Hi everyone. Awhile back I posted about my arrest for my theft under 5000 offense. I have learned a lot a long the way, and one of the more interesting things is that in Canada, in a lot of provinces (but not all) it is the CROWN ATTORNEY that approves a charge, not the arresting police officer (which is why on the appearance notice the officer gives you it says "...who has not yet been charged with a crime") They lay an "information" (a report basically) and the crown decides what to do with it. However, in Canada a person who has not been charged with an offense can still be fingerprinted/phtographed.

In my particular circumstance, I have been offered a pre-charge diversion program, meaning that once the program is complete, I won't be charged (as opposed to being charged, but having the charges stayed or withdrawn). According to the crown attorney and my lawyers, the crown will notify the CPIC to destroy the fingerprints after the program is complete. I still have to wait a year to have my file destroyed locally, but the sergeant in charge of identification in my city has assured me that the US border does not have access to their local records.

It is a known fact, however, that the CPIC and RCMP is very very behind on all of the administrative "stuff". It can take 5 months to have your fingerprints checked to make sure there is no information about you in their system for a criminal record search. I realize that if I tried to cross the border, my FPS could still be accessible, but there should be no charge associated with it. My question is, if the border guards see that I have been fingerprinted, but there is no charge associated with it, can they turn me back on the grounds that I have been fingerprinted alone? I have spoken to my lawyers about this matter and they told me that they have had clients with pretty serious sexual charges that were withdrawn who were able to cross after being questioned, and I'm not even being charged so I should have no problem, but I would rather wait a year than be turned around and need to apply for a waiver for life.

It's on a case by case basis - I've seen people turned around, I've seen people allowed to cross.

I don't understand the statement that the US does not have acess to Canadian records - that is not my experience.

You have asked this before and become personally insulting when I answered - https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/criminal-law/fingerprinted-but-not-charged-what-will-border-guards-see-670968.html.

You already have answers. You may not like them, but you've got them.

The last thread was marked CLOSED because it was an argument, not advice, not helpful to anyone. I would suggest to a Mod that this thread be in that same category - you don't want advice. You want to argue about what your neighbor's dog told your dog and then what the dog told you.

All third-hand information. Retain an Attorney OR try to cross.

Of course you are "charged" they can not offer you a diversion program unless you are charged with a crime,

Yes, Canada and the US esp since the rise of Homeland Security have easy access to each other files and I believe that there are some joint files.

I do know from the US side, that the actual records are never destroyed just sealed, the trascripts and more have to be there in case there would be future laws suits and the such.

Also from other posters from Canada, while the Crown and your attorney may promise it is a certain way, we get many many posters here that claim it is not working that way in real life

Hi JudyKayTee and Fr Chuck,

I understand that both of you are located in the US. For your own information, I suggest you look up "salvation army pre charge diversion". It is only available in Canada, and only in some provinces (the provinces where the Crown lays the charges). The fingerprints are SUPPOSED to be removed from the CPIC if the charges are not approved, but like you said Fr Chuck, sometimes this is not that case.

After a year I am able to have my file destroyed, as told to me by the sergeant of identification in my city and the diversion counsellor. The police service will invite me and/or my lawyer to witness the file being destroyed- I can't seem to find it at the moment, but I had bookmarked a website/pdf of the file destruction guidelines for the city that I am in.

I also spoke to the US border patrol- they told me that an arrest/fingerprints with no charges (and obviously no conviction) is nothing to be concerned about, although I will still wait for the file destruction.

Terms and play on words, pre charge diversion is a form of diversion program, to accept the program, you are accepting guility, ( sorry but that is the bite in this) if you fail or don't complete the program you will be treated as guilty. The devil is in the fine print,

If and after the program is completed, nothing show up as conviction. A division program once completed will not effect border entry

Hi JudyKayTee and Fr Chuck,

I understand that both of you are located in the US. For your own information, I suggest you look up "salvation army pre charge diversion". It is only available in Canada, and only in some provinces (the provinces where the Crown lays the charges). The fingerprints are SUPPOSED to be removed from the CPIC if the charges are not approved, but like you said Fr Chuck, sometimes this is not that case.

After a year I am able to have my file destroyed, as told to me by the sergeant of identification in my city and the diversion counsellor. The police service will invite me and/or my lawyer to witness the file being destroyed- I can't seem to find it at the moment, but I had bookmarked a website/pdf of the file destruction guidelines for the city that I am in.

I also spoke to the US border patrol- they told me that an arrest/fingerprints with no charges (and obviously no conviction) is nothing to be concerned about, although I will still wait for the file destruction.

US Border Patrol doesn't physically work the border. How do I know? I'm ex-US Customs/Immigration/Homeland Security.

Come back in a year after your file has been "destroyed" and you've tried to cross the border.

So you are going to witness someone burning all the computers in Canada or just your paper fingerprint record?