Right, I believe the words ex used were the Catholic church is "a CRIMINAL organization."

Right, I believe the words ex used were the Catholic church is "a CRIMINAL organization."

No I think he said it is an organisation used by criminals

I specifically remember the actual words Criminal organization used... on more than one occasion... but I think that might have been other threads.

Hello again,

What significant difference does it make what I called it? It's an organization RIFE with criminals, RIFE with enablers, and RIFE with people who kept it secret...

Now, I don't care WHAT you want to call it, but it should be DISBANDED and PROSECUTED.

excon

Hello again,

What significant difference does it make what I called it?? It's an organization RIFE with criminals, RIFE with enablers, and RIFE with people who kept it secret...

Now, I don't care WHAT you want to call it, but it should be DISBANDED and PROSECUTED.

excon

I think the same about the Democrat Party... you just described them perfectly.

Hello again, smoothy:

I don't know WHY you think child molesters are wonderful people... I don't know WHY you keep defending them.. You HATE Democrats, and you HATE illegal aliens, but you LOVE baby rapers...

I don't understand it. But, I'll NEVER understand right wing thinking.

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

I dunno WHY you think child molesters are wonderful people... I dunno WHY you keep defending them.. You HATE Democrats, and you HATE illegal aliens, but you LOVE baby rapers...

I don't understand it. But, I'll NEVER understand right wing thinking.

exconRemember Barney Frank... Know who Menendez is.. (the drive by media is in a near full coverup mode with him right now) .they are part of the democrat party.

I specifically remember the actual words Criminal organization used....on more than one occasion...but I think that might have been other threads.

Another case of someone being factually incorrect for whatever reason. The Catholic Church has undoubtedly harboured persons who are criminals and have committed criminal acts, this is misguided for whatever reason. For some reason, known only to themselves, the molesting of children doesn't register in their mind as a criminal act and those who have harbour criminals don't see themselves as criminal but by some stupid twist as trying to restore the individual and protect the reputation of the Church without realising it is impossible to do either. When you serve God he will ensure truth

another case of someone being factually incorrect for whatever reason. The Catholic Church has undoubtedly harboured persons who are criminals and have committed criminal acts, this is misguided for whatever reason. For some reason, known only to themselves, the molesting of children doesn't register in their mind as a criminal act and those who have harbour criminals don't see themselves as criminal but by some stupid twist as trying to restore the individual and protect the reputation of the Church without realising it is impossible to do either. When you serve God he will ensure truth

And right now the Democrat party and their cohorts in the Media are avoiding the very REAL topic of Democrat Senator Menendez and child prostitutes in the Dominican republic...

Robert Menendez Scandal Unfolds - NYTimes.com (http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/11/the-menendez-mess-continued/)

And its not the first Democrat caught in sex scandals.

Look deep enough and you are going to find something rotten in every segment of society... even in your own home country.

Smoothy look deep enough and you are likely to find politicians of any hue caught is sex scandals. The left aren't the only ones with such tendencies, just those stupid enough to get caught

Hello again, smoothy:

Your attempt at moral equivalence falls just as flat as the others did...

I ask you again, what is it about child molesters that you find so appealing? Why do you find the need to apologize for them?

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Your attempt at moral equivalence falls just as flat as the others did...

I ask you again, what is it about child molesters that you find so appealing? Why do you find the need to apologize for them?

exconMenendez was doing exactly what with Children in the Dominican Republic... and HE hasn't been thrown under the bus yet... and its CURRENT. THey covered for Barney Frank stretching the sphincter of an underage male intern for a very long time.

When the Dems clean up their own house first... then we can talk...

The only problem smoothy is the left celebrates their perverts.

The right puts their pervert on a pedestal and worships them as godly. If they are rich enough to payoff the victims, and stay out of jail.

Of course they are rich enough to hide their scandals.

The right puts their pervert on a pedestal and worships them as godly. If they are rich enough to payoff the victims, and stay out of jail.

Of course they are rich enough to hide their scandals.

The liberals call theirs Mr. President. Congressman or Senator.

the liberals call theirs mr. President., congressman or senator.

Bam !

So you guys think Obama is a pervert?

So you guys think Obama is a pervert?

I believe the reference is to Clinton.

He was referring to all liberal presidents, congressmen or senators.




The liberals call theirs Mr. President., Congressman or Senator.

He was referring to all liberal presidents, congressmen or senators.

No, he wasn't Mr Grammar guy. There was no number stated or inferred let alone all inclusive. The reference is to status and position, not quantity.

So you think Clinton is a pervert then?

Yes and a rapist;and so is Menendez

So Clinton is a rapist too now? Interesting.

What is your criteria for someone to get the "pervert" and "rapist" labels?

Mine is to be a pervert and a rapist.

Oh I don't know... a pattern of abusing women including Paula Jones, Kathleen Wiley ,Gennifer Flowers , Juanita Broaddrick (who he raped ) ,Monica Lewinsky... and probably other unnamed women he's raped abuse or taken advantage of .

Edit.. Eileen Wellstone... I knew I forgot one rape victim.

Juanita Broaddrick - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Broaddrick)

Doesn't look like rape to an awful lot of people including people are are smarter than you.

Also:

The Clinton White House released details of 15 letters and 12 telephone messages that Willey had sent to Clinton after the alleged incident. In all of these, she appeared friendly and eager for more contact with Clinton.

Mine is to be a pervert and a rapist.LOL, you'd make a terrible lawyer.

Juanita Broaddrick - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Broaddrick)

Doesn't look like rape to an awful lot of people including people are are smarter than you.

Also:

Yeah all the women are lying .

Or maybe it's Clinton who's the liar
Mr. Clinton's Disbarment Case - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2000/05/25/opinion/mr-clinton-s-disbarment-case.html)

Guess it depends on what the meaning of the word "is " is.

LOL, you'd make a terrible lawyer.

Wasn't trying to be, Mr Grammar King.

or maybe it's Clinton who's the liar
Mr. Clinton's Disbarment Case - NYTimes.comHmmm... 12 years ago... I think he survived that.

Mr Grammar KingI'm not ashamed of my good (and continuing) education. :D

yeah all the women are lying .

Yeah I don't know why they hate women so much. I certainly wouldn't trust my daughter or wife with Clinton, he's a MONSTER.

Hmmm....12 years ago...I think he survived that.

You forget the Perjury part... he's still convicted of that... but I suspect Owebama is going to give him a pardon on that yet.

If any of US was convicted of that we would have gone to jail... but Democraps are apparently above the law and better than the rest of us... or so they think.

I certainly wouldn't trust my daughter or wife with Clinton, he's a MONSTER.Well I wouldn't trust my wife or daughter with any of you guys either.
Who would you trust your wife and daughter to be with?

Owebama... DemocrapsHeh, wasn't aware I was dealing with a 10 year old.

Well I wouldn't trust my wife or daughter with any of you guys either.
Who would you trust your wife and daughter to be with?

Obviously the sarcasm went right over your head.

Ah yes, that's always the answer - sarcasm.

Only when appropriate.

Hello again, smoothy:


You forget the Perjury part... he's still convicted of that... Nahhh, let's for get it.. He was impeached in the House for lying and wasn't tried in the Senate.. He was NEVER convicted in a court of law.

Facts matter.

Excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Nahhh, let's for get it.. He was impeached in the House for lying and wasn't tried in the Senate.. He was NEVER convicted in a court of law.

Facts matter.

excon

No he admitted he was a liar, surrendered his law license and paid a fine in exchange for dropping the probe.

No he admitted he was a liar, surrendered his law license and paid a fine in exchange for dropping the probe.

He pled Nolo Contendere... basicly plead guilty... and as we all know... a guilty plea is the same as a conviction legally.

Yep, those Dems are still waging their war on women. Rep Joe Salazar wants women to know they don't really know if they're about to be raped so they don't need a gun, they just need a whistle.

Colorado state Rep. Joe Salazar's comments on rape and guns draw backlash - Washington Times (http://m.washingtontimes.com/blog/inside-politics/2013/feb/19/colorado-state-rep-joe-salazars-comments-rape-and-/)

Hello again, Steve:

I don't know... In MY view, suggesting that a woman NOT carry a gun, is NOT a war upon them... Certainly, when you consider that the Sandyhook shooter KILLED his mother with her own gun that she bought, apparently, because she believed right wing clap trap..

excon

Dumb comment for sure but the issue was over having guns on campus.


during a floor debate Friday night on a bill to ban concealed-carry permit holders from bringing guns on public university campuses.

Republicans opposing the bill argued that it would leave women defenseless against attackers, but Mr. Salazar said that wasn't the case.

Hello again, Steve:

I dunno... In MY view, suggesting that a woman NOT carry a gun, is NOT a war upon them... Certainly, when you consider that the Sandyhook shooter KILLED his mother with her own gun that she bought, apparently, because she believed right wing clap trap..

excon

"That's why we have call boxes, that's why we have safe zones, that's why we have whistles, because you just don't know who you're going to be shooting at," Mr. Salazar said.
...

"And you don't know, if you feel like you're going to be raped, or if you feel like someone's been following you around, or if you feel like you're in trouble, and when you may actually not be, that you pop out that gun and you pop around that somebody," he said.

Republican state Rep. Polly Lawrence fired back by telling him call boxes and whistles weren't going to cut it. She later issued this tweet: "Rep. Salazar says women may not know when they're being raped.. . "

Maybe it's not "legitimate rape" and I'm sure all those rapists are going to see to it they only prey on women near call boxes, safe zones and refrain from shoving that whistle down her throat.

You can't squirrel your way out of this one after all the hoopla you've made about similar Republican comments, but I see you're trying.

She later issued this tweet: "Rep. Salazar says women may not know when they're being raped. ..."

That's as dumb as what the dem said and just as inacurate. His comment reflected acting in fear and being armed to do so. So you take a dumb statement and exaggerate it and make an even dumber statement. That's pretty dumb too.

Doesn't even rise to the of level legitimate rape comments, or making a female carry her rapist baby. You sure want it to though. Sorry its not even a legitimate FACT! The argument fails miserably because she twisted his words, into something totally different to bolter the position that the answer to being safe on campus is have a gun ready to go.

Right wing fearmongering to get guns legal on campus. Your right wing spin falls very flat.

Thats as dumb as what the dem said and just as inacurate. His comment reflected acting in fear and being armed to do so. So you take a dumb statement and exagerate it and make an even dumber statement. Thats pretty dumb too.

Doesn't even rise to the of level legitimate rape comments, or making a female carry her rapist baby. You sure want it to though. Sorry its not even a legitimate FACT! The argument fails miserably because she twisted his words, into something totally different to bolter the position that the answer to being safe on campus is have a gun ready to go.

Right wing fearmongering to get guns legal on campus. Your right wing spin falls very flat.

Oh, so you don't like it when the tables are turned, eh? If you guys are going to destroy a man for understandably feeling like his daughter was violated if some punk got her pregnant, I'm not going give a rip about your whining when we point out the idiotic things your guys say.

Oh, so you don't like it when the tables are turned, eh? If you guys are going to destroy a man for understandably feeling like his daughter was violated if some punk got her pregnant, I'm not going give a rip about your whining when we point out the idiotic things your guys say.

You haven't turned the tables, you are trying to get revenge because we jumped on the dumb stuff you say that we don't like. And you have never given a rip about anything we say in the first place.

And as for an angry dad whose daughter had sex, against his wishes they're both punks. Been there, done that.

feeling like his daughter was violated if some punk got her pregnant
Uh, his daughter had consensual sex with the guy


At least he's not this guy?
Eric Bodenweiser, Former Delaware State Senate Candidate, Indicted On Sexual Abuse Charges (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/23/eric-bodenweiser-delaware-arrest_n_2006545.html)

Who is celebrated by the right:

O'Donnell praised Bodenweiser as a “great man that deserves our support and that we need to send to Dover. Eric has the kind of character that will stand up against corruption, that will do what is right in the face of opposition, in the face of pressure.”

You haven't turned the tables, you are trying to get revenge because we jumped on the dumb stuff you say that we don't like. And you have never given a rip about anything we say in the first place.

Why so sensitive today?


And as for an angry dad whose daughter had sex, against his wishes they're both punks. Been there, done that.

Ditto

Uh, his daughter had consensual sex with the guy:

How do you know it was consensual? How do you know he didn't pressure her into it? And regardless, I wouldn't give a rip if it was consensual I would still feel like my daughter was violated. But I guess you wouldn't care if dudes slept around with your kid?



At least he's not this guy?
Eric Bodenweiser, Former Delaware State Senate Candidate, Indicted On Sexual Abuse Charges (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/23/eric-bodenweiser-delaware-arrest_n_2006545.html)

Who is celebrated by the right

Wrong tense. Unlike libs we don't celebrate them after they're outed as a perv.

But I guess you wouldn't care if dudes slept around with your kid.Troll fail. LOL!

How puerile of you.

manufactured false premises deserve to be dismissed that was said by you!

It was actually a question, genius.

Why so sensitive today?

The University of Colorado has some suggestions (http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/340960/university-colorados-advice-how-avoid-being-raped-charles-c-w-cooke) for women on how to protect themselves from being raped, since you can't have a gun...


Be realistic about your ability to protect yourself.

Your instinct may be to scream, go ahead! It may startle your attacker and give you an opportunity to run away.

Kick off your shoes if you have time and can’t run in them.

Don’t take time to look back; just get away.

If your life is in danger, passive resistance may be your best defense.

Tell your attacker that you have a disease or are menstruating.

Vomiting or urinating may also convince the attacker to leave you alone.

Yelling, hitting or biting may give you a chance to escape, do it!

Understand that some actions on your part might lead to more harm.

Remember, every emergency situation is different. Only you can decide which action is most appropriate.

If "passive resistance" doesn't work or you can't pee or vomit on cue you may be out of luck.

Or

Travel in groups.

Don't go where there may be danger.

Tell the attacker, "OMG! I know your mother!!!"

Having a gun protects you from all evils.

Hello again,

Hmmmm... (http://www.tfn.org/site/PageNavigator/issues_religious_freedom_2013poll.html) Texas has one of the highest if not the highest teen birth rate in the country. Meanwhile, Republicans in the state continue to limit access to not just birth control but to cancer pregnancy and STD testing as well as other types of care women and infants require.

How does that make sense?

604 registered voters!! Wow now that's comprehensive ! I wonder how many Repubics have lost elections in Texas by taking the wrong side on the birth control debate. You would think that they'd be losing a lot of elections.

Interesting little sampling, and spin. Did you notice that over half of these 604 women haven't heard anything about the issue lately, yet 53 percent had a more favorable view of crisis pregnancy centers? Or that only 36 percent of these thought it "extremely important" that women have access to birth control regardless of their income? Or that exactly half don't see access in Texas as threatened?

What I find more interesting is in all this spin about funding women's "health care" which largely means Planned Parenthood (which I believe is whose funding was cut off in Texas, not mentioned the poll), is they make a killing off abortions but don't do mammograms (http://factcheck.org/2012/10/planned-parenthood-and-mammograms/) like Zero claimed.

Here is the actual quote from Obama:

“When Governor Romney says that we should eliminate funding for Planned Parenthood, there are millions of women all across the country who rely on Planned Parenthood for not just contraceptive care. They rely on it for mammograms, for cervical cancer screenings.”

Here is what that organization does:

Women can't walk into a Planned Parenthood clinic and get a mammogram on the spot. The clinics don't have mammography equipment. Planned Parenthood performs gynecological exams, including breast exams, and refers women to other facilities to have mammograms performed, much like women are referred to radiological centers by their gynecologists or primary care physicians.

In addition to mammogram referrals, the group says it helps low-income patients find grants and assistance to pay for mammograms, such as through the National Breast and Cervical Cancer Early Detection Program, which is for women at or below 250 percent of the federal poverty level. Planned Parenthood of Western Pennsylvania also has a Breast Health Care Fund, which helps patients obtain mammograms. Individual clinics also may occasionally sponsor no-cost mammogram events — for instance, on Oct. 19, Planned Parenthood of Nassau County, N.Y. plans to sponsor free mammograms at a mammography van at the health center. In south-central New York, a state program parks its mobile van outside two Planned Parenthood clinics.

Nucatola said that “for many women,” Planned Parenthood is their only health care provider and “thus the only way they will get a referral for a mammogram.”

I guess you thought they have mammogram equipment in every PP office? That would be prohibitively expensive.

Here is the actual quote from Obama:


Here is what that organization does:


I guess you thought they have mammogram equipment in every PP office? That would be prohibitively expensive.

Obviously you don't grasp the concept of the president deliberately misleading women. But then, why would I expect anyone to see the irony of all those liberal men running around telling women what's best for them or how to protect themselves?

Rape? What rape? Women aren't getting raped on college campuses (http://www.mediaite.com/tv/fox-liberal-hosts-shocking-question-when-was-the-last-time-you-heard-about-a-rape-on-campus/) and anyway, they can hit 'em over the head with their whistle!

president deliberately misleading womenBut he isn't at all. They can get a referral from PP. Why do you think his statement is misleading?

What part of "rely on" do you not get?

How else would they get the referral?


“for many women,” Planned Parenthood is their only health care provider and “thus the only way they will get a referral for a mammogram.”

Oh the drama, access to referrals is not an issue either. Even in the Texas Panhandle they come to you (http://amarillo.com/news/local-news/2010-11-06/cancer-center-unveils-bus). Planned Parenthood not needed!

Great idea, you just have to wait until it comes to your area. One is all they have? They may need a lot more. Wonder if you need insurance or is it free? Don't bother I already know they bill your insurance first, but they do take Medicaid. No insurance, no money, no treatment. Yes I called them and awaiting their alternative funding plans.

Not saying its not a great idea, just checking the facts before I get on board that this is a reasonable alternative to PP for poor females with no money or Medicaid, or the working poor who have no insurance period. The Texas Governor has already said no to Medicaid expansion so we will see.

And PP doesn't bill insurance or refer them to people who do? By the way, the Harrington Cancer Center has treated my daughter without charge to her so I'm quite familiar with them.

Without charge or out of pocket expenses? Big difference. Not picking a fight just a need for clarity, as we have MANY cancer survivors in my family, and the biggest factor was early detection. But some of the younger generations don't have the benefits of employer based insurance, nor access to programs to help them get to see a doctor.

That's why I ask and question, because I need to know. Specifically did Harris refer her to a program or did she have medicaid?

Specifically, a doc at a large, pay clinic took my daughter in for care with no insurance or Medicaid and through his network got her the best care available, gratis - including the cancer center. She had no insurance, no income and no Medicaid. Eventually she got care through district clinic (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/war-women-662145-133.html) when her health stabilized.

Planned Parenthood and the benevolent libs in California damn near let her die, which is why I bristle at the mention of PP and their "health care."

Hello again,


Britain’s most senior Roman Catholic cleric, Cardinal Keith O’Brien, has been accused (http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/25/world/europe/cardinal-keith-obrien-accused-of-inappropriate-acts.html?nl=todaysheadlines&emc=edit_th_20130225) of committing “inappropriate acts” in his relations with three priests and one former priest, the newspaper The Observer reported Sunday. The accusations, which date back to the 1980s, have been forwarded to the Vatican. If it was ME, I wouldn't be citing the needs of THIS criminal organization as a reason why we should do ANYTHING! In fact, the MORE they protest it, the MORE we should DO it.

Look, speaking as a fellow criminal, I don't mind smoking a joint or two, but I draw the line at f**king children.

Excon

There are potentially criminals in every organization . NYC school system has scores of predator teachers they keep in rubber rooms because union rules won't allow them to be canned .
You freqently see stories of teacher -under age student relationships . Does that mean the teacher's unions issues are not legit ?
So next time I hear teachers issues brought up by the unions I'll say "If it was ME, I wouldn't be citing the needs of THIS criminal organization as a reason why we should do ANYTHING!"

NYC school system has scores of predator teachers they keep in rubber rooms because union rules won't allow them to be canned . Proof of that would be interesting.

Hello again,

If it was ME, I wouldn't be citing the needs of THIS criminal organization as a reason why we should do ANYTHING! In fact, the MORE they protest it, the MORE we should DO it.

Look, speaking as a fellow criminal, I don't mind smoking a joint or two, but I draw the line at f**king children.

excon

As if we don't?

Hello again, tom:

So, you can't tell the difference between isolated instances of crime, and an ORGANIZATION that PROMOTES it, and then COVERS IT UP.

How can you call yourself a respectable right winger?

excon

Troubled city teachers still bouncing around the supposedly shutdown 'rubber rooms' as city wastes $22 million a year - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/education/city-schools-rubber-rooms-bounce-back-article-1.1184406)

Hello again, tom:

So, you can't tell the difference between isolated instances of crime, and an ORGANIZATION that PROMOTES it, and then COVERS IT UP.

How can you call yourself a respectable right winger?

excon

Show me where the Catholic church promotes predatory practices from the priests.

Troubled city teachers still bouncing around the supposedly shutdown 'rubber rooms' as city wastes $22 million a year - NY Daily NewsThanks Tom and you are correct - that's absolutely terrible.

Hello again, tom:

You must BE a Catholic...

Look.. When CRIMES occur under one's watch, and one COVERS IT UP, and DOESN'T prosecute it to the fullest extent of the law, one is PROMOTING that behavior...

excon

You are right Ex they keep covering up and hiding crime because they think they are above the law

Hello again, tom:


NYC school system has scores of predator teachers they keep in rubber rooms because union rules won't allow them to be canned . You're not saying, are you, that the NYC school system is PROTECTING child f**kers, like the Catholic church is protecting child f**king priests??

I think you ARE. Now, I'm sure you're Catholic.

Excon

Hello again, tom:

You're not saying, are you, that the NYC school system is PROTECTING child f**kers, like the Catholic church is protecting child f**king priests???

I think you ARE. Now, I'm sure you're Catholic.

excon

No ,I said the teacher unions are .

no ,I said the teacher unions are .

The outrage suddenly got quiet since the union us involved in protecting perverts. I'm sure those racist conservatives are to blame for it, just as they are for Menendez banging underage girls.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/24/bob-menendez-plays-race-card-blames-conservatives-for-scandals/

Yup ,the institution known as the Senate Democrats will circle the wagons.

Hello again, Steve:

I got quite cause I had to go to work.. Show me a link where the unions are protecting child molesters... Just one will do.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

I got quite cause I had to go to work.. Show me a link where the unions are protecting child molesters... Just one will do.

excon

I'm not tom, he's the guy In NY.

Campbell Brown: Teachers Unions Go to Bat for Sexual Predators - WSJ.com (http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB10000872396390443437504577547313612049308-lMyQjAxMTAyMDMwMDAzODA3Wj.html)

Union rules protect bad NYC teachers—Editorial - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/editorials/teacher_protection_racket_wqMxiho2IAGswg0XB3ZYoI)
7 Child Predators Protected by American Teachers Unions | NewsReal Blog (http://www.newsrealblog.com/2011/03/08/7-child-predators-protected-by-american-teachers-unions/)

What's this? Paedophiles who aren't in the catholic church? The curse is spreading When will society decide enough is enough and take these predators on Zero tolerance policy is needed.

What's this? paedophiles who arn't in the catholic church? the curse is spreading When will society decide enough is enough and take these predators on Zero tolerence policy is needed.

Zero tolerance doesn't apply when its members of the teachers union breaking the laws.

Zero tolerance doesn't apply when its members of the teachers union breaking the laws.


Care to expand on that? What laws are the teachers breaking by participating in the arbitration process?

Tut

Care to expand on that? What laws are the teachers breaking by participating in the arbitration process?

Tut

Tut you haven't been following the debate the Union is protecting abusive teachers you know what it is like over there it is like the ACLU, protect the abusers

Tut you haven't been following the debate the Union is protecting abusive teachers you know what it is like over there it is like the ACLU, protect the abusers

Yes, they are protecting abusive teachers. No they are not breaking the law. This distinction will always come about because of the difference between Civil Law and Criminal Law ( speaking as a non-qualified legal person that is).

Most of the complains against teachers appear to be handled through an arbitration process. Arbitration is a convenient way of dealing with cases of abuse that otherwise would be too hard, too expensive and to costly to deal with under Criminal Law. And more than likely don't warrant criminal proceedings

Arbitration is legally binding but it doesn't necessarily exclude other avenues of legal action. Your Constitution guarantees a number of protection for 'law abiding citizens', but the other side of the coins means that criminal defendants also have the same protection. You cannot complain that your rights are being taken away, while at the same time showing an eagerness to take away the rights of someone accused of wrong doing. But I digress.

Litigation is used is used in the area of criminal activity while arbitration is used in the area of Civil matters. In other words, activity that is deemed less than criminal is handled with under Civil law. It seems to be a matter that is consider negotiable between the individual and the organization.

The answer is of course to change the process where by the union gets to have the greatest influence when it comes to picking an arbitrator. The answer is is to toughen up the penalties that are handed out by the arbitrators. The answer is for the state to implement criminal proceeding against teachers who partake in criminal activity.

What we have here is the usual beat-up on unions. What we have here is the usual web-site journalism whereby some journalists justify their salary and the loyalty to the boss by surfing the web for a story and then sensationalizing it as much as possible.

Tom, I am prepared to discuss The Wall Street Journal Article, but not the other nonsense you posted.

Hi tut I think we have come to the point where those who commit a crime forfeit their rights

Whether they are teachers, priests or anyone else, any person of trust who violates a trust should immediately forfeit their rights. The law is an if it protects such people. Now I know what this means is that certain people cannot be allowed to hold a position of trust, but that's the way it is. Users and abusers have to go, pushed out of positions of trust, because such people cannot be reformed

Hello again, tom:

I'm sorry.. I just don't believe that NYC cops are doing NOTHING if child rape was happening... I just don't believe it... They stop and FRISK black people, but let MOLESTERS ride??

Nahhh.. I don't believe it..

excon

hi tut i think we have come to the point where those who commit a crime forfiet their rights

Whether they are teachers, priests or anyone else, any person of trust who violates a trust should immediately forfiet their rights. the law is an if it protects such people. Now I know what this means is that certain people cannot be allowed to hold a position of trust, but that's the way it is. Users and abusers have to go, pushed out of positions of trust, because such peopel cannot be reformed

Probably correct. However, I think my above post #1345 goes some of the way when it comes to answering why such problems exist.

I guess the law is a bureaucratic organization, just like any other major organization. They all attempt to maximize their outcomes.

The issues are complex enough with the need for sensationalist and misleading information by the media.

Hello again, tom:

I'm sorry.. I just don't believe that NYC cops are doing NOTHING if child rape was happening... I just don't believe it... They stop and FRISK black people, but let MOLESTERS ride????

Nahhh.. I don't believe it..

excon

Why would you not believe it in cases of teachers ,but believe cops did nothing about predatory priests ?

Why would you not believe it in cases of teachers ,but believe cops did nothing about predatory priests ?

Evidence, Tom, evidence, they have been protected and evidence hidden, this is why I say we have come to the point of zero tolerance. The biblical standard is it would be better that a mill stone be hung around their neck and they be cast into the sea. Apply the standard to all abusers, priests, teachers, etc, etc

Oh I agree ,and I am a member of a laity organization that is demanding accountability . But there is a clear double standard here where the practice of protecting predator teachers is not getting the same attention that the abuses of priests have been given.
I am just concentrating on NYC . You think this doesn't happen all over the country ? People here yuck it up and joke about cases of female teachers seducing under-age students. It is a problem . But in no way does it reflect on the whole profession any more than the few cases of priest abuse reflect on the priesthood.

Hello again, tom:


Why would you not believe it in cases of teachers ,but believe cops did nothing about predatory priests ?I DON'T believe cops did nothing... I believe the hierarchy of the CHURCH did nothing.. Show me where a priest was exposed, and the cops did NOTHING...

Secondarily, clearly you ARE a Catholic... You make EXCUSES for them. Don't you realize that it's people like YOU who allow the criminals to continue to RAPE children?

Excon

I'm making NO excuses for them .see my 1st sentence above. I'm all for accountablity . What I'm not for is the broad brush painting you are doing ;and using that as a pretext for violating their consitututional rights.

I think it's a sad state of affairs that equates unions having a process to handle complaints to what cardinals, priests, and bishops have been caught doing for decades. Then you holler about civil rights? Yeah victims have rights too, and when evidence in a civil hearing is passed to authorities we get charges, or dismissals.

Unlike a clergy deciding behind closed doors to handle their crimes internally. Mudding the waters with innuendo and silly comparisons is just not a cool way to say "everybody does it", so its okay.

Hello again, Tom:


What I'm not for is the broad brush painting you are doingOrdinarily, I'm NOT a broad brush painter.. I do NOT believe an organization is responsible for the crimes of its members...

UNLESS that organization has SHOWN me that it would rather COVER up the crimes instead of PROSECUTING them... And that's exactly what the Catholic church did, and is doing to this very day.

Excon

Hello again, Tom:

Ordinarily, I'm NOT a broad brush painter.. I do NOT believe an organization is responsible for the crimes of its members....

UNLESS that organization has SHOWN me that it would rather COVER up the crimes instead of PROSECUTING them... And that's exactly what the Catholic church did, and is doing to this very day.

excon

Sounds exactly like the Democrat party to me...

When you righties run out of facts and reasonable arguments you always come with name calling and rock throwing, and blame everyone else for starting crap.

When you righties run out of facts and reasonable arguments you always come with name calling and rock throwing, and blame everyone else for starting crap.

Gee... talk about short memories...


Dems still have their Panties in a knot over Watergate where nobody died... and try to argue BenghaziGate despite ample evidence... and 4 people died... is a non-issue.

Dems did nothing but bash.. and defame Bush and everyone in his cabinet during the campaigns AND his two terms... right up to fabricating evidence to blame on him... AKA RatherGate where CBS tossed Dan Rather under the bus to deflect their own part in the event.

Hello again, smoothy:

Hold on, podner.. I can see smoke coming out your ears.

excon

When you righties run out of facts and reasonable arguments you always come with name calling and rock throwing, and blame everyone else for starting crap.

Like Menendez?


At a Black History Month event held at a Trenton, N.J. church on Sunday, Democratic Senator Bob Menendez blamed conservatives for his ethics scandals, framing them as a racial attack on him because of his Hispanic heritage. “I have felt the sting of discrimination,” he told approximately 300 worshipers, according to the Bergen Record. ”It has never been easy.”

“Now we face anonymous, faceless, nameless individuals from right-wing sources seeking to destroy a lifetime of work,” Menendez said at Shiloh Baptist Church.

“And their smears are false. I have worked too hard and too long in the vineyards, too long with my hands, for the harvest to be soured.”

Read more: Bob Menendez plays race card, blames conservatives for scandals | The Daily Caller (http://dailycaller.com/2013/02/24/bob-menendez-plays-race-card-blames-conservatives-for-scandals/#ixzz2M1DPFxLp)


Damn those racist conservatives for flying him to the Dominican Republic with donor cash and forcing those 16 year old prostitutes on him.

Hello again, smoothy:

Hold on, podner.. I can see smoke coming out your ears.

excon

I must have hit the nail right on the head since you couldn't come back with something better than that.

Like Menendez?



The Daily Caller article offers no evidence that Menendez is playing the race card, even though this is claimed in the headline and elsewhere. I realize the article says this is what he is doing, but the quotes by Menendez himself makes no such claim. What is going on here?


Tut

Hello Tut:


What is going on here?The Daily Caller is run by one of the most right wing pundits in the known universe. But, that probably didn't have anything to do with it...

Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

Excon

North Jersey.com is the home of the Newark Star Ledger and other left leaning publications in the NY /NJ region. This is the link the Daily Caller used... Menendez clearly played the race card .

Menendez, at Trenton church, says he has shared 'sting of discrimination' - NorthJersey.com (http://www.northjersey.com/community/community_events/Menendez_at_Trenton_church_says_he_has_shared_stin g_of_discrimination.html)

Stop blaming the wingers for taking sensational headlines and right wing bloggers as factual. They have a right believe whatever crap they want to!!

The headline in the North Jersey .com

Menendez, at Trenton church, says he has shared 'sting of discrimination'

The text :

The Democrat from Hudson County blamed his current troubles, which include questions about his relationship with a contributor and the possibility of a Senate Ethics Committee investigation, on right-wing bloggers.

Speaking to a crowd of roughly 300 people who gathered at The Shiloh Baptist Church for a Black History Month celebration, Menendez appeared to surprise his own staff by using the venue to offer a spirited defense to questions that have dogged him for weeks. Before the speech, aides suggested that any questions about the issues would be cut off.

"I have felt the sting of discrimination,” he said, to cheers from the crowd, which included many members of the state Legislature and U.S. Rep. Donald M. Payne Jr. D-Essex. “It has never been easy.”

“Now we face anonymous, faceless, nameless individuals … seeking to destroy a lifetime of work,” he said. “In the end, I believe that justice will overcome the forces of darkness.”


So yes ,he is playing the race card ,blaming right wing bloggers for his problems resulting from his criminal and unethical behavior .

The headline in the North Jersey .com


the text :


So yes ,he is playing the race card ,blaming right wing bloggers for his problems resulting from his criminal and unethical behavior .


Absolute nonsense Tom.

The North Jersey article is accurate. It only ever mentions discrimination. There is no mention of racial discrimination in the so called left wing article. Compare this with the Daily Caller and you will see what I mean.

Tut

Stop blaming the wingers for taking sensational headlines and right wing bloggers as factual. They have a right believe whatever crap they want to!!!!!!!!

As opposed to the obvious leftist propaganda you defend?

Removed

Absolute nonsense Tom.

The North Jersey article is accurate. It only ever mentions discrimination. There is no mention of racial discrimination in the so called left wing article. Compare this with the Daily Caller and you will see what I mean.

Tut

What type of discrimination do you think this Hispanic Senator is speaking to the largely black audience about ?

removed


No it doesn't. There are many different form of discrimination. Given his Hispanic background and given the fact there is no Hispanic race. The discrimination would be based on his ethnicity.

Hence the difference in the headlines.

Tut

A distinction without a difference . You are deluding yourself if you think the intent of Menendez's words were not to link his recent struggles to a racial issue .

a distinction without a difference . You are deluding yourself if you think the intent of Menendez's words were not to link his recent struggles to a racial issue .




Of course there is a big difference between racial aspects and ethnic aspects . I am not talking about the impact on the individuals because that is similar.

Would you like me to Google the difference between biology and sociology for you?

Tut

No ;we can end this because you are nitpicking without being serious about the intent of Menendez' words .

no ;we can end this because you are nitpicking without being serious about the intent of Menendez' words .

I think the real issue with Menendez is where he was sticking his wiener... and in whom... (underage teen prostitutes in the Dominican Republic.

Sex tourism for the intent of playing with children in any other country is something that can be and has been pursued resulting in lengthy prison sentences.

Why should Menendez be given a break because he's Latino or a Democrat?

They should go after him with the same gusto they go after any other guy who have slept with underage girls.

Hello again, tom:

What should we call convicting somebody WITHOUT a trial, based on nothing more than rumor and innuendo?

excon

Hello again, tom:

What should we call convicting somebody WITHOUT a trial, based on nothing more than rumor and innuendo?

excon

Being a Democrat?

You guys did this with BOTH Bushes as well as Regan. Not to mention Cheney and Carl Rove... and a number of other Republicans.

Hello again, tom:

What should we call convicting somebody WITHOUT a trial, based on nothing more than rumor and innuendo?

excon

Really ? Is that the position you take with the Catholic church ?

Hello again, tom:

What should we call convicting somebody WITHOUT a trial, based on nothing more than rumor and innuendo?

excon

The "war on women"?

no ;we can end this because you are nitpicking without being serious about the intent of Menendez' words .

Tom, it's really very simple. Even if Menendez wanted to play the race card, he couldn't. Hispanism, as the name suggests is a cultural heritage. You can't play a card that doesn't exist. The card he is playing is the ethnic card because it is the only card in his cultural deck. He doesn't have a race card to play.

You know, Logic 101 and all of that.

New Jersey.com got it right. Daily Caller got it wrong. That's a distinction with a difference.

Sorry ,you are wrong... he was making that statement to an African American audience to specifically play the race card. But to end this ridiculous debate... let's call it the minority card and end it there .

sorry ,you are wrong ... he was making that statement to an African American audience to specifically play the race card. But to end this ridiculous debate ... let's call it the minority card and end it there .


Well, feel free to go through my above post and point out where I am wrong.

Prove that he went there to play the race card. And not his own ethnic card. Obviously you can't. You can no more prove that he went there for play the race card any more than I can prove that he went there to play the ethnic card.

It is not a trivial issue as you like to point out. It represents a difference between good journalism and sensationalist and misleading journalism.

No it represents your nit picking . Have a great day

There is nothing to nitpick, he was playing the race card and blaming his problems on conservatives.

From the race to card to a race baiting war on women, Progress Kentucky has launched an attack (http://wfpl.org/post/liberal-super-pac-goes-after-mitch-mcconnells-chinese-wife)on an honorable woman, former Bush admin Labor Secretary and wife of Mitch McConnell, Elaine Chao, in their effort to unseat McConnell.

Apparently Kentuckians don't know she's "Chinese", discriminated against American workers and shipped your job to China.

She was actually born in Taiwan and moved here when she was 8 years old and as I've pointed out before, was another first in Bush's diverse administration as the first female Asian-American appointed to a Cabinet position. But hey, we all know she can't be an authentic minority or female as a Republican, so she's fair game for such attacks, right?

Okay, I will see your race baiting argument, and raise it with my own race baiting argument.

Scalia's Racial Entitlement Argument Reveals Ugly Truths, But No Surprises (http://www.inquisitr.com/550704/scalias-racial-entitlement-argument-reveals-ugly-truths-but-no-surprises/)

Voting is a racial entitlement? What the hell is he talking about? Wingers on the right please explain?

While Rosa Parks was being honored, SCOTUS judge was talking this crap?

Rosa Parks didn't deserve the cult status she has... but then... look who is in the white house and have completely screwed up all the rest of his priorities are as well explains it all.

When is the :"Homie" Memorial coming? A Statue of a black man with his pants halfway to his knees honoring the inner city criminals that have fallen to the evil police and the Armed victims that took them down unfairly.

What do you expect from a man from a culture that praises welfare ho's for having 9 kids from 9 different fathers none of whom pay child support because Whitey owes them all a free ride for something that happened many generations ago.

Okay, I will see your race baiting argument, and raise it with my own race baiting argument.

Scalia’s Racial Entitlement Argument Reveals Ugly Truths, But No Surprises (http://www.inquisitr.com/550704/scalias-racial-entitlement-argument-reveals-ugly-truths-but-no-surprises/)

Voting is a racial entitlement? What the hell is he talking about? Wingers on the right please explain?

While Rosa Parks was being honored, SCOTUS judge was talking this crap?

Nice deflection from the fact that a liberal PAC is openly attacking a minority female. Funny how that never seems to bother your side when you do it.

As for Scalia, the offending quote:


“Now, I don’t think that’s attributable to the fact that it is so much clearer now that we need this. I think it is attributable, very likely attributable, to a phenomenon that is called perpetuation of racial entitlement. It’s been written about. Whenever a society adopts racial entitlements, it is very difficult to get out of them through the normal political processes.”

And in context:


The problem here, however, is suggested by the comment I made earlier, that the initial enactment of this legislation in a — in a time when the need for it was so much more abundantly clear was — in the Senate, there — it was double-digits against it. And that was only a 5-year term.

Then, it is reenacted 5 years later, again for a 5-year term. Double-digits against it in the Senate. Then it was reenacted for 7 years. Single digits against it. Then enacted for 25 years, 8 Senate votes against it. And this last enactment, not a single vote in the Senate against it. And the House is pretty much the same. Now, I don’t think that’s attributable to the fact that it is so much clearer now that we need this. I think it is attributable, very likely attributable, to a phenomenon that is called perpetuation of racial entitlement. It’s been written about. Whenever a society adopts racial entitlements, it is very difficult to get out of them through the normal political processes.

I don’t think there is anything to be gained by any Senator to vote against continuation of this act. And I am fairly confident it will be reenacted in perpetuity unless — unless a court can say it does not comport with the Constitution. You have to show, when you are treating different States differently, that there’s a good reason for it.


Apparently you guys on the left are just unwilling to consider the hard questions, one of which is when does guaranteeing nondiscrimination become preferential treatment? If we can't even discuss such things how the hell do we ever get come to an agreement?

When is the justice Dept going to investigate over 100% turn out in some inner city districts ?

Sec 5 of the Voting Rights Act is the preclearance requirement that targets specific states for past discrimination . What Scalia was saying was that perhaps over time reality has changed in these states .
But it is less likely that the law will be changed in Congress because there is no advantage for a Senator to vote against the provision ,even when preclearance for the state is no longer warranted .
As Justice Alito said ;"There is no question that the Voting Rights Act has done enormous good. It's one of the most successful statutes that Congress passed in the twentieth century," But, he said, Congress may have failed to demonstrate that preclearance remains justifiable today—or that only some states should be selected for special scrutiny.

2009 SCOTUS gave Congress the chance to revisit this provision . They chose not to . The American population is far more mobile than it was in 1965 . Every section of the country ,especially the South has seen tremendous demographic shifts . Amending Sec 5 would not void the rest of the Voting Rights Act . It is something that needs a more serious scrutiny than a rubber stamp vote by Congress because that's the safe vote.

There is nothing to nitpick, he was playing the race card and blaming his problems on conservatives.


Demonstrate by way of evidence that he was playing the race card. You can no more demonstrate this than I can demonstrate he was playing the ethnic card.

Tut

One doesn't stand in front of a black crowd at a Black History Month celebration , evoke the words and memory of Martin Luther King and play the "ethinic" card. He was clearly playing the race card.

Bedeviled Menendez confronts accusations with words of Martin Luther King | NJ.com (http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/02/bedeviled_menendez_confronts_a.html)

And speaking of the war on Women (http://politicalwire.com/archives/2013/03/01/lawmaker_makes_lewd_remark_to_teenage_girl.html).. .


Connecticut state Rep. Ernest Hewett (D) made an inappropriate remark to a 17 year old girl testifying about a program that helped her overcome her shyness and get over her fear of snakes, the New London Day reports.

Said the girl: "I am usually a very shy person, and now I am more outgoing. I was able to teach those children about certain things like snakes that we have and the turtles that we have... I want to do something toward that, working with children when I get older."

According to an audiotape of the hearing, Hewett replied: "If you're bashful I got a snake sitting under my desk here."

He, uh says he meant to say something else...


Hewett said his remark came out wrong and he understood how it could be misconstrued. According to The Day of New London, he said Thursday: “What I meant to say was, if you are shy then I have an acre of land in the Everglades.”

I can see how that could be misconstrued...

At least he likes women unlike many of the republican/christian types who wander. :D

At least he likes women unlike many of the republican/christian types who wander. :D

Cute, but I understand, Democrat perverts get a pass.

From you maybe.

At least he likes women unlike many of the republican/christian types who wander. :D
Like


Barney Frank of Massachusetts,
Tammy Baldwin of Wisconsin
Jared Polis of Colorado.
Mr. David Cicilline of Rhode Island;
Mr. Takano of California;
Sean Patrick Maloney of New York;
Kyrsten Sinema of Arizona, who is bisexual
Mark Pocan of Wisconsin.

Being gay is a bad thing?

Being gay is a bad thing?

NK had to pull it out of their bum... I just pointed out some of the Democrats that are...

One doesn't stand in front of a black crowd at a Black History Month celebration , evoke the words and memory of Martin Luther King and play the "ethinic" card. He was clearly playing the race card.

Bedeviled Menendez confronts accusations with words of Martin Luther King | NJ.com (http://www.nj.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/02/bedeviled_menendez_confronts_a.html)


Of course one does. A person with an ethnic background who knows the difference between biology and sociology chooses their words carefully. This is why he doesn't mention any type of racial discrimination. He only talks about discrimination and the affinity he shares with his audience when it comes to discrimination. Menendez knows that when one talks about ethnic discrimination it is very similar to racial discrimination in terms of outcomes.

When you find the quote whereby Menendez claims he knows what it is like to be racially discriminated against, then you have your evidence. Until then the media opinion is just that- an opinion. It is an opinion in exactly the same way as my claim that Menendez know the difference between biology and sociology is an opinion
.

Bottom line... Menendez is a lying, crooked ,statutory rapist. He was playing the RACE card trying to deflect criticism of his behavior... not because of his carefully crafted wording ,but because of the audience he was addressing them to. But you'll never admit it.

Tom, I thought you had given up on this one. I already know your opinion on this and you know my opinion. Perhaps you can make me admit I am wrong by providing some evidence that Menendez was playing the race card and not the ethnic card.

Honestly, if you can provide hard evidence I will admit that I am wrong.

Tut

Nice deflection from the fact that a liberal PAC is openly attacking a minority female. Funny how that never seems to bother your side when you do it.

As for Scalia, the offending quote:



And in context:



Apparently you guys on the left are just unwilling to consider the hard questions, one of which is when does guaranteeing nondiscrimination become preferential treatment? if we can't even discuss such things how the hell do we ever get come to an agreement?

Surely, you are not supporting a SCOTUS judge who is attempting to poison the judicial well. You rightly complain your Constitutional rights are being eroded, yet you seem to support a man who takes to the floor in order to try and bend public and judicial opinion by criticizing the Act in question.

Scalia says,'"...quote It's been written about. unquote"

I didn't realize that SCOTUS handed down its decisions based on opinions; popular or otherwise. If this type of thing happens on a larger scale then you will have a Constitutional ruling subject to popular opinion.

bottom line ... Menendez is a lying, crooked ,statutory rapist. He was playing the RACE card trying to deflect criticism of his behavior ...not because of his carefully crafted wording ,but because of the audience he was addressing them to. But you'll never admit it.

Ok, Tom you win. But keep in mind that I was never supporting his questionable behaviour. I was only supporting good journalism.

Tut

NK had to pull it out of their bumYou seem to mention things in bums an awful lot, not sure why.
Anyway I did not in any way refer to homosexual republicans/christians, I was referring to heterosexual ones who like to fondle young boys.

Sorry if my post was confusing.

Carry on.

From you maybe.

So you've gone to making even less sense than usual.

Surely, you are not supporting a SCOTUS judge who is attempting to poison the judicial well. You rightly complain your Constitutional rights are being eroded, yet you seem to support a man who takes to the floor in order to try and bend public and judicial opinion by criticizing the Act in question.

Scalia says,'"...quote It's been written about. unquote"

I didn't realize that SCOTUS handed down its decisions based on opinions; popular or otherwise. If this type of thing happens on a larger scale then you will have a Constitutional ruling subject to popular opinion.

Geez Tut, it was a normal part of oral arguments at SCOTUS. If anyone is poisoning the well it's the leftist blogosphere with their collective hissy fit over Scalia making a reasonable point... if you're going to treat some states differently you better have a good reason.

Writing laws that keep people from voting, exercising their constitutional rights is a good reason.

Supreme Court Hears Voting Rights Act Challenge Brought By Shelby County, Alabama (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/supreme-court-voting-rights-act-shelby-county_n_2769901.html)

Writing laws that keep people from voting, exercising their constitutional rights is a good reason.

Supreme Court Hears Voting Rights Act Challenge Brought By Shelby County, Alabama (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/supreme-court-voting-rights-act-shelby-county_n_2769901.html)

Keeping America shackled to a mindset that perpetuates racial tension and disregards the progress we've made is poisonous.

Progressives isn't very progressive. They craft legislations that are perhaps justifiable... and then decades later ,these polices are etched in stone unmovable despite the changing realities . They always accuse the right of making changes to programs "as we know it" ,as if that is always a bad thing .
Take a case in point . Mississippi is still on the Sec 5 list even though the state has more black elected officials than any other state in the union . In comparison ,Massachusetts has one of the worse . The disparity between black and white election participation has virtually disappeared in the covered states and is better than in many other parts of the country that are not covered by Section 5.

One would think that if Sec 5(which was meant to be a temporary remedy ) was even necessary in a time when the US has a 2 term African American President ,then the relevant question should be... why isn't sec 5 universally applied (equal protection under the law and all that )?

Hello again, Steve:

Keeping America shackled to a mindset that perpetuates racial tension and disregards the progress we've made is poisonous.
Seems to me it's the Voting Rights Act that is RESPONSIBLE for all the progress we've made. What?? You think it would have happened WITHOUT it? Why would you want to stop something that is WORKING?

There WILL be a time for its repeal.. That time ISN'T now.

Excon

Writing laws that keep people from voting, exercising their constitutional rights is a good reason.

Supreme Court Hears Voting Rights Act Challenge Brought By Shelby County, Alabama (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/supreme-court-voting-rights-act-shelby-county_n_2769901.html)

It clearly looks like the system is working the way it is suppose to do. That section of the law was never meant to be permanent. Also it does have an expiration date in it too.

Hello again, Steve:

Seems to me it's the Voting Rights Act that is RESPONSIBLE for all the progress we've made. What??? You think it would have happened WITHOUT it? Why would you want to stop something that is WORKING??

There WILL be a time for its repeal.. That time ISN'T now.

excon

For people who think they're progressive you sure do hate to embrace progress.

Hello dad:

To ME, 8 hour waits to vote indicate anything BUT that the system is working.

excon

I think laws such as this were designed to be reviewed, revised, or discontinued. And the congress has acted. Quiet as its keep, a state or district can apply through the process to be let out of this oversight. Alabama and Shelby county have not applied and chosen a lawsuit instead.

Hello again, Steve:


you sure do hate to embrace progress.

We've come a long way. But, we've not YET reached our destination.

Excon

I think laws such as this were designed to be reviewed, revised, or discontinued. And the congress has acted. Quiet as its keep, a state or district can apply thru the process to be let out of this oversight. Alabama and Shelby county have not applied and chosen a lawsuit instead.

What's good for the goose...

Hello again, Steve:



We've come a long way. But, we've not YET reached our destination.

excon

And we never will as long as you intentionally perpetuate racial tension. I don't believe for a minute the left wants to reach that destination, it's not in their political interest to have racial harmony. As I've said many times, we aren't the ones injecting race into every situation. We have embraced minorities, and like the incident with Elaine Chao (and any other conservative minority) your side attacks them as inauthentic or devious traitors.

Hello again,

So, you think WAITING in line for 8 hours to vote is EMBRACING minorities?? And, if I mention it, I'M the one who's injecting race??

Dude!!

excon

The gander in this case is the same guy who tried this in Texas, and lost.

Supreme Court Hears Voting Rights Act Challenge Brought By Shelby County, Alabama (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/supreme-court-voting-rights-act-shelby-county_n_2769901.html)


Both Shelby County and Alabama were the subject of a federal block on voting-related changes and named parties in a federal civil rights suit in 2008, when 180 of the state's counties and municipalities refused to alter their at-large election districts. The absence of distinct geographic districts –- which often cluster voters by both race and class –- made it virtually impossible for the state's growing black and Latino populations to ever win city-wide elections for seats on hundreds of county commissions and city councils, school boards and water districts, Haygood said.

“Shelby County was and is the very kind of place for which the Voting Rights Act was written,” he said. “So, it's pretty unbelievable that this case has come from this community.”


In 2008, Gray was involved in the suit against 180 Alabama counties. Last year, the problem came even closer to home. Gray, a long-time active voter, discovered that a new county election official had removed his name and about 500 others from the voter rolls in Evergreen, Ala. the small 4,000-person town and boyhood home to which Gray retired. The most recent census found that the city is 63 percent black, but the majority of the city council's seats are held by white politicians who live in largely white sections of town.

“Listen, it's plain to see that when Shelby County decided to take up this fight, they didn't ask anybody who would be in a position to know if there are still real problems,” he said.

When the Justice Department became aware of Evergreen's changed voter rolls and new district lines, which the city council had also failed to submit for approval, it used Section Five to stop the town's planned August 2012 county elections. Federal officials asked the town for more information.

Elections have not been held.

And we never will as long as you intentionally perpetuate racial tension. I don't believe for a minute the left wants to reach that destination, it's not in their political interest to have racial harmony. As I've said many times, we aren't the ones injecting race into every situation. We have embraced minorities, and like the incident with Elaine Chao (and any other conservative minority) your side attacks them as inauthentic or devious traitors.

Also from the previous link,


When the Voting Rights Act was passed in 1965, many of the voters who were plainly excluded and faced danger if they tried to vote were African-American. A smaller number were Mexican Americans living in Southwestern states. Today, the country's population is changing, and so too are the tactics used to limit the influence of minority voters, Barreto said.

Just last year, the Mexican American Legal Defense Fund (MALDEF) won a legal dispute with the state of Texas over proposed election districts. Texas won four new Congressional seats, almost entirely due to growth in its Latino population. State officials working to draw new district lines complied with the letter of the Voting Rights Act by creating new districts, including at least one where Latinos would make up the majority of voters and therefore stand a better chance of being able to elect and send their candidate of choice to Congress. But, in a series of emails between state staff working to draw new district lines, it became clear that the new districts were actually designed to violate the spirit of the Voting Rights Act.

State officials drew a new “minority majority” district in such a way that voters with Spanish surnames who do not often vote were concentrated in one district and those with Spanish surnames who have a record of voting frequently were pushed into predominantly white and Republican voting zones.
Section Five and other sections of the Voting Rights Act helped federal officials and MALDEF to halt the plan.

And that's your example of embracing minorities? Seems to me if latino populations led to Texas gaining 4 new representatives in the congress then shouldn't they have a chance for 4 latino reps?

Of course diluting their voting power keeps you guys in power. I really think minorities want you to stop embracing them.

It's a bunch of lip service.

Hello again,

So, you think WAITING in line for 8 hours to vote is EMBRACING minorities??? And, if I mention it, I'M the one who's injecting race???

Dude!!!

excon

Dude, we don't wait in line ten minutes so I have no idea what anyone else's problem is. I see it as possibly incompetence, not placing obstacles in the path of minorities. I see voter ID as protecting legitimate votes, not disenfranchising blacks. So yeah, you are injecting race, not me.

Here is what happened with the 8 hr incident . This was not on election day. This happened at a early polling place in Florida; on the 1st day of early voting . Now as you will recall ,the President and the Dems really advertised the early voting option in the last campaign. The problem with that was that most districts don't open up ALL their polling places for early voting .It would be impossible .Many polling places are in local elementary schools ,libraries etc. and having a month of early voting in school auditoriums would be quite disruptive . So districts only open up a few places for early voting . On Election Day, when the majority of people vote, Miami-Dade had 829 polling places open, but only 20 were open prior to Election Day.

So this whole nonsense about 8 hr lines is a canard. I want to see the example of anyone having to wait that long ,or even close to that long ON ELECTION DAY . It did not happen.

Hello dad:

To ME, 8 hour waits to vote indicate anything BUT that the system is working.

excon

The system is working in that they are going through the courts to resolve it as intended by the law. That section was meant to be reviewed and now it will be.

here is what happened with the 8 hr incident . This was not on election day. This happened at a early polling place in Florida; on the 1st day of early voting . Now as you will recall ,the President and the Dems really advertised the early voting option in the last campaign. The problem with that was that most districts don't open up ALL their polling places for early voting .It would be impossible .Many polling places are in local elementary schools ,libraries etc.,and having a month of early voting in school auditoriums would be quite disruptive . So districts only open up a few places for early voting . On Election Day, when the majority of people vote, Miami-Dade had 829 polling places open, but only 20 were open prior to Election Day.

So this whole nonsense about 8 hr lines is a canard. I want to see the example of anyone having to wait that long ,or even close to that long ON ELECTION DAY . It did not happen.

Florida Election: More than 200,000 didn't vote because of long lines | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2265296/Florida-Election-More-200-000-didnt-vote-long-lines.html)

Florida's Long Lines On Election Day Discouraged 49,000 People From Voting: Report (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/29/floridas-long-lines-election-voting_n_2381482.html)

Photos: Election Day in Columbus, Ohio, Sees Long Lines - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/photos-election-day-columbus-ohio-sees-long-lines-232300210.html)

Photos: Election Day in Columbus, Ohio, Sees Long Lines | View photo - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/photos/photos-election-day-columbus-ohio-sees-long-lines-photo-232300247.html)

The 1st link is for Lee County ,which is where Fort Myers is.. Here is the demographics for the county . In 2005 the population was 76.6% non-Hispanic white, 14.3% Latino, 7.5% African-American and 1.1% Asian.
So ;if there were long lines there ,how can the claim be made that it was racial discrimination?
Now ,only a few sections of Florida are covered under Sec 5 of the Voting Rights Act. So tell me how having Sec 5 on the books would've helped ?
Photos of lines don't tell me anything .There were long lines at my polling place ,and yet I was out within a half hour. How many elections were being held in the district ? How many referendum to choose from ? Was it machine ballot ,or fill out a paper ballot ? The national average ON ELECTION DAY was about 15 minutes... and that includes record turnouts in some areas ,and of course the turnout in places like Philly that exceed 100% of registered voters .

Geez Tut, it was a normal part of oral arguments at SCOTUS. If anyone is poisoning the well it's the leftist blogosphere with their collective hissy fit over Scalia making a reasonable point...if you're going to treat some states differently you better have a good reason.


Let the politicians make the reasonable points. Scalia is not at SCOTUS outlining his arguments to his fellow judges. He is in a public arena trying to preempt the way SCOTUS should vote when, or if the case comes before them. He is also outlining the reasons SCOTUS should rule against the act.

Let the politicians poison the wells. It's up to the judges to make decisions based on legal argument; not telling everyone we should entertain the idea that decisions could be based on some stuff that has been written.

The 1st link is for Lee County ,which is where Fort Myers is .. Here is the demographics for the county . In 2005 the population was 76.6% non-Hispanic white, 14.3% Latino, 7.5% African-American and 1.1% Asian.
So ;if there were long lines there ,how can the claim be made that it was racial discrimination?
Now ,only a few sections of Florida are covered under Sec 5 of the Voting Rights Act. So tell me how having Sec 5 on the books would've helped ?
Photos of lines don't tell me anything .There were long lines at my polling place ,and yet I was out within a half hour. How many elections were being held in the district ? How many referendum to choose from ? Was it machine ballot ,or fill out a paper ballot ? The national average ON ELECTION DAY was about 15 minutes ...and that includes record turnouts in some areas ,and of course the turnout in places like Philly that exceed 100% of registered voters .

And have New Black Panthers monitoring the polling place.

Hello again,

Right wing loon didn't get the message.

Women do not get pregnant when raped because "the juices don't flow, the body functions don't work" during an attack, a state lawmaker said YESTERDAY.

Republican Representative Henry Aldridge made the remarks (http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Lawmaker-Says-Rape-Can-t-Cause-Pregnancy-3036411.php)to the House Appropriations Committee as it debated a proposal to eliminate a state abortion fund for poor women.

"The facts show that people who are raped -- who are truly raped -- the juices don't flow, the body functions don't work and they don't get pregnant," said Aldridge, a 71-year-old periodontist. "Medical authorities agree that this is a rarity, if ever."

Excon

And have New Black Panthers monitoring the polling place.

LOL,you worry about 3 guys at a polling place and don't give a rats patoot about millions of TParty folks monitoring polling places at the last election? (http://www.thepalmbeachtimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=367286)

LOL,you worry about 3 guys at a polling place and don't give a rats patoot about millions of TParty folks monitoring polling places at the last election? (http://www.thepalmbeachtimes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=367286)

Um, yeah this has me scratching my head...

WOW that was fast as when I found this site it was an article about how the TParty was training election monitors in every state, starting in Texas. They were supposed to have every polling place covered.

No problem,I have a few more,

Civil rights groups uneasy about tea party election-monitoring effort | The Raw Story (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/28/civil-rights-groups-uneasy-about-tea-party-election-monitoring-effort/)

The Attack on Voting Rights Isn't Racist (http://www.thenation.com/article/170391/attack-voting-rights-isnt-racist-just-ask-artur-davis)


It's not Jim Crow. But the aggressive way that True the Vote has trained its tea party recruits to monitor voters is uncomfortably similar to tactics once employed by White Citizens Councils in Davis' very own Birmingham. The indiscriminate voter purging they've facilitated falls disproportionately on blacks and Latinos. And the hoops many may have to jump through because they lack a car, or a birth certificate, or the multiple forms that need to be filled out do eerily echo literacy tests.

There is nothing wrong with poll watchers. I have done it in the past . But that is different than standing there with a weapon at the entrance to a polling place.

Women do not get pregnant when raped because "the juices don't flow, the body functions don't work" during an attack, a state lawmaker said YESTERDAY..

"The facts show that people who are raped -- who are truly raped -- the juices don't flow, the body functions don't work and they don't get pregnant," said Aldridge, a 71-year-old periodontist. "Medical authorities agree that this is a rarity, if ever."

Excon

I don't know where that ignorant misinformation originated ;but I'd like to see the evidence they think supports this nonsense claim.It makes about as much sense as saying a woman can prevent a rape by peeing or vomiting on their attacker.

WOW that was fast as when I found this site it was an article about how the TParty was training election monitors in every state, starting in Texas. They were supposed to have every polling place covered.

No problem,I have a few more,

Civil rights groups uneasy about tea party election-monitoring effort | The Raw Story (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/11/28/civil-rights-groups-uneasy-about-tea-party-election-monitoring-effort/)

The Attack on Voting Rights Isn't Racist (http://www.thenation.com/article/170391/attack-voting-rights-isnt-racist-just-ask-artur-davis)

I'd rather have American citizens as poll watchers than the UN, and as long as EVERYONE has to abide by the same ID requirements there is no discrimination.

You can't vote in European elections without a photo ID... that way the dead can't vote... nor can illegals... and the legal people only get to vote once.

Which kind of flys in the face of the Democrat mantra... vote eary, vote often.

You can't vote in European elections without a photo ID....that way the dead can't vote...nor can illegals....and the legal people only get to vote once.
Democrats are all for having voter ID.

Democrats are all for having voter ID.

Really... then why are they the ones fighting AGAINST a required photo ID? There is no other reason.

Really...then why are they the ones fighting AGAINST a requireded photo ID? THere is no other reason.
They aren't now. Only when they have to get an ID fifteen minutes before voting.

They aren't now. Only when they have to get an ID fifteen minutes before voting.

BS... NOBODY did that.. they had years... and lame excuses were given... they can cough up an ID to get money or some other taxpayer paid benefit free to them...

They can find an ID to bail people out of jail... they can find an ID every other time except when its time to vote... because none of them can conduct any official or legal business without an ID.

So then... OweBama been in office over 4 years now... they have been lbellyaching about this for well over 4 years... therefor EVERYONE that intends to vote has known for over 4 years its going to happen... so what's their excuse now?

Cut off thoese welfare checks.. or food stamps or Medicade unless they can produce a photo ID... and see how fast they can show one or get one.

My mil was no longer driving and had allowed her driver's license to lapse. She thus had no valid ID and would have been turned away at certain polling places.

Many people in Chicago use public transportation or walk (i.e. don't own a car) and thus do not have a driver's license (valid ID).

I'd rather have American citizens as poll watchers than the UN, and as long as EVERYONE has to abide by the same ID requirements there is no discrimination.


Really...then why are they the ones fighting AGAINST a required photo ID? There is no other reason.

I was quite clear with my objection to the way you guys tried to implement the voter ID requirements, it sucked, but now you have two years to get it right and I expect a better rollout than the last attempt.

As for the guys attempting to intimidate voters, did you also notice that people ignored them? Unlike True The Vote who vowed to intimidate voters and did indeed spark purges of voter rolls.

I was quite clear with my objection to the way you guys tried to implement the voter ID requirements, it sucked, but now you have two years to get it right and I expect a better rollout than the last attempt.

As for the guys attempting to intimidate voters, did you also notice that people ignored them? Unlike True The Vote who vowed to intimidate voters and did indeed spark purges of voter rolls.

BS... thats a lame excuse... because the true votes were wswamped by repeat votes.. votes by dead people... votes by illegals...

If there were TRUE votes out there... Obama would have lost by a landslide.

Says YOU!!

I was quite clear with my objection to the way you guys tried to implement the voter ID requirements, it sucked, but now you have two years to get it right and I expect a better rollout than the last attempt.

You're the one that brought up jumping through hoops and literacy tests:


And the hoops many may have to jump through because they lack a car, or a birth certificate, or the multiple forms that need to be filled out do eerily echo literacy tests.

If EVERYONE has the same rules what's the beef, only blacks have problems with transportation, ID and registering?

We have already argued those points so let move on. You guys lost the bid to rig the last election, and lost they election period. So lets get to the next rigging attempt with the electoral college and expanding section 5.

Expand sec 5 ? Nahh ,we want it gone. The Dems want to punish certain states and locals forever . You may say that the Dems aren't opposed to voter ID ;but I haven't heard one major Dem come out in support of voter id efforts..

Yep, "progressives" can't see the irony in rejecting progress and treating some states and districts with prejudice in the name of impartiality.

expand sec 5 ? Nahh ,we want it gone. The Dems want to punish certain states and locals forever . You may say that the Dems aren't opposed to voter ID ;but I haven't heard one major Dem come out in support of voter id efforts..


Yep, "progressives" can't see the irony in rejecting progress and treating some states and districts with prejudice in the name of impartiality.

Its in court fellas, and I doubt the bringer of the suit (Sheby Co, AL) can sufficiently defend the 240 cases of documented violations of the voter rights act, since 2005.

I seriously doubt that SCOTUS will see this as a punishment either since anyone can apply for a bailout, and many have succeeded in getting relief from being under Section 5. Republicans should be punished, and harshly for election shenanigans. I mean 150 years after Lincoln and 6 months after the movie, Mississippi finally takes slavery off the books? Really?

Guess we have to wait for the decision.

Right after Obama gets harshly punished for his shenanigans and his personal involvement with Acorn... Right?

Hello again, smoothy:

You forget to mention that he's a Kenyon...

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

You forget to mention that he's a Kenyon...

excon
Kenyan... Nigerian... same difference... both are crooks.

What is kenyon, a cousin to canyon? If you are speaking of Obama ancestry it is Kenyan, now if you are being satyrical and suggesting Obama is an abyss, you may be right

what is kenyon, a cousin to canyon? if you are speaking of Obama ancestory it is Kenyan, now if you are being satyrical and suggesting Obama is an abyss, you may be right
I was going to correct the spelling, but I usually leave this board alone (since you all understand each other despite misspellings and typos).

I understand everything but every now and then an opportunity presents...

what is kenyon, a cousin to canyon? if you are speaking of Obama ancestory it is Kenyan, now if you are being satyrical and suggesting Obama is an abyss, you may be right

He's that too... however more like a black hole than an abyss... because the black hole sucks in and consumes absolutely everything near it... an abyss sits their and waits for stuff to fall in.

We would be far better off if he was just an abyss.

Republicans should be punished, and harshly for election shenanigans.

For what, requiring an ID? What the hell, Tal? Why shouldn't Dems be punished for election shenanigans? Why should Holder have dismissed the New Black Panthers case he had already won?

I amin favor of NATIONAL ID cards for anyone with a SS card period, and if its biometric so much the better but as far as 6 to 8 months before an election? No way should major changes be made. Its an unfair burden for the populace. I am perplexed at why someone who holllers about their rights, the churches rights, and rich peoples rights, that you could so blatantly interfere in the rights of citizens to vote. Explain your prejudice please, and your god awful hurry to change the rules in the middle of the stream.

As to the embellishing the incident you label as a threat by TWO people, one a certified poll watcher, and completely be silent about the repubs registration fiasco is quite beyond my understanding too.

New Black Panther Party voter intimidation case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Panther_case)


The incident drew the attention of police, who around 10:00 am, sent King Samir away in part because of his billy club. Jackson was allowed to stay, in part because he was a certified poll watcher.[7] Stephen Robert Morse, a journalist and filmmaker, upon arriving at the scene, pulled out a Flip video camera and focused on Samir Shabazz. Morse turned over the video of the incident to ElectionJournal.org.[8] The incident gained national attention after being uploaded to YouTube.[2]

No complaints were filed by voters about the incident, although poll watchers witnessed some voters approach the polls and then turn away, apparently in response to the New Black Panther Party members.[9]

GOP voter registration scandal widens - Salon.com (http://www.salon.com/2012/10/19/gop_voter_registration_scandal_widens/)


A man originally reported to have been working for the Republican Party of Virginia was arrested by the Rockingham County, Va. Sheriff's Office on Thursday and charged with attempting to destroy voter registration forms by tossing them into a dumpster behind a shopping center in Harrisonburg, Va.

How you equate an incident, minor on its face, and isolated with a deliberate plot to commit voter fraud is a mystery to me. You want integrity in voting? Then start with your own party, and demand better.

Dude, whenever you're ready to talk based on reality, I'm here. I will not keep wasting my time answering to positions you assign to me.

Hello again,

Isn't this the thread where you righty's CONVICTED Senator Menendez based solely on a right wing blog? I think it IS.

In any case, looks like that sleaze bag Tucker Carlson set the whole thing up (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/286085-report-woman-says-she-lied-about-menendez), kind of like Breitbart did a couple of times...

I suggested that you WAIT before you convict him.. But, you NEVER listen to reason.

excon

Hello again,

Isn't this the thread where you righty's CONVICTED Senator Menendez based solely on a right wing blog?? I think it IS.

In any case, looks like that sleaze bag Tucker Carlson set the whole thing up (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/286085-report-woman-says-she-lied-about-menendez), kinda like Breitbart did a couple of times...

I suggested that you WAIT before you convict him.. But, you NEVER listen to reason.

excon

And you say this while convicting Tucker Carlson of setting him up without a shred of evidence?

P.S. Washington Post report confuses one prostitute with another in bid to debunk Menendez allegations

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/03/05/wapo-report-confuses-one-prostitute-for-another-in-bid-to-debunk-menendez-allegations/#ixzz2MgTAoeac

And you say this while convicting Tucker Carlson of setting him up without a shred of evidence?

Heck... what about RatherGate where CBS fabricated evidence and tried and convicted Bush on TV and Radio for something he never did

Heck, they still convict Repubs of everything but being human on these pages every day.

Hello again, Steve:

Let me see, the Daily Caller vs The Washington Post... Hmmmm... Who to pick?? Hmmmm.. Well, it's hard, but I pick the Washington Post.

excon

Right.. the Washington Compost , the lefty political propaganda outlet... who would have guessed.

THere is a good reason their readership numbers have been in free fall... just like the New York Times.

Ad its because they are such blatant left wing hacks.

Hello again, Steve:

Lemme see, the Daily Caller vs The Washington Post... Hmmmm... Who to pick??? Hmmmm.. Well, it's hard, but I pick the Washington Post.

excon

When you get all the names and everything sorted out, let me know.

Rep. Jim Moran (D-VA) held a one-sided town hall meeting on gun violence (panelists were the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, Mayors Against Illegal Guns and the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence) . Apparently he didn't he didn't care for his actual constituency participating in the discussion:

DSlaBkrIfCg

Jim Moran is a crook that should be in jail... ask anyone that not in his district... heck.. ask a lot of people IN his district.

I know someone real well that used to work for him... but doesn't any more because they got tired of his crap and quit.

Hello again, Steve:

Yeah, what a hypocrite??

Look. I don't carry water for the Democrats, but you LOVE to single out bizarro Democrats and post stuff about them as though they represent WHO the Democrats are. You're wrong.

But, when I point out stuff that Michell Bachmann says that represent WHO the Republicans are, I'm RIGHT! The FACT is, the Republican party has moved right - WAYYYYY right. So right, in fact, that your hero Ronald Reagan would be considered a liberal by today's right wing.

The left, on the other hand, has remained steadfastly left of center. That's what Obama is, after all - a center left Democrat. Deal with it.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

Yeah, what a hypocrite???

Look. I don't carry water for the Democrats, but you LOVE to single out bizarro Democrats and post stuff about them as though they represent WHO the Democrats are. You're wrong.

But, when I point out stuff that Michell Bachmann says that represent WHO the Republicans are, I'm RIGHT! The FACT is, the Republican party has moved right - WAYYYYY right. So right, in fact, that your hero Ronald Reagan would be considered a liberal by today's right wing.

The left, on the other hand, has remained steadfastly left of center. That's what Obama is, after all - a center left Democrat. Deal with it.

excon

Obamas not a center anything... there isn't a single centrist policy or stand he's ever taken on anything. He makes Bill Clinton look like a hard core Republican.

Hello smoothy:

Yet no Obama supporters can quote Obamas centrist actions and policies... because there are none.

Hello again, Steve:

Yeah, what a hypocrite???

Look. I don't carry water for the Democrats, but you LOVE to single out bizarro Democrats and post stuff about them as though they represent WHO the Democrats are. You're wrong.

But, when I point out stuff that Michell Bachmann says that represent WHO the Republicans are, I'm RIGHT! The FACT is, the Republican party has moved right - WAYYYYY right. So right, in fact, that your hero Ronald Reagan would be considered a liberal by today's right wing.

The left, on the other hand, has remained steadfastly left of center. That's what Obama is, after all - a center left Democrat. Deal with it.

excon

I have no idea what your little rant has to do with another example of Dems waging war on women. I got to hand it to you though, for a guy that raises hell about every obscure proposal or idiotic thing a Republican says that was a pretty ballsy rant.

Hello again, Steve:


that was a pretty ballsy rant.I was, wasn't it? I thoroughly enjoyed it too.

Excon

Hello again, Steve:

I was, wasn't it? I thoroughly enjoyed it too.

excon

I always enjoy your rants. They don't usually amount too much but you do it with passion and I can admire that.

Hello again,

The war continues!

Just this month, we got right wingers in Arkansas, North Dakota and Kansas competing against themselves about who can pass the most unconstitutional antiabortion law - and they DID. Those states have virtually OUTLAWED abortion - which is, of course, BLATANTLY unconstitutional.. I thought right wingers LOVED the Constitution. No, huh?

Oh yeah, the dreaded way up inside a women vaginal probe makes a comeback, too. If you need links, I can provide them.. But, I don't think you'll argue that these states AREN'T doing that. I think you'll argue that they're hero's because they're saving babies..

But, then there's this Constitution thing...

excon

Have you even read the Conservative Constitution, Ex? They have a right to probe woman's privates. And the state has a right to tell you who is equal, who is NOT, and what men can do to pursue their own happiness.

All men are created equal, and that means white and conservative. No ex slaves or gardeners, and NO women! Lincoln is dead and states rights are back. Now get with the program.

Listen to conservatives tell you about their rights and you have none, except what they tell you you have. What's so hard about that?

Have you even read the Conservative Constitution, Ex? They have a right to probe womans privates. And the state has a right to tell you who is equal, who is NOT, and what men can do to pursue their own happiness.

All men are created equal, and that means white and conservative. No ex slaves or gardeners, and NO women! Lincoln is dead and states rights are back. Now get with the program.

Listen to conservatives tell you about their rights and you have none, except what they tell you you have. Whats so hard about that?

But as long as ex is paying for their health insurance he has a right to have a say in what they do with their bodies.

You are a bad influence over ex.

If the laws passed are in your view unconstitutional then of course the courts will over-rule them . But I don't believe they are unconstitutional based on the Roe v Wade decision. In my view ,that ruling is ripe for reversal . Don't tell me as a supporter of Obamacare that you give a fig about the 14th amendment due process 'right to privacy ' that was the justification for the decision... and as you are aware ,even the Roe decision decided that the state has legitimate interests in protecting both the pregnant woman's health and the potentiality of human life at various stages of pregnancy.
So unless you tell me that the invasive aspects of Obamacare like the state maintaining a medical data base based on mandatory extraction of information in violation of the doctor -patient relationship ,are unconstitutional... then I don't buy your belief that a women's right to privacy are violated by state laws restricting abortion.

You are a bad influence over ex.

Lol.

Hello again,


But as long as ex is paying for their health insurance he has a right to have a say in what they do with their bodies.Ok, let's clear this up. I have a say when it doesn't conflict with a right. For example, they don't have a right to smoke, and I believe that I have a right to penalize them for it, or fire them for it if I choose.

Where Steve is WRONG to cite me, is that my interest in their lives is NOT moral. It's $$'s and cents. If it need to be said, as long as I'm paying for my MALE'S health care, I am REQUIRED by the constitution of this great land of ours, to pay for my FEMALE'S coverage too. That's just so.

It was a nice switch, though.. You don't like answering my questions lately. You deflect, and skirt. You hide. I've never known you to be so shy.

Excon

Actually Tom you have to sign a consent form for any doctor to share any medical information, and good luck with overturning Roe v Wade since the constitutoinality of a female right to an abortion is firm in the first trimeter, but is illegal after except when the mothers health isn't in danger.

State nullification of federal law will fail and cost somebody a lot of loot.

Hello again,

Ok, let's clear this up. I have a say when it doesn't conflict with a right. For example, they don't have a right to smoke, and I believe that I have a right to penalize them for it, or fire them for it if I choose.

Where Steve is WRONG to cite me, is that my interest in their lives is NOT moral. It's $$'s and cents. If it need to be said, as long as I'm paying for my MALE'S health care, I am REQUIRED by the constitution of this great land of ours, to pay for my FEMALE'S coverage too. That's just so.

It was a nice switch, though.. You don't like answering my questions lately. You deflect, and skirt. You hide. I've never known you to be so shy.

excon

So if it's about money, it's OK to tell people what to do with their bodies. Interesting.

Oh, and I DID answer (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/3424939-post136.html) your question

Hello again, Steve:

I hear the wheels turning.. You're wondering WHERE you can use that AGAINST me. I'll give you an opportunity, have no doubt of that.

excon

Actually Tom you have to sign a consent form for any doctor to share any medical information

Obamacare database... you isn't seen nothing yet as to what they can do with the information . Starting next year , your doctor must record your body mass index (BMI), each time he or she treats you and turn it over to the government .Your BMI will then be tracked by HHS . What you saw at CVS this week will be repeated nationwide . The collection of each patient's BMI was so important that it was one of the first directives the department issued after ObamaCare passed. There is a reason for that.

The U.S. Preventive Services Task Force recently recommended that all obese adults receive "intensive counseling in an effort to rein in a growing health crisis in America" and that they have "intensive, multicomponent behavioral interventions."
Obese adults should get counseling, federal panel says - Los Angeles Times (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jun/25/science/la-sci-obesity-screening-20120622)
So what we are looking at is mandatory government intervention if a person is a fatty . If we push this to the logical conclusion that the libs want ;a European style universal system ,this will be the pretext for service denial .
NHS patients refused treatment unless they change their lifestyles | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2111109/NHS-patients-refused-treatment-unless-change-lifestyles.html)

Obese adults should get counseling, federal panel says - Los Angeles TimesThe task force recommendation did not become law.

Thus the line obamacare database ...you aint seen nothing yet as to what they can do with the information ... "intensive, multicomponent behavioral interventions." It's bad enough that corporations are already going to impose these surcharges ,but when the government gets around to denying care ,another blow to liberty will have been struck in this country.

You hate Obama care but its okay to probe females and tell them what to do with their bodies.

And the Dems love Obamacare so much that they just voted to repeal the medical device tax provision of the bill. More to come... I want to see Obama get one of those mandatory interventions for his smoking habit .

but when the government gets around to denying careYou mean like the insurance companies have been doing for years? Yea I know, you'll say that you can change insurance companies but in reality that is not the case at all. It's another fear tactic.

Don't get excited Tom, it's a very early non binding vote. Got a link to the full bill yet? I watched it on CSpan this morning while I was getting my draft selections ready. I guess the senate can draft a budget.

I've heard that stuff for years and have yet to meet anyone who was insured in the past and denied coverage .

Don't get excited Tom, its a very early non binding vote. Got a link to the full bill yet? I watched it on CSpan this morning while I was getting my draft selections ready. I guess the senate can draft a budget.

The Senate passed their budget by a vote. But yes ,the vote on the medical device tax was non-binding . It was a CYA vote . Yup ,even Elizabeth Warren voted to repeal.

Where Steve is WRONG to cite me, is that my interest in their lives is NOT moral. It's $$'s and cents.

excon


This is scary. If it all comes down to just money then those with lifetime problems or high cost births then it would mean them not being born at all due to the codts that come with it.

DO we start denying cancer care because of the cost ? How about AIDS ? Not to mention other health care problems that can arise throughout a lifetime.

This is scary. If it all comes down to just money then those with lifetime problems or high cost births then it would mean them not being born at all due to the codts that come with it.

DO we start denying cancer care because of the cost ? How about AIDS ? Not to mention other health care problems that can arise throughout a lifetime.

Just a matter of time... and dollars.

Time for an update on the Democrat war on women :

NY Daily Snooze is reporting that low income female employees of the NYC Parks Dept were forced to strip down to the undies and dance around a stripper's pole .

The clandestine parties were held in a so-called “boom boom” room at a city-owned facility on Randalls Island. And the seasonal workers who “got on the pole” were rewarded with additional work or permanent jobs, sources told The News.

A female worker who attended several of the parties said they got steamier each year.


Female Parks Department workers stripped for permanent jobs, more work at raunchy holiday parties: sources - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/women-parks-dept-stripped-better-jobs-sources-article-1.1357067#ixzz2UhhCOw9F)


There was never a direct order from Cafaro or Figueroa for the women to participate, according to the female staffers who took their complaints public. But the seasonal workers get asked back for jobs or offered permanent positions based on the recommendations of Cafaro and Figueroa, the workers said.

Many of the women are low-income single mothers, some of whom came into the job through the welfare system and are desperate to keep the seasonal positions that can run anywhere from four to six months at a time.

The most junior positions start at $9, and city seasonal workers, who Benn represents, get $14 an hour. Cafaro tacitly encouraged women to go along with the suggestive atmosphere by rewarding those who stripped down to their skivvies and danced on the pole with more work, said the female staffers.

This comes in the wake of revelations that a NYC assemblyman made all types of lurid and frankly disgusting advances on his female staff.

Eight former Lopez staffers, all young women, described his lurid behavior to state investigators.

Some were forced to massage his body. The cancer-stricken Lopez allegedly rubbed the thighs of others — and even forced one woman to feel his tumors.

Some of the alleged acts took place during car trips to and from Albany, Long Island and Atlantic City,
Pervy pol Vito Lopez could face criminal charges outside Brooklyn: legal experts - NY Daily News (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/vito-lopez-face-charges-brooklyn-experts-article-1.1346803#ixzz2Uhj4Mlj5)

And of course we get to watch the spectacle of a Weiner campaign . The hubby of Huma Weiner of the Clintoon machine;who notoriously texted pix of his junk to women is attempting a political comeback Today he began advertising for college interns as 'staffers '... another trick he learned from the Clintoons. Their specialty must be in social media skills to help him 'enhance 'his message .
Weiner in job posting seeking interns for mayoral campaign - NYPOST.com (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/take_cover_WqS45SX3mHD03Qp3U8f1mN)

How does that relate to a democratic war on women?

NY is a democrat state . All the pols I mention are Dems In good standing .They talk a good game about protecting women .But in the final analysis ,they are all misogynists.

The ol' "name that party" game when Dems are behaving badly.