sour grapes or is that sour gripes

Don't like facts... do you...

The prize in a McDonalds Happy Meal has more value than the Nobel prize does these days... because everyone with two brain cells knows he got that for doing absolutely nothing... and he still has done avbsolutely nothing that would merit it.

And its also common knowledge Obama considers the Muslim horde his "brothers". He has said as much himself.

Don't like facts...do you....

The prize in a McDonalds Happy Meal has more value than the Nobel prize does these days....because everyone with two brain cells knows he got that for doing absolutely nothing.....and he still has done avbsolutely nothing that would merit it.

And its also common knowledge Obama considers the Muslim horde his "brothers". He has said as much himself.

What on earth are you on about?

"I am a Muslim," Obama Tells Egyptian Foreign Minister Gheit Islamic Coup on the White House - Atlas Shrugs (http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/06/-obama-tells-egyptian-foreign-minister-i-am-a-muslim-stealth-coup-on-the-white-house.html)

http://www.conservativecrusader.com/articles/b-hussein-obama-i-will-stand-with-the-muslims

http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/06/report_obama_said_i_am_a_musli.html

http://www.danielpipes.org/11952/obama-muslim-childhood

Well I though this was a given no one educated in a muslim madrassa is not a muslim but it isn't a disqualifiaction for president

well I though this was a given no one educated in a muslim madrassa is not a muslim but it isn't a disqualifiaction for president

Being a bold faced liar IS...

Hello again, smoothy:

I'm NOT convinced yet. Gimme MORE bumper stickers... That'll do it.

excon

Hello again,

So, I'm watching FOX.. I want to know what THEY think about the breakthrough that occurred last night... FOX and Friends is over, and the "REAL" news started.

So, I'm waiting.. They're talking about the weather.. I wait some more, and they're talking with Paul Ryan about the budget. So, I wait some more, and they bring on Stuart Varney to talk about the FED... Oh, yeah.. Next they're going to talk about the parents who kidnapped their kids and headed to Havana...

So, I don't know what's going on... Why aren't they discussing this? What does it mean?? Smoothy??

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

I'm NOT convinced yet. Gimme MORE bumper stickers... That'll do it.

excon

You worship "the Messiah"... that says it all.

Hello again,

So, I'm watching FOX.. I wanna know what THEY think about the breakthrough that occurred last night... FOX and Friends is over, and the "REAL" news started.

So, I'm waiting.. They're talking about the weather.. I wait some more, and they're talking with Paul Ryan about the budget. So, I wait some more, and they bring on Stuart Varney to talk about the FED... Oh, yeah.. Next they're gonna talk about the parents who kidnapped their kids and headed to Havana...

So, I dunno what's going on... Why aren't they discussing this? What does it mean??? Smoothy????

excon

They talked about the guy that held firemen hostage and how the IRS gestapo don't think they need a warrant to read your emails.

The new bill is going nowhere, but on the off chance it does I'm going shopping.

http://www.impactguns.com/

Actually I think I'll go shopping anyway, any suggestions?

Hello tom/steve:

I guess you AREN'T joined at the hip. Tom said he'd follow Senator Toomey's lead. You, not so much.

excon

Hello tom/steve:

I guess you AREN'T joined at the hip. Tom said he'd follow Senator Toomey's lead. You, not so much.

excon

What is the point of keeping records of background checks forever? If I pass the check leave me the hell alone.

Bottom line is that when the Missouri Highway patrol voluntarily hands over the complete conceal and carry permit list to the Feds... no one is going to believe that the government isn't preparing to create a defacto registry.. even if they call it something else like universal backround checks.
Highway patrol gave feds Missouri weapon permits data - Columbia Daily Tribune : News (http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/highway-patrol-gave-feds-missouri-weapon-permits-data/article_266b644e-a235-11e2-a8e7-0019bb30f31a.html)

It's a matter of trust . No one is going to believe that their private ownership of guns will not become public information. The governments of Rockland and Westchester Counties in NY violated that trust when they willingly gave that information to the Journal News .
No one who has a mental illness is going to believe that their health condition will remain private . (of course we will now be in the brave new world where everyone's health information potentially can become public knowledge thanks to Obamacare's provisions to standardize and mandate national electronic medical records ) .
Meet two filing suit over NY SAFE Act | WIVB.com (http://www.wivb.com/dpp/news/new_york/meet-two-filing-suit-over-ny-safe-act)

Hello tom/steve:

I guess you AREN'T joined at the hip. Tom said he'd follow Senator Toomey's lead. You, not so much.

excon

I said I trusted Toomey more that Schumer . I also said the 'devil was in the details ' and that I'd have to find out what was in his proposal 1st .

Come on Tom this is a brave new world you don't need to know the details, those are on a need to know basis and you don't need to know, trust your local politician

Yeah well I don't buy it . Toomey and Manchin had a presser where they outlined an agreement that NO ONE saw in writing . Based on that ,the idiot Senate voted to let it go to the floor for a vote . Now they will debate the bill which no one read ,and probably pass it . Then that wuss Bonehead said he would allow anything the Senate passed to get a vote in the House .
So what we will have is another bill passed and signed that no one read. We saw how that is working out with the disastrous 0bama care law. Enough of that already !

Like I said, time to go shopping.

Hello again, Steve:


Like I said, time to go shopping.Try gun shows. That's where ALL the people I met in the slam shop. I hear terrorists shop there too.

Excon

I'm sure there's one coming up here soon.

Actually.. Obama and his horde of Mongols have armed more criminals in the last 4 years... than anyone at gun shows the last 20 years..

You do remember the Fast and Furious program?

Connecticut Democrat Chris Murphy is asking (http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/2013/04/connecticut-sen-pleads-with-murdoch-dont-air-nra-161502.html)Rupert Murdoch not to air the NRA 500 from Texas Motor Speedway this weekend.

And I was just thinking, denying a bunch of those armed to the teeth rednecks their NASCAR race is exactly what I would do as a gun control advocate.

I'm convinced Connecticut is populated by morons.

Hello again, Steve:

Surprise, surprise, surprise. Ahh lak NASCAR too. Thas where I lernd my car has tars.. U no tars, doncha? Thms the thins on mah weels.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

Surprise, surprise, surprise. Ahh lak NASCAR too. Thas where i lernd my car has tars.. U no tars, doncha? Thms the thins on mah weels.

excon

Huh?

Hello again, Steve:

Don't know how u Texas boys don no nuthin about no tars.

Expun

We Texas boys drive on tires rolling over tars.

We Texas boys drive on tires rolling over tars.
Arnch yer tars yer tires?

Arnch yer tars yer tires?

No ma'am, we're civilized, we put tires on our pickups.

Arnts got nutin to do with tars. Calla stermintr.

Elo tal:

Stermintr? Wat I going to sterminate? Dus it wurk on rit wingers?

Scon

Sometimes I just got to let you guys speak for yourself.

Elo tal:

Stermintr?? Wat I gonna sterminate? Dus it wurk on rit wingers?

scon

It shuld but you betta add mo jerk juice to make sure. Poson makes them suckas gro biga sometimes.

Making fun of blacks now?

You fellas you just canit take a joke eh!

Hello again,

Here's a bumper sticker for you... If men got pregnant, abortions would be available in a barber shop.

excon

Here's another one, if women had to work the working day would be one hour long

Hello again,

Here's a bumper sticker for you... If men got pregnant, abortions would be available in a barber shop.

excon

If men got pregnant... there would be far more REAL birth control used.

Abortion is murder... not a form of birth control.

If men got pregnant.....there would be far more REAL birth control used.
Like they so faithfully use it now...

So that white upper middle class female who has a D&C in her gynecologist office (http://women.webmd.com/guide/d-and-c-dilation-and-curettage)is a murderer? But nothing is said about those that can afford it, just poor low income females with no insurance are your targets.

So that white upper middle class female who has a D&C in her gynecologist office (http://women.webmd.com/guide/d-and-c-dilation-and-curettage)is a murderer? But nothing is said about those that can afford it, just poor low income females with no insurance are your targets.

Like those poor women in Philadelphia and Delaware?

Nice deflection of the asked question.

Nice deflection of the asked question.

Learned it from you. I'll answer yours if you answer mine.

This serial killer was aided and abetted by someone who got paid to look the other way and I think his clients were looking for a late term abortion.

Maybe you don't remember the days when people knew people who would be willing to break the law and put females at risk. That was before Roe V Wade. Abortion didn't start in America in the 70's. Its been a practice for centuries all over the world. The women just never told the men what they knew or did with their knowledge.

Like I say, well to do females have ways that the poor ones don't, and always will. You have heard me say many times that education and resources reduces abortions and that's a good thing.

Solve poverty, you solve the need for PP.

We can't solve poverty by keeping people dependent on government handouts.

We can't solve poverty by keeping people dependent on government handouts.
So how do you solve it?

They wouldn't need handouts with a living wage and fairness in the way finances are circulated, that was completely eroded by the global banks and corporation. How can we ignore that in the face of a global melt down that made so many dependent in the first place?

Its so hard to explain what a person goes through that has lost everything they have built for 10,15, 20 years and tries to start over. What does it say when TWO Walmart workers have to have a hand out?

Notice I said circulated, not redistributed. Your idea of a hand out is another families helping hand. Millions of people didn't just quit their jobs for a handout. They got laid off for long periods, or they got laid off permanently. Worse the job market is tight, and some employers don't even hire unemployed people or low skilled workers.

But they scream they need trained people from overseas to fill their openings. There are many things at play that makes people dependent on government. Cheap labor means poverty my friend, and wages are stagnant. Has been for a long time. Retraining is necessary, expensive, and time consuming, and you still have to pay the rent and lights.

Or be dependent on mom and dad if you have one that's got loot.

Solve poverty, you solve the need for PP

Uhh no... do you think only poor women wack their babies ? Do you think only the uneducated have unprotected sex ? There is no way you could pin 50 million executions of babies on poor and uneducated . There is also no way you could convince me that over a million babies were being wacked annually when the procedure was illegal . Yes there were abortions before 1973... But it is undeniable that there has been a proliferation of them since it became legal to kill a baby .

Yes there were abortions before 1973 ... But it is undeniable that there has been a proliferation of them since it became legal to kill a baby .
There are also more women hanging about since 1973. So what's the solution? I'm still stuck on the parents teaching their children (both boys and girls) to respect their bodies and not have kids until they are emotionally and financially ready. Now, what are we going to do about TV and movie people and the "free sex" image they project? Even the prime-time sitcoms get into it and show sex as an everyday normal thing and just part of dating like holding hands. And we are still in that "instant gratification" mode -- if it feels good, do it.

I can only do so much ;raise my own family and try to persuade others to see it my way. The pathway to adulthood is tough enough without insisting that our children pass through the fires of Molech. Our false idols are the things you describe... especially that "instant gratification" mode... or if I were to lump them into one false idol ,that would be the worship of self with the false sense of no consequences.

...or if I were to lump them into one false idol ,that would be the worship of self with the false sense of no consequences.

OK Tom we can all identify the problem but we have to be part of the solution.

There is no doubt that public perception of morality has changed, obviously fueled by the, let's call them what they are, pornografic images sold to us by the licentious film makers.
But we have lost our discernment, we fail to reject these products.

But we have lost our discernment, we fail to reject these products.
Indeed . You talk about solutions and the only one I can think of is a rejection of the humanism that has led society down the road to perdition.

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/drunks1.jpg

image
Too bad there is no national registry for cars or that states don't cooperate in giving out information.

Too bad there is no national registry for cars or that states don't cooperate in giving out information.

They don't have a registry of SOBER people. Or a national registry of sane people.

And the difference is your don't have a constitutional right to drive... you do have a constitutional right to own guns.

Interesting argument

They don't have a registry of SOBER people. Or a national registry of sane people.
Gun owners are all sober and sane?

Gun owners are all sober and sane?

So are car drivers so that means all car drivers are gun owners. The logical conclusion therefore is if you have a drivers licence you can own a gun because you are already on the register

It seems poiticians are looking for solutions that don't anger the gun lobby they should be more concerned about angering the electorate

it seems poiticians are looking for solutions that don't anger the gun lobby they should be more concerned about angering the electorate
There is no national clamor for gun legislation. The fact that the Emperor has to go across the nation campaigning for it shows that it is not on the top of the national agenda. Trumped up polls that show approval of back round checks paint an incomplete portrait of the landscape . Instead of demonizing a lobby group ,of which a false claim is made that it is driving the pro-gun side ;everyone should consider why exactly the NRA has such influence. The answer is that the populace favors their efforts to support 2nd amendment rights.
Newton, as Wondergirl argues , is an example of the breakdown of family and core values of what made this country great and exemplifies the lack of acceptance of personal responsibility and a of moral compass. No gun legislation is going to fix that .

indeed . You talk about solutions and the only one I can think of is a rejection of the humanism that has led society down the road to perdition.

That's a good idea.

Reject the product of there Enlightenment in favour of what? Ideology. Your society and my society is an ongoing product of the humanist experiment.

Perhaps ;but the enlightenment thinkers had a solid moral foundation . You cannot honestly dismiss the role of Christianity in the formation of the United States society ;and I suspect yours. When I speak of humanism ,I am speaking of the late 20th century construct ;which is heavy on relativism .

perhaps ;but the enlightenment thinkers had a solid moral foundation . You cannot honestly dismiss the role of Christianity in the formation of the United States society ;and I suspect yours. When I speak of humanism ,I am speaking of the late 20th century construct ;which is heavy on relativism .

Well, I guess they did.But I think you are going to have problems arguing that the various moral theory that derived from the Enlightenment were not "solid" The scientific possibilities that arose from the Enlightenment was a rejection of the "solid" element of morality. That was the whole idea.

I am not rejecting Christianity when it comes morality. What I am rejecting is the politicising of individual morality that is based on tradition, religion and other absolutist arguments.

My society had as its basis many different founding traditions including Christianity. The most dominant founding tradition was the belief that we were a working class nation. I would like to think that this tradition is still strong in the Australian psyche.

When you speak of humanism of course you are speaking of "relativism". When talking about the Enlightenment and the scientific possibilities... You expect to be talking about something else?

OK then explain the permissive moral rot in other terms . Who knows ,maybe it is a flaw in enlightenment thinking .

Hello tom:


OK then explain the permissive moral rot in other terms .Freedom.

Excon

That is not freedom ;what we have is the French revolution waiting for Napoleon to restore order .

ok then explain the permissive moral rot in other terms . Who knows ,maybe it is a flaw in enlightenment thinking .

Of course it was a flaw in their thinking. This was always going to happen given enough time. Of course it gave rise to numerous possibilities. Do you think they were promoting some sort of ideological position? Like science it was an ongoing ended experiment.

Tut

Of course it was a flaw in their thinking. This was always going to happen given enough time. Of course it gave rise to numerous possibilities. Do you think they were promoting some sort of ideological position? Like science it was an ongoing ended experiment.

Tut

That's why Tocqueville praised the role of religion in the American experiment .

There is no better illustration of the usefulness and naturalness of religion, since the country where its influence is greatest today is also the country that is freest and most enlightened.

Hello again, tom:

You have YOUR moral rot, and I have MINE.

Let me see. Keeping people who love each other from getting married is a rotten thing to do. Putting people in jail for smoking pot, is really ROTTEN. Closing abortion clinics forcing women to travel long distances, or use a coat hanger, is pretty rotten...

Shall I go on?

excon

No you have your definition of marriage and I have mine... I do not favor imprisoning pot smokers no matter how many time you try to pin that on me. You belly ache about closed abortion clinics and don't say a word about the legal butchery that is more common than you would like to admit given your silence about the Philly clinic .

that's why Tocqueville praised the role of religion in the American experiment .

I'm not saying it wasn't useful. I don't really know the details but I would imagine that one role of religion may well have been to act as some type of common bonding element for that early society.

Tut

Hello again, tom:

You have YOUR moral rot, and I have MINE.

Lemme see. Keeping people who love each other from getting married is a rotten thing to do. Putting people in jail for smoking pot, is really ROTTEN. Closing abortion clinics forcing women to travel long distances, or use a coat hanger, is pretty rotten...

Shall I go on?

excon

Please give us some more of your twisted philosophy, why don't you really say what you mean. Just do it because if fells good and to hell with everyone else

Hello again, clete:


please give us some more of your twisted philosophy,What you call twisted, I call freedom.

But, let me see if I can find something REALLY twisted to satisfy you... Oh, yeah... My government is reading my emails and listening to my phone calls. That's rotten. My government TORTURED people... That's STINKING. My government keeps people imprisoned FOREVER without convicting them of anything... That's as rotten as you get...

Happy now?

Excon

Freedom is also guaranteeing my second amendment rights.

Freedom is letting me exercise all my rights in pursuit of my happiness. :) Keep your guns, but don't expect me to take your word for it that your relatives are as sane as you are.

And don't tell me YOUR traditions and dogma or church is better than mine. Or your freedom is more important than mine, or your morals are better than mine. That's an opinion and you have a right to it in your house, not mine.

That's fair ain't it, even if you don't like it, right? So keep your second amendment rights and let a female keep her right to choose a legal abortion. That's fair too... RIGHT?

Freedom is letting me exercise all my rights in pursuit of my happiness. :) Keep your guns, but don't expect me to take your word for it that your relatives are as sane as you are.

And don't tell me YOUR traditions and dogma or church is better than mine. Or your freedom is more important than mine, or your morals are better than mine. That's an opinion and you have a right to it in your house, not mine.

That's fair ain't it, even if you don't like it, right?

If what your saying is something you truly believe in then why is it that the following situation exists?

Why is it when you ask Dems about being pro choice they resoundingly state YES! But when asked about the choices other make then they decry their supriority. Things like smoking or gun control or a moment of silence to reflect. If you truly believe as you say then there wouldn't be the big push from your side to limit those around you by force.

Where is the logic in telling a populace that they don't know any better so your going to force them by gun to do your superior bidding?

so your going to force them by gun to do your superior bidding?

Examples please, you lost me. I don't care if you smoke, OR what you smoke. Light 'em if you got 'em.

Freedom is letting me exercise all my rights in pursuit of my happiness. :) Keep your guns, but don't expect me to take your word for it that your relatives are as sane as you are.

And don't tell me YOUR traditions and dogma or church is better than mine. Or your freedom is more important than mine, or your morals are better than mine. That's an opinion and you have a right to it in your house, not mine.

That's fair ain't it, even if you don't like it, right? So keep your second amendment rights and let a female keep her right to choose a legal abortion. That's fair too.......................RIGHT?

Gosnell was performing legal abortions while the state turned their head, so apply that to your don't expect me to trust your relatives logic.

Otherwise got to agree with caldad, choice and freedom to libs tends to be only those choices and freedoms they agree with.

Examples please, you lost me. I don't care if you smoke, OR what you smoke. Light 'em if you got 'em.

Ok, there are private property rights in this country. As an owner of a private business then within reason it is up to the owner to to set the working conditions. But in most states if you own a bar and those allowed in it are adults only you can't decide on behalf of the business to allow smoking on the premises, How about the auto shop where exhaust is spewed into the air but god forbid someone lights up a legal product. If you disobey you can receive the full force of the law which is the part that has guns pointed at you when they take you away for re-education.

How about when it was made illegal to enjoy a soda the size of your choosing ? If something is put into law and that law is broken they don't just do nothing.

Why is it that if a student were to bring a bible to school to read then it is banned as if it were pornographic material and for disobeying there are heavy reprecussions? Freedon isn't just about what you want. And your happiness has no guarantee. You are allowed to pursue it but by no means are you allowed to force it upon others.

We all have our own paths in life. It is the blending of those paths that give flavor to life. Law of a society need to be in place to allow society to grow. Many today feel that the cause of the greater good is only vested in themselves. That is how the use of the guns is coming into play.

Where is the sreaming going on when restrictive fees are being charged for doing the right thing (after all it goes against the principle of hurting the poor doesn't it?).

Look at Obamacare. It too has been foisted upon us without even reading it and now will be issued under the threat of a gun if not followed to the letter. See a trend here?

Next up, telling you how much money you can save for retirement and/or confiscating it.

As a private property owner that has had that property taken (fairly compensated{?}) under "imminent domain" I can fully agree with many of your points. Unfortunately many knee jerk impulsive reactions by lawmakers, local, state and federal often takes many years to correct and not without a public out cry. Sometimes those efforts fail, no matter the good of the cause or arguments.

I don't know if it's a dem, repub thing, more though as private interests drives most policy, such things tend to drive me NUTS.

Who was it that said they wouldn't confiscate your guns over a little depression - or in this case a little anxiety? NY has been busy confiscating guns since their SAFEact passed. They took thus guy's because ge once took a little anti-anxiety meducation, which apparently is a violation.

Judge orders guns returned to Amherst man mistakenly identified as violating the SAFE Act - Buffalo (http://buffalo.ynn.com/content/top_stories/655499/judge-orders-guns-returned-to-amherst-man-mistakenly-identified-as-violating-the-safe-act/)

Really? Taking a half a Xanax could lead to confiscation in NY? What's next, enjoying a glass of wine?

As a private property owner that has had that property taken (fairly compensated{?}) under "imminent domain" I can fully agree with many of your points. Unfortunately many knee jerk impulsive reactions by lawmakers, local, state and federal often takes many years to correct and not without a public out cry. Sometimes those efforts fail, no matter the good of the cause or arguments.

I don't know if its a dem, repub thing, more though as private interests drives most policy, such things tend to drive me NUTS.

It is the narrowmindedness of the politicians we have today as well as the special interests that have infected the system like a virus. It is truly a shame that we have long term politicians because it keeps the fresh ideas from coming forward. I believe the fore fathers never invisioned lifetime politicians. I truly believe they were meant to live under the laws they created rather then be exempt. That alone has created mass animosity for government rule as well as bred a huge mistrust in the way things are handled.

Honest debate should always start by looking at the real problem and not those guided by party lines. Education for the law makers should be paramount to any issue taking place that is up for vote. Emotion drives many issues. But when you react purely on emotion then you subvert the greater good.

Just look at how the gun debate is being handled and the parade of victims being passed in front of our eyes to twist reality. We all need to stand strong and peer through the fog so we may sift the information with clear vision for the future.

Who was it that said they wouldn't confiscate your guns over a little depression - or in this case a little anxiety? NY has been busy confiscating guns since their SAFEact passed. They took thus guy's because ge once took a little anti-anxiety meducation, which apparently is a violation.

Judge orders guns returned to Amherst man mistakenly identified as violating the SAFE Act - Buffalo (http://buffalo.ynn.com/content/top_stories/655499/judge-orders-guns-returned-to-amherst-man-mistakenly-identified-as-violating-the-safe-act/)

Really? Taking a half a Xanax could lead to confiscation in NY? What's next, enjoying a glass of wine?



Careful with what you say. Since he was a permit holder then you are not allowed any alcohol while carrying. There is zero tolerance for that. But no where in the article and most importantly was it shown that his lawyer fees were paid for by the State / County that created the problem in the first place. They did address his possible redress in the federal courts but what has happened and going to happen on a nationwide basis can be a nightmare for those involved and a god send to lawyers looking to make a few bucks.

Gosnell was performing legal abortions while the state turned their head, so apply that to your don't expect me to trust your relatives logic.

Otherwise gotta agree with caldad, choice and freedom to libs tends to be only those choices and freedoms they agree with.

I question that legality.


It is the narrowmindedness of the politicians we have today as well as the special interests that have infected the system like a virus. It is truely a shame that we have long term politicians because it keeps the fresh ideas from coming forward. I believe the fore fathers never invisioned lifetime politicians. I truely believe they were meant to live under the laws they created rather then be exempt. That alone has created mass animosity for government rule as well as bred a huge mistrust in the way things are handled.

Honest debate should always start by looking at the real problem and not those guided by party lines. Education for the law makers should be paramount to any issue taking place that is up for vote. Emotion drives many issues. But when you react purely on emotion then you subvert the greater good.

Just look at how the gun debate is being handled and the parade of victims being passed in front of our eyes to twist reality. We all need to stand strong and peer through the fog so we may sift the information with clear vision for the future.


Lawmakers don't listen to constituents, they listen to donors who have lobbyists, mostly former lawmakers. That a damn shame in my opinion. One would hope our lawmakers were already properly educated before we elect them.

I question that legality.




Lawmakers don't listen to constituents, they listen to donors who have lobbyists, mostly former lawmakers. That a damn shame in my opinion. One would hope our lawmakers were already properly educated before we elect them.

Properly educated is a base term. Just look at how many rumors I have tried to dispel in this thread alone and all of us are aducated people at our own level. What Im calling for is education of the matter at hand no matter what that is. If it is up for a vote it should be by an informed decision and not just by some lobby of the day.

Of course it was a flaw in their thinking. This was always going to happen given enough time. Of course it gave rise to numerous possibilities. Do you think they were promoting some sort of ideological position? Like science it was an ongoing ended experiment.

Tut

[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. John Adams

"Religion and morality are the essential pillars of civil society." George Washington.

Does that mean only Christian morality? Atheist need not apply?

I didn't say that.. they said a religious and moral people. One can be religious and still reject a creator god. Just ask the Hindu and Buddhist.

[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. John Adams

"Religion and morality are the essential pillars of civil society." George Washington.

I think there is inadequate space to discuss the separation of religion and morality as per the quotes. If indeed, they can be separated at all.

The Enlightenment gave rise to the possibility that ethics and theology could be distinct. What we have is a history of human knowledge (rightly or wrongly) being the foundation of a society.

We have all testified here that when push comes to shove religion is made to fit the science of law and politics. That's the tradition we have inherited from the Enlightenment. The whole idea is to prevent the sciences from fitting the religion.


P.S.

In case someone reminds me. I know this has very little to do with the current thread.

[W]e have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. . . . Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. John Adams

"Religion and morality are the essential pillars of civil society." George Washington.

Tom look at what you have just posted, in defending your second amendment you are assuming your nation comprises a moral and religious people, the fact is that in many respects it is far from that allowing permissiveness and licentuiousness under the rights conferred by that same constitution and even your founders said It is wholly inadequate to the government of such circumstances

Those pillars that Washington spoke of have been eroded and therefore obviously need to be reinforced by other means

I am not ready to abandon the constitution .Like I already stated is that people who lose their liberty due to the effects of societal moral decay are ripe for the next Napoleon. Rather I'll continue to state my case that the direction the nation has turned is the wrong one.

Let me remind you that Napoleon, despite his adventurism and despotism, reformed the laws and that his system remains today. One should not fear reform and even complete change

Yeah nothing like a military dictatorship to restore order... and you ask why we want to keep our 2nd amendment rights.. why we don't want a national registry of gun owners .

I hope we have gotten way past that civil war stuff in America.

I hope we have gotten way past that civil war stuff in America.

Most of us have... a lot of one certain ethnic group seem to have a problem doing that for the most part.

I was born a Yankee but I've spent nearly all of my adult life in the south... so I relate to the Rebels far more than I do to the north.

And there are far too many northern liberals that can't get past it and let us southerners have our Rebel flag... probably because they still fear the south...

yeah nothing like a military dictatorship to restore order... and you ask why we want to keep our 2nd amendment rights.. why we don't want a national registry of gun owners .

You don't want responsibility you don't honestly think that you could successful resist the military with small arms do you? This is civil war thinking


I hope we have gotten way past that civil war stuff in America.

Well Tal I don't think you have, not as long as people like Tom are around

And I still question just how passionate the military would be about suppressing their fellow Americans in the just cause of protecting our freedom from a repressive government.

Hello again,

There's an argument to be made about the second Amendment. It SHOULD be made between intelligent human beings who are GROUNDED in reality... But, when ONE side says they need their guns to defend themselves against the U.S. Army, the conversation has gone off the rails..

And then to THINK that the US Army would JOIN that rebellion is nuts, nuts, and even more nuts than that.

excon

Hello again,

There's an argument to be made about the second Amendment. It SHOULD be made between intelligent human beings who are GROUNDED in reality... But, when ONE side says they need their guns to defend themselves against the U.S. Army, the conversation has gone off the rails..

And then to THINK that the US Army would JOIN that rebellion is nuts, nuts, and even more nuts than that.

excon

Ex I agree with you this is civil war thinking, and so is the idea that citizens will support the army in resisting an invader effectively. Actually what is needed is that such people get out of the way

Hello again, Steve


And I still question just how passionate the military would be about suppressing their fellow Americans in the just cause of protecting our freedom from a repressive government.Do you question how passionately we went after Tim McVeigh? What makes YOU think YOUR rebellion is going to any more popular than HIS was??

Excon

Hello again, Steve

Do you question how passionately we went after Tim McVeigh?? What makes YOU think YOUR rebellion is going to any more popular than HIS was???

excon

Ex there is some sort of ego thinking operating here, the vigilante, the spirt of Zorro, of Batman even, but they are all in their head or even worse

Hello again, clete:


Ex there is some sort of ego thinking operating here, the vigilante, the spirt of Zorro, of Batman even, but they are all in their head or even worseCouple things... I don't doubt the military WOULD act against a repressive government. But, a government that elects its president and debates the passage of laws pursuant to its RULES, isn't repressive... It's not even close. George W. Bush taking away our 4th, 5th, and 6th Amendment rights was MUCH closer to REPRESSION than ANYTHING Obama is doing...

On the other hand, maybe we need to see one side WHIPPED up on real good before we can get something done... I'm ready to go.

Excon

Hello again, Steve

Do you question how passionately we went after Tim McVeigh?? What makes YOU think YOUR rebellion is going to any more popular than HIS was???

excon

First of all I'm not McVeigh, I'm not cult in Waco and I'm not plannng any rebellion. But for you to think we're too stupid to come up with a viable plan that includes a large segment of our military is what's ridiculous. This isn't Syria, and I'm quite certain more of our military sympathizes with us than say, president zero. We defeated the British military, Israel kicked eveyone's a$$, you obviously underestimate the underdog.

What's disturbing is your apparent ease with the thought of our government suppressing us to the point of rebellion, in which case I would have hoped you would be on the side of freedom. Sounds like you're OK with us ceding our freedom without a fight.

Hello again, Steve:


Sounds like you're OK with us ceding our freedom without a fight.See, here's where it goes off the rails.. To ME, going through a background check before you can buy a gun, is NOT CEDING any right that I can find. It's NOT even close.. And, I KNOW the Constitution pretty good.

Now, ordering the NSA to READ your email and LISTEN to your phone calls is CEDING a right. YOUR man did that. I didn't hear ANYTHING from you then.

Look. I'm ready for Civil War part Deux. Maybe after you're defeated a second time, we can move forward.

Excon

Hell
On the other hand, maybe we need to see one side WHIPPED up on real good before we can get something done... I'm ready to go.

excon

Ex you are surely not serious, political debate is one thing, revolution another.

Look, I agree change is needed, you can't have a country that is ungovernable because one side rejects what the ballot box tells them, even if it sends conflicting signals. If that happens it means the system is flawed and needs to be corrected, and that needs to be made a priority.

I'm not talking out of the side of my mouth here, the problems you face have been seen before and it takes real courage to tackle them

Hello again, Steve:

See, here's where it goes off the rails.. To ME, going through a background check before you can buy a gun, is NOT CEDING any right that I can find. It's NOT even close.. And, I KNOW the Constitution pretty good.

Now, ordering the NSA to READ your email and LISTEN to your phone calls is CEDING a right. YOUR man did that. I didn't hear ANYTHING from you then.

Look. I'm ready for Civil War part Deux. Maybe after you're defeated a second time, we can move forward.

excon

We already have background checks, but even expanding them is NOT where your side wants to stop. Interesting also that you defend the constitution and freedom in one breath and endorse a war to put us in our place the next.

Ex you are surely not serious, political debate is one thing, revolution another.

look, I agree change is needed, you can't have a country that is ungovernable because one side rejects what the ballot box tells them, even if it sends conflicting signals. If that happens it means the system is flawed and needs to be corrected, and that needs to be made a priority.

I'm not talking out of the side of my mouth here, the problems you face have been seen before and it takes real courage to tackle them

Yup ,you already said we need Napoleonic dictatorship .
Tocqueville argued that democracy was capable of breeding its own form of despotism, albeit of the "soft" variety.. . "an immense protective power" that took all responsibility for everyone's happiness. The trade off was that this power remained "sole agent and judge of it." This power would "resemble parental authority" and would try to keep people "in perpetual childhood" by protecting them "from all the trouble of thinking and all the cares of living."

You ask why this country continues it's moral decline. It's because we have been seduced by the attraction of the nanny-state .

Hello again, Steve:


but even expanding them is NOT where your side wants to stop.

Couple things. Fighting a rebellion IS in the cause of freedom. Secondarily, if you're going to feel PUT in your place, then don't start something.. Cause if you do, you WILL be put in your place.

Finally, if WANTING to pass serious gun reform is TYRANNY, let me get off this wacko train right now...

Excon

You ask why this country continues it's moral decline. It's because we have been seduced by the attraction of the nanny-state .

You would like to think so but in fact it has been suduced by something else. That is; materialism, the now society. This is the ever present danger of a secular society and your nation was first in line, so first in decline

Hello clete:


This is the ever present danger of a secular society and your nation was first in line, so first in declineIf it's decline to EXPAND freedom to those who've been denied it, sign me up for MORE of that.

Excon

Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
You ask why this country continues it's moral decline. It's because we have been seduced by the attraction of the nanny-state .

I think just the opposite. The country is evolving and more people are being included and joining in the process of building a better union. Nanny state is just a made up catch phrase to deflect attention from that giant sucking sound and blame poor people for being poor.

Now grab your guns and defend the rich guys rights to be rich. What's in YOUR wallet?

Hello again, Steve:



Couple things. Fighting a rebellion IS in the cause of freedom. Secondarily, if you're gonna feel PUT in your place, then don't start something.. Cause if you do, you WILL be put in your place.

Finally, if WANTING to pass serious gun reform is TYRANNY, let me get off this wacko train right now...

excon

Define "serious gun reform." Our side is pretty simple, the constitution guarantees our right to keep and bear arms, your side is all over the map on "serious gun reform."

Hello again, Steve:


Define "serious gun reform."Nahhh.. I'll define the OTHER word I used in that sentence, and that's WANT.

People in hell WANT icewater.. It's a deflection, or a straw man, or a red herring, or just plain nonsensical to say we can't pass a universal background check because the libs WANT more.

In simple English, can you tell me how a universal background check INFRINGES on your right to own a gun??

Please, do NOT tell me about the things NOBODY is proposing as a reason to oppose the stuff somebody actually IS proposing...

Can you do that? Bet not.

Excon

You got guns, and are paranoid!! You can still buy guns, yet are paranoid!! That's all you can talk about, your right to be paranoid!!

Maybe a gun isn't what you need. Sure doesn't make you feel better or less paranoid. Just saying.

Hello again, Steve:

Nahhh.. I'll define the OTHER word I used in that sentence, and that's WANT.

People in hell WANT icewater.. It's a deflection, or a straw man, or a red herring, or just plain nonsensical to say we can't pass a universal background check because the libs WANT more.

In simple English, can you tell me how a universal background check INFRINGES on your right to own a gun???

Please, do NOT tell me about the things NOBODY is proposing as a reason to oppose the stuff somebody actually IS proposing...

Can you do that? Bet not.

excon

Dude, how are you going to enforce "universal" background checks? That's the kind of thing Schmucky's bill did which would make me a felon for taking a vacation with someone house sitting while my guns were there.

Last week I told you about a guy who got his guns confiscated in NY because he allegedly had taken anti-anxiety medication once which is a violation of their hastily passed gun control. According to his lawyer that was no "clerical error," NY state police are allegedly scouring people's medical records (http://www.wgrz.com/news/article/210637/37/Amherst-Man-To-Pick-Up-His-Confiscated-Guns-Monday)for just such things.

You told us to trust you with health care and that ain't working out at all like you said, so sorry, I don't trust you with my second amendment rights. Get over it.

They will never admit that the real goal of universal backround checks is a national registry .

Hello tom:


they will never admit that the real goal of universal backround checks is a national registry Just like you'll never admit that your goal is the reversal of Roe v. Wade and the criminalization of contraceptives.

Excon

I have never heard anyone mention the criminalization of contraceptives but you, I'm not Muslim.

Of course I'll admit to having a goal of reversing Roe. I think it is unconstitutional and the codification of legal murder. Hope I made that plain enough.
Now why not admit that the only possible outcome of universal backround checks is a national registry of guns.

2 killed as 2 bombs explode at Boston Marathon (http://news.yahoo.com/2-killed-2-bombs-explode-boston-marathon-201426272--spt.html)

You got guns, and are paranoid!!! You can still buy guns, yet are paranoid!!!!!!!!! That's all you can talk about, your right to be paranoid!!!

Maybe a gun isn't what you need. Sure doesn't make you feel better or less paranoid. Just saying.

We have already seen it in the news and it has been posted on this thread. How a State tried to take away someone's guns for taking a certain medication. If a national registration were to go through then this condition will be nationwide.

Big Brother: Obamacare Looks to Collect Private Medical Info - Peter Roff (usnews.com) (http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2011/07/28/big-brother-obamacare-looks-to-collect-private-medical-info)

One proposed departmental rule deals with what may become a centralized database containing patient medical records and pharmaceutical claim information.

Hello again, Steve:

I sure don't know why bombs are outlawed. That's a HUGE encroachment on my second Amendment rights.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

I sure don't know why bombs are outlawed. That's a HUGE encroachment on my second Amendment rights.

excon

Actually they are not outlawed. They are regulated heavily by the ATF.

Just heard Wolf Blitzer say it could be tea party or some anti-tax group.

just heard Wolf Blitzer say it could be tea party or some anti-tax group.

Liberal knees are apparently jerking all over. NY Post says they have a suspect (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/authorities_under_suspect_guard_y2m8cJO29uC2PDGIjY BalO)and it's a Saudi national.

Hello again, Steve:

I sure don't know why bombs are outlawed. That's a HUGE encroachment on my second Amendment rights.

excon

Are you a goul, Where is your concern for the maimed and injured? If this is where your rights lead, then you have some serious thinking to do. But no guns involved, there are more effective means of mass murder and terrorism and no guns can prevent it

just heard Wolf Blitzer say it could be tea party or some anti-tax group.

Is that as bad as Bill Maher ?

Bill Maher: Second Amendment Is BS! BLASTS Liberals For Being Scared - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yun1CNjKZiw)




2nd amendment is BS ?

Is that as bad as Bill Maher ?

Bill Maher: Second Amendment Is BS! BLASTS Liberals For Being Scared - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yun1CNjKZiw)

2nd amendment is BS ?

In the context of recent events it just might be, Stockton made the same point in this that I do: this is eighteenth century thinking and is out of date and out of context in relation to the world today. I am pleased there are some right wing americans who see it

Liberal knees are apparently jerking all over. NY Post says they have a suspect (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/national/authorities_under_suspect_guard_y2m8cJO29uC2PDGIjY BalO)and it's a Saudi national.

So out of desperation ,I switched to FOX... and there was Shep Smith referencing Waco and Oklahoma City .
My observation; the bombs went off ;and the next image was 1st responders ,Police , Emergency medical personnel etc .running towards the danger .

Nicholas Kristof blamed Republicans.

Boston Marathon Explosion | Bombing | Nicholas Kristof | Mediaite (http://www.mediaite.com/online/ny-times-columnist-nicholas-kristof-points-finger-at-senate-gop-in-wake-of-boston-explosions-takes-it-back/)

Pathetic dolt...

so out of desperation ,I switched to FOX...and there was Shep Smith referencing Waco and Oklahoma City .
My observation; the bombs went off ;and the next image was 1st responders ,Police , Emergency medical personnel etc .running towards the danger .

And? Of course the images are going to be what's going on on the ground and it's not often you get actual footage of the explosion but even at this distance it had emotional impact

and?
It represents the best instincts of the retards that report the news to us

of course the images are going to be what's going on on the ground and it's not often you get actual footage of the explosion but even at this distance it had emotional impact
Yes the images are horrible... perhaps that is why I search for the heroism... the acts of goodness.

Let's take an act of goodness take the bomber, tie him to a stick of gelignite and let him live out his life with what ever he has left. The goodness is that others will see the example and take warning

So many of the runners continued to run across the finishing line and onwards to the Massachusetts General Hospital, in a rush to give blood, that they had to be turned away.

"Due to the generosity of our donors we don't need blood at this time," wrote the Red Cross for Eastern Massachusetts on Twitter.
But the volunteers kept on coming, leading the organisation to tweet an hour later: "We do *NOT* need blood at this time. Please schedule a future donation."

So great was the wish to help that the Red Cross was forced to set up a diary to arrange appointments for all those queuing up to give blood.

Others provided more immediate assistance. One man was caught on camera rushing straight to site where the bomb had detonated, where bloodied people were lying dazed on the pavement. He ripped off his belt to make a tourniquet and stem the bleeding, before turning to assist other seriously-injured victims.

Luke Russert reported on Twitter that he watched as a white-shirted volunteer in his red official baseball cap wheeled a woman out of the danger zone before rushing immediately back to the scene.

A retired American Football star, Joe Andruzzi, who won the Superbowl three times with the New England Patriots, carried victims away from the carnage (above). All three of his brothers were firemen in New York who responded to the September 11 attacks on the Twin Towers.

His charity cancer foundation was hosting an event on Boylston Street – the same street where the explosions were detonated – and the 37-year-old immediately dashed to help.
Other people opened their homes to those who were stranded, or offered lifts to people without transport. A Google document was set up with offers of help, such as: "Located across the street from Mass General Hospital. I have a couch and an inflatable twin mattress for anyone who needs to stay."

Kristin Corona who lives in central Boston wrote: "I have a couch to offer and two beautiful chihuahuas to love you. My apartment is open to anyone in need."

Restaurants in the area offered free meals and shelter to those caught up in the tragedy, allowing people to pay only if they were able to.

"Open wifi, place to charge your phone, cold drinks, or just don't want to be alone," tweeted the owner of El Pelon, a Mexican restaurant in the area.

"My coworkers and staff deserve a lot of credit: not one blinked when asked, not one when home when they could, those not working came in."

Boston Marathon heroes: Kindness and humanity amid the carnage - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9997305/Boston-Marathon-heroes-Kindness-and-humanity-amid-the-carnage.html)

Barney Frank wasted no time politicizing the Boston Bombing... like a good democrat.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/04/16/barney-frank-politicizes-boston-bombing-no-tax-cut-would-have-helped-us-deal-with-this/


So... when is the left going to push for a Ban on pressure cookers and their confication... and a retrocative registry for every ball bearing in a persons possession so they can track them in case any of them are ever used in a bomb?

Figures . Now there will be alerts about cooking devices. Can the propane Bar B Q grill be far behind ?


Authorities are now saying that the explosive devices in Boston were fashioned from pressure cookers. (Yes, like the closed pot you might use to cook rice at home.) As it happens, pressure cookers have a nefarious history in counterterrorism circles. In 2004, the Department of Homeland Security was concerned enough about pressure cooker bombs to issue an alert to federal and state security officials: “A technique commonly taught in Afghan terrorist training camps is the use/conversion of pressure cookers into IEDs,” the bulletin warned.
That bulletin cited several plots from 2002 to 2004 to use pressure cooker bombs in France, India and Nepal. But more recently there have been at least three other instances of would-be terrorists in the west, all of them Islamic radicals, in possession of pressure cookers for reasons that seemed not to involve having friends over for dinner. One was an Army private linked to the 2010 Fort Hood shooter Nidal Hasan, who had reportedly been taking bomb-making tips from the al Qaeda's short-lived (literally) magazine Inspire and had various weapons and explosives along with his cooking pot. (The magazine reportedly recommended pressure cookers as explosive devices.) A 2010 suicide bomber in Stockholm had rigged a pressure cooker bomb that failed to detonate. And as a newer DHS warning about the kitchen devices noted, the failed 2010 SUV bomb in New York's Times Square was a pressure cooker device featuring 120 firecrackers. The same DHS memo refers to a March 2010 bombing with a pressure cooker at a western Christian aid agency in Pakistan that killed six people.
Counterterror officials are surely well aware of these facts and studying any leads that might link the device in Boston to Islamic radicals here or abroad. But it's important to bear in mind that the ability to make these bombs is hardly unique to al Qaeda and its sympathizers. Details on how to make a pressure cooker bomb can also be found on websites associated with anarchy and other forms of non-religious radicalism, including this one which describes a bomb “affectionately known as a HELLHOUND.” The identity of the Boston bomber or bombers remains very much unclear, and it would be foolish to jump to conclusions. It would also be foolish to ignore the twisted recent history of the pressure cooker as a method for killing innocent people.
A Short Recent History of Pressure Cooker Bombs | TIME.com (http://swampland.time.com/2013/04/16/a-short-history-of-pressure-cooker-bombs/)

They can pry my spatula from my cold dead fingers.

figures . now there will be alerts about cooking devices. Can the propane Bar B Q grill be far behind ?
My mom used to use her pressure cooker to make a fantastic meal with meaty ham bones and white beans. Yum!

Thank goodness everyone had handguns and carry permits in Boston.

figures . now there will be alerts about cooking devices. Can the propane Bar B Q grill be far behind ?


A Short Recent History of Pressure Cooker Bombs | TIME.com (http://swampland.time.com/2013/04/16/a-short-history-of-pressure-cooker-bombs/)

They can pry my spatula from my cold dead fingers.

I've got 2 propane smokers, a propane grill, a pressure cooker and we sell ball bearings. Am I going to be on a watch list?

And it continues... according to Steny hoyer the Boston bombing is proof that the sequester is bad (http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/hoyer-boston-attack-is-proof-if-proof-is)or something.

And it continues... according to Steny hoyer the Boston bombing is proof that the sequester is bad or something.

He was specifically asked that question:

Asked by a reporter whether Monday's attack makes the argument for addressing sequestration, Hoyer explained, "I think there are multiple reasons for ensuring that we invest in our security -- both domestic and international security. That we invest in the education of our children. That we invest in growing jobs in America. And don't pursue an irrational, across-the-board policy of cutting the highest priorities and the lowest priorities essentially the same percentage.... I think this is another proof of that -- if proof is needed, which I don't think frankly it is."

The he says:

Hoyer added, "I doubt that [sequestration's] having any impact presently --

So basically, had you read the actual article, he says the exact opposite of what you posted.

He was specifically asked that question:


The he says:


So basically, had you read the actual article, he says the exact opposite of what you posted.

He's talking out of both sides of his mouth.

He said the bombing was proof - "I think this is another proof" - that the sequester -"an irrational, across-the-board policy of cutting the highest priorities and the lowest priorities essentially the same percentage" was bad but that it wasn't "presently" having any impact. If you weren't so busy trying to discredit me you would know that.

I simply read the article and it totally contradicts your linking it to "the Boston bombing is proof that the sequester is bad".

I simply read the article and it totally contradicts your linking it to "the Boston bombing is proof that the sequester is bad".

You obviously can't understand plain English. The Atlantic offers the same interpretation.

House Democrats' Faustian Bargain on Boston and the Sequester (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/04/house-democrats-faustian-bargain-on-boston-and-the-sequester/275039/)

Steny Hoyer suggests that the attacks provides the latest proof that Congress needs to repeal the sequester. Has he thought this one through?

Politico (http://www.politico.com/story/2013/04/boston-marathon-bombing-congress-reacts-90136.html?hp=f1) sees the same thing.

Give it up dude.

Don't you see Boston as an excuse to increase spending on Homeland Security, obviously existing measures have failed

don't you see Boston as an excuse to increase spending on Homeland Security, obviously existing measures have failed

Yeah, maybe this time if they only buy 2 billion bullets we will be OK.

Yeah, maybe this time if they only buy 2 billion bullets we will be ok.

At least they canceled the bagpipes and spats.

It is obviously time to take a leaf out of the British page and install wall to wall CCTV, not only can you watch for bombers you will have footage of all the gun killings

I'm pretty sure Copley Square had sufficient video monitoring . It's just a matter of time. It is in a very historic district of Boston .It's the home of Trinity Church ;John Hancock Tower ,the Boston Public Library ,and is a short walk from Boston Commons.

No I meant the whole country

You do realize how big the USA really is?

Yep, just a little bigger than Australia and 15 times the population, you can see the boom coming, can't you? Led by spending on security inferstructure, come on, let's have a real war on terror, not that phoney offshore war

Pressure cookers should have a limited capacity, lets say one quart. Nobody needs more than one quart to cook their roast. We also need a national registry, how do we know that people are not selling these cookers at garage sales! We also need to ban pressure cookers with hand grips... those should only be used by the military and law enforcement. Nobody needs a pressure cooker to protect their home... if you hear burglars outside, just stick your double barreled toaster out the balcony door and shoot off a couple of slices.
We need for owners of cookers to have mental evaluations. It would not do for someone who cannot cook, to own a cooker. We need to ensure they are mentally fit to cook.

Hello again,

My right wing friends lament the leftward (downward) spiral the country is undergoing... However, from MY perspective, the right wing (downward) spiral is in FULL effect.

To wit: The LIBERAL issues of the day, like gun control and comprehensive immigration reform will go DOWN in flames.

What's leftward about a country that does that?

excon

People that hear voices in their head talking to them are convinced they are real too.

People that hear voices in their head talking to them are convinced they are real too.I know - religious people are wacko.

I know - religious people are wacko.

Not nice Karma and he was speaking of druggo's. You shouldn't malign something you don't participate in

I know - religious people are wacko.Most people that hear voices in their heads aren't religious... they are schizo or high on something they shouldn't be.

I know - religious people are wacko.

Especially those jihadists.

Hello again,

So, it's drug induced VOICES that are telling me that right wingers are pissed?? Is that your story? Okee doakee..

excon

Hello again,

Ok, my questions are too hard. Here's an easier one... I say the odds are 4 to 1 that the Boston Bomber was a right wing American nut and not a Jihadist.

Are you wingers HOPING it wasn't? You're not sure, are you?

excon

I'm not speculating because unlike you left wingers I don't froth at the mouth waiting for an opportunity to prove how nuts you are and denigrate you all as dangerous wackos. It was a terrorist attack and whoever it was needs to go down without using it as a political tool to hammer the other side.

Hello again, Steve:


I'm not speculating because unlike you left wingers I don't froth at the mouth Nahhh... If you thought it was a jihadist, you'd be frothing..

Excon

No sir, you're wrong. I may enjoy tweaking you libs but I have no interest in dividing this country, especially after a tragedy.

Hello again,

Ok, my questions are too hard. Here's an easier one... I say the odds are 4 to 1 that the Boston Bomber was a right wing American nut and not a Jihadist.

Are you wingers HOPING it wasn't? You're not sure, are you?

excon

Odds are it's a left wing loon... most of the previous ones have been. History has proven that to be the case.

Only ONE hasn't been that wasn't a Muslim.

THe Unibomber... THe Weather Underground... occupy Wallstreet... the loon that shot Gabby Giffords... William Ayers, Obamas buddy... etc... etc...

Hello again, Steve:

I have no interest in dividing this country, especially after a tragedy.I'm confused.. How does speculating on who the bomber is, divide the country? Seems to me, if it WAS a right winger, HE's dividing the country - not you or me.

And, no. You're NOT responsible if it was - just like the Muslim down the street isn't responsible if a jihadist did it.

Excon

The left has completely lost their marbles... they blamed the Gabby Gifford shooting on Sarah Palin and the right... even AFTER they had proof the guy was yet another left wing loon.

And the same bunch of deranged loons are blaming it on the right before anyone has even proven it wasn't another Towelhead Muslim...

Has anyone proven it wasn't Joe Biden? Where was he at that day? Maybe it was BArney Frank... he was in Boston that day and we all know that fool can't even control his own bowel movements.

Hello again, Steve:
I'm confused.. How does speculating on who the bomber is, divide the country? Seems to me, if it WAS a right winger, HE's dividing the country - not you or me.

And so is everyone playing the blame game.


And, no. You're NOT responsible if it was - just like the Muslim down the street isn't responsible if a jihadist did it.

Excon

Dude, I've been saying that sort of thing for years, you finally agree?

Hello again, smoothy:

I don't know WHY you open yourself up to stuff like this, but it works for me...

Tim McVeigh, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh) right winger, committed the DEADLIEST act of terrorism within the United States prior to the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks

McVeigh hoped to inspire a revolt against what he considered to be a tyrannical federal government. Sound familiar?

excon

OK I'll speculate...

Naser Jason Abdo, an Army private arrested in 2011 for plotting to blow up a restaurant full of GIs had 2 pressure cooker bombs . Also Faisal Shahzad had a pressure cooker bomb in the van he rented when he attempted the Times Square bombing .

So the last 2 times a pressure cooker bombing was attempted in the United States ;it was a jihadist.. So I think the odds are much greater that it was this time again...

I'll go into even greater speculation . Iran has been threatening to make attacks inside the US for months now. However ,it would be a bad idea for them to be conclusively tied directly to such an attack. So the type of device that has been employed rather frequently by AQ in their terror campaign in the ummah was the weapon of choice ,because the bombs “carry the hallmark of an organized terrorist group, like al-Qaeda.”
Saudi Terror Cell, Possibly Al Qaeda, Behind Boston Marathon Bombings (http://www.virtualjerusalem.com/news.php?Itemid=9654)

Hello again, smoothy:

I dunno WHY you open yourself up to stuff like this, but it works for me...

Tim McVeigh, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh) right winger, committed the DEADLIEST act of terrorism within the United States prior to the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks

McVeigh hoped to inspire a revolt against what he considered to be a tyrannical federal government. Sound familiar?

exconI know you are smarter than that excon... thats the only one you can pullup and that was 18 years ago when the left has been responsible for HOW many in the years since? How about ALL of them?

The left has completely lost their marbles....they blamed the Gabby Gifford shooting on Sarah Palin and the right.....even AFTER they had proof the guy was yet another left wing loon.

And the same bunch of deranged loons are blaming it on the right before anyone has even proven it wasn't another Towelhead Muslim.....

Has anyone proven it wasn't Joe Biden? Where was he at that day? Maybe it was BArney Frank...he was in Boston that day and we all know that fool can't even control his own bowel movements.

If it's a lefty bomber then in a decade or so ,that person will have a job teaching at Columbia U

Speculation, you have pissed a whole lot of people off, I'm surprised you aren't blaming Kim Jung Un-cool, after all he promised to attack america with small devices.

All right I agree it is probably a jihadist of some ilk, did you blow up a mosque or burn a koran sometime?

No ; Iran threatened us because we are the only ones standing in the way from them achieving their goal of an Iranian bomb. They don't care about their Korans and mosques. They are the ones that blow them up ;not us.

no ; Iran threatened us because we are the only ones standing in the way from them achieving their goal of an Iranian bomb. They don't care about their Korans and mosques. They are the ones that blow them up ;not us.

So you don't believe their religious leaders who say that a nuclear device is against their principles?

Hello clete:


did you blow up a mosque or burn a koran sometime?You presume they're NOT mad at us now, but if burned a Koran, THEN they would attack us...

In MY view, the reason they HAVEN'T attacked us is because we thwarted every attempt they've made so far - NOT because they're busy at the mall.

But, I DO agree. It's the prevailing though... You remember all those right wingers who thought we'd be attacked if we brought Kalid Sheik Mohammad to NY?? That was stupid too.

Excon

Hello clete:

You presume they're NOT mad at us now, but if burned a Koran, THEN they would attack us...

In MY view, the reason they HAVEN'T attacked us is because we thwarted every attempt they've made so far - NOT because they're busy at the mall.

But, I DO agree. It's the prevailing though... You remember all those right wingers who thought we'd be attacked if we brought Kalid Sheik Mohammad to NY??? That was stupid too.

excon

Ex you are a target of opportunity anytime, it just seems that there a only a few of these guys at any time, you were fortunate previously, this time they got through, but you only have to cross them once and they have an undieing hatred

Hello again, clete:

Couple things... If it was jihadists, they would have claimed responsibility for it by now.. They're NOT ashamed..

Secondly, these were crude, VERY crude, small bombs. The jihadists would have built a BIGGER one, and I think they would have aimed at a building..

But, WE'LL see. I HOPE I'm wrong... I don't want to believe that ANY American is capable of doing this.

excon

speculation, you have pissed a whole lot of people off, I'm surprised you arn't blaming Kim Jung Un-cool, afterall he promised to attack america with small devices.

Alright I agree it is probably a jihadist of some ilk, did you blow up a mosque or burn a koran sometime?

If he tried attacking American Women with his small device most of them would laugh at it.

Back to the gun control issue, only 4% of Americans think gun control is the biggest issue facing America. Any guesses on what is? Anything? Anything? Anything Obama is not running around the country addressing??

Few in U.S. See Guns, Immigration as Nation's Top Problems (http://www.gallup.com/poll/161813/few-guns-immigration-nation-top-problems.aspx)
The economy and jobs continue to be named as most important U.S. problems

Hello again, clete:

Couple things... If it was jihadists, they would have claimed responsibility for it by now.. They're NOT ashamed..

Secondly, these were crude, VERY crude, small bombs. The jihadists would have built a BIGGER one, and I think they would have aimed at a building..

But, WE'LL see. I HOPE I'm wrong... I don't wanna believe that ANY American is capable of doing this.

excon

Umm no... the nature of their attacks have clearly changed to lone wolf or small cell operations of jihadists who are more likely than not domestic recruits who watch jihadist video on the net. They do not always claim credit . They did not claim credit for Major Hasan even though his attack on Fort Hood was a jihadist lone wolf operation.

Edit... also the pressure cooker bomb is standard issue in the Middle East . Look it up.

They don't have to be jihadists as there are enough home grown hate sites and groups to trigger some loony to action.

Like Major Nidal Malik Hasan who killed 13... and the PTUS refuses to call a terrorist.. even though he was praising his pedophile god when he did it.

He was a sick nut no matter what the trigger was that pushed him over the edge.

He was a sick nut no matter what the trigger was that pushed him over the edge.

He was a Muslim with an agenda... nobody pushed him over the edge other than the Islam faith. Which you have to be mentally deficient to follow anyway.

Senate failed to get the 60 votes needed to vote on the Toomey Manchin Schumer bill.

Senate failed to get the 60 votes needed to vote on the Toomey Manchin Schumer bill.

Piers Morgan hit the hardest...

Piers Morgan is a "eunuch" individual... it's no wonder he suffers from such frustration he acts like a blabbering idiot.

Senate failed to get the 60 votes needed to vote on the Toomey Manchin Schumer bill.

We can't even have a vote? That's disgusting.

gee you would think with 90% approval that would be a slam dunk

gee you would think with 90% approval that would be a slam dunk
NRA money rules!

You really think the NRA has that much influence ? PULLLEEEEEEZZZZEEEEE !

you really think the NRA has that much influence ? PULLLEEEEEEZZZZEEEEE !
Yes, I do -- ask those who voted no why they did so.

You really have to ask who's running the country over there, sounds like a bad case of faceless men to me

Yes, I do -- ask those who voted no why they did so.

Personal greed. They want to be re-elected.

Personal greed. They want to be re-elected.
And the NRA lied.

And the NRA lied.

Where? Do you have a quote handy ?

ask those who voted no why they did so. OK ;why did those Senate Dems from "Red States " vote against cloture if 90% of the people were in favor of universal backround checks ? They were the Senators who made the difference.

Here are the names . It should be easy to defeat them at the polls with them voting against the 90%
Mark Begich (Alaska), Max Baucus (Mont.), Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.), Mark Pryor (Ark.), and Harry Reid (Nev.) (for procedural purposes so he could bring it up again).Reid is an interesting case. He can claim to the people of Nevada that he voted for their gun rights ;and then go back to DC and claim his vote was procedural . What a worm !

And the NRA lied.

NO they didn't... they were completely truthful, and factual.

NO they didn't...they were completely truthful, and factual.
NRA said that the expanded check system would lay the groundwork for a national registry of gun owners. The measure expressly forbids such a step, with a 15-year jail sentence for anyone who tries to do that.

Actually the measure only prohibits the AG from assembling a registry. But it's other agencies like HHS that are collecting gun ownership data as part of the Obamacare questionnaires that doctors are mandated to give patients.
David Kopel spells it out at Volokh Conspiracy blog .
The Volokh Conspiracy » The “Pro-Gun” Provisions of Manchin-Toomey are Actually a Bonanza of Gun Control (http://www.volokh.com/2013/04/15/the-pro-gun-provisions-of-manchin-toomey-are-actually-a-bonanza-of-gun-control/)

NRA said that the expanded check system would lay the groundwork for a national registry of gun owners. The measure expressly forbids such a step, with a 15-year jail sentence for anyone who tries to do that.

And you believe that? Obamacare was supposed to save everyone money and nobody would lose their current insurance and doctors... reality is its triple the highest estimate and climbing rapidly.. and most people are going to lose their current insurance and doctors.

Not to mention the lefties have actually said they want a complete registry so they know who has what so they can take them next like Hitlers brownshirts.

Obamacare hasn't started yet.

Not to mention the lefties have actually said they want a complete registry so they know who has what so they can take them next like Hitlers brownshirts.
Please cite your source.

Not to mention the lefties have actually said they want a complete registry so they know who has what so they can take them next like Hitlers brownshirts.

Paranoia, how long can a nation exist in a paranoid state before your worst nightmares become reality?

Obamacare hasn't started yet.And yet its already sucking the treasury dry.

And yet its already sucking the treasury dry.
And why? No reason for panic. Insurance companies, doctors, and hospitals only stand to make more money from Obamacare.

And why? No reason for panic. Insurance companies, doctors, and hospitals only stand to make more money from Obamacare.

And we know that means they pay more in tax adding to revenue, so obamacare must be good for the economy?

Obamacare hasn't started yet.

Yes parts of it have already begun to rear its ugly head.

Yes parts of it have already begun to rear its ugly head.

Before you know it we'll all have part time jobs.

Please cite your source.

Nearly every prominint democrat has flat out said it... pick one.

And why? No reason for panic. Insurance companies, doctors, and hospitals only stand to make more money from Obamacare.

Have you talked to any Doctors or Nurses? I know many that are going to shut down their offices rather than deal with the costs of Obamacare... which would mean they would be having to actually pay out of their pockets to remain open... because costs will far excede what they get paid for services. I know Only one that isn't worried... every other one expects to shut down... or get laid off as a result when it kicks in all the way.

Have you talked to any Doctors or Nurses? I know many that are going to shut down their offices rather than deal with the costs of Obamacare ...which would mean they would be having to actually pay out of their pockets to remain open....because costs will far excede what they get paid for services. I know Only one that isn't worried....every other one expects to shut down...or get laid off as a result when it kicks in all the way.

Sounds good we have a shortage of trained medical staff here and before I'm accused of being racist, we would like to get some who speak english, so send them our way

sounds good we have a shortage of trained medical staff here and before I'm accused of being racist, we would like to get some who speak english, so send them our way

Not sure many of them would want to make that move... hell, that's a major trip even for a vacation. (one of the reasons I've never been there yet). Moving a household full of stuff would be incredibly expensive not to mention a logistical nightmare since most doctors own their own houses and are established in many ways making moving very difficult.

I've moved back and forth to Europe twice from the USA... and that was a PITA even though at the time I was able to fit everything I owned in a 20 foot Shipping container. I'd need at least 3, 40 foot ones these days... without my vehicles.

But I understand your sympathy on the English speaking ones... we have plenty of Indian, and Pakistani doctors and dentists here... (Iranians too) At least most of the ones I've dealt with spoke really good english. My last two dentists have been Iranian expats...

Not sure many of them would want to make that move....hell, thats a major trip even for a vacation. Moving a household full of stuff would be incredible expensive not to mention a logistical nightmare.

I've moved back and forth to Europe twice from the USA....and that was a PITA even though at the time I was able to fit everything I owned in a 20 foot Shipping container. I'd need at least 3, 40 foot ones these days...without my vehicles.

But I understand your sympathy on the English speaking ones...we have plenty of Indian, and Pakistani doctors and dentists here... (Iranians too) At least most of the ones I've dealt with spoke really good english. My last two dentists have been Iranian expats....

If things are so bad over there they could sell up and buy new here, the appliances won't work here anyway without a transformer and we have good quality furniture and cars too, we have those too these days, what we don't have is guns so I expect you wouldn't want to come

You must be getting the ones who speak english what we get are the ones who mumble something unintelligable

If things are so bad over there they could sell up and buy new here, the appliances won't work here anyway without a transformer and we have good quality furniture and cars too, we have those too these days, what we don't have is guns so I expect you wouldn't want to come

You must be getting the ones who speak english what we get are the ones who mumble something unintelligable

Well,since I live in a major Metropolitan area... I suspect many of the ones with lesser English skills end up in the more rural areas... from what I've heard we have our share of ones that don't speak English all that well... but I haven't encountered them myself. That I remember anyway. But then I have a knack for understanding people that aren't exactly fluent in English... that other people flat out can't understand.

Most of the issues I've seen with Indians (personally)... isn't their language skills... its their people skills. Some of them define the word arrogant. The ones I know are either incredibly friendly or incredibly arrogant... none in the middle.

Appliances in the USA... (washers, driers, Diswashers stoves and cabinets) usually stay with the house when you sell it, or rent it out... unlike most of the rest of the world.

Dumping everything at a steep loss to buy everything new... would be a pretty big expense... for people that aren't renters. Yes I know Australia isn't a third world country.

Though I'm not familiar with medical liscensing requirements... and what might be involved there.

Source... how about Dem Senator Max Baucus . He calls Obamacare a train wreck... and he voted for it .

Obamacare Is A 'Huge Train Wreck': Democrat Senator (http://www.inquisitr.com/623191/obamacare-is-a-huge-train-wreck-democrat-senator/)

Sen. Chris Murphy of Connecticut has Republicans down...


In an appearance on The Rachel Maddow Show, the Democratic senator told Maddow that Republicans have “made it clear that they are just kind of gun-control Darwinists at this point.” ”They just think they we should give a whole bunch of guns to the good guys and to the bad guys, and let them shoot it out, and hope that the good guys win,” he said. “That’s their agenda.”

Yeah that's it exactly. I'm sure idiotic things like that are exactly what Dems need to reverse Obama's major fail on gun control.

Relax its just the beginning. I guess you are too young to remember how long it took for a gun control bill to pass the last time.

It also shows you don't have to be very intelligent to run for office and win as a Democrat, in blue states. I bet he has trouble tieing his own shoes.

Relax its just the beginning. I guess you are too young to remember how long it took for a gun control bill to pass the last time.

So you really want another shooting war on US soil then... because if they try to disarm the people... its going to happen... as well it should.

So you really want another shooting war on US soil then...because if they try to disarm the people...its going to happen...as well it should.
No one wants to disarm anyone who is responsible and law abiding.

Hello smoothy:


.. because if they try to disarm the people... its going to happen... as well it should.

Relax its just the beginning. I guess you are too young to remember how long it took for a gun control bill to pass the last time.

If Zero wants to keep blathering about something that several of your Dems don't want to deal with again on an issue that 96 percent of the country thinks ain't so important, go for it.

Hello smoothy:

Think I'm kidding... anyone that wants to suspend the bill of rights... deserves getting shot.

Hello again, smoothy:


Think I'm kidding... anyone that wants to suspend the bill of rights... deserves getting shot.I'm a supporter of the Bill of Rights.. If someone wants to suspend them, I'm right WITH you...

However, a background check that would stop a person like ME from getting guns, is NOT a suspension of the Bill of Rights.. I don't care WHAT your latest email says.

Actually, NOT doing that is VERY, VERY criminal friendly.. I didn't know you cared so much for FELONS.

Excon

Hello again, smoothy:

I'm a supporter of the Bill of Rights.. If someone wants to suspend them, I'm right WITH you...

However, a background check that would stop a person like ME from getting guns, is NOT a suspension of the Bill of Rights.. I don't care WHAT your latest email says.

Actually, NOT doing that is VERY, VERY criminal friendly.. I didn't know you cared so much for FELONS.

excon

Except that isn't what its all about. Its all about a backdoor gun registry, the only reason for a gun registry is so they know who has what so their jackbooted thugs can start taking them by force.

Hello again, smoothy:


Its all about a backdoor gun registry,That IS what the emails are telling you, isn't it? It's just not so (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/apr/16/Arizona-Citizens-Defense-League/gun-rights-group-says-senate-bill-proposes-univers/).

Politifact says,
An email circulated to Arizona residents claims a bill before the Senate "is proposing the universal registration of all firearms and their owners." The bill expands background checks to most gun transfers. But federal rules forbid the government from keeping a record of successful background checks for more than a day. The ACLU argues it's possible the bill creates a new type of record for some sales that may not be subject to the ban, but that's not the same thing as "universal registration of all firearms and their owners." We rate the claim False.

Excon

There is also this --

snopes.com: Handgun Safety and Registration Act (http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/taxreturns.asp)

Yeah, I know you guys hate snopes.

No it doesn't explicitly create a universal gun registry but even the ACLU guy acknowledges a loophole that leaves the door open.

"I don't think it's a crazy idea to say that if the records exist, there would be a push to use them for other things," Calabrese said.

I find a lot more truth to that than your "war on women."

There is also this --

snopes.com: Handgun Safety and Registration Act (http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/taxreturns.asp)

Yeah, I know you guys hate snopes.



That was something from 4 years ago. A little late now.

That was something from 4 years ago. Alittle late now.
Refer to excon's post.

(I'm in a state of emergency with news helicopters swarming over my house, so forgive my lack of timeliness.)

Refer to excon's post.

(I'm in a state of emergency with news helicopters swarming over my house, so forgive my lack of timeliness.)

For 4 years they've been swarming over your house?

Hello again,

If the background check that failed is SOOO dangerous, why isn't the CURRENT background check? You probably went through it yourself. If ONE is tyranny, why isn't the other?

excon

So we already have background checks, got it.

Hello again,

If the background check that failed is SOOO dangerous, why isn't the CURRENT background check? You probably went through it yourself. If ONE is tyranny, why isn't the other?

excon

As you pointed out in what you posted earlier. As of right now the records aren't collected by the federal government and must be destroyed. In that bill discussed in the article it opens a new door that may allow it to be kept.

Now before you start ranting on paranoia Im going to say this. 3 times I watched as a government entity was given certain powers and then took those to a whole different level. 2 of them are still in affect and one was stricken down by the high courts.

So now we stand at a nationwide junction. We need to tread lightly and make sure we cover the bases to get anything passed. All they really need to do is put in the simplist language and it would be over. But nah those politicians need a job and so do all their lawyer friends. So its not going to happen the easy way.

Legislate in haste, repent at leisure...

So we already have background checks, got it.
Not for private sales at gun shows.

For 4 years they've been swarming over your house?
No, we're in a horrible flood situation.

Not for private sales at gun shows.

You do know that the "gun show loophole" is a total myth right?

It doesn't exist except in the minds of politicians trying to appease others.

Hello again, smoothy:

That IS what the emails are telling you, isn't it? It's just not so (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/apr/16/Arizona-Citizens-Defense-League/gun-rights-group-says-senate-bill-proposes-univers/).

Politifact says, [/B]

excon

You lefties are real simpletons if you think we are dumb enough to believe your crap its not a back door anything... because YOUR lefty buddies have already said this is their goal.

And its been how your communist buddies have operated for decades. In fact it's a tactic Sol Alinsky has in his rules for radicals.



You may not have long enough memories to remember it... but the rest of us do.

Not for private sales at gun shows.

You mean not for private sales.

You mean not for private sales.

How come you never posted on the AMHD gun board ?

Firearms - Ask Me Help Desk (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/firearms/)

How come you never posted on the AMHD gun board ?

Firearms - Ask Me Help Desk (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/firearms/)

I don't know, guess I need to get out more.

What if the FFL is not on the up, and up or can slither through the loopholes? Why would you leave a straw man with that same ability? What's to stop a citizen with no record from getting a gun at a gun show, and selling it to a felon?

Documents: Woman who sold Evan Ebel gun should've known he was felon - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22890402/tom-clements-update-court-appearance-woman-accused-buying)


So we already have background checks, got it.

Obviously they are inadequate and the criminals have figured out how to get around them. Why don't you want to close that loophole they drive a tank through?

You can't stop people from acting illegally all you can do is catch them hopefully before they kill or maim someone

What if the FFL is not on the up, and up or can slither thru the loopholes? Why would you leave a straw man with that same ability? What's to stop a citizen with no record from getting a gun at a gun show, and selling it to a felon?

Documents: Woman who sold Evan Ebel gun should've known he was felon - The Denver Post (http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_22890402/tom-clements-update-court-appearance-woman-accused-buying)



Obviously they are inadequate and the criminals have figured out how to get around them. Why don't you want to close that loophole they drive a tank thru?


Even with the back ground check they can still sell the gun. It is already a crime to do so. From the article :

Vigil has been charged with unlawful purchase of a firearm, a Class 4 felony.


So how is the back ground check going to help? This is a clear case of someone knowingly aiding and abedding. Nothing will stop that.

As she has been charged with a felony if she is convicted she won't be doing it again ;)

The bombing suspects obviously aren't home grown right-wingers. Maybe this thing is about over though, pray for no more mayhem.

1 Boston Marathon bombing suspect dead, another on the run, authorities say | Fox News (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/04/19/gunshots-reported-on-mit-campus/)

The bombing suspects obviously aren't home grown right-wingers.What leads you to believe that?

What leads you to believe that?

Well the fact of their names and the fact they immigrated here year ago... is a pretty good indication.

Its all over the news..

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/19/boston-bombers-are-brothers-overseas-police-name-o/

I've read a lot of reports, none of them mention their political leanings or motivations. And you can't go by names since the US is a melting pot.

I've read a lot of reports, none of them mention their political leanings or motivations. And you can't go by names since the US is a melting pot.

Did you bother reading the story... they weren't born here... they weren't citizerns here... and they most certainly weren't White men much less Right wingers.

Their pictures are enough proof of that. They were Islamic Terrorists... and even the left wing media are reporting that.

they most certainly weren't White menThey look white to me. You need to adjust the controls on your monitor LOL.