Entire story merged

I mainly post to offer my story to help anyone else that ends up in the situation I'm in, there's really little I can do at present, but I suppose advice never hurts.

We dated for 2 years, we're both 21 in college. It wasn't a perfect relationship, but we mainly had the same fight over and over. She would do things that made me feel like I wasn't important to her, garden variety example: This dude she was seeing briefly years before we met would try to talk her into having sex with him, she'd say no, he'd flip out and call her names, and this would happen periodically, not just once, then he'd be visiting his friends on campus, and I'd ask her to stay in and hang out with me that night, and she'd rather go out and visit him, because she'd feel bad if he was looking forward to seeing her.

She has a need to please complex, which I guess is an earmark of immaturity, so she'd end up doing things like this that would hurt me. I'd explain to her that it was hurting me, nicely, and she never seemed to get the message. Then I'd get angry and probobly condescending and I probobly said some abusive things, not name calling, mostly in the neighborhood of how long before she learns that she's being exploited like this.

Other major problems with the relationship were that she'd lied to me before. About hooking up with a dude before we were dating, her defense was always "what's the big deal, it happened before we were dating?" and my problem wasn't with what she did, it was that she lied to me. Again, she felt like it was none of my business. Yes, when she lied, it was directly to the question did you do X with Y, not lying by omission.

More problems like this, but I'm sure you all get the picture, so we sort of limped along for a while, but it didn't feel like we did, because at the end of the day she made me happy and I made her happy. Maturity and insecurities ate us alive.

Week before thanksgiving she drops the old I need some space to figure things out, I pushed my panic button and played the needy boyfriend, which of course drove her further away. She ends it (over text message, I might add), and over the next 2 weeks I was trying to figure out why. She'd never give me the same answer twice. Amongst them were I wasn't dependable, she never felt good enough for me, and she felt controlled. I sense these are all biproducts of her personal insecurities.

I recently began the NC thing mostly for myself, but partially because I wanted to see how serious she was about this, in the meantime I discovered she'd recently started seeing another guy, which she denied adamantly when I asked before I actually knew. I do NC for a week and she comes at me nagging about picking up my stuff for the 3rd time, and for the 3rd time I told her to throw it away and forget about me, I won't be mad, she refuses to do this, and nags me why I won't talk about what's bothering me. I explain to her that I found out about the other guy, ETC.

This is what she tells me, and I suppose this is subject to interpretation, but I haven't believed anything she's told me from the start of this, and I actually believe her when she says things like this. She said she's dissapointed at how weak she is and didn't have the courage to come clean with a lot of things and she hates how dishonest she is with me and things like that. I explained to her that I still want her back, but she has to get all that sorted out, dishonesty and weakness have no place in a relationship, and if you never sort that out, it's been nice knowing you. She also asked what I was doing with my life, and with other girls, I sort of hammed it up a bit, but I didn't tell her anything that wasn't true. I also left out the part where my life is miserably limping along without her.

Her birthday is coming up, I screwed the pooch on last year's birthday, should I do anything this year? I was thinking a card with just a happy birthday to let her know I'm still thinking about her, but I don't want to come off as desperate and needy. Again. Advice or questions welcome.

Zero,

It is time to just move on. Nothing for her birthday, no contact.

This relationship was doomed at the start.

There is a field of red flags in this post that just screams abusive relationship. Not necessarily physical, but mental and emotional.

Time to learn from what you did wrong here, and to learn what you do and do not want out of a girlfriend and move on to a happier healthier relationship.

What screams abusive? I sort of feel like I was too hard on her a lot, and when I told her that, she told me that I'm not normally like that, and I wouldn't be like that if I wasn't dating a "fixer upper". I don't know how much of that she believes, but what I'm asking is who's doing the abusing? I feel like I was doing my share of it, but I also feel like I was backed into that corner. Is that a blame tactic?

the same fight over and over.

Abusive, verbally or emotionally. Couples who are happy do not have the same fight over and over. They solve the crisis and then move on.



She would do things that made me feel like i wasn't important to her, garden variety example: This dude she was seeing briefly years before we met would try to talk her into having sex with him, she'd say no, he'd flip out and call her names, and this would happen periodically, not just once, then he'd be visiting his friends on campus, and i'd ask her to stay in and hang out with me that night, and she'd rather go out and visit him, because she'd feel bad if he was looking forward to seeing her.


She did not care for your feelings or she still really had feelings for him. Come on, if a gal was committed, would she really do this? Honestly now, don't make excuses for her.


she'd end up doing things like this that would hurt me. I'd explain to her that it was hurting me, nicely, and she never seemed to get the message. Then i'd get angry and probobly condescending and i probobly said some abusive things, not name calling, mostly in the neighborhood of how long before she learns that she's being exploited like this.

She never got the message, probably because she did not want to. This can be considered emotional abuse. If she cared, she would have gotten the message. Here you yourself admitted some sort of emotional or verbal abuse.


Other major problems with the relationship were that she'd lied to me before. About hooking up with a dude before we were dating, her defense was always "what's the big deal, it happened before we were dating?" and my problem wasn't with what she did, it was that she lied to me. Again, she felt like it was none of my business. Yes, when she lied, it was directly to the question did you do X with Y, not lying by omission.

Do you see here how she lied? Lying is not part of a good relationship. I do see her point, it happened before you two were together, so why rehash what happened in the past, nothing you can do to change it, so why not just drop in and go forward.


More problems like this, but i'm sure you all get the picture, so we sorta limped along for a while, but it didn't feel like we did, because at the end of the day she made me happy and i made her happy. Maturity and insecurities ate us alive.

First, you did not "limp" you freaking needed crutches!! Now the rest of this paragraph is SO contradictory!!

You limped, but it did not feel like it... At the end of the day you made each other happy... Maturity and insecurities at you alive.

Now how can you be happy at the end of the day while being eaten alive?


i pushed my panic button and played the needy boyfriend, which of course drove her further away.

Yep, you said it...


Amongst them were i wasn't dependable, she never felt good enough for me, and she felt controlled. I sense these are all biproducts of her personal insecurities.

Her personal insecurities or ones that you imposed on her by confronting her, being needy, continuiously believing she is immature and insecure?


she'd recently started seeing another guy, which she denied adamantly when i asked before i actually knew.

What business is it of yours now anyway? You are broken up right? It is her life right? This is what I call NONEYA, it is NONEYA business what she does while you are broken up.


I do NC for a week and she comes at me nagging about picking up my stuff for the 3rd time, and for the 3rd time i told her to throw it away and forget about me, i won't be mad, she refuses to do this, and nags me why i wont talk about what's bothering me. I explain to her that i found out about the other guy, ETC.

This is not NC. NC is NO CONTACT. No contact means, just that, no e-mails, no texts, no IMs, zip, zero, nada. NOTHING, she does not exist so you cannot contact her, and you ignore all contacts from her.


I explained to her that i still want her back,

Why? Really, think about it. WHY?

Okay, now that I feel like Chuff, here. I think you get my point.

We had the same fight, yes, but we also were trying different solutions. We also fought about different things. I was upset about how she made me feel unimportant to her, and she was mad at how I handle things when I'm upset.

I don't disagree that there was emotional abuse, but the question I'm asking is does it look as though that's in my nature from the start? I hate hurting her feelings, I hate the idea of running her life, and I hate the idea of her thinking I make all her decisions for her. I don't like the idea of dating somebody that only dates me because she thinks she can't find anybody better. I'm not jealous, I let her hang out with guys without me all the time. In fact, 90% of the time she's out, its with other dudes.

I've been researching emotional abuse, and I do fit some of the standards, so I'm very concerned. I've spoken with her on the subject, and she feels like she enables that in me. I've pointed out many times in the relationship that she lets people walk on her, and how I'd like her to stand up for herself, and the counselor I saw about this seemed to feel like I was right for doing so, but I'm also wondering if that itself is controlling behavior. If I created insecurities that weren't there? She wasn't happy with the way a lot of people were treating her, and she'd often come back crying to me about them. So I felt like I was doing something in her best interest. Again, I'm confused.

She didn't really have feelings for that guy that was visiting her, he was in the army and she would have felt bad if he left on a bad note and ended up getting killed in action or something of that sort.

As far as her lying being none of my business, the dude she hooked up with was threatening her and I and cutting himself, maybe I'm selfish, but when my personal wellbeing is at stake, I feel like I need to know what's happening. Her original story was just that he liked her and was getting crazy. The fact that they hooked up made it make sense, again I wasn't interested in rehashing what she'd done with him, I was just upset that she lied to me.

RUN, do not walk, from this loser as fast as your legs can carry you! She's everything you've said she is and worse. Why the heck would you even want her back? She'll continue to lie to and manipulate you. Hell, she thinks more of an ex from years ago who gets abusive if she refuses to have sex with him than she does of you! She's no prize worth waiting for. Erase her phone #, e-mail address, screen name, everything. If whatever stuff of yours she has really is worth no more to you than telling her to throw it away, then so be it ; let her deal with it. You don't need to feed in to this kind of drama and nonsense ; it's not healthy.

What screams abusive?

Everything, dude! Perhaps you did contribute to it some. After all, abuse tends to beget abuse. When someone abuses us, we tend to abuse them in return ; the old "tit-for-tat" mentality. That's all the more reason for you to stay away from her, so you won't be tempted to behave abusively towards her and possibly set yourself up as the "bad guy." Keep in mind that women tend to get away with abusive behavior more than men, especially because it tends to not be so much physical but more verbal and emotional. Then they try to excuse themselves by blaming it on "hormones" or PMS, etc.

I've been researching emotional abuse, and i do fit some of the standards, so i'm very concerned. I've spoken with her on the subject, and she feels like she enables that in me. I've pointed out many times in the relationship that she lets people walk on her, and how i'd like her to stand up for herself, and the councellor i saw about this seemed to feel like i was right for doing so, but i'm also wondering if that itself is controlling behavior. If i created insecurities that weren't there? She wasn't happy with the way a lot of people were treating her, and she'd often come back crying to me about them. So i felt like i was doing something in her best interest. Again, i'm confused.

It's possible that you have some abusive tendencies independently of her. A good question to start with would be something like how did you behave in previous relationships? If you behaved in manners akin to what you've done in this relationship, then it's possible that you may have some of your own abuse issues to work on. If so, then you need to work on that and you should share your concerns with the counselor you're seeing so that (s)he can address this. Remember, you can't fix anyone else but you can fix yourself.

I don't really want her back in her current state. I'm also not putting my life on hold for her, I'm seeing other people and encouraging her to see other people. Unfortunately for me she's seeing a real loser, which is taking its toll on myself esteem, but if she's going to better herself seeing guys like this is the best thing that can happen to me. I'm not really prying into her life, people tell me what's going on, even after I've made it clear I don't want to know. Right now I feel like if she would see how much work she is, she could learn appreciate what I do for her. But I can't handle her garbage like I used to. I'm also told there's an almost certainty she'll be back at some point, which is sort of scaring me. I'm strong when I'm left alone for a while, but when she tries to pry into my life I break down.

i'm seeing other people and encouraging her to see other people. I'm not really prying into her life, people tell me whats going on, even after i've made it clear i don't want to know.

To me that is prying. Do you understand NO CONTACT?

If you don't want to know, tell those people that you don't want to hear it when they start.

We're in the introductory stages of no contact. Right now it starts with me not calling her, one step at a time. When she has something to say I'm still interested in hearing it, and I can't deny myself that yet. Key word yet.

Forever, I think you are handling this situation pretty well considering how badly most people would do. The fact that she has admitted to the ways she was hurting you and all of that... I have been in a similar situation, but I wouldn't have been able to be that honest.

The fact that she is with a loser, I would say, stems to how low she is feeling... maybe she is feeling like she doesn't deserve better right now, and he is her rebound... a loser one, but its still a rebound. I don't really have any good advice right now, I am personally emotionally overwhelmed right now, but I just wanted to give you props for being so mature in all this. I think you have the right mind set to be able to handle this with your own judgement...

Good Luck

It sort of helps me to think about what a relationship is to me. Personally, I feel in a relationship I have 2 jobs, to make her feel needed, and to make her feel loved. I needed her and I loved her. Maybe not in the right way, but that's not for me to decide.

We're in the introductory stages of no contact. Right now it starts with me not calling her, one step at a time. When she has something to say i'm still interested in hearing it, and i can't deny myself that yet. Key word yet.

Honestly I did not realize that there was an introductory stage of no contact. This is new to me.

No contact is no contact, you just don't slowly get to that point. You just stop contact.

How many people quit smoking their first try?

Not many, I know only a handful.

But No Contact is much easier, believe me I have done it and am currently going through it.

Albeit not with a girlfriend or boyfriend, but a VERY close friend of over a year. It was a VERY unhealthy and abusive relationship. I chose to get better, therefore No Contact.

There is a difference though. Smoking is a physical addiction.

If the relationship is an addiction there are more problems going on.

Hi foreverZero,

Sorry about what you are going through. I know it is tough, I really do. I usually expand on what others say but I read through the responses you had which have all been very good and I particularly liked J9's response which is #4 and in my opinion was spot on given all the facts.

I would suggest you re-read this particular response and really think hard about it. Sometimes, what we are told is not what we want to hear, yet it can help us to make sense of things.

So I won't expand here because I think J9 hit the nail on the head. I will keep an eye on your thread in case I feel I can add something more.

All the best and Happy New Year to you!

Oh Hang on a minute... I thought of something, the birthday card you mentioned you were going to send her. Forget it, full no contact is what is needed and for you to work on yourself and move on. She won't appreciate the card in the way you want her to.. Again it will make you look needy and actually she might feel a bit harassed in a way. I know you are not like that but see it from her point of view. I never sent anything to my ex over xmas, and I am glad because of What I have said here. You must let go! In time, it will make more sense.

What you have is one unhealthy relationship between two people that have no clue as to what they want or how to get it. You both enable each other in negative ways and maybe you both should leave each other alone. No contact is what you need and until you do it you both will continue to suffer and be miserable. Make all the excuses you want but this abusive relationship must stop.

I'm in 100% agreement, but the problem I run into, which I'm sure is the one everybody runs into, is what would the relationship look like without the abuse? Given what she's told me so far, we're both on the same page as far as the mutual enabling of the abuse.

Looking at myself, I can honestly say I've never been like this before, and the abusive things I've said and done have been in the wrong mindset. I've tried to keep her away from her friends sometimes, but that's the intent of her finding friends that don't make her cry every time they see her, not making her have friends that approve of me, as I find is the case in most abusive relationships.

I'm not making the mistake of basing my life on waiting for her to come around, but I also am inclined to trust my judgement, as this has more or less unfolded the way I figured it would. My judgement tells me that in time she'll realize why this went wrong, and understand that she's not the kind of person to hurt me, as I'm not the kind of person to hurt her.

As far as no contact goes, I've asked her to stay out of my life. She initiated the breakup, so I feel an obligation to listen to what she has to say to learn about myself. I also figure if she's going to disregard my wishes, it should be important to her. I doubt she'll have anything to say for a while anyway.

Tal did you read this?


We're in the introductory stages of no contact. Right now it starts with me not calling her, one step at a time. When she has something to say i'm still interested in hearing it, and i can't deny myself that yet. Key word yet.

Zero, I will maintain that there is not introductory stage for NC.

Please take a step back and re-read your post. This is a very unhealty relationship and you need to get healthy yourself first. Worry about you, not her.

This is the first time I've ever behaved this way, I've been in 4 6month plus relationships, and this is the first time I've ever had somebody leave me. This is a learning experience for me, and I still see the things she has to say as productive towards helping me get back on my feet. I still beat myself up over some of the things I've done to her and allowed her to do to me. She doesn't try to rope me back in, and we're not talking often.

Since I stopped initiating communication with her at the beginning of December, we've spoken twice, both time she initiated, both times have been using something else as the guise for her communication. She's afraid of me, and she shouldn't be. I finished being afraid of her about 3 weeks after we broke up.

What's going FZ? I'm sorry your going through this. I understand your confused and hurt and desiring explanations in this situation. But it's hard if not impossible to learn from your mistakes and correct them when you so emotionally wound up in them. You've got to institute NC now for YOU. Not for her. If I had a torch and every time you came near me I kept burning you would you keep coming back or leave and get your wounds healed? You'd leave. So why do you keep letting her burn you. She's not doing it physically, she's doing it emotionally and mentally. And you keep going back for more.

I really liked and appreciated what J9 did in post #4 so I thought I'd give it a try myself. Let's see if I can't offer you some suggestions or points of view on this NC thing.


This is the first time i've ever behaved this way, i've been in 4 6month plus relationships, and this is the first time i've ever had somebody leave me.

As you say next this is a learning experience for you. This is all new to you. We all get that but you can't wish your way or push your way into anybody's life. When both of you are emotionally wounded you must separate. If she can't leave you that's her problem. How can you ever heal her the burns you gave her if you can't take time to stop and heal your own wounds.


This is a learning experience for me, and i still see the things she has to say as productive towards helping me get back on my feet.

You couldn't be further from the truth. What she says has nothing to do with getting back on your feet. She might tell you things that she wants but that's so she can manipulate you when you hurt. If she really cared she would identify what bothers her and give you the space and time to go change it.


I still beat myself up over some of the things i've done to her and allowed her to do to me.

Your still beating yourself up. Your still burning yourself. Isn't it time for a break then for the healing to start? Instead of beating yourself up for anything why not admit your human, learn from the mistake and not do it again. Holding on to the emotional mistakes of the past leads to more emotional mistakes in the future. That is further complicated when your making these decisions in a highly emotional state like your currently in.


She doesn't try to rope me back in, and we're not talking often.

That's because she doesn't really care and she's seeing other people. Don't talk at all.


Since i stopped initiating communication with her at the begining of december, we've spoken twice, both time she initiated, both times have been using something else as the guise for her communication.

I'm confused? Who used who as a guise? And exactly how was that pulled off? What was the point of that? It sounds like game playing who ever it was.


She's afraid of me, and she shouldn't be. I finished being afraid of her about 3 weeks after we broke up.

Then why do you care if she's afraid of you? Why was there fear in a relationship to begin with?
Dude if you every plan on healing yourself start now by letting her go. Do some other things for awhile and let the emotions wear down. Then go back and figure out what happened and how not to do it in the future.

P.S. Chuff, don't know why the style struck you, Hmmmmmmm.

LOL

As far as no contact goes, I've asked her to stay out of my life. She initiated the breakup, so I feel an obligation to listen to what she has to say to learn about myself. I also figure if she's going to disregard my wishes, it should be important to her. I doubt she'll have anything to say for a while anyway
You have no obligations to anyone but you. She broke up with you and disregards your wishes to stay away from you. How sick is that, and no amount of logic will explain this abusive behavior. NO CONTACT AT ALL. Keyword... NO!!

Next question, towards the end of this month I'll be back at school with her, she's repeatedly tried to give me my things back, I've repeatedly told her to throw them away, I won't miss them. Her response is always " i don't want you to hate me because i threw your things out". I don't understand how she thinks after lying to me and doing all these twisted things that throwing my stuff out after I've asked her to is going to be what makes me hate her, but whatever. The question is how should I approach this when she comes to me about it? I want to leave the door open for reconciliation, but that's all. I'm not interested in playing games, but I also don't want to burn my bridges.

If you don't want to play games why are you playng hers? This whole relationship is a game and you leaving the door open keeps both of you playing. Good luck You deserve each other.

As much as I try to keep her out of my life, she still consumes my thoughts. I'm out meeting people and keeping my options open, but I still can't get her out of my head. She's expressed no interest in getting back together, she's seeing somebody else. I'm getting back into my hobbies and things like that, but it doesn't stop the thoughts and the pain. I just don't want to let go, and as much as I'd like to force myself, it doesn't seem to be working. Logically, everything everybody says makes perfect sense, but I can't force myself to not feel a certain way. No contact is good for cleansing the system, and that's why I'm looking for suggestions on how to handle her dealing with my possesions without breaking that.

My judgement is under question with this breakup. I can honestly say that I've never been wrong about my ex-girlfriend, but this whole thing has caused me to lose faith in my own judgement, so I figured I'd run a few things past you guys that I believe, despite how they sound.

To the questions. She cites me not being dependable as one of the big reasons she left me. I'd accused her of not being dependable several times, which she took to heart, in my opinion, because she felt like she was doing the best she could and I wasn't getting it. Her coping mechanism when faced with a problem is to bottle it up and hope it goes away. For all of those incidents, whenever I wanted to talk about it, to clear the air, and express how I was hurt and needed a little help with things like this, her response was always "what's the big deal, it happened to me".

She gave responses like that because she felt like I was attacking her, and I was looking to hold this over her head for my own personal gain. That's not true, but when your coping mechanism works like hers does, I'd see where she got that from. So I believe her when she said this.

She runs from all of her problems, that's a fact. When she broke up with me, she did it over a text message, and had looked for every excuse possible not to talk to me. She's also never approached me to explain herself, neither why she broke up with me or after she started seeing another guy, whom had been the one that helped her through the breakup.

Am I wrong to think she's just running from this problem too? She also pressed me to return my things to me afterwards, even after I told her to throw them out. I sincerely think we felt the same way for each other, and it took us hurting each other to discover that. Communication was the single biggest problem, whatever I was saying wasn't getting through, and whatever she was saying wasn't either. In explaining this to her, she doesn't believe me, and my judgement tells me because she doesn't want to.

She approached me the day after christmas to talk about my things again, I suspect she was really looking for an excuse to talk to me, but couldn't muster up to do it honestly. Here's where I really don't trust my judgement, and honestly it's because I hear the same thing from everybody, which leads me to believe they're right and I'm wrong. In this conversation, she told me she hated how when she looks at herself, she sees somebody that won't stand up for themselves, runs from their problems, and can't be honest about anything. She also tells me she thinks I'm not hurtful to somebody that's not a "fixer upper".

I believe this was honesty talking, and I believe this because I still believe her. Any evidence I have would be in the fact that on new year's one of my friends stole my phone and drunk dialed her, and ended up singing a song that was in the list of "our songs" She had one of her friends pretend to be the cops and call the phone back etc. I didn't say anything, and the next day she came clean about it and told me how sorry she was ETC.

LONG STORY SHORT - are these just things she's telling me so she can absolve her own guilt? Or do you suppose she sincerely believes what she's telling me? I understand this fits the bill for a woman's way of trying to convince me I'm better off without her to make me hurt less, but I still don't believe it. My judgement rarely serves me wrong, but I'm seriously confused now, and I'm the worst judge of anything.

Couple of other questions while my mind is on the subject

This other dude she's seeing reeks of a rebound. He's the complete opposite of me, and my judgement tells me she's using him to forget about me.

I also suspect her fear of commitment played a bigger part in this then she lets on. I think she saw the end of college approaching, and time to start building a future together, and didn't want that pressure, which tells me she'll hide in her party time lifestyle for a while, and once she graduates, she'll realize it's not as great as she thought it was. At this point, I suspect she'll start looking at the problems of this relationship, and a possible reconcilliation.

I ask these because I'm seeing somebody else myself, and I'm not sure I can go forward with any relationship until I have these questions answered. I've come to terms with the fact that she just may not love me anymore, and that's the premise I'm operating under, but my gut is nagging me, and I think I need to have a conversation with her to get all this off my chest. Just to feel like I did all I could for her.

Rehashing those things that are part of the past is an exercise in futility and will do you no good whatsoever. Leave her side of the street alone and worry about what goes on on your side. Worrying about her and what she is doing can only take the focus off you and the things you should be doing.

Given how you describe this girl, why aren't you just thankful to be rid of her?

If she can't deal with problems, can't be honest, and can't communicate... does it matter whether you believe her about why she broke up with you?

You already know she's not a keeper, so let her go and be glad you did.

I don't know she's not a keeper. I do know I have a lot of things to say, and I need to get them off my chest before I can feel like she's a waste of time. She's usually receptive, and will acknowledge when I say something of importance.

FZ, Since you already have your mind made up, and are going to do what you want, why are you asking us what you should do? Reread your other posts and see where your stubborn streak shows and the things you go through because your mind is already made up.

Move on with your life . When it is over it is over. Don't drag it out in any way. It only causes heart pain. It really doesn't matter what she said or how she thinks. It is over. Love is letting go and moving on. Don't be confused about how you feel. If you hurt moving on will help. Go have fun and live. This is the first day of the rest of your life, make it a happy one. Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow is waiting for you.

What I realize is that the closure I want can only come from her, and I'm probobly never going to get it. What I want to know is how can I achieve the kind of closure that is self provided? I feel like if I could reach a point where I feel like I did all I could, that'd be when I break. My new girl seems to think the only way I'm going to do this is if I just tell her everything I think, and walk away frustrated.

What if I wrote it all in a letter and mailed it? I think I'd feel closed and done, and it wouldn't leave her room to say anything that'd confuse me more. I'd also feel like I did all I could and weather or not it works isn't up to me. Does this sound like a healthier alternative?

You've got a new girl and still dwelling on the past? How unfair is that? Not healthy at all.

Realistically speaking I can't get what I want. I've accepted that, and I'm looking to close the book on my last relationship before I begin this new one. She's aware of everything that's going on and has helped me get through a lot of the worst spots. I told her I'm not ready for anything right now, and she's down with that for the time being. I'm looking to get rid of this feeling that there's something I can do about my last one, one way or the other, so that I can get out of this rut and start living my life again.

They way I see it your determined that this thing ends when YOU say so and not when she says so. She has moved on and your stuck until things happen the way you want them to.
I'm looking to get rid of this feeling that there's something I can do about my last one, one way or the other, so that I can get out of this rut and start living my life again.
Translate to your too stubborn to let go and in denial that its over. Full acceptance will free you from wasting your time, but sometimes we must run headlong into a brick wall before we figure it out. Make sure your honest with the new female and she is a rebound from a relationship you could not let go of.

She broke up with me over a text message. She has initiated contact with me once since we broke up, all the rest were initiated by me. I don't press her into talking about how we can fix this, I only ask her what I did wrong and why she's felt the need to avoid me. It's been 2 months now, and I still don't feel like she's being honest about this, mostly because she ran into another relationship right afterwards. Then claimed that she knew I'd find out, and didn't want to tell me because it was easier, and how she hates herself about that.

She's done practically no talking when we talk, she just says uhuh to everything I say and rarely offers any insight to what the problems were or what's going on. Every once in a while she'll admit that this is mostly her fault and her problem, which I don't believe, because I am at fault to a large degree.

To me when you're going to spend 2 years of your life with somebody, and you plan a future together and refuse plenty of opportunities to walk away from a relationship. To end it so cruely and coldly just doesn't happen. If you're sure about your decision and you're better off without this person, you tell them that, at the very least over the phone. I've gotten nothing but attempts at hiding from me and wishy washy answers. I'm looking to hear those words from her mouth, instead of inferring them from her actions.

And don't get me wrong, I see her as the same lost cause you guys do as well. I understand she wants the coward's way out and she's no good for me and that this is not behavior of an adult. I just don't want to believe that somebody can be so heartless, and I need to see it with my own eyes before I'll believe it. I'd also point out in case it isn't obvious, this is the first time anybody I loved has ever left me. So it's a learning experience.

As for the other girl, she's fresh off a hard breakup herself. So we're helping each other out, both of us are aware it's completely a rebound thing.

Believe me when I tell you that getting your feelings off your chest and making sure this girl knows how you feel will change absolutely nothing. You will have no closure, no feelings of relief, nothing, and it may only serve to frustrate you more.

You say you're not sure that she's not a keeper, by definition I think she is not a keeper. She's not some kid who doesn't know how to conduct themselves and not only be dignified but give dignity, even during a break up. She broke up with you via a text message. No matter how you treated her, that shows no maturity, courage or compassion of any kind. She runs from her problems hoping that they will disappear, that doesn't describe a healthy adult to me.

So ask yourself this, why don't you deserve a healthy partner to love and love you back? Or is it that you think you can't handle a healthy partner?? Why do you feel you need to be with someone who needs to be fixed?

Whether this guy she's dating is a rebound or not, who cares and why is that any of your concern now?? If she's afraid of commitment, who cares, you're not together anymore and nothing you can say or do can change that, that's this guy's problem now. Let her continue on living her party lifestyle, by keeping your thoughts and concerns in her reality, you won't get past her party lifestyle either but will just keep living it right along with her.

Whether she listens to what you have to say will change nothing. Why bother asking her a bunch of questions she may not want to or know how to answer, isn't she the girl who runs from her problems (i.e. confrontation)? The sooner you turn your back on this chapter in your life, the sooner you will get back on track and start living in the now.

You needed to get it off your chest, you just did, here.

When your significant other asks for space or a break, it's in all of our nature to almost instantly go running to them. It's hard to rationalize how not caring and being distant could actually bring them back, but try to use the logic on yourself. They are asking for space, which is sort of sending you the message they don't care. What do you do? RUN STRAIGHT TO THEM. What happens when you send them the message you're moving on? THEY RUN STRAIGHT BACK

I'd also point out in case it isn't obvious, this is the first time anybody I loved has ever left me.

That first time is rough


You needed to get it off your chest, you just did, here.
You should feel much better.

We need to make this an automatic reply on these kinds of posts...

It's so true. Laws of attraction.

It's also true that when you're in the thick of it relationship wise... it's like a paper bag is over your head and you can't think or see straight to save your life. All rational thought goes out the window.

People Want What They Can't Have.

Challenge.

Break these habits.

You can't be more right

Will someone explain me how to revearse it? Any tricks to prevent this happening?

will someone explain me how to revearse it? any tricks to prevent this happening?

It isn't about tricks or games.

Having a healthy and BALANCES relationship with lots of open communication will be your best prevention to having too many problems in a relationship!

No tricks. Just honesty!

I am all for it, but it doesn't always work that way. It didn't with me, I think that it is some people's nature to create drama, some like to be asked and like to play games. I think if you need space, you really need it,. you won't change your mind right when the other person has given you your space, you start playing tricks to get the person back... some people just don't know what they want. It is a torture.:(

It isnt about tricks or games.

Having a healthy and BALANCES relationship with lots of open communication will be your best prevention to having too many problems in a relationship!

No tricks. Just honesty!

That is great in theory, but rare in practice. Honesty, loyalty, and communication are my three biggest criteria for a relationship. It's very odd that communication is the hardest to have, at least in my experience.

Reality, That first love is all fireworks and sparklers and we don't have a clue what to do, but feel good. Its also a great teacher if we learn from that first breakup. As we grow and get to know ourselves we don't feel as stupid or caught up in the moment and deal with those breakup a whole lot better and seem to recover a lot more quick, if we remember the earlier lessons, and put on a helmet before we run headfirst into the brick wall. If we don't then we get our heads busted until we do remember that dang gone helmet. But as we go along through life we find the one, who we know is the one, and unfortunately that's when we realise that love is a hell of a lot of work and that helmet ain't helping nothing at all, so we take it off and get our heads busted again, DANG it. Now as I, ME got older and realise oops forgot the dang gone helmet again. Don't run head first into the wall at full speed. Walk up to it and look for the door. You can live without the helmet, but you damn better have a key to the door.

If honesty and communication didn't work for you then there isn't a hope in hell that games and tricks will.

What it might do is 'help' a relationship last a little longer than it would have without the games but eventually it will end in tatters and you'll wish that rather than play those silly games for so long, that both of you were honest and communicated openly with each other!

Check profile and look at questions asked for relationship.

I'm in the middle of a rebound relationship that's falling apart. (we both knew it was a rebound and this isn't a surprise, nor a problem)

So one of my dearest friends, also my third serious girlfriend died the other day. I'm lost and confused as all hell, and my instincts take me to my most recent ex girlfriend to talk about this. I don't think she wants to talk to me, she's seeing another dude, ETC, however I'm completely ON FIRE to talk to her about my life. No contact has been in effect since new year's, my rebound knows she's a rebound and doesn't care about me, so I wouldn't want to talk to her about it, but it's absolutely killing me that I can't talk to the one I care about. Can I break it for this? Or is the independence I maintain going to serve me? I'm still lost.

I had a similar experience. She won't appreciate that you want to talk to her about this. She'll talk to you, she'll help, but she'll look on it as burdensome. Talk to your family, talk to your friends... Don't talk to her.

I'm not really connected with my family. After my ex left me I ran out of friends, I made the mistake of making her my life instead of a part of it.

I'm not really connected with my family. After my ex left me i ran out of friends, i made the mistake of making her my life instead of a part of it.
So what does that tell you? No when you need someone you have no one. Whatever you do leave the ex alone. It would be selfish and very inconsiderate to break no contact for any reason and the rebound relationship? Thats who you should be talking to.

Hi Forever,

I am so sorry to hear about the loss of this girl. So understandable you want to run and tell the ex, but Forever, it is not a good idea for YOU. To share something so painful and something that hurts you to your heart, with someone, who doesn't cherish the fact that you are sharing that part of you with them, can only do you more harm.

The one you are with now, may be a rebound, but you have had to build some kind of at least a frienship. The important thing is to talk to someone about this pain, but the ex, would not be the one.

We are always here as well Forever. Again, so very sorry.

Allheart

So I'm just checking in for anybody that was paying attention at home, I've learned a few things, I've gone back and forward a couple of times, so here's where I'm at

With the rebound girl

- I don't have any feelings for her, she asserts the same likewise, and the comfort zone of another person is really all we're using each other for right now. It's mostly a friends with benefits situation, and we do sort of help each other out. I've been helping her understand herself better, she's been yelling at me when I don't go to the gym, so it's great. But I sense it's coming to an end soon, as expected, mostly because the void my ex left in my life is only getting filled by me, and I don't think I need somebody else at this moment.


With my life

- Things took a horrible turn for the worst when an important ex of mine died. I sort of turned to binge drinking daily and really did a lot of damage to myself. On the plus side, it was fun to pretend I was happy for a while, but now that's sort of catching up to me. It's been a few weeks of nonstop drinking, and this is finishing up day one of sobriety. I neglected my studies and my health, so I've been putting on weight and undoing all that hard work, and now I get to have the pleasure of working my off to try and catch up. Here's hoping!


With my ex

- The story is out there, last contact I had with her was the day after new years, a few of my friends took my phone and drunk dialed her, unknown to me, she then had her friend call back pretending to be the cops. She apologized the next day and I told her to stay out of my life. 2 weeks ago she had her friend drop off my things, after I told her repeatedly, way back in December to just throw them away, so I'm left with the idea she's at least thinking of me to some extent. I don't think her relationship with the new guy is serious, and I'm sort of feeling the urge to call her. Not really to hear what she has to say, but mostly because I feel like I left a lot of things unsaid. I figure everybody thinks they're in a position of healthiness when they give in and make that call, until they actually do it, then they're worse off, so I'm holding off as long as I can.

The reason I want to talk to her is mostly because this breakup has been unlike any of my others, because there's no one sided feelings. We both feel the same way (in the bad sense) and her problems with me all sound like problems I had with her. The reason I'm not deterred is because they do sound fixable to me. She's saying I wasn't emotionally available/supportive etc, and I felt the same way about her, but the real question is did she want to be? I suppose I do want to listen to what she has to say, but I also suppose I'm not going to believe anything she tells me anyway. I see a lot of potential in the conversation, but realistically I expect nothing but the opportunity to speak my mind once and for all. I also sort of want to keep the peace, we will be seeing each other out and stuff, and between her friends and mine, I see a lot of room for game playing to piss each other off. My friends don't like her, her's don't like me.

I doubt I'll call her though, I'm all talk.

Just a few thoughts to offer...
Hopefully for your sake, you will outgrow the inclination to be in anything with someone you have "no feelings for and vice versa". I think friends with benefits is messed up. I am glad to hear you are not likely to call her. Frankly, until this arrangement changes... "I suppose i do want to listen to what she has to say, but i also suppose i'm not going to believe anything she tells me anyway."... there really isn't any point to anything but the most surface chit-chat, unless of course you like games?

So on valentine's day my roommate accidentally texted my ex with "happy valentine's day what are your plans". She actually responded with her plans. This would be the second time my friends have used my phone and accidentally ended up doing something to her.

I figured after last time I was better off deleting all her contact info from my phone. This time he was texting my rebound, hit cancel instead of backspace, then went looking into the saved drafts to see if the text was preserved. The rebound and my ex both have the same area code/prefix so he found a saved draft of something I apparently started a while back to my ex and there you have it.

Explanations aside, the fact that she responded was a shock to me, so I just came up with something about playing in my snow fort and sent that in response. Problem I have now is that she's willing to talk to me, which is half the reason I haven't attempted to talk to her. I also heard the other day that she's been flirting with guys at the bar and stuff, which normally I'd consider a bad thing, but it's not really, only because she was with another dude like 2 weeks after we broke up. So her new relationship is falling apart and she's off to the next thing. This is a good thing because my theory is that she left me because of the looming spectre of commitment on the horizon, and is looking to just get out there and try different things.

At 22 years old, I'd be lying if I said I thought the relationship would be my last, but I'd also be lying if I said I thought that it was over. The reasons she gave me were shoddy at best, so I'm led to believe it's the panic response I thought it was earlier. Anyway, I'm thinking about giving her a call and seeing what she's up to. I realize it's not healthy, but I'm also a believer of out of sight out of mind, so I'd like for her to not be able to pretend I don't exist. Any thoughts?

Sounds like you're giving her a lot of power over you, again. If you're cool with that, go right ahead.

She loses her power the instant I believe it's over. I haven't been convinced yet, and I sort of think this will be a good opportunity to become convinced. I don't intend to cry and blubber, hell I don't even plan on talking about the relationship. I just want to see where she's at in terms of her coping process, if she seems like she's totally over it and just doesn't care anymore, I'd be satisfied. She doesn't know she has power over me. So I'm hoping for a light conversation that'll clue me in as to what's going on. I realize it's almost 99% certain I'm going to get hurt, but I haven't been hurt enough to begin healing. I've been waiting for this to see if I'm right or not.

Edit: I'm also retarded and this is my first time. So I also expect I'll learn what everybody else learned the same hard way.

This is a really bad idea.

She doesn't know she has power over you? Sure she does. From what she can see, you messaged her out of nowhere, asking about Valentine's Day. Even though it happens to be the truth, "My friend was using my phone and accidentally used your number" is going to sound like a face-saving excuse, cooked up in case things were awkward. She knows it for the wrong reason, but she knows it nonetheless.

Just remember, this isn't her coming back to talk to you. This is both of you being caught up because your friends were being irresponsible. Neither of you really know what's going on here because of that.

Point taken, but in all fairness she has tried to talk to me, and I told her to stay out of my life and stop talking to me. I do see your point, I also know it's a bad idea, which is going to make it that much funnier for other people, but I also feel like I need to do this for me. Know what I mean? I see the consequences, but I also see a potential payoff down the line. I'm probobly too confused to know what's best for me.

Inadvertently "spying" on your ex by way of a careless roommate's use of your phone? TWICE? Oh, please... let me offer my other leg so you can make them match since you're pulling some serious leg here! LOL That's what your ex will be thinking. This is what I'm thinking: games beget games, dude. Have fun!

I'd say that yeah, you're too confused to know what's best for you. On the upside, you've at least got your head on straight enough to accept that this is likely to cause issues, and you're honest enough with yourself to admit that it's probably not the best idea.

I still recommend against it. I can't stress that enough. But if you're set on going through with this, do yourself a favor, and don't go into it with any preconceived ideas of what's going to happen. Let the situation be what it is, don't try to force it, and don't expect anything.

Before you do anything reread all your posts. If you honestly think your course of action makes sense, read again. You have missed a few key things so keep reading until you find it.

Do what your going to do and learn the hard way like everyone else. Your obsessed. Keep getting slammed. Become the crazy ex. That's all it looks like your heading for and no one ever gets back with the crazy ex. She's not interested in you and she knows she has you wrapped around her finger. But by all means let her show you that again!

Rest assured guys, I'm going to laugh so hard when it goes exactly as everybody predicted it would. But at least I'll learn something.

I'm giving her a call later on tonight to see if I can grab lunch with her or something tomorrow. Right now my mindset is that, as much as I'd like to talk about the relationship, it's trivial. As much as I may believe our problems were solvable, it only matters if she believes that herself. So I intend to make no conversation about the relationship, instead my rationale is that if I show her who she fell in love with in the first place, minus all this emotional garbage, that's the best shot I've got at her keeping the door open.

I don't intend to do this to get back with her, I'm mostly interested in removing the awkard air from the situation. I do sort of want her back, but the relationship we had didn't work out for a reason, and a new one anytime soon wouldn't work out either, I'm mostly just trying to prevent her from keeping me out of sight out of mind. Wish me luck.

I still say you're setting yourself up for a fall but all the same, good luck my friend!

Do beware of getting yourself into the same old mess - not of feeling crappy for seeing her, but of getting back into a relationship with all the problems that yours had. Remember also that one good day does not repair the damage done... Even if things follow the most amazingly spectactular path possible that in no way indicates that a single thing has changed. ONly time will tell that. Don't get too high or too low... Again, good luck, and I really mean that.

I don't expect anything really, I'm prepared for the outcome that she ignores my call and doesn't ever reply. I'm also prepared for the outcome she shows up and really just doesn't seem interested and is only there for the sake of not making me upset. I suppose the only outcome I'm not prepared for is success, to be honest.

I know it looks stupid on paper, but I'm not getting my hopes up. The reality of the situation is that in order for me to have a successful relationship with her, we'd have to start over again, not pick up where we left off. I'm not prepared to start over again, and I can only assume she's not either. I wouldn't do anything in the neighborhood of a relationship with her until at the earliest June or July, even then, I'd rather wait till August or so.

Sounds like you've put a lot of planning into reestablishing a relationship with this girl... Sounds a lot like myself!

I really don't have much hope for what you're trying to accomplish, here...

If she left me for reasons that weren't imaginary, I'd agree with you. But nothing she's accused me of seemed to stick for a day or two. She couldn't come up with any good reasons to leave me, which says to me she's just in the mood to get out there and try other things. At 21 years old, I welcome that idea, I just wish she'd show a little more respect when she did it, instead of pretending like I'm abusive.

The reasons she left you are irrelevant. The relevant fact is SHE LEFT YOU! Have you ever thought that she just doesn't like you anymore but didn't have the hearty to say it to you?

Its over. You say you don't really want her back. I think your lying. I think you want her back bad and all this is an attempt to win her back. Been there, done that! Doesn't work! Stupid idea and only halts your progress.

All your best laid plans are pointless and I'm telling you it won't change a thing. Other than you will take a few steps back and feel worse when you realise that she has moved on and you haven't!


I don't expect anything really, i'm prepared for the outcome that she ignores my call and doesn't ever reply. I'm also prepared for the outcome she shows up and really just doesn't seem interested and is only there for the sake of not making me upset. I suppose the only outcome i'm not prepared for is success, to be honest.

I know it looks stupid on paper, but i'm not getting my hopes up. The reality of the situation is that in order for me to have a successful relationship with her, we'd have to start over again, not pick up where we left off. I'm not prepared to start over again, and i can only assume she's not either. I wouldn't do anything in the neighborhood of a relationship with her until at the earliest june or july, even then, i'd rather wait till august or so.

Does all this not read to you like some plan you have formulated in your head to win her back? Sure does to me!! You talk about success and how it looks on paper...

It will be anything but a success in more ways than you realise!

Like I said, the fact that she left me is almost trivial compared to why she did. I don't know why she did. I suspect it has to do with her fear of commitment, but even then, it's only my suspicion. This whole thing is my way of finding out why she left. Importantly, I'm not going to know what I did wrong if I don't know why she left.


There's no winning or being successful in this situation, I'm hoping to find out where I can make the most of what I lost.

That's all you have. Suspicions. You should be able to figure out for yourself why she probably left you if you have done some serious evaluating of yourself and the relationship.

Finding out off her won't change anything. The fact that she has left you remains the same!

Come on.. tell the truth. This isn't about finding out why she left you and all this other stuff your going on about. It is all about trying to get her back isn't it?

You have to remember a lot of us have been here a while and see patterns in peoples beahvior. You wouldn't be the first who was going to try such a stunt and you won't be the last. But I have to warn you that you playing with fire here and you will most probably get burnt!

But perhaps it is a mistake you will have to make in order for you to actually progress some more.

And I would like to know how your friends always seem to end up with your phone texting ex's?? What's going on there?? Sounds like something little school girls do in the playground!

Yea dude, I hear you. I've been reading these threads, and I'd be a moron if I seriously believed that this has never happened to anyone. As far as evaluating myself, the reality of the situation is she left me in November, and I've pretty much dwelled on it since then. I've been getting out there and seeing other girls, I even have a rebound, but no matter how many ways I toy with it, I can't come up with anything but the she panicked about commitment and left. Which is something that will work itself out eventually.

For new years I gave the phone to my friend who owns the house we were at, in another town, so that he could direct my soon to be rebound girl to the house. Afterwards he just kind of drunk dialed every girl on my list to get more girls at the party. After that I deleted her from my contact, and on valentine's day I was sort of done with my rebound and not talking to her, so I just left my phone off in my desk drawer, and my roommate is friends with her, and I drank all his wine, so he got pissed and decided to mess around with her, because he'd been talking to her and she's all trying to get me back and stuff.

We're in college, I might add.

I understand what your saying. We have all been where you are and we have all contemplated doing what you are planning. Some carried through with it and now regret it, others were wise enough to heed our warnings and continued to worry about themselves and move forward. They all say they were so glad we talked them out of trying to win back the ex. It doesn't work!

Look November wanst that long ago. It is going to hurt for while yet. You are going to feel lonely and down. It sucks. But it is all part of the process. I have been broken up with my ex for almost 12 months now and I still have days and moment where it hurts a little. Little things can trigger it off. But I'm telling you I am so much better now than I was 6 months ago. And I credit that to listening to people here, not contacting the ex, working on myself and not even contemplating what she is thinking. You can't control her thoughts, but you can control your own.

So give yourself time and treat yourself good and gradually it will get better and I'm sure you will be happy in a couple of months time that you didn't call her and meet her.

Oh yeah and ditch the rebound. Its unfair on her and believe it or not even unfairer on yourself. You just don't realise it! But using someone else to make yourself feel better will only make you feel worse in the long run!

She's fresh off a hard relationship too. So we're exploiting each other in the same way. I had this discussion with her, she's aware of what she's playing with, and I am too.

Yeah but it ain't going to help you! Find some happiness on your own. Find yourself!!

I generally tend to find booze and cartoons

Okay foreverzero, this is the last time I'm going to post on this because I'm not really sure what you are looking for here. Your supposed roommate text her? That sounds like a carefully planned thought for you to make contact with her and it sounds like you are misleading us as well. Because now you want to contact her because she responded to that? This makes no sense and it looks like you are playing games. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and take being dumped like a man. You are a man right? Good luck with that dinner, if you are able to actually land it. You are trying way tooo hard and wasting too much time on this. At some point I hope you start to see the light of day!

Honestly, I'd be the first to tell a bunch of anonymous strangers what sorts of dumb things I'd do to play games to get her back. Right now, the only game I've been playing with her, is the one where I do as instructed by the vast majority of people, both here and amongst my friends, ignore her, pretend like she doesn't exist and move on with my own life. I never reached the point where I felt like I was doing it for me, I felt like I was doing it because that's what everybody tells me to. I'm being truthful about the texting thing, and I'd truthfully admit that I was being clingy and needy when she broke up with me. But I also am sort of lacking the ability to ignore signs like this. There was a time when I was being clingy, she didn't want anything to do with me. I cooled off for a week or two and she wanted to talk to me. I cooled off for a month and she began to panic and doubted her decision, I told her to stay out of my life.

I'm doing this so that I feel better knowing it could not have worked any other way.

This is a case where the truth doesn't matter. Not in the slightest. What matters is what she thinks happened. Which is this:

You texted her about Valentine's Day.
You concocted some barely believable story about how it was an accident so you wouldn't look like you were being clingy.
Hey, look, you're getting back together.

This is what she sees. This is what she will ALWAYS see. Everything between the two of you from this point on is going to be based on that. This could be rightfully called relationship hell. Go ahead with it if you want, but at least go into it knowing that she sees this very differently than you do.

Your friend has inadvertently screwed you over.

I wasn't going to explain how it happened, mostly because I figured the same things you did, she won't believe it. My plan is to just have a normal conversation with her that doesn't revolve around the relationship. I ain't doing this specifically to bring her back, I'm doing this because I'm tired of going out and being worried about weather or not I'll see her. I'm also tired of feeling like I'm supposed to be waiting for her to come back, and that there may or may not be something I can do to bring her back. I don't know what I want, but I know what I don't want, and that's feeling like this. I want to see for my own eyes how her life is better without me, because that's all that will convince me. It will hurt, but you only get stronger from getting beat up.

This is my tactic to put myself back in a position of power. If I can present myself as somebody that is totally over it and moved on and hey let's be friends in attitude, it'll work out, mostly because I know that she'll be the one that has the ball in her court at all times. There's not a damn thing I can do, because I know pleading and stuff isn't going to bring her back, even if it did, I wouldn't want that. If she comes back, it's got to be because she wants to.

I've been reading these responses and tried to stay out of this thread because it I so obvious you are just not ready for a healthy relationship and are clinging to this one because of some unknown fear of being alone that you don't want to face . Further I have been reading the advice you give others and it is easy to see you can repeat things, but you don't want it for yourself, so I would strongly suggest we stop the games and you do your thing your way and let us know how it turns out. And please stop repeating what you heard here and passing it off as heart felt advice, because it isn't.

So your plan is to act a certain way to make her think your over her even though you really aren't? Well and good but where does leave you and how does it do anything to improve the way you feel?

Look, I know exactly where your at. I was there too once myself. Your lying to us, but more importantly your lying to yourself. I know it, you know it and everyone else here knows it! And we all understand too. It is hard to let go and accept it is over. Ask anyone here and they will tell you the same thing I am. At some stage we all held on to this false hope that everything was going to work out and be fine and rosy. We all texted our ex, acted in certain ways to manipulate the way our ex see's us. It was only when we actually accepted it was over and began worrying about our own feelings and not our ex's that we began to heal.

You don't get power back by acting! You get power back by accepting it is over and taking control of your life again. What she is doing and thinking has no bearing on your power. The person who bears responsibility for your level of power is YOU! Can't you see that you are actually relinquishing more power by not being true to yourself and putting on an act? Tactics and plans don't give you power... Not at all! Being honest and true to yourself will give you all the power you need.

Perhaps you just like the rest of us need to make the same mistakes. Im coming to think it is just part of the process. Because no matter what we say you will still want to satisfy your intrigue and go ahead with your plan. Im pretty sure I know what the result will be but we'll just have to wait and see I suppose.

Good luck!

I've been reading these responses and tried to stay out of this thread because it i so obvious you are just not ready for a healthy relationship and are clinging to this one because of some unknown fear of being alone that you don't want to face . Further I have been reading the advice you give others and it is easy to see you can repeat things, but you don't want it for yourself, so I would strongly suggest we stop the games and you do your thing your way and let us know how it turns out. And please stop repeating what you heard here and passing it off as heart felt advice, because it isn't.


The sincerity of the advice I give is not in question, it's all sincere to the best of my ability to see the way they present their relationships. Problem I have is the problem everyone else has, I can tell everybody else exactly what's wrong in their situation, I just can't see it in my own. I'm too emotionally entangled at this point, and while I appreciate the efforts you guys put forth to talk me out of it, this is one of those stupid things I just have to do for myself. Then I can say it to everybody else with my own experiences talking, not just what I saw other people do.

So it is a matter of 'do as I say and not as I do' is it?

Im not sure if tal was questioning the sincerity of your advice, but more the right for you to give it. How can you expect someone to follow your advice when you do not yourself! Quite contradictory!

Dudes, I take no offense to anything you guys see, I'm quite capable of seeing how hypocritical I sound, but on the other hand, I think it's stupidity like this that will let my advice line up with my beliefs, you know?

And if this is something that you just must do for yourself then do it. You probably do have to make the mistakes yourself and feel the pain. You have to hit the bottom of the barrel before you can start improving I suppose.

But just don't say you weren't warned and please don't expect people to continue to beat there heads against a wall offering their thoughts on what you should do. Sure we will always be here to help and listen to you vent, but we can only offer so much advice on how we think the best way for you to handle it is. And one more thing. Please don't expect this charade of to yours to work. As you can see your fooling no one here and you sure as hell won't fool her. At least not in the long run!

Good luck!

I don't expect anything really, i'm prepared for the outcome that she ignores my call and doesn't ever reply. I'm also prepared for the outcome she shows up and really just doesn't seem interested and is only there for the sake of not making me upset. I suppose the only outcome i'm not prepared for is success, to be honest.

I know it looks stupid on paper, but i'm not getting my hopes up. The reality of the situation is that in order for me to have a successful relationship with her, we'd have to start over again, not pick up where we left off. I'm not prepared to start over again, and i can only assume she's not either. I wouldn't do anything in the neighborhood of a relationship with her until at the earliest june or july, even then, i'd rather wait till august or so.
For what its worth, its been my observation of "how it works" that whatever broke you two up in the first place will remanifest itself regardless of you telling yourself it's a fresh start or a continuation. Holy cowabunga dude, semantic games won't even begin to cover it! LOL It is what it is and it will not be ducked NEARLY that easily. To think it can be is to seriously underestimate it and frankly, the second time it's a whole lot stronger too because you two have break-up history now and, come to think of it, you'll have break-up history come August too. You best get a whole lot better at lying to yourself (and everyone else) if you are even going to stand a chance. I can see all the lies from here! LOL Just food for constructive thought, if that's even possible with you?

With regards to val, the breakup was the product of the two of us "being backed into our corners", I quote it because it's the line my counselor used. Meaning that we're not usually like this in our other relationships, and we want the same things, problem is we don't know how to get them. My counselor agrees that it is probobly the product of the emotional extreme we got pushed into early on in the relationship, she was raped and caught and STD, and waited to tell me until well after I'd gotten it from her. I don't want to make excuses for her, but I'm fairly understanding of her not knowing what to do to be responsible in that situation. As far as getting back together goes, that's up to her, and if we did, I think it'd be apparent in a month or two if it's the product of the situation or a product of the people, either way, I don't feel like we reached the natural end of this relationship.

With regards to val, the breakup was the product of the two of us "being backed into our corners", i quote it because it's the line my counselor used. Meaning that we're not usually like this in our other relationships, and we want the same things, problem is we don't know how to get them. My counselor agrees that it is probobly the product of the emotional extreme we got pushed into early on in the relationship, she was raped and caught and STD, and waited to tell me until well after i'd gotten it from her. I don't want to make excuses for her, but i'm fairly understanding of her not knowing what to do to be responsible in that situation. As far as getting back together goes, that's up to her, and if we did, i think it'd be apparent in a month or two if it's the product of the situation or a product of the people, either way, i don't feel like we reached the natural end of this relationship.
Here's the thing I don't think you get. While there are probably little factual truths woven all through this last post, I am still not buying a whole lot of what you're saying. Bottom line (pun intended LOL) is exactly zero. I suggest you reread Post #25, think about the reality of it all in far more truthful terms and know that I have posted here for the last time in the same way as Copperhead did. Good luck.

I called. She's down for it. Tune in Saturday for the next exciting installment.

I think you are in massive denial!

And this isn't no soap opera. Its life. Or is it?? Perhaps...

Never mind. Good luck with whatever it is your doing. I hope everything works out for the best for all of you!

Met with my ex for coffee today, talked for 3 hours. It was fantastic. She's reaching most of the same conclusions I am, and is not opposed to the idea of trying things again, she wants to do her own thing for a bit longer, and also wants to explore her options. Have another date set up next week, hopefully, things will go well.

Met with my ex for drinks yesterday, we ended up talking for 3 hours. Mind you none of what I'm posting here is the product of me coaching her. She's said that she's beginning to go through a process of a lot of personal growth. She realizes she spends too much time running from the problem and hoping it goes away, and realizes it doesn't work. She also indicated that just recently is when she started being capable of separating me from the situation of the relationship. She basically acknowledges that the problems in the relationship weren't the product of my personality, just that it's what happens when people are backed into a corner.

One of the other key developments is that she also believes that she didn't leave me, she left the relationship. AKA she didn't want to leave, she needed to. That's an unhealthy relationship, both of us are aware, but neither one of us was interested in hurting each other, we just couldn't find out how to get our points across. We wanted the same things but didn't know how to get them.

She wants to keep me in her life, but at a distance for the time being until she figures things out more. She hasn't ruled out the idea of reconciliation either, although she's hesitant to comment on it.

So my question is, does this sound to you guys like there's a potential for something real to happen again? I realize most of the people would say that I'd be wise to let it go and wait for her to come to me, but on the other hand, she said she hadn't called to talk in a while because she felt bad after what she'd done, and assumed I'd never want to talk to her again. So out of sight is out of mind, particularly for somebody that's as meek as she is right now. Thoughts or advice?

Sounds like you're hanging your hopes on something that has a very real possibility of falling through... Good luck!

I think you'd be wise to let it go and move on with your life.

Although she may well be genuine in what she said to you it appears as though as she wants to keep you at arms length so she can go either way. If someone else comes along she can completely leave you and move on, or if not she always has you there waiting for her.

I wouldn't be waiting.

My honest opinion here is that I only see more pain for you. You keep making excuses for her, as you have done from the start here. The simple fact is that she broke up with YOU and the relationship. There were reasons for it and most probably justifiable reasons, whether you see them or not.

As I said I only see more pain for you. I see you waiting and waiting and trying and trying. It may get her back at some stage but it will most likely not work again.

Do you want to got through all this again?? Or do you want to move on and begin being truly happy again?

She wants to keep me in her life, but at a distance for the time being until she figures things out more. She hasn't ruled out the idea of reconciliation either, although she's hesitant to comment on it.

You could keep her in your life but at a very safe distance and not wait around for the tide to change. Continue with your life as you have been without her. You do owe that to yourself. I see this as a fishhook without the bait, it is dangling out there, so that you are aware, but nothing on it.

Continuing with your life, getting emotionally healthy, meeting other people, the list goes on, is your main concentration. Who is to say what can or cannot happen with your ex? Who is to say that the hardships from the past cannot come back in a different form and totally mess you up? To be fair to the other side of the coin, who is to say that the lessons learned from the past cannot be the light of understanding to your future?

But I honestly would not hang around waiting. It is like fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. What happened before can happen again and I would not want to see you hurt again.

There is such a thing as fatal attraction - emotionally fatal. Take care of yourself first.

Oh, I'm not waiting for her. I'm keeping my options open and getting out there and meeting other girls, just as she's doing the same with other guys. But this sort of indicates, emotionally, she's precisely where I thought she'd be. This also indicates that if she hits the rest of the maturing process, she'd probobly realize what I've been saying all along. She caused more problems trying to avoid the problems then I did trying to solve them. I feel mostly like she's to blame for a lot of our problems, and it stems from her refusal to acknowledge them. Ignorance is bliss, up to a point. She did say that despite that fact that she couldn't figure out how to be there for me and help us out, she wanted to be.

Leaving a person and leaving a relationship are two different things. Leaving me would mean that there's acompatability issue between me and her, and more likely than not, would never get solved. Leaving a relationship is a different animal altogether. The best analogy I can give, and it's home made, so I copyright it and none of you sukkaz steal it, would be this.

It's like pieces of a puzzle, there's two kinds of emotional pain you can cause a person. The first, and most common kind, is when you take two pieces of the puzzle that don't fit together, and you try to force them together. The only solution is to take them apart, and that's what makes it better. The other kind of emotional pain you can cause a person is when you take two pieces of the puzzle that fit together, and try to put them together the wrong way. The only solution there is to take them apart, and look at them to see how they might fit.

I feel like we've been at the second point for a while now. I don't think she's the one and we'll be together forever or whatever, but I do think that the way we tried to fit together was doomed to fail on day one, and I'd like to see if it gets further if we try it the right way. I'm not hanging on to the idea that it'll be forever true, but I do think that there's more to our connection than we allowed to happen the first time around.

Good for you. You got your head on straight. Sometimes it is easy to lose some focus. Glad to see you know what is what. And you are right about her remaining a part of your life - all exes are part of our life, no matter what. It is part of our history.

Take care.

I think you're in denial right now. Despite the fact that you're saying you're not waiting for her, it really really seems like you are, from what you've just posted. Re-read what you posted and maybe you'll see what I mean.

And please please please don't try anything with any other girls until you truly moved on, I really don't want to see another person hurt.

What I'm saying might be completely wrong, because you're the only person that's know what's going on. You're the only person that know what you're thinking, what you really want. But I'm just pointing out the possibility of you denying that you're still waiting for her.

From grey's anatomy ^__^ (sorry I just re-watched the whole serie)
"We deny that we're tired, we deny that we're scared, we deny how badly we want to succeed. And most importantly, we deny that we're in denial. We only see what we want to see and believe what we want to believe, and it works. We lie to ourselves so much that after a while the lies start to seem like the truth. We deny so much that we can't recognize the truth right in front of our faces.

Sometimes reality has a way of sneaking up and biting us in the a** . And when the dam bursts, all you can do is swim. The world of pretend is a cage, not a cocoon. We can only lie to ourselves for so long. We are tired, we are scared, denying it doesn't change the truth. Sooner or later we have to put aside our denial and face the world. Head on, guns blazing. De Nile. It's not just a river in Egypt, it's a freakin' ocean. So how do you keep from drowning in it?"

Denial would be if I said this relationship was great, and she's coming back to me any minute now. Denial is believing she's totally thrilled at the idea of getting back together. Denial is thinking she broke up with me to teach me how to be better for her. Denial is thinking if I just wait another month she'll be back. Denial is thinking if I just fix all my problems she'll be back.

I don't think I'm in denial. I'm looking at the facts. She thinks about me every day. She misses me enough to come and have a conversation with me and say this. She had every opportunity to leave the conversation at day to day crap. She chose to talk about the relationship. She chose to tell me she felt those things listed before. She chose to tell me about her rebound guy, and was clearly bothered by my rebound girl. She also made no attempts at keeping me on the hook for no reason, she declined to talk about getting back together.

Those facts tell me she's not over it. That's step one. If she decided she was over it, this conversation would not have happened, and she wouldn't say those things. That's the easy part, nobody is really over a 2 year relationship in 3 months. The hard part is when she came to the conclusion that she needed to do a lot of work on herself without me prodding her. That's hard stuff to realize all by yourself. I don't think I'm a fool for believing in her, but I do think that it's foolish to cling to something that doesn't exist. I'm not clinging, but something does exist. What it is, I want to find out.

I'd also add, that I'm also looking seriously at the possibility that, let's say she comes back tomorrow, we date for a few weeks and realize it'll never be the same. Or we'll never feel that way again. Or we're having the same fights over again. Those are all real possibilities, but I feel like a relationship is over when it reaches its natural end. Those are natural ends, and this is not.

I don't think you are looking at all the facts! But good luck in whatever happens!

YOu don't seem to be taking into the account that she's a pretty cowardly person... She may be doing a lot of this just because she thinks it's what you want and what will make you happy... TO translate, that she's doing it because she thinks it will keep you from being hurt.

Don't assume what she tells you is the truth... Look at what she does.

But, like we've said, only you can know. Do what you have to do.

I thought about that for a while, but she's done her fair share of being a coward. She strikes me now as somebody that's attempting to take charge. She spent the better part of 20 minutes explaining to me, maturely, how sorry she was that she "didn't have the balls to tell" me about the other dude. I doubt she's the spineless person that broke up with me, but I'm also taking that into consideration. Keep them coming.

You say how happy you have been since it ended and how you have been enjoying life without her. And she has been doing the same.

Why then do you want to go back to something that you didn't enjoy and didn't work?

Why are you even focusing so much on all of this? Why don't you just keep going down the path that was so great? Or wasn't it as great as you were making out? Have you really wanted her to change her mind and come back all along?

I wouldn't build my hopes up. People will tell you, it ended for a reason. You can stay in touch if you like but I wouldn't build my life around the prospect of eventually reconciling. Work on yourself now and live your own life for you, not for her or anyone else.

You basically made up your mind before you posted here. From what I'm seeing, you believe she changed, and are willing to give her a try if the opportunity arises.

The act of making a topic about reconciliation is a sign of you waiting for her.
The act of you analyzing her is a sign of you waiting for her
The act of you figuring out what's going on in her head is a sign of you waiting for her.

You're still clinging onto something with her. Real or not. If I was in your position, I think I'll be really confused, and would be dying for closure. So here are my questions to you:


I realize most of the people would say that I'd be wise to let it go and wait for her to come to me

What if she never comes to you? Will you be able to move on with all those positive thinking in your head?

And

What if she does? What problems could arise if you try things out with her again? Will you really be able to let go of all those things that happened before the break up and after the break up? Will you be able to trust her as much as before? Will you be willing to put in the effort of helping her fix her problems and problems between the two of you?

It's not better. It's easier. One thing I refuse to do is go back into the old relationship and fix everything. That won't work. We skipped a critical step in that relationship, and it was the first one, where you build that comfort zone that allows criticism to be constructive, not destructive. The only way it'd work out between us is if we took it slow and steady from step one. Not running back to the same old thing, starting over again.

I didn't hate being in that relationship. Nobody sits there for 2 years when they hate it, and other things have come along. I chose to stay in it because I liked being with her. I didn't like the bull that came with it, and from the way it sounds, that's fading away.

That's not waiting for her. Waiting for her would be if I declined to go out with other girls. Waiting for her is telling people I'm not single. Waiting for her is dropping my life's schedule to accommodate her on the off chance she wants my time. She may dominate my thoughts, but that's expected at this stage, and she sure as hell does not dominate my actions. I've been out and about, causing trouble and stuff. Right now my heart is still hers, and nothing but time will change that.

For the time being, I'm reading people's thoughts and taking them into consideration. Yes I have made up my mind, but some people offer advice that changes it. Right now I'm open to that possibility. Thanks for all the concern though.

She dominates your thoughts, and your heart is still hers...

Time will not change that, time is just time. It is what you do with time that will allow you to move on. Which you obviously do not want to at this moment.

That is true. Time doesn't heal all wounds, it makes them easier to hide. You choose to heal them or let them fester. Sometimes Your choice pays off. Sometimes it doesn't. Right now I'm at the stage where I feel like there's a possibility, and I have to explore it. I realize I'm setting myself up to get hurt later on, but I'm also enduring the possibility of things working out. Thanks for the help.

Well good luck with that then :)

I never said you hated her or the relationship. Hate is not a word I use. Don't put words in my mouth. There are numerous posts from you in the past though saying you didn't enjoy it. Fair enough. There are also numerous posts where you have told us how happy you are now.

Kaitou's posts above are spot on the money in my opinion! Damn rep system.

I know where you are. Trust me. I have been there.

Do you think she has changed, or do you think you want her to be changed so much that you see her as changed.

You are blind by your love for her. That's fine.

But you still seem to keep running from the fact that she left you. Not just the relationship, but you as well. It is over and over for a reason. Look I would love for her to come back to you and you share a happy and fulfilling life together. But the chances of that happening are next to nothing. As much as id love to see you happy with her, id hate to see you waste so much time feeling miserable and waiting for her to come back when she more than likely isn't.

Id much prefer to see you begin to truly heal. I'm not sure that you are yet. But it is a process and it takes time. We have all felt like you do now in own situations and it is nothing out of the ordinary!

I'm looking for a pattern. Did you, or anybody else, post breakup have this conversation with your ex? I don't mean a forced conversation where, when cornered, they tell you what you want to hear. I mean the conversation where she volunteers to come, confesses all that, admits that a lot of the problems she once thought were my fault, were hers, and spends much of her time trying to convince me she's a better person, without the intention of getting me back. Because, remember, she image she has in her mind of my life, isn't the same as the one that's reality. She's heard of my exploits with my rebound girl/s and believes I have no hope for her. She knows I know she's got some other dude on the line, so for all intents and purposes, she believes I'm over it, and it's a done deal.

Is this an ordinary conversation to have, or is this unusual?

Picking up where I left off before, here's part two of a rant. After life is what you make it.

Here's the deal, exceptions bar none, nobody is looking for advice. They're looking for an accomplice, myself included. It's easy to disregard the advice of others, especially when you think your situation is different from theirs. That's what makes it easy to ignore, but the reality of life is, IT IS DIFFERENT. This is a double edged sword. When wildcat (No offense, I'm just picking a name I like, no personal attack here, I'll pick chuff next time) breaks up with my girlfriend, wildcat can say he knows what's best for me because he knows my girlfriend. Wildcat didn't get dumped by my girlfriend. Wildcat doesn't know as much about her as I do. So try not to hold the advice of others in high esteem, but on the other hand, don't disrespect the advice of others because, in the end, you came asking for it. AND I PUT THIS PART IN CAPS BECAUSE ITS IMPORTANT, you need to listen and pay attention. I catch a lot of flak for going against the advice of others, but in reality, I do appreciate their help, and I am paying attention. But I'm an experiential learner. I'm the kid that still puts his hand on the stove after mom told me not to. That's when I stop doing it. You may be too, but that's up to you.

I have considered the idea that I'm crazy and delusional, and it's not out of the question, but on the other hand, I don't agree. Emotions play an important part in the situation of a relationship. It's not all just about the facts, because as stated in my earlier rant, there's only one fact involved in a breakup, everything else is speculation. Nobody knows that my ex girlfriend didn't leave me to date mike tyson. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? No. that being said I, and YOU are left to your own best logic to determine what the right course of action for you is. Personally, and this is a dangerous opinion to have, so don't pick on me too much, believe that if the advice of a bunch of people stops me from doing what I want to do anyway, I must not have felt that seriously about it. In my situation, I've yet to find a single individual on this board that agrees with my course of action, and I'm aware of this. Yet I do it anyway. Why is that? I don't know, but it'll be a learning experience when I find out.

Am I looking for a series of people to tell me what I want to hear? Could be. Am I looking for an answer to a question that can't be answered yet? Most definitely. The point I'm getting at is that before you do anything, anything at all, you have a responsibility to yourself to weigh out all the options. If you still choose to do it, you're on your own, but don't be surprised if other people were right.

Off the topic of me, and back on the general matter at hand. Love is not anything people can understand. It's not a fact and it isn't a science. It's not particularly predictable, and it sure as hell isn't easy to come by. That's why every single person here there and everywhere needs to understand something. You don't need a relationship. You'll live and die all the same with or without a partner. It's an added perk to life, but it's by no means guaranteed. So here's the lesson of the day. When you choose to play the game and fall in love, YOU'RE PLAYING WITH FIRE, SO PREPARE TO GET BURNED. You'll get burned more than you'll get what you want. In fact, you're guaranteed to get burned an infinite number of times, and it's only POSSIBLE to get what you want once. Like those odds? Nobody does, but people do it anyway.

So here's the tie in. We all know true love, statistically speaking, is highly improbable, but people do it anyway. There's a light at the end of the tunnel. Why hang somebody out to dry for playing those odds with an ex? It may seem stupid, but then again so does trying for true love, yet nobody seems to blame the guy at the bar as much as the guy calling his ex 1012039120 times. Why is that? Very few people understand the person that's crying to his ex 242340 times, yet they think it's stupid? It's just as stupid to try to meet somebody you'll fall in love with.

Moral of the story. Don't blame people for doing stupid things. It's in our nature to do stupid things for a reason. Try to play nice, but to the people doing stupid things: Try to realize that most of the time, people are smarter than you.

Have the thought that maybe the intention behind her confession to you was a closure for herself? Her personal growth could have made her realize own mistake, and now she's feeling really bad and guilty. And just really want to apologize to you.

No, I did not think of that, and it's tips like that, that make me reconsider my plan of action. I'll weigh that in too, thank you. My first reaction is, that it's plausible, but I'd argue that it's a natural part of the process, one way or the other. While I think that it's a large motivating factor, I'd also argue that if that was the majority of her purpose, she'd discontinue contact in most forms. She's encouraging me to stay in touch, and knows full well I'm not interested in talking about tiddleywinks. She also knows that I'm gunning to get her back, and were I in her shoes with your mindset, I'd look to end contact after she's been absolved of her guilt. We'll see, I'll think on it more. Thanks again.

Also, on top of that, I ask the question, if this was a goal at making peace with herself, for whatever her reasons being. It wouldn't make sense that she'd go on about how much X Y and Z that she does in her day to day life remind me of her. And that she was upset by X Y and Z that she heard I said.

Meaning if she's just feeling sorry for me, even knowing I was right and looking to just call it even with herself, I don't think she'd allude to having feelings towards me. Particularly I don't think she'd be obsessing over what I've been doing, because it became clear to me within minutes she'd been just as obsessive as I have been. I'll add more tomorrow if I come up with more. Thanks again.

Hi ForeverZero,
Well you seem intelligent, so just do what you think is best. Every situation is different.
Good luck,

So here's the lesson of the day. When you choose to play the game and fall in love, YOU'RE PLAYING WITH FIRE, SO PREPARE TO GET BURNED.

Quite true, however, you reduce this risk if through experience you learn to open your heart to the right person and this is through good judgment, instinct and a little courage too. There will still be a risk of being burned and you will still be playing with fire but it is a risk one must take to achieve happiness through love.

If any thing you said where true you wouldn't have to work so hard to convince yourself. You have assumed a lot about her thoughts and actions which is very dangerous, and gives you a false reality. While I agree it takes longer than 2 months to get over a 2 year relationship, You have done nothing to heal yourself and get healthy. You have not moved on and are still holding on and fooling yourself with false logic, that happens to match what you want, and is no way based in fact. In other words delusional at this point and unhealthy for you both. Go back and look what you've posted since you've been here, and see how stuck you've been. At some point you must stop analyzing, and start acting in your own behalf.

In the end foreverzero, you will give up on all this analyzing. I've been there, trust me, but in time, you will just give up and begin your path of healing. Like Skell says, I don't think you are quite at that point yet.

Like tal says above, never assume what she is thinking or feeling.

Same rules apply to everyone, Live and Learn. Some learn more quick than others.

Love is not anything people can understand. It's not a fact and it isn't a science. It's not particularly predictable, and it sure as hell isn't easy to come by.



I humbly disagree. I didn't think love was a predictable thing also. Learning from the experiences with my ex and from other people's stories, I have changed my mind. Love is a chemical reaction in your brain. That's all there's to it. I took the advice people told me here (experienced people) and guess what, everything they predicted became true. I'll always remember Wildcat's favorite line: "people want what they can't have". At first I didn't believe it could be that simple. I thought human behaviour has got to be more complex than that. The truth is that human psychology -especially when it comes to love- is as predictable as any other human behaviour, just like drinking eating and sleeping. Because you (we) were dumped, we cannot see the simplicity of it, because we are blinded by our own emotions. And even that is predictable behaviour.

She came back.

All the planning and scheming I resorted to has brought me to this very moment when I finally reap the rewards of what I've sewn.

I don't want her back anymore, she hasn't changed a bit and I've wised up to her game.

Thanks for all the helpful advice that I chose to ignore, ultimately you guys were right, but for the wrong reasons, but I appreciate it all the same. I'm enjoying single life, and will continue to do so. It ain't so bad.

Well look on the bright side, at least you tried everything you possibly can :). I still look back sometimes and regret that I didn't try hard enough.

But anyway at least you finally made up your mind! Good luck with everything

I must admit I'm sort of jealous to know you know have all the power...

Good luck in whatever comes zero

Recently I've been reconsidering the idea of getting back together with my ex seriously. It's a confusing ordeal, but the long story short is that she dumped me, realized most of the problems of the relationship are her fault, then tried to say she's only like that with me, then tried to get back together, but she really hadn't changed much so I turned her down. After that she then turned around and accused me of causing all the problems, we had a big blow up, she returned to not caring anymore, and that's where we're at.

So what I'm getting at for you guys, is that I honestly see a lot of potential. Things went sour fast between us once we started patching up because she's not ready yet, she said it herself, she's not the person she wants to be, and needs to figure things out for herself for a while. When I left her alone for a few months, she started seeing things my way, which leads me to believe leaving her alone will be good in general for both of us. When we last spoke, we left it at she was going to get ahold of me when she's finished patching herself up or whatever.

So what would you guys do? I see a lot of potential in getting back together, she sometimes does, sometimes doesn't, which is a good indication to stay away, however I'm feeling inclined to give her a call to smooth things over a bit, because they got real ugly last time we talked and I said a lot of things I didn't mean. After that I'd like to just leave things be, because it's out of my hands. Communication lines have been open for a while, and one of the reasons I'm keeping my distance is because I have the tendency to want to help her with this, but either she won't let me or there's nothing I can do anyway, so I learned my lesson on that on that one.

In summary: make that call to say my piece in the good way? Last time we spoke it was angry I hate you make peace with myself. This time it'd be good, you're not as bad as I come across make my peace.

As far as emotions go, I can do with or without this call, so I'm not really dwelling as much as I would have in the past, I just feel inclined to smooth things over so they don't turn ugly if we run into each other in person.

Dude move on... WAY too much drama to handle... go find a NORMAL healthy gal.

I have a STRONG feeling - and you have already seen this - once the coast is clear she will go back to her ways.

She takes you for granted. Find a loving woman.

Bo not make that call.

And we need to change your handle. Think positive. Confidence.

Well, my theory on that, is that there's a difference between change and growth. Change is temporary. Change is when you be somebody different for somebody else's sake, or because somebody told you that you had to. That's when people revert and nothing happens. Growth is when you realize that you're not the kind of person you want to be, and make an effort to become a better one. Growth takes a lot of time and a lot inner strength, and that's why I turned her down in the first place. It's been 4 months, and at the 3 month mark she was just starting to realize she needed to grow, so there's no overnight fixing happening here, which I'd be wary of.

I'm usually pretty spot on with people, and I think she's going to be one of the ones that actually grows instead of ignoring the problem. After all, I spent 2 years of my life with her, and so far I'm batting a thousand on what's been going on in her head. Thanks for the help and keep it coming dude.

As far as the handle goes, I wanted Skiperior Hot Dog Squad!! But it's too long. Also would have accepted LASOR BEAM DEATH SQUAD!! Or HungryHungryHobo!

Well you do have a good handle on this - I agree 1000% people will ACT out what you want for a short time.

Reminds me of gal I thought was the one - all nice and sweet for a couple - months turned out she was a massive controlling, selfish, crab. Yuck.

That's why I always ADVISE - don't mortgage your soul to a stranger! Wait like a year before you put TOO much importance into anyone.

I'm also feeling the clock ticking here, I go home for summer break, and then I've got my last year of college before I head off to NYPD 7 hours away from her, so I'm sort of interested in getting this done soon.

You guys seems pretty heated still. I think you should do this over a letter instead of a phone call. A phone call could make things more complicated, you might end up not being able to stay level-headed in a phone call, because she's right there. (eg. What if she's still bitter when you call her?). A letter on the other hand, at least you can write down everything you want to, and stay clear headed. It also gives her time to think about it before she respond.

Haven't had enough drama huh? Leave her alone and go about your life and stop the theories and queries. Smooth over what? There is nothing to smooth over except you accepting she's a nut, as are you, and this is a closed chapter in your life. You had your fun now move on to the life your planning without her.

Nothing wrong with looking for roses when you're aware of the thorns.

Hey guys, just saying hey to all you depressed sad people again. I was there not long ago, so I figure I'd remind you all that there is life after your relationship. My ex tried to come back several times (conveniently after I stopped giving a damn). I haven't responded to any of her calls, not even to be civil in the past 2 months, nor do I care to.

I'm dating a girl from the ukraine right now. She's like supermodel hot, and doesn't speak english well, so she doesn't like to talk so much(perfect). Anyway, I'll be answering a few questions in the next couple of days while I have off.

So does this Ukrainian super model who can't talk English or understand a word your saying make you happy? Or is it just a band aid because you really do give a damn about your ex and you don't want to deal with it alone??

Hey - Who cares, so long as he's happy... sometimes there is no need to look for the deeper meaning in life - sometimes it's enough if it just 'is'... if you know what I mean?