I'm sure that most of the people on this site have heard about the school shooting in Connecticut. I know it's being talked about on fb, and posts are being posted to support the families that have been hit by this tragedy, this travesty.

I don't wish to start a discussion about how the world is going to hell in a hand basket, nor do I wish to discuss gun laws, or anything of that nature.

I would like this to be a place for all of us to share how we're feeling, to offer our condolences to those that have lost a loved one today, and to band together, lean on each other, hug each other, and find comfort in each other.

I'm including a link. This link is a candle lighting site. I know it's not a real candle, but the symbol of lighting a candle is significant, it's something I truly believe in, and this site is great. The link I'm posting is for the families in Connecticut. So, if you wish to light a candle for them, click on the link and follow the steps. It's free.

Group *conn* Candles - Light A Candle (http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=conn)

No one?

I can tell you my reaction to this.

I'm in shock. I keep thinking "what if it were my kids?"

It's so senseless, but then, people that do this sort of thing don't have any sense, they're insane (IMO).

I can't stop thinking about the parents that lost children today. You should never have to bury a child. Ever!

My daughter is the one that asked if we could light a candle, like we did when Lennox (a dog that was euthanized for no reason) died.

My kids give me hope. My daughter, she heard about this tragedy, and wept. A part of me wonders if it was right that I shared this news with her. She's only 10. But, such is life, and sadly, as long as there are insane people out there, this sort of thing will continue to happen. It's not the last time. It's not the first time. It's just another school shooting. I think that's the worst part of all of this. It's another of a long list of school shootings in the US. I don't think anyone feels it's the last. It's just the latest one. :(

Obviously something has to change. It doesn't matter where you live, we need to come up with a better way to protect our children from those people that are insane enough to kill without rhyme or reason.

I keep thinking of how close it is to Christmas and how many plans are now turned to dust, gifts won't be bought and opened, carols won't be sung, Christmas plays won't be performed. It's horrible to lose a child and especially right before Christmas.

Many schools in the Chicago area are locked during the school day, so that a doorbell has to be rung and someone inside the school has to check out and approve the visitor. My library put in surveillance cameras about five years ago, and my son's library is in the process of doing that now. Apparently. According to current newscasts, the guns belonged to the shooter's mother and were totally legal. The shooter had no previous legal or police involvement.

The rhetorical question is, What can we do to prevent this from happening again?

This is a tragedy, but it is a tragedy of liberty gone mad, you may not want to discuss gun laws but you cannot separate lax gun laws from this tragedy. This is a slaughter of innocents and no "constitutional rights" transcend the right to life. There is no reason other than nonsense that this person should have possessed the weapons he did, and the fact that they are licenced only makes the slaughter more obscene. Let us hope the President has the balls, what we used to call intestinal fortitude to enforce sanity. Do you know that one of the weapons is an item the Swiss gun maker boasted of their success in the american market. It took a disaster like this in my own nation to stop the slaughter, and it is sad but this may be what it takes in your nation to stop the slaughter. And no one have the gaul to say guns don't kill people, because they certainly slaughtered these innocents

You want to know how I am feeling, even at a distance, emotional, angry and discussed. This is an act of terror just as surely as 9/11 was an act of terror and the terrorist is the gun

According to current reports, he took these weapons from his mother's (or someone's) house. They were not his. And he supposedly had no previous mental health problems.

According to current reports, he took these weapons from his mother's (or someone's) house. They were not his. And he supposedly had no previous mental health problems.

Which proves all the more that weapons like this should not be in the general community, no matter what the precautions they are not secure. We don't know what a person is thinking, I know from personal experience of the emotions and actions of one of my children you can never know when anyone will do the unexpected, These situations produce strong emotions in me even though it was twenty five years ago and I have no doubt that is echoed in many people.

This is a tragedy, but it is a tragedy of liberty gone mad, you may not want to discuss gun laws but you cannot seperate lax gun laws from this tragedy. This is a slaughter of innocents and no "constitutional rights" transcend the right to life. There is no reason other than nonsence that this person should have possessed the weapons he did, and the fact that they are licenced only makes the slaughter more obscene. Let us hope the President has the balls, what we used to call intestinal fortitude to enforce sanity. Do you know that one of the weapons is an item the Swiss gun maker boasted of their success in the american market. It took a disaster like this in my own nation to stop the slaughter, and it is sad but this may be what it takes in your nation to stop the slaughter. and noone have the gaul to say guns don't kill people, because they certainly slaughtered these innocents

You want to know how I am feeling, even at a distance, emotional, angry and discussed. this is an act of terror just as surely as 9/11 was an act of terror and the terrorist is the gun

I have to say, I agree with you. I stated that I don't want to discuss gun laws, only because I've had that fight before. I'm in Canada. Getting a permit to buy a gun here, well, you have a better chance winning millions in the lottery. Guns aren't an issue here. Google how many school shootings, or any shootings, we've had in Alberta. You won't find a lot. Google the US, where anyone can buy a gun, and it's page after page. But I digress.

Many people, people I consider friends, don't agree with me when it comes to gun laws. They have the right to bear arms, and sadly, so does every lunatic that's living near them. Their motto "guns don't kill, people kill". My motto "people with guns kill people".

I asked that we not discuss this issue simply because I don't want to turn this into a discussion or fight about guns and who should have them. This is about the families that lost a child, or a loved one (20 children dead, 6 adults) today. It's not about laws, it's about loss. It's about mourning that loss and offering support.

I have two kids. I can't imagine losing either of them. I'd be lost. I'd die myself. Just writing that brought tears to my eyes. I can't imagine being a parent, and losing a child, especially to something this senseless. :(

What part of free will should God take away from us to prevent the acts of the evil ?
The murderer lived in Connecticut and New Jersey ;two of the states with some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation.But the strictest law in both states is the one about committing murder. Guess that law didn't prevent it either. When you get tired of blaming guns ,you can jump on a number of other bandwagons like violent video games and movies ;or the prescription drugs he may have been on.

Not to mention if, hypothetically speaking, guns were banned, sick people would find another way to cause harm.

I have two kids. I can't imagine losing either of them. I'd be lost. I'd die myself. Just writing that brought tears to my eyes. I can't imagine being a parent, and losing a child, especially to something this senseless. :(

I understand where you are coming from, as I said earlier this has stirred strong emotions in me, but the issue really is about right to life, everyone has that right and it should be protected more strongly than any other right. I too live in a society where we don't need to reach for a gun to solve our problems, where we cannot own assault weapons, we are a peaceful society. The quality of our liberty is not strained. It is true criminals have guns and shoot people, but the ordinary citizen rarely does and oddly enough what we find is the criminals shoot at each other and generally leave the rest of us alone.

What society must do is ensure that such events cannot take place again, that requires strong action and strong will, in fact it requires courage, the innocents must be protected and not only from guns but from predators too. There should be a memorial to these kids in a form that ensures it cannot happen again

Yikes Tomber.

Okay, so apparently we don't want to mourn the loss in Connecticut. Should I remind you about that loss? 20 children, this school was Kindergarten to grade 4. These 20 children never even had a real chance to live. My daughter is 10, older than all of the 20 children killed today!

Six adults killed. Why? Some idiot had guns and killed then. He wasn't sane. How could he be?

If you want to make this a discussion about guns, go ahead, but let's try to remember that this act, what happened today, no matter what we discuss about guns, it can't be changed. It can't be taken back. Guns were involved, that's a fact. How the insane arse got the guns, isn't important. He got them, and he used them, and he killed a lot of people, most of them innocent children.

Please, I'm all for a discussion about guns, and how guns do kill people, because they're given to people that want to kill people. But not here. Please.

This is about the children and adults that died today. Only that. It's not about how I or anyone else feels about the gun laws in the US. Because truthfully, I could go on and on about how I feel about that issue, and we could start a huge fight about it.

I'm too busy crying for the loss of life to care about who's right or wrong about guns. I look at my children and think... what if it were me? What if I lost my kids? I can't even get around that thought. There's no way I could deal with it, and I've dealt with more loss than most. But my kids? No. That would kill me. That's what 20 families are facing today.

Please respect what this thread is about. Life, and it's loss. Light a candle, go to the link I posted. We can discuss evil guns in another thread. I'll even start it.

What society must do is ensure that such events cannot take place again
Society cannot ensure that.

What part of free will should God take away from us to prevent the acts of the evil ?
The murderer lived in Connecticut and New Jersey ;two of the states with some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation.But the strictest law in both states is the one about committing murder. Guess that law didn't prevent it either. When you get tired of blaming guns ,you can jump on a number of other bandwagons like violent video games and movies ;or the prescription drugs he may have been on.

This isn't a matter of action by God Tom and you know it. You cannot tell me a person like this wasn't noticed as being a potential problem. I have just seen a news article that states this was a troubled person for a long time. You want to strike up your liberty bandwagon and play guns forever but you are avoiding the issue, there is a higher right, and it is the right to life. How many lives have been traumatised by this event, yes, twenty-eight are dead but the impact must be in the hundreds and why, so some nut could own assault weapons, because it is his right to kill people don't you know.

You want to tell us strict gun laws didn't stop this person and you were right, they weren't strict enough. I would have no doubt this person planned his actions for a long time, who knows what the trigger was, but as soon as he went over the edge he reached for a gun and look what he had to choose from, automatic weapons. Killing made easy

Now we're talking guns and God? What have I started here?

Okay, here is my statement.

My heart goes out to the families that lost loved ones in Connecticut today, my heart also goes out the families that lost loved one in the shooting in Colorado. Columbine, my heart goes out to you. All the Americans that lost loved ones due to shootings (and there are many), my heart goes out to you. I think that makes my point about guns, and how I feel about them.

But mostly, my prayers are with the families that lost children today, and the families of the adults that also died today. My heart is hurting for your loss. I am in tears, because I can't even imagine what you're going through.

Please, click the link and light a candle for the families that lost a child or a loved one today.

This thread is about them, and about leaning on each other through this tragedy. It's not about gun laws, or God, or anything else. It's about the loss of human life, and the families that have to face that tonight, and for the rest of their lives.

I have to add this.

Today 26 people were killed in Connecticut. 20 children, 6 adults. Why? A mad man with a gun decided to kill them.

Also today, 22 were injured in China. A madman with a knife went to a school and decided to kill children. No one was killed, only 22 injured.

That's all I'll say about guns and how I feel about the gun laws in the US. The math is pretty easy to do. The 22 injured in China, will live. The 26 killed in Connecticut, well, you can't survive death.

But guns don't kill people? Actually, I think we should change that to "Knives don't kill people. Knives injure people. Guns, in the wrong hands, kill a lot of people".

Now, go light that candle, please.

And yes, I realize that I broke my own rule, and commented on gun control and my thoughts. But hey, you can only push me so far before I snap. Thankfully you don't have to worry, because I can't access a gun. ;)

Promise kept. If you want to talk about guns, I started a thread.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/other-member-discussions/gun-control-thoughts-just-shoot-me-now-thread-wont-end-well-722668.html

Yikes Tomber.

Okay, so apparently we don't want to mourn the loss in Connecticut. Should I remind you about that loss? 20 children, this school was Kindergarten to grade 4. These 20 children never even had a real chance to live. My daughter is 10, older than all of the 20 children killed today!

Six adults killed. Why? Some idiot had guns and killed then. He wasn't sane. How could he be?

If you want to make this a discussion about guns, go ahead, but let's try to remember that this act, what happened today, no matter what we discuss about guns, it can't be changed. It can't be taken back. Guns were involved, that's a fact. How the insane arse got the guns, isn't important. He got them, and he used them, and he killed a lot of people, most of them innocent children.

Please, I'm all for a discussion about guns, and how guns do kill people, because they're given to people that want to kill people. But not here. Please.

This is about the children and adults that died today. Only that. It's not about how I or anyone else feels about the gun laws in the US. Because truthfully, I could go on and on about how I feel about that issue, and we could start a huge fight about it.

I'm too busy crying for the loss of life to care about who's right or wrong about guns. I look at my children and think....what if it were me? What if I lost my kids? I can't even get around that thought. There's no way I could deal with it, and I've dealt with more loss than most. But my kids? No. That would kill me. That's what 20 families are facing today.

Please respect what this thread is about. Life, and it's loss. Light a candle, go to the link I posted. We can discuss evil guns in another thread. I'll even start it.

So it's OK that Clete brought up guns ;but my rebuttal crosses the line. Ok I won't comment further on this posting .

As most of you know, I am a Kindergarten teacher. Of course, I had no clue until the work day was over about this tragedy. Innocent little babies and they were supposed to be safe at school. It doesn't matter how much security the school had. His mom taught there. Our visitors must be fingerprinted with the FBI and go through vigorous training. But, that doesn't ever guard against someone who "snaps." They can point a rifle on to a playground. So, hug your kids a little tighter tonight and feel relief they are still with you. I can't imagine my little Kinders in danger like that, but you better be sure that their teacher shielded those kids as if they were her own. Rest in peace Kinder angels, and my heart is with their families.

where anyone can buy a gun, Wrong.


Their motto "guns don't kill, people kill". My motto "people with guns kill people".

So, if guns were illegal no one would have one? Please, tell me more about how nobody can buy drugs.


Some idiot had guns and killed then Actually, he didn't have guns. He StOLE them.


how guns do kill people, because they're given to people that want to kill people Wrong again.

I love you Alty, but living in Canada you clearly don't understand how gun control actually works in the U.S.

If one teacher/janitor/principal (take your pick) who is well trained with firearms and carries a CCP (Concealed Carry Permit), this could have been stopped with minimal loss of life. I know many teachers who qualify to carry but can't. I am qualified to carry but can't to my job because guns aren't allowed in a hospital. Hospital violence is on the increase as well and our security guards aren't even allowed to touch a disturbed patient. That's my job.

And no, I don't think you should have shown this to Syd. You took a small part of her innocence away.

so it's ok that Clete brought up guns ;but my rebuttal crosses the line. Ok I won't comment further on this posting .

I have to agree with you here. Another person mentioned guns on this thread and Tomder was ostracized for it.

This is a touchy thread because how can you NOT bring up guns?

I do see that Alty had posted another thread...

I agree with Tom and Enigma. I have posted my thoughts on the other thread.

I am saddened by this tragedy as I was Christmas shopping when I found out what had happened.

RIP all the people that lost their lives today in Connecticut. That's what this thread is about.

If that's not your intention, fine, I provided a link to discuss guns, and who should have them. If that's what you wish to discuss, then by all means, discuss it, but please have some respect and do so in the thread I posted about that issue. Here's the link;

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/other-member-discussions/gun-control-thoughts-just-shoot-me-now-thread-wont-end-well-722668.html

This thread is about coming together as a community, AMHD, to mourn those that died today, and to offer support for those that lost a loved one. To support each other. It's about love, not conflict.

To light a candle in memory of those that lost their lives today, and in support for the families that lost a child, or adult loved one today, please go to this link.

Group *conn* Candles - Light A Candle (http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=conn)

My daughters school called us to let us know that the school was staying after so that those who could can get together on the court yard to pray for those children. We also got an automated message letting us know that our kids were safe, and explained the safety procedures, and that the kids would be practicing next week.

I have already added these families to our prayer chain at church, and I am sure we will be praying for them in church on Sunday.

At church? Jennie, I thought you were Muslum?

... almost 2 years ago...

A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping, Rachel is weeping for her children; she refuses to be comforted for her children, because they are no more.Jeremiah 21:15
Pray for the children;pray for the children who lost classmates, friends, family ;
Pray for the parents and grandparents ;pray for the other teachers and staff at the school, pray for the first responders, the police and medical personnel, who march towards danger as others flee. Pray for the town of Newtown, Connecticut.
Pray for our families ,commuities and nation .as we, like Rachel,
Cry for the children who were senslessly murdered ,and are now in God's loving hands.


To send a sympathy card ,here is the address :
Sandy Hook Elementary School, 12 enson Drive, Sandy Hook, CT 06482

I was getting very overwhelmed after hearing of this tragedy and the one in China. My heart was breaking for those poor little babies (yes to me they were babies). The innocence stolen from the survivors as I am sure they will have life long issues from witnessing this. Christmas will never be the same for these children. My thoughts are everywhere and my heart is breaking. I have lit a candle and did some mindfulness exercises while looking at the candle on the site that Alty linked.
I will leave you with this quote that has helped lessen my emotional mind during this time.
"When I was a boy and I would see scary things in the news, my mother would say to me, 'Look for the helpers. You will always find people who are helping.' To this day, especially in times of 'disaster,' I remember my mother's words, and I am always comforted by realizing that there are still so many helpers - so many caring people in this world." -- Mister Rogers

There are good people in this world. We need to thank them and cherish them. Then work on fixing this world. It starts with one person I am one person. I am sharing this in the hopes of inspiring others to help out and carry the torch to change the world.
26 Moments That Restored Our Faith In Humanity This Year (http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/moments-that-restored-our-faith-in-humanity-this-y)

There are good people in this world. We need to thank them and cherish them. Then work on fixing this world. It starts with one person I am one person. I am sharing this in the hopes of inspiring others to help out and carry the torch to change the world.
26 Moments That Restored Our Faith In Humanity This Year (http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/moments-that-restored-our-faith-in-humanity-this-y)

This was very touching! Thank you for sharing.

That was nice to look at. Thanks for posting it.

I can't stop watching the news about all of this. I keep thinking about these families, Christmas a little over a week away, and this is what they have to face, this will be their lives from here on out.

My husband hates reading or hearing about things like this. He can't handle it. He always changes the channel, or asks me not to talk about it. Even with the pet rescue work I do, the less he knows, the happier he is. He doesn't want to know about any of it, then he can pretend that it doesn't exist.

But this time he's listening. We were just watching a news program about this shooting, and he turned to me, tears in his eyes, and said "I can't imagine. All of those kids were younger than Sydney, and she's only 10. Those families, their loss, how can they even hope to deal with it? I know I wouldn't be able to. I can lose my dad, and my mom and survive, we both did, I can even lose you and survive, it would be hard, but I could do it. But to lose a child? That would kill me".

I feel the same way.

Tomber, thank you for posting the address where we can send our condolences.

I want to apologize to everyone for yesterday. I was upset. I started this thread as a memorial for those that passed, and it turned into something far different, something I had hoped to avoid, and I didn't handle it well.

I'll blame it on emotion, and Christmas stress. I don't even have my tree up yet, and I work full time next week. I haven't started my Christmas shopping! I'm a bit tense. :(

But that's really no excuse for any of what I said yesterday, and I apologize. I do thank you all for keeping with the tone of this thread. :)

The details continue to change and vary, depending on which channel you watch.

What bothers me is Monday and after. Will these children go to school somewhere? Or will it be an early Christmas vacation? If I had my say, I'd tear down that school building. How horrible it would be to go back to those rooms and remember every day what had happened there. Or will they be able to turn it into a memorial and deal with it?

The details continue to change and vary, depending on which channel you watch.

What bothers me is Monday and after. Will these children go to school somewhere? Or will it be an early Christmas vacation? If I had my say, I'd tear down that school building. How horrible it would be to go back to those rooms and remember every day what had happened there. Or will they be able to turn it into a memorial and deal with it?

I agree with you knock it down so no one has to go through the trauma of remembering. Turn the site into a memorial but not the buildings

I agree as well. I know that as a parent, I can't imagine sending my children back to a school where something like this happened. I also can't imagine that any children would even be showing up for school on Monday, if they were to open it then. I know I wouldn't be sending my kids.

As far as I know it's still a crime scene, so I doubt they'll be opening their doors on Monday. The kids will likely get an early Christmas break, or be sent to a different school for the rest of the week. That's just a guess, not something I've heard on the news.

Tear it down and let nature cover it so that it is forever gone.

I understand where you are coming from, as I said earlier this has stirred strong emotions in me, but the issue really is about right to life, everyone has that right and it should be protected more strongly than any other right. I too live in a society where we don't need to reach for a gun to solve our problems, where we cannot own assault weapons, we are a peaceful society. The quality of our liberty is not strained. It is true criminals have guns and shoot people, but the ordinary citizen rarely does and oddly enough what we find is the criminals shoot at each other and generally leave the rest of us alone.

What society must do is ensure that such events cannot take place again, that requires strong action and strong will, in fact it requires courage, the innocents must be protected and not only from guns but from predators too. There should be a memorial to these kids in a form that ensures it cannot happen again

I'm appalled that you couldn't give us two posts to mourn the loss and honor the victims before lecturing us on gun control, that's my first thought.

My second thought is you really live in a unique place if the criminals don't prey on the innocents, I find that very difficult to believe. In fact, I hear you have a bit of problem with human trafficking, most likely for the sex industry. Mind your own house.

I'm appalled that you couldn't give us two posts to mourn the loss and honor the victims before lecturing us on gun control, that's my first thought.

My second thought is you really live in a unique place if the criminals don't prey on the innocents, I find that very difficult to believe. In fact, I hear you have a bit of problem with human trafficking, most likely for the sex industry. Mind your own house.

Ok speech I'm not trying to make this about gun control but you cannot ignore the fact that the root of this tragedy lies in an attitude towards guns which allows this violence to occur. This is about protecting the innocents, your own President has said as much and during the mourning. I think he is gathering the courage it will take to provide a true memorial to those who died. You may not like the outcome

I live in a place which has been made a better place by the removal of these weapons from society because the community was courageous. BY the way in this society a weapon may not be discharged within one mile of a dwelling. I'm sure the residents of Newtown would like that privilige .You think that because these events happened at a distance, the impact cannot be felt. They are felt and felt strongly because of events in my own life, they stir up dreadfull memories and I have no doubt it is so for many, I have said as much before. Don't think I don't feel for the parents of those children.

As far as our problems are concerned with boat people and human trafficking, these people as as much a victim as those who died in Connecticut. Hundreds die on the journey and I note you show little concern. They don't come here to be exploited by the sex industry, but because they see a fair society where among other things they will not suffer the tyranny of the gun. They risk their lives to get to a place which is peaceful and offers opportunity

BY the way in this society a weapon may not be discharged within one mile of a dwelling. I'm sure the residents of Newtown would like that privilige

That's just silly. There's a law that says a weapon cannot be discharged within one mile of a dwelling... very nice. And you're saying had this law been in place in CT that all would have been OK?

Did you also know there is a law that a weapon cannot be discharged in a school?. no, really... it's true. There's also a law that says you can't just shoot innocent people... really, there is.

So talk all you want about your great 1 mile law, it is meaningless.

But again... this thread is not the place for this.

Ok speech I'm not trying to make this about gun control but you cannot ignore the fact that the root of this tragedy lies in an attitude towards guns which allows this violence to occur. This is about protecting the innocents, your own President has said as much and during the mourning. I think he is gathering the courage it will take to provide a true memorial to those who died. You may not like the outcome

Nonsense. You can't really believe that people hellbent on violence aren't going to accomplish their evil act if you take guns away, and if you do it will only drive the trade underground. If some violent dude tries to prey on my wife in a parking lot the government isn't going to be able to protect her, but she damn sure has a chance protect herself. It's not a gun issue Clete, it's a culture issue, it's a mental health issue, it's a heart issue. When someone says they aren't surprised this guy did it, that's your first clue that someone should have intervened.


As far as our problems are concerned with boat people and human trafficking, these people as as much a victim as those who died in Connecticut. Hundreds die on the journey and I note you show little concern. They don't come here to be exploited by the sex industry, but because they see a fair society where among other things they will not suffer the tyranny of the gun. They risk their lives to get to a place which is peaceful and offers opportunity

First of all, mentioning you have a human trafficking problem to deal with IS showing concern. I could certainly dispute the notion that they aren't victims of the sex trade but again, this was to be a thread about the victims, not your self-righteous pontificating.

Can this be all moved to the other thread? Lets keep this one only about the victims and us supporting them from afar. The other thread is the one to debate in PLEASE!

Nonsense. You can't really believe that people hellbent on violence aren't going to accomplish their evil act if you take guns away, and if you do it will only drive the trade underground. If some violent dude tries to prey on my wife in a parking lot the government isn't going to be able to protect her, but she damn sure has a chance protect herself. It's not a gun issue Clete, it's a culture issue, it's a mental health issue, it's a heart issue. When someone says they aren't surprised this guy did it, that's your first clue that someone should have intervened.

Speech I agree it is a cultural issue and I have the opportunity to observe first hand a different culture so thus my comments. You speak of violence and predatory behaviour, really a cultural issue, yes a mental health issue but is the whole society mad??


First of all, mentioning you have a human trafficking problem to deal with IS showing concern. I could certainly dispute the notion that they aren't victims of the sex trade but again, this was to be a thread about the victims, not your self-righteous pontificating.

I happen to believe that those who prey on economic migrants and asylum seekers are just as much a human trafficking problem as those who recruit for the sex industry, they entice people and exploit them and many die as a result, children among them, You may have as many children die on one boat as died last week.There is no one to mourn them. We don't have the human trafficking problem you would suggest although I cannot deny that it might be caught up in the mêlée, but we are victims of it because it exists in surrounding nations, who do nothing about it and where corruption has fueled it, and billions that might otherwise go to aid must be spent in military operations, pursuit, arrest, housing, transportation, rescue, medical care, legal actions, to deal with the aftermath.

At the root of all these problems is corruption, some people want to put a different face on it, but it is corruption nevertheless, there are many evils in this world, and often they are associated with pleasure and what are described as harmless pursuits

Can this be all moved to the other thread? Lets keep this one only about the victims and us supporting them from afar. The other thread is the one to debate in PLEASE!

Thank you Mogrann.

Guys, this thread is about the victims, not about the guns used to kill them.

I started another thread so you all could discuss guns, and how you feel about them. Please, let this thread be a memorial, not a debate. I beg of you.