Prove it and quite hollering. Nobody brings a rope to their own lynching. Are you a mob of angry townspeople, or true constitutional defenders of the rules?

I vote you are a mob myself. Hypocrites of your rights but no one else's unless YOU say so. We will see how that works out for ya!

Federal law requires it... last I heard... Obama isn't above the Federal law... not is any of his minions.

THe ONLY possible way those emails aren't available is through intentional, criminal misdonduct.

Anyone that understand anything about IT, and the legal requirements the Government has , as well as corporate entities when it comes to Emails... would know this. Its already proven... in the courts, and in the law.

Thank you for proving the mob mentality now convince a judge of it.

smoothy is smarter that all judges, lawyers and Mensa members.

Needkarma is Canadian and uch obviously doesn't have a clue about American legal requirements that apply to email retention and archiving.

Apparently in Canada... there might not be any such requirement... however this isn't Canada and we do have laws about it that do carry criminal penaltes and jail time for violating.

Let those crack scandal investigators find their own evidence to match their assumptions.
it's called a criminal cover-up. If only we had an Att General with a smidgeon of integrity .

try using the excuse to the IRS that you lost your records.

That you for proving the mob mentality now convince a judge of it.

I don't have to... every judge practicing law knows this law exists and so does everyone that works in IT anywhere in the country... its only a few people that chose to pretend it doesn't exist.

Needkarma is Canadian and uch obviously doesn't have a clue about American legal requirements that apply to email retention and archiving.yes I do, part of my work is in that field, which includes knowing US regulations - does your job require that? Knowing where cloud servers are physically based is also part of my job.

Find the records and prove intent, as you saying its so, doesn't make it so, or point guilt at a guilty party. In legal terms you have allegations. Hollering is one thing, proof is a higher standard. We have heard the hollering and allegations, the burden of proof is in YOUR court.

Leaks to the press and FOX NEWS interviews are NOT proof. But you already know that.

Google "Federal Records act"... YOU saying it doesn't exist when it most certainy does won't change reality.

Prove it doesn't exist now... there are pages after pages of regulations and legal requirements that are part of it... read them yourself.

Google "Federal Records act"... YOU saying it doesn't existNo one here said that - who are you talking to?

No need. I am not the one trying to prove they were broken, and by whom. Sorry if I just don't take your word for it.

I've been waiting for a while to see if anyone would comment on this... and apparently nobody know as much as they think they do.

The IRS has its own email servers... THe White house has their own... they aren't located in the same locations... ( I know where the White house has theirs and NOBODY else has their equipment there).. they aren't even within a couple miles of each other.

BOTH will have copies of these same emails... BOTH will have their own backups... BOTH statitsticaly could not have possibly had the same failure affecting the same data... BOTH fall under the same Federal law.

Maybe nobody has said anything publicly about it just yet... there is no even remotely plausible excuse to have BOTH lose it.

But then.....the typical lefty responses when caught in a lie or cornered...is deflect, deny, and when that fails....start calling names.

And Tal... "The National Records Act" IS a federal law... prove it doesn't exist... google has thousands of references to it. Many of them on the National Archives website who is responsible for keeping and maintaining the backups / archives.

I suppose they (as part of the Federal Government ) are part of this grand deception too?

Find the records and prove intent, as you saying its so, doesn't make it so, or point guilt at a guilty party. In legal terms you have allegations. Hollering is one thing, proof is a higher standard. We have heard the hollering and allegations, the burden of proof is in YOUR court.

How can we when the Justice Dept is complicit in the cover-up ?

prove it doesn't existAt no point did he say it didn't exist; why are you doting on this straw man fallacy?

I think the logic of your arguments and the facts of due process have much to be desired as does your resorting to broad brushing of facts and intentions to hide glaring flaws in your own positions.

Luckily I have nothing else to do but poke holes into right wing absurdity. It's not that hard and entertaining to an extent. Its like watching a human lighting a bottle rocket and thinking he will get to the moon. Upon failure he comes up with trying a bigger lighter.

In this case, you swear you know you have evidence but they won't let you find it. You ignore the evidence you do have though because it never leads you where you want it too. So we all watch this clown show the right wing yet again presents us with. You never had the credibility of truth in the first place and lunacy is where your hollering has gotten you. Don't dare call yourself smart and me dumb for watching you holler, and chase your own tail.

If you were so smart, you would sell tickets for free to the circus.

At no point did he say it didn't exist; why are you doting on this straw man fallacy?

Are you still ranting away about something. I proved it exists... I even named it by its correct name...

Tal... when you find yourself deep in a hole... put down the shovel.

I proved it exists... I even named it by its correct name.Good for you. No one said it doesn't exist.

Good for you. No one said it doesn't exist

Then the purpose of your comments are what exactly?

What's the purpose of you pretending to prove something that no one denied?

Then the purpose of your comments are what exactly?
ankle biting

ankle biting

I guess that's it... like those little pocket dogs that go yip , yip yip and can't do much more than that because they aren't able to reach any higher..

Nope, I will keep you honest. You can't post any old crap and not expect to get called on it when it's BS.

There is no room for me or anyone else to post ANY BS... there is none left to post after you get done without repeating something you said.

I posted facts... maybe a bit hard for a Canadian to wrap their mind around... but we have laws where... and we have them for a reason... the have been in place for many years... and yet this current administration has trouble following any of them... because he in his tiny little mind believes he is a King, and above such petty little things called laws meant for the unwashed masses.

You're absolutely RIGHT! I should stop trying to dig a hole deep enough to bury your BS! There is just too much of it! :D

You missed your true calling as a mega church preacher.

You failed to prove ANYTHING I said was inaccurate.

That's not what a debate or discussion is about. Only an impartial third party can judge who is right, or wrong, or who wins. I just throw my side of it out and the reasons behind it and move along. Okay sometimes I throw rocks after being rocked. I have my flaws, so what!

I have conceded no hole can be dug deep enough for your political BS! What else do you want from me? You don't have to agree with my facts, spin, or opinions. That would be no fun either! You are having fun aren't you?

PS, I know where the missing emails are and it was an easy thing to figure out. Even easier to get them if you think logically.

How many people here have been around 90% of the White House comunications infrastructure before? Me. You you, not anyone else on this thread.

Have you even been inside the IRS building before... I have too, not nearly as often as the WHite House but I've been in it more than a few times, Ever been around their servers? I have. Has anyone else here...

I can make a really long list of the Government agencies and quite a few embassies who's own facilities I'm quite familiar with... including that of Paracletes own countries embassy here.

So don't compare my actual experience around these as being on par or less with those who haven't even seen the outside of the buildings before.

And some of these I've been in and out of for the last 20 years.

THey all have been my customers for that long.

All your degrees and experiences are no better than my well earned PHD from the school of hard knocks. You will survive Obama, as I survived Reagans, and Bushes, and Nixons. No big deal. Trust me!

Trust me!

that's the problem Tal he doesn't, he spends his time bignoting himself on a obscure website and tempting us with titbits of his secret world. Smoothy you need to get out more

Stupid facts and education, they get in the way don't they when you want to emotionally stir things up.

For an alleged IT guy that's a mouthful. You know damn well they didn't just disappear. I know how it works and I know the law so you can save your "stupid" BS for someone else. Got it?

How many people here have been around 90% of the White House comunications infrastructure before? Me. Anyone can say that. I don't believe a word of it.

You know damn well they didn't just disappear. I know, that's why I mentioned it in my response.

Anyone can say that. I don't believe a word of it.

Do you really think I give a damn if you do or don't? I know for a fact you don't even know squat about your own countries communications networks... much less your embassies secure communications networks. Ever work with Encryptors? Probibly not.

I've been in yours quite a few times too... back where diplomatic communications are handled. Just like dozens of other embassies here.

See the differnce between us... is I've done what I said... you just blow smoke.

is I've done what I said.Because you say you have on an anonymous internet forum? Hehe.
I work the stuff daily, now. Hopefully I passed my recent security certification exam. Other than this I don't talk about my work... don't need to, not trying desperately to impress people like you do.

that's the problem Tal he doesn't, he spends his time bignoting himself on a obscure website and tempting us with titbits of his secret world. Smoothy you need to get out more

Clete.. I get out plenty... they say ignorance is bliss... if so you must be a very blissful person being spoo nfed the propaganda cetain groups want you to believe. You tal and NK as well.

If you believe everything you hear on the news... its you , not me that needs to get out more... I've been out and around more than enough to see how often the so-called journalists intentionally ignore what's actually happening to tell people what they want them to hear... and I've been around enough to see it happening in a number of countries.

I've had the good fortune to have seen a lot, and had the right friends in the right places to find stuff out I might not have had direct exposre to myself. I have a number of friends and family in the Justice Department of another country... and for 15 years before his death, I was able to count an Attourney General among them, a few others I won't say where they work) because they still work there and I shouldn't know it.

I've sat down with your previos embassador Dennis Richardson for lunch a few times with some of the IT guys. Oddly enough the first time I've ever had a Hawaiian Pizza was with them on day.

So yap away... I've been there, you haven't. Nothing you can say will change the facts of it.





Its obvious you and a few oof the others here haven't.

Because you say you have on an anonymous internet forum? Hehe.
I work the stuff daily, now. Hopefully I passed my recent security certification exam. Other than this I don't talk about my work... don't need to, not trying desperately to impress people like you do.... I don't give a crap if you are impressed or not. I couldn't care less.


I'm just calling you out on your incessant BS you know nothing about... and what little you think you do... you got from some highly unquallified "journalist" who was pushing the proaganda their editor told them to push if they wanted to keep their job.

Me, I don't give a damn... I've done so much of this crap for so many years... its not exciting... many years ago it was, for a while but I'm tired of dealing with all the BS that goes with it.

you just blow smoke.

smoothy this is exactly what you are doing. So you were introduced to a hawaiian pizza, and you say you get out, you mean to say no one in the US every thought of putting pineapple on a pizza or eating pizza for lunch? What do you think we eat, roo burgers?

any way I'm tired of your "incessant BS". You spend far too much time here to be the big business man you claim, maybe you are just a nerd on the night shift with nothing better to do

No... that bit with the Pizza was just some useless but true information... no your guys didn't think of it... they ordered it from a local pizza shop that had been making it for years... I'm a traditionalist... I like REAL Napolitan pizza made by a real pizziola ina wood fired pizza oven... Real easy to find fantastc Pizza in Italy... and its way better than New York Style Pizza.

You are another one than just NK that spends lots of time online spewing crap, pretending to know everything... because you saw it on some news show. What people like like you two can't stand is when you come across someone who's actually been in the middle of some of this stuff that knows and calls you out on it.


Its simple... I've been there... you saw it on TV. Huge difference. Why you guys get so uppity and jealous about it is beyond comprehension. If you had a clue about what I do all day at work......you would see how I can manage to be online all the time.

I sit in front of seven computers monitoring much of the mid-atlantic networks, and undersea trunk cables, covering a LOT of geographic area....spanning the Atlantic ocean. For years I was one of the guys who did all the running....these days I call out other people to do much of it....I still do some of it, just not that exclusively. Its called a promotion in this part of the world.

I have another computer I uses just to mess around on I appropriated when we had our last round of layoffs a few years ago.

Smoothy it isn't that simple. There is a difference between something that is claimed to "no longer to exist" through incompetence and something that doesn't exist because of a willful attempt to pervert a particular Act.

These are areas of degree that can only be determined by the actual or circumstantial evidence presented. In other words, to gain a conviction for a intentional criminal act of the type you are talking about, one would need evidence to show this was not a result of a particular class of circumstances.

Tuttyd, it really is that simple. The claim they made and the excuse they gave... is patently false... and a flat out lie, her computer crashing would not affect the copies required to be on the server that were backed up and archived.. For years all emails MUST legally be archived and made available in case of a legal case (government and larger businesses)... or for archival purposes PARTICULARLY with the government.

Corporations are also legally required to do this as well. 20 years ago, emails WERE on the individuals computer, not a common server... but roughly 7-9 years ago (don't remember an exact year and I'm too tired to go looking for it now) they were required to centralize everything so the federally required records can be kept. In case of criminal wrongdoing they couldn't be conveniently LOST by any means... just like now with the IRS.

Not even last weeks emails would be lost on a server crash....the last two years would be backed up off site in legally required archives. That's just how these things are handled...because there are laws about accountability. People can and should go to jail if they were ignoring the law.

And most people apparently aren't aware of it based on some of the arguments presented in this thread.

I don't know if other countries have similar laws.....but here in the USA we do. We were legally required to do it at my comapany....and they spelled out the real reasons to us at the time years ago.

I don't think anyone is denying that a particular Act actually exists, but it is an entirely different question as to HOW the Act was circumvented. In other words, a willful attempt to destroy records for unlawful purposes, or gross incompetence, which may or may not be a severe criminal act.

I am not saying there are no penalties for failing to adhere to the Act. What I am saying is that the penalties differ depending upon degree of liability.

Everyone keeps saying the law the law. Well if you have never seen it here is some information on it.

The Law Requires Email Archiving | ITworld (http://www.itworld.com/security/55954/law-requires-email-archiving)

Yes, that fits in pretty much with what I have posted. As far as I can see anyway.

I don't think anyone is denying that a particular Act actually exists, but it is an entirely different question as to HOW the Act was circumvented. In other words, a willful attempt to destroy records for unlawful purposes, or gross incompetence, which may or may not be a severe criminal act.

I am not saying there are no penalties for failing to adhere to the Act. What I am saying is that the penalties differ depending upon degree of liability.

You might not be denying it... but some of the others actually were.

THey only way it could be circumvented is by willful action. I can't say how often the backups are made, but for the sake of argument... once a day is being generous... because incrimental backups are done throughout the day most likely... the backups are removed and archived because the retention time is many years... so backups are periodically taken for offsite safe keeping... this likely happens weekly. There will be multiple backups archived offsite at any given moment... many of them having much of the same information only newer ones have more recent information.

And besides all of that... the NSA no doubt has its tenticles into all of this as well so they have their copies too... and nobody has direct access to all of that unless the orders come all the way from the top. Which I don't believe was ordered. I think its limited to just the IRS itself.

However everything between Learner and the WHite house... will be replicated on the White houses server archives as well.

This is not a national secret...anyone working corporate IT in the USA knows all of this. Because they follow the same laws.

No its, not the only way, it is the most likely way. Important difference.

One would need to show in legal terms that it is the only possible explanation. As far as I am aware this hasn't been done yet.

smoothy it may interest you to know that I am not just someone who spends time online I have done many things, have chalked up a few firsts along the way and continue to do what I can, If I am here at all is that I have debated over many years with people like Ex and Tom on these sites. I know it is a fruitless pursuit, but hey it beats Facebook or Twitter or sending Stupid SMS. Yes someone might have bought a Pizza, is it a crime, where I come from wood fired pizza has vanished, no demand, in fact pizza is vanishing. many other things are vanishing, once we had migrants that appreciated such things now we only have kabab eaters and curry houses and inediable food

No its, not the only way, it is the most likely way. Important difference.

One would need to show in legal terms that it was the only possible explanation. As far as I am aware this hasn't been done yet.

With multiple offsite archives if ONE was damaged... MOST could still be recovered using at least two other backups...

But the issue here is ONLY the needed emails are missing... backups and archives on emails aren't individual specific... they cover the entire server and everyone on it. If only one or two peoples are missing... there was intentional actions made to scrub them.

Besides the argument they are using... is how things were done quite a few years before the last two years that are in question. Now your emails and my home emails might be done... EG: POP3... but legal requirements for government and Corporate emails were required to be EG: IMAP where they reside on the server primarily. WHere a single backup can be made enterprise wide, or at least for each server.

This change occurred here something over 7 years ago (rough guess, it was actually more than that)... well before the last two years when all of this occurred that is in question. No grey area during a transition period.

This is what I just said. Give the information you have provided it seems the most likely explanation. This is as far as anyone can go at the moment.

Clete... nobody said buying a pizza was a crime... I was just pointing some stuff out. I actually quite liked your fellow countrymen at your embassy. They gave me several cases of brews brought in via diplomatic pouch to share with my co-workers for a lot of years.

One of maybe 5 embassies that did that from the over 75 I worked with over the years.

Congress doesn't seem to have the balls to either charge her, or grant immunity, and chance whatever she may have.

smoothy I get the idea your friendship can be bought for a few beers, we have a lot of people like that here too

Smoothy it isn't that simple. There is a difference between something that is claimed to "no longer to exist" through incompetence and something that doesn't exist because of a willful attempt to pervert a particular Act.

These are areas of degree that can only be determined by the actual or circumstantial evidence presented. In other words, to gain a conviction for a intentional criminal act of the type you are talking about, one would need evidence to show this was not a result of a particular class of circumstances.

The generous explanation is that they are a bunch of incompetents. You could make that case knowing how badly they blew the Obamacare web site.

But I don't buy it . They have stonewalled any attempt to find the truth ;including an non-investigation investigation by the Holder Justice Dept.
Look ;EVERYONE here knows that e-mails don't disappear. So it's logical to assume that IF the e-mails exonerated Lerner and the chain of command ,they would've produced them. But it is just too convenient and fortuitous for them to lose the e-mails that are specific to the dates when the abuses occurred .


4 U.S.C. Chapter 33, requires that agencies must notify the Archivist of any records that are destroyed and the reasons for destroying them. In addition, federal regulations establish strict recoverability and redundancy requirements. Disposal of records outside these standards requires permission in writing. The IRS satisfies these requirements through Microsoft Outlook/Exchange systems, which are backed up using Symantec NetBackup. According to the IT specialist, IRS had some of the best people in the federal government charged with making sure these systems work as intended.
The IT specialist makes short work of IRS’s claim that backup tapes were reused after some short period. He says “the IRS had thousands and thousands of tapes and ‘Virtual Tape Libraries’ (VTL or non-tape backups based on hard drive storage technologies).” Thus, “there was never a reason to reuse tapes.” In any case, the U.S. government has been getting out of the tape backup regime for years.
The former IRS IT specialist concludes:

Those folks would not have had such a short retention period for email unless they had it in writing from the highest levels. It would have made the local IT water cooler gossip if the IRS had screwed up and lost tons of email by accident.

Lois Lerner's emails — a former IRS IT specialist's take | Power Line (http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2014/06/lois-lerners-emails-a-former-irs-it-specialists-take.php)
The PJ Tatler » Exclusive: Former IRS Information Tech Worker Doubts Agency's Claim to have 'Lost' Lerner's Emails (http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/06/16/exclusive-former-irs-information-tech-worker-doubts-agencys-claim-to-have-lost-lerners-emails/)

Apparently there were at least 6 others in the conspiracy who's emails went a missin. Did all their computers "crash" too ?
One of them was Nikole Flax, chief of staff to former IRS Commissioner Steven Miller. Flax made 31 visits to the White House between July 12, 2010, and May 8, 2013, according to White House visitor logs. As far as I know ,none of them was for an Easter egg roll on the WH lawn like Miller claimed in testimony.
Her visits began when the IRS started targeting conservative TP and religious groups ;and ended on the VERY DAY that she received an email from Lerner asking her help in coordinating with the Justice Dept to criminally prosecute conservative activists .(that was the email obtained by Judicial Watch through the Freedom of Information Act.... evidently that one wasn't destroyed when Lerner's computer "crashed " . ) We also know that Dem Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse asked Lerner to do this coordination .We also know that Dem Rep. Elijah Cummings' staff was in contact with Lerner about the conservative group True the Vote.

So we have direct contact with the WH and high ranking Congressional Democrats coordinating this IRS attack on their political opposition . And all these emails have conveniently been destroyed .

Rep Steve Stockman of Texas has prepared a bill in response, the "Dog Ate My Tax Receipts Resolution"



The resolution may be cited as the “Dog Ate My Tax Receipts Resolution.”Expressing the sense of the House of Representatives that the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) must allow taxpayers the same lame excuses for missing documentation that the IRS itself is currently proffering

Whereas, the IRS claims that convenient, unexplained, miscellaneous computer malfunction is sufficient justification not to produce specific, critical documentation; and,

Whereas, fairness and Due Process demand that the American taxpayer be granted no less latitude than we afford the bureaucrats employed presently at the IRS;

Now, therefore, be it resolved that it is the sense of the House of Representatives that unless and until the Internal Revenue Service produces all documentation demanded by subpoena or otherwise by the House of Representatives, or produces an excuse that passes the red face test,

All taxpayers shall be given the benefit of the doubt when not producing critical documentation, so long as the taxpayer’s excuse therefore falls into one of the following categories:

1. The dog ate my tax receipts

2. Convenient, unexplained, miscellaneous computer malfunction

3. Traded documents for five terrorists

4. Burned for warmth while lost in the Yukon

5. Left on table in Hillary’s Book Room

6. Received water damage in the trunk of Ted Kennedy’s car

7. Forgot in gun case sold to Mexican drug lords

8. Forced to recycle by municipal Green Czar

9. Was short on toilet paper while camping

10. At this point, what difference does it make?

In any case, IRS can see the NSA for a good, high quality copy.

all wonderful excuses

the truth is that when Bush made a mistake in nominating Harriet Meyers for SCOTUS ,it was the Republicans that lead the revolt. I get the sense that no matter how outrageously this emperor's adm behaves ,his defenders here will be stalwart in their wagon circling . I've yet to hear them criticize anything he's done .We are expected to believe that they conveniently destroyed all the hard drives and all the backups for ONLY the 2 years pertinent to this discussion. And when it's brought up they juvenilely reply' nanananananana prove it '.

I can't believe we are still talking about backups, is this a nerd convention

To understand the latest outrage in the IRS scandal, mull over what might happen if regulators found significant evidence to implicate Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein in an insider trading scheme.
Let’s say Blankfein asserted his Fifth Amendment right not to answer any questions. Say Goldman was subpoenaed to provide all of Blankfein’s e-mails. Goldman replied that, instead of complying with the subpoena, it was itself reviewing the e-mails in question and was considering which ones to release.
Now imagine that, nearly a year later, Goldman admitted that it had not, in fact, reviewed the e-mails in question, because they had been lost in a computer crash (http://nypost.com/2014/06/20/lerner-e-mails-permanently-lost-in-irs-scandal/) two months before it claimed to be reviewing them. Imagine Goldman also said copies of the e-mails were lost, because while under subpoena it had destroyed the “backup tapes” (whatever those are) that held them and that it had also thrown away Blankfein’s actual hard drive.

How are Obama and the IRS getting away with a blatant coverup? | New York Post (http://nypost.com/2014/06/21/why-are-obama-and-the-irs-getting-away-with-a-blatant-coverup/)

Well Tom maybe given the facts that the right is always hollering about everything maybe many have chosen to be more pragmatic and cautious in proceeding toward a conclusion.

I mean do you have to run around with a pitchfork when you holler?

if you can't get you way hold a witchhunt, it's an old american tradition

Well Tom maybe given the facts that the right is always hollering about everything maybe many have chosen to be more pragmatic and cautious in proceeding toward a conclusion.
stonewalling ,obstruction of justice and criminal coverup . But like the sheeple you are ,you make excuses for the inexcusable.

So do you, so what?

IRS Emails Backed Up by Outside Email Archiving Company : Freedom Outpost (http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/06/outside-email-archiving-company-backed-irs-emails/)

IRS Emails Backed Up by Outside Email Archiving Company

Tim Brown (http://freedomoutpost.com/author/tim/) June 21, 2014 (http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/06/outside-email-archiving-company-backed-irs-emails/)


On Friday, Mac Slavo reported on Congressman Darrell Issa's (R-CA) statement (http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/06/bombshell-know-whereabouts-lost-irs-emails/) in which he called the Internal Revenue Service's claim that Lois Lerner's hard drive crash resulted in a loss of emails "ridiculous." (http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/06/irs-claims-lost-lois-lerner-emails/) Most of us know that information from crashed hard drives can be recovered, though it costs a lot of money. However, as Mac pointed out (http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/06/bombshell-know-whereabouts-lost-irs-emails/), we could simply obtain a copy from the National Security Agency since they are collecting this kind of information. But something more telling has come to light: The IRS uses as an email archiving company to back up its emails.
That's right, Sonasoft, whose slogan is "email archiving done right" touts the IRS as a customer (http://www.sonasoft.com/company/customers/).
According to the website:
The world's leading companies rely on Sonasoft products to secure their operational data. Sonasoft's award winning disaster recovery software for Microsoft Servers: SonaVault, SonaExchange, and SonaSQL is known for ease of use and reliability for email archiving, backup, recovery, replication and migration needs.


In fact, according to Sonasoft (http://www.sonasoft.com/products/sonavault-email-archiving-software/), "When used in conjunction with Sonasoft's email archiving software, continuous email archiving can be achieved without the loss of emails even after the Primary Exchange Server switches over to the Standby Exchange Server."
The site goes on to pledge (http://www.sonasoft.com/products/sonavault-email-archiving-software/), "secure and guaranteed email archiving."
The website elaborates:
"The SonaVault Email Archiving software solution employs reliable safeguards including encryption to ensure that the email is tamper-proof without the possibility of being altered. Our secure archiving solution is achieved through encryption and hash calculations to determine the tampering of emails. SonaVault uses Microsoft's Journaling mechanism to extract and archive messages. This ensures that every message which goes out and enters an Microsoft Exchange Archiving Server is archived even if the message is deleted by the user from his or her mailbox."


While Congressman Paul Ryan (R-WI) told IRS Commissioner John Koskinen, "I don't believe it. That's your problem, nobody believes you," perhaps he should be looking to have Sonasoft subpoenaed for the backup of the emails they are asking for.

Personally, I don't trust Paul Ryan (and for obvious reasons (http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/04/paul-ryan-continues-lie-budget-cuts-balanced-budgets/)), but I'm more aggravated that he demonstrates frustration, but will not do the very thing that most of us Americans would do if we were in his shoes.

I use LiveDrive to backup my data (http://www.livedrive.com/?tid=6FD7J7JD&r=1), which is a super service based in England that has minimal cost to backup multiple computers for a flat fee per year. I have no trouble restoring crashed drives or virus-ridden drives from that service. How much more should a company be able to restore those emails that were allegedly erased due to a crash on federal computers?

Personally, I'm not buying that the hard drive crashed. It's simply too convenient.

In addition to Sonasoft, there are also recipients of Lois Lerner's emails, right? Has their hard drive's crashed? I doubt it. As Ben Barrack pointed out, the emails that are missing are probably the most damning as they may be linked to Malik Obama (http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/06/lost-lois-lerner-emails-white-house-may-obamas-brother/), Barack Hussein Obama's brother (http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/02/muslim-brotherhood-expert-obamas-brother-malik-obama-war-criminal-terrorist/) who is a financier of the Muslim Brotherhood (http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/08/barack-obamas-brother-malik-obama-directly-tied-to-muslim-brotherhood-lois-lerner-helped-provide-him-tax-exempt-status/).

So my question to Paul Ryan and other congressmen who claim to be after the truth is, why are you not subpoenaing these emails from the archives of SonaVault? If you aren't doing that, then you should not be trusted as a person who is after the truth, but is merely a political version of a WWF wrestler who plays the part when before the cameras, but when you're off camera you're having drinks with the enemies of America.

Smoothy that was so obvious, and too logical to argue with. I have to agree that the way to go is with the techs companies who contract to back up government files.

What I find appalling... is that so many people are completely oblivious to this... including elected officials who apparently have not asked a single individual who is. And not just the media. How many mentions of this have you saw on the news, the radio or read in a paper so far?

Actually most IT work in the Government, and such is subcontracted out. They have a few people that are supposed to oversea the subcontractors but most of the work is done by NON-GS employees. A lot of corporations do this as well.

I guess because they have either 3 or 5 year contracts to an outside company... if they don't meet expectations... someone else gets the contract... and they have no further obligations for any benefits, and anything else that goes with an actual employee.

Without being specific... they store these backups long term in vast climate controlled "caves" which were originally built to be cold war blast shelters, (to be intentionally vague) In the general region of Camp David.

here is the untold story here. The Repubic leadership is happy that the TP was targeted .That is why speaker Bonehead won't set up a select committee staffed with prosecutors ;and why he won't apply pressure to the WH to appoint an independent prosecutor .

OH, there is OBVIOUSLY a lot going on here... because I can't believe there are so many clueless people in power and in charge... self serving, biased, opinionated, idealistic yes... but clueless... no.

Makes you wonder what all of them are getting out of it if they are dancing around the issue without really adressing it head on.

smoothy din't be niaive they are politicians, they have their hand in the cookie jar

That's what I was implying.

Its obvious what stake the Democrats have in this, the question is...why aren't the Republicans taking full advantage of this? What stake do THEY have in this?

I know so say it

I can't say what stake the Republicans might have in this because I can't think of what it would be...

Its obvious the Democrats will stop at nothing legal or not to threaten and blackmail opponents... Hillary was caught red handed doing it with FileGate years ago. And that's over and above protecting their Messiah at all costs... for most of them anyway.

I'd like to know why the Republicans are dancing around the issue without getting too close. White house email backups will show Obamas part in this or are some other fictitious hard drives goig to "fail". And we know how lame an excuse that was.

Just like a kid caught standing on a chair in front of the cookie jar with a mouthfull of cookie with another half a one in their hand saying they didn't touch the cookies it was their brother or sister. Really weak excuse there too.

I told you why ..They saw their power threatened (think Cantor's defeat) by the TP . I could not say with confidence that the Repubic leadership wasn't complicit in the plot .

Based on how they have treated the tea party... that's a credible reason.

Quote smoothy

"I can't say what stake the Republicans might have in this because I can't think of what that would be".

That's an any easy one to answer because it has been canvassed over and over again. The clue is that it has something to do with ruling elites.

Possibly... its also extremely short sighted on their part if it proves to be true. Which it very will might.

TP does that still exist? Radical didn't do it for you the last time

The Compared to the DNC, the Tea Party are a bunch of Franciscan Monks.

so the DNC is the Inquisition to the TP Franciscan Monks, no, I would say the TP is somewhat more radical, something akin to the Cathars

The TP are just the latest reincarnation of the ultra right wing conservatives that existed even before Goldwater. Of course most of you are forgetting McCarthy and his witch hunts. Different name, same animal.

TP does that still exist? ask Eric Cantor if it exists. Thad Cochran in Mississippi is also facing a challenge from a TP candidate who will probably win today's primary . On a related note ;hopefully Charlie Rangel loses his primary today in NYC.

Do you REALLY believe that Tal? When you have a Democrat Party run by the Likes of Obama, Pelosi, Boxer, Reid... and the rest that make Lenin look like a conservative.

Hyperbole smoothy, beware of hyperbole do you honestly want a party run by a Bush or a Mccane or a Palin, by a Chaney

How old were you during Goldwater?

Barry Goldwater - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Goldwater)

Sounds like an earlier version of the Tea Party to me.

Johnson won by running possibly the sleeziest ad in American history .

"Daisy Girl" Rare 1964 Lyndon Johnson Political Ad -aired only once- 9/7/64 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Id_r6pNsus)

Clete, Nobody is as far right as those I mentioned are far left. JFK is spinning in his grave... and would be considered an extreme conservative by today's Democrat leadership.

And Reagan would be a RHINO, so what?

Hardly... how would that make Regan a RINO? When Bohner and Cantor are further to the left than Regan ever was. (which is the reason Cantor lost his seat and Bohner needs to worry about his)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Avfm2urqdHM

And the US Archivist testifying against the IRS serial perjurer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=y_cGDFpajRI

Negative inference is an implication based on material transposition. It is always a conditional implication.

Why didn't the dude just say that, instead of trying to beat someone over the head with a legal definition?

The archivist said at the beginning he's not a lawyer. It's not up to him to decide degrees of criminality resulting from failure to be notified.

I think there is a lot of clutching at straws going on

THey are by LAW required to ensure all emails are always available. THe Archivist, knows what is required... it doesn't require a law degree to understand or know.

THe IRS idiot... committed one perjury after another... by telling one bold faced lie after another.

And ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. Any cop or court in any country in the world will tell you this.

but ingorance starts at the top and the people but follow

Negative inference is an implication based on material transposition. It is always a conditional implication.

Why didn't the dude just say that, instead of trying to beat someone over the head with a legal definition?
The archivist said at the beginning he's not a lawyer. It's not up to him to decide degrees of criminality resulting from failure to be notified.

because the pomous a$$ political donor ,turned IRS commisioner made the claim to the committee that he had seen no evidence of criminal misconduct . Gowdy was just trying to determine on what basis he made such a claim. Turned out the commish was talking out of his a$$.

Lot of that about tom?

A lot of a$$ apparently.

yeah and a smart a$$ too . With a BA magna laude from Duke; a member of Phi Beta Kappa; a JD, laude, from Yale; and post-graduate work at Cambridge University, I guess John Koskinen never took course work in integrity or ethics . He expects us to believe that the IRS knew about the lost emails in February, but no one told him, the commissioner of the agency,until April .The emails that Congress had subpoenaed ,and he had promised to produce on March 26th .
They neglected to tell him that 2 years worth of emails went "missing " ;even after he had promised to produce them ????
So ok ,he found out in
April . It's now June. Why didn't he tell Congress when he found out ? When in April ? Well he can't recall according to his testimony . He said he was too busy because it was tax season ;so you know ...it just slipped his mind that the emails that Congress had subpoenaed ,and he promised to produce went 'missing ' .

Then we are told that the IRS which requires us to keep tax records for 7 years ,only keeps emails for 6 months ?

What we have here is obstruction of justice . I give you article 2 sec 1 of Nixon's impeachment charges.


Using the powers of the office of President of the United States, Richard M. Nixon, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in disregard of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has repeatedly engaged in conduct violating the constitutional rights of citizens, impairing the due and proper administration of justice and the conduct of lawful inquiries, or contravening the laws governing agencies of the executive branch and the purposed of these agencies.
This conduct has included one or more of the following:


He has, acting personally and through his subordinates and agents, endeavoured to obtain from the Internal Revenue Service, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, confidential information contained in income tax returns for purposed not authorized by law, and to cause, in violation of the constitutional rights of citizens, income tax audits or other income tax investigations to be intitiated or conducted in a discriminatory manner.

Then we are told that the IRS which requires us to keep tax records for 7 years ,only keeps emails for 6 months ?That sounds like a great sound bite but makes no sense when you actually take time to think about it. An individual has to keep 7 separate tax returns and the required documentation. Six months of emails for a government agency equates to terabytes of information.

Then we are told that the IRS which requires us to keep tax records for 7 years ,only keeps emails for 6 months

Thus we have the Authoritarian's Creed: Do as I say do, not as I do.

This same attitude immunizes Congressmen from the laws they pass and makes the President think he can get away with anything he wants to do.

Thus we have the Authoritarian's Creed: Do as I say do, not as I do.Read my post above yours, equating the two does not make sense.

You can't impeach a commissioner, you fire him, or charge him with a crime.

Remember the Valerie Plame witch hunt.. where it was determined there was no wrong doing in the end since it was proven her own husband outed her... yet Lewis Libby went to prison for offering contradictory testimony...

And that wasn't even as contradictory as the Criminals in the IRS have made over and over.

You can't impeach a commissioner, you fire him, or charge him with a crime. now wouldn't that depend on how high up the obstruction of justice cover up goes ? Could it go all the way to Emperor "no smidgeon of corruption" Zero ?

here is article 2 sec 4 of Nixon's impeachment charges :

He has failed to take care that the laws were faithfully executed by failing to act when he knew or had reason to know that his close subordinates endeavoured to impede and frustrate lawful inquiries by duly constituted executive, judicial and legislative entities concerning the unlawful entry into the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee, and the cover-up thereof, and concerning other unlawful activities including those relating to the confirmation of Richard Kleindienst as Attorney General of the United States, the electronic surveillance of private citizens, the break-in into the offices of Dr. Lewis Fielding, and the campaign financing practices of the Committee to Re-elect the President.

Tom, the Obama supporters don't want to be bothered by things like laws, The Constitution or Facts.

Read my post above yours, equating the two does not make sense.


On the contrary, your claim to terabytes of emails being a hardship is unsupportable. My laptop can store 2 Tb, my old desktop can store 16. Taking Commissioner Obstruction's testimony into account, the IRS has the storage capacity for 6 months of all it's correspondence, AND an outside storage contractor. That doesn't take into account the Federal Records Act, which REQUIRES every doodle and solitaire game be copied.

The IRS hired Sonasoft, to archive emails for long-term retrieval . That contract got canceled just weeks after Lois Lerner’s hard-drive failure ....right about the same time Congress began it's investigation. Coincidence ? I don't think so . Then they allegedly "recycled " her hard drive so that can't be retrieved either .

Now did Koskinen reveal all this in testimony ? uhh no .
Did the Congress specifically ask for this information ? Yes .

See question # 5 from House Oversight Committee chair Darrell Issa.


5. Please identify all vendors and outside contractors used by the IRS for the following purposes:
q. To develop, service, or maintain the IRS’s e-mail systems.
r. To develop, service, or maintain the IRS’s e-mail exchange servers.
s. To recycle or destroy IRS hard drives.
t. To provide mobile phone and data services.

IRS email controversy continues this week with two hearings - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/federal-eye/wp/2014/06/23/irs-email-controversy-continues-this-week-with-two-hearings/)

Maybe someone in the IRS neglected to give him this vital information too ? What does he have ? A no show job because he's a big Dem donor ?
REMINDER: IRS Commissioner John Koskinen is Major Democratic Donor | Washington Free Beacon (http://freebeacon.com/politics/reminder-irs-commissioner-john-koskinen-is-massive-donor-to-dems/)

"They are by law rquired to sensure all e mails are always available. The Archivist knows what is required... it doesn't require a law degree to understand or know"

Yes, everyone knows that Smoothy, but what I am saying is he can't determine the degree of criminality. You DO need a law degree for that.

"Gowdy was just trying to determine on what basis he made such a claim".

Yes Tom, and that basis was clearly established. He said he found no evidence and then he changed it to he and seen no evidence. It is pretty obvious that he did make any effort to look for evidence. A very weak defense. So what? This has already been established.

What is also obvious is that Gowdy is trying to hit him over the head time and time again with a Modus ponens argument. So what? This point has already been established.Time to move on and make some progress. No wonder nothing ever gets done.

he can't determine the degree of criminality. You DO need a law degree for that.
then he should've admitted that he was ignorantly blowing smoke when he made the absurd comment that he found no criminal activity in the IRS actions.

What is also obvious is that Gowdy is trying to hit him over the head time and time again with a Modus ponens argument. So what? This point has already been established.Time to move on and make some progress. No wonder nothing ever gets done.
Always the Dem last line of defense "nothing there ....move on " Koskinen could've just as easily conceded Gowdy's point that destroying evidence infers guilt and is certainly wrong doing ..even if it's unintentional .
I did not here anyone on the Dem side come to Scotter Libby's defense when a special prosecutor's relentless questioning tricked him into lying .

please, the dog actually did eat his homework!

I didn't actually say "nothing there....move on". I said, "move on."

my sentiments exactly! is there nothing new in your world?

"then he should've admitted he was ignorantly blowing smoke when made the absurd the absurd comment that he found no criminal activity in the IRS action."

Isn't that a reference to the Gowdy questioning?

what, you are expecting acknowledgement of source?

No, I thought Tom had confused the two tapes. Maybe he didn't, I'll have another look

Gowdy lectured Koskinen on the “negative inference” drawn by the inability of the IRS to retrieve these emails. He then pressed Koskinen on how he knows there was no criminal wrongdoing. Koskinen made the ridiculous claim that he was relying on “common sense”. He also admitted that he had no clue about the statutes that govern the handling of government emails. So it was important to establish beyond a doubt that the commish was obfuscating ,and perhaps participating in an obstruction of justice .

Tom never avoids going a bridge too far in his campaign

Tom

' Koskinen made the ridiculous claim that he was relying on "common sense" '


Yes, almost as ridiculous as the other dude saying the law of negative inference is based on common sense.

"So it is important to establish beyond doubt that the commish was obfuscating, and perhaps participating in an obstructing of justice."

He didn't establish anything beyond doubt. That's the whole point. Yes, he might be obstructing justice- on the other hand, he might not.

The political dude didn't establish anything beyond doubt, otherwise you wouldn't have said "perhaps" he was obstructing justice. He didn't establishing anything except your contention of a "perhaps." We already know this.

Hello ! That's why you have investigations and hearings ,to establish the facts. If you are being stonewalled at every attempt it is logical to infer guilt . It would be very easy to end that ...cooperate with the investigation much like the Bush adm did during the Plame investigation. If I were Gowdy or the head of the committee I'd be slapping Koskinen with contempt of Congress charges and have the Sgt at Arms of the Congress detain him until he produces the emails ;or an adequate explanation ...instead of his smug responses like "I gave up law for Lent " .

Hello Tom,

Would that be common sense logic to infer guilt, or some other logic?

Tom starts with guilt and works back, must have french ancestory

Here 's the logic .... American courts have responded to a party’s evidence tampering by allowing the opponent to argue to jurors that they should draw an adverse inference against the offending party in deciding the merits of the case. That was one of the key points in the OJ Simpson defense. Gowdy in a previous life was a prosecutor and know that .It has nothing to do with common sense . It's been part of Anglo jurisprudence since before we became a nation.

That's fine in front of a camera, until they hear the full story of the 67,000 additional emails reconstructed from the inboxes of her recipients for that time and submitted to congress that still show no evidence of collusion or wrongdoing, and the FACT that she did report her computer crashes before and on June 13th, 2011. Before there was any inquiry into the subject of investigating conservative applications, nor the further fact that tax exemptions need not be applied to before the end of the fiscal tax period.

None of this even takes into account the law says exclusive of political activity and the a statue was written in 1959 changing the language to primarily, and the statute has gone unchallenged, but cannot trump the original law. Add to that the FACT no conservative group has been denied, or adversely harmed because of this makes this a right wing uninformed witch hunt, based solely on hollering points.

You don't have to take my word for it, just sit back and see what's left after the hollering stops, and the facts are all that's left. Political theater notwithstanding.

More here.

The letter that supposedly led to the crash of Lois Lerner's hard drive - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/06/24/the-letter-that-supposedly-led-to-the-crash-of-lois-lerners-hard-drive)


This issue had first emerged in early May of 2011, when Ofer Lion, a tax adviser, sent a notice to clients (http://msk.com/news/pub.cfm?id=1278&type=Alerts) about the issue. The New York Times reported (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/13/business/13gift.html?_r=2&hp) on the issue on May 12, suggesting that the IRS effort would target donors to both liberal and conservative groups. Stephanie Kittredge, a spokeswoman for Roskam, and Sarah Swinehart, a spokeswoman for the Ways and Means Committee, defended the reference to the letter on the grounds that it was the first indication that the IRS was targeting conservative groups, though they conceded the letter does not actually mention conservative groups................“Then-acting Commissioner Steve Miller made the announcement that they were going to audit five donors for gift taxes early May 2011,” Swinehart said. “Also in May 2011, we started hearing from conservative groups that they were concerned that their donors were receiving audits/could be audited. We sent the letter and asked to see the files of the five individuals. The IRS and Miller knew who the five individuals were when the information was requested, and after reviewing the files with our 6103 authority we were able to see that these were conservative donors that were audited.”

Inference may be a lawyer tactic to influence jurors, but here the public opinion is what's being influenced.

No conservative goup was denided due to this... where do you get that information from Tal... when MOST of the conservative groups either encountered significant delays or outright refusals. If they had a certain word or words as part of their name.

The Compost fact checker needs to check the facts ;although I suspect he cherry picked his facts . Camp was not the only congressman asking questions .
Here is a letter sent to IRS Commish Shulman 2 weeks before the one that Glen Kessler cites .

In spite of [501(c)(4) organizations'] legal status and administrative approval, President Obama and his White House staff have made it clear that they view these organizations with deep hostility. The President himself, in a heated political context, referred to certain 501(c)(4) organizations as “a threat to our democracy.” His White House Communications Director, Dan Pfeiffer, charged that the “powerful interests” supporting some of these organizations “are literally buying elections.”
The United States Senate Committee on Finance: Newsroom - Ranking Member's News (http://www.finance.senate.gov/newsroom/ranking/release/?id=ec29441e-aefd-4192-a628-d96966cf4231)

I would like to seen the "fact checks " by Kessler on the myriad of White House and IRS officials' lies . I won't hold my breath .

They aren't shills for soft money? Yes they are running thinly veiled campaign ads, and coordinating the funneling of money to candidates with a wink or a nod. Illegal any way you cut it and erodes the integrity of the voting process. That's the real scandal Tom.

Obama states the obvious since SCOTUS open the floodgates and congress did NOTHING!!!!!!!!!

Citizens United was the correct constitutional call by SCOTUS

"Gowdy in a previous life was a prosecutor and knows it has nothing to do with common sense"

Tom, I also know this. If it has nothing to do with common sense (true) then why did Gowdy say, it is common sense? You and I know this, but apparently Gowdy doesn't.

He may have been a prosecutor in a previous life then it is anyone's guess what he is in this life.

review the transcript :


GOWDY: You have already said multiple times today that there is no evidence that you have found of any criminal wrongdoing. I want you to tell me what criminal statutes you have evaluated.
KOSKINEN: I have not evaluated any.
GOWDY: Then how can you possibly tell our fellow citizens that there's no criminal wrongdoing if you don't even know what statutes to look at?
KOSKINEN: Because I've seen no evidence that somebody consciously...
GOWDY: Well how would you know what elements of the crime exist if you don't even know what statutes are in play? I'm going to ask you again. What statutes have you evaluated?
KOSKINEN: Um, I think you can rely on common sense. Nothing I have seen...
GOWDY: Common sense instead of the criminal code? You want to rely on common sense?

as you see ;it was NOT Gowdy who made his case based on 'common sense' .

Thanks Tom. I did review the tape.

0-52 secs... [Gowdy].. so there is a negative inference than can be drawn from a failure to preserve the evidence. It is common sense- Right?

They both used that justification. I think this is what I said right at the beginning.

LOL, Tom it is Gowdy making an inference and NOT stating fact. A decision based on common sense doesn't have to be criminal and you know it. So does Gowdy. There is no one in the role of adversary to balance this line of attack, for the camera any way. In a courtroom, there would be.

Gowdy may want to treat this investigation as a trial, but its not. It's not a true investigation either, but an inquisition where the outcome is known.

so you are saying the a congressional oversight committee with the power of subpoena and the power to recommend criminal indictments is not conducting an investigation ?
The inference he is making is all very much part of our historical common law . But the law doesn't apply when there is a Dem in power .

As you are the opposition, what makes you think YOU cannot be opposed? You claim, I counterclaim. Nothing personal.

Photos were recently found of the leading Democrats who mastermined IRSGate. Believing their tactics were beyond reproach.

46209

I thought they looked familiar,

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/avatars/smoothy.gif?dateline=1190913286

No.. word has it those are either Nancy pelosis kin... or Harry Reids.

NOW it gets real:

Meet Judge Sullivan, Who Once Sicced a Special Prosecutor On the DOJ | New York Observer (http://observer.com/2014/06/breaking-meet-emmet-sullivan-irs-judge-who-once-sicced-a-special-prosecutor-on-doj/)

I don't think it does .Like most things it has political motivation, That's why nothing ever gets done. I suspect in the end the whole business will roll over in the form of a civil prosecution.

oh there will be civil cases at a minimum. It's no secret that I think this case will only be fairly dealt with by the appointment of an independent prosecutor . I did not consider the possibility of a judge doing it ;especially one from the DC district .
I think in fact that the emperor should appoint one . Since he's so convinced that there was not a "smidgeon of corruption" ,then an independent prosecutor would verify that claim. Then the emperor could gloat as he did yesterday with reason.
Obama denounces 'phony scandals' (http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2014/06/27/obama-phony-scandals-irs-benghazi-minneapolis-town-hall/11449373/)

Now's his chance .Put up or shut up emperor ! 3/4 of the people don't believe the circumstances they've been peddling about the reason behind the "missing" e-mails . He's lost all claim to integrity and his so called "most transparent administration" .

What are you going to do? Sue the Prez you have been hollering about but can't pin down after 6 years of trying EVERYTHING? All these investigations have raised tons of money, and gotten a bunch of press but yielded NOTHING, and no action.

Now you want him to bring a rope to his own lynching, while he mocks you and your guys efforts. While I like the scrutiny of the major institutions, no progress is being made to resolve real issues, just feeding the frenzy of your loony base. Great theater, no governance. But governance isn't what the republican base wants in the first place. Never did, they want red meat, and power over the established repubs. Feed them or they will eat you guys alive.

All these investigations have raised tons of money, and gotten a bunch of press but yielded NOTHING, and no action.
yes investigations become costly and take time when the people being investigated are permitted by the justice dept and the executive to stonewall and obstruct justice with impunity .

Submit evidence not allegations.

already did .

I know public servants are supposed to be a-political but get used to it, in a polarised electorate they have opinions and allegiences and they do their bit, bidden or unbidden

to use the power that the IRS wields on political opponents turns the government into a tyranny .

maybe, but law is law and the IRS has the right to investigate where deductability is claimed. That they might have been a little selective, well, there is a lot of poor judgement about and it isn't confined to politicians. perhaps that selectivity existed because they had experience in how to identify those bogus claims

The problem you have is you see a smoking gun everywhere. Tell me when you were a kid did you yell tyranny when you got you hand caught in the cookie jar

That they might have been a little selective, well, there is a lot of poor judgement about and it isn't confined to politicians. perhaps that selectivity existed because they had experience in how to identify those bogus claims

The equal protection clause of the 14th amendment reads :
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Targeting groups solely because of their political affiliation denies them equal protection .


Tell me when you were a kid did you yell tyranny when you got you hand caught in the cookie jar None of the groups targeted were charged with any wrong doing . The purpose of this persecution was to deny them their legal status under the law until after the 2012 elections.

As I see it Tom you are hiding behind a whole lot of excuses

as I see it ,the Obama adm is stonewalling and covering up a criminal act .

Look Tom this is a fishing expedition, Benghazi is a fishing expedition, charges are a whole other ball game

The equal protection clause of the 14th amendment reads :
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Except if you are gay a woman, black, brown, or NON Christian.


Targeting groups solely because of their political affiliation denies them equal protection .

All should be investigated equally. No exceptions.

All should be investigated equally. No exceptions.exactly but that isn't what happened.

What you are saying Tom is that unless every suspect is prosecuted at the same time, no one should be prosecuted, unless everyone is investigated at the same time noone should be investigated. All offenses are individual Tom not collective and that clause is talking about the protections of the law such as being on your ordinary and lawful occasion whereas these organisation were formed for political purposes and wanted protection from income tax, something they were not entitled to

no what I'm saying is that if ANY political /charitable group is given the tax protected status then ALL should be treated the same . If they are targetting conservative groups exclusively then those groups are not getting equal protection of the law. The real problem here is that the IRS became an extention of the Obama /Democrat campaign in the 2012 election .

No Tom what happened is the neat little plan got nipped in the bud, some of tyose good ole boys were just a little obvious. what's the point of being in government if you can't give advice and direction to departments under your control

and I'll repeat that in 1973 ,using the IRS to target political opponents was considered an impeachable offense .

You haven't proven Obama used the IRS to target conservative groups.

Its in the emails that they are refusing to turn over Obama is behind all of this. And nobody that knows anything believes they are "lost". Its left wing loons protecting each other and their messiah.

So your whole case rests on emails you don't have, that might implicate the president. Good luck.

whole case rests on emails you don't have

Actually, the case rests on the emails they DO have. The crime is already established. The emails they don't have indicate the defendant.

Those emails exist... those people are in contempt... and before this is over.. people WILL be going to jail... and a lot of people are going to be unemployed. Which is exactly as it should be.

so another gvt bureaucrat had her email erased with a hard drive crash. This one works for the Federal Election Commission. and as a coincidence ,Lois Lerner used to be her boss. You can't make this stuff up !!!

Her name is April J. Sands, a lawyer at FEC . The problem is that she spent a significant part of her day campaigning for the emperor ,and other Dems ,soliciting contributions in complete violation of the Hatch Act via Twitter .The Hatch Act is a law that bans such politicking by Federal Employees on the job. She resigned in April after the FEC Inspector General began an investigation. That's when it was discovered that the agency had destroyed the evidence.(ooops I mean "recycled" ). The U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Columbia declined criminal prosecution after the evidence was destroyed .

Now we know that Lerner did communicate with the FEC about the groups she was targeting . Could it be that April Sands' computer had that evidence in it ? I think so.

a great deal of intrigue about investigating the bona fides of organisations set up to circumvent the law, such howls of indignation when they are caught. the problem with political processes are they were never intended to be fair or even handed, or even to have the appearence of being unbiased. as I have said before what is the purpose of government if not to give direction to departments? but to think that the president has to be the source of every detail is rediculous

the democratic process aint worth squat if the person in power can manipulate it with impunity using the instruments of the government. If this was Venezuela then we would rightly be ridiculing a 'banana republic' .

That it is being done on behalf of the President itself is criminal. That is a given. It needs to be vigorously investigated to see how far up the executive branch it goes. That we know as much as we do ;with the stonewalling of the administration and the compliant press by itself is telling .
I'll say it again ...... Congress was prepared to impeach Nixon on charges that he THOUGHT of using the IRS against his political opponents .

The democratic process is an abberation. democracy is a process where everyone gets to express an opinion. The only opinion you are allowed to express in your system is a preference for a candidate, beyond that you only have constitutional guarantees which means a court challenge when wrong doing is perceived and there is evidence. It seems that in this case you have a great deal of perception and very little evidence. Your Congress is a paper tiger, if they had a shred of evidence they would impeach the President but what is the point if you can render the President impotent

No this is a great deal of bull and a lot of bluster, something akin to the birth creditentials of the President

if they had a shred of evidence they would impeach the President ... actually impeachment is an exercise in futility . There have been 3 Presidents subject to the impeachment process. Nixon resigned .... Andrew Johnson and Bubba were impeached ;but the Senate did not convict.
Impeachment may have been a powerful and useful tool before the 12th Amendment ,when the candidate with the 2nd largest electoral college vote bacame VP . But now ? It is just a historical curiosity . Nixon may have actually been convicted because he lost his own party support. But that is a rarity . The imperial Presidency was given birth with the 12th Amendment ;and the only change made to reign the executive in was when term limits came after Roosevelt.

There is no doubt that Congress cannot effectively check the power on it's own . They need the cooperation of an Attorney General with some integrity . They need assistance from the judiciary . But when courts routinely rule that Congress has no standing to even sue the President then what power do you think they wield ?

Guess without 2/3rds of the legislature you can do nothing but holler, scream, and call names. Those founders were smart people to not let just one party, a minority, rule. It's a collective effort, or NOTHING. So that's what we have... NOTHING!

(except hollering, screaming, and calling names!!).

Figured out how it works yet?

and you support a rogue Presidency; defending the indefensible .

THe 2/3 criminal occupation won't last... and the statute of limitations won't be running out soon enough for any of them. They should be prosecuted... found guilty and jailed for a significant period of their remaining lifespan.

You had a 3/3 for two years and what did you do with it? Ram obamacare down our throats without a vote something the vast majority HATE and don't want....and quadruple the national debt?

THats something to be embarrased by...not proud of.

>YAWN< Dream on!!

Elections are coming soon... and another in 2016 where President Poo Pile will finally be out of office, so will his chief protector Eric Holder... neither will be abusing the American legal system and criminal justice system to suit their own desires any longer.. and will be subject to the varius laws they were ignoring or breaking.\
Whats that old saying....what goes up, must come down? Namely both of their ego's. Neither have a reputation left to save.

Just figured out why the righties holler and scream so much. Like stinky farts there is more room out than in. I finally understand and hope you get help.

Just figured out why the righties holler and scream so much. Like stinky farts there is more room out than in. I finally understand and hope you get help.

So far we've had 3 (that I know of) Dems equate the border crisis to the Holocaust. Every lib from coast to coast is having a stroke over the Hobby Lobby ruling, the Koch brothers and those evil Joos in Israel. Reality is calling, Tal.

Islamic extremism is all Bushes fault don't you know... he invented a time machine , went back and kicked Mohammed in the balls and started it all, then came back to the present day.

at last a rational explanation

We now know that the IRS lied in multiple congressional sessions and under oath to a Federal Judge. In an affidavit to Fed District Judge Reggie Walton ,the IRS stated that Lois Lerner's computer was destroyed and recycled.....basically the same testimony from Commissioner John Koskinen to Congress. You know ,the one that says that IRS computer experts had recommended that they be recycled because the data was not retrievable .
BUT ,House Ways and Means Committee investigators said that they had a chance to talk to the experts who actually examined Lerner's computer, and they said the hard drive merely "scratched" and most of the data on it was recoverable. The experts had recommended that the IRS seek outside help to recover the data.
The IRS did not seek that help .Instead ,according to their testimony ,they "recycled "the hard drive ie destroyed it.
So Koskinen went to Congress Wednesday ,and AGAIN changed his story . Now he says that the backup tapes POSSIBLY containing the emails have been found . Of course he has no idea how that happened ,or if there is any of the emails in them .

Hello again, tom:

Yeah, the IRS sucks.. But, I don't care about that... I care about a CORRUPT presidency. If you can't CONNECT the bad, bad, irresponsible, even corrupt IRS behavior to Obama, I'm BORED..

excon

in time .... gotta get past the cover up and obstruction of justice. Maybe Judge Walton will appoint a truly independent prosecutor .

I think this one has been done to death Tom bigger fish to fry

not even started yet . Watergate happened in the spring of 1972 . Nixon wasn't forced to resign until August 1974 .....and that is with a press that was doing it's job , a Congress that was able to overcome the cover-ups ,a judiciary that forced the issue ;and a truly independent prosecutor .

different days Tom

yes back then there was a press that wasn't the propaganda Dept for the Presidency .
Back then articles of impeachment were drafted and voted on because the President considered using the IRS against his political opponents . Back then 2 AGs resigned rather than carrying water for a corrupt President .

Back then they acted and not just HOLLERED. Why are you so surprised nobody is helping you holler, or act. Pretty obvious Tom, you have to do more than just holler, so do it, or shut up!

HINT: You can't just holler about EVERYTHING, and produce NOTHING! You haven't PROVED corruption, just hatred.

Back then they acted and not just HOLLERED and if Nixon had destroyed the tapes they would have had nothing on him either . I'm not hollering ;just presenting the facts . But you are putting on your best Nixon impression and repeating over and over again "I'm not a crook" . More proof of a cover-up ....The top White House political adviser David Simas refused again Friday to honor a congressional subpoena. The Oversight Committee voted to reject the White House’s claim that Simas has absolute immunity from a subpoena from Congress.

One thing I would do would be to not allow Elijah Cummings to sit in on Committee hearings related to this case since it is a conflict of interest . Cummings wrote a letter to the IRS asking them to target T Party organizations.

And that Obamacare won't determine who gets treated and who doesn't by what their political affiliation is.

even for you that's a bridge too far

And the libtards finally admit to what we have been saying all along... they are a bunch of bold faced liars who can't be trusted to give the time of day.

Lies Exposed: DOJ Admits “Missing� IRS Emails DO Exist - (http://www.dcclothesline.com/2014/08/26/lies-exposed-doj-admits-missing-irs-emails-exist/)

More dcclothesline crap... nothing to see here. Plus the use of the term "libtard" marks the user as one of little intelligence.

Get stuffed... its far more accurate then anything YOU post or is on the Canadian Propaganda outlets. Its amazing the total crap you believe on faith...and the stuff you discount when overwelming proof is put in front of you.

On faith? I'm an atheist! :-)
You're angry...

Judicial Watch Statement on Discovery of Backups for “Missing” Lois Lerner IRS Emails (http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/backups-for-missing-lois-lerner-irs-emails/)

AUGUST 25, 2014

(Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch announced the following developments in the IRS' missing emails investigation. Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton stated:
Department of Justice attorneys for the Internal Revenue Service told Judicial Watch on Friday that Lois Lerner's emails, indeed all government computer records, are backed up by the federal government in case of a government-wide catastrophe. The Obama administration attorneys said that this back-up system would be too onerous to search. The DOJ attorneys also acknowledged that the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration (TIGTA) is investigating this back-up system.
We obviously disagree that disclosing the emails as required would be onerous, and plan to raise this new development with Judge Sullivan.
This is a jaw-dropping revelation. The Obama administration had been lying to the American people about Lois Lerner's missing emails. There are no “missing” Lois Lerner emails – nor missing emails of any of the other top IRS or other government officials whose emails seem to be disappearing at increasingly alarming rate. All the focus on missing hard drives has been a diversion. The Obama administration has known all along where the email records could be – but dishonestly withheld this information. You can bet we are going to ask the court for immediate assistance in cutting through this massive obstruction of justice.
Here is the second set of sworn declarations (http://www.judicialwatch.org/document-archive/jw-v-irs-01559-executed-declarations/) by IRS officials in response (http://www.judicialwatch.org/document-archive/jw-v-irs-1-13-cv-01559/) to Judge Emmet G. Sullivan's investigation into the missing emails of Lois Lerner and other IRS officials. The declarations were provided after close of business on Friday, August 22.
The first meeting was held this afternoon by Magistrate Judge John M. Facciola, who was appointed by Judge Emmet G. Sullivan to manage and assist in discussions between Judicial Watch and the IRS about how to obtain any missing records which have been the subject of longstanding Judicial Watch Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests and lawsuit (Judicial Watch v. IRS (https://mail.judicialwatch.org/owa/redir.aspx?C=3dd71673e6bf4faaa167f28b08d18429&URL=http%3a%2f%2fwww.judicialwatch.org%2fdocument-archive%2fmotion-status-conference%2f) (No. 1:13-cv-1559)).
Judge Sullivan has encouraged Judicial Watch to submit a request for limited discovery into the missing IRS records after September 10.



As far as the ACTUAL papers filed with the court.....sworn documents...not BS crap from some libtard reporter....they are at this link. Read them and weep liberals who believed what they have been telling lies about before now.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/JW-v-IRS-01559-Executed-Declarations.pdf

So what bit of text in that PDF testimony is the smoking gun?

So files are backed up somewhere, what a surprise

Its obvious to anyone that has followed this story . Louis Lerner and a number of other Obama Administration officials LIED claiming the emails no longer existed and that they were lost and destroyed with the fictitious "hard drive failures".

All of those are Perjury... and a crime that requires significant jail time.

And Clete...thats what I've been saying all along from the beginning....as well as others.

Still trying to prove the sky is falling by running in circles and hollering? As per your other post on people getting DUMBER, I will tie this obsession with narrow minded ultra conservative thinking, influenced by the inability to evolve and accept more facts and changing conditions.

Don't be scared to pick up the soap when you are alone in the shower syndrome. Getting wet is not getting clean. I would suggest a body wash, but your suspicious mind would find a liberal plot in it and heaven forbid the idea of a soap dish being a solution.

Ever wonder why soap is harder to hold once it gets wet, and the tighter you grip it the harder it is to wash your a$$? Of course you don't.

Tal... putting your fingers in your ears while chanting lalalalalallalalal doesn't change the fact this administration is full of criminals that should be behind bars for a number of crimes... now including perjury like so many others were in the past... and the countless numbers in prison NOW for committing the very same crimes.

Tal you ask us to contemplate the strangest things

I read the PDF smoothy - I was wondering if you could point out to me the incriminating part of it. Did you read it?

To start with casually glancing through #5, #7, #12, #14 of Steven Mannings declaration are in direct conflict with IRS officials previous claims. And these were not the sole supporting documents if you read the entire article... There were just Afifdavits of people NOT at the hearings where the rest came out under oath.

At first glance, #5 and #7 - that's just the standard set-up of a BB, they are IMAP-only devices. Same setup as any organization using the BES synch Outlook/Exchange to BB devices, including ours. What do you see there that seems wrong?

#12 and #14 - he is simply stating the internal policy.

And its been a matter of Federal law for many years that ALL electronic Emails, texts etc... are to be archived. (archives are not on live hard drives) dating back several administrations as early Regan or shortly after. Hard copy stuff was legally required to be retained much further back than Regan. So its not a new thing still getting the bugs sorted out And it shows that everything on her Blackberry as well as he computers... WILL and legally should be on those archives as mandated by law.

So that testimony really didn't offer any new information then. Yet your source and yourself provide it as damning evidence.

I was trying to break it down in simpler terms Clete, so the closed minded could grasp the concept of receiving more information and modify the pattern of old thinking that keeps you dumb. More than one way to skin a cat, (if that's your kink) and if the horse won't drink the water after someone leading him to it... then you must wait until he is thirsty enough before riding into the desert.

In other words, waiting for YOU ultra conservatives to catch up. But you sit and worry when will the volcano blow up?

Waiting for you to catch up so we don't have to drag you kicking and screaming into reality. Relax and have some humor instead of hollering, b1tching, and screaming.

THere is a lot more to the story than those affidavits alone, those were just one part of the evidence. Much of its on video, and these lawyers did this all in court, under oath, and Liying to COngress is legally no different than lying in court...

Richard Nixon should be made a saint because he did NOTHING compared to this.

<yawn>

So you have pictures to go with your hollering? So do cartoons. When does the movie start?

Ample proof of the lies, Perjury, and criminal activities the Obama Administration will be known for decades if not centuries to come.

You have such faith that all this is happening, even when your "proof" turns out to be nothing.

Its not faith.. its reality... Liberals have faith that if you tell a lie enough times.. it becomes the truth... Which dates back to socialist docterine... All the manage to do is convince themselves... lies don't change reality... they are a halfassed attempt to divert attention from reality.

It doesn't work any more than when a scared teenage girl tries to pretend she's really not pregnant....despite the ever growing baby bump....Lies are only temporary the truth always finds its way out. And this administration doesn't have much longer, and they won't be able to abuse the system to hold off justice from happening much longer.

So the cartoon won't be coming out soon? Well stop advertising and teasing the rest of the wingers. Make Nixon a saint and get on with it.

Liberals have faith that if you tell a lie enough times.. it becomes the truthBut this is exactly what you are doing - can't you see that?

Just because they holler doesn't mean they can hear. Quite the opposite NK. Understand? Hold off on the popcorn until they get past Nixon.

You live by that... the fact is Obama lies about everything... So do his minions... Nothing YOU can say will change it... neither can Tal... fact is the truth is coming out... even his own people are fed up with his arrogance and lies and are turning on him. He should be in jail along with most of his administration. Adn many of them likely will before this is over.

Backup of Lois Lerner's 'lost' emails has been found - Houston Politics | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/article/backup-of-lois-lerner-s-lost-emails-has-been-found)

The Examiner, is a owned and run by The Washington Times.....not a two bit outfit like the Washington ComPost.

The Washington Times - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Times)


It was founded in 1982 by the founder of the Unification Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_Church), Sun Myung Moon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon), and until 2010 was owned by News World Communications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_World_Communications), an international media conglomerate associated with the church

Read the whole history.

And the point is?

Tal doesn't like them because they were never part of the lamestream liberal media establishment. And they weren't involved in suppressing the truth and facts about OweBama to help get him elected twice by keeping so many people in the dark about what was really happening.

Warren Buffet opposes the Keystone Pipeline to transport the crude from Canada to refineries in the southern USA... Know why? Buffet is HEAVILY invested in the Railroad that is transporting the oil now... He's making a bundle on transporting oil. Won't hear the lame stream media telling that to everyone because he's one of them.

So the argument comes down to a billionaire is a successful lobiest, well, who would have thought, now, back to reality. The days of the great black hope are passing, very soon he will enter the lame duck phase of his presidency, so his time to get anything done and leave his mark are short. I have noticed the clamour about the ACA has faded, even Benghazi has faded in the light of there being bigger fish to fry and the attention is on the international scene and not on internal navel gazing

More about your "credible" source.

Sun Myung Moon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon)


Sun Myung Moon (Korean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_language) 문선명; born Mun Yong-myeong; 25 February 1920 – 3 September 2012) was a Korean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korea) religious leader, business magnate and media mogul.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon#cite_note-NYT_OBIT-1)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon#cite_note-PBS_Obit-2) A self-proclaimed messiah (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah), Moon was the founder of the Unification Church (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_Church) and of its widely noted "Blessing" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blessing_Ceremony_of_the_Unification_Church) or mass wedding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_wedding)ceremony.[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon#cite_note-NPR_Obit-3)[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon#cite_note-usatoday2012-09-02a-4) Moon's extensive business interests included News World Communications (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_World_Communications), an international news media (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_media)corporation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation)[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon#cite_note-Columbia_Journalism_Review-5) which founded The Washington Times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Washington_Times) and owns other media in several countries,[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon#cite_note-Columbia_Journalism_Review-5)[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon#cite_note-Yahoo.21_Finance_profile-6)[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon#cite_note-7) and Tongil Group (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongil_Group), a South Korean (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Korean) business group (chaebol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaebol)) active in manufacturing, pharmaceuticals, tourism, and publishing.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon#cite_note-jad2010-8)[9] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon#cite_note-nyt1998-9)[10] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Myung_Moon#cite_note-fm2010-10)

I thought you didn't like messiahs? You never said you were a moonie. For the record, conservative media is LAME! That was my point Clete.

Basically all media is lame and self serving. As far as messiahs are concerned I follow only one and he is non political. I don't share your hope in Owbama or in left wing politics but then right wing politics doesn't offer a lot either.

Damn, there's another splinter

Well, what business has Obama ever successfully started or run his entire life? I see extreme jealousy over Sun Myung Moon's very successful endeavors. And ulike the lefty press... they weren't thinly vieled propaganda outlets... and he never tried to hide anything about his life from anyone... unlike OweBama who has been deceptive about everything in his.

Once again much ado about nothing, have you guys been taking lessons from Seinfield

Do conservative wake up hollering about stuff EVERYDAY? Or is it leftovers from last night? I suspect a lot of BOTH!

I really don't care about the rich guy, and his religious conservative friends. Or their rag cult endeavors.

Tal... you are the one doing that here... what did that bit about the history of Sun Myong Moon have to do with the price of rice in China? Except prove he succeeded at many things while Obama succeeded only at being acon-artist.

what did that bit about the history of Sun Myong Moon have to do with the price of rice in ChinaBecause his newspaper is where you get your information... and you're proud of it. (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/irs-scandal-749229-49.html#post3682444)

Smoke signals again, must be the native american heritage

Because his newspaper is where you get your information... and you're proud of it. (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/irs-scandal-749229-49.html#post3682444)

My news sources are far more reliable than yours are. After all The National Equirer, The Colbert Report and Jonhn Stewart, not to mention SNL... where apparently you get yours aren't known for being objective, or accurate much less honest.

Ok. I love how you live in a made up world. Sounds exciting!

Speaking as someone probibly posting from an Igloo in there great white north... far from the hub of any real activity... being spoon fed everythign By Ottowa, yeah... right... YOU somehow have your finger on the pulse of the world being as far from it as you are?

LOL, you think Canadians live in igloos. You perpetuate a certain american stereotype. Can't even spell our capital properly either.

Don't much care either... I don't have any plans on going there anytime in the future. Even though my wifes cousin worked there the last time I talked to him.

Suuuuuuure.

Lerner's Blackberry was cleaned out in a move that was clearly an obstruction of justice . One of the top IRS lawyers is facing debarment over lying about the scandal . It's getting closer and closer to the White House.

Lerner's Blackberry was cleaned out in a move that was clearly an obstruction of justiceThere's no email that lives on a Blackberry. Any other straws to grasp at?

it was destroyed with no attempt by the IRS to back up the information in it . Read the testimony here
http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/JW-v-IRS-01559-Executed-Declarations.pdf

I think you need to:
a) read a few pages back on this thread
b) understand the technology before you use it as a smoking gun

smoking gun ? Naah just another piece of the puzzle . If there was any integrity in the emperor's court then an independent prosecutor would've already been appointed .

There is nothing to see here, move on

Hello again, tom:


It's getting closer and closer to the White House.

Yawwwwn... Wake me when we get there...

excon

OWEbama is behind all of this... He and Eric holder won't be able to obstruct justice much longer. Justice WILL be served.

Justice WILL be servedWhen will that be smootherman?

He's out in 2016... and so will Holder... but maybe Harry Ried will have a stroke or something before then and free up the logjam.

But if we win control of the senate this year in the mid term elections...we won't have to wait that long.

Should be a slam dunk then.