Hi folks, this is more of a topic than a direct question;

However I would like to understand why atheism in general offends people.

I don't believe in God as there is no evidence to suggest there is, atop of the fact that there are much better ways to explain the world nowadays which does not require a God.

However, I am still a kind and generous person when I can be. I do believe that I have a good moral compass as do most people too. Furthermore; I find that even though most of us are moral people, it appears only organised religion finds an excuse to condone murder, torture and even child abuse.
So I simply ask; why can atheism, which is simply the will to question unjustifiable and unverifiable claims be considered offensive to those who believe?

Thanks

Ryan.

Hi folks, this is more of a topic than a direct question;

However I would like to understand why atheism in general offends people.

I don't believe in God as there is no evidence to suggest there is, atop of the fact that there are much better ways to explain the world nowadays which does not require a God.

However, I am still a kind and generous person when I can be. I do believe that I have a good moral compass as do most people too. Furthermore; I find that even though most of us are moral people, it appears only organised religion finds an excuse to condone murder, torture and even child abuse.
So I simply ask; why can atheism, which is simply the will to question unjustifiable and unverifiable claims be considered offensive to those who believe?

Thanks

Ryan.



My specific "take" on this is that I would never make a blanket statement like this about atheists if our positions were reversed - "it appears only organised religion finds an excuse to condone murder, torture and even child abuse."

Otherwise I stay off the religion boards.

My specific "take" on this is that I would never make a blanket statement like this about athiests if our positions were reversed - "it appears only organised religion finds an excuse to condone murder, torture and even child abuse."

.

Well I'm sorry, but organised religion does condone those things, I can find the passages if you like (But surely you would know if you had read the bible/Q'uran yourself). There has never been a man to kill in the name of atheism, perhaps anti-theism but never atheism.

My question is how can it offend people when I express my disbelief for God, yet it is all right for a religious man/lady to come to my door and attempt to convince me that I am wrong.

The answer here is that there are religious zealots who feel they have to convert everyone to their way of thinking. There are other people so deeply into their religion that for anyone to challenge their belief in their religion is an affront to them. Such people will take offense when their beliefs are challenged.

You are tarring all Christians with the same brush. I am a life-long Christian and have no problem with atheists. In fact, I read books by famous ones to learn how they think and why--and then reexamine my own beliefs. And I am not the only Christian who does this.

You are tarring all Christians with the same brush. I am a life-long Christian and have no problem with atheists. In fact, I read books by famous ones to learn how they think and why--and then reexamine my own beliefs. And I am not the only Christian who does this.

Well actually I am talking to the religious people in general, and although I appreciate what you've said, I would still like to know what makes the people who do get offended tick.

Also in addition, it has to be said. If you read science books, and books on atheism then I would be very interested in your belief system, as I used to be a believer when I was young, then took Philosophy and Ethics at A level and I have been atheist since then, once I read more about science and atheism it seemed a no brainer to me.

No offense intended, Just expressing my opinion.

Thanks

Well i'm sorry, but organised religion does condone those things, I can find the passages if you like (But surely you would know if you had read the bible/Q'uran yourself). There has never been a man to kill in the name of atheism, perhaps anti-theism but never atheism.

My question is how can it offend people when i express my disbelief for God, yet it is all right for a religious man/lady to come to my door and attempt to convince me that I am wrong.


You don't have to be an atheist to NOT want people preaching at you at your door, on the street, on AMHD.

As far as there has never been a murder by an atheist I haven't researched and so I don't know - I'm not aware that's a question that is asked at the murder scene but, again, I don't know.

I don't know that people are offended by other people's religious beliefs. I can only address myself, and I'm not. What does offend me is people who preach, and that includes Christians, Jews and everyone else. If I want to hear what they have to say, I'll ask them. Same with atheists.

I have a relative who is a fanatical born again Christian. If I say it's raining, she quotes the Bible. That's offensive.

There are zealots everywhere in the name of just about anything.

You seem to have a need to defend atheists - why?

Too late for me to edit my answer BUT I notice you spend a lot of time on the "Islam" boards.

Why?

Also in addition, it has to be said. If you read science books, and books on atheism then I would be very interested in your belief system
My belief is that God is so much bigger than humans can ever imagine. They tend to put Him in a small corral and build a high fence around Him. And out of fear of what they think He will do to them if they are "incorrect" in their beliefs, they also erect a high fence around themselves.

FEAR is the operative word.

You don't have to be an atheist to NOT want people preaching at you at your door, on the street, on AMHD.

As far as there has never been a murder by an atheist I haven't researched and so I don't know - I'm not aware that's a question that is asked at the murder scene but, again, I don't know.

I don't know that people are offended by other people's religious beliefs. I can only address myself, and I'm not. What does offend me is people who preach, and that includes Christians, Jews and everyone else. If I want to hear what they have to say, I'll ask them. Same with atheists.

I have a relative who is a fanatical born again Christian. If I say it's raining, she quotes the Bible. That's offensive.

There are zealots everywhere in the name of just about anything.

You seem to have a need to defend atheists - why?

I agree with pretty much everything you've said, preaching is quite annoying and that is partly why I've asked this question in perticular, as I was expressing my disbelief in all things supernatural, including God and I was told by my manager to keep a lid on it.
I am in no-way defending atheism, the evidence (or lack of evidence on the religious part) Is more than enough to defend my view-point.
This is all about how atheists tend to be ushered around, and people try to silence us.

Ryan.

My belief is that God is so much bigger than humans can ever imagine. .

If that is true, then how can you even contemplate his existence, and furthermore; how can you possibly have the knowledge to believe in such a thing?

Oh also, FEAR is the operative word. The fear of there being no after-life causes people to believe in irrational beings.

in perticular, as I was expressing my disbelief in all things supernatural, including God and I was told by my manager to keep a lid on it. Hello Ryan:

You sound like you were trying to convert people... That turns people off. Maybe it's YOU that's offensive, and not atheism.

excon

If that is true, then how can you even contemplate his existence, and furthermore; how can you possibly have the knowledge to believe in such a thing?
I do my best with His help. :)

Hello Ryan:

You sound like you were trying to convert people... That turns people off. Maybe it's YOU that's offensive, and not atheism.

excon

Well no,
1) You don't convert to atheism
2) I was as calm as a cucumber, and used the words "Each to their own, this is just my opinion"
3) They tried to convert me.

So, no.

Thanks.

I do my best with His help. :)

How does he help you, what properties does this help have?

Is it mental? If it is then the odds are you are helping yourself.

Ryan.

I was told by my manager to keep a lid on it.

The work site is no place for religious discussions.

Years ago, our atheist teen library page (book shelver) challenged me to prove there is a God. I met and talked with him outside the library during lunch and break times. We got the library homeless guy (former altar boy) involved. It was one of the best times of my life!

How does he help you, what properties does this help have?

Is it mental? If it is then the odds are you are helping yourself.

Ryan.
He and I have constant, ongoing conversations.

You don't convert to atheism.. Hello again, R:

It's semantics.. In fact, it's your justification to continue to tell people that they're WRONG... That offends people.

excon

The work site is no place for religious discussions.

Well, they instigated the convosation... I was asked what I believed.

And furthermore, How does he communicate... is it a voice in your head?

Ryan

And furthermore, How does he communicate...is it a voice in your head?
Hahahahahahaha!!

Hello again, R:

In fact, it's your justification to continue to tell people that they're WRONG...

excon

Well according to mordern science, they are. You wouldn't go shouting at a man for saying water boils at 100 degrees would you? Yet when I say there is no verifiable, or empirical data for any type of God or supernatural phenemena, it becomes a problem.

Ryan

And furthermore, How does he communicate...is it a voice in your head?Hello again, Ryan:

You're offending my friend, Carol, now.

There IS a way to discuss atheism WITHOUT being confrontational and offensive... You don't know HOW to do that. I'd learn, if I was you.

excon

Hahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought that after you said you had on-going convosations, But I am not trying to offend here :)

Hello again, Ryan:

You're offending my friend, Carol, now.


excon

I am sorry what?. She offends my intelligence by stating that she is having a convosation with something she herself says we can't comprehend... I ask her a legitimate question whether it's a voice and it is offensive?. So what does he telephone her?

It was a genuine question to see how she communicates.

Yet when I say there is no verifiable, or empirical data for any type of God or supernatural phenemena, it becomes a problem.
Not a problem at all! There IS no empirical evidence for God. It's all based on faith.

I thought that after you said you had on-going convosations, But I am not trying to offend here :)
Of course you aren't. ;)

It was a genuine question to see how she communicates.Hello again, Ryan:

It's NOT a genuine question.. It's CONFRONTATIONAL. How is it that you don't understand what's going on right under your feet? Are you a kid?

excon

Ok well, looks like this is just going to get worse. I am going home now (I am at work).

I will pop back tomorrow when we've all calmed down.

Toodles.

Only one of us is not calm.

Hello again, Ryan:

It's NOT a genuine question.. Are you a kid?

excon

I am sorry, but I am not the one claiming I can talk to a man in the sky... re-evaluate your position.

I am sorry, but I am not the one claiming I can talk to a man in the sky...re-evaluate your position.Hello again, R:

I don't need to re-evaluate MY position. I'm an atheist. I'm just not an a$$hole about it.

excon

I am sorry, but I am not the one claiming I can talk to a man in the sky...re-evaluate your position.
He's not in the sky.

Ryan, you're offensive - at the workplace and on AMHD.

I was truly nice and explained my position. Carol disagreed and YOU became unpleasant.

Your "does He communicate by voices in your head comment" is demeaning to Wondergirl and indicates you are either very ignorant, very uneducated or very rude.

Or all three.

I find it amazing that the very person who finds people who preach is preaching.

Just out of curiosity - why do you have such a need to express your views on atheism? To "convert" us - or "de-convert" else or whatever else is involved.

I have a fair amount of experience with very sick people and also the legal system - there are no atheists in prison or on their death beds. I've yet to see one example to the contrary.

I have no idea what that means but thought I'd throw it into the mix.

Hello again, Ryan:

It's NOT a genuine question.. It's CONFRONTATIONAL. How is it that you don't understand what's going on right under your feet? Are you a kid?

excon


Yes, he's 20, I'll guess a server, and his "two peas in a pod" 27-year old girlfriend just kicked him out - https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relationships/relationship-advice-678759.html. He was forced to move back in with Mom and Dad.

I'm working on what qualifies a professed atheist to spend large chunks of time on the Islam Board. Note that "Ryan" didn't answer.

I also note to my vast amusement that Wondergirl (sorry to pick on you) doesn't find it necessary to use the username "WondergirlChristian." Ryan finds the need to "RyanAtheist."

I am changing mine to Judykayteelegalstuff.

Ok well, looks like this is just going to get worse. I am going home now (I am at work).

I will pop back tomorrow when we've all calmed down.

Toodles.As an atheist myself you come off as antireligious.

It's said better here: Atheism: An Introduction to Atheism (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/intro.html)

"If atheism is not religious, surely it's antireligious?"

It is an unfortunate human tendency to label everyone as either "for" or "against," "friend" or "enemy." The truth is not so clear-cut.

Atheism is the position that runs logically counter to theism; in that sense, it can be said to be "antireligion." However, when religious believers speak of atheists being "antireligious" they usually mean that the atheists have some sort of antipathy or hatred towards theists.

This categorization of atheists as hostile towards religion is quite unfair. Atheist attitudes towards theists in fact cover a broad spectrum.

Most atheists take a "live and let live" attitude. Unless questioned, they will not usually mention their atheism, except perhaps to close friends. Of course, this may be in part because atheism is not "socially acceptable" in many countries.

A few atheists are quite antireligious, and may even try to "convert" others when possible. Historically, such antireligious atheists have made little impact on society outside the Eastern Bloc countries.
...
Some atheists are quite vocal about their beliefs, but only where they see religion encroaching on matters which are not its business--for example, the government of the USA. Such individuals are usually concerned that church and state should remain separate.

I am sorry what?...She offends my intelligence by stating that she is having a convosation with something she herself says we can't comprehend...I ask her a legitimate question whether it's a voice and it is offensive?...So what does he telephone her?


You started this off with a reasonable question. I answered that question, but now you are trying to impose your beliefs on others which is what you started complaining about.

This is a point I have made several times. I agree that there is no proof that God exists, but there is also no proof that he doesn't. Therefore it is a matter of faith and personal beliefs. You are getting offended because WG believes, why? Isn't that the same question you asked? So maybe you can answer your own question.

But I detest proselytizers and that seems to be where you are headed.

As an atheist myself you come off as antireligious.

It's said better here: Atheism: An Introduction to Atheism (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/mathew/intro.html)


Perhaps wisdom comes with age -

Perhaps wisdom comes with age -
My atheist library page friend was the same age when he confronted me. It must be a developmental thing.

Perhaps wisdom comes with age -That might be it. In the same vein that peer pressure has absolutely no effect on me.

Atheist, Christian, Buddhist, Jain, Hindu, doctor, lawyer, Indian chief -- it's how we behave toward each other.

That might be it. In the same vein that peer pressure has absolutely no effect on me.


I would give you a greenie but there's no place here so - applause.

The sad part is that Ryan has set his own cause back 100 years.

Boy, I missed a good discussion here!

Boy, I missed a good discussion here!


Oh, stick around my friend, stick around. He'll be back.

I find it ENORMOUSLY amusing that between NeedKarma, Wondergirl, excon, you and me we've posted (approximately) 92,800 times. Ryan has posted something like 15.

He's still wearing diapers where AMHD is concerned and he's managed to offend everyone, even the atheists!

Signed -
Judythepersonwhoknowssomestuffaboutlegalstuff

The issue is that a real atheist would not offend, in fact they would find no reason even to address it. They do not believe there is a god but then would also not make fun of that god by calling them names to make other mad. A atheist would believe that all there is , there is, today is all , there is nothing else. And that you would not go out of your way to make fun of others. By making fun of others belief it is obvious that they are not a true atheist but are anti religious, there is a difference, a person does not have hatred for religion unless they have some religious belief.

Everybody would be less offended if we could get it through our heads that you cannot force somebody to a world view.

I'm Christian... I believe atheism is wrong. He's atheist and believes religious people are wrong. Doesn't mean we can't be civil to each other.

Very true that many religious people cross the boarder of civility when confronted with other views... but I know just as many atheists that flip out just as bad towards religion.

Everybody would be less offended if we could get it through our heads that you cannot force somebody to a world view.

I'm Christian...I believe atheism is wrong. He's atheist and believes religious people are wrong. Doesn't mean we can't be civil to eachother.

Very true that many religious people cross the boarder of civility when confronted with other views...but I know just as many atheists that flip out just as bad towards religion.

- And let me add that this "flip out" came in the middle of an otherwise civil conversation.

I suspect Ryan has issues which led to this thread, his girlfriend throwing him out, his Manager being angry with, having no place to go except his mother's house.

And some people just like to start things... it's nothing we haven't seen before.

I'm Christian...I believe atheism is wrong. I guess that's where we differ. I don't care what religion you practice so I'm not going to say it's wrong.

I meant that only in the context of my personal beliefs. My Christianity it not something I am going to shove down someone's throat... it simply doesn't work like that... while I will have concern for those that don't believe as I do, in the end it's their choice. I'm not going to throw a fit about it nor does it offend me.


I guess that's where we differ. I don't care what religion you practice so I'm not going to say it's wrong.

No need for me to defend anyone but when I had a true crisis in my life Hauntinghelper took time, a lot of timel, to respond to my questions in a compassionate, kind way with never one judgmental word.

Yes, he's 20, I'll guess a server, and his "two peas in a pod" 27-year old girlfriend just kicked him out - https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/relationships/relationship-advice-678759.html. He was forced to move back in with Mom and Dad.

I'm working on what qualifies a professed atheist to spend large chunks of time on the Islam Board. Note that "Ryan" didn't answer.

I also note to my vast amusement that Wondergirl (sorry to pick on you) doesn't find it necessary to use the username "WondergirlChristian." Ryan finds the need to "RyanAtheist."

I am changing mine to Judykayteelegalstuff.


- And let me add that this "flip out" came in the middle of an otherwise civil conversation.

I suspect Ryan has issues which led to this thread, his girlfriend throwing him out, his Manager being angry with, having no place to go except his mother's house.

Ah, well it's good to see you've kept the post alive... I guess we've all calmed down now.

And actually, I sorted things out with my girlfriend thank you very much :)

Anyway, that's much besides the point.

I did not make this convosation confrontational, I think you'll find that you guys changed the topic from "Why does atheism offend?"... to "This is what I believe and why".
It has spiralled into this purely because of my replies to wondergirl who basically tried to fob off a genuine question by using God, it was never my intention to discuss religion or God because you have no arguement.
Yeah now I'm being confrontational, you talk about me being un-educated?

{personal attacks removed}

I'd love it if one of you could actually argue a case for your position, since all this post was about, was literally discussing what makes people tick and why... I guess I've sussed it out; Because your wrong and don't want to admit it/ don't want it to be true.


Ryan.

P.S I am also an anti-theist... all religious dogma is unhealthy for society.

I did not make this convosation confrontational, I think you'll find that you guys changed the topic from "Why does atheism offend?"....to "This is what I believe and why".


Just to make sure I reviewed the entire thread, and your comments here, especially the one I quoted are not accurate and way off base. I found that it was you in responded with antagonism. That you started attacking what other people believed simply because they explained what they believed.

I have also edited some of your comments because they are clear and direct violations of our rules.



I'd love it if one of you could actually argue a case for your position, since all this post was about, was literally discussing what makes people tick and why...I guess i've sussed it out; Because your wrong and don't want to admit it/ don't want it to be true.


I'm not sure which position you refer to. If you refer to the position that there is or is not a god, then I have not seen you argue that position either. The fact is, as I've mentioned, that there is no conclusive proof one way or the other. And the only one here I've seen unwilling to admit they were wrong is you.

And finally, because I believe your purpose in starting this thread was not a reasonable and civil discussion by as a launching pad for you to attack others I am closing the thread.