Hello, I just followed the instructions to drain, clean, and refill my gas hot water heater here:

http://www.instructables.com/id/water-heater-maintenance/

After finishing, I seem to have no hot water pressure whatsoever. The water input is open, and (when turned on), hot water comes out of the pressure release valve AND the bottom drain. However, none seems to go through the house pipes and none comes out of any tap in the house. Cold water works fine.

I have tried emptying it completely, opening a hot tap in the house, and refilling the tank from scratch to try and get rid of any vapor lock, but it didn't work. When I tried that, air sputtered out of the faucet for awhile and I thought I must be getting somewhere, but eventually that just stopped and water still did not come out of the tank.

Here are two pics of my tank:

http://i.imgur.com/H3r1tA1.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UPJGVXj.jpg

Any ideas before I break down and call a plumber? :( Deeply regretting ever performing "yearly maintenance" on my hot water heater, because I can already predict that someone will just try to sell me a new one.

I couldn't get to your maintenance instructions but from what you say I disagree with them.

Hello, I just followed the instructions to drain
You flush the heater under pressure, not simply drain it,

yearly maintenance on gas water heater Much too long a time. You should flush your heater every month or so to remove sediment build up.
My guess would be that you left your heater without proper maintenance that the build up has entered your system and is now clogging up the inlet ports on your faucet cartridges or perhaps you have heat trap nipples that are clogged,
Let me show you how we maintenance our heaters.



For long life and fewer troubles you should keep your heater clear of mineral build-up by FLUSHING NOT DRAINING on a regular schedule.

Attach a hose to the boiler drain at the bottom of the tank. With the pressure on, open the boiler drain and let it run until the water runs clear. You will see a spurt of red,(rust) followed by white or yellow grains,(lime or calcium carbonate). This shouldn't take more then a few minutes.

Do this monthly to keep it clear. Now flush out your hot water lines on ALL fixtures that are affected . Now pull each aerator and clean the screens. Be sure you put them back together the same way you took them out. Don't forget to flush it out every month. Your heater will thank you for it. Hope this helps and thank you for rating my answer,

Tom

Do you by any chance have these flood safe type faucet supply lines?

See
FloodSafe® Automatic Water Shutoff Connectors - New Products - Watts (http://www.watts.com/pages/whatsnew/floodsafe_connectors.asp)

Hi speedball, thanks for the advice. How do I flush out the hot water lines after I have pressure flushed the tank?

An "aerator" is the screen filter on every tap, right?

If the heat trap nipple(s) have become clogged, is there a method to unclog them without dismantling the entire water heater?

Hi hkstroud, thanks for the idea. I do not believe so though - there are just copper pipes attached to the water heater.

No, look at the supply lines between the valve and the faucet. If I read your post correctly you do not have hot water anywhere.
Pipes do not get blocked by debris, only valves. If you do not have any valves on the hot water output line between the water heater and where it branches off to different places (normally you would not) there must be something else preventing hot water at each faucet.

This type of supply line is suppose to stop water in case the supply line bust. Something that does not happen. I suspect that when you relieved all the pressure while flushing the water heater these devices thought the supply line had burst and shut off the flow. Check under each sink. Look for the device on the end of the supply line where it connects to the stop valve.

From the pic it does not look like you have heat trap nipples.

That's correct, no hot water anywhere. And that's correct, there are no valves on the hot water output. I am at work at the moment, but I will check for that item elsewhere in the lines when I get home.

..

Would this floodsafe gadget also prevent air from escaping from the taps? When I have drained the tank, left hot tap(s) open (with cold taps closed) elsewhere in the house, and then refilled, air has been able to escape these taps.

No. If you find you have these flood safe type supply lines, and I think you will.
Turn off the stop valve, disconnect the supply line from the stop valve and then reconnect it. That is suppose to reset it.

Personally, I would discard and replace them with regular braided supply lines. A case of the cure being worse than the disease.

My concern now is that if you're right, the tubs in the house are also not allowing hot water to flow and I don't have access to those lines other than the ones directly available in my furnace room. I'm very interested (and nervous) to see what I have on my hands when I get home.

You said, "hot water comes out of the pressure release valve AND the bottom drain"...

Water shouldn't come out of the bottom drain no matter what reason anyone here presents!

SHUT THE BOTTOM DRAIN to start. Next, water out the relief valve, and HOT WATER no less, would require the water to get heated up first. IS that what is happening, water goes into the heater and then after awhile it gets hot and is releaded through the temperature and pressure relief valve? If so then we can help with ideas! If not, and water is just releasing as fast as you send it in then dflip the lever on the temp. and pressure relief valve and make sure it seats. If it won't seat the temp. and pressure relief valve needs to be replaced. Did you touch this valev when draining the heater??

Back to you...

Mark

Haha. I only meant that IF I open the bottom drain and/or pressure relief valve, water will come out, not that they are open all of the time. And it is only hot IF I have lit the gas heater, which I have left unlit while I am troubleshooting my pressure problem. I only said this to demonstrate that water is going into the hot water heater when the water-in valve is open and the heater's primary purpose, to heat, is still functioning.

During my "no pressure" problem, the drain and the pressure relief valve are both closed (but if I choose to open them, water will come out, showing that there is water in the tank) but water is not exiting the taps. I did touch the pressure relief valve during draining but only to release the pressure so that the water could drain.

Your are confused. The supply lines are the little flexible tubes (pipes) that connect the faucets and toilets to the valve that is on the pipes that come out of the wall. They are located in the cabinets beneath the faucets and at the toilets.

There rest of the pipes are just pipes.

If you would like you can just take a picture of the pipes under the cabinet.

Oh I fully admit I am no plumber. As a total layman to this terminology, I'm just doing the best I can. :) I think I get you now though - I took "supply lines" to just be synonymous with "pipes". I understand a little better now I think.

With that knowledge, though, do you think it likely that my tubs would have a Floodsafe? Because I am also not getting hot water at the tubs, and like I said I don't really have access to the tub's pipes. I don't know, maybe you can't really say. The only way for me to tell might be to see if I have Floodsafes elsewhere in the house.

Edit - and yes, I may take a photo of the pipes under some sinks when I get home this evening, so you can tell me what you think. I sure appreciate all of this help.

My logic doesn't make sense for the tub. Take the pic and let's see. It's about the only reason I can think of for all of you faucets to not have hot water. A normal tub or shower would not be connected using this kind of supply tube.

As I stated earlier pipes don't get stopped up from debris. If you have debris in a pipe it can be carried by the water to the next valve and stop up the valve because the opening through the valve is smaller than the pipe. For that to be your problem there would have to be a valve on the hot water line before the line splits off going to the different places in the house. Normally you wouldn't have a valve like that and if you did it would be highly unlikely you could stop up a 3/4" valve.

Take the photos and lets see.

Ok, here are some pictures of a sink in my house. I checked all three (1 kitchen, 2 bath), they are all like this except for the kitchen has one side valve that leads to the dishwasher - the valve is off the pipe though, and would not be obstructing the pipe to the sink tap.

http://i.imgur.com/DlUcc9A.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NKZwGb8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/00M6EGV.jpg

As you can see, there is no Floodsafe, just the pipe. I looked all around my furnace room for a Floodsafe looking thing also, but saw nothing.

I'm currently running a flush as per speedball1's suggestion, and there is a minor amount of debris still. I've let that run for about half an hour. I'm hoping that maybe it's slowly wearing away at a plug, or something? If this doesn't work, I think my next step is to drain the entire system and then disconnect the hot-water-out pipe, and see if there is a physical obstruction in the immediate pipe up/down...

One last note, thank you so much again for the replies.

No, doesn't look like the flood safe supply lines. You don't even have stop valves to get blocked. I can see why you didn't know what I was talking about when I said supply lines.

Show us pics of the rest of the piping that you can see.

Hello Lorensandboe,

I read all the responds and good advices from the experts I would like to add my 2 cents, if you have problem with hot water only I would suggest to close the inlet Shut off valve at the heater drain some water through the drain valve at the bottom now disconnect the hot outlet line from the water heater, look at the nipple it see if it clogged if so remove clean or replace it, Good luck.

John

John may be onto something. I at first said that there were no heat sink nipples. I just went back and looked again. Now I can't be sure because of the gas pipe that is in front.
Show us another picture without the gas pipe blocking where the pipe come out of the water heater.

Yes absolutely, I just saw that now that you mentioned it, that was careless of me. Here's another photo:

http://i.imgur.com/HAfmYow.jpg

Cold water in on the right, hot water out on the left.

Edit: Here's another shot that might be relevant; the same pipes but further up.

http://i.imgur.com/I1fnt3m.jpg

Sorry no heat sink nipples.

I just can't believe that debris in your heater could have blocked a 3/4" pipe. Nor can I accept that debris went to all of your faucets and clogged up every one.

Try visually following the hot water piping. There has to be something between the water heater and where the hot piping branches off to each bath and the kitchen that is blocked. Plumbers don't (shouldn't) put valves inside walls so you should be able to see any valve along the way.

In order to block all the faucets what ever it is has to be between the heater and where pipes branch off.

Ok, more images - I was able to twist off the hot water out pipe, here's what I've got:

http://i.imgur.com/d5mqBHx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iDngEmK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aU2AWOh.jpg

There seems to be a kind of bearing or marble in there, so I can't stick a coat hanger down to check for plugs like I hoped, heh. Also seems to be no plug on the upper end of that pipe either.

Edit - that said, this thing whatever it is looks pretty clean, not like a great amount of debris is clogging it up. I also doubt that it's a clog, there were small grains floating in the water while I was cleaning but there were no large pieces that could have done that.

Oh and yeah, I know I'll need to re-teflon tape that, heheh. I have some.

Edit2: I was able to move the marble a bit, so it doesn't seem to be seized.

I'm wrong those are heat sink nipples. You will need to replace. I think I would just replace with a pipe nipple and not worry with the heat sinks anymore.

I don't see how you unscrewed the pipes with out messing up the PEX connection. Be careful when turning water back on, you may have a leak.

I think I would cut the copper pipes at some convenient place. Screw the copper back own to the water heater, then reconnect the copper with Shark bite couplings. Hope that you haven't screw up the PEX connection. Requires a special tool to redo.

Well, it doesn't seem to be feasible to remove the heat nipple to see what's going on underneath, so I guess there's not much left to do here since I've confirmed there's no visible plug above it... the heat sink nipple is really in there, and there isn't enough edge to pry it out.

Edit - hm, unless I try and fill up the tank again very gradually to see if that marble will allow water through? I'll have to be precise with turning the water off as soon as I see if it does...

Edit 2 - just saw your full reply. Considering my options, hah. As far as the pipe unscrewing, it did require twisting of the upper pipes which jumped once or twice but everything still seems intact. I will be sure to watch that though. In for a penny, in for a pound I guess.

Get a screw driver and see if you can break out the plastic part and remove the ball. Especially on the hot side.

It late and the plumbing store is closed. I would close the cold water input valve. Turn on the water and see if I had a leak in the PEX connection. If I didn't, I would wait until I could get the Shark bite couplings. If you don't have a leak already you don't want to create one. If you get a leak in the cold water line you won't have any water until you can repair.

I'm not losing anything by removing the ball?

Only the heat trap function. Which is what has caused you all this work.

It is of course up to you, but I would do away with the heat trap nipples. They have already caused you more work than they are worth.

If you decide to do away with them and can get the ball out then you will have just regular pipe nipples. You won't have to worry about a leak where they screw into the water heater like you would if you replaced them with a regular nipple.

If you decide to keep the heat traps you should remove and replace them at this time.

Just for your information a nipple is the plumbers term for a short piece of pipe. So when I say replace them with a regular nipple, I mean a short piece of pipe.

So a heat trap nipple is just a short piece of pipe with the ball and its plastic cage in it.

Try this...

Stick a screwdriver into the heat trap nipple and push the ball down. Now, while the ball is down, turn the cold water supply on SLOWLY... jiggle the screwdriver up and down and let's see if you can flush the crud that's clogging this nipple out of the nipple. Put a towel on top of the heater to catch the mess. Eventually, you should be able to clear this and then put all back together if the nipple isn't too damaged.

Otherwise, if the nipple is too damaged or you just want to get rid of it, you put a wrench on the old heat trap nipple and part of the THREADS of the nipple you should have plenty of space to get a wrench on the nipple and get a good bite on the nipple to remove it. Using a larger wrench or a wrench with a long piece of pipe over the end would also help create more leverage to remove. A friend may be necessary her to give a good hold on the heater while you try to unscrew the nipple.

After that, as Harold said, do away with the heat trap nipple and install a new DIELECTRIC NIPPLE (see image... no ball inside these). These nipples are available at all home improvement stores and will prevent an electolytic effect that can take place between dissimilar metals (steel tank and metal nipples or nipples and copper fitting) and cause minerals to deposit between the metals that create the same clogging issue we are seeing now. Regular brass nipples should not be used.

After you install the nipples (using teflon tape AND pipe dope on the threads), you should insulate the first 10 feet of hot water pipe coming out of the heater. This is where the greatest heat loss is from the heater.


Good luck!

Mark

Ahh... good morning everyone :) Another day without a shower for me, haha...

So you guys think there must be a nipple that extends underneath the surface of the shell of the water heater, kind of like this?:

http://i.imgur.com/CUwzxLO.jpg

What is the function of a heat trap nipple?

I believe I will first try what Mark suggests, slow cold water supply on the existing nipple and see if anything comes out / if I can flush it out.

If that proves fruitless then I will try to break out that plastic bit and the marble inside, and if that also doesn't seem to be enough then I will replace it with a Dielectric Nipple as Mark has shown.

I'll keep you informed. Thanks!

That little piece of pipe sticking up is a nipple.
What you have now is a heat trap nipple. It is suppose to save you some money by separating the water in the tank from the water in the pipe. The little ball does that. That is suppose to reduce the heat that is lost in the pipe.

Mark wants you to replace that with a different type. When two different metals are in contact with each other corrosion can occur. Mark wants you to replace your existing nipple with that type. Called a dielectric nipple and to insulate the pipe to reduce the heat loss. Getting that nipple out and the new one in might give you some problems.

If you just break out the plastic and remove the ball you will no longer have heat trap nipples. Just regular nipples.


BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING, GET THOSE SHARK BITE COUPLINGS. DON'T TRY PUTTING THE COPPER PIPE BACK ON THE WATER HEATER WITH OUT THEM.

Well, I have determined that water comes out of that nipple just fine...

http://i.imgur.com/MI1KZwz.jpg

It flowed out very freely, no indication of a plug whatsoever. Which is good and bad, because now it seems to me that if I AM dealing with a plug, the only place it can be is somewhere up here... (as indicated by the red line) being that it is affecting every tap in the house and that this is the first intersection in the pipe:

http://i.imgur.com/BoVJjB8.jpg

I shoved an unbent coathanger as far up this pipe as I could, and hit nothing at all.

Ok, a question re: Shark Bite Couplings. In order to use a Shark Bite Coupling in this instance, to put the hot water line back onto the nipple coming out of the tank, would I not need to cut off the nut-end of this pipe?

http://i.imgur.com/u4IgaNe.jpg

This is my only reference for how Shark Bite Couplings work: How to use Sharkbite Plumbing - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RiqhtvgrH8) and it seems like that's what would be necessary?

No. The fact that you now have water coming out the hot side does not mean that you have a blockage further up the line. It only means that when you unscrewed the copper from the water heater you made the little ball fall back down. Water will now flow out the hot water pipe. However, the little ball will probably get stuck again at some later time.

If you don't have a leak in the cold water line where the PEX piping connects to the copper (or some other place further up the PEX) you should turn to the east and thank the plumbing gods.

What I want you to do do is get the Shark bite couplings and a tubing cutter. Cut the copper pipe at some convenient place, say about half way up. Screw the lower half of the copper back onto the water heater. Then put the Shark bite coupling on the other end. They are what is call a push on type fitting. You just push them on to the pipe and they lock in place with a water tight seal. You the put the other piece of copper pipe in the other end of the coupling. The Shark bite type fittings save you having to learn how to solder pipe.

Twisting that copper pipe inside the PEX pipe fitting is going to create a big problem for you.

Obviously you have reconnected the cold water input to the water heater. I am amazed that you didn't create a leak. I would not take a chance on doing the same thing on the hot water side. If you create a leak at a PEX fitting you will have to rent a special tool to fix it.

So check the cold water line for leaks. Get two Shark bite couplings for 3/4" pipe. Get a removal tool just in case you need to remove a pipe form the Shark bite. Only cost about a $1.
Get a tubing cutter to cut the copper. Ever used a tubing cutter?

Actually I never removed the cold water input to the water heater, I only removed the hot water out after I had turned off the cold water in. Sorry, I realize some of my photos may be confusing because I took them from the other side of the water heater... I have only ever disconnected the hot water out line.

http://i.imgur.com/67eAIxE.jpg

As such there's no reason why I would have created a leak on the cold water in line. So I'm not worried about that. I was a bit rough on the hot water out line though so that's possible. Putting it back together with a Shark Bite sounds like a good idea though.

So either way it sounds like you're recommending I remove the current nipple on the hot water out side. That's the nipple I have exposed.

I haven't personally used a tubing cutter but my brother who is much handier than I am has one, and he's going to come over with it. The two of us will replace that nipple and then use a Shark Bite to put the copper pipe back on.

OK, the fact that you did not try to take out the cold water line makes me feel a lot better.

Cut the hot water out pipe about 12 to 16" up from the water heater. Then use the Shark bite to reconnect it. No skill need to put on a Shark bite. You just push the pipe into it.
One nice thing about the Shark bite is that the pipe will turn inside the Shark bite with out damage so should you ever need to remove the copper from the water heater you can do so with ease.

So, cut the hot water pipe, put it back together with the Shark bite coupling, break out the plastic and remove the ball, coat the threads of the nipple with a generous coating of pipe dope. Screw the pipe back onto the nipple. Turn on the water and the water heater then take a nice, long, hot shower.

Well, I worked all day, my brother came over and we worked all night, and no luck. We broke out the plastic inside that nipple and removed the marble, no luck. We installed another Shark Bite on the cold water in so that we could check things on that end, and we checked the cold water in valve as well, the innards were in a little rough shape but looked fine and couldn't have prevented pressure from pushing water in and then up the hot water out.

http://i.imgur.com/u4R9Dgk.jpg

My brother even opened up the hot water out pipe and *blew* up it, and air came out of the taps. But water still would not come out.

I think we may actually be dealing with a clog, though. At one point, we removed the aerators on the taps and eventually this made its way out:

http://i.imgur.com/f9CKn9X.jpg

Some little white bits of what feels like plastic. We didn't think it was calcium; it feels just like a shred of plastic. There was one piece an inch and a half long, and some smaller little bits too. It also floats in water. We have no idea what it's from. I have seen it once before though, much smaller, at the kitchen tap about a year ago. I removed it from the aerator there and that was that.

Our last idea was to try and backflush the pipes then, and hopefully force wash the debris back into the hot water heater and out the drain. We opened the hot water taps all the way, then opened the cold water taps and plugged the taps with our thumbs so that the water would be forced back down the hot water pipes. We did this with as much pressure as we could on multiple taps at once for about ten minutes, and the water did go back into the water heater and out the drain. I then did another full pressure flush to make sure I got everything out of the water heater.

Reconnected everything and tried the hot water taps again, still no luck. Water just will not come out.

So IF there is a plug, it will allow air through easily, and water can be pushed back through it, but it won't allow water out the proper direction. And I have no idea why the simple act of draining the water heater in the first place would have caused such a plug.

So unless someone recognizes what those shreds of plastic are, I'm completely flabbergasted and out of ideas.

The white plastic stuff is what remains of your dip tube.

What is a dip tube?

Where the cold water input pipe connects to the water heater, beneath the nipple, is a plastic tube that makes the incoming cold water go to the bottom of the tank.
These can deteriorate into what you found in your aerator.

Apparently yours has deteriorated so badly that it has blocked all of your faucets.

You are going to have to remove the hot stems of all of your faucets and flush them to clear.

I'm not buying it...

A deteriorated dip tube will not block every hot water port at every hot water faucet in the house.

In my opinion, you need to call a plumber at this point. Not to insult you, but you are missing something very simple here and as a result we have you jumping all over the place because we can only go on the information you give us!

Like I said, call a plumber... will solve this in minutes... I promise!

Good luck!

Mark

Yup, I will be doing so today. I'd love for it to be something simple, I just don't hold high hopes for that. I'll be sure to update this thread again when we find the answer. Thanks so much again for all of your efforts, especially you hkstroud!

I'm not buying it...

I don't blame you for not buying it Mark, but neither can I believe that a deteriorated dip tube can block a 3/4 line. If you look at the photos you should see that the 3/4" copper changes to PEX at the ceiling and branches of to two 1/2" Pex. Anything else would have to be a blockage between heater and ceiling. She has hot water coming out of the heater.

PS,
Just in case I wrong, I don't have any snowballs.

..

Ok, called in a plumber this morning, and the problem has now been solved, and we have hot water again. The problem was a plug, but not as we expected...

http://i.imgur.com/PFm4VI0.jpg

This image is what remains of the original cold water dip tube, plus another little surprise.

The original dip tube is broken off, obviously trapped inside the tank. That explains why I had such a small amount of hot water - cold was running straight up the hot water line, they being so close together with no dip tube to bring cold water to the bottom of the tank. So that's the first problem solved. The plug, though, was caused by this little white plastic marble that we found by doing another, longer test at the hot water out nipple. It turns out the first heat trap marble that I saw was fine, but this second marble that somehow got into the tank was getting sucked into the hot water out nipple from below. This explains why when I did my first test there, I thought water was flowing through it: I didn't allow water out of the hot water out nipple long enough for this marble to be sucked back into the nipple. Which of course I never could have known.

We suspect that there must have been some kind of pressure trap in the original dip tube, and when the dip tube broke off it let loose this marble into the tank. It floated at the top of my tank from then on, and couldn't have been sucked into the hot water out nipple until I had drained the tank while cleaning it. Then when I refilled the tank, it became stuck there any time there was enough prolonged water pressure to suck it up.

So, I now have hot water again and took the longest hot shower I've ever taken in this house.

Also of note, my plumber informed me that my piping is Poly B, which is big time bad news. He informed me all about it and left me an information package on it. Luckily we don't plan to keep the house for forever.

Thanks everyone for your efforts again, I really appreciate all of the help you all provided me with. This was definitely the best plumbing help site I found on the internet.

And we thank you for the update. Glad you're back in business, Tom

Oh well, guess I just wasn't cut out to be a plumber.

We got snow today Mark, but not enough send you a snowball. How about a pizza instead.

That's cause you were cut out to be MUCH more than a plumber, Harold! This is just a fun hobby for you nowadays! Nice job on this one... really stuck by Loren!

Turns out more snow is headed my way overnight! UGH! I've had about enough his year!

Plenty of snow here, AGAIN!! So you guys get down here and take as much as you want (hopefully all of it). I just figured I would post one last time (or first time on this particular series of posts') to make this possibly the longest running water heater issue to date. Good job guys, and glad you got it taken care of, loren.

Yeah heck, the dedication you guys showed to the problem was admirable! Anyone could have shrugged a long time ago and said "welp, can't help you." You should be commended for that alone :) Besides, this seems to be a one-in-a-million issue, and to have to try to solve it over the internet with nothing to inform you but an under-educated user, you can't really be blamed. Hehe. Thanks again everyone.