Hi! I am looking into getting a new puppy, but am having a hard time deciding on a breed right for me and my family. I want a larger breed, about the size of a Golden Retriever. I would like a dog who is playful and happy, but also would snuggle with me at night. I want a dog who is loyal. I would like a dog who has little grooming requirements. Brushing is fine, but not going to the groomer's often. I don't need the dog to be protective unless there is an emergency. I don't want a really vocal breed. Some barking is Ok, but generally, he doesn't bark furiously unless something is wrong. I have a fairly large yard, 35 acres. My yard is fenced in all the way. I would like a dog that is good with strangers, kids, other dogs, and other pets. This is my first dog, so a breed that is better for beginners would be great. I want a fairly healthy breed, living about 12-15.

If you could give me any suggestions, I would like it very much.
Thanks for any suggestions you may have!

Kids or no kids?
What breeds have you considered already?
Have you considered adopting a shelter pet?

Have you ever owned a dog before? I gather you've never lived with a dog?

What you have described is the ideal dog but they aren't born knowing when to bark and when not to bark, when to protect and when not to protect.

How much time and energy and money - if you need to consult with a trainer - do you intend to invest? Who will be home with the dog during the day? In-house dog (I gather) or outside dog? Kennel or no kennel?

Can you afford vet bills, shots, pet sitting or boarding if you go away? My GSD has an ear infection (again!), and today's bill for flushing and cleaning was $140. She goes back again in 10 days and again 10 days after that. My Gordon Setter died 3 months ago - her Vet bills were over $3,000 - and I lost her anyway. I also lost a chunk of my heart but...

I've had dogs all my life - I have a puppy, Rott/Shepherd mix. He's a handful. We are going to Puppy Training classes. I have an older GSD, sweetest dog in the World, never needed an expert or a class.

Me? I rescue. All of my dogs have been rescues - "why buy when others die?"

They are all different.

One-third acre is not a lot of land for a large breed dog.

I'm not being discouraging. I am being realistic. If you take a close look at this and decide to proceed there will be one VERY lucky dog in this World!

Dalmatians are good beginner dogs.

If you're a very active person, the German shorthaired pointer is good also.

Avoid any type of dog that has pit in it. Although I love te breed and they are fantastic with kids, they're not good beginner dogs.

Labs are fantastic family dogs. Moderate grooming needs.

Weimeriners are good... Vizslas as well

Honestly, any of the hunting breeds make good family pets. They were designed to be good with families and kids. You just need to make darn sure you meet their energy needs.

One warning about Dalmatians, and no offense Lucky. One genetic defect highly present in Dalmatians is deafness. They are beautiful dogs, but many of them have this defect and will end up being deaf. Not something most people can deal with easily, especially a newbie dog owner.

Labs are great. They're family dogs, bigger breed, little to no grooming (a brushing once a week and a bath when they get dirty). Labs live to please, love kids. They do need exercise, but are just as happy to sit at your feet by the fire.

The first year with a lab is the hardest. Actually, that's true of any dog. Puppies are adorable, but they're a pain in the... well, they're puppies. Dog love them.

If you're not very familiar with dogs, especially puppies, I would consider an older rescue dog. There are literally 4 lab crosses in my shelter as we speak, all under 2 years of age. They're spayed or neutered, house trained, have all their shots, and that's ideal for a novice dog owner.

Thank you for your imputs. I have been considering a Golden Retriever, a German Shepherd, and a Lab, but am totally open to any other breeds.

There are four kids in this house (9, 10, 16, 18) but one is moving to college.

I live across from a lake, so a dog that likes to swim would be OK.

Thanks again for your help! Keep it coming!

If you want a dog that loves to swim, I'd definitely go for the lab. Labs actually have webbed toes, they're born to swim, and love it.

Have you researched any of these breeds?

Golden retrievers are also a great family pet. But, you did say that you wanted something with minimal grooming. That's not what you'll get with a Golden. German Shepherds are also beautiful loyal dogs, but they're not a dog I would recommend to a novice owner.

I really think your best bet would be a lab.

One more question.

Have you considered a rescue dog?

If you have, and would like some help finding a dog that would fit into your family, if you post your general area (no address, just the state you live in), I will be more than happy to help you search for a rescue shelter in your area, and help you find a dog that will fit into your family.

There are also breed specific shelters all over the world. So, once you choose a breed, finding a rescue dog is not hard at all.

Puppies aren't easy, no matter what breed you get.

I myself have always had dogs. I've had a dachshund, heinz 57 (only God knows what was in that mix), a poodle, lab/border collie cross, border collie crossed with pi$$ and vinegar, beagle (most stubborn dog on the planet, and still with us), and our newest baby, a 4 month old border collie, lab, and Dog knows what else cross.

I have to say, the easiest dog by far, and we first met him when he was only a few weeks old, and brought him home at 12 weeks of age, was our lab cross. He passed away only 6 months ago at the ripe old age of 16. Easiest dog I've ever had. :)

Its not about the breed of the dog it simply boils down to how the dog is raise and how well disciplined it is. I have had lots of dogs my favourite being Staffordshire bull terriers. Despite the media making them out to be viscous animals.

I can tell you they aren't and I have 3 at the moment and have been brought up with them since I was 8 years old with younger sibling. They are very loving, loyal dogs which in my opinion are excellent people dogs.

They are good with children hence the reason they are called "children's nanny's" as they used to lie on the children's feet to keep them warm in the early 1900's.

They don't need to be groomed very much and they are the cutest of pups. They also require some form of exercise so your 35 acres will come in handy as they are working dogs so like to do loads of running.

So with a lot of love and discipline you will not regret buying one of these dogs. No matter what breed of dog you get it is hard work as they are practically like having another baby around.

Good luck and happy dog hunting.

Its not about the breed of the dog it simply boils down to how the dog is raise and how well disciplined it is.

I agree and disagree with this.

Yes, a dog is only as good as its owner. But, there are breeds that aren't for a novice owner. I have a beagle. I would never recommend a beagle to a first time owner. They're great dogs, but they need an experienced hand, they need someone that knows dogs.

The poster of this questions has never owned a dog before. That's something that really has to be taken into consideration. He needs a breed that's easy to train, easy to handle, good with kids.

Thank you so much, you. I am leaning to a lab. They just seem so great. I have heard that they shed quite a bit. Is this true?

While it is true, the dog's personality parcially depends on how you bring it up, certain dogs are bred to do certain things, which can effect their personality. Take German Shepherds for example. They are looked opon as aggressive dogs. They are used as police dogs. They are protective, it's true, but with the right training, a German Shepherd is a great dog.

Once again,
Thanks!

Thank you so much, ya'll. I am leaning to a lab. They just seem so great. I have heard that they shed quite a bit. Is this true?

While it is true, the dog's personality parcially depends on how you bring it up, certain dogs are bred to do certain things, which can effect their personality. Take German Shepherds for example. They are looked upon as agressive dogs. They are used as police dogs. They are protective, it's true, but with the right training, a German Shepherd is a great dog.

Once again,
Thanks!

Please ignore Todds post. I've reported him to the mods, I'm sure he will be banned shortly. We don't tolerate trolls on this site. Hopefully when you read this, Todd's post will already be deleted.

I love German Shepherds, I think they're a beautiful breed. But, and this is a big but, I have been bitten only a few times in my life by dogs. Each time it's been by a German Shepherd. I've never ever been bitten by any other breed.

Also, a friend of my mother had a German Shepherd, and kids. When her daughter grew up and moved out, the GSD didn't take it well. They are very possessive of their families. The daughter had a baby. She came home to visit one day. It was a nice day, so she put the baby in her stroller, left the stroller on the deck in the yard so the baby could get some vitamin D. The GSD killed the baby. Took her out of her stroller and tore her to shreds. :(

German Shepherds are very protective, and they do not handle change well. I would not recommend a GSD for a novice owner.

Please ignore Todds post. I've reported him to the mods, I'm sure he will be banned shortly. We don't tolerate trolls on this site. Hopefully when you read this, Todd's post will already be deleted.

I love German Shepherds, I think they're a beautiful breed. But, and this is a big but, I have been bitten only a few times in my life by dogs. Each time it's been by a German Shepherd. I've never ever been bitten by any other breed.

Also, a friend of my mother had a German Shepherd, and kids. When her daughter grew up and moved out, the GSD didn't take it well. They are very possessive of their families. The daughter had a baby. She came home to visit one day. It was a nice day, so she put the baby in her stroller, left the stroller on the deck in the yard so the baby could get some vitamin D. The GSD killed the baby. Took her out of her stroller and tore her to shreds. :(

German Shepherds are very protective, and they do not handle change well. I would not recommend a GSD for a novice owner.

Oh my goodness! What a horrible story! Well, it is partly the mother's fault. You should never leave a baby alone with a dog but esspecially not a German Shepherd. In my experience with German Shepherds, they are very nice dogs. But not all dogs are nice...

Would you consider a Standard Poodle? They cover pretty well all bases you have described.

They don't have to be in fru-fru frilly trims, my poodles are just clipped off short all over. They are a great breed, very loving and loyal. They are active, yet just as happy to be a couch potato if you are having a lazy day.
The only downside is grooming, but a clip every 6 weeks is all you need and you can learn to do that yourself.

Oh my goodness! What a horrible story! Well, it is partly the mother's fault. You should never leave a baby alone with a dog but esspecially not a German Shepherd. In my experience with German Shepherds, they are very nice dogs. But not all dogs are nice......

I have to say, the other ones, the ones I was bitten by, I knew very well, and they had great owners, and were very well trained.

The first one was name Sarge. He was owned by the guy that owned the campsite we went to every weekend in the summer since I was 4.

That person also owned Sarge's mother, Amber.

I ran through the woods with these two dogs. I grew up with them. Every night when we were there, the would come to sit at our campsite. The would sleep under our trailer.

Then Amber died. After that Sarge was not the same dog. He not only bit me, but my dad, and he killed a dog that belonged to someone camping at the camp site.

After that Jim, the owner, had to put Sarge down, country style (back woods with a shotgun). :(

The other GSD belonged to a friend. In fact, it was the friend that owned the mom and dad of our lab cross puppy Indy. Marble (that was the name of the GSD), was a great dog.

Our friend owns a gas station, and that's where the dogs were kept. It's a gas station in the middle of nowhere. Acreage, trees everywhere, not a lot of people coming through. Marble had his own little haven. A dog house, a large area to run around, but he did have to be tied up during the day, there was a major highway not far from the station, and Marble had a tendency to run to it.

Our friend went out of town for a few days, left the staff in charge of the dogs. We decided to pop by to check on things. I went up to Marble, like I always did. He was happy to see me, tail wagging. When I got up to him, he suddenly turned aggressive and bit me, drew blood.

Even after that incident I still adored Marble, and never had another incident with him.

I love the breed, but I have to say, even as an experienced dog owner, I will never ever own a GSD. I respect those that do, and I'm not afraid of the breed, despite my experiences, but I don't trust them enough to own one.

Would you consider a Standard Poodle? They cover pretty well all bases you have described.

They don't have to be in fru-fru frilly trims, my poodles are just clipped off short all over. They are a great breed, very loving and loyal. They are active, yet just as happy to be a couch potato if you are having a lazy day.
The only downside is grooming, but a clip every 6 weeks is all you need and you can learn to do that yourself.

I have to say, I loved my poodle. I didn't have a standard, just a miniature. But he was a great dog.

Poodles are also bred to swim, so if the OP wants a dog that loves water, they're a great breed. :)

But, the hair is a little bit more maintenance then a lab. Just saying. :)

I have to say, I loved my poodle. I didn't have a standard, just a miniature. But he was a great dog.

Poodles are also bred to swim, so if the OP wants a dog that loves water, they're a great breed. :)

But, the hair is a little bit more maintenance then a lab. Just sayin. :)

True, but no hair on your couch and clothes with a poodle ;)

True, but no hair on your couch and clothes with a poodle ;)

So true. But, I have to say, I didn't really have that issue with Indy, our lab cross.

Labs tend to shed two times a year. The rest of the time it's not that big a deal. A little bit of shedding but no maintenance, other then two times a year. A good brushing, or a trip to a groomer, is all that's needed.

With a poodle we're talking a lot of grooming. If you can't do it yourself, you'll need to take the dog to the groomer at least every 6 weeks.

But they are very smart, quick to learn (well, most of them ;)).

I have a question about labs. Do they bloat? That is a major concern for me. I know many big dogs bloat, so I was just wondering. If labs do bloat, what are good ways to prevent it?

Thanks again!

-BearAndFox

Standard poodles are larege dogs. They can be stuffed when they die. My cousin stuffed his and took it to a glass place and had her made into an aquarium. It is very cool! I love poodles. Chihuahuas can be good also but only for 1 or 2 fish.

Todd, you're not welcome here. Just keep your idiotic thoughts to yourself.

If you want to stir the pot, be a troll, then find a site that welcomes that type of behavior. We don't welcome it here.

I've reported you over and over again. As soon as a mod comes online, I'm sure you'll be banned and all your posts will be deleted.

If you actually have something to contribute, other then bull, then you're more than welcome to stick around. Keep posting the crap you've been posting and you won't be given a choice.

You may think you're funny, but let me assure you, you're not at all amusing. You're nothing but a troll. It gets old fast.

I have a question about labs. Do they bloat? That is a major concern for me. I know many big dogs bloat, so I was just wondering. If labs do bloat, what are good ways to prevent it?

Thanks again!

-BearAndFox

I've never had an issue with bloating with either of my lab mixes, but there were mixes, not purebred labs.

All breeds have issues. You will never find a breed that doesn't have genetic issues, no matter how good the breeder is.

As for bloat. There really is nothing you can do to prevent it, as no one knows what really causes it. Research has shown that deep chested breeds are at a higher risk for bloat. It can happen at any age. There are signs that may indicate bloat, but, bloat can kill in as little as 6 hours after symptoms start.

If you see indications of bloat, vet care must be immediate. That day, that second. With immediate vet care, many dogs survive bloat.

Having said that, it's not a huge concern with labs. Not saying that labs are immune to bloat, but it's not something that would cause me concern. It's not something that would make me discount the lab breed.

Thank you for telling me that. I have heard how deadly it is to dogs, and so I was just wondering.

Thanks!
Bearandfox

PS:Thank you for trying to get rid of Todd. Psst... I have been reporting him, too.

Oh, and what are some of the symptoms?

Thank you for telling me that. I have heard how deadly it is to dogs, and so I was just wondering.

Thanks!
Bearandfox

PS:Thank you for trying to get rid of Todd. Psst....I have been reporting him, too.

Just ignore Todd. He's a troll. He posts for attention, and to make people mad. As soon as a moderator comes online, I'm sure Todd and all his posts will be gone. :)

Bloat is deadly, but so are many other things. Parvo is the number one killer in my opinion.

There will always be concerns, but with proper vet care, food, exercise, immunizations, you should be okay.

My lab cross lived to 16 years. That's very old for a larger breed dog. The larger the breed the shorter the life span. Most labs live to around 10-12 years of age.

It really depends on the dog, the owner, and the care. But, there will always be the risk that something you didn't expect could happen. It's the same with people though. Life will always be a gamble.

Wow! Your lab mix must have lived a long and healthy live. What did you do to keep her so healthy? How often do you recommend bringing labs to the vet? How many walks a day and how long? How often must you brush your lab? Is there any way to prevent elbow and hip displacia?

Thanks for all your help!
-Bearandfox

I'm a BIG German Shepherd fan. Great dogs and I've owned a number of them. They are dogs that need a leader, not for the faint of heart. I had one that bloated. My Vet told me any broad chested dog can bloat. Some breeds are more susceptible than others.

As far as biting - I'm a liability investigator. I investigate more Lab bites than any other breed. Part of it is that people just "assume" the dog is gentle and walk up to it. Part off it is that there are lots of labs out there.

Homeowners Insurance can be a problem - make certain that your company will insure you with whatever breed you get. "Pits" are an issue, also Dobermans and Rotts.

Oh, and what are some of the symptoms?

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CFIQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalspan.net%2Fbloat.htm&ei=B-_rT6q9KsKnrAGo_uXpBQ&usg=AFQjCNE1jX25JSalrEGp-Bu3U41aAbEoXg&sig2=_XVhznVP4RJ1Vbls3efbAw

Here's a great link explaining bloat, the symptoms, etc.

Don't let it scare you too much. Bloat is possible, but so are many things, for anyone, not only dogs.

You get what you get in life. Don't spend every waking minute worrying about possibilities that may never happen. When you get your puppy, or dog, enjoy every minute, make sure he/she gets the proper care, make sure you have the money set aside for unexpected vet bills, and do the very best for your dog, just like you would for your kids.

But don't let every single possibility scare you. If you do that then having a dog in your family won't be anything but stress. Trust me, puppies will and do get into all sorts of things. If I had a dime for every time one of my dogs ate something "deadly", or had symptoms of something "deadly", and I panicked, I would be rich. Not that I'm not concerned when it happens, I am, and a trip to the vet is always the first thing I do. But I've learned to accept that dogs are a lot more resilient then we think. Just like people. :)

Chances are that you'll have at least one huge vet bill during the life or your dog. He/she will swallow something, or have symptoms of something. But, most times a pets life isn't really that stressful. It's shots, spay or neuter, checkups, and the occasional worry about a swallowed chicken bone (feed cotton balls or bread and watch for choking), and other minor issues.

You could get a dog that has nothing but issues, it does happen. Just like some people have nothing but health problems. But that's not the norm, despite what you hear.

If you're prepared, and ready to accept that the vet will be a part of your dogs care, and that you will need to put aside money for anything unexpected that could occur, you'll be fine.

But most people have a long happy life with their fur babies.

Wow! Your lab mix must have lived a long and healthy live. What did you do to keep her so healthy? How often do you recomend bringing labs to the vet? How many walks a day and how long? How often must you brush your lab? Is there any way to prevent elbow and hip displacia?

Thanks for all your help!
-Bearandfox

I don't know if his long life was because of what we did, or just because of who he was.

We never fed our lab wet food, only dry dog food. When he died he had all of his own teeth, never once had them cleaned by the vet, and the vet always said, until the day he died "he has the teeth of a 2 year old dog". So I would highly recommend dry dog food, no matter what breed you choose.

We walked him every day, twice a day, for an hour or more when he was younger. When he started getting older he suffered from arthritis. For the last year or so of his life he no longer had daily walks. We left it up to him to choose when he felt well enough to go for a stroll.

We went for our yearly immunizations, and whenever we were concerned about his health. But I have to say, in all his 16 years, we only had a few emergencies. One was when he was hit by a car. Four hundred dollars just to go through the door of the emergency vet, because it happened on a weekend, only to be told that he was fine.

Another emergency trip was when we took him on a bike ride. Us on the bike, him running with us. We'd done it hundreds of times before. That day he stumbled and tore his paw pad. We rushed him to the vet. They cut off the paw pad, bandaged it, and within a few weeks the paw pad grew back. A paw pad is a lot like a human fingernail.

He suffered from seizures, which is a concern with labs. They are genetically predisposed to epilepsy. After medication, and a lot of stress, we saw a holistic vet that prescribed green beans. After we gave green beans he was seizure free for the last 8 years of his life, no other meds.

Other then that, his life was pretty uneventful health wise.

As for hip and elbow displacia, that's largely genetics. It really depends on where you get your puppy, and what testing they do. A legit breeder will test for genetic issues that are prominent in the breed they're breeding. If the two parents have no genetic predisposition to hip or elbow displacia, then it's not likely that they pups will have that disorder. That doesn't mean that it's impossible for that condition to be present though.

If you get a dog from a shelter, or a mixed breed, you won't know what the parents were like. But, mixed breeds usually have fewer issues, in my opinion. My border collie mix was a rescue, and our lab was not from a legit breeder, it was an oops litter from a friend. Both lived long happy lives.

You have described the ideal breed.

I have a lab and it's basically my dream dog.

I have a chocolate lab but when he was younger we sent him to a training camp for two weeks which helped a tonn! He came back a totally trained dog but he is so loyal and has grown up to be my best friend and he loves to snuggle! Labs are the most loyal dog breed there is and they are trainable but it's not all fun and games.

Remember to treat it fairly and like your best friend and he/she will become yours!

Labs are definitely best.

Thanks for that note. I guess I am over reacting a bit. Thanks!
Bearandfox

I do have to add. I've never owned a German Shepherd. All the GSD's I've been involved with were owned by others. I also have to add that my husband's one and only incident of biting was with his Aunts German Shepherd. They put the dog down because of that bite, it was the 4th bite from that dog, and my husbands incident ended with stitches. The only thing my husband had done to the dog was sit next to him in the grass on the farm his Aunt owned. I'm really not saying they're a bad breed. I'm just telling you my experiences. I love the GSD breed. They're gorgeous dogs. I'm not afraid of the breed, and I'm not against the breed. I think they're great dogs. Just not for a novice owner.

I also have to add that in the 16 years that Indy, our lab mix, was with us, he never so much as growled at us. He was 3 years old when the kids came along. My son learned to walk by pulling up on Indy. That poor dog put up with a lot, and never so much as snarled at either of the kids.

The kids in the neighborhood would climb on his back (something I put a stop to as soon as I saw it), and never so much as a mean look from Indy. They would take food out of his mouth. He'd just open his mouth and let them have whatever he was eating.

Three of our neighbors ended up getting labs because of Indy and his temperament. But again, he wasn't a purebred lab, but he was mixed with border collie another breed I would not recommend to a novice owner. ;)

He was by far the easiest dog I've ever had in my life. Easy to train, easy going, great temperament, and overall just a great family member.

Labs are abundant where I live, and they are the easiest dogs to adopt, and sadly the most easily found dogs in shelters because there are so many of them. Many of the larger breeds have restrictions, but not labs, at least not in my area. I can honestly say that in all my years working with dogs, and having dogs, I have not once had an issue with labs.

Thanks for that note. I guess I am over reacting a bit. Thanks!
Bearandfox

I wouldn't say you're over reacting. You're doing your research. That's very important.

In the end only you can choose the dog that fits your family and lifestyle the best. We can make recommendations, and we can alleviate some of your fears, but the choice is ultimately up to you.

I also have to say that every dog, despite the breed, is different. Just like people.

I've had two lab border collie crosses. Our Indy who was more lab than anything, and our Jasper that was more border collie than lab, and now we have our little Rascal, a 4 month old border collie mix. He may be even more pigheaded then our beagle, and I didn't think anyone could top Chewy (the beagle) for pigheadedness.

Indy and Jasper were both very easy to train, from puppyhood on. Rascal is proving to be a bit more difficult.

That's why I said to the other poster that I both agree and disagree that breed isn't everything. Breed does count for a lot. If you get a beagle, you can research the breed and know a bit of what to expect. For instance, beagles are not easily trained, they are hound dogs, scent dogs, and can never be let off leash no matter what. They are stubborn to a fault. The saying is "if you can survive the first year with a beagle you can handle anything". Sadly, most people get this breed because they see them on TV, they're cute as all get out, they're a smaller breed, great with kids, and have very few genetic health issues. But, once you get that puppy home, you realize it's not as easy to train a beagle as you thought. Many beagles are given away before they have their first birthday.

Our beagle is 3 years old, and he's the only dog I've ever had that's literally made me say "What the heck? What's wrong with you!" Stubborn to a fault, and I'm German, I know stubborn. ;)

A lot will depend on training, your knowledge, your ability to teach the dog. If you don't put in the time, no matter what breed you get, you won't have a great family member. But, some breeds are easier than others.

All those points I would point towards a Great Dane, except size of Golden Retriever and lifespan. :P But I'm biased.
I guess I'm the only one not on the lab bandwagon, haha

All those points I would point towards a Great Dane, except size of Golden Retriever and lifespan. :P But I'm biased.
I guess I'm the only one not on the lab bandwagon, haha

Don't feel bad Sariss.. I'm not a lab fan either. Every single lab I have ever met has been completely out of control!

Speaking of bloat and GDV.. there are ways to help prevent it that I think ALL dog owners of ALL dog breeds should practice.. First.. don't feed your dog one meal a day. Feed twice a day (morning and night). If you exercise your dog first thing in the morning, don't feed before the exercise and wait about 1-2 hours before feeding after exercise. If you purchase a breed that is prone to this, such as Great Danes, Goldens and other "deep" chested breeds, you can purchase food and water bowls that are raised. Also with these specific breeds (or mixes of), at time of spay or neuter, have their stomachs tacked to the wall of their body. Tacking the stomach isn't going to prevent it from ever happening, the chances of it happening are very low.

A great family dog, in my opinion, would be an older rescue dog. A dog that is already house trained and good with kids and other pets. With an older dog, say 2-5, any genetic medical problems would have surfaced by this time. Their personality is set in stone and what you purchase is what you get. There are so many great dogs out there that would be perfect for your family. Don't get suckered into the mindframe that you have to purchase a puppy. Puppies are a lot of work and if you don't do the right things at the right moments in their lives, they can grow up to have a lot of serious behavior problems. I'm not trying to scare you away from wanting to adopt a puppy, but I also know that busy people with full time schedules with the best intentions for a young puppy, doesn't always pan out well.

You shouldn't base your search on the type of breed. You should base your search on the personality of the dog, what you are wanting from a dog and so on. German Shepherds are working dogs. They need to work. Labs and Goldens are hunting dogs.. They also need to work and they need an outlet for their high energy. A lot of people think a big back yard is the ticket, its not. You need to stimulate these dogs... make them do something.

A good way to get your foot in the door with what dog would best suit you and your family, would be to go to the shelter and meet some dogs. Call some rescues of the breeds you are considering and ask to come meet them... you may not like a lab... They are extremely bouncy...

My opinion.. a good first time dog... would be an older mixed breed... if you find a purebred, that's fine too.. but I think older is what first time dog owners should get. Its less stressful, you know what you're getting into and a majority of the genetic problems would have shown up.

Speaking of bloat and GDV.. there are ways to help prevent it that I think ALL dog owners of ALL dog breeds should practice.. First.. dont feed your dog one meal a day. Feed twice a day (morning and night). If you exercise your dog first thing in the morning, dont feed before the exercise and wait about 1-2 hours before feeding after exercise. If you purchase a breed that is prone to this, such as Great Danes, Goldens and other "deep" chested breeds, you can purchase food and water bowls that are raised. Also with these specific breeds (or mixes of), at time of spay or neuter, have their stomachs tacked to the wall of their body. Tacking the stomach isnt going to prevent it from ever happening, the chances of it happening are very low.


Could you address this a little more - I had a GSD, bloated and "flipped" 3 times, despite tacking. I've been told high food and water bowls. I've been told low food and water bowls. Eat twice a day. Eat once a day. Don't give too much water. Don't limit the water.

The ONLY thing I do is I don't allow playtime after they eat. The eat - they're quiet for at least 3 hours. No more eat and then play catch (which my neighbors do).

I am aware of the genetic factor - my dog's mother and one of his littermates bloated and died.

I never know the right answer for this - I know you know. What is the current feeling?

My GSD is currently 138# (down from 150) and my Rott puppy is growing like crazy! I think about it every now and then.

I find Labs to be crazy puppies and good adult dogs. The worst dog bite I've ever worked was a - what are the Japanese bear hunting dogs? Stalked a child and actually ripped his scalp off. I've never seen such injuries.

Worse attack I've ever worked was a St. Bernard that snapped - literally snapped.

I worked some sort of Pit mix that broke through a window, attacked a child, got pulled off, attacked again - neighbor ended up stabbing the dog to end the mayhem.

I think the greatest dog in the world with the wrong owners turns into a dangerous dog.

Anyway - I'm babbling. I'd like to know what you know about bloat.

I find Labs to be crazy puppies and good adult dogs. The worst dog bite I've ever worked was a - what are the Japanese bear hunting dogs? Stalked a child and actually ripped his scalp off. I've never seen such injuries.

Worse attack I've ever worked was a St. Bernard that snapped - literally snapped.

I worked some sort of Pit mix that broke through a window, attacked a child, got pulled off, attacked again - neighbor ended up stabbing the dog to end the mayhem.

I think the greatest dog in the world with the wrong owners turns into a dangerous dog.

Anyway - I'm babbling. I'd like to know what you know about bloat.

I'll wait for Lucky to address the bloat issue, because I'm very interested as well. I've never had an issue with bloat, but we do have our new pup, and you never know. Any info to help prevent it would be good.

I do have to say that I agree with you when it comes to lab puppies. They're insane. But I have to say that beagles are worse. Love my beagle with all my heart, he's such a love, and I adore him, but during his first year there were many times when I wondered what I had gotten myself into. Now that he's 3 years old he's settled and become a great family dog, but we do still have issues that I never had with any of my other dogs. Walking for one. Walking Chewy is not at all fun. It's frustrating, and annoying. We're working on it, but beagles have the attention span of a gnat. The only thing that works with them is food, they're food driven. But, if their attention is diverted by an interesting smell, or something else (for Chewy it's other dogs), you could have a steak around your neck and he won't notice.

Both the labs I've had have been mixes, which is most likely why I never had any of the normal lab complaints or issues.

But, both of those mixes were lab and border collie. I definitely would never recommend a border collie to a novice owner. Great dogs, very intelligent, but boy oh boy, if you don't keep them amused, they'll eat your entire house, bricks included. Little stinkers, and love them to bits. :)

I do agree that any dog, no matter how great the temperament, and no matter what the breed, can become a "bad" dog if it doesn't have a good owner. One of the worst bites I've ever seen, thankfully I wasn't the one bitten, was my Aunt's teacup poodle. This little guy was 2 pounds soaking wet, and vicious. My Aunt made him that way. Not on purpose, but that really doesn't matter. She never hit him, she wasn't abusive, she was just possessive. No one but her could get near the dog. One day my cousin tried to pet Rocky and Rocky bit him so hard on the finger that his teeth met in the middle. My cousin ended up losing the tip of his finger.

Not the worst bite in history, but considering the size of the dog, it was pretty darn bad.

I wasn't asked but I'll ad my 2 cents anyway hehe.

Bloat can be treated providing treatment begins to MINUTE symptoms start. So as long as you know your dogs behaviours and know the signs to watch out for.
Products like de-gass can be given to try and disperse the gass in the stomach BEFORE the twisting begins. The twisting is caused by a build up of too much gass.

Once twisting begins however there is no choice but to go to the vet. And even after administering de-gass medication you still should be on your way... The medication can just help buy you a little extra time.

Tacking the stomach is a waste of time. If the dog is bloating tacking can actually make the fdamage worse. If the pressure in the stomach is enough the stomach will twist with or without tacks, and with tacks they can rip out the lining of the abdomen and cause muscle damage.

They CAN help if you notice the symptoms straight away as they can hold off the twisting for a period but the window IMO is not worth the pain the dog goe sthrough having the procedure done.

Bloat is genetic, there is no proof of that, but every case I have seen in purebred dogs has had some link to it's ancestors. Some lines can be completely free of the problem, other run rampant with it.
My parents have had Great Danes for over 20 years and have never had a dog bloat. Yet a friend of hers with dogs from another kennel has had at least half a dozen bloat over the years.

There is no proof as to what helps/doesn't help but there are a lot of theories which I believe to be correct...

Feeding twice a day and not big meals. This is so when the food digests in the dogs stomach it isn't a huge amount of gas.

No plain dry food for large/giant breeds. This is because of the dry food swelling in the stomach, again, creating gasses. Dry food combined with wet is fine, but never dry food by itself.

Feeding from an elevated bowl. This is to prevent the dog gulping down huge amounts of air as it lifts the food from its bowl. If you have ever watched a large breed eat from a bowl on the floor, they tend to quickly flick the food up and then snap at at befoew swallowing.

No large amounts of water. I am unsure as to the exact reasoning on this one, I just go off how I feel after I have been for a run and then have a huge glass of water, it makes your stomach feel awful.

No exercise at least an hour after meals. Again with the gasses and twisting.

Shazzy, your two cents are always welcome.

In fact, the experts on this site, you, Bella, Paleo, Lucky, Lady Sam, Judy, and I know I've missed some, are the people I go to first when I have issues with my dogs. I no longer trust my vet, especially since the cottonball thing! Just in case you didn't read about it, Rascal got a hold of chicken bones. We tried cottonballs, he wouldn't take them (the dog that ate half my couch would eat cottonballs!), so we did the bread. Long story short, he was fine. But when I mentioned it to our very young vet, she was shocked that I would try cottonballs, she said that it made no sense. I told her to research it. She did, and admitted she was wrong. She's a vet! She should know more than I do!

This is the vet that treated Jasper. Now I have nightmares about it. I wonder if Jasper could have survived had we had a different vet. But that's done. I realize that. Still, it haunts me. :(

I go to all of you first. I trust you all far more than I do my vet. I never expect a diagnosis, or treatment, but what you all have to say is far more reliable than anything else, in my opinion.

Just saying. :)

Like Shaz I think it has a lot to do with the dog itself, but some breeds are more predisposed, the deep chested and giant breeds. Great Danes, deep chested setters, Goldens etc.
We haven't seen a bloat at our clinic in about a year (knock on wood) but believe it or not, on average over the years have seen more Rotties with bloat than any other breed. The youngest being 6 months old, that same pup bloated again within a year, his parents are very careful now. And Rotties are pretty low on the list of dogs predisposed.
I've heard, bowl up, bowl down, larger bowl or baking pan to force the dogs eat slower and not gulp air.
For the very reasons mentioned in Shazs' post, our surgeons don't do the gastropexy.

Oops, no one asked me either.

Any way I'm a big fan of mixed breeds myself.
And beagles, but as you've already heard they can be a hand full.

Any way I'm a big fan of mixed breeds myself.
And beagles, but as you've already heard they can be a hand full.

I love all my dogs, every single one, but I do have to say, the mixes have been a lot easier than the purebreds.

Beagles are a breed that stands far from any other. They're dumber than a post (I say that with affection), almost impossible to train. But they're so loving that you overlook all of that.

We love our beagle Chewy. He's a great family member. But boy oh boy, he's a handful! ;)

Then again, we have a puppy in the house. I have to say, the puppy stage is making Chewy look like like the best dog ever. :)

I'm betting right about now Chewy is a little Tri-colored angel
Boy, I miss my stubborn old Sam. He was one of the most trying, lovable, pouty, beautiful little guys ever.

I have bigger, broaded chested GSDs than mine that twisted and needed surgery. I think genetics have to play a big part.

He was saved by a great Vet and a wonderful Vet Assistant who actually slept at the Vet Hospital the first night. They were wonderful, caring people. I still remember so very well. My dog, Bandit, wasn't eating, wasn't responding, stayed facing the back of the kennel. They told me not to come in because leaving would upset him more. After several days they said I should come in - he wouldn't eat or drink, he'd been on IVs too long. I packed up shredded chicken and went in with my heart in my mouth. There he was, in the back of his kennel (and he was a big dog), facing the wall. I said his name and he picked his head up, pulled himself around without standing up, saw me and crawled through the kennel to me. I went in with him and he put his head on me and sighed. I will never, ever forgot the look on his face. I'm sure he thought I wasn't coming back. I went in twice a day and fed him by hand. He got stronger and came home and lived for 11 more years.

But, oh, that look - I learned that if you can possibly visit - visit.

Spreading the rep really sucks! Just fyi.

I think genetics play a large role too.

I dislike having to tell clients that they should not visit their animal because they will expect to go home and get depressed when it doesn't happen. Or we are afraid they will disrupt the sutures from a recent surgery if they get too excited.
That's when a caring staff is sooo valuable as you know.

Bowls up, bowls down, everyone has different opinions.
My Dane's bowl is halfway raised. If it is raised too much he eats far too fast and will therefore gulp. If it's too low he has to bend down a lot, and although this means he eats slower and doesn't gulp, I fear for his neck getting sore.

The main idea is rest. Half an hour before, and at least an hour after eating.

As far as tacking goes - from what we have seen it helps. None of our pexy'd dogs have ever twisted at the clinic. The ones that twist aren't tacked - and we tack them once we have to go in surgically - and then from then on while some have bloated again they never twist. You just need to do it right.

I never heard about rest BEFORE - good to know. Thank you.

My GSD was stapled after he twisted and it never happened again - but, of course, he never ran after eating/drinking again.

Yeah that part is kind of hard. After his morning walk Apollo is PUMPED for his breakfast, and sad once he remembers he has to wait.

I don't think I have anything new to say than what has already been said about preventing GDV.

Although none of my dogs are deep chested and the breeds that are not prone to GDV, I always wait 3 hours for them to eat after a good run. I never feed them before exercise either. And so far I've never had even a scare.

If you purchase a pup that is going to be at risk of bloat and twisting, I'd recommend to get the stomach tacked down at time of spay/neuter. I learned that from school and I learned that from working in the veterinary field. If you happen to adopt a dog with a deep chest or a breed that is prone to it.. I'd recommend for them to have the surgery as well. Its just safer and won't cost you a ton of money in the long run.

I was also told that dogs who are prone to GDV to feed food that's been soaked in water. The food has already expanded and won't expand in the stomach which can cause GDV.

Feeding twice a day or small meals throughout the day.. or if your dog isn't going to be a piggy, free-feeding, will prevent GDV. The idea behind it, is the stomach doesn't go from small to large in a matter of minutes. I like feeding twice a day because I think of myself.. I know I wouldn't want to be starving all day long than engorging myself... I know that wouldn't make me feel good, so I'm sure it doesn't make the dogs feel good either.

Some dogs are just prone to it no matter what we do to ensure it doesn't happen. Just take all measures to ensure it doesn't happen.

Classic symptoms are pale mucous membranes, excessive water intake. Unproductive vomiting (dry heaves), uninterested in food.. in severe cases, extended abdomen... and if you're real in touch with your dog, they just look miserable

Also.. on a side note.. if your dog is a gulper.. put large rocks in their bowls, hand feed, or spread it out on a large pan. Gulping food is also a good way for a dog to get bloated.. I'm sure there are more tricks out there to prevent gulping..

Classic symptoms are pale mucous membranes, excessive water intake. Unproductive vomiting (dry heaves), uninterested in food.. in severe cases, extended abdomen... and if you're real in touch with your dog, they just look miserable

Now this is scaring me. This was Jasper! But the vet never even suggested it could be GDV. The gulping water, the extended abdomen, no interest in food, dry heaves, and not so dry heaves (but we thought it was because he was literally devouring the water, too fast, to the point where we had to take it away, because he wouldn't stop drinking, and couldn't keep it down. He couldn't keep anything down?

Am I reading too much into this?

Now I'm really questioning things. I know it doesn't change anything, we lost him and knowing why won't change that, but looking back, these were the symptoms, and we took him to the vet twice, and nothing that was done helped, even with x-rays and blood work and everything.

If it was GDV, shouldn't it have been detectable, and would he have had a chance, even though he was so far gone when we finally decided to end it? Would another vet have been able to do more than the one we saw? Would we still have our Jasper?

This twenty twenty hindsight really isn't good for me. Like I said, doesn't change anything now, but damn! :(

Abdominal x-ray would have shown trapped air. It's actually pretty profound in most cases.
I know it won't change anything, like you said, but here is what it would have looked like.

GDV in Dogs: Canine Gastric Dilation and Volvulus | Suite101.com (http://suite101.com/article/gdv-in-dogs-a55973)

Sam, the vet said there was nothing but air in his stomach, but that was because he wasn't eating. Could she have meant trapped air?

I don't know why I'm asking. Knowing now won't do anything. It's over, it's done, Jasper is gone. Nothing will bring him back.

But, this vet is now Rascals vet, and truth told, I don't trust her. If Jasper hadn't gone downhill so quickly I would have gone to a different vet.

I guess I'm just beating myself up. Doesn't really serve a purpose considering that he's gone.

Also, please don't get me wrong. We love our new little Rascal so much. I have to believe that everything happens for a reason. If we hadn't lost Jasper, we wouldn't have Rascal. Not that I'd trade one for the other, but that's sort of the point. We made the best decision we could with the info we had, and that has led us to this point. This point is great. We miss Jasper, and Indy, but we love Chewy and Rascal so much too. Every one of them has a special place in my heart, and always will.

I just still wonder. Even though it serves no purpose.

Don't beat yourself up you did for him what you thought was best because you loved him.
No doubt in my mind that he felt that love and loved you unconditionally in return.
Many things I would change if I could turn back time, loving an animal and having that returned tenfold for his/her entire life is not one of them.

Don't beat yourself up you did for him what you thought was best because you loved him.
No doubt in my mind that he felt that love and loved you unconditionally in return.
Many things I would change if I could turn back time, loving an animal and having that returned tenfold for his/her entire life is not one of them.

Thanks Lady Sam.

If I had to do it over again, I would do the same, I'd end his suffering.

I have to believe that there was nothing we could do, I have to trust the vet that much at least. But I can say that I won't be trusting her in the future. Yesterday Rascal got his last set of puppy shots, and I requested a different vet for those shots.

I know her well, she's the rabbit specialist at the clinic, and the only one I trust with my rabbits. Didn't know we'd be getting her, so when she walked into the room I was a bit shocked.

Turns out that I didn't know her as well as I thought. She breeds rabbits, knows everything about them (which I knew), but also specializes in dogs. In fact, she has a dog (3 years old) that could be Rascals twin. She does agility with him. So we had a bit of a chat. I told her I wanted to get Rascal into agility, and she gave me a number to call, the trainer she goes to.

I'm feeling good about her for our dogs, as well as our rabbits.

Also, the vet tech we had yesterday was the best ever. She let Sydney (my daughter) listen to Rascal's hear beat, she trimmed his nails, and taught me to be a bit more comfortable about doing so myself. It's funny, I have no problem cutting the rabbits nails, in fact, all four of them take me around 15 minutes to trim. I just sit them in my lap and snip snip snip. But since an incident with Indy (he had very dark nails) where I cut the qwik, I'm nervous about cutting the dogs nails. In fact, I can't even watch it being done. Now I feel better about it.

All in all, I'm feeling better about our vet clinic, if I can ask for that vet tech and that vet. :)

Alty, EVERYTHING serves a purpose. I always figure somewhere there's a big blueprint and we're all just following it.

Second guessing? I do it all the time. You know that. With my dogs. With my late husband. How do you know when to let go? You simply make a decision based on what you know at that moment in time and the rest is pretty much fate.

Oh Alty! Don't beat yourself up over it. Jasper lived a good, long life.. that is more than any dog could ask for.

Unless GDV is caught right away, its very fatal. Even if the dog makes it through surgery, recovery is still up and down. Whether your vet saw bloat and didn't diagnose it or not, we will never know :( Unfortunately...

But.. there are other things that mimic the symptoms of GDV... In March, I thought my old girl was having an episode of bloat. She didn't want to eat, didn't want to drink, felt uncomfortable and her belly was extended. I rushed her into the vet and abdominal x-rays showed a normal stomach but a dark, fluidy pocket. She had hemangiosarcoma of the spleen and the tumor burst open and was leaking. Typically a very aggressive form of cancer, I decided to give her 24 hours to improve with subq fluids before deciding on surgery.. she did improve... and she is still with me today :) missing a spleen, of course lol

But I know how you feel about maybe not making the right decision. I've been there and I have definitely learned how things should have been. Its not my fault, my mom's fault.. and it is definitely not your fault for what you decided to do with you Jasper. Things happen :( It sucks... but they do happen. He may not have had GDV or any form of it.. he may have had a tumor that spread quickly... sometimes tumors aren't easy to find with a regular x-ray machine.. and unfortunately if the vet doesn't see a reason to send you to a specialty hospital, they won't.

Its all a tough call.. and like I've said for a few years now.. it is so hard to find a good vet...

But just know that you did everything right for Jasper.. your vet may have not been 100% for your case.. but with him crashing and burning so fast, I'm not certain that anyone else could have done better... And I don't mean that in a bad or mean way..

You said he limped... Osteosarcoma is what I think of.. and this is a very fast moving, aggressive cancer. And he may have had it for a long time but no one knew until it was too late.. That's the crappy thing about dogs... they're so good at hiding pain and discomfort until its literally too late.

Just don't beat yourself up.. If you feel as if you need a different vet, than by all means do so.. just don't blame yourself for not doing enough...

Thank you everyone. You've made me feel better. Bottom line, it's too late, and second guessing, wondering what if, won't change anything.

My husband said to me that he believes this all happened for a reason. Indy and Jasper are together, that's what we believe, and it had to be that way in order for Rascal to come into our lives. Everything was meant to happen the way it did.

We miss Indy and Jasper so much, but Chewy and Rascal are loved just as much as Indy and Jasper were. They're family.

One thing Jasper has taught me, more than any other dog I've ever had, is that you never know when life will take a turn. You have to enjoy every moment you have. A dogs life is too short to begin with, and every day is precious.

So we're living, and finding things to smile about, which isn't hard when you have a clumsy puppy in your home. :)

Thank you all for your imput.

Thank you all for your imput.

Let us know what breed you decide on.

I have decided on a lab. Thank you so much, everybody, for helping. I esspecially thank Alty, who continuously helped me again and again. Thank you so much, everybody!

I have decided on a lab. Thank you so much, everybody, for helping. I esspecially thank Alty, who continuously helped me again and again. Thank you so much, everybody!

I hope you come back to post pictures when you get your new puppy. We love pictures, especially puppy pictures. :)

If you ever need any help, especially with training, feeding, anything, we're here.

I will try to post puppy pictures. Thanks again for everybody's help!