an acceptable to all, NOT just loonyville bill to get government open and functional, and bonehead can still bring a full vote of the house on the senate bill at the last minute, and he probably will.

That would be doing HIS job. Whether the TParty likes it or NOT. Good luck if you think you can stop everybody else from doing their job.

Keep hollering and screaming FOUL, but facts are, the TParty is a minority still in government, and don't have the votes to demand a damn thing, and if Bonehead had put a boot up your butts instead of coddle you like babies, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Elections do have consequences and you don't get to ignore that fact.

Show me the clause where there is a binding duty to keep the national government open . James Madison warned about the dangers of factionalism, but he thought that the differences would be offset by the checks and balances. However ,to your point... the government was not in operation for many months in the early days of the republic. There was no need for a huge 24/7/365 operational behometh . That is the invention of the progressive era. Another thing they didn't count on was the rise of the career politician ,or the absence of a balanced budget... the out of control debt accumulation by the never satisfied trough suckers .

Keep hollering and screaming FOUL, but facts are, the TParty is a minority still in government, and don't have the votes to demand a damn thing, and if Bonehead had put a boot up your butts instead of coddle you like babies, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Elections do have consequences and you don't get to ignore that fact.

I already addressed the point that indeed elections have consequences. Congress was also elected ;and they all ran on the position of reigning in out of control spending and getting rid of Obamacare .

Hello again, tom:

I dunno. Looks to ME like you're salivating over the default like a nice juicy steak. You're going for the hat trick here, aren't you?? Sequester, shutdown, and default... It's a right wingers wet dream.

excon

I see you got the talking points.

Okay that's cool, but the TParty doesn't have the votes despite why they came to congress. You cannot ignore the plain fact that following the TParty is following a minority, and for whatever reason repubs are following them, it leads to FAILURE, and disaster.

Only you guys believe Ted Cruz is the savior for conservatives and he has already FAILED to lead or influence the senate. I mean headlines ain't support, or votes. Maybe next election, but certainly not this one.

No Tom, your noisy minority rules isn't going to work. IT will FAIL. Nice try though.

Show me the clause where there is a binding duty to keep the national government open . James Madison warned about the dangers of factionalism, but he thought that the differences would be offset by the checks and balances. However ,to your point... the government was not in operation for many months in the early days of the republic. There was no need for a huge 24/7/365 operational behometh . That is the invention of the progressive era. Another thing they didn't count on was the rise of the career politician ,or the absence of a balanced budget... the out of control debt accumulation by the never satisfied trough suckers .

People and the whole freakin' world has changed since the beginnings of this country and there are more things to consider than just the original intent of meeting the needs of a nation that's pheasants and farmers.

You just cannot imagine that Madison and Jefferson would be freaked out by the notions of A bombs and Wall Street, and 360 million people and a minority of them farmers. They too would be forced to dealing with the reality of the world they live in.

Deal with the changes and make adjustments, because thing have changed, and will continue to change whether you like it, or NOT. I mean the wheel was a great idea, but we replaced the horses with motors a long time ago.

Not saying nostalgia is a bad thing, but reality is a beeyatch to deal with if you don't want to. Fact is, its 2013, NOT 1776. Embrace that fact if nothing else because Madison and Jefferson, ain't here to decide what we should do that's best for the nation. We are.


Show me the clause where there is a binding duty to keep the national government open .

You have already quoted it.

Only you guys believe Ted Cruz is the savior for conservatives and he has already FAILED to lead or influence the senate. I mean headlines ain't support, or votes. Maybe next election, but certainly not this one.

I don't know how this will play out . Maybe I'm taking the long view of this . Maybe Goldwater got trounced ,and Reagan had to lose to the beltway insider Rockefeller Repubics before he took control of the party and was twice elected . Sometimes a losing battle is worth fighting .
I know what your side wants... an opposition party that isn't really an opposition party.

You just cannot imagine that Madison and Jefferson would be freaked out by the notions of A bombs and Wall Street, and 360 million people and a minority of them farmers. They too would be forced to dealing with the reality of the world they live in.
Oh they'd be freaked out all right... at the size of government and the scope of it's power and control over the people. Jefferson argued that there should be periodic revolution to guard against the very thing this nation has become.

Quote:
Show me the clause where there is a binding duty to keep the national government open .

You have already quoted it.
No I haven't . The government has to pay it's debt . There is nothing that says it has to stay continuosly in operation.

We have revolutions every two years, what kind of revolution are YOU talking about?

No I haven't . The government has to pay it's debt . There is nothing that says it has to stay continuosly in operation.

The people have said that's what we want, and the 17% that's shutdown has pissed the American people off. Everybody but the TParty loony's, and the 20' something percent.

We have revolutions every two years, what kind of revolution are YOU talking about?

Not what I'm talking about... what Jefferson was talking about . But you are wrong . Elections are not revolutions .They are very much part of our system of governace .
I'll give you Jefferson's direct quote...


God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century and a half for each state. What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion? And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.

I ask again what kind of revolution are YOU talking about? Jefferson's opinion is irrelevant to me. And he ain't here is he?

I ask again what kind of revolution are YOU talking about? Jefferson's opinion is irrelevant to me. And he ain't here is he?

My reply was self explanatory and in context to your remark .
Ask Me Help Desk - View Single Post - Should we DEFAULT, or maybe not? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3570071-post149.html)

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.Yes! Do it!


http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/colbert-popcorn.gif

Are you advocating a second amendment remedy?

I advocated nothing . You are not that slow... so you are being intentionally provocative.

If you are looking for something I advocate ;then all you have to do is read my previous comment before you dug Jefferson from his grave.
Ask Me Help Desk - View Single Post - Should we DEFAULT, or maybe not? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3570070-post148.html)

Not what I'm talking about... what Jefferson was talking about . But you are wrong . Elections are not revolutions .They are very much part of our system of governace .
I'll give you Jefferson's direct quote...

When Timothy McVeigh was arrested after the Oklahoma City bombing, he was wearing a shirt with the "tree of liberty" quote, so it's not a good idea to be using it here.

When Timothy McVeigh was arrested after the Oklahoma City bombing, he was wearing a shirt with the "tree of liberty" quote, so it's not a good idea to be using it here.

I may make it my signature . So now someone using a founder's quote is to be censured ?

I don't know how this will play out . Maybe I'm taking the long view of this . Maybe Goldwater got trounced ,and Reagan had to lose to the beltway insider Rockefeller Repubics before he took control of the party and was twice elected . Sometimes a losing battle is worth fighting .
I know what your side wants... an opposition party that isn't really an opposition party.

Unlike many, I have no problem with principled opposition, and am fully prepared for it and embrace it. You guys have never given up, and its foolish to expect you to and I fully support your right to fight the good fight.

Go for it. I am!

I may make it my signature . So now someone using a founder's quote is to be censured ?

He said its not a good idea, where did you get censure from? No body's doing that.

Rep. McClintock Calls For Americans To Rise Up Against Obama's Un-Constitutional Usurpations - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hlgq5x5spo)

Everything McClintock says is also true of the republican party as well. The divisiveness is absolute, there is very rarely any working together... ever.

Nope ,the House has done it's job... they have passed many budgets that lie in dust on Harry Reid's shelves . It is the intentional strategy of the Dems to not put their budgets up for votes that has led to the CR and debt crisis . But that was their plan... They have effectively usurped the power of the purse from the House of Reps .

His rescue of the auto industry was apparently some sort of success, maybe the ACA will work eventually, it takes time and a willingness to make it work, but all he has had in the last three years is negative politics and obstructionism so it is no wonder there isn't a lot to show, excepting an economic recovery that happened despite the job creators and the negativity


The Auto indistry is bailing right out of here. How is that a success of anykind? Unless of course you happen to be China.


GM's big plans for China includes more Cadillac models (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/04/gm-general-motors-china-cadillac-big-plans/1)

General Motors Is Riding High In China--For Now - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2012/08/19/general-motors-is-riding-high-in-china-for-now/)

General Motors Leaves U.S. Workers by the Wayside as it Accelerates Operations in China - Money Morning (http://moneymorning.com/2009/05/18/general-motors-china/#)

General Motors Leaves U.S. Workers by the Wayside as it Accelerates Operations in China

https://scontent-b-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/1374786_551062671648107_967556657_n.jpg

The Auto indistry is bailing right out of here. How is that a success of anykind? Unless of course you happen to be China.


GM's big plans for China includes more Cadillac models (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2012/04/gm-general-motors-china-cadillac-big-plans/1)

General Motors Is Riding High In China--For Now - Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonchang/2012/08/19/general-motors-is-riding-high-in-china-for-now/)

General Motors Leaves U.S. Workers by the Wayside as it Accelerates Operations in China - Money Morning (http://moneymorning.com/2009/05/18/general-motors-china/#)

General Motors Leaves U.S. Workers by the Wayside as it Accelerates Operations in China

Updated 2012-04-25 1:38 PM

8/19/2012 @ 6:11PM |7,387 views

By Jason Simpkins, Managing Editor, Money Morning
May 18, 2009

More recent news.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20130906/OEM/130909908/gm-outlook-raised-to-positive-by-s

http://autos.aol.com/article/auto-sales-september-2013/

http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-09-06/gm-ford-reap-rating-upgrades-along-with-booming-sales

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-06/gm-credit-outlook-revised-to-positive-by-s-p-ford-raised.html

That's not what he said.


“Well, David, you know at every stage, my prayer to God is that His will be done,” Cruz insisted. “As it will be.”

That's entirely different from your pathetic snipe, but feel free to mangle his words and hate on him some more.

hate on him some moreI didn't hate on him, I just reported what god said.

I didn't hate on him, I just reported what god said.

God doesn't lie.

Religious types are all nutso.

Ted Cruz Will Not Block Vote On Senate Deal (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/16/ted-cruz-senate-deal_n_4109222.html)

On to the next "CRISIS"(?).

Ted Cruz Will Not Block Vote On Senate Deal (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/16/ted-cruz-senate-deal_n_4109222.html)

On to the next "CRISIS"(?).

And that would be amnesty (http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/10/16/obama-univision-government-shutdown-debt-ceiling/2992443/), then anything else to change the subject from the disaster that is Obamacare.

Religious types are all nutso.

I see you accepted my invitation.

So God is alive and well and living in the USA? I have a blast for you. That place does not resemble heaven but then you have been serving another god for many years

And that would be amnesty (http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2013/10/16/obama-univision-government-shutdown-debt-ceiling/2992443/), then anything else to change the subject from the disaster that is Obamacare.

Nobody expects you to stop squealing repeal. But don't expect a captive audience. I think the hostages are escaping, stay tuned though.

So God is alive and well and living in the USA? I have a blast for you. That place does not resemble heaven but then you have been serving another god for many yearsThe USA has made a mockery of christianity.

Nobody expects you to stop squealing repeal. But don't expect a captive audience. I think the hostages are escaping, stay tuned though.

It's not about hollering and squealing, it's about manipulating the news cycle.

The USA has made a mockery of christianity.
How does Christianity look?

Now, how does the USA look to the rest of the world by comparison?

How does Christianity look?

Now, how does the USA look to the rest of the world by comparison?

Christianity is not about being pious on Sunday and living like hell for the rest of the week. It is about having consideration for others. Scripture says if you have a problem with your brother settle it before you go to worship God. I think the last week has summed up what the USA looks like to the rest of the world. Squabbling irresponsible children and certainly not a nation that should be considered a world leader

Greenie for clete.

Updated 2012-04-25 1:38 PM

8/19/2012 @ 6:11PM |7,387 views

By Jason Simpkins, Managing Editor, Money Morning
May 18, 2009

More recent news.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20130906/OEM/130909908/gm-outlook-raised-to-positive-by-s

Auto Sales Tail Off In September But Outlook Still Good (http://autos.aol.com/article/auto-sales-september-2013/)

GM, Ford Reap Rating Upgrades Along With Booming Sales - Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-09-06/gm-ford-reap-rating-upgrades-along-with-booming-sales)

S&P Approval of GM, Ford Reflects Industry Recovery - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-06/gm-credit-outlook-revised-to-positive-by-s-p-ford-raised.html)

So your trying to prove what? They are still running away to China and they are cutting off American workers while selling secrets as part of the deal.

Walmart can tout success too off the Chinese since they backed away from being a made in America company.

Ted Cruz Will Not Block Vote On Senate Deal (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/16/ted-cruz-senate-deal_n_4109222.html)

On to the next "CRISIS"(?).

Ted Cruz stood real tall during the last few weeks . Speaker Bonehead did too until the surrender monkey beltway Repubics in the Senate took out their long knives. This vote today is just another punt. Then they will pretend to create another bogus super committee to hash out the differences. But the cards have been dealt .There will be another crisis because the Emperor knows if he creates a crisis , he can extract a total surrender by the beltway Repubics while his flunkie Grima Wormtongue Reid hurls insults at them

Ted Cruz stood real tall during the last few weeks . Speaker Bonehead did too until the surrender monkey beltway Repubics in the Senate took out their long knives. This vote today is just another punt. Then they will pretend to create another bogus super committee to hash out the differences. But the cards have been dealt .There will be another crisis because the Emperor knows if he creates a crisis , he can extract a total surrender by the beltway Repubics while his flunkie Grima Wormtongue Reid hurls insults at them

You know Tom you sound like a poor looser. Brinkmanship was the looser in this little debacle and there is going to be retribution exacted. Obama didn't create this crisis, Cruz and his cronies did. I expect that in the cigar smoke filled backrooms men in expensive suits told the politicians the facts of life

Obama didn't create this crisis bs

bs

I note you didn't write that in big print, how come the spellchecker didn't capitalise it, fact is Tom you don't believe that any more than I do

So your trying to prove what? They are still running away to China and they are cutting off American workers while selling secrets as part of the deal.

Walmart can tout success too off the Chinese since they backed away from being a made in America company.

UAW Furious Over New GM Plant in China - Yahoo Voices - voices.yahoo.com (http://voices.yahoo.com/uaw-furious-over-gm-plant-china-426020.html)


GM has been opening more and more plants overseas, and in Mexico in an effort to save money. There are many in the UAW that believe that the plants are opening up outside of the United States in an effort to break the Union, and to break GM's reliance on the UAW.

GM has been showing greater gains in China since they began to sell cars there. Most automotive insiders believe that the Chinese market is the future for the U.S. auto industry. These insiders point to the belief that U.S. automakers will be selling more cars in China in the next few years then in the United States.

The UAW believes that it should be able to share in this increasing market. The Union believes that UAW members should be making the majority of the parts that go into the Chinese cars. This would insure their future in the automotive industry.

General Motors believes that most of the Chinese cars and parts should be manufactured in China to ensure more profitability. GM believes that it would be a major hit to profit if it had to pay all of the import costs that would go along with trying to send parts from the United States to China.

It will be interesting to see how much this plant will play in the upcoming national contractual negotiations between the UAW and GM. Chances are very good that it will play a significant part on both sides of the table.

Just collecting data for now.

UAW Furious Over New GM Plant in China - Yahoo Voices - voices.yahoo.com (http://voices.yahoo.com/uaw-furious-over-gm-plant-china-426020.html)



Just collecting data for now.

Yeppers, they sure were worth saving and having the tax payers back them.

General Motors to Build Cadillac Plant in China - Driver's Seat - WSJ (http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2013/05/07/general-motors-to-build-cadillac-plant-in-china/)


General Motors Builds 4 New Plants In China by 2015 « Yalla Finance Yalla Finance (http://yallafinance.com/business/general-motors-builds-4-new-plants-in-china-by-2015/)

It's not just China, and I have seen this movie before with Ford back in the day.

Hello again, wrong wingers:

Obama KICKED your a$$, huh? You closed the government for NOTHING.. You caused us to spend $24 BILLION that we didn't have to spend. When are you gonna to STOP shooting yourselves in the foot.. When are you gonna to stop shooting US in the foot?

excon

Bet all those people who got their finances turned upside down, FOR NOTHING, ain't going to forget who screwed them and why. Keep listening to Ted, Michelle, and Sarah.

Or better known as the lunatic right wing fringe dufus's.

Hello again, wrong wingers:

Obama KICKED your a$$, huh? You closed the government for NOTHING.. You caused us to spend BILLION that we didn't have to spend. When are you gonna to STOP shooting yourselves in the foot.. When are you gonna to stop shooting US in the foot?

excon

Hey Ex have you ever though you might be playing to deaf ears

I will be honest, after hollering about a clean bill through out this crisis, I would be pissed if the senate bill wasn't as clean going to the house as the senate demanded of theirs.

No, I won't join the TParty, and it's a bi partisan bill 81-18, but I would be pissed.

The USA has made a mockery of christianity.

As opposed to what, heathen Canadians?

The world is saved mostly by democrats.

285-144

As opposed to what, heathen Canadians?

As opposed to true chistianity, speech, which is about relationship with Christ, not telling everyone what a great Christian you are while denying help to the needy or making matters worse for your own political gain. It comes down to substance over form.

Hello again,

Ok, right wingers LOST. But, did they LEARN? I don't think so. You?

excon

Hello again, wrong wingers:

Obama KICKED your a$$, huh? You closed the government for NOTHING.. You caused us to spend BILLION that we didn't have to spend. When are you gonna to STOP shooting yourselves in the foot.. When are you gonna to stop shooting US in the foot?

excon

Yeah Repubics (especially their leadership) are like this dog I have . He bares his teeth and growls .But if he gets stared at his tail wraps beneath his leg ,his ears flop down ,and he rolls over and plays dead.

As opposed to true chistianity, speech, which is about relationship with Christ, not telling everyone what a great Christian you are while denying help to the needy or making matters worse for your own political gain. It comes down to substance over form.

Have you ever seen me say what a great Christian I am or deny help to the needy? No, and the most prominent "Christian" making matters worse for political gain lately lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. And furthermore substance over form is giving voluntarily of my own time and resources, not taking someone else's resources and wasting the vast majority of it, so spare me the pompous pontificating.

Have you ever seen me say what a great Christian I am or deny help to the needy? No, and the most prominent "Christian" making matters worse for political gain lately lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. And furthermore substance over form is giving voluntarily of my own time and resources, not taking someone else's resources and wasting the vast majority of it, so spare me the pompous pontificating.

It seems you have a lot of prominent "Christians" among your politicians and that is who I was speaking of

It seems you have a lot of prominent "Christians" among your politicians and that is who I was speaking of

Like I said, the most prominent lives in the White House.

Like I said, the most prominent lives in the White House.

No Comment

Hello again,

Ok, right wingers LOST. But, did they LEARN? I don't think so. You?

excon

The US debt now stands at $ 123,000 per US worker... $16.7 trillion +.. which will now go up under this new punt, is equal to $53,000 for every inhabitant of the US including children and the unemployed.
Students produce FY 2012 Annual report of the U.S.A. on debt, revenues and spending | The Institute of Politics at Harvard University (http://www.iop.harvard.edu/blog/students-produce-fy-2012-annual-report-usa-debt-revenues-and-spending?utm_source=email&utm_medium=pressrelease&utm_campaign=Fall2013ARUSA)

I don't know if there were any winners ,but there are many many losers.
This so called budget negotiation that will now take place will go nowhere... like past super committees or Simpson-Bowles.

And shutting down the government was a brilliant plan to reign in all the stupid spending. We should have done that 200 years ago. So that 24 billion we cost ourselves to give all those lazy un-needed government workers a paid vacation helped us save how much?

Spare me wingers while you listen to the crazy fringe who took the whole government hostage to force the rest of the congress to repeal Obama Care after you FAILED after 5 years, and an election, and court challenges and 42 votes, at tax payer expense. And after all that hollering and screaming and nothing to show for it, and I might add, nothing to show for a long time on many fronts, you have the temerity to tell me tanking the government was a great strategy.

That's a laugh that you blame Obama for YOUR failures, and the rhinos that helped him. 87 in the house 29 in the senate that had the guts to say ENOUGH of this farce in brinkmanship.

YOU failed, and America pays for that failure, so learn and find a better way to create the next crisis because obviously you cannot think of ways to fix things in an efficient timely manner.

And shutting down the government was a brilliant plan to reign in all the stupid spending. We should have done that 200 years ago. So that 24 billion we cost ourselves to give all those lazy un-needed government workers a paid vacation helped us save how much?

Spare me wingers while you listen to the crazy fringe who took the whole government hostage to force the rest of the congress to repeal Obama Care after you FAILED after 5 years, and an election, and court challenges and 42 votes, at tax payer expense. And after all that hollering and screaming and nothing to show for it, and I might add, nothing to show for a long time on many fronts, you have the temerity to tell me tanking the government was a great strategy.

That's a laugh that you blame Obama for YOUR failures, and the rhinos that helped him. 87 in the house 29 in the senate that had the guts to say ENOUGH of this farce in brinkmanship.

YOU failed, and America pays for that failure, so learn and find a better way to create the next crisis because obviously you cannot think of ways to fix things in an efficient timely manner.

Perhaps you should sign the MoveOn petition (http://petitions.moveon.org/sign/arrest-and-try-house.fb40?source=s.icn.fb&r_by=9247969) to try the GOP leadership for sedition.


I call on the Justice Department of the United States of America to arrest Republican Majority Leader Eric Cantor, Speaker of the House John Boehner and other decision-making House Republican leaders for the crime of seditious conspiracy against the United States of America.

Your side has gone over the edge and looking for new heights in extremism.

Really no different than Texas Lt. Gov. publicly calls for Obama impeachment.

Oh yes it is, impeachment is a charge and the only punishment is removal from office. No one arrests the president, drags him to jail and charges him with a crime punishable by fine and/or 20 years in prison.

As I said in another thread, liberals don't elect loony's to congress. A lesson your side has yet learned.

We let them holler, but don't let them lead.

Hello again,
Ok, right wingers LOST. But, did they LEARN? I don't think so. You?I didn't think so. They're GONNA GONNA GONNA GONNA GONNA GONNA to try it again..

excon

PS> I did that so maybe the software will learn that I LIKE the word GONNA!!!!! And I'm GONNA USE IT WHENEVER I FEEL LIKE IT!!!!!

One is on online petition which never amounts to anything, the other is the second-highest elected official in the state calling for impeachment.

The TParty did the best they could with the lies they had wrapped in the abundant supply of fresh red meat for the followers that crave it.

What do you expect from the crowd that follows its loonys? They have to feed the loony's or else the loony's eat them too. Sounds like a zombie movie, because it is.

As I said in another thread, liberals don't elect loony's to congress.
Reid ,Schmucky Schumer , Madame Mimi , Grayson... so many to name... so little time .

None of them voted to shut down government and default on our debts. Or take hostages in a losing battle.

Reid ,Schmucky Schumer , Madame Mimi , Grayson... so many to name... so little time .

Warren, Debbie Downer, Conyers, Franken, Rangel, Lee...

Your government is open for business thanks to those you just named. People are going back to work. Making money and paying bills and taxes.

Only a loony is against that.

Your government is open for business thanks to those you just named. People are going back to work. Making money and paying bills and taxes.

Only a loony is against that.

Must be the liberal word of the day.

There goes the conservative dog whistle code word conspiracy again.

Must be the liberal word of the day.
Both Chicago newspapers are full of that word in its various forms today.

Wingers think THEIR vote counts more than anyone else's vote. Another reason you don't let right wing loony's who can't count near OUR money.

Both Chicago newspapers are full of that word in its various forms today.

Yeah but that's Chi-town .

Yeah but that's Chi-town .
But one newspaper is Republican.

Chi towners aren't Americans?

Wingers think THEIR vote counts more than anyone else's vote. Another reason you don't let right wing loony's who can't count near OUR money.
We saw your core base in action when the EBT system temporarily stopped working . What they were doing in Walmart was a microcosm of the your side does to America. If the credit card is maxed out... AINT no biggie... after all... we can always tax someone else to pay the debt we accumulate ..so increase that credit limit .Keep the party going .

Both Chicago newspapers are full of that word in its various forms today.

How many uses by conservatives, and how many by liberals?

There goes the conservative dog whistle code word conspiracy again.

No, I can can count.

How many uses by conservatives, and how many by liberals?
I didn't count them, but Republicans were quoted as speaking up against the Tea Party Repubs.

moved to the correct topic.

I didn't count them, but Republicans were quoted as speaking up against the Tea Party Repubs.

Must be some different Chicago papers.

Chicagotribune.com | Search Results - chicagotribune.com (http://www.chicagotribune.com/search_results/?q=loony)

Search the Chicago Sun-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/search/index.html?search=loony&page_size=10&newSearchSession=1#/search/index.html?pageToView=1&pageSizeSearch=10&search=loony&sectionList=&searchOrderON=1)

Must be some different Chicago papers.

Nope. Same ones. To really get into the digital Trib, you have to have a subscription. And synonyms were used for "loony."

You don't have to have a subscription to search.

You don't have to have a subscription to search.
To search effectively, yes, you do. Even McCain said the Tea Partiers were disrupting the country.

To search effectively, yes, you do. Even McCain said the Tea Partiers were disrupting the country.

The word of the day was "loony," not "disrupting" and no, you don't. You can search, you just may not get to read the article.