Okay, this is tough. I have a friend whom I have much in common with. She had been living with another of my (ex)friends. Their relationship -- and my friendship with this woman -- started at the same time, six years ago. My ex-friend was her first boyfriend. She's been abused or abandoned most of her life, and sadly this didn't end with my ex-friend's treatment of her, which is why I'm no longer his friend. He nearly killed her several years ago, though I didn't know at the time. I did know that he was hitting her and being controlling, but all I could do was listen and encourage her to leave him. I can tell you that forcing the situation would have ended in injury and incarceration. I'd already cut him off in my heart, but staid around for her sake, because he is bipolar and my disappearing could easily have made things worse. Long story short, he put her in the hospital before Christmas of last year, and a judge instituted a restraining order on him for 11 months. She is done with him, I can tell, though obviously wounded and shocked. It's been two months, or a bit more. I let her vent and comfort her, but she talks about him less and less.

So now she's making it obvious that she wants me, and while I didn't want her when she was with my ex-friend (it's the way I am), that has changed. She's beautiful and we have a lot in common. She says she'd been having sexual dreams about me for months before her other relationship ended. She's told me that she wished she'd been with me for the whole time instead of my ex-friend.

Is this just rebound, or is it deeper than that? From what I've read about rebounds, it doesn't seem to be that simple, because of the time frames and friendship involved. And in any case, how should I proceed if I don't want it to be just a fling or something even more destructive? I don't want to hurt her. Do I ever get to have her?

Take a chance all ready, you wimp! So what if you get hurt? Life's all about taking risks. Just be smart about it.

Let her get on her feet SOLO first.

If you become her boyfriend now, you will be a rebound, and one of the worst kind. She sees you as her hero right now, and her feelings for you are NOT what you'd wish them to be.

She needs to know that she can be single, and healthy, and on her own after getting out of this abusive relationship. She will ALSO have things that she needs to work on and get counseling for. Encourage her to do so!

You should also ask yourself what YOUR motives are. If they are to "get" this girl... then no, you probably won't ever "get" her. If they are that you care about her, and want to help her, and want her to be healthy and happy, regardless of whether that ends in a relationship with you... then yes, you may have a chance.

By "have" I meant "be with," Synnen. But I get your point. My motives are simple, but not base, in my estimation. One problem is that in some sense there may never be a time when she doesn't consider me a hero figure, because I'm the only stable person she's had in her life, as far as I can tell. She's got an abusive uncle, and a half-brother who only seems to half care. She's moving in with another friend (who's stable and married) for the interim. I'm hoping that will show her what a happy healthy relationship is supposed to look like. Over time, maybe she can shed her baggage, or at least reduce its intensity. That way I hope to find out what she truly feels about me, because it's probably corrupted by her situation now.

One thing that scares me is that a friend of mine faced a similar situation, and he chose the "high road" which ultimately led to regret for him. The girl ended up with another man in a short time frame, and they are still together (for about a year or more). He only found out later that she had feelings for him.

Hoo boy! This is fraught with peril. I think Synnen is right about her needing to heal and find her own center before she gets into another relationship with you or anybody else, but the fact that she's trying to start something up with you tells me that isn't how she sees her situation. If you do get involved with her now, the chances are high that your relationship will never be one between equals. You'll always be the strong stable one and she'll be perpetually dependent on you to prop up her fragile self-esteem and keep her from falling apart. Not a good long-term prognosis. On the other hand, I don't necessarily believe that longevity is the only true measure of the value of relationships, so if you're willing to accept the risks and the hazards, maybe you should go for it. If she's determined to be in a relationship, she will do it, and you may find yourself in the same role you played while she was with your abusive ex-friend. Tough call, my friend. I hope it works out for you.

Thanks for all of your replies. I think at some level I knew much of this, but I needed other perspectives. What a pile of horse crap I've fallen into! Should I even tell her I have feelings for her?

Thanks for all of your replies. I think at some level I knew much of this, but I needed other perspectives. What a pile of horse crap I've fallen into! Should I even tell her I have feelings for her?
It's your call, man. You know the risks. However you do it, this is a high-maintenance relationship that will give you a real emotional workout.

How about this. Have a serious heart-to-heart talk with her, tell her you care deeply for her and would like to have a relationship with her as soon as she's had time to get some inner strength and healing from her abusive past relationships. Suggest strongly that she start getting some counselling/therapy and set a specific point in time (I'd say at least six months) to revisit the question of getting into a serious emotional relationship. If she agrees, then you'll both have a point of reference for relating to each other and getting prepared for a relationship at a later time. If she says she doesn't need therapy and has to know right now whether you love her enough to become emotionally involved, then at least you'll know she's hell-bent for some kind of relationship and can factor that into your decision. If she starts therapy, but can't wait until the agreed time, and gets involved with somebody else, you can see it as dodging a bullet.

Just jumping into it because you think she'll get involved with somebody else if you wait is tempting fate and turning an already high-risk relationship into an even more dangerous liaison.

Good point.

Not only do I think you would be a rebound, but I honestly believe you will hinder her healing, which is so important right now. You've been a friend and what she feels may be more gratitude, and I really don't think a relationship is exactly what she needs, as good a guy as you may be. Her baggage need to be checked, and it will take a lot of time before she becomes healthy. I hope you don't stand in the way, but who can stop the human heart. Think long and hard about this and leave the fear of someone else coming into her life, out of the equation. After a little time a honest talk may be possible but for now I say no way.

She is attractive. She has made sexual advances.
You have nothing to prove to her. You're a hero. Too good to be true?
You know the answer. We usually do. But the heart can kick the minds butt most days of the week unless we train ourselves for functional relationships like Olympians. (Personally, I am going out to pick up Gatorade as we speak!)

What we think is our fate may be our folly.

This girl needs help. But not yours. And not "helping" her is the best thing you could ever do for her and yourself.
Best of luck to you and if you're still stressed if it's "to be" it would be a longgg time from now - Cheers.

Okay, heart. Okay, mind... on your mark, get set...

Oh no no no no! Please don't get into a relationship with her at this point. At this point!!

You have been a magnificent friend so far and have been instrumental in helping this girl get to a better place in her life! She is out of an abusive relationship and hopefully is beginning to heal and develop!

Please don't jeopordise that now by rushing into a relationship. I agree with Tal. I think that would be very detrimental to her recovery.

She still has so much to work on with respect to her own self. She doesn't need to work on a relationship as well. No doubt she is pushing it on you because she is still scared and frightened and you make her feel safe and secure. But it is unfair and unhealthy for her to rely on you to be that safety net. And that is a job that you should not be responsible for. She need to find that safety and emotional stability herself. Only then would it be the time to pursue things further with her.

Imagine if you were to get involved more with her now only to find it not work out and you have to leave her alone again. That would be much harder on her than you saying no now I would think!

I'm sure Val will have something very interesting to add to this conversation!

Not only do I think you would be a rebound, but I honestly believe you will hinder her healing, which is so important right now. You've been a friend and what she feels may be more gratitude, and I really don't think a relationship is exactly what she needs, as good a guy as you may be. Her baggage need to be checked, and it will take a lot of time before she becomes healthy. I hope you don't stand in the way, but who can stop the human heart. Think long and hard about this and leave the fear of someone else coming into her life, out of the equation. After a little time a honest talk may be possible but for now I say no way.

How long should I wait for the "talk"? Really, I'm feeling I have to say something soon. She's got a new job and is moving out of her brother's house not long from now, and I think this is good for her, but we see each other all the time with other friends. I drive her home a lot now, and will for probably another month. Because of the distances involved, there's lots of "alone" time in the car, and that's when she starts saying things that make my head spin.

She thinks of me as some kind of sage too (a lot of people I know do), which makes things worse, because while I'm versed in a lot of things, relationships isn't one of them...

When to do The "talk" as you say?
... I'd say no time like the present.
She doesn't expect you to step up like Clint Eastwood and take control before she guns you down with her wounded love arrrow.
But ultimately, she will respect you.

You see - she's really good at the "guy/girl thing".
And she knows you're really good at the "sage" thing".
Now here's the challenge, suprise her by being "sage at the girl/guy thing":
Tell her she's a great girl, and you are so glad to have her as a friend,
And you are excited to see her get her life on track - but not as a couple...
Casual or otherwise. The Good News is she'll like you double, so you're mojo is intact!
The one downside: as she wants you more, you'll want her more. But stay focused SAGE.
You may need a cold shower afterwards, but you just saved yourself a couple years
Of headaches - and all that testosterone and fire down below, other women will pick up on.
Slowly re-direct it in their direction... Just because she's lined up in your sights like a Russsian Mig doesn't mean you have to shoot her down. Hang in there. Survive this and your karma is going to be real good.

I am being slightly flippant here, but hoping you can smile and see the danger of fixation.
It was 6 years in the making. And it doesn't seem fair, and it's not so not easy.
But the hard thing will be the right thing and you'll see that sooner than you might expect. Good luck!

Reading what Tal, Ash and Skell have to say, I have to agree. Don't do it now, no matter what. If you really really care about what's best for her, don't get romantically involved right now (and by "now" I mean anytime in the next six moths, minimum).

Be honest with yourself, hero worship and love are to different things and do you honestly think she is in a place to now what feelings she has? Give her time, she needs a friend so keep it that way, as any move by you would be self-serving and selfish given you know what she has been through, and for how long. If you care give her a chance to get back to reality no matter what she says now. Why take advantage of a troubled person, is that what you want. Slow the train down and give it thought.

All good points. It's slowly helping me formulate a response to her. My thoughts have been disorganized recently. I can't disabuse people of the idea that I'm some sort of guru, because reading too much shows no matter what you do. But while I've had a few relationships, I still feel as if I know nothing of women. Least of all wounded and abused ones.

I'm fully aware that I have selfish desires: ultimately, all desires are selfish in nature. The only question is what is the consequence of following said desires. Not good this time, it seems. I realize that too.

The question now is, what do I do to slow down the train without derailing it? I want her to see me first as a friend, but I don't want to be disqualified as a future boyfriend. And if that wasn't enough, she's being quasi-stalked by some jerk who thinks he can just email her pictures of his junk and proposition her for sex like it's normal. I staid late at her work (she works down the sidewalk from me) in case he showed up at closing time. It's impossible for me to climb out of the shining armor with this crap going on. I can't just not be there, because if she gets hurt I'll be hurt. I'll feel like trash.

It sounds to me as if she has a habit of attracting men who are jerks (with the exception of you).

How on earth does a guy who sends emails of his junk and propositions her for sex get her email to begin with?

Does this girl associate with different circles of people??

Obviously she has had a sad past and you are being a great friend and that can never be undervalued. But is it possible that you may be just 1 of a few or others that she is using as some sort of sponge to help her forget the past.

That may be way off track but just something they may need considering.

People do some warped things when recovering from emotional trauma.

That alone should be enough for you maintain the friendship but also keep your distance when it comes to anything more.

You can even explain to her what we have discussed here. That you think it would be detrimental to her for anything more to happen between you at this point in time. You still want to be there for her and help where you can but it should be kept at that leave until such time as it is decided that she and you for that matter are ready to progress further!

Just food for thought here. She is a stranger to you, even though you have known her for 6 years. She is a stranger to herself right now, and how she will deal with things is any ones guess. You slow the train down by putting your agenda aside, and keep your eyes and options open. See her with objective eyes, and decide what's real in what she does and what's BS. She has a long road ahead and as hard as it, is this is her road, and you are not a knight in shining armor.

How on earth does a guy who sends emails of his junk and propositions her for sex get her email to begin with?

I completely understand what you are getting at, but from my experience of her, and from what she has told me, it's not quite what you may think. Her ex visited this one bar with her frequently (a bar I've been to once or twice -- hated it), and there were strange cats there (as you might expect). She was "acquainted" with various strangers through him. One of them was more than a vague stranger, but is just some one she talks to occasionally on the phone. This guy gave her phone number and email to some other guy (the quasi-stalker) who she apparently had met before but didn't know. Because of the crowd her ex hung around, I can easily see this being the case. That and the fact that she doesn't really have much of a "history" outside of that relationship, as far as the outside world goes.

I don't know. She has to turn down and walk away from propositioning men all the time. That's what good-looking women have to deal with. I see it when I'm out and about with her -- they wait until they think I'm not around, and leave quickly when I "show up." All I have to do is turn to get some drinks or I'm coming back from the restroom. I can tell she's not asking for it, and the other girls that often are with us confirm it. Her ex's friends were a cracked and unhealthy bunch. I told her she should probably cut this guy off, because he has been so careless with her personal info. She understands that.

I'm not spinning excuses for her. I'm saying what I've seen. She's actually pretty shy. It doesn't really seem like the "attention" is pleasing to her. It upsets her. She was happy when I staid until the end of her shift. If you knew the shopping center we work at, you might understand, even though it's not exactly a rough area normally. A few nights ago, the local Pizza Hut in the center hosted a quite mad homeless guy waving a knife at customers. That's freaked out many of the women in the shops, including her.

As for the night in armor comment, I said that because she may see me that way at this point, not because I see myself that way. I'm trying not to be, really, but I feel like I'm throwing her to the wolves by not being there like that -- especially with all the crazies around right now.

God. Now that I've had a chance to sit down and process it, it sounds like a mad little psychodrama spun out of daytime TV...

As for the night in armor comment, I said that because she may see me that way at this point, not because I see myself that way. I'm trying not to be, really, but I feel like I'm throwing her to the wolves by not being there like that -- especially with all the crazies around right now.

God. Now that I've had a chance to sit down and process it, it sounds like a mad little psychodrama spun out of daytime TV...
You're a good guy, trying to do right by a friend who has a huge burden to carry and a long road of recovery to travel. Do your best to get her started on that road. Does she realize that she needs professional help? If not, it's likely to be an even longer and rockier road.

She fully realizes she needs help, and she is sort of in counseling. After the breakup, the judge ordered the ex into a program, and while I haven't asked, I believe he ordered (or heavily suggested) that she get into a program as well. But it seems like one of those cheap charity jobs where you mostly do work on the Net. She tells me about emails and worksheets.

She doesn't go to a face-to-face support group. My working assumption is that a support group would be better. I'm sure there must be churches or schools where such groups meet, possibly for free.

So here's what I'm thinking so far:


Tell her how I feel about her
Tell her that it's too soon
Tell her that she needs more help than just me
Tell her that we can maybe visit this again on the other side of six months
Pray I'm not throwing daggers at my own heart
Hope I don't get sick over it


Is that even in the right order? I'm thinking of praying and getting sick first... :) :(

Sounds brave.
Good job.
Not easy I know.

You might want to consider making #3 into #1.
I know you want this girl, but all empirical evidence is that the pain you feel now
Is going to be an ant hill compared to the volcano you will feel if you don't step back for... closer to a year. She is damaged goods. Love is a powerful thing. But if it's real, you owe yourself that. I know it sounds IMPOSSIBLE. And it IS valentine's day. But this time next year, you may be glad you waited. You may even be with someone else.

Ps - I know you want to shed your clothes and go for it, but it doesn't sound like you are in any state to do that.
This isn't a one night stand. It's 6 years of foreplay - that you're STILL not sure about... you could be right back here in 6 weeks if you could handle it.
Trust your gut. May the force be with you.

I agree with ordinaryguy. You are a good guy. A real good guy. You have showed great qualities in what you have done so far and it is easy to see you are a smart and level headed thinker.

Even the fact that your seeking advice about whether to get into a relationship with this women shows a lot about yourself. A lot of men would just rudsh head long into it and not care about the possible ramifications. You obviously do, which is great, but I think therein lies your answer.

For you to have to ask the question of whether it is wise or not to get further involved with this women tells me that it clearly isn't. If it was you would not find a need to ask. But you do see a need and I think the need is quite justifiable.

I think you have a lot of good advice from people here and I hope you think long and hard about your next move.

Im sure you will because as we have said it appears that you are a good guy!

Let me just say... Waiting is all well and good and it sounds like it's probably the best bet, considering your situation and considering you REALLY like this girl (is it crazy to say that you're sort of in love with her?). That said, do not cut your nose off to spite your face! There is a lot to be said for taking action and showing an indecisive nature can be a killer when it comes to romance.

Romance is not thought out - it's gut instinct! Now, you can temper that with wisdom... In fact, you should. But remember that she needs to know how much you care and care about her specifically.

If she knows how to appreciate somebody, and has been waiting for this as long as it appears, then she'll know what to do from there.

I don't know. I've never been much for waiting, so consider me the devil's advocate for impulse.

Let me just say... Waiting is all well and good and it sounds like it's probably the best bet, considering your situation and considering you REALLY like this girl (is it crazy to say that you're sort of in love with her?). That said, do not cut your nose off to spite your face! There is a lot to be said for taking action and showing an indecisive nature can be a killer when it comes to romance.

Romance is not thought out - it's gut instinct! Now, you can temper that with wisdom... In fact, you should. But remember that she needs to know how much you care and care about her specifically.

If she knows how to appreciate somebody, and has been waiting for this as long as it appears, then she'll know what to do from there.

I don't know. I've never been much for waiting, so consider me the devil's advocate for impulse.

Does this logic also apply to a female you like who has had her azz kicked constantly for 6 years?

It worked out better than I thought it might. But you never know. I'm a guy, and being so I have a poor head for dates. She bamboozled me into going out with her on Valentines Day. I agreed without thinking about the holiday! Level headed? Maybe, but also a bit gullible. But it wasn't so bad. I kept her mind off her ex, and found out she's seeing a real live therapist face to face. The therapist told her to try some mild flirting to see how it felt. She was uncomfortable, as the therapist suspected she would be. The therapist told her it would be a while before flirting would be comfortable for her, and it wouldn't be time to start dating (much less a relationship) until it was very comfortable. She gets that and accepts it. I'm overjoyed at this. I said I'd be there, and so would the rest of my friends. I told her that I was weak, not stupid: if she was still having dreams about me after she and her therapist both came to the conclusion that she was ready, she'd have me in a snap -- but not before.

After discussing her dreams, she said she was embarrassed by them. I told her she couldn't embarrass me and,

Me: "I think I'm pretty hot." Cheesy grin.
Her: "Well, you are attractive."
Me: "See? Even the ladies agree..."
We laughed, and there was no tension.

PS: Starbucks is the devil. I'm pretty sure they spike their drinks with extra caffeine at the end of the night just to make it impossible for their customers to go to sleep. I'm wired.

You sound like you're walking on air, man. Whatever you're doing it's probably best to keep it going.

Glad you had a good V-Day. On your terms...

Thanks, folks. I appreciated the advice. Now I'm trying to figure out how to keep this thing on a low simmer until she's ready without it going completely cold. It would be all too easy to kill it dead or turn it hot; I don't want to do either.