As some of you may be aware I am currently awaiting my OWI hearing. I am alos in the military. I have recently talked with my Plt. Sgt who gave me the heads up that AA will most likely be aprt of my military punishment under the UCMJ.

My question is this. Where I live, AA is geared towards religion and the 12 steps being about God helping us stay sober, blah blah blah. I am Agnostic and do not want to participate in something like this if it will be of religious intent.

Is there an alternative to AA? I want to present an alternative to my Plt.Sgt and see if that will be accepted.

As some of you may be aware I am currently awaiting my OWI hearing. I am alos in the military. I have recently talked with my Plt. Sgt who gave me the heads up that AA will most likely be aprt of my military punishment under the UCMJ.

My question is this. Where I live, AA is geared towards religion and the 12 steps being about God helping us stay sober, blah blah blah. I am Agnostic and do not want to participate in something like this if it will be of religious intent.

Is there an alternative to AA? I want to present an alternative to my Plt.Sgt and see if that will be accepted.



Yes, all AA chapters are "God/religion" driven. I've seen people in my local Courts being given two options - AA or jail.

I am not aware of any Court-recognized alternatives.

AA isn't just about God - it's also about family, morals and responsibility.

If blah, blah, blah is not your style, call AA and ask them for any alternatives. Maybe one-on-one counselling would be acceptable to both the Military and the Court.

I have known people that have gone to AA. It's really not an "in-your-face" approach as far as religion goes. I really can't imagine going there would affect you negatively.

I appreciate both of your responses. I really do!

AA isn't really about God, but about believing in a higher power. Whether that higher power to you is the Flying Spaghetti Monster, God, or that oak tree in your back yard, it doesn't matter to them.

Hello Rick:

The only thing religious about it is the serenity prayer. I'm an atheist, but I LOVE that payer...

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference..

Beyond that, it's about drinking - NOT religion... However, each meeting might have a different slant.. If you don't like one, there's another one around the corner...

In my view, the 12 step program of AA is one of the BEST ways to control one's addiction - EVEN if you don't buy all the schtick..

excon

My bil has been in AA for years and considers himself his Higher Power.

AA isn't really about God, but about believing in a higher power. Whether that higher power to you is the Flying Spaghetti Monster, God, or that oak tree in your back yard, it doesn't matter to them.

Not sure if the steps vary by location but these are it for my local AA branch.
I see a lot of God in there...

THE TWELVE STEPS
1. We admitted we were
Powerless over alcohol – that
Our lives had become
Unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power
Greater than ourselves could
Restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our
Will and our lives over to the
Care of God as we understood
Him.

4. Made a searching and
Fearless moral inventory of
Ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to
Ourselves, and to another
Human being the exact nature
Of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have
God remove all these defects of
Character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove
Our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we
Had harmed, and became
Willing to make amends to them
All.

9. Made direct amends to such
People wherever possible,
Except when to do so would
Injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal
Inventory and when we were
Wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and
Meditation to improve our
Conscious contact with God as
We understood Him, praying
Only for the knowledge of His
Will for us and the power to
Carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual
Awakening as the result of
These steps, we tried to carry
This message to alcoholics, and
To practice these

I understand where you are coming from, but the use of the word "God" is universal. Many people do indeed believe in God, yet many do not. It's a term that many people can relate to.

Just because you are agnostic shouldn't preclude you from attending. I know of several Jewish people who attend, as well as atheists.

Hello again, Rick:

Let me say again. I'm an atheist... If it was about God, I WOULDN'T be promoting it.

excon

Thanks for the insight. I have noticed that there are a ton of meetings each week and it looks like some are geared toward religion others toward coffee and chit chat. So maybe this won't be a bad thing. Even if I do not believe I am an acoholic (I know, I know) I think this will be good for me in more ways than just an alcohol standpoint.

Go to an open meeting to check it out.

No meetings are geared toward religion.

Most are geared toward coffee and chit chat... and smokes!

I understand where you are coming from, but the use of the word "God" is universal. Many people do indeed believe in God, yet many do not. It's a term that many people can relate to.

Just because you are agnostic shouldn't preclude you from attending. I know of several Jewish people who attend, as well as atheists.


Jews believe in God -

Jews believe in God -

Yes, they do. I was just trying to make a point that AA is for everyone no matter their beliefs.

...and smokes!

Have not smoked in 9 days :D. After the OWI, I got serious about changing a few things in my life. One of which was my habit of smoking. I decided, I wanted to change and so I did. For how long? We shall see. But I feel good right now...

Thanks for the insight. I have noticed that there are a ton of meetings each week and it looks like some are geared toward religion others toward coffee and chit chat. So maybe this won't be a bad thing. Even if I do not believe I am an acoholic (I know, I know) I think this will be good for me in more ways than just an alcohol standpoint.

Here is a program that should be acceptable to a government body as it is sanctioned by all of the requisite government agencies:

This group emphasizes that it is non-12-Step, and is recognized by American Academy of Family Physicians, as well as the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA)* and the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)*. (agencies of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), a component of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

SMART Recovery (http://www.smartrecovery.org/).

No other program has the accessibility of AA. As you note, meetings everywhere. If your only reluctance is the religious character that is probably a non-starter.

AA also has a wide variety of meeting types, discussion, step meetings, mixed male and female, big book meetings, lecture and on down the line. If you don't like the social mix at one you can find one more to your liking in another area.

The accessibility and flexibility is very important to someone mandated to attendance.

At any rate there is another alternative to AA that should meet your requirements.

Here is a program that should be acceptable to a government body as it is sanctioned by all of the requisite government agencies:

This group emphasizes that it is non-12-Step, and is recognized by American Academy of Family Physicians, as well as the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA)* and the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)*. (agencies of the National Institutes of Health (NIH), a component of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

SMART Recovery (http://www.smartrecovery.org/).

No other program has the accessibility of AA. As you note, meetings everywhere. If your only reluctance is the religious character that is probably a non-starter.

AA also has a wide variety of meeting types, discussion, step meetings, mixed male and female, big book meetings, lecture and on down the line. If you don't like the social mix at one you can find one more to your liking in another area.

The accessibility and flexibility is very important to someone mandated to attendance.

At any rate there is another alternative to AA that should meet your requirements.

Thank You. I have decided that with the wide array of meetings in my area and the different environments/topics etc... I can find one I want to attend.

Thank You. I have decided that with the wide array of meetings in my area and the different environments/topics etc... I can find one I want to attend.


It seems to me - and we all know where I come from on this topic - that AA (or something similiar) based on one arrest is harsh. Maybe it's just me - but I'm surprised that the Marines are thinking in this direction.

The Court cuts people slack!

I did ask today and in my area the Court (not the Marines, of course) will agree to personal counselling three times -

Yea. I guess my Company is going to crack down on me and set an example. I am the firs to break our new 1-1-3 rule that our Battallion signed a few months ago.

I have no problem with any punishment I get. I deserve it. I just didn't want to be forced into religion. By reading yours and others responses, I think I jumped the gun on AA a little and am more than willing to give it a shot.

From what I've read, AA can be useful in more areas than just alcohol. I'm never too high N mighty to take a second look at my life. It should be interesting.

Yes, all AA chapters are "God/religion" driven. I've seen people in my local Courts being given two options - AA or jail.

I am not aware of any Court-recognized alternatives.

AA isn't just about God - it's also about family, morals and responsibility.

If blah, blah, blah is not your style, call AA and ask them for any alternatives. Maybe one-on-one counselling would be acceptable to both the Military and the Court.

AA cannot be mandated by the courts in your country. It is considered a breach of your religious freedoms (forcing a religion down your throat). Maybe they can get away with it in the military. The two largest non-religious groups in the states are SOS (Secular Organization for Sobriety) and RR (Rational Recovery) . If you don't believe in Mr. Magican in the sky who will save you then AA may be entirely counter productive to you. Anyway, my sense is that you are not really really interested in quiting for the rest of your life, only for a while to get out of the mess you are in. In which case no program is going to be worth much.

AA cannot be mandated by the courts in your country. It is considered a breach of your religious freedoms (forcing a religion down your throat). Maybe they can get away with it in the military. The two largest non-religious groups in the states are SOS (Secular Organization for Sobriety) and RR (Rational Recovery) . If you dont believe in Mr. Magican in the sky who will save you then AA may be entirely counter productive to you. Anyways, my sense is that you are not really really interested in quiting for the rest of your life, only for a while to get out of the mess you are in. In which case no program is going to be worth much.

Notwithstanding, AA is a regular and customary requirement of drug and other courts in the US. Recent figures from AA Central Office indicate that fully 1/3 of AA membership is now comprised of court mandated attendees.

Fair enough. I know that when forced memebership in AA has been challenged in the States, the higher courts have deemed AA to be a religion and therefor the accused could not be forced to attend. Sad state of affairs if the courts are still forcing people to go to AA. It's bad for AA, and bad for the person who is forced to go. "AA is not for those who need it, it is for those who want it."

Fair enough. I know that when forced memebership in AA has been challenged in the States, the higher courts have deemed AA to be a religion and therefor the accused could not be forced to attend. Sad state of affairs if the courts are still forcing people to go to AA. It's bad for AA, and bad for the person who is forced to go. "AA is not for those who need it, it is for those who want it."

Agreed. Dr Bob went to great lengths in researching the formation and operation of previous self-help support groups dating back to the Washingtonians of the 1840s prior to structuring AA. The fundamental design of the organization seems ill-suited to mandated attendance nor was such use contemplated by the founders.

Nonetheless, the reality is that in recent years AA has increasingly aligned with medical based treatment groups and then court programs. I was very surprised at the proportion of membership now attributed to court referral. History will pronounce the benefit or detriment of the practice but I should imagine Dr. Bob and Bill W would not have sanctioned the movement.

However, the benefit one derives from AA regardless of how introduced remains largely one of personal choice and perceived benefit. Take it or leave it. It's up to the individual. To some, even most, it's an encumbrance, an imposition and sentence. To a few it is a "God-send", so to speak.

Fair enough. I know that when forced memebership in AA has been challenged in the States, the higher courts have deemed AA to be a religion and therefor the accused could not be forced to attend. Sad state of affairs if the courts are still forcing people to go to AA. It's bad for AA, and bad for the person who is forced to go. "AA is not for those who need it, it is for those who want it."


Do you have a link or site for the Court challenges of AA? I cannot find anything of value.

Anyways, my sense is that you are not really really interested in quiting for the rest of your life, only for a while to get out of the mess you are in.

I suppose you're right here. But, I will make the most of it when I go. I will not blow it off knowing that I will continue to drink later.

IT, I've had a few friends in AA. This is actually the first time that I've heard that it's religion based.

Bottom line, it's about helping you to quit drinking. Whenever you see the word God, replace it with word Dog and make it your own. The program works, and when it works God has nothing to do with it. It's all you.

I'm not religious either. I wouldn't hesitate when it came to this program. I think you'll be shocked to find that the majority of the people in AA don't believe in God. Those are the people you'll be interacting with. Those are the people that will get you through this program. Them, but most importantly you. God has nothing to do with it. :)