Hello:

Now, I'm no arithmetician, but if we could save several BILLION $$'s a year by nationalizing the delivery of medicine, we could SAVE Medicare, SS AND not have to cut the military.

What's wrong with that? Oh, yeah... It's socialized medicine... But the word doesn't frighten me. Especially when the future of our country is at stake.

excon

if we could save several BILLION $$'s a year


To sleep, perchance to Dream; Aye, there's the rub,

You are starting to get the picture Ex, next those money grubbing pharma companies

Hello again, tom:

I'm just saying what Romney said... When he was in Israel, he COMPLIMENTED them (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/07/30/604111/romney-individual-mandate-israel/) on their system...


“Do you realize what health care spending is as a percentage of the G.D.P. in Israel? Eight percent,” he said. “You spend eight percent of G.D.P. on health care. You're a pretty healthy nation. We spend 18 percent of our G.D.P. on health care, 10 percentage points more. That gap, that 10 percent cost, compare that with the size of our military — our military which is 4 percent, 4 percent. Our gap with Israel is 10 points of G.D.P. We have to find ways — not just to provide health care to more people, but to find ways to fund and manage our health care costs.”

You're the arithmetician... How much IS 10% of our GDP? I'm just guessing, but I'll bet it's enough to fund Medicare forever, and buy a few aircraft carriers... Oh, that's right. We won't NEED Medicare, and we'll STILL save 10%... Boy, oh boy, we'll be SWIMMING in cash, even AFTER we buy those carriers.

What?? Romney is the businessman... Certainly he KNOWS what he's talking about.

Excon

Yeah well the Obamacare cost curve certainly got bent. Higher and higher upward. We're certainly going to save money on healthcare, keep our doctors and insurance plans... oh wait, no we aren't. But Sandra Fluke will get her free BC by golly. I'd like to thank you for sacrificing my healthcare so she can have worry-free casual sex.

I'd like to thank you for sacrificing my healthcare so she can have worry-free casual sex.Hello again, Steve:

Well, she's a slut... What about saving the nation, Steve? Don't you believe Romney's numbers?? Even if you LIKE your private doctor, it's KILLING us. Don't you CARE about this country?

excon

It is not really the medicine but it is the law suits and malpractice insurance and the sue crazy nation.

I have the example, we just bought Atena health insurance for my wife and son, ( mine is now furnished free where I work) Our policy, private room, 100 percent coverage after 1000 dollar deductable. It costs me 225 dollars a month. Only catch, it is good in every nation of the world, except the US. If I wanted US coverage included the same policy would be 700 or so dollars. It is because if you go in with a sneeze, they will do MRI, blood test, and send your nose fluids to be tested, so they don't miss anything. In other places they say, you have a cold, drink liquids and rest.

Main difference, other places if the doctor is wrong, too bad, doctor was wrong, we are sorry, in the US, it is how many millions can I sue for.

It is not really the medicine but it is the law suits and malpractice insurance and the sue crazy nation. Bingo ! That alone completely distorts providers costs that get passed on through the system.

It is not really the medicine but it is the law suits and malpractice insurance and the sue crazy nation.Hello Padre:

It's ALL of it. But, I'd have no problem with eliminating malpractice lawsuits when universal coverage is instituted...

Look... I don't want to talk about the PHILOSOPHY of private vs socialized medicine... We've been there. In fact, philosophically, I'm OPPOSED to it. However, FINANCIALLY I'm in favor of it. I am WILLING to put my philosophy aside in order to SAVE my country... What about YOU?

Let's talk about NUMBERS and not ideology. This wasn't addressed at you, Padre. I'm just using your post.. So, how much IS 10% of our GDP??

excon

Hello again, Steve:

Well, she's a slut... What about saving the nation, Steve? Don't you believe Romney's numbers??? Even if you LIKE your private doctor, it's KILLING us. Don't you CARE about this country?

excon

You aren't paying for my healthcare. Yet.

You aren't paying for my healthcare. Yet.Hello again, Steve:

So, you DON'T believe Romney's numbers... Interestingly, these are the ONLY numbers from him that I DO believe.

excon

Romney's greatest weaknesses are the self inflicted ones .

Hello again, Steve:

So, you DON'T believe Romney's numbers... Interestingly, these are the ONLY numbers from him that I DO believe.

excon

You said me liking my doctor was "killing us" and all I said was you aren't paying for my healthcare - yet. In other words, wouldn't it be nice if everyone that could do so would take care of themselves like I do instead of sucking the taxpayers dry? Gee, I wonder how much money that would free up?

wouldn't it be nice if everyone that could do so would take care of themselves like I do instead of sucking the taxpayers dry?Hello again, Steve:

So, you don't CARE what the numbers are, you ain't going to budge.. And, you don't CARE whether the country can afford it, you ain't going to budge..

How patriotic is that?

excon

Let the people give up their cell phones and Starbucks and X-boxes... so they can pay for their own insurance like the rest of us have had to do.

Its called making sacrifices...

Hello again,

So, since nobody from YOUR side wants to know the numbers, I looked (http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=gdp+us)... We have a $15 TRILLION GDP. 10% of that is $1.5 TRILLION.

Couldn't we buy a few aircraft carriers with that? Couldn't we fund SS forever? I don't know. They're just numbers. Do they MEAN anything?

excon

Hello again, Steve:

So, you don't CARE what the numbers are, you ain't gonna budge.. And, you don't CARE whether the country can afford it, you ain't gonna budge..

How patriotic is that?

excon

No sir I'm not going to budge, I'd rather you didn't have to pay for my healthcare because I'm a swell guy.

Hello again,

So, since nobody from YOUR side wants to know the numbers, I looked (http://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=ny_gdp_mktp_cd&idim=country:USA&dl=en&hl=en&q=gdp+us)... We have a $15 TRILLION GDP. 10% of that is $1.5 TRILLION.

Couldn't we buy a few aircraft carriers with that? Couldn't we fund SS forever? I dunno. They're just numbers. Do they MEAN anything??

excon

We shouldn't have to be worrying about funding SSI now... if past administrations (yes DEMOCRATS TOO) had not spent it on other things.

We shouldn't have to be worrying about funding SSI now.....if past administrations (yes DEMOCRATS TOO) had not spent it on other things.Hello again, smoothy:

That was yesterday... We have a crisis TODAY. I'm just looking for ways to solve it. I'm a fixer, not a complainer.

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

That was yesterday... We have a crisis TODAY. I'm just looking for ways to solve it. I'm a fixer, not a complainer.

exconThen get rid of Obama... he's a spender and not a fixer.

Then get rid of Obama...he's a spender and not a fixer.Hello again,

So, NOBODY wants to talk about SOLVING our money crisis?? I thought you wingers were ALL about money. I mean, it's only $1.5 TRILLION.

excon

Hello again,

So, NOBODY wants to talk about SOLVING our money crisis??? I thought you wingers were ALL about money. I mean, it's only $1.5 TRILLION.

excon

The guy at the wheel that took a 8.3 trillion deficit and turned it into a 16 trillion dollar deficit in les than 4 years ain't the guy that's going to be fixing ANYTHING.

Everyone that's had basic finances knows you can't spend your way out of a debt.

THere is an old addage that applies here... if you find yourself in a deep hole you can't climb out of... put the shovel down and STOP DIGGING.

Hello again, smoothy:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not talking about Obama..

It's just you and me here. smoothy. I made a suggestion about how to FIX our terrible economic situation. I KNOW MY fix will never happen. It's TOO simple. But, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about what would actually WORK. Wouldn't you like to engage me in that conversation?

Or, would you rather badmouth Obama?

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not talking about Obama..

It's just you and me here. smoothy. I made a suggestion about how to FIX our terrible economic situation. I KNOW MY fix will never happen. It's TOO simple. But, I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about what would actually WORK. Wouldn't you like to engage me in that conversation??

Or, would you rather badmouth Obama?

excon

There is no sense restocking the shelves in the China Shop as long as the Bull is still in it breaking everything.

You also can't pay off your credit card bills as long as your wife is running out buying everything under the sun.

Its part and parcel to each other... get rid of the source of the problem to you can clean up the mess.

In other words... moping the floor up is a waste of time until you fix the busted water pipe first.

This mess started with Al Gore and HMO's and its been going downhill ever since... now with Obama care its about to fall off the cliff.

Typical attitude of certain groups that if I can't have this free you shouldn't be able to have it at all mindset.

Most of the uninsured could afford insurance if they gave up a lot of things they don't NEED to have... I did it when I first got out of college and for years after that... I did without a lot of things to make sure I had medical coverage...

But today young people think they are ENTITLED to anything they want and get indignant if anyone suggests they make sacrifices to pay for it.

I've seen Socialized medicine up close for years... my wife grew up in Europe with socialized medicine and she would be the first to tell you how clueless people that want it are... and how much is sucks.

and how much is sucks.Hello again, smoothy:

One of the problems we have, is that NOBODY wants to talk about sacrifice.. EVERYBODY says, we can KEEP the status quo, it's the OTHER guys ox that needs to be gored.

But, the fact is, the way we're running things is NOT sustainable. (Boy, I sound like a Republican, don't I?) So, it's a matter of WHAT we cut, not a matter of WHETHER we cut...

I KNOW socialized medicine sucks.. But, we're talking about $1.5 TRILLION dollars here. Everybody get's health care, and we have loads of cash left over to buy several aircraft carriers... Yeah, your doctor will work for the state, and you might have to wait in line..

It's for the good of the country. It's REAL patriotic to sacrifice for your country... But, no, huh? You want the OTHER guy's ax to be gored... Screw the old people, let's end Medicare.

Like I said, I'm looking for SOLUTIONS and all I hear from you guys is how we CAN'T do that... I thought you right wingers had a can do attitude. No, huh?

excon

Hello:

Now, I'm no arithmetician, but if we could save several BILLION $$'s a year by nationalizing the delivery of medicine, we could SAVE Medicare, SS AND not have to cut the military.

What's wrong with that? Oh, yeah... It's socialized medicine... But the word doesn't frighten me. Especially when the future of our country is at stake.

excon



Hi Ex,


Depends on what you mean by nationalizing the delivery of medicine to save medicare. Do you mean to reduce the role of private insurance companies in medicare? Perhaps reducing the role of private insurance companies in general?

Tut

Perhaps ex is thinking of a single payer system which means uniform enforcement of the rules

perhaps ex is thinking of a single payer system which means uniform enforcement of the rulesHello TUT & clete:

Yup. Think of those beautiful aircraft carriers we could buy with the leftover cash.

excon

Like I said, I'm looking for SOLUTIONS and all I hear from you guys is how we CAN'T do that... I thought you right wingers had a can do attitude. No, huh?

excon

Then why not allow a 2 tiered system? The first layer covered by the government and the other part can be carried by private insurance? They have that system in Germany. Also its not illegal to pay your own way.

That way if you don't want to wait inline or you wish to have premium healthcare you can avail yourself to the access of it though a private plan.

Or is that the creation of yet another class argument to be taken on?

Then why not allow a 2 tiered system? The first layer covered by the government and the other part can be carried by private insurance? They have that system in Germany. Also its not illegal to pay your own way.

That way if you dont want to wait inline or you wish to have premium healthcare you can avail yourself to the access of it though a private plan.

Or is that the creation of yet another class argument to be taken on?
That's how I understand Obamacare. President Obama has said if someone has private health insurance or insurance through a workplace and is happy with it, no problem. Those with no insurance will be able to buy insurance through Obamacare.

perhaps ex is thinking of a single payer system which means uniform enforcement of the rules

That's a glorified socialized system... which sucks.

Not really it works well where I live, independent medical practitioners, public hospitals, private hospitals, private health insurance and a government enforced contribution of the uninsured. The medical practitioners can either be in the system and accept the regulated payment, or set their own fee and work out the impacts with their patient. The patient receives the refund of the regulated fee and the inconveniece of dealing with the insurers. Costs are contained because the patient has some guide as to what is a reasonable fee. The government has oversight of medical billing and so can identify over servicing but I have never heard of anyone complaining of being refused a refund or have a procedure disputed

Thats a glorified socialized system.....which sucks.


Well,my wife grew up in Australia with socialized medicine and she would be the first to tell you how clueless people that don't want it are.


Tut

Well,my wife grew up in Australia with socialized medicine and she would be the first to tell you how clueless people that don't want it are.

Tut

Well Tut we have tried to tell them, but there seems to be a block there, some sort of fear factor, no doubt fueled by the health insurance industry. I remember when we first got the system, took a little adjusting and the doctors wanted out after a while, weren't making the big bucks, I guess, but the specialists went their own way and the GPs were either in or out. But the test is in the costs. Our health care costs are much lower than theirs and we have a longer life expectancy so something is working

That's how I understand Obamacare. President Obama has said if someone has private health insurance or insurance through a workplace and is happy with it, no problem. Those with no insurance will be able to buy insurance through Obamacare.
Forget the effect of Obamacare in driving up premiums and the out he gave employers where many will determine it's cheaper to pay a fine... ooops I mean tax... and let their employees go into the government plan...

The Dems have made no secret that Obamacare is a sinister 1st step towards their goal of government central single payer takeover of health care in this country. We already see in it's initial stages where it shoves options on people with moral objections... so why shouldn't we believe our worse "fears " won't be codified into law now that the barn door has been opened .

Our health care costs are much lower than theirs and we have a longer life expectancy so something is workingHello again,

I thought $1.5 TRILLION would get their right wing attention, too. But, nahhh... They don't CARE that it'll DESTROY America... I wonder why they hate it here.

excon

It's bogus math ;and the fact that Romney says that the system works in a nation less than the size and population of NJ doesn't impress me.

it's bogus math Hello tom:

Speaking from a businessman's point of view, if a system works on micro level, it can work on the macro level. But, you guys ain't interested.. You want your Maypo and you're going to cry and snivel unless you get it.. You don't CARE that the future of the country is at stake. I don't think that's a very patriotic position...

excon

it's bogus math ;and the fact that Romney says that the system works in a nation less than the size and population of NJ doesn't impress me.


Hi Tom,

What nation might that be?



Tut

That's how I understand Obamacare. President Obama has said if someone has private health insurance or insurance through a workplace and is happy with it, no problem. Those with no insurance will be able to buy insurance through Obamacare.

That is not what I had said. I had said that government would cover the first level of healthcare (universal) and if you want premium service or can afford to pay cash you can. Premium services to be provided by private insurance.


Under Obamacare none of that is possible. It is designed to get people away from private insurance and allow the government to make decisions for you.

Hey Tom I thought you were infavour of a flat tax, you can't get any flatter than 1.5% to provide health care for everyone. You pay and when you have a bill you get a refund or you pay nothing. Best part, from your perspective, everyone pays and no loss of benefit if you are unemployed.

Hi Tom,

What nation might that be?



Tut

Romney was speaking of Israel when he made the comparison .

So there is more than one example, great, maybe someone will listen or is it a case of not made here?