Hello:

I'm a Taxer.. I want to SEE the tax returns. Just show me the returns. Why won't he release them? What's Romney hiding?

excon

Hello:

I'm a Taxer.. I wanna SEE the tax returns. Just show me the returns. Why won't he release them? What's Romney hiding??

excon
Romney shouldn't release anything until Obama has released all his records... and say as much since that wasn't an issue with the dems

I bet you are a Bain'er too . But yes ,he should release more tax returns... then the Obots can point fingers and accuse him of being rich.

I bet you are a Bain'er too . But yes ,he should release more tax returns ...then the Obots can point fingers and accuse him of being rich.Hello tom:

Bain'er sounds too much like Boehner, so I AIN'T one of them. But, yeah. They can accuse him of being rich. But, since he's not denying it, they'll be out of gas... Or will they??

What Romney is worried about is that in SOME of those years, like GE before him, he paid NO taxes at all. Oh, I'm sure he did so LEGALLY, but it's not going to look good to the average American. How did George Will put it? He said it would be impolitic of Romney to have avoided taxes, and he's IN the politics business.

The overriding issue is that he MUST have known this was going to come up.. It did during his run for governor.. It came up during the primary's. But, his campaign looks flatfooted. They're STILL dancing around even after people like Bill Crystal said he should release them.. And, he's Going to release them. Until he does, he's taking a BIG hit.

How well can he manage the country if he can't manage his campaign?

excon

Nothing NEEDS to come out about Romney because all of Obama's secrecy hasn't been important to lefties the last 3.5 years.

Yes he is a clumsy campaigner . We already have a supurb campaigner running the country . Yeah that worked out for us .

I'll take a guy who is a fixer.. Who gave up a couple years from a very lucrative business to manage a crisis like the Olympics and salvaged it from the disaster it was destined to become without his intervention.

Btw . If the President is going to wallow in the mud then Romney has proven himself more than capable of playing that game too.

Yes ,as Bill Kristol said ;Romney should release them ;take a temporary hit ;and move on. It will not be an issue in the fall if he deals with it now .

So you are saying the country needs a manager but the problem isn't people managing it is obstruction

Romney is a rich guy who wants to be richer in a broke country. He is good at signing his name, and that's all Grover and the boys want. That's why he can't release any more info, because for one its none of you middle class poor peoples business. Its legal, and you wouldn't understand it any way you morons.

How dare you question a white man of means and breeding with your petty concerns. We should just do what he says and pay him, and be grateful such a busy man would save us from the great unwashed, and our own idiosy.

Hail Mitt. The masses you would rule are obviously ignorant of your great benevolence! Ungrateful b@stards!! They don't know who you are and how dare they question their bettors!

Just don't look up while he pees on your head.

We have had a President for 3 1/2 years ;and all you know about him is what he chose to reveal in his ghost written auto-biographies ;and a doctors note telling us he was in good health.
So you should stop the pretense of caring about the past of our Presidents when you voted for someone who's only claim to fame was a clever slogan.
Tell you what. Romney should reveal 1 years tax filing for every year Obama unseals his Illinois State Senate files .How about 1 years file for any of the following :
University of Chicago Law School scholarly articles
Harvard Law Review articles
Harvard Law School records
Columbia University records
Columbia University senior thesis
Occidental College records
All college financial aid received

Such sour gripes and so far from the election, what can we expect to hear as the great day approaches. Ding Dong the King is dead, all hail the King, or was that the witch, I forget which

I just have to laugh at anyone whining about Romney being a rich guy (wanting to be richer no less) after Lurch - the guy who parked his yacht in RI to avoid taxes on it - was their nominee just few years back.

It's also odd that WaPo managed to 'obtain' GWB's college transcripts but no one can 'obtain' anything from Obama's past other than his "choom gang" legacy.

we have had a President for 3 1/2 years ;and all you know about him is what he chose to reveal in his ghost written auto-biographies ;and a doctors note telling us he was in good health.
Well there's another big fat lie.
Obama has released 11 years of tax returns. (http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-many-years-of-tax-returns-obama-has-released-2012-7)

Did I write that he didn't release his taxes ? No . See my follow up replies . The truth is that the American people still don't know jack about the President's past beyond what he chooses to reveal to the compliant dinosaur media. The people of America voted for him on a vague promise of change and transformation . Well yeah he delivered . But just like the word "progress" ;not all progress or change is good .

did I write that he didn't release his taxes ? No .
No, you wrote

all you know about him is what he chose to reveal in his ghost written auto-biographies ;and a doctors note telling us he was in good healthwhich is a lie. Not sure why you are backpedalling now, are you saying two different things then? This thread is about releasing tax returns. You're all over the map. You say the american only know those two things then you admit that they know all about his financials since you admit he released 11 years of tax returns. Which is it?
Were you intentionally trying to mislead people?

No, you wrote
which is a lie. Not sure why you are backpedalling now, are you saying two different things then? This thread is about releasing tax returns. You're all over the map. You say the american only know those two things then you admit that they know all about his financials since you admit he released 11 years of tax returns. Which is it?
Were you intentionally trying to mislead people?

Lol No I stand by my statement that Americans either don't know ,or are willfully ignorant about the President . The biggest reason for that is that he has intentionally sealed the information from the public perusal .

He had no public record to speak of before elected .But he has one now ,and it is a record of arrogant incompetence. We may not know the Obama that was... but we are well aware of the President Obama that is... and what he is ;is a failure... He can't seal that record.

I just have to laugh at anyone whining about Romney being a rich guy (wanting to be richer no less) after Lurch - the guy who parked his yacht in RI to avoid taxes on it - was their nominee just few years back.

It's also odd that WaPo managed to 'obtain' GWB's college transcripts but no one can 'obtain' anything from Obama's past other than his "choom gang" legacy.

The big difference of course is that Romney earned his money . JF Kerry got his by marrying rich ladies.

lol No I stand by my statement that Americans either don't know ,or are willfully ignorant about the President . The biggest reason for that is that he has intentionally sealed the information from the public perusal .
Clearly that's wrong - he released 11 years of his tax forms. I'm not sure you're paying attention here or willfully ignoring that.

NK, clearly you're having comprehension issues.

NK, clearly you're having comprehension issues.No sir, it is yourself and your bromance partner. :-) He continuously ignores the facts and makes some emotional plea that "we don't know him" when clearly he has released more personal tax info than the Romulan.

Romulan! I like it. His taxes means nothing.. All they show is that Obama is someone who thinks government should do charity so that cheap people don't have to .

I'm talking about real disclosure so we can get to see the heart and soul of the most opaque President we have had in my lifetime.

Clearly NK isn't going for the right wing BS, and neither are SOME Americans. When righties talk of Americans they would have you believe that everyone agrees with them, and they are always correct, and have no problem dismissing anything that goes against their own thinking.

The people spoke before, and see that despite the noise on the right, they are not so willing to just dump this president for some rich guy they have nothing to judge him by. For sure repubs love to sit on the sideline, booing yet refuse to get in the game because they know they are wrong because they lie to cover the true facts about the economy, the state of the country, and their own obstruction in their quest to allow the lying job creators to extract more wealth and protect them from the boogy man.

They cannot, and will not,answer the real questions of why fellow right wing conservatives are calling for Romney to release more tax information.

Both sides agree he got some 'splaining to do. It's a big fat lie that its JUST the left.

His taxes means nothing .. All they show is that Obama is someone who thinks government should do charity so that cheap people don't have to .Where does it show that in his tax returns?

No sir, it is yourself and your bromance partner. :-) He continuously ignores the facts and makes some emotional plea that "we don't know him" when clearly he has released more personal tax info than the Romulan.

Bromance? Dude, get a grip with reality.

Obama is the most thoroughly unvetted and secretive president in my lifetime. That's a fact minus emotion and your hissy fits springing from your overly literal interpretation coupled with a lifetime of tax returns isn't going to change that. Tom was absolutely correct in his assessment.

All college financial aid receivedHello again, tom:

I'm particularly interested in whether he sits to pee. Bwa, ha ha ha.

excon

lThe biggest reason for that is that he has intentionally sealed the information from the public perusal . Hello tom:

Can you show me where he did that?? Or did you hear about it from Hannity?? Look. If you wanted to see my Hallet School record, and they didn't give it to you, that's on Hallet.. I can't control what they release or what they don't. Now, I'm not the president, but apparently Obama sealed these records when he was just a schmuck.. Schmucks can't seal records... They just can't..

Anyway, I'll wait to see what you come up with...

excon

Bromance? Dude, get a grip with reality.

Obama is the most thoroughly unvetted and secretive president in my lifetime. That's a fact minus emotion and your hissy fits springing from your overly literal interpretation coupled with a lifetime of tax returns isn't going to change that. Tom was absolutely correct in his assessment.Of course you think he is, you almost used his words verbatim: https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/taxers-683357-2.html#post3198804
LOL.

How did someone unvetted get through the presidential process? Answer: he/she doesn't. Stir your tempest in a teapot and get all outraged!

My college and grad schools will not release my records to anyone. In fact, they won't give out any of my personal contact information to anyone, even to another alumnus. President Obama didn't have to seal anything.

Dude, all one need to is look at your idea of what verbatim is and it's pretty clear to all that you have comprehension issues.

As for your summary, that's a willful ignorance of historical fact.

Hello again,

What's worse? That he didn't pay taxes, or that he won't release the returns??

At THIS point, I'd say it's his REFUSAL. I think it's FINISHING him.

excon

But then, no one really cares about Romney. He is just a placeholder. People won't be voting for Romney, but will be voting Republican to get rid of the Democrat in office.

I think its funny they call our guy opaque, but don't care if their guy is too! Hypocrisy, or a double standard... OR BOTH!

Some leader, that refuses to clarify.

Breaking news... a part of the President revealed.. He likes thin mint Girl Scout Cookies!!

He could release to the public his transcripts any time he wants to .
Here is how he could get his Harvard records :
Transcript Requests (http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/registrar/transcripts/index.html)

No one said he couldn't get them. Of what importance are they? If he got all As and B's, then the narrative will become that he cheated or paid someone to take his exams and write his papers. Even though the State of Hawaii issued his long-form birth certificate, there are still those who say it was recently manufactured and those birth announcements in the newspapers back then were deliberately put in to help people in 2012 prove a future president is a native-born American.

Call it intellectual curiousity . Don't you want to read any scholarship from his days as Harvard Review Editor ? Or anything he published as a Law Professor at Chitown U.
I don't give a rat's a$$ about his grades . I want to know what was the purpose of sealing 8 years of work in the Illinois Senate ? All I know from the official Illinois record is that he was quite unremarkable.

"I think that it's important for any candidate in public office to be as transparent as possible, to let people know who we are, what we stand for, and you know, I think that this is just carrying on a tradition that has existed throughout the modern presidency." (Barack Obama ) bwaaaahaaaaahaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaa!!

I think its funny they call our guy opaque, but don't care if their guy is too! Hypocracy, or a double standard......................OR BOTH!

Some leader, that refuses to clarify.

If you want Romney's tax records I have no problem with that because I don't care if the president is rich or not. In fact I think one that's been successful in the private sector is much more qualified than a virtually unknown community organizer. But I've made reference to Obama's empty, pompous claims of transparency for years and he's been anything but transparent.

So from my end all you have is Obama's hypocrisy (the correct spelling, where's our language monitor when a liberal misspells a word) and his double standard.

>from the site editor: I refrain from editing all the misspellings on the Current Events board.<

>from the site editor: I refrain from editing all the misspellings on the Current Events board.<That would be Wondergirl: Ask Me Help Desk - View Profile: Wondergirl (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/wondergirl.html)

Call it intellectual curiousity . Don't you want to read any scholarship from his days as Harvard Review Editor Hello again, tom:

I want Obama to release whatever documents you wanted George W. Bush to release... I have a feeling, you weren't so intellectually curious about him. So, there's something else going on here..

We ALL know what it is. You guys just can't get over the fact that we have a BLACK president... It bugs you SOOOO badly that you're looking for some PROOF - ANY proof - that a black man STILL isn't equal to a white guy... You're looking for vindication... It ain't there. Bummer for you old white guys.

excon

It would be a waste of time to try to defend myself from your constant charge of racism. As you must know there are plenty of good QUALIFIED Black candidates I'd love to see as President. They are the ones the left routinely disparages with stereotypical slurs.

That would be Wondergirl: Ask Me Help Desk - View Profile: Wondergirl (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/wondergirl.html)

No sir, I know who I'm referring to and that would be you (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/voter-id-suppression-678733-8.html#post3190394).

We ALL know what it is. You guys just can't get over the fact that we have a BLACK president... It bugs you SOOOO badly that you're looking for some PROOF - ANY proof - that a black man STILL isn't equal to a white guy... You're looking for vindication... It ain't there. Bummer for you old white guys.

excon

Wow, you really have run out of arguments. What an outrageously stupid and cowardly claim, not to mention one you have no chance at proving.

not to mention one you have no chance at proving.Hello again, Steve:

Show me where you demanded the release of George W. Bush's school records - or Clinton's...

Nuff said!

excon

No proof needed when all you guys do is criticize everything about the guy. Just like your guy Romney, all bad but no solutions. Now if you want to stop hollering and get to facts, Romney's vision for America is on line. Tell me how they affect YOU, and your agenda.

Hello again, Steve:

Show me where you demanded the release of George W. Bush's school records - or Clinton's...

Nuff said!

excon

No, not 'nuff said. First of all I never demanded the release of Obama's transcripts.

Second of all, equating the desire to know why our president, who boasted repeatedly of the transparency he would bring, with racism is an outrageously stupid, cowardly, invalid argument. Let me add intellectually lazy and not worthy of a response to that list, too.

Enough of this racist bullsh*t.

No proof needed when all you guys do is criticize everything about the guy.

When did blacks become above criticism? It certainly didn't work that way during Bush's much less of a white man's club administration. In fact, the left took great pleasure in demeaning blacks then, but I bet these leftists weren't racists were they?

No sir, I know who I'm referring to and that would be you (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/voter-id-suppression-678733-8.html#post3190394).

Holy thin-skinned Batman! You cannot take any criticism at all LOL! I'm now the site editor because I showed you the correct spelling of one word that you routinely misspelled? Boy, your teachers must have had a hate on for you (assuming you went to school).

Holy thin-skinned Batman! You cannot take any criticism at all LOL! I'm now the site editor because I showed you the correct spelling of one word that you routinely misspelled? Boy, your teachers must have had a hate on for you (assuming you went to school).

Holy out of touch with reality Batman! I don't routinely misspell anything. Get a grip on reality, dude and maybe then you can add something useful to the discussion instead of playing language monitor and drama queen.

I don't routinely misspell anything.
Yes, that word. Duh.

Yes, that word. Duh.

And which word would that be?

Ah crap, you got me, it's tom's spelling of the word you posted. I get you guys mixed up all the time.

No, you just don't pay attention.

And yes I went to school . I am the product of the progressive state education system of New York. The reason you see misspelled words from me is I don't have the time or the inclination to edit my responses... and I have a mild case of dyslexia that is getting worse as I grow older . No need to waste your or my time trying to correct it .

Now if it's all the same ;I'd rather deal with the substance of the issue posted .

So where were we ? Oh yeah.. I did not have time to request Bush's transcripts before they were leaked to the compliant press... that wasted no time in publishing them . Now how were they leaked when the only way someone can get Harvard records is if the alumni requests it ? Could it be that there was a double standard ?

How is it that Obama could become editor of the Harvard Review if he was unpublished ? Was he a spelling monitor ?

[QUOTE=tomder55;3199455]... and I have a mild case of dyslexia that is getting worse as I grow older . No need to waste your or my time trying to correct it .

QUOTE]

No rose colour glasses eh? Nice to know you have faults just like the rest of us Tom I have dyslexic fingers myself, they insist on mistyping certain words but I do try to correct it just so you find it intelligable. As to spelling, your friend should realise there are different paths to the same place, heaven forbid they went to China where a word can be spelled one way and sounded several different ways

How long has it been since the Democrat controlled Senate passed a budget? 3 years? Or is it 4 now? They can't bother to take that up because they obviously have more pressing issues of national interest (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/democrats-apply-legislative-pressure-on-mitt-romney-to-release-more-tax-returns/2012/07/18/gJQAR5HttW_blog.html), like passing a "Romney bill."

Good thing there are no real problems facing the country right now, eh?

I want to see San Fran Nan's tax returns . I want to see Jay Rockefeller's tax returns.. What a bunch of phonies ! Instead of reforming the tax code ;they want to see where legal deductions were taken ? What is the point of that ?

Good thing there are no real problems facing the country right now, eh? Well you won't find them in the Current Events board on AMHD.

How long has it been since the Democrat controlled Senate passed a budget? 3 years? Or is it 4 now? They can't bother to take that up because they obviously have more pressing issues of national interest (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/2chambers/post/democrats-apply-legislative-pressure-on-mitt-romney-to-release-more-tax-returns/2012/07/18/gJQAR5HttW_blog.html), like passing a "Romney bill."

Good thing there are no real problems facing the country right now, eh?

As long as you have republican senators obstructing, and filibustering at a record pace hardly anything passes in the Senate. That's the problem!

You mean obstructing like announcing virtually every House passed bill as DOA in the Democrat controlled Senate?

As long as you have republican senators obstructing, and filibustering at a record pace hardly anything passes in the Senate. Thats the problem!

Perhaps if they would actually put a House passed budget to a vote then one could pass the do-nothing Senate .

Hello again,

Looks like the adult needs to take control again...

So, Romney ISN'T going to release 'em. He's made a calculated decision that NOT releasing them will do LESS harm than releasing them would. He said as much.. He KNOWS the Democrats are going to pick through it, and DISTORT it..

Even in the midst of this refusal, his poll numbers didn't drop. Do you think he can get away with NOT releasing them, and STILL have a shot at winning?

excon

Do you think he can get away with NOT releasing them, and STILL have a shot at winning?
Dear excon:

It could be my crazy Uncle Wally running for president on the Republican ticket. The candidate doesn't matter. Romney doesn't matter. But you've already said (and we all know) what really does matter for the Republicans.

WG

Yes because no body cares... what do you think ;that there is something illegal in a tax return ? Here we have the same people who defend Warren Buffet's distortions and manipulation of his taxes ;while at the same time spewing his hypocricies about not paying enough ,getting their panties in a knot over Romney . Lol

what do you think ;that there is something illegal in a tax return ?Hello again, tom:

Glad you asked... Nahhh.. His returns are perfectly legal, of course.. He's running for president, for Pete's sake. But, there are probably a couple of years where he didn't pay any taxes at all...

That won't make him look good. In fact, I think it'll END it for him. THAT'S why I want them released..

excon

Well that would be illegal no ? Even if he's Warren Buffet there is a minimal amt of money the law requires that is wage compensation. I know... because Buffet goes out of his way to make sure his wage is minimum required while the bulk of his compensation is controlled cap gains. Anyway ,that is pure speculation on your part .

well that would be illegal no ? Hello again, tom:

No. Not at all.. There are a jillion different ways in which the tax code can be manipulated to ones advantage. Plus, because of the bank secrecy in the Caymans, whatever Romney WANTS to say about his returns CAN'T be verified... Now, I'm not saying he did lie. I'm only saying it can't be checked. Plus, there's NO industry in the Caymans OTHER than banking, and the only reason to have accounts there is bank secrecy...

But, to your question. He makes PLENTY of income off his investments and doesn't NEED, and isn't required to HAVE "income" from employment.. And, that income can be sheltered in myriad ways, all of them legal.. My guess is his wife's dressage horse is one big tax shelter...

Let me suggest this... The tax code, as it refers to you and me, and the deductions WE'D take, is handled in the first 500 pages of the tax code.. Then there's an additional 50,000 pages dealing with corporations and what kind of tax breaks THEY get...

So, like GE before him, it's absolutely possible for a wealthy person to pay NO taxes at all.

excon

Mitt Romney: Cayman Islands Accounts Used By Foreign Investors To 'Not Be Subject To' U.S. Taxes (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/mitt-romney-cayman-islands_n_1683891.html)

If he helps others make money here without paying taxes, he sure must be doing it for himself too!

Reagan said "Trust but verify", Nixon said "I am not a crook!".

For all I know he launders dope money from around the world!

He KNOWS the Democrats are gonna pick through it, and DISTORT it..

Exactly. If Obama had something to run on besides (hypocritical) class warfare and the politics of destruction it might be different.

Mitt Romney: Cayman Islands Accounts Used By Foreign Investors To 'Not Be Subject To' U.S. Taxes (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/18/mitt-romney-cayman-islands_n_1683891.html)

You say that as if it's a bad thing. Were you that hot and bothered about Kerry parking his yacht in RI to avoid paying taxes to the state he represents?

I mean really, Tal, if I had that much money I'd do the same thing and I bet you would, too. You whine all day about the influence of corporate money, what idiot would leave his fortune where the feds can confiscate it to buy themselves more power?


For all I know he launders dope money from around the world!


So is that the next talking point since the one about Sheldon Adelson funding campaigns with Chinese prostitution money backfired?

Memo to Dem press secretary: Probably best not to imply GOP billionaire is a pimp (http://news.investors.com/article/618537/201207180822/sheldon-adelsons-republican-donations-are-called-chinese-prostitution-money.htm)

I'm sure if Romney releases more returns they'll be calling him a pimp, too since they have nothing else to run on.

Hello again,

Years ago, when Ross Perot was running for president, he addressed the NAACP convention. Somewhere in his remarks was a "you people". Perot had NO idea how offensive that was...

Yesterday, when asked WHY Romney doesn't release his tax returns, I got called "you people" (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78711.html)by Ann Romney.. Her response was, "We've given all 'YOU PEOPLE' need"

No, Ann. You're not the boss of us. WE'LL tell YOU what we need!

excon

Yes Ex the neuvo rich have a tendency to look down their noses at the peons

That's why Mitt is running to keep his tax cuts, and get even more tax cuts and loop holes while he takes your job to China.

Bain Capital is closing an Illinois plant and shipping jobs to China - National economic policy | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/article/bain-capital-is-closing-an-illinois-plant-and-shipping-jobs-to-china)

Daily Kos: Romney and Bain profited from massive Medicare Fraud (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/18/1111458/-Romney-and-Bain-profited-from-massive-Medicare-Fraud)


1988: Damon begins a systemic practice of fraud. The government estimates later that the total cost to taxpayers of this fraud is around $40,000,000

1990: Bain Capital (CEO Mitt Romney) buys a minority stake in Damon. Mitt takes a seat on the board of directors

1990 to 1993: Mitt serves on the board of directors, earning ~$10,000 per year for doing so. He is on the company's "Strategic Planning" committee

1992: Romney said that [Damon's then-CEO Robert] Rosen told the board in about 1992 'that all current practices at the company were now in conformity with government regulations and that in the past there may have been practices which would not be deemed appropriate.

1993: Damon is taken over by Corning, with Mitt Romney voting in favor of the acquisition

1993: Corning immediately closes Damon's Massachusetts plant and lays off 115 workers

1993: Corning uncovers the fraud and alerts authorities. The SEC filings made by Damon prior to the acquisition make no mention of any potential earnings write-downs or legal problems

1993: Mitt Romney's share of Bain's profit from the Damon investment: $473,000

1993: Bain's profit from its investment in Damon: $7,400,000, which represented a tripling of the initial investment

1994: Running for Senator, Mitt Romney says:
I'm proud of the small part I played in the growth of Damon,' Romney said yesterday. 'It's something that Ted Kennedy doesn't have a clue about – creating real jobs in the private sector.

Seems he is using the same lines over again. Didn't work before, I doubt it works now. You guys hope it does.

All seems a little ancient Tal even though I get the point a leopard doesn't change his spots.
If you elect Romney you will get the President you deserve and the Nixon era might rise again. If you elect Obama, you will get the President you already have

Hello again,

Years ago, when Ross Perot was running for president, he addressed the NAACP convention. Somewhere in his remarks was a "you people". Perot had NO idea how offensive that was...

Yesterday, when asked WHY Romney doesn't release his tax returns, I got called "you people" (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78711.html)by Ann Romney.. Her response was, "We've given all 'YOU PEOPLE' need"

No, Ann. You're not the boss of us. WE'LL tell YOU what we need!

excon

First she's attacked for riding horses as part of her MS therapy and now this, you guys have no shame. This was debunked by ABC (http://abcnews.go.com/m/blogEntry?id=16815749) long before you posted it.

Hello Steve:

More right wing, you didn't hear what you heard.. Well, Dude! I DID hear what I heard.

excon

Hello again,

Years ago, when Ross Perot was running for president, he addressed the NAACP convention. Somewhere in his remarks was a "you people". Perot had NO idea how offensive that was...

Yesterday, when asked WHY Romney doesn't release his tax returns, I got called "you people" (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0712/78711.html)by Ann Romney.. Her response was, "We've given all 'YOU PEOPLE' need"

No, Ann. You're not the boss of us. WE'LL tell YOU what we need!

excon

I was wondering where your post about this went . I responded ;but the posting disappeared .
Truth is that she did not say that .If you listen to the tape and the official ABC transcript you won't find it.

Right, that right wing ABC that did the interview has no business debunking their own stuff. Do you hear yourself?

The taxers have jumped off the deep end, with the highest ranking Senate Democrat taking the lead.


Harry Reid: Bain Investor Told Me That Mitt Romney 'Didn't Pay Any Taxes For 10 Years'
(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/31/harry-reid-romney-taxes_n_1724027.html?1343764012)
"His poor father must be so embarrassed about his son," Reid said, in reference to George Romney's standard-setting decision to turn over 12 years of tax returns when he ran for president in the late 1960s.

Saying he had "no problem with somebody being really, really wealthy," Reid sat up in his chair a bit before stirring the pot further. A month or so ago, he said, a person who had invested with Bain Capital called his office.

"Harry, he didn't pay any taxes for 10 years," Reid recounted the person as saying.

"He didn't pay taxes for 10 years! Now, do I know that that's true? Well, I'm not certain," said Reid. "But obviously he can't release those tax returns. How would it look?

"You guys have said his wealth is $250 million," Reid went on. "Not a chance in the world. It's a lot more than that. I mean, you do pretty well if you don't pay taxes for 10 years when you're making millions and millions of dollars."

And Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya... or so I heard somewhere from somebody.

And Obama is a Muslim born in Kenya...or so I heard somewhere from somebody.Hello again, Steve:

Yeah, I heard it too.. But Obama SHOWED his birth certificate to allay your fears... All Romney has to do is show his tax returns. Boy, can he make Harry Reid look like a fool? He's going to do it right?

Yeah, sure.

excon

First of all, I had no fears, I'm not a birther - but then you already KNOW that. Second of all, the birthers were on the fringe. This is - as already purposely noted - the highest ranking Senate Democrat starting a conspiracy theory. So go ahead, mock the fringe but not your Senate leader.

Oh, and 3 years after Romney is elected maybe he'll release the returns.

So go ahead, mock the fringe but not your Senate leader.Hello again, Steve:

Here's the difference... I don't know WHY you can't seem to make the relevant distinctions. First off, Obama DID release his birth certificate. It's just that nobody believed him. After all, why would you?? So, I'd mock ANYBODY who thought Obama was LYING...

Secondly, I want Romney to release his tax returns because I KNOW, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they'll END his presidential bid. I suspect Harry Reid knows it too.

After all, it's his JOB to defeat Romney, just like it's Mitch McConnell's job to make sure Obama is a "one term president. If you mocked McConnell over that comment, I missed it.

excon

You're preaching to me about making distinctions and can't distinguish between stating a goal and starting a rumor??

You're preaching to me about making distinctions and can't distinguish between stating a goal and starting a rumor???Hello again, Steve:

Let me see... In order to pursue his goal, one guy BLOCKS everything Obama tries, and doesn't CARE that doing so RUINED the country's credit rating, and cost the taxpayers MILLIONS.. You think THAT guy is wonderful..

The OTHER guy gave an interview to a newspaper. He didn't harm the country at all. Good for Harry Reid.

excon

Your side does it your way, my side does it our way, and it is OUR turn, so duck or catch the pie in the face.

You will know when we throw rocks like you guys do. They aren't so tasty.

If you two don't beat all. You sit here on these boards day after day swerving and weaving and bobbing and otherwise contradicting yourselves about the very things you've been preaching against. Perhaps you could both use a chiropractor.

Dingy Harry doubled down... Romney is guilty until proven innocent (http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/08/reid-doubles-down-on-tax-claims-130846.html?hp=l1).


“I am not basing this on some figment of my imagination,” Reid said in a telephone call with Nevada reporters. “I have had a number of people tell me that.”

Asked to elaborate on his sources, Reid declined. “No, that’s the best you’re going to get from me.”

“I don’t think the burden should be on me,” Reid said. “The burden should be on him. He’s the one I’ve alleged has not paid any taxes. Why didn’t he release his tax returns?”

Welcome to the new progressive America, where a businessman can't build it himself without government benevolence, can't believe in marriage without threat of government force, can't refuse to violate his conscience by buying abortifacients and contraceptives for his employees, and Senators can accuse you of federal crimes based on a rumor and put the burden of proof on you.

...and Senators can accuse you of federal crimes ...What federal crimes did he accused him of?

Correction, accused him of not paying taxes for 10 years. I had tax evasion on my mind. See, I admit when I make a mistake.

I still think its worth seeing if "paying what he legally was supposed to" means he paid nothing at all on his millions, see as how he is in the business of tax shelters and shellcompanies to hide investments for himself and other.

Its especially crucial since he is pushing for an even BIGGER tax cut for himself and other elite rich guys, while I have to pay for it. Me my kids,and grand kids.

Romney Tax Plan on Table. Debt Collapses Table. - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-02/romney-tax-plan-on-table-debt-collapses-table-.html)

Oh come on Tal, Reid is being an a$$ plain and simple.

Yes he is, but his point is well taken... a rich guy for president that has paid no taxes and is giving himself a bigger one? Come on Speech, even you have to question that one. You trust his word, but I would like some VERIFICATION of the facts.

How is that wrong? And what part of his tax plan sounds good to YOU? Or is it more liberal mischief?

SIDE NOTE/ The Cowboys open up their training camp yesterday in Irving. Its free, grab your straw hat, and lets go!!

ARE YOU READY FOR SOME FOOTBALL???

No sir, I did NOT fall for the birther crap and I sm not going to humor the Democratic Senate Majority Leader over an anonymous rumor. This is one one of those things we should both be able to agree on so the burden is on you to either take a stand on what's right or well, be a hypocrite.

the burden is on you to either take a stand on what's right or well, be a hypocrite.Hello again, Steve:

Let's review... We're talking about McConnell here, who wants to win an election SO badly, that he single handedly RUINED our credit rating, and cost our taxpayers MILLIONS of $$$'s.

And, on the other hand we have a Senate Majority leader who wants to win an election SO badly, that he's willing to tell a lie..

Here's my stand on what's RIGHT... Leader Reid is. It ain't even close.

excon

You lost me! What do you want from me? I have always wanted more facts from Mr.Romney. More verification before Harry Reid came out with his allegation. I have said so many times in this and other threads. Should I back down from that now?

So both of you are now huge fans of conspiracy theories started by rumors. Obama is a Socialist Muslim from Kenya who sucked at Harvard. His birth certificate is a fake. And Harry Reid has been in a relationship with Barney Frank for years.

I'm the one that alleged this so the burden of proof is on them.

http://www.investors.com/image/RAMFNLclr-080312-brainless-.jpg.cms

Oh dear, I see we've sunk down to the level again.

But ours not only have a point, they're actually funny.

But ours not only have a point, they're actually funny.
*startled* Harry Reid? I thought it was a cartoon of someone else.

*startled* Harry Reid? I thought it was a cartoon of someone else.

I would have thought the name "Harry Reid" above it might have been a good clue.

Lets get back to facts that we have or are you intentionally ducking the plan that Romney has ONLINE.

What parts do YOU like? Need a link?

Tax (http://www.mittromney.com/issues/tax)

Lets get back to facts that we have or are you intentionally ducking the plan that Romney has ONLINE.

What parts do YOU like? Need a link?

Tax (http://www.mittromney.com/issues/tax)

Facts? Ha ha ha... Reid is blowing rumors out his a$$ and you want to talk facts?? What facts does he have?? How many tax returns has he released? Why is his rumor more substantial than mine?? He's gay, prove me wrong.

He's gay, prove me wrong.Hello again, Steve:

So, you get pissed that Reid is spreading rumors, but you were FINE with the LIE that is STILL circulating about "you didn't build that"..

Why don't you slam that? It's an OUT and OUT lie. When are YOU going to do the right thing?

IF Reid is lying, all Romney has to do is show us the returns, and then Reid will BE the fool he LOOKS like. Wonder WHY he doesn't do that...

excon

Facts? Ha ha ha...Reid is blowing rumors out his a$$ and you want to talk facts??? What facts does he have??? How many tax returns has he released? Why is his rumor more substantial than mine??? He's gay, prove me wrong.

Lets get this straight, you prefer stuff that people blow out their a$$ to facts?? DUDE!?

Well so much for the right having discussions based on facts, it's all feelings and emotions.

Hello again, Steve:

So, you get pissed that Reid is spreading rumors, but you were FINE with the LIE that is STILL circulating about "you didn't build that"..

Why don't you slam that? It's an OUT and OUT lie. When are YOU gonna do the right thing?

IF Reid is lying, all Romney has to do is show us the returns, and then Reid will BE the fool he LOOKS like. Wonder WHY he doesn't do that...

excon

Why did Obama wait so long to release his BC? Why won't he release his Harvard transcripts? Why doesn't Reid release his tax returns? You have a double standard, ex.

Well so much for the right having discussions based on facts, it's all feelings and emotions.

They're siding with a rumor and I'm the one that's abandoned facts? Bwa ha ha ha!

They're siding with a rumor and I'm the one that's abandoned facts? Bwa ha ha ha!Tal asked you here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/taxers-683357-10.html#post3221716) to comment on the facts of a matter but you totally dismissed him and would rather call someone gay.

Lets get this straight, you prefer stuff that people blow out their a$$ to facts??? DUDE!!!!!!??

Dude, I'm not the one that votes for liberals.

Dude, I'm not the one that votes for liberals.

That made no sense and was totally irrelevant. Do you have anything substantial to add?

Under Obama, a Record Decline in Government Jobs - NYTimes.com (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/06/under-obama-a-record-decline-in-government-jobs/)

PolitiFact | Paul Krugman says government jobs have fallen by half million since January 2009 (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/11/paul-krugman/paul-krugman-says-government-jobs-have-fallen-half/)

Obama has been shrinking government since he got here, you would think the Tea Party would be happy about that. It should be noted that previous republican presidents lowered the uneployment rate by making more government jobs.

Government Cutbacks Separate This Expansion From Others - Real Time Economics - WSJ (http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2012/07/31/government-cutbacks-separate-this-expansion-from-others/)

And reined in regulations

Obama Wrote 5% Fewer Rules Than Bush While Costing Business - Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-25/obama-wrote-5-fewer-rules-than-bush-while-costing-business.html)

Everything the Tea Party and the Republicans say they wanted. Yet all we get is gloom, doom, and more hollering,and a bunch of BS about liberals.

And they get offended when we call them loony! If they weren't distracted by what comes from a guys butt, or a females vagina, you think we could be doing better?

Of course we could.

Tal asked you here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/taxers-683357-10.html#post3221716) to comment on the facts of a matter but you totally dismissed him and would rather call someone gay.

Do you even have a clue?

Under Obama, a Record Decline in Government Jobs - NYTimes.com (http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/06/under-obama-a-record-decline-in-government-jobs/)

Um, you sure you want to use this as a measure of accomplishment?

From your source:


That record, which will seem a dubious distinction to public-sector employees, is largely a result not of federal policy but of shrinking state governments.

...

But if teacher employment is the measure, the cuts have been greater under Mr. Obama. Education jobs at the local level are down 3 percent under Mr. Obama, compared to 2.1 percent in the early Reagan years.

...

Federal employment fell 1.3 percent in 2011, but for the three years it is up 1.3 percent, while the total fell by the same amount in Mr. Reagan’s first three years.


Smaller state governments, fewer teachers and more federal workers. Yep, that's a record Obama should be running on.

"You didn't build that..." -Barack Hussein Obama, 2012Hello again, Steve:

So, you love that LIE so much, that you put it in your signature, huh?? When are you going to start acting RIGHT?

Excon

Hello again, Steve:

So, you love that LIE so much, that you put it in your signature, huh??? When are you gonna start acting RIGHT?

excon

Apparently you didn't read the first quote. It all makes perfect sense, no lie necessary.

P.S. I still want to know if you love rumors or hate them. Or does it just depend on who it hurts?

P.S. I still wanna know if you love rumors or hate them. Or does it just depend on who it hurts?Hello again, Steve:

Refer me to where you denounced the rumors of Obama's birth certificate. I'll wait.

excon

Um, you sure you want to use this as a measure of accomplishment?

From your source:

Smaller state governments, fewer teachers and more federal workers. Yep, that's a record Obama should be running on.

What you think I was going to not wants facts, no matter who they favored??

But that's what you said you wanted,a smaller government! Still not happy huh? Okay lets shrink it some more. Let me know when it's the right size.

What you think I was going to not wants facts, no matter who they favored???

But thats what you said you wanted,a smaller government! Still not happy huh? Okay lets shrink it some more. Let me know when its the right size.

You tell me when Obama shrinks the size and scope of the federal government.

Hello again, Steve:

Refer me to where you denounced the rumors of Obama's birth certificate. I'll wait.

excon

Just this once. For starters...

Here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/apology-tours-back-back-377719-2.html#post1883596)
Here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/obama-black-396407-8.html#post1991364)
Here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/birthers-update-409016.html#post2049086)
Here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/calling-all-internet-researchers-412150.html#post2066145)
Here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/birthers-come-out-572250.html#post2781189)

And at least twice in this thread.

Here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/taxers-683357-8.html#post3218575)
Here (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/taxers-683357-10.html#post3220763)

Never question me on it again, please.

And by the way, you should be reminded AGAIN it was Hillary supporters that started the birther nonsense (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/birthers-come-out-572250-9.html#post2786876), not conservatives.

Your turn.

Apparently you didn't read the first quote. It all makes perfect sense, no lie necessary.


Steve, what ever you have here it is not good. You are making out that Addams supports the loss of personal achievement and that the individual should be content to realize his activity within the many.

If you provided the whole quote and not just a small part of it you would realized that Addams is not actually arguing for this position.

Here is the full quote:

When the entire moral energy of the individual goes into the cultivation of personal integrity, we all know how unlovely the result may become, the character is upright, of course, but too coated over with the result of its own endeavor to. In this effort toward higher morality in our social relations, we must demand that the individual shall be willing to lose the sense of personal achievement, and shall be content to realize his activity in connection with the activity of the many.

It was the role of women partaking in charity work during this time, to develop the moral character of the poor. What Addams is saying is that this effort is resulting in an opposite outcome. Rather than developing individualism it is actually developing the wrong type of individualism. [edit]

Tut

Tut, reading people like Addams gives me a headache... but I again stand by my quote.

It's from "Democracy and Social Ethics" in the chapter titled "Political Reform" in which you also find quotes such as this:


Upon this foundation it ought not to be difficult to build a structure of civic virtue. It is only necessary to make it clear to the voter that his individual needs are common needs that is public needs and that they can only be legitimately supplied for him when they are supplied for all. If we believe that the individual struggle for life may widen into a struggle for the lives of all surely the demand of an individual for decency and comfort for a chance to work and obtain the fulness of life may be widened until it gradually embraces all the members of the community and rises into a sense of the common weal.

I see nothing in what I've read that hints at anything about "women partaking in charity work during this time period, to develop the moral character of the poor." Addams is pushing the same progressive, collectivist philosophy as our president.

Tut, reading people like Addams gives me a headache...but I again stand by my quote.

It's from "Democracy and Social Ethics" in the chapter titled "Political Reform" in which you also find quotes such as this:



This chapter is about political corruption by officials who see themselves as outside of the life of the people they serve. She is talking about specific examples she has encountered while she was administering to the poor. It is the corrupt official that attracts the votes of the middle class. It is the middle class people and the corrupt politicians who are exhibiting a collective unity. They posses both a collective unity and a sense of individuality; something the poor lack. In other words the poor see themselves as alienated from this process. She believes that the answer lies in the ability of the poor to become part of that wider system. This can be achieved by them developing a collective identity. It is this collective identity that will eventually allow for a genuine social cohesion. Hence the quotes you give.

That's how I read it. Do you read the chapter differently?

Tut

Ok Tut, in the wider context a fair enough interpretation. It really changes nothing in my use of the two quotes, it still fits perfectly in my opinion as part of what shaped Obama's worldview and led to his "you didn't build that" speech. He just failed to present it in the progressive code words that mask his ideology.

Ok Tut, in the wider context a fair enough interpretation. It really changes nothing in my use of the two quotes, it still fits perfectly in my opinion as part of what shaped Obama's worldview and led to his "you didn't build that" speech. He just failed to present it in the progressive code words that mask his ideology.


With all due respects it is not really up to you to decide the best way to use other people's quotes.
Provided we are talking about fairness to the individuals involved. That is, if we try and give an accurate account of their position.

The whole idea of quoting out of context is to make the quotes fit into what you really want these people to say. Your first signature quote would indeed achieve that end.

Tut

With all due respect I believe it is Obama that has twisted Addams' philosophy to suit his agenda. I'm just pointing out his unintentional candor.

With all due respect I believe it is Obama that has twisted Addams' philosophy to suit his agenda. I'm just pointing out his unintentional candor.Hello again, Steve:

It's time to bring you back to Earth. Although you've never said it out loud, I believe you've bought the Tea Party "agenda" fully and absolutely.. Although you don't use the words, and you even objected when I thought you did, but you clearly think Obama is a commie. Ok, maybe just a socialist/collectivist..

But, it's as much nonsense as your belief that since Obama only passed ONE gun law, and that was to STRENGTHEN gun rights, he ABSOLUTELY wants to confiscate ALL your guns... You believe it, hook, line and sinker.

Here's how I know that.. I've been watching Obama pretty carefully, too. What I've noticed, is that I'm to the LEFT of him on a WIDE variety of issues. That would be a WIDE variety... You'd THINK, therefore, that I'd BE a screaming commie "collectivist" (your word... But, of course, I'm NOT. I'm a LIBERAL CAPITALIST - a STAUNCH liberal capitalist. I must say, that I'm quite a STAUNCH Constitutionalist, too. No?

How can that be?

excon

Funny how I get taken to task by Tut for his objection to using a quote that does fall in line with Obama's philosophy, but you can just flat out LIE about my beliefs without a shred of evidence and you get a pass.

But hey, now I can see why Harry Reid's rumor mongering is no biggie to you, it's one of your favorite tactics.

Funny how I get taken to task by Tut for his objection to using a quote that does fall in line with Obama's philosophy, but you can just flat out LIE about my beliefs without a shred of evidence and you get a pass.

But hey, now I can see why Harry Reid's rumor mongering is no biggie to you, it's one of your favorite tactics.

I am not objecting to you using the ideas behind the quote. The ideas may well fit into line with Obama's philosophy.

I am not taking sides on this issue. I am objecting to taking quotes out of context.

Tut

I am not objecting to you using the ideas behind the quote. The ideas may well fit into line with Obama's philosophy.

I am not taking sides on this issue. I am objecting to taking quotes out of context.

Tut

As do I... IF it's used as a blatant misrepresentation. I don't believe I've done that.

As do I...IF it's used as a blatant misrepresentation. I don't believe I've done that.

I'm not saying that you blatantly misrepresented Addams' quote. Perhaps a different quote from a different source?

I assume by the Obama quote:

"You didn't build that..."

You are saying that Obama is against individuality. Obama has this philosophy whereby he thinks that as far as individuals are concerned we are incapable or unable to doing anything worthwhile or creative without the government dictating our every move. He wants the government to be involved in all aspects of our lives.

If you are saying this then I am not necessarily disputing it.

What I am really interested in is how can Chapter 7 of Addams' Democracy and Social Ethics ( where the quotes you supplied were taken from) is even remotely compatible with the Obama quote?

Tut

Tut, did you stop to think that perhaps Obama and his progressive influences and cohorts are the ones who have expanded on and taken Addams beyond what was intended?

Tut, did you stop to think that perhaps Obama and his progressive influences and cohorts are the ones who have expanded on and taken Addams beyond what was intended?Hello again, Steve:

I haven't bothered too much with this philosophical conversation, because I'm not real philosophical.. You took offense, Steve, at my suggestion that you think Obama is a (collectivist, socialist, Communist, Marxist, pinko), take your pick... But, your post above indicates that you think exactly that, even if you don't want to give it a label.

I'm going to ask you again, to explain ME. I'm to the LEFT of Obama on many, many MAJOR issues.. Yet, I remain a staunch capitalist. Yes, you and I differ on HOW the pie is to be divided, but there's NO doubt where the pie comes from, and there's NO Democrat out there saying otherwise..

You appear to be suggesting that Obama thinks the pie comes from government. That's like saying that Obama, and his "progressive friends and cohorts", (which WOULD include me) thinks that cars run on fairy dust.

I FOUGHT a war against communism... To even remotely hint that MY politics might tinge on it, is HIGHLY offensive.

excon

What I objected to was this unfounded allegation, "Although you've never said it out loud, I believe you've bought the Tea Party "agenda" fully and absolutely.."

I don't even know what the Tea Party "agenda" is beyond limited government and yes I fully buy into that, but you know me better than to paint me as a right-wing zealot.

I assume you base this solely on one remark on the Cruz thread, "we're ready for some real hopenchange. Perry is next."

Well sir, it's no secret here that I'm no Perry fan and that was before the Tea Party came into existence. Dewhurst may be OK but he's another establishment guy. Cruz is not, and we need people to shake things up in congress instead of business as usual. You object to that because he's more conservative than his predecessor, KBH. That's why we voted for him, we don't need another KBH.

I haven't made it any secret that I see Obama as a collectivist, it's not hard to see since he's as much as said so. He makes no secret of his desire to redistribute wealth and credit government as the grand benefactor. He said it with Julia and he's now said it about business. He said it with Obamacare, he said with his ridiculous budgets, gutting welfare reform, the contraception mandate and on and on. You can't deny it. Well you can, but it would devoid of reality.

LOL, who the hell makes a political career on what some dame said decades ago? It doesn't matter what she said. Heck, a lot of people might have agreed with her, but some don't. Who cares and why is it relevant?

We all have opinions, so quoting past people is their opinion, and it may not be as wrong as yours, or mine. Hell its only an opinion what she was trying to say! Just like you quoting Obama, and giving your opinion, some agree, I don't. Difference is he has come out and said you guys were blowing smoke about what he said and meant. She can't! The press has run the whole quote, and you guys just seem to be wrong, but that's just MY opinion.

LOL, who the hell makes a political career on what some dame said decades ago?

So today's progressives had no past influences in the development of their ideology today? They got their on their own?? Bwa ha ha!!

So today's progressives had no past influences in the development of their ideology today? They might but they adapt to the current situations and new technology and new knowledge. This isn't the horse and buggy era any more, no matter how much you wish to return to those days. Being regressive has its downsides.

They might but they adapt to the current situations and new technology and new knowledge. This isn't the horse and buggy era any more, no matter how much you wish to return to those days. Being regressive has its downsides.

You really ought to try and play nice for once. But then again if you insist on looking like an a$$ that's up to you.

I mean how pathetic is it to insult me as being "regressive" and that "This isn't the horse and buggy era any more"? Did I just respond to you via Pony Express or the internet?

So today's progressives had no past influences in the development of their ideology today? They got their on their own??? Bwa ha ha!!!Hello again, Steve:

I wasn't lying above.. The reason I didn't discuss political philosophy with you is because I am bereft of a philosophy and/or what influenced it. Now, I'm sure you'll CALL it an ideology, and perhaps you can explain HOW I got it, philosophically.

But, my political upbringing was a lot simpler than that... I read the Constitution. I read the Bill of Rights. I understood them. Good thing they didn't use big words, too. I was stationed IN the south in the early 60's. I SAW, with my own eyes, that the freedoms I enjoyed were DENIED to others. So, I set about fixing that, and I haven't stopped. THAT is my political education.. I don't know who that woman is, what she wrote, and I don't care.

What surprised me in my endeavor, is that there were actually people who OBJECTED to spreading the freedom around, and they belonged to YOUR party.. Nothing has changed. To this day, I'm STILL blown away by it.

Therefore, in my view, it's YOU who has the ideology - not me.

excon

So today's progressives had no past influences in the development of their ideology today? They got their on their own?? Bwa ha ha!!

Progressives see the past, learn from and correct mistakes, and adapt to the changed conditions to move forward. We also recognize the need to drag you guys with us, because moving forward is hardly an easy thing for you righties.

To be honest, you guys are heavy, and loud. But we love you!


I haven't made it any secret that I see Obama as a collectivist, it's not hard to see since he's as much as said so.

He is supposed to be a collectivist, he is the president of a country, a nation, and everybody should have the same chance to succeed, not just rich guys who steal money through taxes and loopholes they created for themselves to maximize extracting YOUR wealth. And pay NO taxes.


He makes no secret of his desire to redistribute wealth and credit government as the grand benefactor.

In a fair way so we all have a chance to thrive and survive, even through a recession.


He said it with Julia

What’s wrong with making a woman’s right to succeed a priority? She is part of the government’s obligation to provide for the general welfare isn’t she?


and he's now said it about business.

He said business should have rules and regulations and be responsible for their mistakes. And pay fair taxes. They make money in this country don’t they?


He said it with Obamacare,

Yes he did, and even republican voters like it so far.


he said with his ridiculous budgets,

Well he had to pay for the other guy’s wars, and off the books knick knacks, and a recession/robbery. And all those tax cuts for the rich guys. I bet your budget would look funky too!


gutting welfare reform,

That’s a blatant lie, told by those who depend on your ignorance to believe it, because they are to dumb to look up the facts. They LIE! But what do we call the ones who repeat the lie? Misinformed is a nice word... for NOW!


the contraception mandate and on and on.

Only applies to businesses, and insurance companies. AND woman of all ages who need it. That’s a good thing, but that’s just my opinion, of course you are as entitled to yours as I a mine. That’s the AMERICA way.


You can't deny it. Well you can, but it would devoid of reality.

Why should I deny the good things this president has done so far? That’s my reality, and it’s about time. It’s also my reality and my opinion, that Romney and the right wing, IS the problem, not government, even though they could do better.

Keep on crying... and lyin'... its your right as an American.

Hello Tal:

You da MAN!

excon

Thanks, Ex, Takes a village to raise these righties.

...and that "This isn't the horse and buggy era any more"? .You're the one who quotes Addams [Jane Addams (September 6, 1860 – May 21, 1935)]. That's what I was referring to. I accept your apology.

You're the one who quotes Addams [Jane Addams (September 6, 1860 – May 21, 1935)]. That's what I was referring to. I accept your apology.

I quote Jesus sometimes, too. Obama quotes Lincoln. So what. I won't apologize for you insulting me.

But you are regressive! LOL.

But you are regressive! LOL.

Still insisting on the personal insults. Keep it up, I really don't care if you enjoy looking like an a$$.

Hello again,

I have power. I'd LOVE to use it... It's the ONLY place in my life where I have any..

Look. What's remarkable is that we've been able to keep this conversation alive for YEARS! Yes, it gets heated. It SHOULD. Yes, sometimes words slip out... But, I don't believe ANY of it is personal...

So, STOP the snarkness, or I'll USE my power.

excon

Still insisting on the personal insults. Keep it up, I really don't care if you enjoy looking like an a$$.I meant the GOP of course.

Uh huh.

Tut, did you stop to think that perhaps Obama and his progressive influences and cohorts are the ones who have expanded on and taken Addams beyond what was intended?


To answer your question

Yes, I did think about it. In fact I said on a couple of occasions that Obama may well be a collectivist.

Perhaps I could try my question again??

How is Addam's supporting Obama's contention that:

"You didn't build that..."

Tut

P.S. Sorry, but I just have this dislike for quotes out of context.

LOL, who the hell makes a political career on what some dame said decades ago? It doesn't matter what she said. Heck, a lot of people might have agreed with her, but some don't. Who cares and why is it relevant?


It actually matters a lot for a number of reasons.

When misquoting it is always useful to pick someone who is an authority on a particular issue. This way it has more of a chance to mislead the reader.

It seems to be a favourite pastime of people who set up websites with a particular political perspective. A lot of times they are links that are provided in this forum as some type of evidence. It is not evidence of any type.

People such as Addams have contributed to our store of knowledge. Knowledge is a accumulative process. The only way it can accumulate is when we acknowledge a persons position on certain issues and then build our own theories based on the stated understanding.



We all have opinions, so quoting past people is their opinion, and it may not be as wrong as yours, or mine. Hell its only an opinion what she was trying to say! Just like you quoting Obama, and giving your opinion, some agree, I don't. Difference is he has come out and said you guys were blowing smoke about what he said and meant. She can't! The press has run the whole quote, and you guys just seem to be wrong, but thats just MY opinion.

Well actually she can because I would defend Addams position in relation to the whole, not building it yourself thing. Doesn't really matter who says it so long as it is said right.

Tut

This thread has degenerated into he said she said

It actually matters a lot for a number of reasons.

When misquoting it is always useful to pick someone who is an authority on a particular issue. This way it has more of a chance to mislead the reader.

It seems to be a favourite pastime of people who set up websites with a particular political perspective. A lot of times they are links that are provided in this forum as some type of evidence. It is not evidence of any type.

People such as Addams have contributed to our store of knowledge. Knowledge is a accumulative process. The only way it can accumulate is when we acknowledge a persons position on certain issues and then build our own theories based on the stated understanding.



Well actually she can because I would defend Addams position in relation to the whole, not building it yourself thing. Doesn't really matter who says it so long as it is said right.

Tut

I can get with what you are saying, but its so hard to be objective when you have part of the truth, no context, or worse intentional misleading or a hidden agenda. Its really hard to breakdown a complex issue with simple facts.

Hard to connect dots with out ALL the dots, or the context of how they fit. Even with a manual, a guide, like the Constitution, we still have many ways to interpret what is written.

To answer your question

Yes, I did think about it. In fact I said on a couple of occasions that Obama may well be a collectivist.

Perhaps I could try my question again???

How is Addam's supporting Obama's contention that:

"You didn't build that..."

Tut

P.S. Sorry, but I just have this dislike for quotes out of context.

I don't know that Addams is supporting Obama's contention or not, I'm saying Obama cherry picks from the "store of knowledge" to justify his policies.

I can get with what you are saying, but its so hard to be objective when you have part of the truth, no context, or worse intentional misleading or a hidden agenda. Its really hard to breakdown a complex issue with simple facts.

Actually the problem here for you guys is Obama was honest instead of veiling his intent with the usual code words.


Hard to connect dots with out ALL the dots, or the context of how they fit. Even with a manual, a guide, like the Constitution, we still have many ways to interpret what is written.

Like this "wall of separation" thing (which isn't even in the constitution) your side uses to say God is banned from government, but ignores when it comes to forcing the church to violate her conscience?

Like this "wall of separation" thing (which isn't even in the constitution) your side uses to say God is banned from government, but ignores when it comes to forcing the church to violate her conscience?Not applicable to churches, only to companies.

Not applicable to churches, only to companies.

The same old lie that's been repeated here ad nauseum. Catholic Charities (http://www.catholiccharities.net/media_room/media_release/339) is not a business.

The same old lie that's been repeated here ad nauseum. Catholic Charities (http://www.catholiccharities.net/media_room/media_release/339) is not a business.How does it affect them if they are doing charity work and not offering insurance?

I don't know that Addams is supporting Obama's contention or not, I'm saying Obama cherry picks from the "store of knowledge" to justify his policies.


Would you consider removing or changing your first signature quote?

The two quotes are not compatible. It is somewhat misleading.

Tut

Would you consider removing or changing your first signature quote?

The two quotes are not compatible. It is somewhat misleading.

Tut

We have a pac blaming a guy for the death of a woman where none of the facts add up and a campaign outright lying about what they knew, but you and ex are more concerned about my signature because it may be "somewhat misleading"??

Really??

really???


https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/attachments/current-events/40716d1342557642-taxers-condi-raped.jpg

:-)

We have a pac blaming a guy for the death of a woman where none of the facts add up and a campaign outright lying about what they knew, but you and ex are more concerned about my signature because it may be "somewhat misleading"???

Really???


I think there are two different issues at work here.

However, as far as the Ad in question is concerned I am of the opinion that it is unacceptable. This is regardless of whoever is prepared to accept responsibility.

Tut

How does it affect them if they are doing charity work and not offering insurance?

You must think everyone who works for a charity does so for free, like some magical money tree is going to make sure they feed their family.

You must think everyone who works for a charity does so for free, like some magical money tree is going to make sure they feed their family.Most charities work by donations and volunteerism. Once it becomes a revenue-generating business it has to abide by business rules.

Most charities work by donations and volunteerism. Once it becomes a revenue-generating business it has to abide by business rules.
When I interned at Catholic Charities for six months, it was considered a social services agency and thus a business. Social workers and counselors were paid employees with benefits including health insurance. There was a management hierarchy. I am guessing that is still the case.

LOL, I find it interesting that church officials are hollering about religious freedom, while the workers are protesting draconian policies that are against the poor.

Nuns on the Bus: 2700 Miles, Nine States, and a Rock Star DC Welcome | (A)theologies | Religion Dispatches (http://www.religiondispatches.org/archive/atheologies/6156/nuns_on_the_bus%3A_2700_miles%2C_nine_states%2C_an d_a_rock_star_dc_welcome/)


I suspect, though I have no privileged evidence, that the real push for the nuns was a groundswell of support from Catholics and others who realize that it is past the time to listen passively to the bishops rant and rave about religious freedom while running roughshod over other people's rights. It is tricky business in the increasingly lay-led Church to put too much emphasis on any one group, especially the nuns on whom some people mistakenly confer a quasi-clerical status (nuns are consecrated to religious life, but are not clergy). But in this instance, the bus adventure captured many imaginations and functioned to demonstrate how the free exercise of religion can achieve many good ends for those who will bear the cost.


A final important dimension of this improbable adventure was the outpouring of interfaith (and non-faith) respect and solidarity. All across the country, people who responded to the nuns on the bus came from a variety of traditions and no faith whatsoever. They seem to be attracted to the women's gumption to lace up their sensible shoes and get to the work of social change while caring for people in the process.

Some holler, while others work. Which one gets the job done most effectively? The Catholic church should listen to the females of their faith.

When I interned at Catholic Charities for six months, it was considered a social services agency and thus a business. Social workers and counselors were paid employees with benefits including health insurance. There was a management hierarchy. I am guessing that is still the case.
Thanks for the info. Was the insurance company a separate company not affiliated with CC?

Most charities work by donations and volunteerism. Once it becomes a revenue-generating business it has to abide by business rules.

Non-profit organizations have employees, too. And they don't work for free. Churches have employees, janitors, office personnel, maintenance guys - it's quite normal for the pastor to a be church employees.

You don't have to be a revenue-generating business to be an employer, and being an employer doesn't negate your first amendment rights.

When I interned at Catholic Charities for six months, it was considered a social services agency and thus a business. Social workers and counselors were paid employees with benefits including health insurance. There was a management hierarchy. I am guessing that is still the case.

Like NK you omit the "non-profit" status which makes all the difference.

Some holler, while others work. Which one gets the job done most effectively? The Catholic church should listen to the females of their faith.

Do you really want to go there again?

World Vision (http://www.worldvision.org/)

And by the way, they're too busy working to help others to have time to draw attention to themselves with a bus tour.

you omit the "non-profit" status which makes all the difference.Hello again, Steve:

It makes NO difference whatsoever to the female employee who's ENTITLED to be treated equally with her male counterparts.. The church can't discriminate against women. It just can't...

excon

Thanks for the info. Was the insurance company a separate company not affiliated with CC?
Unfortunately I wasn't a paid employee, so don't know the answer to that. I do know many of the employees were not Catholic and were young employed marrieds without children.

And by the way, they're too busy working to help others to have time to draw attention to themselves with a bus tour.

You are right, they should just go home and do as they are told. The hierarchy knows best, how dare they act as the spirit moves them to do.

I think there are two different issues at work here.

However, as far as the Ad in question is concerned I am of the opinion that it is unacceptable. This is regardless of whoever is prepared to accept responsibility.

Tut

Not really, the issue seems to be deception. You said my quotes were misleading even though I was merely pointing what I believe to an influence that led to the Obama we have today (and don't forget we only have six lines available for a signature). I say misleading is that ad.

You are right, they should just go home and do as they are told. The hierarchy knows best, how dare they act as the spirit moves them to do.

I don't care what the nuns do, that's between them, God and the church they agreed to serve. If they want to drive around on a bus drawing attention to themselves so they can have a "rock star" welcome in DC that's their business. The rest of us will go quietly about helping others.

I say misleading is that ad.Hello again, Steve:

Look. We ALL know that Romney causes cancer. But, if they LIVED in Massachusetts, they'd be alive... Is it the water up there?

excon

I'm wondering what's in the water up your way.

If the NUNS aren't listening to you guys, why should we?

If the NUNS aren't listening to you guys, why should we?

I don't recall telling the nuns anything.

Not really, the issue seems to be deception. You said my quotes were misleading even though I was merely pointing what I believe to an influence that led to the Obama we have today (and don't forget we only have six lines available for a signature). I say misleading is that ad.

I believe a lot of things myself. The only problems is trying to prove these things.

If we take a particular stance on an issue and this issue is up for public scrutiny then it is not unreasonable for the scrutineers to want evidence.


Tut

I believe a lot of things myself. The only problems is trying to prove these things.

If we take a particular stance on an issue and this issue is up for public scrutiny then it is not unreasonable for the scrutineers to want evidence.


Tut

Perfectly reasonable, but I can't make the entire connection in six lines.

"Anybody but Obama" would fit for you. It covers anything you have ever posted, represents your views, and explains why you would vote for one who has said he will take your money from your pocket, and put it in his.

You're welcome.

Who do you have in mind who is more radical than Obama ? Given the choice between Obama and someone more radical than Obama I would certainly vote for the more moderate . But the Dems keep on pushing ever "left" . So Obama is more radical than Kerry ,and Clintoon ,Dukakis ,Mondale ,and Carter before him .

What radical? He hasn't done anything radical except get bin Laden killed.

If you think Obama is radical you need glasses, or you are too conservative. If anything he isn't radical enough. I would have had Rep.Wilson banned for life for interupting my SOU speech, and drug tested and balls stretched behind his ears.

That would be radical.

Or had him waterboarded...

Or declare Marshall law and have congress sequestered until he had the jobs act,and the dream act ready to sign, or better yet, docked their pay, starting from 2010! Now that's radical I can believe in!

Hello again,

Ok, the veep distraction is over... Romney was HOPING it would quash the tax return question... It didn't..

What's he HIDING?

excon

Hello again,

Ok, the veep distraction is over... Romney was HOPING it would quash the tax return question... It didn't..

What's he HIDING??

excon

If we're talking hiding let's at least deal with reality instead of rumors.

What is Obama hiding from Issa in the F&F investigation?

Why did his democrat predecessor block his own subpoena in the Countrywide mess (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-57494232/house-members-vip-loans-kept-out-of-subpoena/)?

Why won't Democrats refer to the home of their convention by its name, Bank of America Stadium?

Why is Biden being sent home early for the weekend?

What are the hiding?

If we're talking hiding let's at least deal with reality instead of rumors.

What is Obama hiding from Issa in the F&F investigation?

Why did his democrat predecessor block his own subpoena in the Countrywide mess (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-57494232/house-members-vip-loans-kept-out-of-subpoena/)?

Why won't Democrats refer to the home of their convention by its name, Bank of America Stadium?

Why is Biden being sent home early for the weekend?

What are the hiding?

Don't change the subject to avoid answering the question. What are YOU hiding?

Ya think those tax returns would educate us as to how an unemployed guy has income without selling drugs(?), or if he needs a tax cut, or NOT! (IF I'm paying for it, shouldn't I be able to see for myself how much it is?).

I want to know how he got so much in a retirement account (without a job?? )? How you get taxed three times on the same money and still only pay 13% in taxes? Knowing that could help us economically challenged types, don't agree??

Enquiring minds want to know. Trust but..!

Don't change the subject to avoid answering the question. What are YOU hiding?

CC Sabatthia.


Ya think those tax returns would educate us as to how an unemployed guy has income without selling drugs(?), or if he needs a tax cut, or NOT! (IF I'm paying for it, shouldn't I be able to see for myself how much it is?).

Presidential candidates have a to privacy, there is no requirement to release tax records and yet he did. Deal with the facts in evidence, not some puerile rumor.

It's a legit question to ask why investment incomes are taxed at a lower rate than payroll taxes? It's a legit question to ask is he running for president to extract wealth for himself, or is he legally hiding something we need to know.

Its legit to examine the guy who wants to be president. Those aren't rumors, they are QUESTIONS! He has answered none, not even how he pays for his tax cuts.

Yes it legit to vet the candidates. Shame the media didn't bother to do that with Obama.

You have more than enough info on Romney from his time at Bain, the SLC Olympics, MA governor, first presidential run... what more do you need, a trip through his colon?

No we'll settle for going through his garbage

Very simple... if you are not satisfied with what he has disclosed ,then vote against him.

very simple... if you are not satisfied with what he has disclosed ,then vote against him.

A reasonable proposition.

http://rbo2.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/aaa2.jpg?w=584&h=405

Couldn't resist .

couldn't resist .If that's the way you see it then you do indeed have the party blinders on.

couldn't resist .Hello again, tom:

It's a funny cartoon... But, I noticed something that should be on the other side... Our credit downgrade was a direct result of REPUBLICAN action...

In fact, as I digest the list, there are a few OTHER items that should be on the other side...

excon

How is that ex, because Republicans refused to roll over for Obama? You seriously believe Democrats bear no responsibility? Get real.

How is that ex, because Republicans refused to roll over for Obama? You seriously believe Democrats bear no responsibility? Get real.Hello again, Steve:

Roll over for Obama? Maybe you just don't understand what the debt ceiling IS? Or, your memory is faulty.. Raising the debt ceiling wasn't FOR Obama. HE doesn't care. It's about whether, as a country, we would pay our bills...

But, the REPUBLICANS used the threat of DEFAULT to get some concession from the Democrats. The FINANCIAL community saw this as a WILLINGNESS by Republicans to throw the economy off the cliff, and they downgraded our credit rating because of it...

Now, I'm SURE you BELIEVE, with ALL of your right wing heart, that Joe Biden saying something about chains, CAUSED our downgrade... But, as usual, you'd be WRONG.

Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

excon

You seriously believe Democrats bear no responsibility? He never said that nor wrote anything that would cause a reasonable person to think that. Once again you are putting words into people's mouths.

Your memory is faulty, we've been here before (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/who-owns-downgrade-592391.html#post2870882).

P.S. When was the last time the Democrat-controlled Senate passed a budget?

He never said that nor wrote anything that would cause a reasonable person to think that. Once again you are putting words into people's mouths.

Ex can handle himself just fine without your irrelevant, uninvited input into our conversation.

Ex can handle himself just fine without your irrelevant, uninvited input into our conversation.Public forum dude. If you can't handle it then leave.

Public forum dude

Glad to see you finally realized that.


if you can't handle it then leave.

Bwa ha ha!! You give yourself way too much credit.