I was leaving a gas station last night, there is a traffic light at the entrance of the drive. I proceeded through the light when it was green, and noted that a police officer did a u-turn and pulled me over. After he attempted to ask me where I had been, and I refused to answer, and asked him the reason why he was pulling me over. He went on to say that I was suppose to yield at the green light, when leaving a private drive even if the light is green and there is no oncoming traffic. There are no signs that indicate such and there were no other cars out but the police and myself, as such he would have had a red light, if mine was green.

I would like to know if this is a real ticket, or am I being harassed for some reason? I want to protest this ticket.

Is it a real ticket? Yes, if the Police issued it it's a real ticket.

If things are exactly as you said they are I do not see that you broke the law. There is no law that I am aware of that states you must stop at a green light before proceeding. Where is this?

This is what often happens when the Police ask a question and a person refuses to answer. I know, Civil Rights, you don't have to answer. The Police have chosen to cause you inconvenience, perhaps for that reason alone.

Take photographs that show the intersection and protest the ticket.

If I have the picture here, the gas station was at the top of a T intersection and there was traffic light controlling the T. You exited the gas station and crossed the street going down the vertical of the T. The officer crossed the vertical then made a U-turn and followed you down the vertical and pulled you over.

He asked where you had been and you refused to explain. Why? Why didn't you say you had just gotten gas?

While it does appear that the officer may have given you a ticket just because you refused to answer him, I'm curious why you chose to antagonize him.

In any case, take pictures of the intersection and fight it. But don't be surprised if the judge also want to know why you refused to answer.

Did you leave the service station onto a public roadway and then through the light? Or is the station entrance/exit actually a part of a signalized intersection?
What is your definition of a drive? Gas station driveway?

... But don't be surprised if the judge also want to know why you refused to answer.

1. None of the officer's business; and/ or
2. Privilege against self-incrimination. If the officer didn't know where OP had been (the gas station), it could be that the oficer didn't actually see OP leave that place. If, as the officer suggested, one must stop at the light when leaving the gas station, he would have to be able to testify to that fact in order to convict OP. To do that, without having seen it, the only other way would be to use OP's admission, something OP clearly doesn't have to make (Assuming OP is in the US).

But the main question is whether what OP describes is a violation. What OP should do is look at the ticket. It should specify what law OP is supposed to have violated. Then look up that statute in whichever state or country OP is in to see if the officer may be correct.

The 5th Amendment could apply, but that means the OP has something to be incriminated about.

We don't know if it wan't the officer's business or not since we don't know the reasons for asking,

I agree it was none of the Officer's business. I also agree that perhaps if the OP had cooperated he wouldn't be here, asking about his ticket. I think people stand on their rights up until they are the victim - then it's a lot of screaming on their part. How about a little cooperation when you're not the victim?

I have no idea what he's describing, and I'm an accident investigator.

But if the question is whether this is a "real" ticket, my suspicion is that any ticket issued by the Police is a "real" ticket.

It is very likely, that something else is going on, Is the person who got the ticket "known" by the police, since he used the words harassed, it may sound, ( assuming here) that the person may have had other dealings with police.

Also how did he pull out, "burning rubber" or slowly pulling out.

Also, reallly need a photo or drawing of the road, but if the parking lot, exited onto a street, near the intersection, and he went from the parking lot, onto a side street, and then though the light, if he did not stop, going out of parking lot, that may have been the issue.

But again, most likely he gave the ticket because of the drivers attitude, that will normally get you at least one ticket.

I have a career because, simply put, the situation is almost never as "simple" as described - and, yes, FrChuck - could be just about anything.

It is in Kalamazoo, MI

The 5th Amendment could apply, but that means the OP has something to be incriminated about.

We don't know if it wan't the officer's business or not since we don't know the reasons for asking,

There was no reason for me to be stopped, I went to the gas station and got cigarettes, he seen me leaving the gas station. I am a black woman, and this is my 3rd time in 2 weeks being pulled over and being asked where am I coming from. I am feeling like it is racial profiling, there was nothing incriminating, it is just none of the officer's business, if I just wanted to ride around the block, I am an adult. I have broken no law, I will post a pick of the intersection today.

It is very likely, that something else is going on, Is the person who got the ticket "known" by the police, since he used the words harrassed, it may sound, ( assuming here) that the person may have had other dealings with police.

Also how did he pull out, "burning rubber" or slowly pulling out.

also, reallly need a photo or drawing of the road, but if the parking lot, exited onto a street, near the intersection, and he went from the parking lot, onto a side street, and then though the light, if he did not stop, going out of parking lot, that may have been the issue.

But again, most likely he gave the ticket because of the drivers attitude, that will normally get you at least one ticket.

I am a woman, I don't have a criminal record, but for some reason since I moved to this certain neighborhood in Kalamazoo, MI. I have been stopped 3 times with in the past few week. I was not burning rubber nor do I have a criminal record, and the light directs the traffic of the gas station, I had the right of way there were no other cars out but the police car and myself. I have an attitude because there was no reason to pull me over, and moreover by the time he pulled me over I was already in my driveway. He would not let me exit the car, and it took him 30 minutes to issue a ticket that stated"failed to yield leaving a private drive (gas station). When I stated the light was green, he stated I was suppose to yield anyway, even if there were no other cars. So what I hear you saying is an officer can issue a ticket based on attitude, that sounds ridiculous, I do not feel I broke any law, which should be the basis for issuing a ticket.

If I have the picture here, the gas station was at the top of a T intersection and there was traffic light controlling the T. You exited the gas station and crossed the street going down the vertical of the T. The officer crossed the vertical then made a U-turn and followed you down the vertical and pulled you over.

He asked where you had been and you refused to explain. Why? Why didn't you say you had just gotten gas?

While it does appear that the officer may have given you a ticket just because you refused to answer him, I'm curious why you chose to antagonize him.

In any case, take pictures of the intersection and go ahead and fight it. But don't be surprised if the judge also want to know why you refused to answer.

I did not choose to antagonize him, I chose my right to not answer his question, because it was obvious I just left the gas station. I felt he was antagonizing me, and there was no reason to pull me over, moreover I was already in my driveway when he turned his lights on. He had not at this point even explained to me, why I was being pulled over. After he checked my credential, it was then he told me that I failed to yield leaving a private drive, and even though it was a green light, I had to yield anyway, if there was opposing traffic or not because I turned. On top of that, I've been pulled over 3 times, I think simply because of the area of which I live, they are racial profiling in Kalamazoo, MI. I think, the police officer thought it was something suspicious happening, and when he was wrong, he had to make something up.

Did you leave the service station onto a public roadway and then thru the light? Or is the station entrance/exit actually a part of a signalized intersection?
What is your definition of a drive? Gas station driveway?

The entrance and exit to the gas station is controlled by the traffic light. I live in Kalamazoo, MI

Fight it. If it's really as you explained it was, definitely fight this. Take pictures and take them with you.

Shouldn't need to be said but just in case... when in court, be incredibly polite. I have noticed there are many judges that just don't want to hear it if they think you have an attitude.

Good luck.

The 5th Amendment could apply, but that means the OP has something to be incriminated about.

We don't know if it wan't the officer's business or not since we don't know the reasons for asking,

I do not feel it was the officer's business, because I had broken no law. He did not tell me why he was pulling me over, and I was already at home. He observed me leaving the gas station, so the question had nothing to do with "my failure to yield leaving a private driveway", even though it was a light directing traffic, and there were no other cars on the roadway to yield for. What does where am I coming from have to do with it, the gas station had not been violated, and he observed me leaving the gas station, since he was waiting at the red light.

Was it late at night? Not that it makes this whole thing right but if it was late, he could have been checking you to see if you had been drinking... just a thought.

OK, thanks for the follow-ups. First let me reiterate, I think you should fight it. I suspect it was very much racial profiling. But I will add that refusal to answer an officer's questions, whether he had the right to ask or not, puts you at a disadvantage right off the bat.

Again, I think you should fight it, but I'm not sure you will win. The reason, is the violation you were cited for; failed to yield leaving a private drive. I'm going to assume here, that the exit to the gas station was a curb cut, not an actual road. I don't know about Kalamazoo, but in NY a traffic light does not control exits to a driveway, only to a road, whether public or private. A motorist is required to yield to traffic when exiting a driveway.

What I would have done is answer the officer but take down his name and report him.

Don't know about New York but in Maryland where I worked as a Highway Engineer, there are numerous intersections where only access to a business is controlled by a traffic signal (no intersecting streets, roadways, collector roads etc), and many others where a portion of the need for the signal is a large service station.
In many instances, the signal is designed and paid for by the business that the signal serves and is required before access to a public highway is authorized.
In other instances, if a signal exists in the vicinity before the business develops, the only access that will be permitted is by bringing in a connection from the business to the existing signal and once again the business paying for the signal modifications. Entrances are routinely denied if the curb apron (driveway to a business) would be within a certain distance from an existing intersection (signalized or not). The intention being- minimizing the number of intersections/accident potential along a state or county roadway.

Yoyo- are you willing to give us a precise location of the intersection that we can look at through Google maps or other available resources? I believe this would be very helpful. Just an address for the service station should do it.

I'm still not sure if the signal controls traffic on one street and a t intersection on the other with a gas station across from the t or something else. How about a diagram? I investigate accidents - I need more info.

The Police certainly can follow you home and ticket you in your driveway, if that's your question.

And, again, you chose not to coooperate. I'm not arguing whether it's your right to refuse to answer. I'm saying you didn't answer and so you got a ticket. It's not all that complicated.

So, again, go to Court and argue that you didn't break the law. Ask for a copy of the law you broke which - by the way - was what?

What time of day or night did this occur? Being from Michigan myself, I know that there are some very rough areas in K'zoo. My son is a police officer (not in K'zoo), and says that attitude will most definitely get you a ticket. Kindness and respect will get you out of very many situations.

Don't know about New York but in Maryland where I worked as a Highway Engineer, there are numerous intersections where only access to a business is controlled by a traffic signal (no intersecting streets, roadways, collector roads etc), and many others where a portion of the need for the signal is a large service station.
In many instances, the signal is designed and paid for by the business that the signal serves and is required before access to a public highway is authorized.
In other instances, if a signal exists in the vicinity before the business develops, the only access that will be permitted is by bringing in a connection from the business to the existing signal and once again the business paying for the signal modifications. Entrances are routinely denied if the curb apron (driveway to a business) would be within a certain distance from an existing intersection (signalized or not). The intention being- minimizing the number of intersections/accident potential along a state or county roadway.

yoyo- are you willing to give us a precise location of the intersection that we can look at thru google maps or other available resources? I believe this would be very helpful. Just an address for the service station should do it.

I think this hits the nail on the head.

It has to do with the layout rather than whether the "driveway" is publicly or provately owned. If there is a law in Michigan requiring one to stop at a green light when exiting a "private drive" that would be strange, because a private drive wouldn't usually have a light.

So yes, please give us coordinates or a pic from Google Earth or something like that.

But I will agree, as a past officer from Atlanta GA, being polite or rude makes a difference,
The one person who got the most tickets from me, at one time, started by saying "don't you know who I am) it went down hill from there, he got 5 tickets, the most I ever gave any one person. They were all valid, some absure laws, ** I will say the judge was not really happy about them, but he had to let them stand, since they were valid

AK, Part of my statement is that there are many private drives that have their access to a state or county road at a signal, and in many cases it is just a signal to facilitate traffic in and out of one particular business. I doubt that is unique to MD. One example, a new Lowe's was built in western MD on the top of a hill and their "driveway" is several hundred feet long, down to US 40. They has to obtain an access permit from the State Highway Administration and a as a condition of receiving a permit they have to fund and have built, a signal (creating a "T" intersection), left turn lane, acceleration lane, deceleration lane, etc. I am assuming that Lowe's funded and built it based on procedures in effect when I worked there.
There were instances during my career where developments were proposed but never built because access was denied, usually because highway engineering standards couldn't be satisfied or were too costly for the developer.
Another location near Baltimore, a hotel immediately adjacent to a state highway, no driveway, the entrance/exit is at a 4 way signal, no driveway, no other roadway of any kind, just one business involved.
I don't know the design of the intersection the OP mentioned until she tells us where it is.

That's why I asked if this is a cross intersection involving the driveway or a t with a driveway on one side.

Well, it's not like I investigate accidents or anything so what would I know - ?

And, yes, I checked the law. I see nothing about stopping at a green light before "you" proceed. Likewise, that's why I asked for the exact language on the ticket. Green or not green a person cannot pull out of a driveway/street/whatever when it is not safe.

And I said from the top that OP exercised his civil right not to answer - and that's undoubtedly a factor in the ticket. Then it all got clouded by the ticket in the driveway additional language.

...Ask for a copy of the law you broke which - by the way - was what?

I have reviewed this thread, and I don't see that OP has told us what, exactly, the ticket said. It should cite a code section. I just looked at the Michigan statutes, and they are a real jumble. I couldn't find their "rules of the road" in them at all.

I have a hard time believing that they have a law against failing to yield at a green light; either if it's a whether private drive or a public road connects at the light. Shouldn't make any difference. I'm guessing the officer is claiming that the light was not green.

One other comment. OP says that she suspects "racial profiling". That train left the station a long time ago. While Kalamazoo (or anywhere else) may still have traces of racial prejudice here and there, it's not Mississippi in 1930. Let's discuss the facts and not OP's imagined victimization, OK? What is more likely is that OP copped an attitude (as a result of her victim mentality) and was verbally abusive to the officer. Under such circumstances (not nicely saying "I'm sorry, officer, but I would rather not answer that question."), it is human nature to issue a ticket when otherwise it would have been borderline. He issued the ticket because of her attitude, not because of the color of her skin.

Agreed - another case where requests for info go unanswered and other info is provided instead.

One example, a new Lowe's was built in western MD on the top of a hill and their "driveway" is several hundred feet long, down to US 40.

This is a different situation. This works the same way in NY. But the driveway in this case is considered a private road. I specifically referred to a curb cut, where the curb is inclined down to the roadway not where the driveway or access is at the same level. In NY this would not be considered controlled by a traffic light but subject to the same rules as exiting a business or private inclined driveway.

But the bottom line here is the OP has a chance to fight this if she can show that she exited the gas station with reasonable safety.