So you're also OK the corporate sponsorship of your politicians?

Not the same thing.. it works out good for the schools and the corporations.. schools get computers... Apple gets future clientele . Schools get additional funding ,corporations get an educated work force .

not the same thing .Oh but it is very similar. This is why you guys are in the bind you are.

Nonsense this is not a donation for writing favorable laws . This is an investment in the future .The only quid pro quo I see from the deal is that occasionally the corporation gets naming rights .

So you're also ok the corporate sponsorship of your politicians?


not the same thing .. it works out good for the schools and the corporations.. schools get computers ....Apple gets future clientele . Schools get additional funding ,corporations get an educated work force .

Its exactly the same thing except the cost of doing business by buying politicians doesn't cover poverty and the working poor. They have no money, and no power.

Its no accident, its intentional. It's the second oldest game in history, buying power, and influence and ignoring the great unwashed masses.

Yeah like Apple giving away all those computers to schools.. your contempt clouds your mind.

The exception to the rule, but he also puts half his wealth into charities through foundations he runs and directs, and benefits financially from, and has encouraged others to do the same with their wealth.

Its called philanthropy and its rather profitable at tax time.

like Apple giving away all those computers to schoolsWait a minute, you think it's just out of the goodness of their hearts?

Wait a minute, you think it's just out of the goodness of their hearts?

I can't speak for tom but probably not entirely, I believe he said something about getting future customers. But why does it matter if everyone benefits?

As opposed to the left that loves to be benevolent and philanthropic with other people's money .

Opm... hmmmmm!

as opposed to the left that loves to be benevolent and philanthropic with other people's moneyWhat does that have to do with the discussion?

What does that have to do with the discussion?

It was a direct answer to your question.

So have we come to agreement that corporations can get their taxes zeroed if the finance the entire education system?

Corporations should not be taxed as it means that they pass on the price to the consumers. Economists recognize that the distribution of the burden of such taxation falls ultimately on individuals and not on corporations.

Besides they aren't people right ? How can they pay taxes if they are not people ?

That's not what SCOTUS said, and you know it. And they can be taxed, and you know that too, so keep it real.

Geez why are you balking at a solution that benefits all of us?

There is enough incentive for government and business to reach out and come to an agreement . As you see ;the opposition to this does not come from conservatives.

No such plan is before the congress, if you know of one that us liberals oppose link it please.

It is not a Federal issue. States and local governments should be making their deals with businesses because the Federal government has no constitutional mandate to get involved in education. Indeed ;where these deals are in process ,it was local goverments that made their independent deals .

I can go with such state experiments, but am seeing glitches to be solved as I pointed out in Louisiana and funding battles with their own state courts. So far not many have reached out to corporate financing, and are just shifting money from state budgets.

Again if you know different please provide some links.

Here's a few that only scratch the surface of the potential

How Corporations Are Helping To Solve The Education Crisis | Co.Exist | ideas + impact (http://www.fastcoexist.com/1679529/how-corporations-are-helping-to-solve-the-education-crisis)

Corporate-sponsorship program may ease school fund raising (http://old.post-gazette.com/businessnews/20010829marketing0829bnp2.asp)

Schools earning big bucks from corporate sponsors | Nashville City Paper (http://nashvillecitypaper.com/content/city-news/schools-earning-big-bucks-corporate-sponsors)

https://www.fairviewhs.org/sites/band/pages/corporate-sponsorship

Will Corporate Sponsors Help Save Education? | KPBS.org (http://www.kpbs.org/news/2009/nov/24/will-corporate-sponsors-help-save-education/)

https://corporate.target.com/corporate-responsibility/education

Corporations donate millions for public school programs [Mackinac Center] (http://www.educationreport.org/3749)

San Francisco Education Fund (http://www.sfedfund.org/getinvolved/ways_corporategiving.php)

there is enough incentive for government and business to reach out and come to an agreement . As you see ;the opposition to this does not come from conservatives.


Exactly. Makes good sense to me.

Brain washing!

Brain washing!

Explain. Got links?

Remember where Holder's DOJ sued Louisiana (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3543806-post219.html) over their school voucher program? Well they graciously dropped their suit. Sort of (http://gov.louisiana.gov/index.cfm?md=newsroom&tmp=detail&catID=2&articleID=4338). Now they just want to tie it up in red tape and regulations instead.


BATON ROUGE – In a ruling today regarding a motion to intervene in the suit against the Louisiana Scholarship Program, United States District Court Judge Ivan Lemelle stated the Department of Justice has abandoned its previous request that the Court permanently stop the scholarship program. Governor Jindal said that the Department of Justice abandoning its attempt to halt the scholarship program is a victory, but he warned that the Department of Justice's new strategy could "red tape and regulate the program to death."

Governor Jindal said, “We are pleased that the Obama Administration has given up its attempt to end the Louisiana Scholarship Program with this absurd lawsuit. It is great the Department of Justice has realized, at least for the time being, it has no authority to end equal opportunity of education for Louisiana children.

“However, we will continue to fight, at every step, the Department of Justice’s new Washington strategy to red tape and regulate the program to death.

“The Department of Justice’s new position is that it wants bureaucrats in Washington to have the authority to decide where Louisiana children get an education.

“The centerpiece of the Department of Justice's 'process' is a requirement that the state may not tell parents, for 45 days, that their child has been awarded a scholarship while the department decides whether to object to the scholarship award. The obvious purpose of this gag order would be to prevent parents from learning that the Department of Justice might try to take their child’s scholarship away if it decides that the child is the wrong race.

“The updated Department of Justice request reeks of federal government intrusion that would put a tremendous burden on the state, along with parents and teachers who want to participate in school choice.”

That's right, poor black children in Louisiana will have a chance and a choice to get out of a failing school over Holder's dead body!

Remember where Holder's DOJ sued Louisiana (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3543806-post219.html) over their school voucher program? Well they graciously dropped their suit. Sort of (http://gov.louisiana.gov/index.cfm?md=newsroom&tmp=detail&catID=2&articleID=4338). Now they just want to tie it up in red tape and regulations instead.


That's right, poor black children in Louisiana will have a chance and a choice to get out of a failing school over Holder's dead body!


Are you sure that doesn't work the other way around

are you sure that doesn't work the other way around

I know what I said.

I know what I said.


Yes I saw your emphasis, but it may just as easily mean they wanted to make sure that white students didn't receive a greater number of scholarships than their numbers warranted

The Louisiana system was designed to benefit minority students. So of course the Obots oppose it . Why?. because the teacher's unions don't like it.

Oh come on, the charter schools they were sending some of those scholarship kids to were underperforming. Just ask the students how old the earth is and you get the idea. Look up performance of charter schools in Louisiana and you will see what I mean.

I know facts mean nothing when a good bash is to be had by the wingers.

Oh come on, the charter schools they were sending some of those scholarship kids to were underperforming. Just ask the students how old the earth is and you get the idea. Look up performance of charter schools in Louisiana and you will see what I mean.

I know facts mean nothing when a good bash is to be had by the wingers.

In other words, you're idea of choice doesn't extend to things like healthcare and education.

Choice is great based on facts and not just feelings, and why should the feds fund a program in states that go to private for profit corporations that don't teach the students enough to further their education. There have been certification and performance issues for more than 3 years at some of these schools, Speech.

All I said was look it up.

Choice is great based on facts and not just feelings, and why should the feds fund a program in states that go to private for profit corporations that don't teach the students enough to further their education. There have been certification and performance issues for more than 3 years at some of these schools, Speech.

All I said was look it up.

And all I'm saying is what's it to you if someone dares choose something besides public education?

Oh come on, the charter schools they were sending some of those scholarship kids to were underperforming. Just ask the students how old the earth is and you get the idea. Look up performance of charter schools in Louisiana and you will see what I mean.

I know facts mean nothing when a good bash is to be had by the wingers.

Im not sure what your complaining about ? You don't like it when they educate children of color ?

Louisiana BAEO | Black Alliance for Educational Options (http://louisiana.baeo.org/?ns_ref=11&id=6157)

BAEO Applauds CREDO Study on Performance of Charter Schools in Louisiana


The Black Alliance for Educational Options (BAEO) was pleased to learn of the findings of the Charter School Performance in Louisiana study released today by the Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO) showing that Black students, in particular Black students from low-income families, perform better in charter schools than their counterparts in traditional public schools (TPS).

Treating poor kids as a commodity is not an option. Some do, and its documented. Look it up!!!

Not saying all private schools are bad, but clearly some are worse than others, and its NOT confined to just Louisiana. And what do you do with the kids who don't get those scholarships?

And what do you do with the kids who don't get those scholarships? [/B]

That part is obvious. You use it as a wake up call and since the student pool is now lower you can make up the difference by smaller class sizes and more emphisis on education. You know. The old fashioned way when going to school actually meant getting an education and not just some social experiment.

Choice is great based on facts and not just feelings, and why should the feds fund a program in states that go to private for profit corporations that don't teach the students enough to further their education. There have been certification and performance issues for more than 3 years at some of these schools, Speech.

All I said was look it up.

And all I'm saying is what's it to you if someone dares choose something besides public education?

That part is obvious. You use it as a wake up call and since the student pool is now lower you can make up the difference by smaller class sizes and more emphisis on education. You know. The old fashioned way when going to school actually meant getting an education and not just some social experiment.

While I appreciate the link to real data, bears out what I have been saying, some charters are doing a great job, some are not. I was never against the ones with good result and have said so more than a few times, but your answer to the ones who cannot qualify for such choices cdad, is both narrow minded, and naïve, and fails miserably to recognize factors that go beyond just a social experiment. Its more inflicted social erosion than you would admit too.

I might have missed it but how many of those charter kids enrolling colleges? I will review it again.


And all I'm saying is what's it to you if someone dares choose something besides public education?

Because Speech, throwing away those that cannot have that choice is totally unacceptable. Public schools still should be about the kids whatever the challenge. Maybe that will change if they build more GREAT performing charter schools, but for now public schools still have to meet needs of kids.

While I appreciate the link to real data, bears out what I have been saying, some charters are doing a great job, some are not. I was never against the ones with good result and have said so more than a few times, but your answer to the ones who cannot qualify for such choices cdad, is both narrow minded, and naïve, and fails miserably to recognize factors that go beyond just a social experiment. Its more inflicted social erosion than you would admit too.

I might have missed it but how many of those charter kids enrolling colleges? I will review it again.



Because Speech, throwing away those that cannot have that choice is totally unacceptable. Public schools still should be about the kids whatever the challenge. Maybe that will change if they build more GREAT performing charter schools, but for now public schools still have to meet needs of kids.

I do understand that the system is broken. What I dont agree with is the methods being used today to correct it. It seems that instead of monitoring the bell curve and pushing students to the highest points what I percieve is they mostly shoot for the low spots and hold back the achievers.

After all this atitude of fairness is a self created utopia. Life itself isnt fair. Im not saying to leave children behind. Im saying give them the proper tools to achieve thier highest point. That may or may not be college. But give them skills to last a lifetime while you have thier attention.

Programs like basic math - learning to handle finances and how to balance a checkbook, or home economics were truely valuable for learning something that you can take with you through life. Removing programs like valdadictorian for those that do rise up is just sad.

As far as your questions on college graduation goes Here is some light reading when you have time.

Children's Aid College Prep Charter School Enrollment Application 2013-2014 | childrensaidcollegeprep (http://childrensaidcollegeprep.org/childrens-aid-college-prep-charter-school-enrollment-application-2013-2014)

When charter schools fail, what happens to the kids? | Hechinger Report (http://hechingerreport.org/content/when-charter-schools-fail-what-happens-to-the-kids_7504/)

'No Excuses' Kids Go to College : Education Next (http://educationnext.org/no-excuses-kids-go-to-college/)

I dont have all the answers but what I see now flat out scares me. We are falling further behind the rest of the world and not just as a social norm but also the educational processes that we have ongoing.

I dont have all the answers but what I see now flat out scares me. We are falling further behind the rest of the world and not just as a social norm but also the educational processes that we have ongoing.
And the poorly and badly educated generation is teaching the next generation, so we slowly move down the scale.

And the poorly and badly educated generation is teaching the next generation, so we slowly move down the scale.

yes the golden age is in the past now

so we slowly move down the scale.

yes the golden age is in the past now
Why are we? And what's the fix?

My husband and I were discussing the "why" this evening. We remember memorizing tons of stuff including times tables, poetry, Bible verses, quotations. We remember doing homework appropriate to the lessons taught during the school day. We remember having handwriting and geography and art and music class. We remember recess and gym class and lunch periods, eating in the classroom with our teacher. We remember one standardized test every spring. Where did that all go?

Why are we? And what's the fix?

My husband and I were discussing the "why" this evening. We remember memorizing tons of stuff including times tables, poetry, Bible verses, quotations. We remember doing homework appropriate to the lessons taught during the school day. We remember having handwriting and geography and art and music class. We remember recess and gym class and lunch periods, eating in the classroom with our teacher. We remember one standardized test every spring. Where did that all go?

to coin an old saying blown in the wind

Someone devised a theory that we should stroke the egos of the young and make them feel self important, such self important individuals came to know that everything will be provided and you don't need to know anything

to coin an old saying blown in the wind

Someone devised a theory that we should stroke the egos of the young and make them feel self important, such self important individuals came to know that everything will be provided and you don't need to know anything
Yup. And instead of bigger school cranking out grads like they're on an assembly line, let's go back to small schools, making for more teaching jobs (after we train the teachers and choose them well) and better individualized and group instruction. But then, back in my day, bullying was uncommon, no one had peanut allergies, and girls didn't get pregnant until they were married women. I guess I'm unrealistic.

not at all in some societies that is still so, it requires discipline, the other ingredient that is missing

Because Speech, throwing away those that cannot have that choice is totally unacceptable. Public schools still should be about the kids whatever the challenge. Maybe that will change if they build more GREAT performing charter schools, but for now public schools still have to meet needs of kids.

You didn't really just say something to me about "throwing away" kids. Irony alert.

Tal, the answer is certainly not forcing at risk children to stay in a bad school when they have a chance at something better.

Why are we? And what's the fix?

My husband and I were discussing the "why" this evening. We remember memorizing tons of stuff including times tables, poetry, Bible verses, quotations. We remember doing homework appropriate to the lessons taught during the school day. We remember having handwriting and geography and art and music class. We remember recess and gym class and lunch periods, eating in the classroom with our teacher. We remember one standardized test every spring. Where did that all go?

The latest slide down the ladder is called "Common Core " indoctination (from section 'Possessive Nouns'):

5. The commands of government officials must be obeyed by all.
Government officials' commands must be obeyed by all.


6. The wants of an individual are less important than the well-being of the nation.
An individual's wants are less important than the nation's well-being.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/interactive/2013/11/06/hold-flag-high-student-worksheet/

The latest slide down the ladder is called "Common Core " indoctination (from section 'Possessive Nouns'):

http://www.foxnews.com/us/interactive/2013/11/06/hold-flag-high-student-worksheet/

Using grammar to indoctrinate. Hey, while we're teaching them how to construct a sentence let's just fill their heads with progressive muck.

Where did Fox get that slideshow? Who uses it in schools?
Is it part of a news report, if so where is it?

Where did Fox get that slideshow? Who uses it in schools?
Is it part of a news report, if so where is it?

It looks like there is a small copyright on the left hand side of the first page. It looks like it came from Pearson Education Inc.

You might want to check there for more information but they seem to be the origination point.

But who actually uses that in any schools?

Common Core State Standards Initiative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Core_State_Standards_Initiative)

it's one of those standardized tests people love.

But who actually uses that in any schools?

Im not sure who is using it you would have to refer to the originator of the documents. But if you go to the last page it refers to a dvd of some sort and from the symbols it seems to be either home schoolers or some part of a education extension program.

"But Pearson Education tells Fox News that this worksheet was copyrighted in 2007 and has been in use ever since—predating Common Core. And Pearson is far from the only curriculum vendor out there. Besides, controversy over politicized education started far before Common Core came along to cause a fuss."

I don't agree with that content either.

Besides, controversy over politicized education started far before Common Core came along to cause a fuss.
Indeed ,liberal indoctination was certainly part of the curriculum when I was going through the public education system. Thankfully in my formative years the Catholics taught some of the basal and basic fact based education and methods that WG described .
Yes we had to memorize . The concepts behind the facts came later .

Funny how you lament it but usually when you hold a captain of industry in high regard they invariably have all had the same education. It always astounds me how impotent conservatives are at making any changes to the US educational system that they abhor so much.

you see the howling at the moon reaction by the 'progressives' when it's tried

Those with money have greater value than those without. They are shills for the rich few, and too bad for the have not's. But the conundrum they find themselves in is all those poor people in their conservative enclaves hate the largess of the rich too, but is the voter base they need most.

They holler loudly about liberal education, but look at what they have done with their conservative education in parts of the country they have controlled for decades. The southern states are the poorest in the country, even when the money was flowing.

They blame everyone but themselves.

America's Poorest States: 24/7 Wall St. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/22/americas-poorest-states-2_n_1904513.html#slide=more252177)

List of lowest-income counties in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowest-income_counties_in_the_United_States)

How many links do you want, I have a bunch from various sources. Speaking of a$$s, have you checked what comes out of yours?

America's Poorest States: 24/7 Wall St. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/22/americas-poorest-states-2_n_1904513.html#slide=more252177)

List of lowest-income counties in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lowest-income_counties_in_the_United_States)

How many links do you want, I have a bunch from various sources. Speaking of a$$s, have you checked what comes out of yours?

How exactly is this alleged conservative education in the south the root cause? That would be the point you need to back up.

How is a "liberal" education the cause of any issues you mention? How was that proven?

How is a "liberal" education the cause of any issues you mention? How was that proven?

I'm not the one linking education to the plight of Americans so I have nothing to prove. He did and he does have something to prove. Try and keep up.

I knew public education was a joke but that's pathetic, and yes I lay most of the blame on the stranglehold liberals have on public education
Seems you did. It's the whole premise of your thread.

There's no data there that shows that the education is "liberal" nor that it is the cause of the low scores. Did I miss something?

They're your base, your territory, you explain why they are so poor.

They're your base, your territory, you explain why they are so poor.

My friend, I don't ask you to back up arguments you didn't make, that's silly. You made the connection, time to back it up or retract.


They holler loudly about liberal education, but look at what they have done with their conservative education in parts of the country they have controlled for decades. The southern states are the poorest in the country, even when the money was flowing.

While Tal is looking for connections to how conservative education in the south makes people poor, is like to point out that one of the president's favorite programs to help poor children doesn't work. A study released by HHS conveniently after the election shows Pre-K and Head Start to be failures.

New Evidence Raises Doubts on Obama's Preschool For All (http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/brown-center-chalkboard/posts/2013/11/20-evidence-raises-doubts-about-obamas-preschool-for-all-whitehurst)

In fact, children who did not attend pre-k generally fared better. So naturally what does the president who wants "effective" programs for poor children do after this study? Call for more of it, to which a dutiful Congress proposed last week, universal pre-k.

Why should we keep pouring money into programs that don't work and in fact may cause more harm than good? I'm guessing it's part of that your children don't belong to you thing. Gotta get 'em out of the parental sphere and get a "head start" on that indoctrination?

the younger they are ,the easier to indoctrinate and program.
Barack Hussein Obama Mmm Mmm Mmm - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ty7WU872Lk)

the younger they are ,the easier to indoctrinate and program.
Barack Hussein Obama Mmm Mmm Mmm - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ty7WU872Lk)

I must obey government officials at all times.

Thanks Speech that was a good link you provided even if I disagree with the assessment of the data presented. I want to make clear my stand on the relationship between long term poverty, and education.

Poverty breeds less opportunities and options to learn, as fiscal constraints and the effect thereof will always affect the children in the most pronounced ways. Even a smart kid has to go home to the condition of their household realities, which may, I believe have more impact than the 8 hours they spend at school. Public Schools have budgetary constraints more according to the conditions of where their funding comes from, and for fact reduced funds from public to private puts the students who don't get accepted into these charter schools at clear disadvantage that has yet to be addressed.

The question becomes should the government shift the costs of supporting charter schools over public for savings and outcomes? If they do they better get more charter schools up and running for those left behind through no fault of their own, basically the luck of the draw. All kids NEED the opportunity to grow and learn, not just the ones who win the lottery.

Kids should never be the losers in this, even if their communities cannot keep up with the costs of fixing roofs and gyms in an aging infrastructure. In a country that can build prisons and not schools ask yourself what's wrong with that picture. No money, no opportunity, and that's the simple fact. When we had 50,000 factories for middle class wages, people could work for themselves, but those factories are gone, and haven't been replaced for ordinary blue collar folks.

You know the ones who go to work at 18, and spend a lifetime raising families to send to college. Those people are dying, Just as the middle class wages have died, and what's left is Walmarts and McDonalds. Minimum wage is not conducive to providing opportunity, hell, the government has to subsidize those workers so they can eat AND pay rent or do anything else for that matter.

That's why I relate poverty to lack of opportunities, and can only hope you see that social gains can only come from increased opportunities and options for poor people. Sorry to be so long winded, just to say MORE good paying jobs is the answer. Look around. There is more than enough work to do.

I just have to ask what have all these government programs done to help poor people? The assessment I gave is by a guy who is on your side in this and he has a point that should be heeded if people trulty want the best for our children.


Unfortunately, supporters of Preschool for All, including some academics who are way out in front of what the evidence says and know it, have turned a blind eye to the mixed and conflicting nature of research findings on the impact of pre-k for four-year-olds. Instead, they highlight positive long term outcomes of two boutique programs from 40-50 years ago that served a couple of hundred children. And they appeal to recent research with serious methodological flaws that purports to demonstrate that district preschool programs in places such as Tulsa and the Abbott districts in New Jersey are effective. Ignored, or explained away, are the results from the National Head Start Impact Study (a large randomized trial), which found no differences in elementary school outcomes between children who had vs. had not attended Head Start as four-year-olds. They also ignore research showing negative impacts on children who receive child care supported through the federal child development block grant program, as well as evidence that the universal pre-k programs in Georgia and Oklahoma, which are closest to what the Obama administration has proposed, have had , at best, only small impacts on later academic achievement.

His money line, "Poor children deserve effective programs, not just programs that are well-intentioned."

Doesn't matter whose side he is own. I DISAGREE, for the reasons given. Poverty breeds less opportunities and options to learn

How does a well-intentioned program that doesn't work ease poverty?

Doesn't matter whose side he is own. I DISAGREE, for the reasons given. Poverty breeds less opportunities and options to learn

So let me make sure Im understanding what your saying. Poverty means that the children can't get an education even if schooled properly? I know that isnt true. I also know that a lot of poverty is attitude based and not education based. Lets face it. The social programs are the new slave masters. When a woman can pop out a few children and make the equivilent of 60K a year by not doing nothing OR get up off the couch and bust thier rump to make 45K unassisted. Where is there real choice?

Why does your side insist that throwing money at something will always solve the problem ? Why not focus on getting these poor people the hand up they need rather then spoon feeding them pablum to win an election. Havent you beat them enough with your rhetoric.

Why not focus on getting these poor people the hand up they need
Please give details.

Lack of middle class jobs is the root cause of the problem. I can fully accept that everyone isn't college material, but subjugation to low wages shouldn't be a punishment.

Why should tax payers have to subsides wages for multi billion dollar corporations? What's wrong with that picture?

Please give details.

It would be on a needs basis even going so far as to educate the parents so they can participate in helping the child. Education isnt rocket science but you do have to ensure that the person being taught actually understands. In many schools today they skip over that part. And if the parent at home isnt up to speed then the education suffers. Education alone will not pull them out they have much to accomplish on thier own. It can be done.

Why should tax payers have to subsides wages for multi billion dollar corporations? What's wrong with that picture?

If it is the one that gets them off the welfare train and allows them to get the push that they need then Im all for it.

What if the single mom with two kids has to work? Help with transportation after work? Baby sitters? A suit for an interview? Are those legit needs?

Your understanding of what a poor person needs is obvious.

Lack of middle class jobs is the root cause of the problem. I can fully accept that everyone isn't college material, but subjugation to low wages shouldn't be a punishment.

Why should tax payers have to subsides wages for multi billion dollar corporations? What's wrong with that picture?

Why should taxpayers have to subsidize deadbeats?

Your understanding of what a poor person needs is obvious.

No it isn't tal, they have no understanding, they haven't walked that road

What if the single mom with two kids has to work? Help with transportation after work? Baby sitters? A suit for an interview? Are those legit needs?

Your understanding of what a poor person needs is obvious.

Why so many single moms?

It would be on a needs basis even going so far as to educate the parents so they can participate in helping the child. Education isnt rocket science but you do have to ensure that the person being taught actually understands. In many schools today they skip over that part. And if the parent at home isnt up to speed then the education suffers. Education alone will not pull them out they have much to accomplish on thier own. It can be done.
But now the kids don't get a good start at home in being read to, learning to build a block tower, helping Mom grocery shop, doing chores (even toddlers can help), printing letters and drawing pictures to send to Grandma, helping with simple jobs cooking and baking, etc. Parents don't have "time" for such nonsense. Yet that's all part of the learning process and gets the kids ready for school and socializing. (I taught Pre-K for three years. Ask me anything about what kids that age don't know.) We need to teach new parents how to parent (libraries try to do that).

And I really want to be in charge of American education. We need to hire teachers who know what the heck they are doing -- know how to speak well and write well and teach well. Standards need to get tougher. If they don't make the cut, they are OUT! The arrangement/schedule of the school day needs help, which means the curriculum needs help.

Class size needs to be smaller (job creation) so each child gets the help and instruction he needs. I attended a three-room country school with three grades to a room. There were eleven in my class. We all turned out to be successful in our own way, some as professionals and others in technical or various "blue-collar" fields. We all knew our times tables without thinking about it. With three grades in a room, we got to hear the same material three times as it was taught to each grade. Now students are herded into huge consolidated schools, and the small neighborhood schools are gone -- all in the name of money and efficiency. *gack*

No it isn't tal, they have no understanding, they haven't walked that road

Really? You think it is always someone else who grew up poor or became penniless during thier lifetime? Some of us have been there and then some. Im thinking your the one that remains in the dark about what a person can accomplish if they put thier mind to it. Im not saying its easy. But it can be done.

What's the class size now? We averaged 30-35 or more in my day and we did just fine. But I agree we need to hire teachers that know what they're doing. That may be tough since part of the reason college grads can't find jobs is no one needs people with a degree in art history.

Better hope the boss gives you time off, to get to that teachers meeting and you have a car just in case you miss the bus. A twenty minute car ride can be a 3 hour bus ride, and a 15 minute walk after.

If there is a bus.

no one needs people with a degree in art history.
Plus they can't spell, don't know the names of the eight parts of speech, don't know how to diagram a sentence, have execrable handwriting, can't put together an outline, and probably pick their nose when they don't think anyone is looking. And they have to deal with students with peanut allergies, fetal alcohol syndrome, various real or whomped-up mental illnesses, latch-key kids with no home life, cell phones (easy cheating on tests), no dress code, and so on..

What's the class size now? We averaged 30-35 or more in my day and we did just fine. But I agree we need to hire teachers that know what they're doing. That may be tough since part of the reason college grads can't find jobs is no one needs people with a degree in art history.

I have 30 kindergarteners in my class in CA. My school opened last year and we have one of the top test scores in the state. We aren't in a fancy area, and we're a public school. How did we do it? We all left our nice, established teaching positions to try to make a difference. We wear uniforms and require parents to get their kiddos to school. We must be doing something right!!

We all left our nice, established teaching positions to try to make a difference. We wear uniforms and require parents to get their kiddos to school. We must be doing something right!!
Sounds like Marva Collins and what she did in Chicago years ago.

I have 30 kindergarteners in my class in CA. My school opened last year and we have one of the top test scores in the state. We aren't in a fancy area, and we're a public school. How did we do it? We all left our nice, established teaching positions to try to make a difference. We wear uniforms and require parents to get their kiddos to school. We must be doing something right!!

Since your in the system how about answering a few questions ?

1) What are your thoughts on charter schools ?

2) What happens to poor children when they attend school? Disadvantages in education ?

Since your in the system how about answering a few questions ?

1) What are your thoughts on charter schools ?

2) What happens to poor children when they attend school? Disadvantages in education ?

Charter schools take the funds from public schools. I haven't seen many good ones. Parents are frustrated with their children's grades and look at charter schools as an alternative. I'm not saying they're all bad, but accreditation is an issue.
Poor children, as in poverty? Poverty doesn't always mean being poor. Children of poverty struggle from lack of help at home, attention from their families, and sometimes, lack of supplies. If parents are educated by the schools about how to help their children (access to computers, study skills, public library, etc.), we hope to break that cycle. That's why I love my school-no one looks different. They're all in uniform.

Charter schools take the funds from public schools. I haven't seen many good ones. Parents are frustrated with their children's grades and look at charter schools as an alternative. I'm not saying they're all bad, but accreditation is an issue.
Poor children, as in poverty? Poverty doesn't always mean being poor. Children of poverty struggle from lack of help at home, attention from their families, and sometimes, lack of supplies. If parents are educated by the schools about how to help their children (access to computers, study skills, public library, etc.), we hope to break that cycle. That's why I love my school-no one looks different. They're all in uniform.

Yes uniforms are important to break down that individualism that allows a student to say stuffu and to promote that team or school spirit of belonging to something important. The only way of you breaking the cycle of parents not helping is to realise that the parents may be uneducated and it will take more than a generation. As well educated as I am there was no way I could help my children effectively because teaching methods are very different and my knowledge just didn't seem to fit. Get back to the basics and give children understanding before you give them computers and every other gymic

I think the world has changed greatly, and we have both parents working, and even more single parent household than ever where the parent works. Just the work schedule can be disruptive for many child quality time and school functions. We shouldn't always blame a parent or lack of a PHD on the how kids are raised and educated because most kids come with their own unique circumstances, and the likely hood of a broken home is 50/50 whether married or not, for whatever reason.

Let's face some real facts, states are cutting school budgets and classes. And that also means less services for families who need them also. Lack of funds is always a challenge to find the right adjustments when the options and opportunities have shrunk so bad. Come on, if finances can tear a family apart, then what makes us think children are not affected adversely as well? It's a daunting challenge nowadays for middle class families, let alone for single parent households.

Its unrealistic to think just as children can fall through the cracks without help or proper support, so do the adults for the same reason. Erosion of the middle class has to be a huge factor to many trying to escape the poverty of this present economy.

What was the norm back in the day is hardly today's solutions.

Erosion of the middle class has to be a huge factor to many trying to escape the poverty of this present economy.

Yeah, about that. What exactly is it the emperor has accomplished to help stop the bleeding?

Can't do it by himself. And the opposition has grown since he was FIRST elected. Lets not blame one when there are 550 others who have done NOTHING.

Often cheered on for their obstruction by constituents. So is it fair to say a great number of people want NO solutions? Sure it is.

Dude, what part of Democrats have been running the show do you not get? Republicans can't do anything or stop anything without a bipartisan effort. Dingy Harry repeatedly declares House bills DOA, so point the finger where it belongs - to those running the show by themselves.

What has ANY president done for the middle class?

Your side needs to stop playing innocent victim. Republican play a large part of the dysfunction.

Your side needs to stop playing innocent victim. Republican play a large part of the dysfunction.

LOL, your whole agenda is based on victimhood.

No, its not, it's simple logic to realize less money equals less service. Add to that the dysfunction of actually addressing the problems of less money effectively, we have what we have.

I do blame us for talking softly and NOT using a big stick on you guys though!

No, its not, it's simple logic to realize less money equals less service. Add to that the dysfunction of actually addressing the problems of less money effectively, we have what we have.

I do blame us for talking softly and NOT using a big stick on you guys though!

Um, do you really not listen to your guys or read the news? You've bludgeoned us to death with you and the emperor leading the way. Ok, well Alan Grayson is even worse. I haven't seen or heard any of this "soft" talk you speak of.

I always listen to your side, how can you not, and have concluded we need a bigger stick than yours, or learn how to use ours more effectively. It's not like you guys haven't used your sticks, and rocks.

At some point we both will have to stop fighting and work together. Then we both can get something good going besides who throws the best crap at each other.

And the way to that is by removing our one check on power?

Your check on power only applies to judicial appointments and executive confirmations, of which you have availed yours check with an extraordinary amount of times, many for NO apparent reasons.

To deny democrats had little choice but to change the rules is denial of that fact. Clearly stopping the president from doing his lawful job under the constitution is obstruction. Senators can still vote their conscious.

But stopping the VOTE by any means necessary is the right wing chief weapon of obstruction. Yet another failure by you guys.

Gotta love your revisionism.

chaos is better

And the way to that is by removing our one check on power?


your check on power is in the ballot box, not in some one man campaign to obstruct

your check on power is in the ballot box, not in some one man campaign to obstruct

Yep, and this nuclear thing is going to bite the Dems in the a$$ when they're the minority.

Yep, and this nuclear thing is going to bite the Dems in the a$$ when they're the minority.

Speech, in my book majority government, means the majority have the ability to govern, this hybrid system you have blurrs the issues and seems designed to prevent anyone from governing, thus chaos. It is hard to determine which majority anyone is talking about, the majority who elected the president, the majority of representatives, the senate majority or the silent majority who must watch the circus with dispair

we rightly distrust absolute rule by the majority .

It shouldn't be that hard to give judicial nominees a vote to fill vacant seats.

It shouldn't be that hard to give judicial nominees a vote to fill vacant seats.

That's what we said in the Bush years when you were protesting the idea of the nuclear option which Republicans did not invoke.

there were many qualified judges in the Bush term who were denied placing ,including in the DC Circus. Remember Miguel Estrada, who ultimately withdrew his nomination ? Janice Rogers Brown who was only seated after the gang of 14 ?
Wiki's got the complete list of district court judges ,some of whom were blocked through the end of Bush's term ,and the seat was ultimately filled by the emperor's nominess.
George W. Bush judicial appointment controversies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_judicial_appointment_controversies# List_of_stalled.2C_blocked_or_filibustered_nominee s)

no hangin judges then eh?

Those unions are certainly doing some good work. They're fighting for a $10,000 severance buyout for a teacher convicted of raping a student over a 3 year period.

http://eagnews.org/parents-are-stunned-that-the-teachers-union-is-seeking-a-10000-severance-for-the-teacher-who-molested-their-son/

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWqOi0Lf2CvgskJyWHRAYwqIOsy5RVN L3bOr92Max5botUIC9n (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=ekAhg-D8k30pQM&tbnid=Sjt8NdNIy_8vuM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffriends18.com%2Fcategory%2Fcartoo n-jokes%2F&ei=n6qrUpfjM8bPkQXF_IHoBg&bvm=bv.57967247,d.dGI&psig=AFQjCNH7vGGansMfgnAwZ-bxOVglaHvCfQ&ust=1387068387951101)

I see someone solved their problems with a gun again

Now I see the problem

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR4rjX2iXuZL5kcM848Q2MSvQrB11c04 mlvALWUirfglWCT5I30vg
(http://www.google.com.au/imgres?start=200&sa=X&hl=en-GB&rlz=1T4GGNI_enAU563AU563&biw=1067&bih=467&tbm=isch&tbnid=lS8VkcsSp__tUM:&imgrefurl=http://www.olaalaa.com/tag/teacher-and-student-jokes/&docid=c3Ri_pPVTYTO2M&imgurl=http://www.olaalaa.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/funny-teacher-student-jokes.jpg&w=373&h=450&ei=Wa-rUuvJBMXwkAWh9oC4Bg&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:35,s:200,i:109)

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWqOi0Lf2CvgskJyWHRAYwqIOsy5RVN L3bOr92Max5botUIC9n (http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&frm=1&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&docid=ekAhg-D8k30pQM&tbnid=Sjt8NdNIy_8vuM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffriends18.com%2Fcategory%2Fcartoo n-jokes%2F&ei=n6qrUpfjM8bPkQXF_IHoBg&bvm=bv.57967247,d.dGI&psig=AFQjCNH7vGGansMfgnAwZ-bxOVglaHvCfQ&ust=1387068387951101)

I see someone solved their problems with a gun again

Yep, and no one seems to want to talk about it. I guess they couldn't find any way to blame the Tea Party.

Ace of Spades HQ (http://ace.mu.nu/archives/345725.php)

All the TParty cares about is their rights to bear arms and safety of our kids is a distant second, if that high.

With the last shooting, I am on board for armed guards outside every school, since no other solution can be found that's acceptable to keep guns out of the hands of troubled kids and homicidal loony's.

With the last shooting, I am on board for armed guards outside every school, Knew you would come around . Can you imagine the outcry if the latest shooter had been a TP instead of a guy who's big issue was wealth redistribution.

With the last shooting, I am on board for armed guards outside every school, since no other solution can be found that's acceptable to keep guns out of the hands of troubled kids and homicidal loony's.


So you advocate student searches by armed guards, because that's what it will take to keep weapons out of schools. That race of hooligans you have raised over there will not submit unless forced. it would be a lot easier to make weapons less available by removing certain classes of weapons from general sale

Reality says there will be no legislation to ban a peashooter,r nor do something about loony's getting gun, be they rich, or TP, no matter how many children die! And its obvious rich kids will never be held to the same standards of the law as any other kid with no money.

What's left? Doing nothing shouldn't be the option.

Reality says there will be no legislation to ban a peashooter,r nor do something about loony's getting gun, be they rich, or TP, no matter how many children die!

Still going with the myth, eh. I repeat:

The Tweetable Guide To Media Myths And Left-wing Violence (http://ace.mu.nu/archives/345725.php)

Gun violence is a left wing myth? Tell that to the families of the victims. What's your solution? I am not interested in your excuses to do nothing. That's obviously not working, or saving lives.

Smh...

Still going with the myth, eh. I repeat:

The Tweetable Guide To Media Myths And Left-wing Violence (http://ace.mu.nu/archives/345725.php)


I might be a myth but this Tweetable Guide is perpetuating its own type of mythology:

"An environmentalist who hates humans". "A registered Democrat". " An Obama voter"

What are those type of tweets suppose to demonstrate?

What are those type of tweets suppose to demonstrate?That the echo chamber is alive and well.

Everybody has one, and uses it for whatever pet idea, or ideal. Some echo louder and longer than others.

So bang! bang! and gun violence and gun control is in the news and the clamour continues to the deaf ears of the politicians sucking on the NRA teat. it is clear you need someone who rules by decree then what needs to be done could get done, stop the crap that it's undemocratic and you are living in a democracy, it isn't and you arn't, what you got is minority rules

Apparently you've bought into the myth as well.

Smh

Apparently you've bought into the myth as well.

No just listen to the news and you get the picture, at least the picture someone wants to paint, still it's news and it beats plant closures and bigger budget deficits, I suppose

Smh