We haven't spoken of what is happening in Egypt and we seem to have forgotten Syria. Why is that? Are these places of no interest just because americans don't have troops on the ground. Perhaps we need another benghazi to awaken you to the potential of Al qaeda gaining a fruitfull recruiting ground. I expect that is what will happen when the Muslim Brotherhood is banned once again

The more Muslim brotherhood troglodytes get killed... the better it is for Eqypt and the world.

What else is there to say ? What is happening there was predictable from the day the emperor made his speech to Cairo University when he invited members of the Ikhwan to sit in the front rows.

If that is so Tom I wonder why you haven't been reminding us of it. Nothing is predictable, who expects a bloodless coup, yes the violence afterwards is predictable but if everything is so predictable then there is no need for us to say anything in these threads

Smoothy you may be right on a certain level, less recruits for al qaeda but remember they think the same thing about your own people

K you want a reaction ? The Ikhwan have been marking Coptics homes ,churches and businesses with crosses for the purpose of the destruction of the structures and the extermination of the Copts .32 churches were destroyed and 19 severely damaged in less than a week .They marched nuns through streets as if they were prisoners of war.

Idiots like John McLame and Goober Lindsey Graham are siding with the Brotherhood... and the emperor is pretending he isn't taking sides .
The Copts did nothing to provoke this Kristallnacht like reaction . If the Morsi faction had retained power this extermination /cleansing would be state policy... and it will be if they are returned .The western press portrays the Brotherhood as the victims . Like in 1938 ,the press is largely mum about this atrocity .

What the copts did was side with the army in the coup and the muslim will retaliate it is their nature. Our government is about to change immigration rules to invite the copts to settle here. It would certainly be better than muslim immigrants. I have though for a long time we should allow the oppressed Christian minorities of Iraq, Syria and other Muslim nations to settle here

what the copts did was side with the army in the coup and the muslim will retaliate it is their nature.
Like I said "If the Morsi faction had retained power this extermination /cleansing would be state policy ". What choice do the Copts have in Egypt ?
When Muslims were the target of such cleansing in Bosnia ,the western world went to war in their defense.

Well they obviously have good lobbiests to get your military off its backside but then they don't need much excuse. You understand as I do that money talks and so does oil and unfortunately the muslims are sitting on most of the oil. No one would care if that wasn't so. The world wants to ignore what the muslims do to each other, but let "Christians" raise a hand against muslims and everyone gets up tight anyway the Balkans was right in NATO's backyard and couldn't be ignored

and unfortunately the muslims are sitting on most of the oil
Not quite , the US is sitting on known reserves that would make us independent if we made a policy decision to tap into it .

Why use yours when you can use someoneelse's, you have heard of strategic reserves, think of it as a strategic reserve

Nah ,time to tap into our resourses and stop funding jihadistan.

Why use yours when you can use someoneelse's, you have heard of strategic reserves, think of it as a strategic reserve

The plan is suck theirs dry first... then they can go back to farming sand...

The plan is suck theirs dry first ....then they can go back to farming sand.....

That's the idea, they use their wealth building follies, and when they are finished they will have nothing but monuments to folly

It is a foolish policy if that were true . We have the means to become energy independent now .

Independence for a short time, then what, and at what cost?

We have know reserved for 200 years . Do you really think that petrol will be the fuel 200 years from now ?

No we will have developed electric vehicles but maybe we will stop this mad whizzing around the country and use electronic communication. Whatever it all requires energy and the oil companies will drain the last drop

That's what they said about whale oil. I think you Aussies should be on the cutting edge of harvesting methane hydrate and developing it as an alternative .

Electric will cars will always be a fringe industry . It requires the harvesting of rare earth metals (often mined in some of the world's perpetual conflict zones like Congo and Central America )and you still need a carbon based power plant to charge the batteries .

Tom we have vast reserves of LPG but no wish to run our vehicles on "gas", we have vast reserves of coal and no wish to stop using it, we don't possess vast reserves of oil and so alternatives to the petroleum driven vehicles of today must be found. We have vast reserves of uranium and so should develop electric power and alternatives to today's battery technology

Tom we have vast reserves of LPG but no wish to run our vehicles on "gas", we have vast reserves of coal and no wish to stop using it, we don't possess vast reserves of oil and so alternatives to the petroleum driven vehicles of today must be found. We have vast reserves of uranium and so should develop electric power and alternatives to todays battery technology

I think you meant to say Natural gas... LPG is liquified Petroleum Gas (known as Propane) a byproduct of oil.

Gasoline can be produced from Natural gas or coal... just not as cheaply as from crude oil.

I think you meant to say Natural gas....LPG is liquified Petroleum Gas (known as Propane) a byproduct of oil.

Gasoline can be produced from Natural gas or coal...just not as cheaply as from crude oil.

We refer to it as LPG when used to drive vehicles we have both natural gas and coal seam gas anyway the point is there are parts of the world where vehicles are gas fueled but we have not adopted it

Tom we have vast reserves of LPG but no wish to run our vehicles on "gas",
Why not ? It burns clean .

We have vast reserves of uranium and so should develop electric power and alternatives to today's battery technology
Of course ,modern designed breeder reactors are the way to go .

Why not ? It burns clean

Convenience, you have to fill up more often and there have been some unfortunate incidents.


Of course ,modern designed breeder reactors are the way to go .

I agree but we are slow adopters atomic energy hasn't got beyond the experimental stage here, cost, nuclear has a higher long run cost than coal, and waste disposal, no one wants it in their back yard,besides we now have a million homes with solar, so no need for new power stations

convenience, you have to fill up more often and there have been some unfortunate incidents
That's where that vaunted infrastructure investment makes sense . There aren't many liguified gas autos here ,but in many places mass transit has converted .

and waste disposal, no one wants it in their back yard,
Yes we are plagued by NIMBYism too. The good news is that Fast Breeder reactors recycle the nuke waste ,and there is very little disposal.

We refer to it as LPG when used to drive vehicles we have both natural gas and coal seam gas anyway the point is there are parts of the world where vehicles are gas fueled but we have not adopted it

There is LPG and LNG. Most that run in industry are LPG based. LNG is also used in some cars but you have to have a place to get it as it is not a readily available as LPG. LNG can be made by compressing natural gas into a liquid. They use that same technique in home units to power cars as they refuel overnight.

Owebamas Brother linked to the Muslim Brotherhood.


NEW YORK – President Obama's half-brother in Kenya could cause the White House more headaches over new evidence linking him to the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt and establishing that controversial IRS supervisor Lois Lerner signed his tax-exempt approval letter.

Malik Obama's oversight of the Muslim Brotherhood's international investments is one reason for the Obama administration's support of the Muslim Brotherhood, according to an Egyptian report citing the vice president of the Supreme Constitutional Court of Egypt, Tehani al-Gebali


Obama's brother linked to Muslim Brotherhood (http://www.wnd.com/2013/08/obamas-brother-linked-to-muslim-brotherhood/)

Hehe.. WND.. that'll rot your brain.

Hehe..WND..that'll rot your brain.

NPR, CNN, MSNBC, CBS, ABC is what rots the brain...

"Get off my lawn!"

:D

I haven't finished yet... where did I put that roll of paper at? :)

Hehe..WND..that'll rot your brain.

No more than MSNBC will.

One name... John Edwards... how many of the experts of the left wing media were defending him and for how long after the National Enquirer broke the news of his fooling around?

At least Bill Clinton had the common sense to not knock them up.

One name........John Edwards......how many of the experts of the left wing media were defending him and for how long after the National Enquirer broke the news of his fooling around?

At least Bill Clinton had the common sense to not knock them up.

You think Bill Clinton had common sense, he debased the office of President, what a dill! At least Edwards did what he did as a private citizen

You think Bill Clinton had common sense, he debased the office of President, what a dill! at least Edwards did what he did as a private citizen
Oh trust me I didn't think he had much... not then.. not now. He just had more than Edwards had.

So Egypt is getting more violent and so is Syria, will they use gas in Egypt I wonder and could the gas used in Syria be part of Saddam's stockpile?

So Egypt is getting more violent and so is Syria, will they use gas in Egypt I wonder and could the gas used in Syria be part of Saddam's stockpile?

It is... we've always known much of Saddam's stuff crossed that border.

So you are saying Syria doesn't possess any WMD of its own Considering that Iraq was invaded because of the presence of these weapons can we expect invasion of Syria anytime soon or has the US retreated from its policy of pre-emptive strikes.

Both Egypt, and Syria refused to sign an international treaty to ban the use of Sarin gas. Both are known too have huge stockpiles. The question in Syria is who is using it and is it just to bring in others to help the rebels, and until Egypt gets its brotherhood problem solved there can be no peace. You better hope the Egyptian army succeeds.

I think they have the capability of succeeding, there are probably less arms floating around there and while the country is large the habitation is really concentrated and more capable of being controlled. The Muslim Brotherhood would need outside help to get something going that has any chance of success.

I don't think there is any question in Syria as to who is using it, it is being delivered by artillery. Assard is proving that Shiites are capable of anything

The question in Syria is who is using it and is it just to bring in others to help the rebels
Yup.. it smells like a false flag to me . Assad's forces are winning . Why would he risk international reaction with a chemical attack ?

Whose propganda are you sniffing, WMD requires organisation it requires government

1. The rebels had control of areas with stockpiles
2. the Syrian civil war is rapidly resembling the Spanish Civil war with all it's outside interventions .

Again ;what purpose would it serve for Assad to use chemical weapons against kids when he's winnning the war ? It would be a propaganda victory for the rebels however given the fact that a UN mission is arriving in the country .

The last time it was alleged ,the world took the report at face value even as the UN investigation team leader, Carla del Ponte in May stated there was evidence the rebels had used chemical agents, including Sarin gas. So the pattern has been established .

There are of course cut throats in the conflict who routinely attack civilians and children . For a time the al Nusra Front held 200 Kurds hostage at Tal Abyad and Ras al-Ain .There were reports of children being decapitated there before the Kurds retook the towns .

I wouldn't trust either side at the moment and sadly many more innocents will die, but rushing in and investing American lives is not the smart thing to do. It's a fact that the rebels are as capable of gassing people as Assad is.

Assad probibly did it... but I'm also leary of some of the rebel groups... at least one has ties to Al Queda and other anti-american groups.

The red line has been crossed twice now and American troops are massed on the Syrian /Jordanian border . What better wag the dog moment !

According to the Slimes ;It was not clear whether the team sent to Syria by the United Nations would be able to investigate the new reported attacks. The team arrived Sunday after months of negotiations with the Syrian government and is authorized to visit only three predetermined sites
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/world/middleeast/syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
So what we are supposed to believe is that while a UN team is on the ground investigating chemical attacks ,the Assad regime launched one .

Both sides are probably guilty of many atrocities.

the red line has been crossed twice now and American troops are massed on the Syrian /Jordanian border . What better wag the dog moment !

According to the Slimes ;It was not clear whether the team sent to Syria by the United Nations would be able to investigate the new reported attacks. The team arrived Sunday after months of negotiations with the Syrian government and is authorized to visit only three predetermined sites
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/22/world/middleeast/syria.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
So what we are supposed to believe is that while a UN team is on the ground investigating chemical attacks ,the Assad regime launched one .

We have to come to the point here, it doesn't matter who did it, fact is civilian populations are at risk and if that imagimary red line has been crossed than it is up to the world to deal with it and sanctions aren't going to cut it, someone has to get their hands dirty, seeing as Turkey is on one border sounds like a job for NATO

China and Russia should be at the forefront of this debacle, should have been long ago.

You think the Ruskies aren't ?

They got these from both Russia AND Saddam Hussein. The Easter Bunny didn't bring them.

China and Russia should be at the forefront of this debacle, should have been long ago.

They don't get their hands dirty, just have someoneelse do their work for them, no, if you want it to stop you will need to do something but you will need far more than a few hundred troops, as soon as you crossed the border every hand would be against you. Where are all those clandestine operators you are famous for or has Benghazi broke a spoke in their wheel

Here is the deal with Russia and China. Assad is Russia's ally . The Russians wish it weren't so ,but they have no choice. Their access to the Mediterranean is from the port of Tartus. They also have Iran on their border and would prefer that the Iranians don't stir up the huge Russian Muslim population. They would work with us for a transition away from Assad ,but they have as many concerns about radical jihadistan as we do and do not want to see them take over Syria. We on the other hand appear to be supporting radical jihadistan in Syria.

There was a time where they would've cooperated with us... then came Libya.

The emperor went to the UN and convinced the Russians and the Chinese to approve a NATO led 'no fly zone' for the purpose of protecting civilians against Q Daffy's air assets . They agreed under the condition that the NATO forces weren't used for regime change.
Well we know how that worked out .
The Russians and the Chinese will not cooperate with us in Syria.

No they won't cooperate because you aggressively pursue your ideology and in so doing push them out of their traditional markets, we were even with you and we were pushed out of our traditional markets. Yes if you take over Syria the Russians loose another cold war ally and of course that naval base. You need a proxy to do your bidding, Turkey has interests in stopping this conflict, convince them to act in their own and humanitarian interests

Erdogan has his own visions of an Ottoman restoration . Yeah he'd love for us to help him more than we've already done. (Libyan arms and jihadists funneled into Turkey to infiltrate into Syria. Since the jihadists have also attacked the Kurdish population in Syria ,a jihadist takeover would also served his purpose well on that front.
My position is that the only vested interest we have in Syria is the security of Israel.

My position is that the only vested interest we have in Syria is the security of Israel.

I can't see Syria returning to its former level for a long time, your interests lie in not allowing a vacuum to form in which a new jihadist state forms. Even though you don't like his politics, the government you have is better than the government you don't have. Iraq taught you that

That's because Obama wanted out before a non-Islamic government could be put in place... and we all know Obama is pro-everything Muslim and anti-anything Christian.

Some of us learned the lessons of doing things halfassed like Vietnam... but apparently Harvard graduates aren't intelligent enough to comprehend that lesson.

You don't elect political science graduates to the Presidency so don't expect geo-political savvy. In Syria the idea that a non-muslim government could result from what is happening is ridiculous, Assard is a Shiia, even backed by Hezbollah in Lebanon, the opposing forces appear to be Sunni but who knows. You didn't learn because your intervenion in Iraq was halfarsed, you got a military result and a civil disaster. I could imagine the same thing happening in Syria, Obama has so far had the good sense to avoid this

You don't elect political science graduates to the Presidency so don't expect geo-political savvy. In Syria the idea that a non-muslim government could result from what is happening is rediculous, Assard is a Shiia, even backed by Hezbollah in Lebanon, the opposing forces appear to be Sunni but who knows. You didn't learn because your intervenion in Iraq was halfarsed, you got a military result and a civil disaster. I could imagine the same thing happening in Syria, Obama has so far had the good sense to avoid this



You don't have to be a political science major.. or even a history major... Obama like me was finishing Jr. High and entering Sr. High when we puled out of Saigon... so we grew up watching it on the evening news...

Obama is only a few months older than me... so we were in the same grades in school. So I know what he would have seen as well at the time.

Iraq wasn't really halfassed... but it became so when Obama got elected telling the terrorists and insurgents that if they waited a little longer they could have everything to themselves.

Even though you don't like his politics, the government you have is better than the government you don't have. Iraq taught you that After the 2007 surge Iraq was well on it's way to becoming a peaceful nation... Sunni and the Shiite living relatively peacefully... no car bombs, no suicide bombers.
Then the emperor and Maliki bungled the details of treaty that would've left a modest US security presence . Now Maliki is holed up in the Green Zone as his country descends into the law of factions ,tribes ,and jihadist gang rule .

Now weren't you just saying that the US and NATO should lead an intervention against "the government you have " ? I thought I saw that . This isn't easy for me because I'd dearly love to see Assad and his Iranian patrons defeated . But what we are backing there is virtually the same people who attacked us on 9-11.

Exactly, politics makes strange bedfellows particularly when you take sides in an insurgency

One more point. Sarin gas has been used in the past as a terrorist weapon. It was used in the Japanese subway system and jihadists have been caught manufacturing it .
Iraq arrests five in 'al-Qaeda chemical weapons plot' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/al-qaeda/10094187/Iraq-arrests-five-in-al-Qaeda-chemical-weapons-plot.html)

In May, Turkish police arrested 12 suspected Al Nusra fighters. They were seized in southern Turkey. They were caught red-handed with a two gm cylinder of sarin nerve gas.
Turkey arrests 12 in raids on 'terrorist' organization | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/30/us-syria-crisis-turkey-idUSBRE94T0YO20130530)



But it is still speculation right now that it was sarin that was used. An alternate theory also not confirmed is that the jihadists used a mix of CL17 ,a chlorine concoction easily made from swimming pool chemicals.Jihadists used it in March in Syria.
Syria chemical weapons: finger pointed at jihadists - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9950036/Syria-chemical-weapons-finger-pointed-at-jihadists.html)

There will be nothing definitive unless an independent inspection of the site and autopsies are performed. But it is premature to make the claim that the Assad regime has pulled the trigger . Like I said ;I don't believe it credible because the regime has the most to lose if it is found to have used chemical weapons.

There will be nothing definitive unless an independent inspection of the site and autopsies are performed. But it is premature to make the claim that the Assad regime has pulled the trigger . Like I said ;I don't believe it credible because the regime has the most to lose if it is found to have used chemical weapons.

Whose side are you on this is nothing short of state sponsored terrorism, the attack was delivered by artillery, that is army not poorly armed rebels. You think there is some sort of plot here but what there is is defiance of the norms. We had independent inspectors stuffing about in Iraq for years and they found nothing, but the rumours persist and now Syria is doing what Saddam did

whose side are you on this is nothing short of state sponsored terrorism, the attack was delivered by artillery, that is army not poorly armed rebels. you think there is some sort of plot here but what there is is defiance of the norms. we had independent inspectors stuffing about in Iraq for years and they found nothing, but the rumours persist and now Syria is doing what Saddam did

You have no evidence of that except for some jihadist manufactured video. I would not put it past either side so I'll wait for someone to prove it one way or the other . All I see now is this clamor to rush in now .
I don't get you . We went to war because Saddam had WMD and used them... and you opposed it . Now ,with no more evidence than a jihadi made video you want us to rush in.
I'm taking a 'what's in America's best interest ' view of this . Until I'm sure that handing over the country to the so called rebels is in America's interest I'd rather we sit this one out.

We can see why the Messiah is backing the Musim brotherhood terrorists... family ties.

Obama's Brother's Non-Profit Tied to Genocidal Muslim Dictator and Terrorists | FrontPage Magazine (http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/obamas-brothers-non-profit-tied-to-genocidal-muslim-dictator-and-terrorists/)

We can see why the Messiah is backing the Musim brotherhood terrorists...family ties.
He is?

He is?

He (Obama) has been badmouthing the Egyptian Military... in favor of Morissi...

Even after the Morissi troglodytes have burned over 60 churches... and murdered how many Coptic Christians... over 100,000 CHristians have fled Egypt out for fear of being killed by the Muslim Brotherhood.

We said this was going to happen before they stole that election... and there was plenty of fraud that happened.

you have no evidence of that except for some jihadist manufactured video. I would not put it past either side so I'll wait for someone to prove it one way or the other . All I see now is this clamor to rush in now .
I don't get you . We went to war because Saddam had WMD and used them ...and you opposed it . Now ,with no more evidence than a jihadi made video you want us to rush in.
I'm taking a 'what's in America's best interest ' view of this . Until I'm sure that handing over the country to the so called rebels is in America's interest I'd rather we sit this one out.

You didn't go to war when Saddam used WMD, years later you used it as an excuse because you couldn't find his WMD. What did you get a broken nation which still is not stable. Look, the people who are at risk have to act, that is those in the surrounding countries but rest assured Tom if the rebels win those WMD will wind up on your doorstep, and your country is backing them. You are not sitting this one out, you are a guilty of state sponsored terrorism as anyone else

When we went to war against Saddam Hussein we had overwhelming support from the civilized nations of the world... your own included.

You had the support of the dupes, people who believed you wouldn't lie to them. Iraq war was unpopular here pursued by an americanophile who just happened to be in Washington on 9/11. We gained nothing from it, not even the hope of security. Look Smoothy we know these things are all about you, the rest of us don't count until you want someone to agree with you. You ultimately invaded Iraq, if you wait as long to intervene in Syria I expect the country will be devistated, fit only for the bulldozer

And while you guys analyze the middle east, which has been around longer than most civilized societies, Russia and China sit back and punk everyone else out. They always have. That's the true key to the middle east.

Russia and China don't really care either. Worst thing that was ever done was to give a veto to any member of the UN security council, it neutered the organisation.

If we have common sense we won't look for excuses to intervene and we won't supply either side with arms. It is nasty that hundreds of civilians have been killed and the act is reprehensible

And while you guys analyze the middle east, which has been around longer than most civilized societies, Russia and China sit back and punk everyone else out. They always have. That's the true key to the middle east.

I addressed them. We asked and got their cooperation for a no fly zone in Libya for civilian protection .Then we used the assets to help over throw Q Daffy . Neither of them will cooperate . China has been violating sanctions with Iran... so you know which side they fall on . Russia would not mind an Assad overthrow by the right faction. But they will not cooperate with us if we are supporting jihadistan. Other than that ,Syria is their only ally in the region (caveat... we have opened the door for the possibility of Russia getting it's foot in the door in Egypt thanks to America's implied support of the Brotherhood... yes WG ,unfortunately it's true) .

Russia and China don't really care either. Worst thing that was ever done was to give a veto to any member of the UN security council, it neutered the organisation.

If we have common sense we won't look for excuses to intervene and we won't supply either side with arms. It is nasty that hundreds of civilians have been killed and the act is reprehensible

China and Russia care a great deal, and its in there interest they have a friendly to the Syria, and even the Saudi's recognize that the Arab Spring could engulf them too... again. Be nice to just sit this one out, but Russia has a heavy investment in Syria already and it will grow even larger.


I addressed them. We asked and got their cooperation for a no fly zone in Libya for civilian protection .Then we used the assets to help over throw Q Daffy . Neither of them will cooperate . China has been violating sanctions with Iran ....so you know which side they fall on . Russia would not mind an Assad overthrow by the right faction. But they will not cooperate with us if we are supporting jihadistan. Other than that ,Syria is their only ally in the region (caveat ... we have opened the door for the possibility of Russia getting it's foot in the door in Egypt thanks to America's implied support of the Brotherhood....yes WG ,unfortunately it's true) .

There is no evidence we support the brotherhood, just the opposite, as we have called for their inclusion but not dominance. The important thing to remember I we have no leverage for influence over Egypt, I mean NONE, since our contributions to the military is minuscule and the gap would be made up easily, and quickly by oil producers of the region.

I see little difference in the brotherhoods agenda and actions since the fall of Mubarack, and the right wing fringe in America, with the only difference being the depth of their barbarism.

Egypt is a conflict we can stay out of too, since the military is the only viable institution operating in that country. Yes maybe it was a coup, so what, the people wanted it, and they got it. That's a good thing to me, and we should silently support it.

You can bet that Israel does and so do Egypt's regional partners. The whole idea of fundamentalist theocratic government is an absurd notion that will be rejected by the many, even here in America.

There is plenty of evidence that there is in fact bipartisan support for the Brotherhood. Lets start with the Repubics like John McCain who in 2012 went to Cairo before their elections to meet with Brotherhood reps but did not bother meeting with other more democratic opposition groups . McCain and Goober Lindsey Graham have called jailed Brotherhood leaders "political prisoners" ,and has called for their release .

He has insisted on calling the ouster of Morsi and the Brotherhood a "coup " and US Egypt Ambassador Anne Patterson has implied the same. In reality, the so called "coup" consisted of thirty million Egyptians taking to the streets to oust the Brotherhood. Patterson is trying to get the new Egyptian government to include members of the Brotherhood in any new cabinet.

Then how about the fact that the Obots made a very public announcement of aid to Egypt after the Morsi "election" ,but announced that they were suspending military aid after the military made their move.
Then consider more recently that State Dept rep Jen Psaki said the detention of Mubarack was an internal matter that the US had no position on .Then in the same presser called for the release of Morsi .
Does any of this offer smoking gun proof ? Nope .The emperor holds his cards close to the vest always giving himself enough ambiguity to deny any charge leveled . I guess what is most important is that on the streets of Cairo ,the perception is that the US supports the terrorist organization ,in the ranks of the military they feel betrayed by the US ;and those perceptions will dictate policy with any future Egyptian government . That is why Russia is making headway and will reestablish a relationship that they have not had with the country since the days of Nasser.

China and Russia care a great deal, and its in there interest they have a friendly to the Syria, and even the Saudi's recognize that the Arab Spring could engulf them too... again. Be nice to just sit this one out, but Russia has a heavy investment in Syria already and it will grow even larger.


So what, how does disadvantage you, do you loose a market for your goods and armaments? There is a lot of bleeding heart politics here just an opportunity to say to the other side you don't care and if action is taken it will be criticised


There is no evidence we support the brotherhood, just the opposite, as we have called for their inclusion but not dominance. The important thing to remember I we have no leverage for influence over Egypt, I mean NONE, since our contributions to the military is minuscule and the gap would be made up easily, and quickly by oil producers of the region.

I see little difference in the brotherhoods agenda and actions since the fall of Mubarack, and the right wing fringe in America, with the only difference being the depth of their barbarism.

Egypt is a conflict we can stay out of too, since the military is the only viable institution operating in that country. Yes maybe it was a coup, so what, the people wanted it, and they got it. That's a good thing to me, and we should silently support it.

You can bet that Israel does and so do Egypt's regional partners. The whole idea of fundamentalist theocratic government is an absurd notion that will be rejected by the many, even here in America.
Here we have it being said you don't support the brotherhood and yet you were giving military aid to brotherhood led government.It may be nothing to you but it is a lot to them, an endorsement. When will you get your head out of the proberbial and understand that your stuffing about has been at the bottom of most conflicts in the last hundred years.

The arabs don't think like you, they have no history of democracy, they expect to be ruled by a king whether he has the title or not. Frankily I'm not concerned about Israel they are strong enough to look after themselves

Until you understand the difference between the new Morisi government, and the military then you will never understand the nuance in how to deal with either. And deal you must so don't get your undies in a dither over news reports.

None of us is privy to the behind the scene machination of governments. Nor are we who express our opinions in a position to effect policy from the informed(?) officials we elected. The mistake of the righties is you guys only see things through the narrow microcosm of your own ideaology that restricts you from seeing the complexities of the differing faction and coalitions lust for change, power, and influence.

At least Clete you recognize that this is a region that has no clue what freedom is, how to get it, or maintain it when and if they do, and no leaders have emerged to show them. And you should understand that as an American, shaping the world is what we do, because we can or will and the pups on the side can yelp all they want to because we all know they have their own issue to deal with.

At least you know what side you should be on, no matter what your opinion of us is don't you? Never assume you know what our national interests even are, as your opinion is duly noted. We do seem to be everywhere, but you would be to if you could be, pursuing your own national interest.

Nothing wrong with that. Helps to get out of your own neighborhood to see how other live. Gives you a better perspective than the tabloids about who you are living with.

Tal when you get out of your own neighbourhood you have to do it with different eyes otherwise it is better to stay where you are doing your own thing. The only thing we try to shape is our own destiny and we ask others to respect that and not drag us into their conflicts. When I look at the news today the only thing I see about Egypt or Syria is politicians grandstanding, even this far away it's worth a political plug or two.

So Tal, go shape the world someplace else

Looks like the emperor is going to make a move against Syria... think he'll bother to try to get congressional approval ?

Nah.. the Messiah is above being questioned by mere moral men...

looks like the emperor is going to make a move against Syria .... think he'll bother to try to get congressional approval ?

I Think he will let the congress dither so like Pilate he can wash his hands while appearing caring and compassionate

I see the hawkes are busy, it is obvious that these are issues where political capital can be garnered. McCain wants action, without actually saying it he wants boots on the ground, missiles just don't cut it for him and even Krudd has got in on the act being included in US broadcasts beating up a response, of course, he has a both local and international objective as Australia becomes president of the UN Council and he has indicated which side we are on

JF Kerry ,the head of the agency that made the assertion that Benghazi was attacked because of a YouTube video ,makes the equally absurd pronouncement that the evidence was "undeniable" that the Syrian regime had used chemical agents.
What evidence is he talking about ? A video released by the rebels ? He also claims that Syria is destroying that evidence. Well if it was Sarin as is claimed ,then the gas will be easily identifiable in the victims ,in the soil ,in the buildings of Halabja .Now it's claimed that by delaying access to the site ,that the sarin breaks down... that is true . However , we are not talking about 19th century forensics . The sarin molecule ,isopropyl methylphosphonic acid (IMPA),remains for weeks after .
When UN inspectors attempted to go to the area they came under sniper fire . From which side we don't know .

Obama's Bluff | Stratfor (http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/obamas-bluff?utm_source=freelist-f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20130827&utm_term=Gweekly&utm_content=readmore&elq=2eb7d2d1356b468191b11d9829622cbb)

Obama is a horrible poker player... he tells everyone what cards he is holding.

Gas poisoning was also found in dead animals and the delivery system was also identified as being from the government. Bombs away. They were warned and the entire Arab world is outraged. I don't think Obama was bluffing.

I don't like Assad at all... nor do I like all the Rebels some of them are Hezbolah Terrorists... some of them AlQueada, and other Iranian... they have seized some of the governments armories.

Something is really fishy here. Like someone is setting someone else up to take the fall.

Its not like Assad said "I did it...its my country , get stuffed".

Particularly sinc ethese claims are coming from the same people that claimed for months Benghazi was about some video nobody ever saw... and have been stonewalling and threatening witnesses for the last year.

There are at least 7 factions that make up the rebels, some are not so nice.

There are at least 7 factions that make up the rebels, some are not so nice.

"Not so nice" might be the understatement of the year. At best some of them are no better than Assad... and some are far worse.

Getting rid of Assad might put Muslim Brotherhood backed terrorists in power... or Iranian Puppets... or Al Queada backed terrorists, or Hesbolah terrorists.

All of them worse than Assad.

I wouldn't be pitching a tent around any military installation, runway, or command bunker right now. I wouldn't want to be a general either.

and the delivery system was also identified as being from the government.

Link ? That's news to me

The arabs are outraged, the americans are outraged the europeans are outraged, with all this rage we are set for another war where no one will win and who gains, Al Qaeda and terrorists. No matter who pulled the trigger no one gains anything but death

Something is really fishy here. Like someone is setting someone else up to take the fall.

That's my assumption. What does Assad gain by backing the emperor into a corner ? The idiot created his red line and now it allegedly has been crossed. Until someone can provide solid proof then I have to assume this is a false flag operation.

What does he gain, he has just called Obama out, it's Saddam all over again, come and get me

IDF claims to have intercepted communications during the attack tying it to the Syrian government (http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/25/israeli-intelligence-ties-syrian-gas-attack-to-assad/).

what does he gain, he has just called Obama out, it's Saddam all over again, come and get me

And as Stratfor points out ,if the fool doesn't respond ,then he loses credibility against nations like Iran and the NORKS... great ! We have no national interest involved ;but now we have the prestige and credibiltiy of the emperor on the line.
I wonder what the Nobel Committee says now ?

IDF claims to have intercepted communications during the attack tying it to the Syrian government (http://dailycaller.com/2013/08/25/israeli-intelligence-ties-syrian-gas-attack-to-assad/).

I smell a rat . The Syrian /Iranian alliance represents and existential threat to the state of Israel . A jihadists failed state is an inconvenience they have dealt with since their birth . I can't stop thinking that twice in recent weeks the jihadists were caught with sarin... once in an Iraq lab. and once in Turkey. Assad is as evil as they come ;but he is no fool ;and a chemical attack that would surely end in his ouster just doesn't make sense.

Is his name Kerry, the guy who ran for president on the "Bush lied" ticket?

Syria to Secretary of State John Kerry: You're lying (http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/aug/27/syria-secretary-state-john-kerry-youre-lying/?utm_source=feedly)

I still want to know how Kerry got out of Vietnam long before his one year tour was over...

It does make sense if his Russian protectors have promised more support. But my understanding so far is they can trace the delivery system back to government armaments. Maybe his own officers are framing him.

It does make sense if his Russian protectors have promised more support. But my understanding so far is they can trace the delivery system back to government armaments. Maybe his own officers are framing him.

Doesn't even have to be them... Rebles have captured various Government armouries and weapons caches...

There is no possible way to identify WHICH of them they originated from. Because at one time they were ALL under government control.

Kerry is an imbicile . The ironic thing is that one of his alleged credentials was his ability to meet with bad a$$es like Assad ,and negotiate.
Assad saw how American... oops I mean Nato airpower ,tipped the balance in the Libyan Civil War. So then why would he do the one thing that would almost force the emperor to take similar action against him ? And let's not forget that in the spring , UN. Independent International Commission of Inquiry on Syria member Carla Del Ponte fingered the FSA for doing a chemical attack.

It does make sense if his Russian protectors have promised more support. But my understanding so far is they can trace the delivery system back to government armaments. Maybe his own officers are framing him.

No one has had access to the area ,so how did they "trace " it back to Syrian armaments ?

We don't know everything they know, nor do reporters. But being denied access by the government forces to affected areas is compelling

NBC Nightly News with Brian Williams: Nerve Gas Attack in Syria? - Bing Videos (http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/nerve-gas-attack-in-syria/17wwufm9p)

Max Fisher , writing in the Washington Compost ,says we don't have to worry about the emperor getting us deeply involved in the Syrian civil war. According to Fisher ,

Every signal so far suggests the United States is planning something very limited, most likely a series of finite cruise missile strikes against Syrian government infrastructure, perhaps some aircraft strikes, as well. One criticism you will hear over and over is that this sort of response is unlikely to change the course of the war in Syria, which President Bashar al-Assad appears to be slowly winning. And that's correct. But it also misses the point.


If the Obama administration does go through with these strikes, then its goal, as both Kerry and White House press secretary Jay Carney made clear, is not to shape the course of the war or force out Assad. Its goal is to punish the Assad regime for using chemical weapons, both as a deterrent against using then again and as a warning to any future military leaders that they'd better not use them, either.
Obama wants to punish Assad, not win the Syrian civil war (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/08/26/obama-wants-to-punish-assad-not-win-the-syrian-civil-war/)
So in other words we will fire missiles into Syria , with no other aim than to send a message to Assad ,potentially killing many of the civilians we are claiming to protect in the process ;possibly more than were killed in the cw attack. And JF Kerry Kerry calls the Syrian the use of the cw a "moral obscenity" ? Dude !

What if our military targets his military infrastructure and obliterates his capabilities? The pundits have no credibility, or responsibility here, just the president. You may not be a fan, many or not but at some point we still have to let him be president despite the noise from the peanut gallery.

I think he will ignore the pundit any way, and well he should on this one.

What if our military targets his military infrastructure and obliterates his capabilities? The pundits have no credibility, or responsibility here, just the president. You may not be a fan, many or not but at some point we still have to let him be president despite the noise from the peanut gallery.

I think he will ignore the pundit any way, and well he should on this one.

With what ? Long range tomahawks and bombers ? Ok it's possible that we turn the tide in the civil war and hand jihadistan a victory . Then what ? What Russian commitment were you talking about ? I though you said Assad became emboldened because of their implied backing .

As I've said many times ;no one will be happier than I if Assad is reduced to pink mist . But when we had a chance to make a difference ;we chose to give our support to AQ jihadists instead of legit Syrian rebels .
Now I see no vested US interest in this conflict... except to recover some credibility on the world stage for the emperor.

And as far as ignoring... I also have no doubt he will ignore the constitutional authority of congress to declare war.

That's the problem Tom, we have a hard time telling who is who when they all have a common foe. That doesn't mean different factions have the same agenda, both short and long term. I have no doubt that even the rebels don't always know who is behind the scene pulling the strings.

Bet Moscow is not that knowledgeable either but back Assad. Let's not forget Iran. A bigger player than has been let on.

Obamas overinflated ego is about to cause a LOT of trouble for everyone... and not just the USA this time.