My boyfriend and I are in our mid-twenties and have been together for almost five years. During the second year in our relationship, I walked in on him masturbating to video pornography. Up until that time, I had genuinely thought that explicit video pornography was reserved for sexual deviants and not something that the average person uses. Hence, when it happened I didn't know how to respond and put the whole thing out of my mind.

Since then, I genuinely hadn't given the issue any thought until a couple of months ago when I saw my boyfriend's computer on the bed next to a box of tissues. When I flipped up the screen there was a POV pornographic video of a woman pretending to give him a blow job. At which point he walked over and closed the computer. I tried to talk about it then but he didn't want to. A couple weeks later when I used the computer another pornographic website was in the url bar. At that point, I decided to snoop (wrong, I know) and have since found a stash of pornography on his computer and external hard drive. He also seems to regularly visit websites.

I have always found pornography offensive and now that my boyfriend is regularly using it, I feel hurt and disgusted by it. From the dates on his files, he has been consistently downloading pornography throughout our relationship. What's more is that I have often felt sexually neglected by him, having to practically beg for that kind of attention and frequently getting turned down. Until now, I have never been angry with him because I loved him and I didn't want my concerns to cause him to feel inadequate, less masculine, etc. I would be upset about the porn anyway, but now that I know he has always regularly used it, I’m starting to wonder if this isn’t reducing his interested in me and that is making me somewhat angry about our sex life.

At any rate, I explained my feelings to him, making sure not to attack or pressure, and he agreed, without me asking, to no longer use video porn. To support him, I gave him a Playboy (I don't mind pictures, only the videos because the videos are so explicit). However, I was on his computer last week and saw that he had been searching for more porn. He claims not to have but everything is dated. I have been to a multitude of discussion boards and advice websites, and consulted some friends, but cannot seem to decide how to feel or approach the issue. Much of what I have read says that I need to just accept his use of porn, however, I think that this sad. Women should not be told they have to accept men who feel like their girlfriend's/wife's feelings matter less than their 'masturbation enhancers.' Perhaps I am living in the wrong time (either too early or too late, who’s to say which was or will be better) to expect such respect but I think it is entirely fair.

I want this relationship to work (we are actually discussing marriage) but I don’t want to accept the video pornography. Your perspective?

Well even while you were involved phsically he was still watching and downloading porn.so when you marry him do you seriously believe that will change? Absoleutely not... even in a very serious relationship guys still enjoy to watch porn and its normal... but if your boyfriend is addicted to it then its not... in a relationship to work people do sacrifice but nothing should be forced... this should come out of love... and I would say that your boyfriend even lied to you... maybe you are being a little too judgemental or may be he's addicted... try to find the real answer... also try to relax and not feel bad about it or if it is a problem then have a final talk and if it doesn't works out then move on

This is but a test of how well you two can work together through honest communications if you can resolve your issues to the benefit of you both. We all have flaws, none of us is perfect, so keep an open mind and talk to each other and see if its an acceptable compromise.

Just as he should respect your feelings, so must you respect his. So start talking, NOT demanding, judging, or making threats or playing games. All these things fail, and make things worse so just tal, and be willing to listen.

Its okay if things don't happen immediately, just keep working at it. Personally, within reason you should respect his privacy, and not make this about JUST you, or what you think you are missing.

Generally a lack of sex is about other areas of your lives that have problems and if you are distracted by taking this personally, then you will miss the REAL problem to be solved and make the conflict worse and produce nothing but anger, resentments, and LIES!

Talk honestly, and LISTEN with an open mind. Get facts before you act. And don't rush to judge because of just feelings. Are you against masturbation, or HBO movies? You have been together 5 years and now this is an issue?? Something is off here, and its more than just porn.

I have posted many other responses about porn and how porn isn't something that men intend to demean or insult the woman they love, how it's not about YOU or how much they love you or find you attractive (it's normal/healthy to fantasize and men are visually stimulated). Many women enjoy porn or even romance novels (have you ever imagined sexy scenes in your mind?) I'm not even going to go there this time. Instead I'm going to tell you something you will need to know about this relationship which will apply to more than just porn: (whether it's what he does with his body or his views about life)

You can't change someone's nature, behaviour or choices -- and you're heading down a slippery slope of expectation if you think that's ANY of your business. You can "He should" until you're blue in the face and it still doesn't change the fact that you can't impose your ideology on someone else. If you try to hammer someone else to your will -- you might temporarily succeed out of fear that you'll leave them or withdraw your very conditional love... but in the end they will lie, slip back into old behaviours and/or resent you. Is that what you want your relationship to feel like?

Communicate - have the intention to love (and assume love) with your partner and start thinking about how your way isn't the only way... and it has nothing to do with "Well if he loved me enough he'd know that my wants are more important than his" (which is EXACTLY what you're saying) - That's not love at all.

Accept him (and change your thoughts about porn) or leave him. Those are your choices.

I have to disagree with you. Perhaps you can't change someone's inherent nature, but people can change their choices and behaviors. Long time smokers are capable of quitting as are alcoholics capable of sobering up. Therefore, I do believe that changes can be made. And I don't think this is an addiction so it is do-able.

You have also made it sound like I delivered an ultimatum which is not what happened. I tried to talk about with him, figure out what it is that he's getting from the pornography. When I began the discussion, he volunteered to give it up (I had never even asked anything of the like nor implied that it was necessary for us to be together and be happy.) I simply wanted to open a discussion about it. Make it not secretive and see if we could work with it. I also just wanted to see if maybe there wasn't something he was wanting but was afraid to discuss with me.

Furthermore, I'm not hammering away at him demanding drastic changes. As I said, I tried to talk about it (I wasn't angry, confrontational or blaming him in any way). I would prefer for him to never look at another woman of course, but it is male and female nature to think of other people sexually. Thus even though I don't like the magazines, I do want him to be happy so I went with magazines as a compromise. I really don't think my wants are any more important than his (evidenced by the bit of sexual history I outlined).

I have changed my thoughts about porn to the point when I can accept the magazines and he can do whatever he wants with those and I won't be upset. But why can't he meet me part of the way too and think "okay, I could give up the videos." Besides, you just said people don't change. So why should it be any more plausible that I would change to accept video pornography if you're saying he can't change to using only magazines? Why do you think him changing isn't a realistic option?

People can change... but *you* cannot change them or ask them to change. The only person you can change or have control over is you. You're rationalizing your desire to change and control him "just a little" (only magazines?) because you weren't angry or confrontational but you're still being controlling and expecting him to modify his behaviour because of your irrational fear that porn has something to do with you. You are still inserting yourself into something that is his own private "alone" time which for some reason you want to be involved in (let's discuss! Let's compromise! Let's not have this be a secret so I can be involved in it) because it helps you feel in control of his sexuality.

You don't have to be an accusatory wild woman to be controlling... the mere fact that you have a negative emotional reaction to his private personal business is enough. He may try to change himself because he loves you - but he shouldn't have to change himself out of fear and doing this always leads to resentment or lying (watch and see!) later on.

Porn doesn't take away from his sexual attraction to you or his feelings -- it's just something guys do and it's a way to release tension - it's his body and his private sexuality. You have yours, he has his. Porn might help him feel closer to you and having his personal "Alone" time is healthy. On the other hand, fighting about porn, discussing it and you making him responsible for your happiness is not something that brings him closer.

Don't worry about porn being some scary thing that means he's fantasizing about other women or wishing you were more like the porn. That's not what happens. You're in control of your thoughts about what "porn" means and whether to be threatened by it. If you are confident you don't need to control him or worry about this topic.

Because he can't share this idea that pictures are better than videos - in the long run he won't stick to your "compromise" it makes no sense. Why should he? That would be the same as if he said you could read romance novels but not watch romantic television shows --- wouldn't you find that ridiculous - right?

Also... how would you feel if someone tried to be involved in a committee meeting about how YOU spent your fantasy time... wanting to know what you were up to, what you were using, what you were thinking about and letting you know what was OK and what wasn't OK with them.

?

Just typing that out feels wrong!

This isn't really a committee meeting and I'm not trying to have people tell me what should and shouldn't be okay behavior for my boyfriend to engage in. I just wanted to find a way to see things from a perspective I might otherwise not. And I can't make him do anything he doesn't want to do. If he really feels like he can't or shouldn't give that up, then that's fine. It would be really painful to hear him say that and afterward I would have to make some decisions about us.

Yet I see a compromise as fair. Being in a relationship of any kind means that you aren't doing things always as you want, or independently. If we never worried about making the other person happy, then relationships would never work. No matter how good a match a couple might be, there will always be something that they have to discuss or work out. And so maybe porn is it's own unique individual activity where people don't ever discuss problems surrounding it. It's only the things not related to pornography that we should discuss? I really feel as though you aren't so much offering me potential solutions as you are telling me I'm wrong for having my feelings hurt that he has vivid imaginary sex with other women. Or is it just that I told him it makes me sad?

Perhaps it would help you to understand my perspective when I say I don't read romance novels and while I do look at other men and think "wow, he has a nice smile or great body" or some such thing, I don't sexually fantasize about other people. I also do not masturbate. These things come from being raised in a conservative fashion and I intentionally did not include them when I first wrote because I figured the automatic response would be that I'm frigid (when, in fact, I have been nothing but willing).

Also, just because someone is doing something during their alone time, that doesn't mean that it's always okay. And, returning to the earlier point, that being in a relationship means that you can't just shut people out of things and say "that's mine alone." Otherwise (I state again) it's not a relationship.

I would never force him to change. I would never demand he give it up or I'll leave or never have sex again or any such thing. I wouldn't want him to make that decision out of fear. I would, however, be happy if he makes that decision because he realizes that okay, fine, maybe to him it's just a fantasy (a way to get his desire to have sex with other women out without actually doing it or however the use of porn is explained) but that it genuinely hurts me. And still your idea that either the porn is accepted or the relationship ends is a way of forcing me to make a decision is it not? I guess you see me as the problem here but from my perspective the problem is the porn.

The problem is how the BOTH of you resolve your issues. Doesn't matter what the issue is, its still up to the two of you. It may take years. When you stop talking, listening and working, THEN its over. Till then, keep talking and be good to each other.

This is only as big a deal as you make it, or until a bigger one comes along. Stay willing to talk/listen with an open mind. You're both on a journey, together, or apart, you can only talk to know which it will be.

1) porn is not the problem -- it can only be a problem if you allow it to be (You say he loves you and has a healthy relationship with you, attends to his daily life and doesn't have an addiction) - its your thoughts and beliefs about porn that cause you pain. If it wasn't a big deal to you -- you could assume Love and know your hubby loved you, you'd move on to making dinner, having talks about important things, and growing closer. God forbid your hubby would die tomorrow, - would "porn" be the first thing on your mind in remembrance of your bond?

2)
"I don't sexually fantasize about other people. I also do not masturbate. These things come from being raised in a conservative fashion " --- That's fine, -- but realise that not everyone shares this viewpoint about their bodies and your hubby obviously does not. Are you projecting your upbringing on to him?

3) YES! There are things that are "mine alone" in a healthy relationship! When I said "committee meeting" I meant you and he... simply put; -you are involving yourself in what he does with his own private fantasy life and masturbatory habits. You think just because you're a spouse you are privy to every aspect of his life and can dictate that magazines are OK but videos aren't; - that's unhealthy. Partners share with one another, trust each-other implicitly with the deepest part of their beings but there are some things that are only his and only yours. It's normal for people to have a little private fantasy that they do not share with their mates. You can talk about those things with each other, he may be very interested in talking and even sharing this part of his life.. but you should not think it's your right to moderate his private guy-time.

4)
" It's only the things not related to pornography that we should discuss? " Discussing anything and everything in a relationship is a good idea - it's GREAT! That's how we learn and bond. By all means keep communicating. But there's a difference between being open to learn about your partner's views and experience when you communicate and only being willing to share what you want them to do, think and be. One is open and the other is controlling. For example; - how do you know he's having "imaginary sex with other women" by looking at porn? I've seen porn and never once was I imagining replacing my spouse or taking part in the action. Have you asked what porn means to him? Are you willing to hear a version of reality that isn't yours? Unless you're willing to see his side of things and not just how he's hurting you by not doing what you want.

5)
"And still your idea that either the porn is accepted or the relationship ends is a way of forcing me to make a decision is it not?" A relationship asks you to make a decision to love your partner and assume they love you at every hour of the day. You accept the porn, or you have conflict and distance. It's as simple as that. If you can't live with porn... then you have to find someone who shares your viewpoint. You're the one who said that if hubby didn't want to give up porn,
"If he really feels like he can't or shouldn't give that up, then that's fine. It would be really painful to hear him say that and afterward I would have to make some decisions about us" 'decisions about us' implies that if you don't get your way you'll withdraw yourself because you didn't get your way.

Hmm at the end of the day it's down to how you feel.. And this is making you upset. I can't say that you getting upset about this is nothing! Because it wouldn't upset me... Tha would be projecting.

So. Tell your boyfriend how you feel.. Really feel don't be so diplomatic make a point see if the two of you can work this out together as a couple..
If not then I would change the relationship to someone who has a similar understanding of your sexual views

You have a lot of good advice on here.. Instead of going back and forth with us.. Talk to your boy.

Thanks for all of the advice. I'll keep it in mind when we talk (which, if he's willing, will be soon).

If anybody else has anymore to add, I would have course welcome the help.

Thanks for all of the advice. I'll keep it in mind when we talk (which, if he's willing, will be soon).

If anybody else has anymore to add, I would of course welcome the help.

Back a few posts I said that talking is the best thing to do in any relationship about anything and everything... with the caveat that you want to be open to learn instead of controlling. My tip is this then;

When you talk to your hubby, - instead of talking about how nude magazines are OK and videos are off limits, etc. etc. or re-expressing how hurt and upset and disturbed porn makes you, be open to listen and learn. "I'm upset, you should x,y,z," closes your partner off EVEN if they really do care. Sometimes the skill of active and engaged listening creates more understanding and more commonality than each person defending their position in an argument. If my partner wanted to talk about something upsetting them I'd respond better to, "I don't want to make you feel bad, I care about you -- so I want to learn what your feelings are on this topic and i want to understand where you're coming from."

It's better to question his meaning in an answer (if you don't understand) than to ASSUME what he's feeling or thinking about the experience. Ask questions instead. Aim to learn. Sometimes it's difficult to listen if we feel defensiveness or strong emotions coming out of our partner --- but try not to take words personally (what they feel might not be rational in the moment!) rationalizing or discussing or hashing things out logically sometimes doesn't work as well as not taking things personally and simply listening. Logical conclusions and action plans can happen later.

This is more constructive way to get through problems than trying to "solve" an issue or change someone's feelings or opinions. This approach will let you both understand each other more and communicate about hurdles or areas of hurt.

(this goes for him listening to YOUR side of things... instead of trying to make things better or fixing things, him listening is more important, -without taking what you say personally) You can talk about how you feel too.

You might learn something about what scares you. Men don't look at porn because their partner isn't good enough and it doesn't have anything to do with how willing you are to have sex. Guy's need alone time too! Even if you're "willing" all the time... your responsibility isn't to be the be-all-end-all of your hubby's interior sexual self... your upbringing might have taught you that sex is bad or that masturbation is bad/sinful, so maybe through communication you can widen your perspectives to include his, and his can widen to include an understanding of yours.

My boyfriend and I are in our mid-twenties and have been together for almost five years. During the second year in our relationship, I walked in on him masturbating to video pornography. Up until that time, I had genuinely thought that explicit video pornography was reserved for sexual deviants and not something that the average person uses. Hence, when it happened I didn't know how to respond and put the whole thing out of my mind.

Since then, I genuinely hadn't given the issue any thought until a couple of months ago when I saw my boyfriend's computer on the bed next to a box of tissues. When I flipped up the screen there was a POV pornographic video of a woman pretending to give him a blow job. At which point he walked over and closed the computer. I tried to talk about it then but he didn't want to. A couple weeks later when I used the computer another pornographic website was in the url bar. At that point, I decided to snoop (wrong, I know) and have since found a stash of pornography on his computer and external hard drive. He also seems to regularly visit websites.

I have always found pornography offensive and now that my boyfriend is regularly using it, I feel hurt and disgusted by it. From the dates on his files, he has been consistently downloading pornography throughout our relationship. What's more is that I have often felt sexually neglected by him, having to practically beg for that kind of attention and frequently getting turned down. Until now, I have never been angry with him because I loved him and I didn't want my concerns to cause him to feel inadequate, less masculine, etc., I would be upset about the porn anyway, but now that I know he has always regularly used it, I’m starting to wonder if this isn’t reducing his interested in me and that is making me somewhat angry about our sex life.

At any rate, I explained my feelings to him, making sure not to attack or pressure, and he agreed, without me asking, to no longer use video porn. To support him, I gave him a Playboy (I don't mind pictures, only the videos because the videos are so explicit). However, I was on his computer last week and saw that he had been searching for more porn. He claims not to have but everything is dated. I have been to a multitude of discussion boards and advice websites, and consulted some friends, but cannot seem to decide how to feel or approach the issue. Much of what I have read says that I need to just accept his use of porn, however, I think that this sad. Women should not be told they have to accept men who feel like their girlfriend's/wife's feelings matter less than their 'masturbation enhancers.' Perhaps I am living in the wrong time period (either too early or too late, who’s to say which was or will be better) to expect such respect but I think it is entirely fair.

I want this relationship to work (we are actually discussing marriage) but I don’t want to accept the video pornography. Your perspective?


Porn can cause a lot of issues in a relationship, however, you can spin it and actually make it into something that can cause a lot of greatness in a relationship. Perhaps your boyfriend is feeling bored with his sex life, no offense to you, it happens to people regardless of gender and it doesn't necessarily mean he no longer is interested in you sexually. Try getting into it yourself, personally I love to watch porn (and I'm a woman!), and through out my dating life my boyfriends have always been taken aback by it, but never turned down the idea of watching it with me, and when you figure out the types of porn he likes, you can portray some of those fantasies and it can actually make your sex life pretty down right amazing. Be a bit more open minded to it, try to get him to share his fantasies with you, and even if you're not into what he's into, don't make him feel bad about it. Ask him when things are hot and heavy to tell you the things he likes, some guys are very uncomfortable with the concept of masturbation and porn, my partner REFUSES to talk about masturbation, thinks its awkward and makes him entirely uncomfortable, though I am an open book with it and have no problem sharing those things with him. Try not to take it personally either that he watches porn, every guy does, I wouldn't dare believe a single one if they told me they didn't. When I found my boyfriends porn stash I was ecstatic, actually sifted through it and found some stuff I liked as well. He shouldn't neglect you sexually. As women have sexual needs too, however its not all of his responsibility to keep the fire lit. Maybe buy some sexy lingerie and ask him to put on some of his favorite videos while you go down on him or ride him. Porn is all about fantasy. The videos -i- watch, I would never in a million years ever actually DO that stuff, but that doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun to talk about with my boyfriend or partially live out with him;) Five years is a decent amount of time, girlie, go the distance and try to get into what he's into. See if it helps, I bet you it will!

I am not so much writing this because I need to ask a question (although I will of course read and consider responses) but because I need a place to vent my frustration. A month or so ago I posted a question on here about my boyfriend's porn use. A few people responded, mostly telling me that the situation had no happy resolution for me, only him. I was also basically told I was a control freak and that I could not expect any change from him. My options were to accept his behavior or leave. He goes on his merry way doing what he wants just because he wants to, or I just give up on our relationship. No compromise, no change, nothing required on his part. Since then, I have tried to discuss the porn with my boyfriend but he just doesn't want to. Any time I ask a question, he lies. I am surprised by how coldly and easily he lies to me and have completely lost trust in him.

In general, I also am crushed by the attitudes out there regarding porn use and partners. Porn should be fine as long as you're with a person that doesn't have a problem with it, but I do have a problem with it. And, after all of the research that I have read, I'm convinced I have good reason to be upset. From articles I’ve consulted it seems that porn use dulls your chemical, physical reactions to your mate. It reduces the release of chemicals that trigger the feelings of ‘love’ that we associate with sex. These are ‘feel good’ chemicals, many of the same ones that are released when people use drugs, which is why porn can become an addiction. Other research articles which I have read found that porn users, male and female, have reduced feelings of commitment, look at other potential mates more, are more likely to stray, and are less satisfied with and more critical of their current partners, whether long term or not. That research does seem to have a few problems, one major one being whether cause and effect can be clearly defined, but its findings are still worrisome.

To be fair, I also looked at research that evaluated the benefits of
Porn use. Porn is good for an ailing sexual relationship where a little spice needs to be added in the form of watching others have sex to get aroused or where the porn might inspire new sex acts. Porn also tends to make regular viewers feel more confident about their own performance and leads to more positive and permissive attitudes regarding sex. But aside from these aspects/cases, it seems to be bad for relationships.

When my boyfriend found out that I was doing this research he had a fit. He didn’t even consider for a second that his lack of willingness to communicate or work with me left me few options to deal with this problem (and it is a huge problem for me). If he wants me to deal with this on my own, that’s fine, but he needs to let me do it the way I see as most helpful. I’m a researcher so this was naturally a place I turned. I also wanted to take opinion out of the mix as much as possible, and rely on fact. If the research had told me that porn was good for our relationship or at the very least, not bad, then that would have been a huge step toward changing my opinion into what he wants it to be.

Aside from conducting research and attempting discussion, I have also tried to make porn not so secretive. I read a lot about couples watching porn together and, while I don’t get enjoy porn, I thought maybe I would see the appeal if we watched it together. I am aroused by him and seeing him enjoying it, maybe that would do something for me or make it sexual for me? When I made the simple suggestion that we watch one together, not necessarily have sex with one on, but just watch, he was furious. He was basically saying that he didn’t know why I wanted to watch it, didn’t think I should watch it. I told him that I thought it might be fun to do together, and he just gave me a disgusted look. Conversation (if you can call it that) over.

I feel like I have tried just about everything to save our five year relationship but he just won’t compromise on the porn and is upset that I have any feelings about it whatsoever. The only way I can eliminate the hurt feelings and anger that I have over the porn use, is to convince myself I don’t love him. The porn is naked women doing dirty things for money and only money. He will never meet them, they don’t love him and they will never interact or even see him. But they seem to be more important to him than I am. Unfortunately that seems to be the case for a lot of men using porn when it becomes a problem in their relationship. They tell themselves and each other they shouldn’t give it up or compromise to using less graphic material (like I tried). It seems they see no good reason to quit (it’s not like your girlfriend, wife is really that great anyway), and are even insulted by the notion. I can’t help but think, “why shouldn’t you give it up and expect to?” It’s bad for your relationship with another human being, a person with whom you are supposed to be closest in life, and you refuse?

I hate him for this and am seriously thinking about quitting our relationship. In fact, I have already been searching for other places to live. I would ask if I am wrong, and am tempted to, but I think my feelings have pushed me beyond doubt. I can’t be with a man who has so little respect for me and our relationship. And the only conclusion I can reach from all of this is not that the porn means so much (because how could it? It’s empty), but that I must mean so little to him.

There is no good advice anyone can give, but I understand your struggle :( you'll find happiness with or without him, but anyone would prefer to work things out and stay together

it's a tough situation, I think he's addicted and just like cocaine any kind of addictions is hard to let go, obviously so if your no longer happy break up, who knows it may be a rude awakening for him and he may quit porn and come back to you... but it's a tough one =( sorry to hear this

Addicted or not, I find his lack of being willing to talk, and his disrespectful behavior unacceptable and don't blame you one bit for hating him.

he is not addicted, porn use is normal.
what's not normal is him turning you down when you offered to join in.
that in itself shows your willingness to try and see thing from his perspective. And if he were smart he would have taken that opportunity to include you deeper into his life and your understanding of each other.
I have personally watched porn ever since I was sexually active. I have had healthy, constructive, and meaningful relationships while continuing to watch porn throughout them.
I have to admit that I have never dated someone as uncomfortable around the idea of there partner using porn as you. But your reaction is perfectly understandable. Your "compromise" with the dirty mags is really a testimony to your mis education on the subject of porn.
you are right to feel a slighted that he will not open up to you, and help you understand what it really is all about. After 5 years he should be comfortable sharing that with you (though do not expect any man to EVER stop doing it). "just accept is" is not an appropriate excuse, he should take the time to re-assure you of your importance to him. Porn is a physical release, with little to no contextual value to any situation happening in ones life. He is not "looking at other women" he's just "rubbing one off".
the real issue hear is not the porn usage. It is the fact that it has caused a rift in the relationship (through blatant failure of communication) and has sewn the seeds of mistrust. That is a game ender for any relationship. I am truly sorry for you situation, because once the trust is gone so too is the relationship. Good luck!

PS: please forgive the spelling errors, not one of my strong points

Is Pornography Adultery? - Ross Douthat - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/10/is-pornography-adultery/6989/2/)
An article. Food for thought really. I think it shows porn for what it really is but takes a realistic approach to its role in society. I personally agree with much of what it says. Porn is a form of infidelity but unfortunately, it's so pervasive and accepted that it's unavoidable.

Additionally, I find my bf's reaction to the suggestion of me watching porn interesting. It makes me wonder if it didn't cause him to feel the feelings that I have been struggling with. Is he worried or angered by the fact that I might think about another man sexually? Is he upset by the idea of me getting off to watching another man? About me seeing another man and having vivid sexual interaction with that man to the point of orgasm?

It also caused me to wonder if his reaction wasn't confirmation of my fears. That his porn use is more than just a physical release but something he feels is very close to an actual sexual encounter. That he is thinking about these women and the things he sees in porn when he's with me. I feel like you can't watch porn four times a week to a couple times a day and not have those thoughts, images in your mind when you're actually having sex. His reaction was so strong and extreme that I can't help but feel all of these things are true. He expects me to share him sexually and just be accepting that he won't change, but he is furious when he thinks about accepting the same behaviors in me.

Maybe you have come to one of those obstacles for happiness in your relationship. Give much thought to words and actions to resolve this as conflict resolution requires patience and persistent. And the wisdom to know when to back off and when to push.

I don't like his reaction, but to deal with it requires understanding of why he feels as he does, so put aside the feelings and research and ask him directly why he reacted so strongly and build from there. He must also know you didn't like his reaction in a non threatening way.

"Your reaction just confused me and made me feel bad". Or something to that effect. The most dangerous thing that happens is assuming what goes on in your partners head. Or act on feelings with no facts, and he is the only one that can supply them.

I have tried to be understanding, nonthreatening and unassuming. And this approach might work if he actually were willing to talk but he's not, at least regarding this topic. Honestly, anytime I have ever brought it up, he has only been angry with me.

My perspective...

You need to get over it. There is nothing wrong with a guy watching porn, regardless of what you may think, it is normal to have those urges. I do agree with you in that replacing you with it is very wrong, and that part should be worked out. However, he is not going to stop, by pushing him away from it you will only make him lie to you, he has done it once already, and he will continue to do so for as long as you push him. His privacy is his own, you have let him know how you feel about it, and expect an unrealistic outcome out of this situation. You have made more damage by snooping around, and yet continue to look around. Learn to respect him, before you expect him to respect how you are feeling. If for any reason you are not able to overcome this obstacle, you can always find someone else, someone who doesn't watch porn. After all, you know your boyfriend fairly well if you are discussing marriage, and him watching porn makes him unsuitable for you? He has been doing it all along, it doesn't change anything because we normally start watching it before we met you and will continue to do so regardless of whether you decide to stay or leave. Focus on more important areas of your relationship, maybe integrate it into your sex life so that both of you are completely turned on when the magic happens. Why should we have to pay for a female's closed-minded attitude towards porn?

Remember that when you try to talk to him, actually TALK to him, to a lot of females when emotions are running around, what is talking to them is actually reprimanding to the guy, and THAT is a situation that no one likes to be in.

Kudos to you for doing a little research and trying to understand everything you can to help you cope. You even offered to "join in"... Why did he react so weirdly? Well for one thing, he might not be able to accomplish the mental 180 required to go from, "She hates porn and hates you watching and thinks it's disgusting" to "she wants to watch it with me and enjoy it." I can see why he might not be able to make that leap!. so you got the deflection and aversion and "case-closed!" reaction. Isn't it true? You hate porn, you've already decided that it's evil and awful and will lead him to stray in his mind, so you becoming part of his porn world seems dicey... he doesn't want you to think of him as disgusting and wrong and he doesn't want you to be upset. His way of solving that is to shut you down.

That said, everything you said about how angry and frustrated you are makes sense given his secretiveness and refusal to "share" and communicate. When someone clams up and shuts down or avoids it triggers our feelings of being unloved and disrespected. (Especially if lies pop up)

Here's some thoughts for you to consider, (before you decide on your relationship) in no particular order:

* You want to be respected and have him be honest. Are you respecting him and being honest? Do you trust him with your real feelings? What if instead of researching and looking at data and trying to change him or research reasons he should stop looking at porn, or why you should change your mind you said directly to him, "I don't feel like I'm important to you. I don't trust that I'm good enough for you. I feel like you don't trust me when it comes to sex" and then LISTEN to and discuss the answers without mentioning the P word!. (betcha anything he has the Same thought about you sometimes) - would you be willing to listen (honest/respectful) if he did? I dare you to say those statements or ask these q. "Do you feel like you're not important to me? Do you feel like you're not good enough? Do you feel like I don't trust you?" Take the porn out of the conversation TOTALLY and let your feelings out, listen (openly!) for the answers.



* You can't change him and if your intention is just about how you're going to convince him that it's wrong or that he'll give it up you're going to lose an opportunity to explore the rest of your relationship and find out how to communicate about this (and other) issues.


*- a breech of trust and communication, defensiveness and withdrawal about any subject in a relationship (This could be about porn, money, philosophies, feelings ) doesn't necessarily mean it's a "Game ender" -- it only means that both people are operating out of fear. You're fearful about the porn, he's fearful about your reaction to porn. He might love you a lot... but you're not feeling it through this topic. When he looks at porn you feel unloved and your feelings misunderstood and when you bring it up (or try to research it on your own) HE feels unloved and misunderstood. When someone LIES they're protecting themselves (but it doesn't help it feel less "personal" I know).

* ---- Is it possible that HE has some negative feelings about porn too and his defensiveness and unwillingness to talk about it (and especially for you to ALSO watch it) reflects on guilt and anger he's hiding from view? Sexuality is a loaded topic... he might seem to be uninhibited what with the loads of porn on his hard drive... but he might still be holding on to judgements about his own sexuality, porn or masturbation that you can't see. One possibility in him not wanting to discuss it is that he feels ashamed about some component of this activity.

* Really look at whether it's true that "porn" is more important to him than YOU ARE.
What if it wasn't true? Did you ASK him? If he told you you were more important would you believe him? Where's your self-esteem at? Also... what makes you think you're so horrible that he would even pick a picture over you in the first place?

( on the flip side... what if "porn" was sometimes more important to YOU than him? After all, you clearly have an issue with it... but porn can't be all that your boyfriend is made of... or the entire sum of his being. What else is there to him? This issue is big enough that you're thinking of leaving.

* It would be nice if he could reassure you about how much you mean to him and that porn isn't important -- but what reassurance have you given him of the same?
(you're thinking of moving out)

Can you really convince yourself "I don't love him" -- will that really work? Probably not. You can't force your brain to stop loving someone.. it doesn't work. If you leave him you just have do decide that you love him but that he/your idiologies differ.

At this next juncture of the relationship (since you're at a crossroads) and need to earn each other's trust, - you BOTH have to take responsibility for your feelings instead of blaming the other person.


Good luck to you!

Javi,

In another post I mentioned my attempt to introduce porn into our relationship. The attempt was a total failure because he wouldn't even think twice about it. His reaction mostly seemed to be that he didn't want me to watch it.

Also, you say 'regardless of what I may think' but this whole situation can only play out regardless of what I think. The only solutions which keep me in this relationship involve me developing an ability to accept porn 'regardless of what I may think.'

I know my reluctance to accept his porn use makes me a raving madwoman to the average regular porn user, but when I approached my conversations with him I did so with two ideas in mind: why is he using it when I'm not around and is there something he's turning to porn for that I could do for him. As I have said, I was neither accusing or overly emotional. I was mostly curious. But, he shut the conversation down quickly with a lie. He honestly just wants this to go away without any effort, sacrifice or compromise on his part. Unfortunately, it seems the majority of society supports the idea that I'm not allowed an opinion or voice regarding the porn use thus he doesn't feel badly about acting this way.

You mean you assume he doesn't feel bad about his reaction. I doubt that society's attitudes and opinions have anything to do with his thoughts, feelings,or attitudes.

That his porn habits are his exclusive privacy right would be my assumption, and he sees you as an intruder.

Well to be completely honest, who are you to say what he can and cannot do. You either like him for who he is, or you go elsewhere, don't attempt to change him or something that he likes, no one likes to have someone bicker at them about something they have no say in.

You tried to integrate it into your sex life, it didn't work, maybe try it again, if not then just ignore the porn watching, START respecting his privacy, and spice things up in bed. Just because a guy watches porn does not mean he is looking for something else, it just makes it easier to relieve oneself.

You going through his stuff is not really the best way to show that you are OK with it, more like it bothers you especially if you have confronted him about it, why would he want to talk to you about it?

Trying to open up a dialogue about something isn't the same as bickering. I have attempted to have a couple of conversations and he has just shut down when I tried. After which, I quit trying because he's never going to want to talk about it.

I have respected his privacy. The whole thing only started because he just left the porn playing on his computer on our bed. After that I began to snoop, mostly curious as to how often he was watching, was it normal or kinky stuff, that kind of curiousity. Not to mention, I don't think there's a single person in a relationship who hasn't done some kind of snooping through what is supposed to be their partner's personal stuff. I've seen him check my phone, email, and fb though I have never given him a reason to think I've cheated or ever wanted to. I think anyone that claims they never snoop must be lying because some curiousity about what your partner hides from you is normal.

And my comments about his attitudes being generated by what is commonly accepted are definitely applicable. He has not said once that he's upset because I was snooping (bc he's not exactly innocent on that front either). He was angry with me because I was unhappy about the porn use and he just didn't want to be annoyed by me having a problem with it. He provided such support for his porn use as "it's not a big deal, every guy does it" and "i don't know why you have a problem with it." Both statements reflecting the influence of ideas that are pervasive in society. The majority of people seem to condone or at least accept porn use and it's so prevalent that most are either using or accepting use of it. If he were to watch two live people have sex in a room, it would essentially be the same thing. He would be having the same involvement and getting the same sexual satisfaction from watching in a room as he does when he sees it on the computer. But, society draws a line between watching it live on the computer vs live in a room. Thus, although the experience he gets would be essentially the same, most people would say one is wrong and the other accepted. It's stupid to think that his reasons for thinking porn is okay are directly related to the prevailing attitudes in society.

Just like its acceptable to live together and not be married. It's a changed attitude from what it was. We make choices based on what our personal preferences are. He has the same rights to his like/dislikes as you do.

I will say this about your situation, I think his attitude and reactions are far more troubling than the porn. I would expect a more open communications after 5 years. That's not to say this won't be resolved later, as some situations are more difficult than others. Some require more time, thought, and talking about.

Most guys put the movies away after the kids start coming and get older, some go back to them, some don't. But a young guy living with his girl probably has nothing else to do but entertain himself when you aren't around. I don't know why, but some things are best enjoyed in private.

Just curious if you guys watch HBO together? Especially with the soft porn of some that are present in there programming.

We don't watch HBO (we got rid of cable to save money) but we have watched many shows together that have softcore content. Are you suggesting that I mention watching that?

Reflecting on his reaction to my suggestion to watch porn, I think partly he didn't want me to be turned on by it (I do think it may have made him feel insecure), but also I think he simply didn't like the fact that I might want to watch it. He always describes me as 'cute' and I think he likes that I tend to be rather conservative, maybe even innocent about many things. I think me coming to him with that suggestion really upset his image of me (as my finding out the extent of his porn use upset me). So, even if it's softcore, I don't think he'll be open to it.

Thanks for the added insight. I was was not suggesting the soft porn as course of action, but was just wondering if you did watch it together. It could well be that he is setting a double standard for you to keep you pure in his head, but that's not really fair as no one can live under such expectations from another.

If this is the case then its not about porn but living up to his expectations for you. To be blunt he stunts your own ability to explore your curiosity. Which is natural as you seem to be a naturally curios person, and he is having a terrible time balancing his image of you, and his own need/want to have porn as his outlet. The basis for his fear is that you will like porn and watch without him, and is insecure about being compared to the guys you see, just as most females get insecure when they think THEY are being compared to the females on porn.

What makes taking such things personally is that woman always complain about the females and NEVER say anything about the men, even though they are both interacting at the same time. Its generally the same for men who get excited about the women, and ignore the guys altogether.

Does that make sense? Bottom line, I bet its more about him than you and he is insecure about meeting your expectations of how he should be as studly, as the guys you will see performing. So he sets limits for you that he himself cannot/does not set for himself.

That's controlling behavior with fear as the basis. He thinks he is protecting you, but he is merely protecting himself.

Make sense?

That entirely makes sense and is exactly what I thought was happening -- minus the controlling part. I don't think he's intending to be controlling. I think he just didn't react well. Honestly though, I have watched a couple of his pornos and don't get it. It doesn't turn me on the way it must turn him on. I think the men and women in it are actually a turn off. The men, even though they may have a large penis, don't do anything for me sexually and he would never have to worry about me thinking about them in that way.

What I was saying about his insecurities regarding my potential porn use (though, for the reasons stated above, this won't become an actuality) is that it's revealing about what could be going on in his mind. If he is comparing me to the women in the films, if he is extremely attracted to them, and if he is thinking about the porn when we're together (all very plausible and natural things to come from the situation) then it only makes sense that he would worry I might do it too. That would be why he might worry I'd compare his performance and appearance and so forth... He wants to be able to think sexually about and masturbate to other people and expects me not to be upset about it though it seems he should understand why I'm upset.

Bottom line, I think the porn has a greater impact on his sexuality than he is willing to admit and was confronted with it when he started worrying about porn use affecting me the same way.

Can I ask, has lack of communication been an issue through out different aspects of the relationship or just the porn issue?

Can I ask, has lack of communication been an issue through out different aspects of the relationship or just the porn issue?

Hi IndiePixie, I appreciate your attempts to help me, but I've found a way to come to peace with this issue and for now at least don't really need any further advice. Thank you for your help.

May I ask BP how you came to peace with this issue for the benefit of other readers?

The shorter answer…
My feelings and attitudes regarding porn didn't change but my perspective about the entire situation did. There were basically three things that allowed me to move past this 'problem.'

1. I love him and want him to be happy (even if it's at the expense of some of my happiness)
2. Practically speaking, this is something most men do and feel unapologetic about. My chances of finding a man that didn't do this were slim to none.
3. I shut it out of my mind. I quit trying to talk about it and don't touch his computer (he's terrible at hiding it and seeing something would only hurt my feelings).

The longer answer…
I sincerely thought about leaving for a while (feeling that staying was acquiescing). I was furious that he was telling me that I wasn't supposed/allowed to be upset about it. I have always been completely sexually open to him and am always asking if there's something I can do for him. It drove me crazy to feel like I wasn't enough and that my willingness to give went unappreciated. I have also made many changes/sacrifices to make our relationship work and couldn't believe that I wasn't allowed to ask him to return the favor.

In the end, however, I looked at our relationship and realized I wanted to stay. After making that decision what remained was accepting that he wouldn't change (it was hurtful, but I needed to see that my feelings were not an issue for him or at least that he didn't understand them) and figuring out a way to keep the porn from ruining the relationship for me. I tried “if you can't beat 'em, join 'em” but that didn't work. I do not enjoy porn. Maybe that will change, but for now this will be an activity that's exclusively his. So, I decided to simply know that he does it, but keep it from my mind.

My perspective remains however that so many women are upset (on this site and others) by their partner's porn use that I don't believe it is just some crazy unnatural reaction. Yet, the answers that many of these women get (almost regardless of circumstances) convey the message that “there's nothing wrong with porn use. You're wrong to be upset about it.” I think this is a short path to some resolution, but it doesn't address every issue. Many, albeit not all, of the answers I received carried the same sentiment and while that helped me see the situation the way he sees it, it didn't change my feelings. What ended up allowing me to stay was taking a practical perspective and essentially ignoring it. While I don't think this is the ideal way to address a problem, it is working for me.

This whole issue touches on the question of “where do one person's rights end and another's begin?” The line between the two is even more blurry in a relationship where (almost?) everything is supposed to be shared and the two people in it open with each other. It's a question I can't answer so I put my negative feelings aside, focused on the positive, and tried to be more pragmatic.

Now that's a great and logical attitude in dealing with things beyond your control. Life is never as simple as we see it especially when we share that life with a partner. I have no doubt that life changing events and age will mellow his attitude as well.

It's a journey of learning, growing, and making adjustments. I hope he handles his adjustments with the same grace as you have handled yours. I am impressed.

I think it's a cop out. Why should you be unhappy and stay without him compromising on something?
Porn is OK, although I don't see what the big deal about it is. You see one, it's all the same. Not something I'd want to watch rather than having sex. When your man is so into it that he neglects you, that is a problem, he has a problem and in a relationship he needs to know you have a problem with it.
The ideal thing would be he says, I know I'm so into this that I'm neglecting you and I'm sorry, lets work together and try and come to some happy medium.
But to say, well that is the way it is and I'll just deal with it because I love him is in my opinion, settling.
This issues will come up again because it has not been dealt with.

I am in the same boat and sometimes don't know whether to sink or swim... only I watch porn with my boyfriend and I enjoy it but my problem is much like your own.. He does not want sex with me much anymore but I've caught him numerous times masterbating to porn after he showed no interest of doing anything sexually with me.. at same time mine has explored the internet and actually had a threesome with a random female... yet he says he loves me and swears he has not lost interest.. may want to exam him more.. good luck on this one