okay speech what's the alternative, all those on welfare, social security, unemployment suddenly have no money, that will make a wonderful bounce for the economy, or perhaps you prefer the military and the civil servants don't get paid, or the government defaults on its contracts, no I get it, they just won't pay the bond holders their interest. You could, of course, shut down all those Congress boondoggles, or shutdown local government or state government, it's so wasteful having all that duplication. Hows's that for disproportionately affecting the poor

My way ;when the government shuts down ;they make a provision that essential personnel still report for duty. Then one starts to ask oneself.. 'all those people who are not reporting are 'non-essential ' employees ? Why does the government hire non-essential employees ?

'all those people who are not reporting are 'non-essential ' employees ? Why does the government hire non-essential employees ?

Why Tom those are the people who are administering Congressional boondoggles .

Now you wouldn't want those programs to stop would you? Glory be, what would the folks down home say if Homer lost his job?

But seriously, someone has to be there when the essential employees, that's the bone lazy congressmen and senators, and their hangerson go on leave. Tell you what Tom you fire all those non essential employees and the nation will grind to a halt, what would public servants do if they actually had to do some work? I know you have thought this through and have come to the conclusion no price to too high to get your capitalist agenda up

10 % across the board cuts and layoffs and the Federal government wouldn't skip a beat .

Does that include the 800,000 the DoD was planning to send on unpaid leave? I think you will have to do better than 10% to find all those non essential employees The internet suggests the government has about 3,000,000 direct employees, or 8% of population excluding the military but I wonder how many indirect employees it has. Other statistics suggest total government employment at around 12,000,000 plus 15,000,000 contractors, must be massive duplication over there, by comparison our direct government employment is about 0.7% of our population

must be massive duplication over there

You got it.

This whole fiscal cliff crap is a disaster the congress created in the first place, after they couldn't do their jobs and even raising the debt ceiling is a smoke screen since congress is the one to appropriate money in the first place. It's the congress that has spent too much, and now they have to pay for it.

Republicans use to know that. Until Obama showed up and took on the Bush fiasco and TParty BS, and ran into the republican zeal to take his job and run the 3 branches of government, so they could control the 4th. So their rich buddies could really run the whole show, and extract all the money.

The coup failed

A bloodless coup Tal, yes, those usually fail, but never mind, your Republicans will keep their guns so they can hold an insurrection against tyranny, after all that's what they are for, or at least, that's what Tom thinks they are for.

This whole fiscal cliff crap is a disaster the congress created in the first place, after they couldn't do their jobs and even raising the debt ceiling is a smoke screen since congress is the one to appropriate money in the first place. Its the congress that has spent to much, and now they have to pay for it.

Republicans use to know that. Until Obama showed up and took on the Bush fiasco and TParty BS, and ran into the republican zeal to take his job and run the 3 branches of government, so they could control the 4th. so their rich buddies could really run the whole show, and extract all the money.

The coup failed

That's funny.

What's even funnier is shutting down the government and risking the credit of the US on money that's already been spent by the approval of the congress, specifically the house who is charged with appropriating he money.

Whether we had a deficit or not just accounting for a growing population would mean MO' MONEY is needed.

Whats even funnier is shutting down the government and risking the credit of the US on money thats already been spent by the approval of the congress, specifically the house who is charged with appropriating he money.

Whether we had a deficit or not just accounting for a growing population would mean MO' MONEY is needed.


They can earn their own.

They can earn their own.

How do they do that when they can't do it now, will some of those job destroyers crawl out of their holes

how do they do that when they can't do it now, will some of those job destroyers crawl out of their holes

Don't or won't? Don't worry, paying all those people not to work has saved millions of jobs (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-04/hilda-solis-paying-people-not-work-saved-millions-jobs).

By the way, one Democratic Rep has the solution for everything, just print some trillion dollar coins and pay the bills. No, really (http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2013/01/7052758/looking-next-debt-ceiling-fight-nadler-proposes-trillion-dollar-coi).

Glad that goof ball Nadler is concerned about the integrity of the currency.

Don't or won't? Don't worry, paying all those people not to work has saved millions of jobs (http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-04/hilda-solis-paying-people-not-work-saved-millions-jobs).

By the way, one Democratic Rep has the solution for everything, just print some trillion dollar coins and pay the bills. No, really (http://www.capitalnewyork.com/article/politics/2013/01/7052758/looking-next-debt-ceiling-fight-nadler-proposes-trillion-dollar-coi).

This is the sort of thinking that got you into the problem in the first place

this is the sort of thinking that got you into the problem in the first place

Um, duh. Conservatives don't think that way.

this is the sort of thinking that got you into the problem in the first place

No it ain't we wus robbed... legally. Way before the president stopped wearing diapers, but we just found out.

No it ain't we wus robbed............................................ ................legally. Way before the president stopped wearing diapers, but we just found out.

Yeh I know taxation is theft

Theft through taxation came later after they rewrote the regulations and rules that were put in place to prevent a financial meltdown that led to the great recession of '29.

Glass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass%E2%80%93Steagall_Act)

After they repealed the rules in 1999, of course they reverted to the same things that sunk us before. As the banks ran amok the credit rating agency turned a blind eye to what their donors were doing and at the same time we got he Bush tax cuts, two wars and unfunded programs that almost destroyed the health care system and education systems, along with the global finances.

None of this was apparent in 2006, but some knew, and no one after has realized what a deep blow we all have absorbed. The end game was to starve governments and let corporations and banks control the entire global economy, and have cheap labor in America... AGAIN.

To this day they say "the black guy did it". And most of us still don't know what hit us because the right is still trying to get the controls back.

Steal the money shift the blame , and divert the posse. Build a fence and bloat defense and holler "we're broke, we can't afford a safety net", and when the super storms hit, cut the budget some more.

Pee on the populations head, and call it trickle down economics, put your pensions in Wall Street, and when they crash you start all over until you die penniless, after working all your life. Holler we spend too much, but we tax to little and the rest is legal ROBBERY.

Tell me how it ain't.

You know who did it? It was GW "dopey" Bush and cleaning up his mess is in the too hard basket because conventional wisdom doesn't work anymore. You can't stimulate an economy that has no production capacity. This is where Keysian theory fails, and all these Ivy League shavetails should have known it. Doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum you are from, pork just doesn't go as far as it used to and QE does nothing because no one is asking the banks to lend, and even if they are, the bar is so high no one gets a start.

Here's an idea and I know I will hear the howls from across the Pacific, instead of guaranteeing bank deposits, they should be guaranteeing credit worthy bank loans. It costs the government nothing, at least, not immediately, and it just could stimulate those new industries

Or you can guarantee deposits and let investors take the risk without the promise of a bailout .Why would you privatize gains and subsidize losses ? Therein is the flaw in the current model that has just been codified with Dodd-Frank.
Ps... now that idiot Barney Frank wants to take his act to the Senate ? OMG!!

We agree Tom "Why would you privatize gains and subsidize losses?". But Dodd Frank is the mechanism to unravel those losses safely. You cannot let a failure bring down the whole system. Nor can you let failure be a hostage tool for more ROBBERY.

A small weak central government can't fight the too big to fail banks.

A small weak central government can't fight the too big to fail banks
Sure it can... let them fail . You want banks to pay attention to moral hazard... make them pay the price.

What do you do with the victims of bad behavior? Like the foreign banks and goverments who got robbed with us.Like the peole who had money in those failed banks. Fine to say let them fail, but many others will fail as a consequence.

I believe I already addressed that . Insure depositor ,let the rest of the investors (buyers ) beware . If you come across an instance of malfeasance then by all means put those responsible in a frog march.

Selling worthless over valued financial products was legal, so their was no crime to prosecute, per se, just many rules to change and consumers, and investors to protect. Some regulations are good even if they stop the flow of money into your pocket freely.

Well then ;you just identified where your efforts should be concentrated .

Buyer beware, this is why we have consumer protection Tom, to stop the shonks but you being a capitalist want an unfetted right to exploit the consumer

No ,I don't believe fraud should be tolerated .

French film star Gerard Depardieu has defected to Russia to avoid the punitive French tax on the rich . The new proposed tax is 75% in France. Russia has a flat-rate income tax of 13 percent. Got to give Putin credit ;at least he understands tax fairness.

no ,I don't believe fraud should be tolerated .

Really where do you stand on exxon, Goldmen Sachs, It is my understanding you don't want regulation Catch me if you can is no way to run a country

I have told you a number of times what I think of Goldman Sachs . Let me know what specific fraud you are speaking of with Exxon . As far as I know ;if I invest in Exxon stocks ;I'm getting the real deal.

I have told you a number of times what I think of Goldman Sachs . Let me know what specific fraud you are speaking of with Exxon . As far as I know ;if I invest in Exxon stocks ;I'm getting the real deal.

I'm sorry Tom I meant Enron, although the handling of the prosecution of the Exxon Valdez incident could amount to a fraud on the community, so enjoy your extra profit Tom

Exxon is still making big bucks and is still cleaning up the Valdez mess. If they are entitled to big bucks are they not responsible and accountable too? That dumb senator from Texas and many republicans don't think so.

Come on, you want capitalism but when it screws people over you talk about they are so entitled but then the people should have no entitlements and you should cut them to save money? Let cut corporate entitlement before we jump on peoples entitlements.

How is that no fair? Go ahead tell me why some are more entitled than others.

Exxon is still making big bucks and is still cleaning up the Valdez mess. If they are entitled to big bucks are they not responsible and accountable too? That dumb senator from Texas and many republicans don't think so.

Come on, you want capitalism but when it screws people over you talk about they are so entitled but then the people should have no entitlements and you should cut them to save money? Let cut corporate entitlement before we jump on peoples entitlements.

How is that no fair? Go ahead tell me why some are more entitled than others.

I'm all for cutting corporate entitlements, we can start with all the pork in the Sandy relief bill like all that money going to Hollywood to prop up people that fill the screens with violence then preach against guns before being escorted to their limo by an armed guard.

I can go with presenting and passing clean bills with no pork. Especially those race track subsidies.

I'm going to let this one speak for itself...


Texas Starts Budget Debate Flush With Energy Boom Cash (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-07/texas-starts-budget-debate-flush-with-energy-boom-cash.html)

Legislators in Texas, the biggest energy producer among U.S. states, will begin deliberating its next two-year budget with a surplus forecast today to match an $8.8 billion record set in 2007.

The Texas economy has topped budget projections over the past 15 months, as booming energy output fueled job growth and an 11 percent fiscal first-quarter gain in sales-tax receipts, the biggest source of general-fund revenue. Even after paying off $7 billion in health and school bills, Comptroller Susan Combs said today that the state will be flush heading into 2014.

Lawmakers, who convene tomorrow for a five-month session, in 2011 put off about $4.7 billion in future Medicaid costs and $2 billion for public schools under the current budget, and now must pay those bills. With Combs projecting an $8.8 billion surplus by Aug. 31 and a 12 percent jump in general-purpose receipts for the next two years, Democrats sense an opening.

“Given that we’re seeing an increase in revenue, let’s use this opportunity to fix those things that those in control of the budget have broken,” said state Senator Kirk Watson, an Austin Democrat. “Some people clearly want to starve the necessities of our people, things like schools, health care and transportation.”

Republicans hold all statewide elective offices and run the Legislature. Party leaders don’t want Texas to revert to a pattern that prevailed from 1990 to 2010, when spending rose at twice the pace of population and per-capita income growth, said Talmadge Heflin, a fiscal policy analyst for the Texas Public Policy Foundation, a nonprofit group that promotes limited government.

Governor Rick Perry, a Republican who has held the office since December 2000, wants to tighten limits on spending growth, and opposes new levies or tax increases, according to a “budget compact” he released in April. Disciplined spending policies have helped Texas retain top credit grades from Moody’s Investors Service and Fitch Ratings.

“Today’s revenue estimate is more evidence that we made the right decisions two years ago by budgeting carefully to meet the challenges of the national recession,” Perry said in a statement.

Employment Gains

As the taxable value of oil produced in Texas surged to $39.1 billion in 2011 from $18.4 billion in 2009, the state led the nation in employment gains, adding about 700,000 jobs, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The state unemployment rate has tumbled to a four-year low of 6.2 percent. Oil and natural-gas drilling rigs more than doubled by mid-2012 compared with two years earlier, and the industry’s workforce climbed 9.2 percent, Combs said.

Combs, a Republican, estimated that the state will have $101.4 billion available for general-purpose spending over the next two years, or 12 percent more than was forecast for the current biennial budget. The forecast sets a cap on how much money lawmakers can use in the new spending plan.

Sales-tax receipts have risen at “an amazing trajectory” since touching a low in 2010, Combs said at a briefing. The pace will slow to 2.4 percent in 2014 and then rebound to 5.9 percent in 2015, she said. She cautioned that single-family housing permits are increasing modestly, while businesses may cut spending because of gridlock in Congress over the federal debt.

Same as the Alberta oil boom revenue. When you're lucky enough to have the natural resources in your jurisdiction and you can rape the land you can make quite a profit.

Building that pipeline from Canada has the boys giddy at the opportunity for profits and more Taco Bells. But Texas has always been the home of big oil, and that papers over the other problems, gripes, and complaints.

A quiet facts is Perry has been pushing back on companies that have taken breaks and deals and not delivered on employment targets and promises but the flipside is that he also has refused medicaid expansion and his answer to having his own health care plan before 2014 has holes in it, but in Texas the REAL power is the legislature, which for the most part handles its business.

Like anywhere else they aren't perfect and good news is still good news.


while businesses may cut spending because of gridlock in Congress over the federal debt.

TRANSLATION/ Their taxes may go up.

Same as the Alberta oil boom revenue. When you're lucky enough to have the natural resources in your jurisdiction and you can rape the land you can make quite a profit.

Not hardly.We never experienced the same economic crisis as the rest of the country when the economy crashed and it had nothing do with oil at the time. When you restrain spending, pay your bills, get government out of the way, quit wasting money on government picking losers, keep taxes low, encourage growth, responsibility and employment and otherwise make it a friendly place to live and do business you prosper. When you don't you get California and Greece.

The facts speak for themselves, Texas is working and doing well.

So any advance on the republic of Texas then seceeding from the Republic of Taxes

Oooohhh.. Clete made a play on words. :)

so any advance on the republic of Texas then seceeding from the Republic of Taxes

Ha ha, no one is seceding.

Ha ha, no one is seceding.

I wonder why?

I don't.

I understand speech being wupped once is enough

Uh, last time Texas fought a war we defeated Mexico.

Now that Texas' ability to kick a$$ is settled, Indiana's new Republican governor gets it...


On first day in office, Gov. Pence imposes regulatory moratorium in Indiana

Indiana’s new governor, Mike Pence, declared a moratorium on state regulations in an effort to spur job creation across the Hoosier State.

The former House Republican Conference chairman issued an executive order suspending Indiana’s rulemaking process shortly after he was sworn in Monday. The measure is designed to lower the cost of doing business and encourage hiring in the state, where the 8.2 percent unemployment rate is slightly higher than the national average.

“Over several decades the proliferation of administrative rules and regulations at all levels of government has increased the complexity and expense of economic life,” the order says. “Reducing this regulatory burden will promote citizens’ freedom to engage in individual, family and business pursuits.”

In addition to directing state agencies to halt any rulemaking activity indefinitely, the order requires the state’s budget office to evaluate existing rules and put forth recommendations for which should be repealed, beginning with the most onerous.

Pence’s administration is also eyeing federal regulations. Late last week, Indiana Attorney Gen. Greg Zoeller announced plans to dispatch a deputy attorney general to Washington, a step he said was made necessary by an increase in federal actions that encroach on states’ “zone of legal authority.”

Read more: On first day in office, Gov. Pence imposes regulatory moratorium in Indiana - The Hill's RegWatch (http://thehill.com/blogs/regwatch/business/277289-on-first-day-in-office-gov-pence-imposes-regulatory-moratorium-in-indiana#ixzz2I5KzNAdH)


Sweet. We need more of that.

Uh, last time Texas fought a war we defeated Mexico.

I recall that was after they wupped your arse, but seriously, you participated as a state in that fracas they called the Civil War and you didn't come out ahead. I seriously don't understand why Texas didn't go it alone.

Now that Texas' ability to kick a$$ is settled, Indiana's new Republican governor gets it...Sweet. We need more of that.

Sounds good until we see what regulation reforms he is talking about. Then we can see how sweet it is and who it benefits. You righties always talk about too much regulations without being able to name any.

I always liked Pence in the House. I thought he would eventually rise to Republican leadership.

The new plan by Speaker Bonehead is to kick the debt ceiling can down to road for several months,and force the Senate to pass a budget or forfeit their pay.

Evidently Speaker Bonehead never read the Amendment he helped usher into the Constitution in 1992 .
No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened.(27th Amendment ) .

Actually this isn't even kicking the can... since the debt ceiling will be increased ;the new higher number will be the new base line in May. This is more abject surrender.

Correction... it uses a gimmick to temporarily "suspend " the debt ceiling... sort of .

The bill would suspend the debt ceiling until May 19 rather than increasing its level. It would then retroactively increase the borrowing limit to account for whatever debt the Treasury issues in the interim period to pay its bills. It was structured in this way to avoid House Republican lawmakers having to cast a vote for legislation that would increase the debt ceiling, even though, ultimately that is what will occur.
House Passes Debt-Ceiling Bill - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323539804578259910309186042.html)
Disgusting... kudos to the Republicans who voted no.

I'm not for kicking the can down the road either, just raise the thing and get on with bigger battles to come.

This is the battle that needs to be engaged at the moment . Right now there is no fight in the opposition party except for the few conservatives who Speaker Bonehead has already marginalized. .

Tom why does everything have to be a fight, perhaps Boehner has realised that squabbling only damages the nation. The time has come to get some real plans for going forward

The stock market seems to react when they have news from the hill.

Not only your stock market but markets around the world, all this fiscal cliff nonsense has been very damaging even though we are not directly involved, we are starting to see normality return, so we hope you aren't going to spoil it with these childish spats

Yeah everyone likes it when the US government spends money it doesn't have. We have a $16 trillion debt . At the rate we've spend under Emperor Zero we will have a $20+ trillion debt. When is enough enough ?

Tom I agree you need to control and reduce debt in order to have stability, but brinkmanship to gain political advantage isn't the answer. There are serious issues here that both sides aren't willing to let go of. When you have problems like these you start by removing discretionary expenditure and increasing revenue. You let programs expire and you definitely say no to staples. You restructure so future benefits are different, they may not match what existing programs are but they set long term goals.You need to fundamentally change in the way you do business if you hope to make real inroads into the problem. It is all politically unpalitiable. The problem has been fifty years in the making and it might take fifty years to unwind it. It begins with budgets in surplus and to do that you have to have a real budgettary process

The alternative is to let it all go to hell in a hand cart and allow massive inflation and devaluation to take over

but brinkmanship to gain political advantage isn't the answer
Tell that to the President . There has to be two partners at the table to negotiate.

You restructure so future benefits are different,
Careful now ;you are talking about the sacred cows of the libs here.

The problem could have been solved 4 years ago if the repubs number one priority wasn't to say no to everything to make Obama a one term president. All that energy, time and money spent and what do we have to show for it?

Still you blame him, and not acknowledge the part that you guys have played in this exercise in desperation. But conservatives shouldn't panic. Just shut up and get out of the way, and stop pulling crap.

When is enough enough?

Obviously Tal enough is already enough but partisan politics isn't ready to stop point scoring, there is a whole new crop of politicians who need to count some coup and in this era when few scalps are to be had that might make negotiations difficult

Theatrics is no substitute for effective governance.

What universe do you live in Tal? Government is 90% theatrics, photo ops, press calls, hearings, spin. It is what passes for governance

Then enjoy the theatrics, and don't complain about the lack of governance. Vote for Mickey Mouse, or a conservative.

Theatrics is no substitute for effective governance.

That's an odd phrase coming from someone who supports the master of political theater, our president.