Like many previous posters I have encountered the problem of having a pet store puppy that seems to enjoy messing in his crate. We have done EVERYTHING we have been told to do about crate training. He is on a good feeding schedule (in his crate), we take him outside upon wakening, after feeding, after playing, etc, we removed his bedding from his crate, we downsized the crate so he could only stand up, turn around and lay down... I need some new suggestions! He doesn't whine at night to go outside, he whines AFTER he made a mess, and he seems to be a very stubborn pooper. We take him outside to "go potty" and after a half hour- nothing, so I put him back in his crate and 2 minutes later he has gone in his crate. I have cleaned his entire crate multiple times with enzymatic cleaner in hopes that the lack of smell would entice him not to mess in his crate but again- no success. We even bought the pheromone attractant and sprayed it outside where he is supposed to eliminate but still- not much progress. Please help, I am at my wits end and growing more and more frustrated with this bundle of joy

How old is your little guy? How often and when do you feed him? What do you feed him and how much? What's his weight? Sorry for all the questions but we never really know what folks mean when they say "have done EVERYTHING "

He is about 11 weeks old. We feed him about a cup of Kirkland puppy food at 6am and 6pm. He weighs about 15lbs. I don't mind the questions at all, I need help desperately!

Pet store puppies can often equal puppy mills. You have no idea what this puppy has been through, the lineage, anything else.

How old is he?

And remember, he has been trained to poop in his crate. You are going to have to "erase" that need in his brain and instill the desire for new behaviors.

There are excellent resource people on this board, so please check back occasionally to see who has posted what. Answers to questions will help everyone.

Why is he on a feeding schedule 'in his crate', and how much time does he spend in his crate? A puppy is a puppy no matter where he comes from, and boxers are essentially smart and quick learners, don't assume because he comes from a pet store he is not trainable.

Yes, how old is your pup? We can start from there.

We feed him in his crate because we were told it might help deter him from having accidents in his crate. He sleeps in his crate, but other than that he is rarely in his crate for more than 3-4hrs at a time when we are at work, etc

He's just a baby and, yes, he's doing what he's been taught to do - sort of.

Know what I would do (and I've had a number of dogs, many of them rescues)? I wouldn't make a deal out of this. The more anxious you become the more anxious he becomes. I'd be as casual as I can (while quietly pulling my hair out). He poops, you clean it up. I'd make going on time fun and hope that pooping when he's outside just happens. Then you praise him.

I had a dog who HATED the kennel and went out of her way to poop in it. I bought one of those puppy playpens (very large), put that on the front of the kennel and that's where she was when I worked. She could go in or out of the kennel but was still inside the pen.

She wouldn't poop in the pen so you would go inside the kennel to do her business. Then she stopped doing that.

If your dog was kenneled a lot, that's where he went to the bathroom and now he has to relearn.

And, yes, I agree with my colleague, Tickle. The fact that it's a pet shop dog doesn't mean it's stupid - it just means it hasn't always been in a family situation and may have picked up bad habits.

What great answers you are getting and yes, he is a baby. Feeding twice a day is OK but 2 cups is on the high side. How Much to Feed a Dog (http://petcareeducation.com/dog/how-much-to-feed-a-dog/) This tells me you need to supervise him more "so I put him back in his crate and 2 minutes later" You need to catch him as he starts to poop. Walk him longer, he needs a good 60 minute walk. If he poops during the walk praise him. If he starts to poop in his crate, remember you are supervising him now, just say NO in a firm tone and then say "Lets go outside." Stay with him, he will try to poop agagin in a few minutes and then you get another chance to praise. No scolding, rubbing nose it, or anything unpleasant, he would not understand what he did wrong and might not trust you as much if you yell. I know you probably would not do any of those things but you have been reading our other posts and probably read a few questionable bits of advice.

I would love to take him for walks but the vet told me he can't until he gets his rabies vaccine, which is on April 15. So for now he is limited to our small concrete patio (which we spray the pheromone attractant on). The amount to feed him is a point of contention. The vet tech scolded me that I wasn't feeding him enough with one cup in the morning and one in the evening. I offer him the 1 cup and take away what ever he has not eaten in about a half hour. I have caught him in the act and taken him outside multiple times, however, sometimes I am not watching him (mostly in the middle of the night or while I am out of the house)and can only clean him and his crate. It was suggested that I remove the divider in his crate so he doesn't have to lay in his excrement so he will get used to being clean (and hopefully like it), then add the divider back in; does this sound like a reasonable solution? Also, I was thinking about getting the deterrent pheromone to spray in his crate. However, I am worried this will not only make him not want to eliminate in his crate, but also make him hate being in his crate. Does anyone have any experience with these matters?

I posted my experence with the same problem. Why does he have to be in a crate? Why not a pen with a kennel/crate he can go into if he has to.

Has a Vet made certain there are no health problems?

Do not spray deterrent in his crate, it neds to remain a safe haven, a cave for him. I think the vet tech is not correct but I do not know her training or background. My vet "tech" is a high school girl with no formal training so who knows. I'd read as many dog food sites. Kirkland dog usually has a recommendation on the bag. Sorry, never used any divider in a crate, why is it there?

I am big on the baby issue. My dogs have always been cuddled a lot, a lot of handling, they love being close and hearing Heart beats and body Rythms, because they are still at that mindset, but not for long! You are still the alpha and can love him and show it without crossing the line.

I have only used a crate once in 40 years of wonderful dogs. The last time was my very large walker hound Taffy, her crate door was always open and she got to using it to get away from us believe it or not; she came and went when she wanted a quiet moment and we always respected that. She was completely housebroken from ten weeks on because I was absolutely diligent !

I'm agreeing with everyone here on some level, so forgive me if I repeat something already said.
1-He is young, it will take time and patience. Don' t expect him to be fully house trained until
He about 8-9 months old.
2-Pet store puppy, Pooping where he sleeps is most likely no big deal to him because of his
Previous environment, you basically started from scratch.
3-Crate-will need to be his safe haven.
4-Feeding- recommendations for feeding should be printed on the bag of food according to
Weight.

I am curious as to the need for rabies vaccination before being allowed out for walks,
If he is supervised and leashed and has no contact with other animals.
There is a need for a full set of parvo/distemper before he ventures out into the wide world.
But having only a concrete slab to go on seems counterproductive.
I'm sure there is a reason for this and I'm not questioning your vets' advice. Just curious.

The divider makes it so you can adjust the size of the crate

Im guessing the need for the rabies vaccine is because we live in an apartment and there are a lot of dogs in the complex.

You can take your dogs on a walk. The Rabies vaccine is contracted from a bite wound. He can't pick it up and bring it home or contract it to any other animals unless he is infected and bites another animal. Parvo, is the virus/vaccine that needs to be completed in a serious of 3 before the puppy is allowed to wander outside of home.

Removing the divider in the crate is a bad idea. Your puppy is learning to potty in his crate and sleep where its clean. Yes, you want your pup to learn to stay clean. But that's not how you do it. Instead, you are teaching him its OK to potty in his crate.

Does he potty while you are asleep? Or is it anytime he is crated? If he throws a tantrum and screams and carries on, than he is exhibiting separation anxiety. Separation anxiety dogs will eliminate in their crates. This disease is just dealt with, there is no cure to it. Some puppies that have been bounced from place to place will develop this syndrome as well. Some grow out of it, some don't.

Now is a good time to start obedience. Get your puppys mind working. He's starting to explore and experience his world more.. you need to get him out. Sometimes when you redirect energy in a positive direction, the house trianing falls right in line. Dogs that have no direction will do weird, odd and bad things, such as pottying in the crate.

Puppy store puppies should be checked for worms, coccidia, giardia and other types of diseases that effect the bowels. If your puppy has any of those, house training is very hard. If you haven't had a fecal done, then I would suggest you get that done and rule out anything medical that could help you. Various types of intestinal parasites require different types of treatments.

I would also suggest you get a small, plastic crate. The open wire crates with a divider in it are an optical illusion. You're puppy is thinking he is in a big space, but isn't.. so therefore he thinks he can potty and leave it. Small, plastic covered crates resemble more of a den and is a more natural feel to it even though your pup probably has never had that type of housing.

Unforunately there is no magic word or special position that is going to make your puppy become house trained. It takes time, dedication and consistancy. Consistancy is the number one factor that will make or break house training. Put yourself on a schedule. Put your puppy on that same schedule. Because your puppy's history, its not going to happen in the expected 1-2weeks, it could take a month.. it could take 6 months.. He may never really be house trained... Dogs never follow the book.. and that is something you're going to have to accept and deal with accordingly.

What I do with my puppies (rescue puppies), They get fed in their crates or in the kitchen.. and then I either play with them or let them nap. About 15-20 minutes.,. Maybe even a half hour, I take them out. And we don't go back in until puppy goes potty. While outside, I stand perfectly still and just say "go potty" as a command. Don't sound fun.. don't act fun.. Be a statue. Ignore him if he jumps on you and so on. If he doesn't potty in front of you.. than put him back in his crate or tie him to you or hold him... You can even play with him. If you play with him.. the minute he stops.. go outside. Puppies typically have to go potty ever hour or so... So knowing that.. make a schedule of every hour to hour and a half.. its time go out side and go potty. Give him the command and make a HUGE deal about him pottying outside. Praise is a wonderful tool for puppies.. Maybe even give him an extra special treat that he gets no other time when he goes potty outside.

If you can't watch him, crate him. Right now is not the time to forget about him. He is either in your sights at all times, or he is in his crate. The better he gets, the more freedoms he will get. The worse he gets, the less freedoms he will get.

This is going to take a lot of tough love.. Its also going to take a lot of time and patience... You just need to stick to your guns and get him to do what you want.

Thank you for such a wonderful, detailed answer! He has pottied in his crate both while sleeping and while we weren't home. The problem at night is he doesn't whine! We wake up to a puppy sleeping in poop. I recently got baby monitors just in case he's whining and we aren't hearing it so hopefully that will help

Maybe try and put the kennel in your room. You will automatically be awake to his movements.. When you hear him moving around, take him outside immediately.

Some dogs have very quiet and suddle signals for them needing to go potty.

I've never kept a puppy in a separate room. It makes house training and crate training near impossible. And yes, there was probably a good 4 days of restless nights, especially if the puppy is a problem puppy.

Lucky, both a "helpful" and applause. Very comprehensive, great answers.

I agree, Lucky did a great job. I am a bit concerned about a baby monitorbeing used. Many of us think he "learned" to poop in his crate from the puppy mill. If he is a learner the monitor may wake you to take him out in the midlle of the night. I would not look forward to my dogs learning this. If he is healthy and wormed there should be no bowel movement in the night if he is fed on a schedule, I think you said at 6:00am and 6:00 pm. Follow Lucky's advice but consider more exercise one hour after eating the evening meal. Good luck

Yes, I agree with Lucky and ballenger. I wouldn't rely on a baby monitor. Your puppy should be able to sleep through the night. Take him out last thing in the night before you hop into bed, then set your alarm to get up 1/2 hour earlier than you normally do and immediately go to the puppy's crate to see if he's clean. If he is, it could be that the morning rituals prior to his going out are taking too long. If he's not, set your alarm 15 minutes. Earlier the next day. Do this up to an hour earlier. If he is dirty each of these times, change it up - set your alarm for an hour after you go to bed. I don't expect you to take him out or even wake him at that time.. just see if he has messed in his crate. Once you determine WHEN it is that he is actually going to the bathroom you can determine the real issue. The important thing is that taking puppy out is ALWAYS done last thing before YOU settle for the night and FIRST thing in the morning (before you do anything for the first little while). You can gradually extend crated time at night based upon his ability to stay settled and clean.

I wouldn't use the pheremone attractant if I were you. Just take him to the same place every time to "do his job" and stay there until he does it. If he doesn't do it, then he is crated or tied to you so you can watch him for the signs of needing to go. Also, I am a firm believer that you must totally ignore the pooping in the cage (ie: don't punish, gripe or carry on about it), give a firm "NO" when you catch him attempting to go in the house and praise and reward the positive with the utmost of excitement. Reward can be a treat (which I don't tend to use except for very strongly food motivated puppies), happy playtime and a run, play with a favourite toy, excited petting and high, happy baby-talk voice filled with "good boy do your job!" (puppies respond VERY well to that), etc.

If he is only having accidents in his crate it does sound like he just isn't aware of what the acceptable place is that he should go to the bathroom. He probably does see that as the place he is supposed to go because he has spent a lot of his short life in a cage. I also think the plastic crate might be a good solution for him. Leave the crate open and accessible at all times when he's not in it and if he goes in it to sleep on his own and doesn't mess in it, reward him when he wakes and immediately take him outside.

I do want to say that as far as feeding and puppies go... a puppy will get into more mischief if they feel hungry - especially puppy mill dogs. It stresses them more than you can imagine. I don't feel that what you were feeding is out of line for a boxer. I have 3 dogs... my Bernese Mountain Dog (125 lbs) eats 2 cups twice a day. My Chocolate Lab (65 lbs) eats 1 1/3 cups twice a day and my Golden Retriever (57 lbs) who is 15 months old eats 2 1/3 cups twice a day. A boxer is generally a high energy dog who will burn off food fairly quickly. You can reduce his food intake after he matures. My Golden Retriever pup was eating 2 1/2 cups a meal (and remember, she was eating 3 to 4 meals a day during that time) from 8 weeks to 12 weeks and 3 cups from 12 weeks to 18 weeks, then gradually reduced it on her own. All of my dogs are slim and active.

Boxers ARE intelligent and do need to be challenged intellectually. I strongly advise you take him to obedience training and you might want to consider a trainer who will gradually ease you into rally obedience. The dog will love it and you will form a strong bond with him. Play hide and seek with him in the house - hide a favourite toy (simply at first and only in one room) and have him find it. Guide him with "YES!", "over (and point in the correct direction), "back (with a pushing motion of the hand), and a quiet "no" when he's going in the wrong place. He will LOVE it!

Your puppy is trying hard to learn and you are too. Soon this will all be behind you. Good luck!

Hugs, Didi

Try getting the dog a smaller crate then if it poops it will have to lye in it which it won't want to do which will also make it stop hopefully

Try getting the dog a smaller crate then if it poops it will have to lye in it which it won't want to do which will also make it stop hopefully



This is cruel, heartless, foolish advice. You did read that this is about a puppy, right? You do realize how long it takes a puppy to achieve bowel control and how frequently the puppy has to "poop," right?

I hope you don't have a dog!

Try getting the dog a smaller crate then if it poops it will have to lye in it which it won't want to do which will also make it stop hopefully
In addition to what Judy said, lying in his poop won't make the puppy stop. When he has to go, he will go. When he wants to lie down, he will lie down in it.

Well I tried this with my two puppies I got the advice from a dog book and the advice worked

Plus I absolutely love dogs and puppies so I wouldn't try it or advise it if I didn't know it works

Plus I absolutely love dogs and puppies so I wouldn't try it or advise it if I didn't know it works
We won't put you in a small cage and make you...

Plus I absolutely love dogs and puppies so I wouldn't try it or advise it if I didn't know it works


Having something work and being cruel are two different things.

What was the name of "the book" that gave you this advice?

A person who loves dogs and puppies does not crate them with their own waste. Sorry, you're wrong.

Plus I absolutely love dogs and puppies so I wouldn't try it or advise it if I didn't know it works

I have to ask. How many dogs have you owned? What is your background, are you a trainer, or do you just consider yourself to be one. Just owning a dog doesn't make you an expert in dog care or training. In fact, too many people that have dogs don't have a clue when it comes to training.

Just because it's in a book doesn't mean it's right. You have to use common sense. Telling someone to let their 11 week old puppy lie in its own poop, is not only cruel, but the worst advice you can give.

On this site we don't guess. The majority of people answering the dog questions know what they're doing. If you give bad or harmful advice we will call you on it, we're not here to make you feel special, we're here to help the animals that are in people's lives.

Lucky gave a very accurate, very precise post. I have nothing to add. I have a 9 week old puppy right now, and he's never had one accident in his crate. But then, he was on a farm, not a pet store, or puppymill, and sadly, the majority of dogs sold in pet stores are puppymill dogs. Farm dogs learn not to pee or poo where they sleep. It's not natural for a dog to do so. But puppymill/petstore dogs are forced to spend 24/7 in a cage, so they have no option but to poop where they sleep. It will take more than a few weeks to train him that this behavior isn't right, because that's all he's ever known.

I can only add that I wish the OP a lot of luck. Be consistent, kind, and I'm very sure that puppy will come around in time. :)

Sorry didn't mean to upset anyone really sorry :(:(:(:(

Sorry didn't mean to upset anyone really sorry
Promise us you won't ever put a dog in a crate and make him lie in his own poop. Or rub his nose in it. And ask real dog experts for help with any dog problems or questions.

Sorry didn't mean to upset anyone really sorry :(:(:(:(

It's not a problem, and your apology is accepted. :)

Just try to stick to answering questions where you're positive about the answer, where you've had experience, not just read something in a book.

We take the lives of the animals in the pet forum very seriously. The answers have to be dead on accurate, not googled, but given from people with vast knowledge and experience working with animals.

There are many forums on this site where only opinion matters, like the dating forum, or discussion forum, but forums like the pet forum, the legal forum, the medical forum, you can't guess, or offer opinion. You have to know what you're talking about, and know it completely.

Stick around, post, answer questions, but stick to the forums you can contribute to. By all means read the forums you're interested in, listen, learn. You can't become an expert in something if you don't learn, right? :)

I have to ask. How many dogs have you owned? What is your background, are you a trainer, or do you just consider yourself to be one. Just owning a dog doesn't make you an expert in dog care or training. In fact, too many people that have dogs don't have a clue when it comes to training.

Just because it's in a book doesn't mean it's right. You have to use common sense. Telling someone to let their 11 week old puppy lie in its own poop, is not only cruel, but the worst advice you can give.

On this site we don't guess. The majority of people answering the dog questions know what they're doing. If you give bad or harmful advice we will call you on it, we're not here to make you feel special, we're here to help the animals that are in people's lives.

Lucky gave a very accurate, very precise post. I have nothing to add. I have a 9 week old puppy right now, and he's never had one accident in his crate. But then, he was on a farm, not a pet store, or puppymill, and sadly, the majority of dogs sold in pet stores are puppymill dogs. Farm dogs learn not to pee or poo where they sleep. It's not natural for a dog to do so. But puppymill/petstore dogs are forced to spend 24/7 in a cage, so they have no option but to poop where they sleep. It will take more than a few weeks to train him that this behavior isn't right, because that's all he's ever known.

I can only add that I wish the OP a lot of luck. Be consistent, kind, and I'm very sure that puppy will come around in time. :)



She is 11 - and this is undoubtedly 11 year old advice.

She is 11 - and this is undoubtedly 11 year old advice.

Ahh! Well it makes sense now.

To the 11 year old, I do welcome you to this site, because we sadly don't really have an age limit for joining, but I have to say this, as a mom, this is really not a place where you should be "hanging out". There are very adult issues discussed on this site, and even though I trust every single long term member on this site with both of my children, there are still things on this site that a child should not be reading.

Do your parents know that you've joined this site? Have they read all of the forums that you can access on this site? Do you have their permission to be here?

I don't know one forum where you'd actually have the experience to answer a question. You're too young to even answer questions in the teen forum.

Not that we don't welcome you, but I am worried that this place may be a bit too mature for a child your age. In a few years you'd be a bit better equipped to deal with everything you can access here. Until then, I really don't think this is a place for an 11 year old. I hope you take that into consideration before you continue. Okay?

Well, actually she's posted about "tonguing" on the adult boards. I would guess there is little or no parental supervision.

I hope she takes your words to heart OR posts on suitable boards.

Yeah sorry about that me and my best friend share this account

Yeah sorry about that me and my best friend share this account


First, you and your best friend have exactly the same writing style, same "Yeah" and no punctuation, other similarities.

You wouldn't believe how many people post things they regret... and then announce it wasn't them, it was their (A) best friend; (B) sister; (C) cousin; (D) You fill in the blank.

Sharing an account is against the AMHD rules. You also posted that you want to stop being part of AMHD. Just stop posting and that will happen.

You were given very well stated, clear, caring advice - and you responded with the "best friend" lie. You are simply too young to participate in an adult board.

Yeah sorry about that me and my best friend share this account

Why? It's free to join, it's free to participate, so there's absolutely no reason to share an account with anyone, and it's against the rules of the site to do so.

In other words, I don't believe it, because it makes no sense, and we've heard that lie one too many times to fall for it again.