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View Full Version : Electric door doesn't open when it should


pintree3
May 15, 2012, 07:45 PM
I wonder if you could help me. Problem regards electric door opener/strike.
The electric strike (door opener) obviously is on the door frame attached to the wall and then there's the door with its latch plate and 'tongue' going in and out.
The problem is this, if the door is opened (hence latch tongue not in contact with electric strike) or if the door is closed but the latch tongue is not out, is still within its compartment/latch (hence latch tongue is yet again not in contact with electric strike) then if one pushes the button to create a connection to open the door we can indeed hear the sound of it doing its job and one can feel the vibration. However, the minute the door is actually closed with the tongue within the door frame electrical latch then nothing happens, no sounds, no more current. How could this be? What is going wrong? And therefore what would need to be checked/fixed. Thank you

Stratmando
May 16, 2012, 05:31 AM
When you feel the vibration that should be the Strike Energizes and able to release the door. When the door colses, it should not be energized to secure the door.
Many times timers are used, 5sec?

pintree3
May 16, 2012, 08:47 PM
Thanks for trying to help. I'm not sure if I understand your explanation so I will add to it. The split-second you click on the buzzer button, if and only if the latch tongues is NOT in the strike then the connection is made immediately-one can hear right away the buzzing sound and feel the piece vibrate. When the tongue is within the strike's mouth nothing is heard or felt.
Attached r 3 photos. 1- A-ElecDoorStrike -2- B-Door Latch and -3- C-Ringer. I have placed notes in the photos written in red.
Photo A shows the door strike. This piece is inside the door frame which is attached to the outside wall. You'll note it has 2 wires and only 2. Those 2 wires are connected to 2 wires within the door frame (Again, here in the door frame as well there are only 2 wires). The strike has what you can call a female or a mouth. In photo B-Door Latch you'll notice the male/tongue. Photo3 shows the ringer. The ringer is upstairs-1 floor up-- from the door strike. The ringer also has only 2 wires which are attached in the only other 2 wires. This button has a small light which is always on. The button shown when pressed, sets of the door strike to buzz (the metal piece vibrates and in the process loosens itself and thereby no longer keeping the door lip/male locked).
What happens is this: If the male (tongue) is inside the female (whole) then when the upstairs ringer is pressed nothing is heard--as if there is no electricity, as if the button was never pressed. If on the other hand the male is not in the female then one can hear the door strike buzz and watch the metal piece vibrate. (All pieces are new).
I hope this helps

Stratmando
May 17, 2012, 06:59 AM
Did it use to work wired this way, or new install?
The contact with the door may be physically stopping the vibrating.
With the door open look for continuity between the door strike wires and the "male" part. Should be none.
Sounds like when the door is opened and the button is pressed, the Strike releases(can be moved manually).
Put a meter on the 2 wires and check voltage with the door open and button pressed, then close door, press button and measure this voltage, Less?
What is the voltage of the transformer?
Is this a long run with light gauge wire?

pintree3
May 17, 2012, 06:59 PM
Once again thanks. To answer your Q's:
Did it use to work wired this way, or new install?
Yes, it did. Hre's the unfortunate lack-of-detail story. The door had stopped working about 4 years ago--a time whereby I was not on the continent. Because of winter/summer door frame had to be fixed. In the process my 82-yr-old dad screwed in a screw and screwed up the wire within the old strike. Was it from this point that it stopped working. He can't recall but obviously it could not have helped any and it was changed.
You also said: The contact with the door may be physically stopping the vibrating. With the door open look for continuity between the door strike wires and the "male" part. Should be none.
The wires are behind the door strike (the strike is obviously not on the door but on the door wall frame) and because they are properly connected to the house there is no contact between them and anything else.
You also said, " Sounds like when the door is opened and the button is pressed, the Strike releases(can be moved manually)."
The strike can never be moved manually because the mouth has its own tongue thing which is locked into place. The electrical current releases this tongue from being locked.
You then said: "Put a meter on the 2 wires and check voltage with the door open and button pressed, then close door, press button and measure this voltage, Less?
For me to do this I would have to remove the strike from the door wall frame. OK. As to, 'then close door..." for me to do this I would have to place back the strike within the door frame. OK fine but then what voltage from where would I be measuring?
What is the voltage of the transformer?
Will find out as soon as I go there again.
Is this a long run with light gauge wire?
Sorry don't know what this means. I'm a DIY guy not a pro electrician.
Here's additional info I said to my friend:
Is this an apartment with many buttons? No, one house with 2 additional apartments. Below is my response to a friend helping with the same problem: Where is the transformer? It is (brand new) 2 floors below the door opener hence one floor below the door (where the electric strike is).
As to the wires they are well connected to each other making absolutely no contact with anything else.
From what is visible, it does not matter if or if not the door is open or closed. What matters is if the tongue/male is open or closed and whether it is making contact with the strike or not. The tongue/male can be set (manually) so it is always open--it always stays within the door, in its 'inside' position. If the male is released than at that point one can close and lock the door (manually with or without key or electrically). The problem therefore is, as you mentioned, when the male/tongue makes contact with the female/mouth/opening.
And now to answer your other Q's. Assuming the door is in a 'normal' position, with its male/tongue sticking out and the door is pulled the buzzing works on and off (I guess this yes and no is depending on the pressure being used--contact or no contact). If it is not pulled but pushed the buzzing sound does come up (hence pressure is better when pushed). Obviously though the minute you try to open the door it won't open since the pressure is back on/there is contact again. This would suggest that it may well be the pressure--the contact between the metal of the male and the metal of the female.
According to what Zorfdt said: "On commercial electric latches, there's a security feature built in that if you're pulling on the door, and press the button to release the latch, the latch will not open. It's part of the design to help prevent the latch from being forced open. One side effect of this, is if the "tongue" is tight against the latch when the door is closed, the latch won't open since it thinks it's being forced open. You may need to adjust the door and latch to ensure the "tongue" is loose inside the latch when the door is closed."
Though I very much doubt this is a 'commercial' electric latch there does seem to be a truth in your thinking, "It's part of the design to help prevent the latch from being forced open." and therefore also right in thinking, "if the "tongue" is tight against the latch when the door is
closed, the latch won't open"
However, "to adjust the door and latch to ensure the "tongue" is loose inside the latch when the door is closed" is NOT possible (see attached design) since the male's width/height/length is such so that it fits in snugly within the female. There is a hair's space to its width, and the same to its height. This leaves us with the length. The length of the tongue/male is sufficiently longer than the mouth/female's length. To place the door in such a position so that the length would not touch would require the door to leave a nice space between it and the frame (whereby a knife could be easily let in or cold or heat will have enough space to get in. No door anywhere has such a gap--besides as mentioned the width and height would nevertheless still touch/make4 contact. In conclusion though this may seem like what the problem or solution may be, it can not. Or there must be a work-around since changing size of door latch/tongue, size of door strike/mouth or position of either is not possible. (Sorry for my constant long explanations, but it is the only way I know to make it clear (according to me at least).

Strike art # is: from TRINE Access technology The 3000 Series Strike (smallest electric strike in the world) www.trineonline.com 8-16VAC/4-6VDC Volts, 1.3-2.7 amps

Stratmando
May 18, 2012, 05:12 AM
Looks like you just have 2 wires and is what you said, I had a thought that some have switches that will make/break contact when it is in the hole. If wired wrong, it would not work. This is not your case.
I think it is maybe another problem with the wiring in the door frame.
The Strike may be bad if damaged by water.

pintree3
May 21, 2012, 07:27 PM
When all was said and done it ended up being a safety feature, therefore the problem was caused by pressure. Thanks to all

Stratmando
May 22, 2012, 04:43 AM
What a pain, good you hung in there.
Take care.