Here is a video of Paul Ryan schooling the President on Obamacare .

Paul Ryan: Hiding Spending Doesn't Reduce Spending - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPxMZ1WdINs)

(note at the 5:23 point the classless President gives Ryan the middle finger salute)
I'm sure the Obots are dusting off those “Throw Granny over the cliff” commercials .

(note at the 5:23 point the classless President gives Ryan the middle finger salute)No he's not. YOU have no class.

Hello tom:

Nahhh... At 4:04 the guy two seats to left of Ryan is giving him the finger. He really gets into it 5:19.

excon

No He is definitely giving Ryan the finger... just like he did to previous opponents Evita ,and McCain. But I regret mentioning it because it diverts from the schooling Ryan gave the President on Obamacare.

I can't wait for the VP debate between Ryan and Biden (if Biden isn't thrown under the bus by the convention) .

Hello tom:

Nahhh... At 4:04 the guy two seats to left of Ryan is giving him the finger. He really gets into it 5:19.

excon
Yeah, and that guy can hardly stay awake too.

Nah he's using his index finger . The middle finger salute uses the 3rd digit. The President is very adept at using the coded message .
Obama Gives Hillary The Finger - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DygBj4Zw6No)
Obama Gives McCain the Middle Finger - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc8Wc1CN7sY)

Hello again, tom:

School?? SCHOOL?? Really...

Ryan voted for the Iraq war and didn't think we needed to PAY for it... He voted for the prescription drug program.. It's a GREAT program.. They gave away the ranch. But he didn't think we needed to PAY for it...

Today, he mentioned that, "no one disputes that President Obama inherited a bad situation." What he failed to say is, he's the one who MADE IT BAD.

I think we're going to hear about that.

excon

I'm sure the Obots are dusting off those “Throw Granny over the cliff” commercials .Hello again, tom:

Speaking of Granny. My 85 year old granny is GOOD at shopping, if she could only remember what shopping is. I'll bet you'll hear about that too.

excon

He voted for the prescription drug program.. It's a GREAT program..

Yes as a back bencher he was forced to vote for programs President Bush advanced . He even voted for TARP which you think was necessary ;but I opposed. I understand his role in the Bush years. Since he assumed a leadership position in the House he has been uncompromising . Since then he has been determined to tame the federal government. His proposals for reforming Medicare are much bigger deals than Medicare Part D .

This Ryan pick is good because there is no more gray area . We have a clear ideological choice in this election. He counters Romney's fuzziness with a clear conservative stand on most of the policies of the day. With this pick ,Romney has FINALLY declared his fate is tied with conservative principles .

Ryan can serve the same role that LBJ did in that he knows how to manage the inside the beltway stuff ,(his latest Medicare proposal is co-sponsored with a Senate Democrat) ,that Biden is apparently incapable of. (also not his votes for Bush era policies that he clearly opposed ) . You guys talk of bipartisanship .Well there's your man . Since he has the trust of both the establishment and the TP wing ;he's likely to have more negotiating room with the Republican majority .

Romney and Ryan sounds good on announcement day, but the election is a ways off and we will get a good look at the young gun hired to get Mitt elected. The right loves it, and so does the left. Better than Palin was.

Vouchers will be talked about a whole lot!! No way will seniors pay for Romney's raise. NO WAY!!

Paul Ryan is a disciple of the one of the strangest figures to ever hit the American scene in politics/philosophy - Ayn Rand.

Recently, after being taken to task by an American Catholic Nun organization as being completely in opposition to long-standing Catholic principles re the poor, Ryan has backtracked a bit. (He is a Catholic).

The Obama crowd must be delighted with this turn of events. When Ryan's ideas become public knowledge, which they will, he will be dumped like yesterday's garbage. Only the far right will continue to sing his praises.

Yeah I'm sure the mud is being mixed already .

Don't take too much out of what one Catholic nun organization says and does. The politics of the Catholic Church stretches the political spectrum. In my younger days I was briefly drawn to the liberation theologies of the Maryknoll and Jesuit orders . These are fringe Catholic positions.

And ,he is more a disciple of Jack Kemp ,and a former speech writer of Kemp. A Catholic could not completely embrace Rand because of her atheism . He does however speak of her belief in individualism versus collectivism .Here is what Ryan has said about the subject.

“I reject her philosophy,” ... “It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview. If somebody is going to try to paste a person's view on epistemology to me, then give me Thomas Aquinas…Don't give me Ayn Rand.”


When Ryan's ideas become public knowledge, which they will, he will be dumped like yesterday's garbage. Only the far right will continue to sing his praises.
Amazing how he consistently wins reelection in a district that hasn't gone Republican in a Presidential election since 1984. The truth is that his positions were at a time when the Dems weren't so radical ,considered mainstream reformist. The basis of his reforms of Medicare was once embraced by a bipartisan commission appointed by Bill Clintoon. His current proposal is co-sponsored by Democrat senator Ron Wyden of Oregon.

And he likes Led Zeppelin, noodling and bow hunting. Can't wait for the Obama ads on teaming up two killers for the GOP... cancer causer and granny killer.

This person appears somewhat divisive, it will be interesting to see how Romney handles an attack dog

Hello again,

He's a wonderful fellow.. He's going to DESTROY Medicare while he's telling you he's SAVING it. I don't think we'll be fooled.

excon

Destroy Medicare ? More likely Obamacare will be the vehicle to destroy Medicare. The Ryan/Widen competitive bidding plan saves Medicare. And of course ,the Ryan/Widen plan is very similar to the proposal that Romney has advanced .
The basic idea behind competitive bidding is that, say, on a county-by-county basis, you let private plans and traditional Medicare offer plans with the same actuarial value compete, to see who can offer the same package of benefits the most efficiently. Each plan in a given county will name a price for which they are willing to offer these services, and seniors are free to pick whichever plan they want. However, the government will only subsidize an amount equal to the bid proposed by the second-cheapest plan. If you want a more expensive plan, you have to pay the difference yourself.The plan would only go into effect for people aged 55 or younger... so current Seniors are not affected .

My 85 year old granny is GOOD at shopping, if she could only remember what shopping is. I'll bet you'll hear about that too.
The plan would only go into effect for people aged 55 or younger ...so current Seniors are not affected .Hello again, tom:

So, are you telling us that those people aged 55 or younger will NEVER grow into 85 year old's who'll be FORCED into making insurance BUYING decisions??

Really?

excon

That's great that Romney/Ryan protect old people and throw grannies kids and grand kids under the bus!

R/R think that privatizing EVERY thing with out rules and regulations helps every one, and that idea NEVER works for the rest of us, just him and his privateers. Bush tried that privatization reform deal,and got shot down. So will R/R!

I don't think people will go for "trickle down economics" on steroids. No matter how you try to dress it up, rename it, or sell it.

You just hope we will!

“I reject her philosophy,” ... “It’s an atheist philosophy....”
Actually, it began like this:

At an Atlas Society meeting celebrating Ayn Rand's life in 2005, Ryan said that "The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand," and "I grew up reading Ayn Rand and it taught me quite a bit about who I am and what my value systems are, and what my beliefs are. It’s inspired me so much that it’s required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff."

In response to criticism from Catholic leaders, in 2012 Ryan distanced himself from Rand's Objectivist philosophy, telling National Review, "I reject her philosophy. It's an atheist philosophy. It reduces human interactions down to mere contracts and it is antithetical to my worldview", and noting that his views were more aligned with those of the Roman Catholic philosopher and saint, Thomas Aquinas, than Ayn Rand. “Don’t give me Ayn Rand,” he said in 2012.

So Ryan's a flip-flopper too?

with out rules and regulations another bogus strawman.

WG one can adopt individualism over collectivism and still be a believer in God . My experience is that it's more likely that the collectivists are more likely to be atheists .

WG one can adopt individualism over collectivism and still be a believer in God . My experience is that it's more likely that the collectivists are more likely to be atheists .
That wasn't my point.

I don't see any other apparent contradiction in his 2 statements that would make it a flip flop. .

I don't see any other apparent contradiction in his 2 statements that would make it a flip flop. . Hello again, tom:


"It's inspired me so much that it's required reading in my office for all my interns and my staff."


"I reject her philosophy". Looks like a flip flop to me.. But, you guys define flip flop differently than ordinary folks.

Excon

another bogus strawman.

I love it when you dismiss ideas that goes against your "free market", "supply side" ideology.

I break it down this way, CORPORATE WELFARE is acceptable, INDIVIDUAL welfare is NOT. That's where corporations write the rules and regulations, and we get drill, baby, drill, AND no corporate responsibility for Exxon Valdez, or BP in the Gulf.

Big oil hates green technology, and electric cars, so NO cap and trade! Bogus strawman argument you say, okay WHO benefits from a keystone pipeline? Big Oil! Who pays for it? Taxpayers.

Conservatives always HOLLER "another bogus straw man" when facts conflicts with their ideology. That's easier than admitting the simple truths about your free market corporate welfare that we the people pay for.

Corporate extraction is R/R/R/R economy of choice in this election

R/R/R/R... Romney Ryan Roadmap to Ruin!! (or more BS... Bush on Steroids)

Hello again,

When vetting veep candidates, did Romney ask them for tax returns? If so, how many years' worth did they supply?

Ex what was on the President's Year Book ? That he was a member of the Choom gang ? Yeah I think it was.

Tal ,unless you can prove that R/R believe the market should operate without rules and regulations then indeed it is a strawman and a falsehood you state .

WG ,what Mitt requires for vetting HIS VP candidate is his business. Mitt has fulfilled what is required of him .

WG ,what Mitt requires for vetting HIS VP candidate is his business. Mitt has fulfilled what is required of him .
Have we seen his birth certificate?

I won't reply to that since I've never made that an issue.

Tal ,unless you can prove that R/R believe the market should operate without rules and regulations then indeed it is a strawman and a falsehood you state .

http://www.mittromney.com/issues/regulation


•Amend Clean Air Act to exclude carbon dioxide from its purview

•Prevent overregulation of shale gas development and extraction

Under regulations;

A Romney administration will act swiftly to tear down the vast edifice of regulations the Obama administration has imposed on the economy. It will also seek to make structural changes to the federal bureaucracy that ensure economic growth remains front and center when regulatory decisions are made.


•Amend NLRA to explicitly protect the right of business owners to allocate their capital as they see fit

Even you righties don't know his specifics, but it looks good on paper doesn't it?

So he wants to eliminate over-regulation. So do I . That doesn't mean he thinks' the market should operate without rules and regulations '.

So Romney thinks he is the next President, is this the Ryan-Romney ticket?

Only if you think Biden is running the country now.

No Romney said it, I heard him, many a slip twixt the tongue and the lip

He picked Ryan because Ryan is a conservative hero to many, and he needed the help in a big way and TPawl, and Portman were not the energizers Ryan is, nor do they have the skills, or reputation Ryan brings to the table.

Let the real vetting begin.

The Ryan pick is good because there is no more gray area . We have a clear ideological choice in this election. Hello again, tom:

I agree.. I hope we HAVE that debate instead of demigougery. Do I think we'll get it? Nahhh.

excon

Mr Ryan and the right have a lots of rocks to dodge, just saying. I mean they have been throwing rocks at this president for 3 solid years. Lets have the debate, but lets also keep the rocks handy. We know the right has plenty, because that's all they got.

Ex what was on the President's Year Book ? that he was a member of the Choom gang ? Yeah I think it was.

http://cdn.eurweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/obama_pot2012-bw-med-wide.jpg

Thats great that Romney/Ryan protect old people and throw grannies kids and grand kids under the bus!

'Romney Murdered JonBenét Ramsey,' New Obama Campaign Ad Alleges (http://www.theonion.com/articles/romney-murdered-jonbenet-ramsey-new-obama-campaign,29114/?ref=auto)

'Romney Murdered JonBenét Ramsey,' New Obama Campaign Ad Alleges (http://www.theonion.com/articles/romney-murdered-jonbenet-ramsey-new-obama-campaign,29114/?ref=auto)Hello again, Steve:

Pssst... It the Onion. You can also read about Michael Phelps (http://www.theonion.com/articles/romney-murdered-jonbenet-ramsey-new-obama-campaign,29114/?ref=auto)returning to his tank at Sea World.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

Pssst.... It the Onion. You can also read about Michael Phelps (http://www.theonion.com/articles/romney-murdered-jonbenet-ramsey-new-obama-campaign,29114/?ref=auto)returning to his tank at Sea World.

excon

Psst, I know it's The Onion. Even they get how silly and shallow the attacks on Romney/Ryan are. Right up there with your yearbook pic.

Right up there with your yearbook pic.Hello again, Steve:

Here's a nice pitcha...

Psst, I know it's The Onion. Even they get how silly and shallow the attacks on Romney/Ryan are. Right up there with your yearbook pic.

But Speech, we have 3 years of SILLY to catch up to you guys on, but we probably never will, as the right wing silly NEVER stops!

But Speech, we have 3 years of SILLY to catch up to you guys on, but we probably never will, as the right wing silly NEVER stops!

LOL, after 8 years of Bush Derangement Syndrome... wait, that's still alive and well. No sir, you guys are light years ahead on the silly and shallow factor.

Hello again,

Ok, let's spell it out... We have a clear choice about the future of our country... One side wants to eliminate Medicare as we know it, and make draconian cuts to every single program designed to keep the poor from starving. The cuts they make WON'T go toward reducing the deficit either. They'll go toward massive tax cuts for the wealthiest amongst us. Finally, they'll take women's health care back 100 years, and bring back the coat hanger abortion.

The OTHER side wants to keep the safety net in place, and even expand it to those who fall through the cracks... Finally, they want the richest amongst us to pay their fair share.

That's about it, isn't it? Over to you, wingers.

excon

One side wants to eliminate Medicare as we know it
Would that be the side that cut Medicare by $ 700 billion ? Oh yeah I know ;when the Dems cut Medicare to fund Obamacare it's called saving it .

Hello again,

Yes, I have more to say... Ryan, the Tea Party fav, is clearly running the show. His pick should give Grover Norquist (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/13/1064417/-Grover-Norquist-on-the-GOP-candidates-All-we-need-is-someone-who-can-handle-a-pen) a woody. "All we need is someone who can 'handle a pen'."

He's got his man.

excon

Hello again,

Ok, let's spell it out... We have a clear choice about the future of our country... One side wants to eliminate Medicare as we know it, and make draconian cuts ...

We have one side that's serious about getting the country on the right track and one side being silly, shallow and running on clichés. Clichés aren't going to feed the poor.

The RR team will advance a return to American Exceptionalism, free market economics, energy independence, reducing taxes and the strangling regulation on the job producer.

The Obots will continue to advance the issues that RR will kill you, your wife, throw granny off the cliff and deny Sandra Fluke her birth control pills.

Hello again, tom:

Even though our terms were different, I think we BOTH encapsulated the debate.

Now what?

excon

We have one side that's serious about getting the country on the right track and one side being silly, shallow and running on cliches. Cliches aren't going to feed the poor.

Neither will Romneys cuts or his tax policies. Matter of fact, we allwill be poor and hungry.


The RR team will advance a return to American Exceptionalism, free market economics, energy independence, reducing taxes and the strangling regulation on the job producer.

The Obots will continue to advance the issues that RR will kill you, your wife, throw granny off the cliff and deny Sandra Fluke her birth control pills.

That's translates to more for the rich who will pee on our heads and call it the Path To Prosperity.

No wonder you guys like throwing rocks from the right, ITS FUN, no brain needed. HEHEHE!! Not much in debating points though, but FUN!!

Neither will Romneys cuts or his tax policies. Matter of fact, we allwill be poor and hungry.

Only because Obama tied the Catholic church's hands and will only let them feed Catholics.


That's translates to more for the rich who will pee on our heads and call it the Path To Prosperity.

At least we know where the money to get the economy going comes from. Your guy thinks jobs come from the "bottom up" with Big Brother's benevolent blessing.

QUOTE by speechlesstx;
Only because Obama tied the Catholic church's hands and will only let them feed Catholics.

What poor people need an ID to get fed now?


At least we know where the money to get the economy going comes from. Your guy thinks jobs come from the "bottom up" with Big Brother's benevolent blessing.

Ask small business who there customers are. It ain't Mitt, or Trump. Customers who have money to spend is what keeps the economy going.

So who needs the money to create jobs? We do, us middle class blue collar guys, and gals. Mitt hides his loot overseas. Ask him how many blue collar people can afford the services he provides. NONE!!

What poor people need an ID to get fed now?

How quickly you forget (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/birth-control-pills-640913-24.html#post3202843), or just ignore.


As all of us know, Catholic Charities serves the poor because we are a Catholic organization, not because our clients are Catholic. We strongly believe at Catholic Charities that we witness our faith by our service to the poor. We ask only, “Are you hungry?” “Do you need clothing?” or “Are you homeless?” Under the HHS mandate, to be a “religious employer” we would now have to ask, “Are you Catholic?” This goes against everything that Catholic Charities stands for as an organization. Under the HHS mandate, we are punished for both employing and reaching out to serve non-Catholics, which is an injustice.

Again, because Obama thinks free birth control is the most important thing to women (after abortion) the church will no longer be able to feed the hungry.


Ask small business who there customers are. It ain't Mitt, or Trump. Customers who have money to spend is what keeps the economy going.

Those who don't have much to spend are spending it at Walmart and dollar stores, just adding to corporate riches.


So who needs the money to create jobs? We do, us middle class blue collar guys, and gals. Mitt hides his loot overseas. Ask him how many blue collar people can afford the services he provides. NONE!!


So no one buys from Domino's Pizza, Guitar Center, Staples, Burger King, Dunkin' Donuts or any of the other businesses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bain_Capital#Investments_gallery) Bain acquired?

And by the way, even the left-leaning Politifact voted the Ryan "eliminate Medicare as we know it" lie the "lie of the year (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/dec/20/lie-year-democrats-claims-republicans-voted-end-me/)" for 2011. Oh, and did you know that the latest version of the Ryan plan was the product of a bipartisan effort (http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2011/12/17/why-wyden-ryan-is-a-game-changer-on-medicare-reform/) by Ryan and Democrat Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon?

You probably did but go ahead, keep telling the lie of the year anyway.

He knew that factoid as far back as the 9th response on this thred and probably earlier. I wonder if Wyden will be primaried by the radical progressives that have taken over the Dem party.

You know I have to laugh at how niaive some people think the voters are. Here is a man who thinks attacking the benefits of the aged is a successful electoral ploy. A very short term and short sighted policy. Ok he wants to cap the cost, so perhaps he could try different strategies, like changing the elegibility rules, but to throw granny off the cliff with a hankerchief for a parachute might just be electoral suicide

What is national suicide is leaving the system as it is .Medicare, in its current form, is unsustainable and must change.

But why wasn't the gutting of Medicare funding by Obama an act of electoral suicide ? Why wasn't reducing it's funding by over $700 billion the equivant of throwing grandma over the cliff?
The question is choice. Ryan's plan would give future seniors vouchers to purchase private insurance while slowing growing costs in Medicare. Obama's plan is tied to Obamacare .It sets up a panel of experts to propose cuts to make Medicare spending more manageable.The cuts would target providers . But already more and more doctors are not taking new Medicare patients because of the compensation issues.Obama changes Medicare(as we know it) . His plan relies on government rationing.

The Ryan /Wyden plan is about choice. New participants will have the choice to enter the dinosaur 1965 system if they want to ,or to join a competitive bidding plan.

Bottom line ;even the most optimistic predictions have the whole system collapsing in a decade (most predictions are within this decade ). Anyone who thinks Medicare is not going to be 'changed as we know it " is fooling themselves.

It seems Tom your whole health care system needs a radical rethink, right now it is nothing but a political football. Whenever you speak about these things you speak about costs but do nothing to control the costs at source, the runaway costs imposed by the medical profession and the drug companies. There is nothing else for it you will just have to stop people living longer, what will happen to you if your life expectancy becomes as high as ours.

What is national suicide is leaving the system as it is. Medicare, in its current form, is unsustainable and must change.
Medicare is fine. What has to change is drug companies and hospitals bleeding it dry.

That's the problem for the short term. The longer term problem is demographics . Us Baby boomers ,who are now becoming eligible at ever greater numbers have not replaced the population. The ratio of system users to people paying for the system continues to shrink . Very soon ,the system will be unsustainable.
The hard facts is that there are roughly 60 million people drawing Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid ;and another 50 million Medicaid recipients for a total of 110 million people drawing from those entitlements.There are only 115 million full-time jobs in the U.S. So we are getting close to a 1:1 ratio of worker to entitlement recipient . With the system paying out about 10 times more per person than it collects in taxes... That would mean we would need about a 10-1 ratio of worker to recipient to make it sustainable .Draconian reductions in services and compensation reductions would make it closer no doubt . Bust as I already mentioned; servers are dropping out already because of the compensation issue.

It probably would've been closer to sustainable had it actually been managed as advertised ,with trust funds properly managed . But the trust funds are a criminal farce. Both SS and Medicare are currently pay-as you-go systems.

There is an answer Tom let in all those immigrants, have a sustained population explosion and you solve two problems, you automatically become a low cost country and the taxes can pay the benefits. I knew If I thought about it long enough I would find a solution for you. You see, Tom, you really have to think left field on this one. This one solves the foreign policy problem too, no fence, and well, no worries about China, they will be able to buy from you

Hasta la vista baby

vihja con Dios

I have absolutely no problem with LEGAL immigration. It is our generation that has dropped the ball with killing off muti-millions of future supporters of the entitlement system.

By the way... The Dems tried the Mediscare tactic in 2010 . They got trounced . Glad to see they've learned their lesson.

Medicare is fine. What has to change is drug companies and hospitals bleeding it dry.

Medicare is nort fine, it has about a 12 year lifespan right now, and Obama is using it as piggy bank for Obamacare. Besides what he's already cut out of Medicare, $741 billion now according to the CBO, his completely unaccountable Independent Payment Advisory Board is going to cut Medicare payments thereby rationing healthcare for seniors even further. Obama is throwing granny over the cliff, Ryan is trying to save her.

LOL, talk about lies, Obama took money from medicare, but from the supply side, not the benefits, but Romney does the same thing, but gives it to rich guys. He may not throw granny under the bus, but her grandkids and kids are toast. NOBODY want the vouchers, and the system is SOLVENT to 2024.

We know the reason for all the right wing cuts, its to support more corporate welfare, so they can hide more money and open sweat shops overseas. I doubt seriously that the country goes along with the right wing plans.

Medicare is nort fine, it has about a 12 year lifespan right now
Who stole the trust fund?

The guys holding the bags of loot running for the hills!

Medicare is nort fine, it has about a 12 year lifespan right now,Hello again, Steve:

As a businessman, if I'm overpaying for a necessary service that I provide, I don't END the service.. I FIX it.. Certainly if we keep overspending on Medicare, it won't last.. But, if we fixed the COSTS it would last FOREVER..

Romney said a little something that has gone unnoticed by everyone, but ME... When he was in Israel, he mentioned how they were able to get soooo much BANG for their medical buck... And, that was it.. He really didn't wonder TOO long..

But, if we can do what the Israeli's did, (and I don't see why we can't), Medicare would last FOREVER.. So, it's a POLITICAL problem - NOT a fiscal problem.. We just need to remove the people STANDING in the way.

excon

I heard that too ex, and everybody gets more bang for their buck, and better outcomes. Wonder why?

Single payer, and strict rules and regulations, MANDATED PARTICIPATION?? No Republican Party?

What none mention is the problems in the Israeli system. It is inequitable in that there is better health care in the urban areas than in the rural areas... that there is a shortage of doctors and health care providers... and that the system is underfunded despite the fact that Israelis pay higher taxes ,and the system is universal .
Now multiply those problems by 40x and you would see that it is not necessarily true that their system would work here.
On the positive side ;their system is NOT single payer as you recognize it . It works better than most because there is market-style competition. Each citizen chooses from four non-governmental providers, called a 'kupat cholim' .These providers are required to provide basic services but they compete for customers and customers shop for the best deal.

LOL, talk about lies, Obama took money from medicare, but from the supply side, not the benefits,

Please feel free to document whatever the heck it is you're trying to say here.


but Romney does the same thing, but gives it to rich guys. He may not throw granny under the bus, but her grandkids and kids are toast. NOBODY want the vouchers, and the system is SOLVENT to 2024.

Or in other words, it goes INSOLVENT in 12 years, but that's OK, I understand progressives are mathematically challenged.


We know the reason for all the right wing cuts, its to support more corporate welfare, so they can hide more money and open sweat shops overseas. I doubt seriously that the country goes along with the right wing plans.

You really need another line of attack, this one's beyond stale. Americans want jobs, Obama just gives us more stagnation and national debt.

Hello again, Steve:

As a businessman, if I'm overpaying for a necessary service that I provide, I don't END the service..

I repeat, the left-leaning Politifact 2011 lie of the year is the Ryan plan ends Medicare.

Lie of the Year 2011: 'Republicans voted to end Medicare' (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2011/dec/20/lie-year-democrats-claims-republicans-voted-end-me/)

I repeat again, after complaints Ryan worked with a Democrat from Oregon to hash out a compromise plan. But keep on lying, that's all you apparently have.

I think The Onion has you guys pegged (http://www.theonion.com/articles/admit-it-i-scare-the-everloving--out-of-you-do,29160/?ref=auto) again...

(edited for profanity)


Admit It, I Scare The Ever-Loving S**t Out Of You, Don't I?

By Paul Ryan
Candidate for Vice President of the United States
August 13, 2012 | ISSUE 48•33

When Mitt Romney selected me as his running mate, I knew the Democratic attack dogs would come out in full force. They would say I’m a right-wing ideologue. They would say my views on entitlement programs are far too radical. They would say putting me on the ticket immediately kills Mitt Romney’s chances of becoming president because I’m a liability. But if we’re being honest with each other—if we’re able to put aside the talking points for a few minutes and say what we’re all actually thinking and feeling—I believe we can acknowledge the real truth here.

I’m young, I’m handsome, I’m smart, and I’m articulate. And that scares the ever-loving s**t out of you. You can pretend like you have this thing in the bag, but you know good g*****n well that this race just got real interesting, real fast.

It’s okay to admit it. You’re frightened to death of me. It might actually be healthy for you to face your fears now rather than later, when Mitt and I are leading by a few points in the polls and it looks like this thing might end badly for you. Face it: I’m not some catastrophe waiting to happen, like a Sarah Palin or a Dan Quayle. On the contrary, you have the exact opposite fear. I’m a solid, competent, some might say exceptional, politician.

Did you get nervous when you read that last sentence? Is it because you know in your heart of hearts that it’s 100 percent true? Is it because, even if you strongly disagree with my beliefs on Medicare, Social Security, women’s rights, and marriage equality, you know my talent as a speaker and my well-thought-out approach to these issues—no matter how radical and convoluted you find them—might just be enough to win over independent voters?

Do you get chills just thinking about how strong my appeal actually is?

I have another question for you: How scared are you that I can convince people I’m right? Because I’m good at it. No, I’m really good at it. You see, I know how to turn up the charm and charisma without putting people off. Then I back up what I’m saying with arguments that, when they come out of my mouth, sound completely accurate and well-reasoned. And I do it with such passion that people automatically recognize me as a man with deep convictions he will stand up for, no matter what.

The American people love that s**t. They love it.

Passion, intellect, and a magnetic personality. Pretty damn intimidating combo, if I say so myself. You want to talk about polish? Man, I’ve got polish for miles. Oh, and by the way, I’ll say this next thing because, if we’re being honest, why the hell not, right? In case you haven’t noticed, I’m white. Hoo, brother, am I white.

Yup, you should be scared s**tless of me, because guess who isn’t? The people of Wisconsin. They love me. Republicans and Democrats there love me. Hell, I get Democrats to vote for me even if my policies make zero sense when it comes to their livelihoods. Do you know why? Because they like me. They like my story. Young, good-looking kid who pulled himself up by his bootstraps to make something of himself. Christ, I'm a storybook candidate. I balance out this ticket so well it’s almost too perfect. The people of Ohio are going to think that. And seniors in Florida—the state we supposedly lost when Mitt picked me—won’t be so scared as soon they know that my mother lives in Florida, and that all I want to do is reform the health care system so she can receive care that makes good fiscal sense.

Boy, I’m going to sell the s**t out of that talking point. And I’m going to do a great job of it. Why? Because I’m Paul Ryan. That’s what I do.

And if we’re having trouble getting Pennsylvania on board, just wait until I absolutely wipe the floor with Joe Biden in the vice presidential debates. Don’t think for a second that I don’t know you’re terrified of us facing off, because in the back of your mind you know it could be a bloodbath up there.

Well, that’s 77 electoral votes, and by my math that means you can kiss your golden boy goodbye after four short years. All that promise. All that energy. All that potential. Gone in one November night.

I’m your worst f*****g nightmare.

Oh, and by the way, don’t even try to pretend you haven’t imagined me being elected president one day.

Hello again, Steve:

I read your "lie of the year". When I got to the part where it was telling us how the Democrats lied, I found this:

"• They used harsh terms such as "end" and "kill" when the program would still exist, although in a privatized system."

Now, I suspect you fellows believe, with ALL your hearts, and ALL your souls that PRIVATIZED Medicare is the same as what we have now.. But, in the REAL world, it ISN'T. It isn't even close.

So, if THAT'S the lie you think we told, you don't understand what a lie is... But, I think we've already established that on another thread..

excon

And I'll add again that it is in fact Obamacare that fundamentally ends Medicare "as we know it" . It is Obamacare that robs the plan of $700 billion plus to kick start Obamacare . It is Obamacare that cuts Medicare more than R/R ever considered (Ryan's plan cuts spending ;Romney's doesn't ) .The truth is that in order to fund an expansion of government subsidized health insurance for all ;Obamacare robs resourses from the elderly .
So while R/R are trying to deal with the long term solvency of Medicare ;Obama reduces funding for Medicare and still does not address the solvency issue. .

So, if THAT'S the lie you think we told, you don't understand what a lie is... But, I think we've already established that on another thread..

excon

Dude, this is YOUR side calling it the lie of the year, not mine.

and still does not address the solvency issue. .Hello again, tom:

Eventually the solvency issue will be dealt with by instituting single payer.. Then we'll be able to afford EVERYTHING in our government spending wishlist.. That INCLUDES a few big aircraft carriers, if that'll make you happy.

The PROBLEM is, you wingers are going to FORCE us over the fiscal cliff FIRST, with your outdated medical delivery system... Then, and ONLY then can we get in line with the REST of the world...

Which brings me to my next thought. What I don't understand, is why you believe that the ENTIRE civilized world is BACKWARDS on this issue, when the NUMBERS prove otherwise.. I thought you guys LIKED numbers... No, huh?

excon

Let's see, half of Europe just went over the cliff and you want to follow them. No, that won't make me happy.

We need to head the opposite direction and restore MORE of our liberties and individuality and make this country the great, exceptional nation it once was before progressives ruined it. As opposed to say, turning this country into Greece.

I don't know... maybe the tort laws are different in the rest of the civilized world . Harder to sue the government for malepractice ? Maybe what I read about the horrors of the delivery systems for the rest of the world is true . Maybe the rest of the world is good for the very basic services ;but the more affluent come here when there is specialty care required . Maybe providers aren't paid a fair pay for their services elsewhere and that is why we get so many quality doctors emigrating here . Maybe medicines and medical devices available here are rare other places.. Maybe in some of these systems there are clever ways to pay for premium services ;like the membership fees in Israeli clinics to guarantee a call within the day and a visit within 2 days with the Doc of your choice.
I'm sure there are many other reasons I haven't thought of ;and I'm sure there is room for improvements in our system. I don't buy into the proposition that central ,top down ,socialized medicine is the answer. We have a fundamental disagreement .

Its not socialized medicine since every state has options and waivers and funding to implement a system tailored for their own needs. As do incentives for hospitals to address their own models and delivery systems. Aca allows somuch latitude that even a moron can make some basic adjustsments and expand and streamline through technology.

Quietly as its kept MANY govenors and providers have embraced and partnered with the federal government, despite the hollering of some because the biggest challenge it seems is in manning the workers for that expansion. Not only scholastically, but on the job.


Quote:
Originally Posted by talaniman
LOL, talk about lies, Obama took money from medicare, but from the supply side, not the benefits,

Speech;
Please feel free to document whatever the heck it is you're trying to say here.

>sigh< I gave you the link to the ACA bill it self which cuts administrative costs from providers and insurance companies (Supply side, not benefits to particapants), and closes the donut hole which Ryan voted for in the Bush administration (which is part of the deficit we now worry about, along with wars and defense contracts), Part D (prescptions for seniors currently under medicare), which unless you KNOW someone struggling with part D,
Was expense for both government and seniors. Basically that where the money went.


There is a big difference, though, in the thrust of the reductions between Ryan and Obama's plans. ObamaCare specifically calls for no reductions in benefits (though, again, if you squeeze providers, benefits will be harder to receive) because it's essentially a defined benefit plan. Ryan calls for a defined contribution plan. And under Ryan's scenario, there's a good bet that the contribution won't be enough to cover health expenses that ObamaCare seeks to guarantee.

Read more here: Obama's $700 billion Medicare-cut problem | Naked Politics (http://miamiherald.typepad.com/nakedpolitics/2012/08/obamas-700-billion-medicare-cut-problem.html#storylink=cpy)Quote:

T

but Romney does the same thing, but gives it to rich guys. He may not throw granny under the bus, but her grandkids and kids are toast. NOBODY want the vouchers, and the system is SOLVENT to 2024.


Speech
Or in other words, it goes INSOLVENT in 12 years, but that's OK, I understand progressives are mathematically challenged.

Stop hollering and get busy, we have 12 years to get a good plan between us don't we? Don't panic now!


Quote: T
We know the reason for all the right wing cuts, its to support more corporate welfare, so they can hide more money and open sweat shops overseas. I doubt seriously that the country goes along with the right wing plans.


Speech
You really need another line of attack, this one's beyond stale. Americans want jobs, Obama just gives us more stagnation and national debt.

Bridges, roads, schools, hospitals, teachers, firefighters, nurses, infrastructure, power grids! You know that jobs bill you guys fillibustered and holler about. IMMEDIATE jobs. Plenty of work, Lazy a$$ congress. Right wing obstruction and BS!!

Need a link for that too?

Bridges, roads, schools, hospitals, teachers, firefighters, nurses, infrastructure, power grids! You know that jobs bill you guys fillibustered and holler about. IMMEDIATE jobs. Plenty of work, Lazy a$$ congress. Right wing obstruction and BS!!!

Need a link for that too?

Same old, same old, government is going to create all those jobs blah, blah, blah. How many jobs have the 'stimulus' created so far and at what cost per job? Hey, let's just throw a few billion more of your favorite corporate welfare into those awesome green companies for starters.

Same old, same old, government is going to create all those jobs blah, blah, blah. How many jobs have the 'stimulus' created so far and at what cost per job?
How do you think Romney will create jobs then? Bring all the help-desk jobs back from India?

The stimulus got the states through, and we do see jobs being created by the ones that made good use of the tax cuts in them which still exists, as well as the building projects, especially in TEXAS!!

Texas Recovery: On the Money, Texas Stimulus in Plain English (http://www.window.state.tx.us/recovery/onthemoney/)

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009)

Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program)

Ryan voted for it!

The stimulus got the states thru, and we do see jobs being created by the ones that made good use of the tax cuts in them which still exists, as well as the the building projects, especially in TEXAS!!!

Texas Recovery: On the Money, Texas Stimulus in Plain English (http://www.window.state.tx.us/recovery/onthemoney/)

American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Recovery_and_Reinvestment_Act_of_2009)

Troubled Asset Relief Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program)

Ryan voted for it!

It's already been acknowledged that Ryan voted for it, that isn't the question. The question is how many jobs have the 'stimulus' created so far and at what cost per job?

How do you think Romney will create jobs then? Bring all the help-desk jobs back from India?

For one I would hope he'll take the federal jackboot off the neck of businesses.

For one I would hope he'll take the federal jackboot off the neck of businesses.
And that will help how?

Originally Posted by speechlesstx
For one I would hope he'll take the federal jackboot off the neck of businesses.

Hey is that a right wing straw argument? Or an audition for Fox News anchor? I can't tell!

Hello again,

As the campaign progresses, it appears that, like McCain before him, he chose an emergency veep to shore him up. Also, like Palin before him, Ryan wasn't vetted. Oh, they looked at his tax returns, but they DIDN'T look at how the COMBO of Romney and Ryan would WORK together... To me, it's looking like it's not going to work at all.. I heard he wanted a veep who WOULDN'T outshine him.. If so, he picked the WRONG guy.

For starters, it looks like it's RYAN'S campaign and Romney is the veep. Plus, I hear there's rumblings amongst the GOP that choosing Ryan is a direct path to LOSING...

excon

Yeah there are some establishment Repubics writing anonymously in Huffpo belly aching . I think Ryan is a great addition to the ticket. With Ryan,there is finally someone who can articulate the philosophical differences who believes what he's saying . Without Ryan ;the only case being made was that Romeny would be a better manager of the Leviathan that we've created . We now have someone who can credibly argue an alternative approach.

As far as Romney's position on jobs and the economy ;his economic experts published a white paper recently (bet you didn't know that... the compliant press did not deem it relevent).

White Paper Of Romney's Tax Reform - Misunderstood Finance (http://misunderstoodfinance.blogspot.com/2012/08/white-paper-of-romneys-tax-reform.html)


Romney faults the slow recovery on the President and the 2008-2010 Congress for their ineffectual policies to steer the nation out of recession. The President and Pelosi ,Reid et al focused on short turn gimmick stimulus programs and green energy initiatives ,instead of structural corrections . They also squandered a year forcing Obamacare on the nation .
Romney's position paper offers 4 fundamental pillars of reform that he believes will correct the structural flaws of the economy.

Romney's position paper offers 4 fundamental pillars of reform that he believes will correct the structural flaws of the economy.Hello again, tom:

You got a white paper... I got Reagan's budget director, David Stockman (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/14/opinion/paul-ryans-fairy-tale-budget-plan.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20120814).
In short, Mr. Ryan’s plan is devoid of credible math or hard policy choices. And it couldn’t pass even if Republicans were to take the presidency and both houses of Congress. Mr. Romney and Mr. Ryan have no plan to take on Wall Street, the Fed, the military-industrial complex, social insurance or the nation’s fiscal calamity and no plan to revive capitalist prosperity — just empty sermons.

Excon

Yeah I know that Stockman and Bruce Bartlett have become some of the libs favorite Reagonites . I wonder what the Slimes and the libs would say about his idea of jacking up the interest rates that feed their deficit spending ;or ending QE which has pumped fake money into the stimulus ?

If he is a critic of Republic deficits he must love the Obots. I know Stockman's complaint. His position about Romney and Ryan is that they aren't right wing enough. But ;for the left ,and enemy of my enemy is a friend. So Stockman get's his place on the Slimes editorial pages.

Wonder what Romney paid for that ad! Or did Rove pay for it? Hard to tell.

Are you talking about the white paper?. it is a position paper by the Romney campaign.

No wonder it sounded so familiar. I saw the same stuff in a western once. After the crooks robbed the bank, they told the posse "they went thata way". Off goes the posse. Off goes the robbers... the other way!

Hey is that a right wing straw argument?? Or an audition for Fox News anchor? I can't tell!

No sir, from Obama keeping their "boot on the throat of BP" to crucifying the first five guys they saw to instill terror in businesses, this administration has made no bones about their policy toward business.

this administration has made no bones about their policy toward business.Hello again, Steve:

That would be toward business that FOUL our wetlands, SOIL our beaches, KILL the fish, RUIN tourism, and then ACT like THEY'RE the victim.

What I would NEVER do, is apologize to BP for f**ing up the ocean, like that wimpy congressman, Joe Barton did. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20008020-503544.html) You probably think they're a victim too. Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

That would be toward business that FOUL our wetlands, SOIL our beaches, KILL the fish, RUIN tourism, and then ACT like THEY'RE the victim.

What I would NEVER do, is apologize to BP for f**ing up the ocean, like that wimpy congressman, Joe Barton did. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20008020-503544.html) You probably think they're a victim too. Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

So crucifying people as a preemptive strike is a good RESPONSE to bad behavior? You guys make no sense.

You know, and Tal repeats here every day, that when Obama actually talks policy it's quite often about keeping a clamp on corporations and striking fear into the hearts of people that Romney might loosen that clamp a little bit.

And quite personally I believe such threatening language as I highlighted is beneath the dignity of the office. I stand by my first comment.

So crucifying people as a preemptive strike is a good RESPONSE to bad behavior?
Huh? BP made the strike, did the bad behavior, and then was put on the naughty char for a time-out.

when Obama actually talks policy it's quite often about keeping a clamp on corporations and striking fear into the hearts of people that Romney might loosen that clamp a little bit.

Corporations are about money, not reponsibility. They are the ones that holler "feed me more", and whine when they don't get what they want. Which is MO MONEY!

If you don't make them they will poison the planet for a dollar, say oops, and poison it some more. Why are you down with that? Oh that's right, look at all the money they spent cleaning up their messes in Alaska and the gulf. Seen Alaska lately? Howmuch more time dowe wait for them to finish that?

Exxon Valdez oil spill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Valdez_oil_spill)

Exxon oil spill in Mont. river prompts evacuations - USATODAY.com (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-07-02-Yellowstone-Montana-Exxon-oil-spill_n.htm)

Exxon spill today - Bing Videos (http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Exxon+spill+today&qpvt=Exxon+spill+today&FORM=VDRE)

And you want Obama to coddle these fools?? That's okay, just another straw man argument!!

That won't cut it!

Huh? BP made the strike, did the bad behavior, and then was put on the naughty char for a time-out.

That was the boot on the neck incident. The other was an EPA dude's philosophy for enforcement...


"It was kind of like how the Romans used to, you know, conquer villages in the Mediterranean. They'd go in to a little Turkish town somewhere, they'd find the first five guys they saw, and they'd crucify them.

And then, you know, that town was really easy to manage for the next few years."

That would be preemptive.

Corporations are about money...

Duh!

That was the boot on the neck incident. The other was an EPA dude's philosophy for enforcement...
So bad behavior is okay?

P.S. And you think government is about responsibility? What rock were you born under?

Where is the responsibility in labeling Romney a tax dodger and slave master?

Where is the responsibility in Fast & Furious?

Where is responsibility in the New Black Panthers case?

Where is the responsibility in throwing taxpayer money at failed green corporations, trying to pick winners and losers?

Where is the responsibility in trying to block Boeing from South Carolina?

Where is the responsibility dumping on 20,000 non-union Delphi employees?

Where is the responsibility in the GSA?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/04/17/article-2130738-12A0A9F8000005DC-608_634x476.jpg

And now we have ICE chief of staff Suzanne Barr sexually harassing ICE employees (http://hotair.com/archives/2012/08/15/allegations-of-lewd-conduct-at-highest-levels-of-ice-force-leave-of-absence-by-chief-of-staff/).

Yeah, let's talk about responsibility.

P.S. Where's the responsibility in using personal email accounts to conduct official government business to conceal the cronyism in this administration (http://oversight.house.gov/release/oversight-committee-presses-energy-secretary-on-false-denials-improper-use-of-non-official-email-accounts-in-solyndra-loan-program/)?

So bad behavior is okay?

No, that's why federal officials shouldn't be using terms like "boot on the neck." This isn't Nazi Germany.

I guess 8 years of Bush left a lot of messes to clean up.

Yes it certainly left behind a lot of mixed messages

I guess 8 years of Bush left a lot of messes to clean up.

So Bush was behind all of those things I listed?

No he started all the crap, and you guys continued it! You asked.

No he started all the crap, and you guys continued it! You asked.

Bush isn't responsible for any of this (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/vp-paul-ryan-692749-11.html#post3237419), your guy is.

Bush isn't responsible for any of this (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/vp-paul-ryan-692749-11.html#post3237419), your guy is.Hello again, Steve:

I read your list. All, I got to say, is that the BEST you can do?? Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

I read your list. All, I got to say, is that the BEST you can do?? Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

Excon

That was for starters and thus far it seems to have stumped you and Tal.

P.S. Ryan is going to have a field day with Biden (https://twitter.com/Chris_Moody/statuses/236107399361089536)...


Paul Ryan in Ohio just now: “As Joe Biden might say, it’s great to be here in Nevada!”

Now that was funny.

That was for starters and thus far it seems to have stumped you and Tal.

P.S. Ryan is going to have a field day with Biden (https://twitter.com/Chris_Moody/statuses/236107399361089536)...



Now that was funny.

Well you've got the circus all you need is the tent

P.S. And you think government is about responsibility? What rock were you born under?


P.S. And you think government is about responsibility? What rock were you born under?

The government is US, We The People! What rock were you born under? It needs some fixing though.

Where is the responsibility in labeling Romney a tax dodger and slave master?

He is a tax dodger and he has the overseas accounts, shelters, and lawyers to prove it!
Just because it’s legal doesn’t make that statement a lie. I never called him a slave master, but he likes to fire people, so he likes being a boss.

Where is the responsibility in Fast & Furious?

Probably the same place as the waterboarding, Wall Street debacle, and republican obstruction that led to a lowered credit rating, and a looming budget crisis. It’s an ongoing investigation.

Where is responsibility in the New Black Panthers case?

The same place the guys responsible for the economic disaster that threw million out of work. FREE! Those three guys really scare you huh? You tell me where they are, I haven’t seen them in years.

Where is the responsibility in throwing taxpayer money at failed green corporations, trying to pick winners and losers?

ONE company out of 145 that got loans and grants from the Energy Department? Come on.

Where is the responsibility in trying to block Boeing from South Carolina?

It wasn’t blocked, there had to be guarantees that opening a new plant in Carolina didn’t lose jobs in Washington St. They both are running now.

Where is the responsibility dumping on 20,000 non-union Delphi employees?

They all will be paid, so what’s the beef?

Where is the responsibility in the GSA?

You got some specifics in your straw man claim? Matter of fact, all your questions are straw arguments. If only you were as sloppy in managing your fantasy team. One can hope though!

P.S. And you think government is about responsibility? What rock were you born under?

The government is US, We The People! What rock were you born under? It needs some fixing though.

You don't fix it with more bureaucracy, especially unaccountable bureaucrats like IPAB.


Where is the responsibility in labeling Romney a tax dodger and slave master?

He is a tax dodger and he has the overseas accounts, shelters, and lawyers to prove it!
Just because it’s legal doesn’t make that statement a lie. I never called him a slave master, but he likes to fire people, so he likes being a boss.

The lie is Reid said Romney didn't pay ANY taxes for 10 years.


Where is the responsibility in Fast & Furious?

Probably the same place as the waterboarding, Wall Street debacle, and republican obstruction that led to a lowered credit rating, and a looming budget crisis. It’s an ongoing investigation.

There's been almost zero cooperation from the AG's office.


Where is responsibility in the New Black Panthers case?

The same place the guys responsible for the economic disaster that threw million out of work. FREE! Those three guys really scare you huh? You tell me where they are, I haven’t seen them in years.


Totally unrelated to my question.


Where is the responsibility in throwing taxpayer money at failed green corporations, trying to pick winners and losers?

ONE company out of 145 that got loans and grants from the Energy Department? Come on.

I know you libs have trouble with math but come on.

Solyndra
Evergreen Solar Inc.
SpectraWatt
Mountain Plaza Inc.
Ener1
Beacon Power

And I'm sure I'm missing someone.


Where is the responsibility in trying to block Boeing from South Carolina?

It wasn’t blocked, there had to be guarantees that opening a new plant in Carolina didn’t lose jobs in Washington St. They both are running now.

Obama's National Labor Relations Board, sued Boeing to try and force Boeing to stop production in South Carolina. Fact.


Where is the responsibility dumping on 20,000 non-union Delphi employees?

They all will be paid, so what’s the beef?

The Treasury Dept. terminated the pensions of 20,000 non-union Delphi employees. Exactly what are they getting paid?


Where is the responsibility in the GSA?

You got some specifics in your straw man claim? Matter of fact, all your questions are straw arguments.

Help yourself.

GSA scandal. (https://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1ACGWCENUS363&q=gsa+scandal&oq=gsa+scandal&gs_l=igoogle.12...0.0.0.238.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.. .0.0...1ac.)


[b]If only you were as sloppy in managing your fantasy team. One can hope though!

It's going to take the majority of my team going on DL for me to lose. Better luck in football.

The lie is Reid said Romney didn't pay ANY taxes for 10 years.
You know he did all ten years?

You know he did all ten years?

The question is do you know he didn't?

The question is do you know he didn't?
All the more reason he should show us the real deal. If he wants to be in control of my money, I want to know how he handles his own.

All the more reason he should show us the real deal. If he wants to be in control of my money, I want to know how he handles his own.

Then the rumor-monger should do likewise. Next I expect you'll ask Romney when he stopped beating his wife.

Hello again, Steve:

Why do you protect him when there's a LONG list of real right wing dudes who want him to release his taxes too?? I mean, if this were only the loony left... But, it AIN'T.

You disavow the birther crap, but did you ever call for Obama to release his Harvard records, or his passport, or did you ever wonder WHY Obama is spending MILLIONS to keep his records SEALED??

It IS right wing stuff, after all... I'm not going to go back and look.

excon

Protect? I'm not protecting, I just don't care. If Romney is a tax cheat then let the IRS pursue it, that's their job. You guys all about distraction. Obama says he wants to have “important policy debate” but that seems to amount to discussing Romney's dog.

Carney Asked How Citing Romney Dog Is Part Of Lifting Dialogue

0S1qTnbm218

Hello again, Steve:

Democrats won't say BankofAmerica Center? Wait. What?

excon

What, you didn't know? They first called it "Panther Stadium" but didn't get away with that, then they just went to "the stadium (http://www.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeedpolitics/dnc-still-wont-call-it-bank-of-america-stadi)." So why won't they call it "Bank of America Stadium?" What are they trying to hide?

The question is do you know he didn't?

"trust but verify" - Ronald Reagan.

"trust but verify" - Ronald Reagan.

You keep quoting that as if it's relevant.

"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice....................you ain't gonna fool me twice!" - GWB

That should be relevant.

Irrelevant and inaccurate.


There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — — shame on you. Fool me — — You can't get fooled again. -GWB

Makes more sense my way, but that was George.

It was funnier George's way.

Can't argue that point.

Just thought we needed more facts for the debate.

HAHAHA,Ooops! - Paul Ryan's SUPPORT For The STIMULUS - Democratic Underground (http://www.democraticunderground.com/101749821)

More right wing hypocrisy, or a hidden agenda. I say BOTH!!

Just flip floppin along

Hey where are all those righties defending their golden boy?? Have they run out of rocks?

How many threads do you want to discuss this on, all of them?

How many threads do you want to discuss this on, all of them?
It's a very popular topic all over the internet and other medium. People seem to be shocked by this person.

You just can't resist the fallacies can you, that was an obvious appeal to emotion. The only reason anyone MIGHT be "shocked" by Ryan is because of fear mongering from the left.

You just can't resist the fallacies can you, that was an obvious appeal to emotion. The only reason anyone MIGHT be "shocked" by Ryan is because of fear mongering from the left.

Actually it has nothing to do with emotion but straight up facts: Google Trends (http://www.google.com/trends/)

It is part of the current most-searched-topics on Google in the US. It has just recently trended down.

Here's a partial list of the articles:
https://www.google.com/search?q=todd+akin&tbs=nws:1,cdr:1,cd_min:1/2004,cd_max:8/2012&nav=m&safe=active

Dude, we're discussing Paul Ryan, not Todd Akin. Akin's an idiot.

How many threads do you want to discuss this on, all of them?

They are all related and paint a true picture of what you guys really stand for. Its my duty to connect the dots, even the ones you don't want connected. You can't step to the forefront and be the leader of the free world by just blaming the other guy without tying failure to the agenda of the republicans.

I mean the rich guy is running on a platform that he isn't rich enough, and needs more welfare for him and his so called job creators.

How does he pay for it? His plan is on line,read it for yourself and answer the question. He chose a running mate who was part of the down fall of the economy and has voted to stop the economy and ruin the credit rating of the country.

The government is not a CHURCH, and its NOT a business.

Its job is not to promote GOD or cater to those who do, nor is it its job to promote corporate welfare for the rich and already rich. Its JOB is to promote the general welfare of ALL its people.

You want a weak government that lets churches and corporation write the laws we live under, I DON'T!!

So learn the difference between straw and brick before you buy the house next to a cliff. It may be a great view, but also a dangerous one.

They are all related and paint a true picture of what you guys really stand for. Its my duty to connect the dots, even the ones you don't want connected. You can't step to the forefront and be the leader of the free world by just blaming the other guy without tying failure to the agenda of the republicans.

I mean the rich guy is running on a platform that he isn't rich enough, and needs more welfare for him and his so called job creators.

How does he pay for it? His plan is on line,read it for yourself and answer the question. He chose a running mate who was part of the down fall of the economy and has voted to stop the economy and ruin the credit rating of the country.

The government is not a CHURCH, and its NOT a business.

Its job is not to promote GOD or cater to those who do, nor is it its job to promote corporate welfare for the rich and already rich. Its JOB is to promote the general welfare of ALL its people.

You want a weak government that lets churches and corporation write the laws we live under, I DON"T!!!

So learn the difference between straw and brick before you buy the house next to a cliff. It may be a great view, but also a dangerous one.

Excellent post sir. I applaud you.

They are all related and paint a true picture of what you guys really stand for. Its my duty to connect the dots, even the ones you don't want connected. You can't step to the forefront and be the leader of the free world by just blaming the other guy without tying failure to the agenda of the republicans.

That would be fine if you didn't fabricate the dots you're connecting.

You can't step to the forefront and be the leader of the free world by just blaming the other guy without tying failure to the agenda of the republicans.

and yet that has been the single governing policy of the Obots for 3 1/2 years.

The government is not a CHURCH, and yet the liberals pray at it's altar .

Sour grapes

and yet the liberals pray at it's altar .That doesn't even mean anything.

Hello again,

I'm confused... The Republican party PLATFORM has a plank that says NO abortion exception for rape or incest...

Then Reince Priebus said, (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/08/21/2962110/gop-platform-on-abortion-is-tougher.html)"This is the platform of the Republican Party; it's not the platform of Mitt Romney."

How is that, exactly??

excon

The platform has been voted on yet . Most times the party platform is finalized in the convention.In the Republican's case ;it will be a Monday vote .

It is also not unusual for the party standard bearer to not agree to many planks of the platform . Priebus is correct in saying it is the party's platform and not necessarily the candidates.

But Mr. Romney would hardly be the first Republican nominee at odds with his party's more absolute opposition to abortion. Just four years ago, the Republican Party adopted a platform with a similar plank seeking an unconditional ban on abortion, even though its nominee, Senator John McCain of Arizona, had urged the party in the past to allow certain exceptions.
G.O.P. Approves Strict Anti-abortion Language in Party Platform - NYTimes.com (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/21/g-o-p-approves-strict-anti-abortion-language-in-party-platform/)

Simularily ;in 2008 ,the Dems made concessions in their platform to appease the Clintonistas .
Compromise Platform Draft Goes to Democratic Convention - NYTimes.com (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/09/compromise-platform-draft-goes-to-democratic-convention/)

What is the point of having a party platform if the candidates are not signed on to it?

They will . But it will be the party platform ;and not something Romney dictates . I imagine there will be some kind of floor fight Monday with the Ronulans trying to introduce some of their planks.

They will . But it will be the party platform ;and not something Romney dictates . I imagine there will be some kind of floor fight Monday with the Ronulans trying to introduce some of their planks.

That's funny! Ronulans! So now we have the romulans and the ronulans working together, just like romulus and rhemus, but remember Rome wasn't built in a day

It always happens this way. In 2008 the Dem platform supported Gay marriage and their candidate didn't

Ryan supports his party platform already! The battle is half won on the right.