I have absolutely no problem with porn. Growing up, I watched it daily. So I used to love porn. But when I'm with someone, I try to give them my all. I know most of us are going to have sexual thoughts about someone else other than our significant other and we all masturbate, but when I'm in a relationship with someone I feel like we should both try to limit those activities. You know, self-control type thing. I can separate love and sex, just like a man can, so I understand the whole "I like looking thing." However, I am still absolutely against my significant other watching porn. I don't care if he masturbates while fantasizing about another chick, but I feel like porn is just one more uneccessary step above that. You do not HAVE to look at porn. You can control yourself.

Because, let's be honest here, when you watch porn, you ARE fantasizing about being with that person on the screen. It's a lot more real than "watching" something in your head because there is an actual physical girl you are watching. No, you can't touch her, but you are watching AND imagining vs. Just imagining(like when you masturbate without porn). I understand porn is awesome: naked chicks, naked dudes just having great sex doing sexy things. But why can't you just watch porn w/your significant other rather than alone? And when you do masturbate, why do you have to watch porn? Answer- you don't. You just WANT to. Also, I do believe that porn sets unrealistic expectations of what a woman should look like. Those girls don't even look the same in real life! Everyone looks better on camera when they position you/the camera so you look your best. And don't give me that crap about how men have 2 views- one of you then one of other women. That is the worst excuse/justification I have ever heard: "Don't worry babe I love you I just want to watch these 2 girls get rammed in the a**. It has nothing to do with you, it's just these girls are so hot." Sorry, I just feel like that's not OK. Fantasize it in your head, but don't watch it.

My question is- would any guy honestly give up porn for his wife or girlfriend if it bothered her and really hurt her feelings? Or would he just continue to watch but find a way to hide it?

*Note: this does not have anything to do with other people's relationships. I understand some people in relationships watch porn separate/together/whatever. Everyone has different opinions/ideas about it.

No I won't... because I don't ask them to give up chick flicks, romance novels or girl movies.

And YES it IS the same thing.

If she is that messed up that her feelings are hurt over a picture, magazine or movie... then she has bigger issues that she needs to be dealing with.

Personally she would never have made it far enough to become a wife candidate... I would have gotten rid of her.

Lifes hard enough without dealing with a significant other that has serious personal issues with inanimate things.

Its really no different than them demanding you only work for someone that has NO female employees or female customers because heaven forbid another female cross your field of vision.

And it all boils down to this... her rights END where his begin... and that applies vice-versa as well.

Don't try to tell someone else what to do unless you are completely willing to do what they tell you to do as well.

There would be a lot less divorce if more people practiced THAT simple rule.

Because, let's be honest here, when you watch porn, you ARE fantasizing about being with that person on the screen. It's a lot more real than "watching" something in your head because there is an actual physical girl you are watching. No, you can't touch her, but you are watching AND imagining vs. Just imagining(like when you masturbate without porn). .


My answer - as a woman - I wouldn't DREAM of asking my partner to "give up porn" for me. Why would I?

I don't buy your "honest" argument that when people watch porn they fantasize about being with that person. Those are your thoughts, not mine.

Frankly your question does have 'everything' to do with other people's relationships. It is their relationships you are asking about when you pose the question: Are there any guys who would give up porn for their wives/gfs? You are asking point blank what people (men, in particular) would do in their relationships.

As a girlfriend and, for over twenty-five years, wife, I wouldn't ask.

Remember that porn isn't just videos. It has existed for millennia in a variety of forms ranging from pictures painted on 'paper' or walls to words and statues. Can one person ask another to totally ignore every form of porn or erotica there is?

You seem to equate videos with immediate masturbation. What if your partner doesn't masturbate while watching 'porn' but waits until later? What if your partner is more into magazines or stories? How much control do you think one partner should have of another partner's thoughts?

It is totally unfair to ask, and any women ( or man) in a relationship should love their partner enough and understand it is not always about them and their partners will have time to dream and imagine many things.

To ask your partner to give up something they do, is not right, fair or should be considered.

A partner that asks that, frankly gets what they deserve, normally to be lied to, and end up fighting with the person does not. Or at worst they end up finding a new partner when that one leaves.

LMAO! You know what? Im soooo sick and sick and sick of men using porn as a excuse. They don't need it. They want it. Any real man that loves his wife or girlfriend, will give it up to save their relationship. Guys can't even give a real GOOD reason why they do it. Its only for their satisfaction. They not thinking about their wife or girlfriend while watching porn, in that case, why don't they just wake their wife up or wait until she gets off work? My point exactly.. They don't care, they just want to look at nasty, trashless, animals. These porn girls are the worst things that's walking the earth. No women should be little her body to please men. Lol, men think we suppose to be OK with this.. Like hell we do. What if the shoe was on the other foot, they would call us all kind of names. I hope porn is not worth lossing the person your in a relationship with. If so, you're a weak minded individual..! Its sad how satan got some of these men mind and playing tricks on them. There stupid for letting a porn video come in between what they really have at home. Get it together men, your being fooled, lol

Whether a guy is willing to give up porn or not is up to him to decide, if he feels that he wants to prove his love my quitting porn and focusing on the relationship, then you as the partner will have to accommodate for it. Since porn not only allows men to fantasize about sex but it also helps them to forms of stress in doing so, and if you want him to quit then you need to be ready to help make up for it. Otherwise he would turn back to it, just asking to him won't make him quit, it could make him just hide it from you.
Even if its seems unfair to women in relationships they shouldn't be asked to stop doing something they been doing for practically all their lives... what if your boyfriend said to you, 'you're not allowed to go shopping', 'your not allowed talk to your best friend'? Would you listen?

My wife does it for me. I tied her to the bed and plowed her like winter street. I did that again a few times afterwards too. This morning I wanked to porn. We were also using toys. Does that fall into your category of the man just not doing it for the woman?

I just want to rant and rave, and I probably will, about how wrong you are. I probably will. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I honestly heard it best said, "Modern media has created the most sexually frustrated generation yet. All women are looking for their Prince Charming and all men are looking for their porn stars."

Ignorance on the other hand, not quite that acceptable. I see what is happening here. You're equating how a woman feels and reacts with how a man does. This is completely wrong. Apples and oranges love.

Read a romance novel and you get hot and bothered by the romance and the heaving bosom, and feelings, and the emotions, and the tender way he... well you get the picture. You probably have. How does a man get hot a bothered. Boobs. Well bottoms too depending. Honestly. It is a completely different arousal cycle.

Next when we are choking the chicken, we tend to use a seed of fantasy to get it going. There is nothing sexy about the thought of your hand going up and down your own shaft. But using that thought and arousal does. Would we want to have sex with them? Probably not. I don't want a thin silicone woman. Nor a midget. Nor a Oriential woman (no offense not my kink). Nor a Shemale. Nor Angelia Jolie dressed in Nazi BSDM gear. Well.. that last one... No. I want to have sex with my wife. Exclusively. Doesn't mean I don't like watching porn, nor her watchign it with me. Honestly it was a little weird.

It is scratching an itch for us. There isn't really anything else for it. It is like a bubble bath or however you relax.

Now you told me that you're both in school. Holding down jobs. You're young. You will learn that most men look at porn even when they say they don't. All men masturbate to porn, even if they say they don't. You can either accept it or life a sexually frustrated life jumping from failed relationship to failed relationship. I challenge you to ask your boyfriend about porn. Watch him squirm.

This is about the end of the energy I have to waste on this. Expand your mind. It works best when opened. Kind of like a parachute.

[QUOTE=CravenMorhead;3322520]My wife does it for me. I tied her to the bed and plowed her like winter street. I did that again a few times aIfterwards too. This morning I wanked to porn. We were also using toys. Does that fall into your category of the man just not doing it for the woman?

I just want to rant and rave, and I probably will, about how wrong you are. I probably will. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I honestly heard it best said, "Modern media has created the most sexually frustrated generation yet. All women are looking for their Prince Charming and all men are looking for their porn stars."

Ignorance on the other hand, not quite that acceptable. I see what is happening here. You're equating how a woman feels and reacts with how a man does. This is completely wrong. Apples and oranges love.

Read a romance novel and you get hot and bothered by the romance and the heaving bosom, and feelings, and the emotions, and the tender way he... well you get the picture. You probably have. How does a man get hot a bothered. Boobs. Well bottoms too depending. Honestly. It is a completely different arousal cycle.

Next when we are choking the chicken, we tend to use a seed of fantasy to get it going. There is nothing sexy about the thought of your hand going up and down your own shaft. But using that thought and arousal does. Would we want to have sex with them? Probably not. I don't want a thin silicone woman. Nor a midget. Nor a Oriential woman (no offense not my kink). Nor a Shemale. Nor Angelia Jolie dressed in Nazi BSDM gear. Well.. that last one... No. I want to have sex with my wife. Exclusively. Doesn't mean I don't like watching porn, nor her watchign it with me. Honestly it was a little weird.

It is scratching an itch for us. There isn't really anything else for it. It is like a bubble bath or however you relax.

Now you told me that you're both in school. Holding down jobs. You're young. You will learn that most men look at porn even when they say they don't. All men masturbate to porn, even if they say they don't. You can either accept it or life a sexually frustrated life jumping from failed relationship to failed relationship. I challenge you to ask your boyfriend about porn. Watch him squirm.

This is about the end of the energy I have to waste on this. Expand your mind. It works best when opened. Kind of like a parachute.[/QUOTE


I have one question for you. Let's say you have a in house porn star , which would be your wife. She,will do just about everything in bed for you right. She also wants sex just as much as you do, she's very attractive in whatever she wear for you. Now, what would be a REAL reason you have to look at porn if you have a porn star at home?


Im not talking about the guys that's single and does it, that's understandable, even the men that have a girlfriend and a wife and their wife doesn't want sex a lot. Those are the guys I understand.

I have an alternate question for you:

Let's say you have a guy that does EVERYTHING for you. Brings you jewelry and flowers and sweet little gifts. He does dishes and laundry and dusts and vacuums. He's handy with tools and understands cars and computers. He writes you love notes and mails you cards and sends flowers to work and calls just to hear your voice.

Let's just say you HAVE that.

Are you willing to give up chick flicks for the rest of your life for that? Are you willing to never EVER watch another romantic comedy, because well... you have the hero of every romantic comedy at home waiting for you. And no more romance novels---and that freaking INCLUDES the stupid Twilight books and books like them. No more books where the love story is even as much as 1/3 of the plot. You are allowed to read non-fiction and hard core sci-fi for your stories going forward.

Would you give that up for a GUY? Would you give up all of that stuff that stimulates your imagination just because a guy asked you to, and well... he's a pretty awesome guy?

The hell you would. Don't even TRY to say you would, because I totally wouldn't buy it.

THAT is what porn is to guys. It's a little seed of imagination. It has NOTHING to do with his relationship, or sexual urges or anything else that you're insinuating it holds over a relationship. It's for entertainment purposes only. Just like you don't expect your boyfriend to be Peter Parker saving the world and giving sexy upside down kisses, but GAWD that was hot to watch, guys don't expect you to be (am I dating myself here?) Traci Lourdes. Or Jenna Jamison.

The ONLY women I have EVER met that have an issue with their man watching porn---EVERY ONE of them had an insecurity streak a mile wide.

So... how confident are you? The more confident you are, the less porn matters.

It doesn't matter ALL men are ENTITLED to it due to the nature they are ADULTS and not the slave of someone with personal problems they aren't willing to deal with. (and conversely all adult women reversing those roles)

And just an FYI... there is nothing less attractive than a woman that blames every self perceived flaw on someone else.

I'd rather have an average looking woman who is well adjusted than a beauty Queen with more problems than a $100 used car.

And I have actually made that choice numerous times over the decades... I got married to a good looking woman who didn't have problems she blamed on others... and I did that over 20 years ago... She's in her late 40's now and I'd never trade her in on a 20 something drama Queen...

I have an alternate question for you:

Let's say you have a guy that do.es EVERYTHING for you. Brings you jewelry and flowers and sweet little gifts. He does dishes and laundry and dusts and vacuums. He's handy with tools and understands cars and computers. He writes you love notes and mails you cards and sends flowers to work and calls just to hear your voice.

Let's just say you HAVE that.

Are you willing to give up chick flicks for the rest of your life for that? Are you willing to never EVER watch another romantic comedy, because well...you have the hero of every romantic comedy at home waiting for you. And no more romance novels---and that freaking INCLUDES the stupid Twilight books and books like them. No more books where the love story is even as much as 1/3 of the plot. You are allowed to read non-fiction and hard core sci-fi for your stories going forward.

Would you give that up for a GUY? Would you give up all of that stuff that stimulates your imagination just because a guy asked you to, and well...he's a pretty awesome guy?

The hell you would. Don't even TRY to say you would, because I totally wouldn't buy it.

THAT is what porn is to guys. It's a little seed of imagination. It has NOTHING to do with his relationship, or sexual urges or anything else that you're insinuating it holds over a relationship. It's for entertainment purposes only. Just like you don't expect your boyfriend to be Peter Parker saving the world and giving sexy upside down kisses, but GAWD that was hot to watch, guys don't expect you to be (am I dating myself here?) Traci Lourdes. Or Jenna Jamison.

The ONLY women I have EVER met that have an issue with their man watching porn---EVERY ONE of them had an insecurity streak a mile wide.

So....how confident are you? The more confident you are, the less porn matters.



I see what your saying.. I personally feel that there really no need for porn. I mean if your watching something you fantasize about, why don't you make that fantasy a reality? I mean, people waste years fantasizing about something they would like to do, but never do it. How about you make it happen and find out, that is wasn't what you thought if would be the whole time. Some people make it a reality, and mess up their homes. Its so many people that break up from their spouse watching porn, now,if it was something good to do, why is it breaking up homes?? Porn can lead people to cheat, because they are looking for what they can't get at home. Now, is porn REALLY that serious to some guys?

It doesn't matter ALL men are ENTITLED to it due to the nature they are ADULTS and not the slave of someone with personal problems they aren't willing to deal with. (and conversely all adult women reversing those roles)

And just an FYI....there is nothing less attractive than a woman that blames every self perceived flaw on someone else.

I'd rather have an average looking woman who is well adjusted than a beauty Queen with more problems than a $100 used car.

And I have actually made that choice numerous times over the decades....I got married to a good looking woman who didn't have problems she blamed on others....and I did that over 20 years ago...She's in her late 40's now and I'd never trade her in on a 20 something drama Queen.....



Well, Im am VERY BEAUTIFUL!! A drama queen is never me. I have a opinion just like you. To me porn is just away for men and women to look at other naked people and get off. People watch porn, and don't even realize they could be watching someone that's dead. They watching someone that they wouldn't be able to get alone with in real life. So I'm leaving it on that note.

I watch porn occasionally and I'm a married female. I have never actually fantasized about being with anyone in the porno. It just arouses me while I watch it. It helps facilitate the masturbation process. That's it. You're thinking porn is much more than it really is!

If this is how you act towards guys, you're going to miss out on a great relationship. Or he's going to end up having to lie to you because you're so psycho about porn. And eventually he won't put up with your insecurities anymore.

99% of guys watch it, and plenty of women too. Loving, wonderful, amazing, loyal men watch it. They can have the hottest woman as a wife who is amazing in bed and fulfills every fantasy and they are 100% satisfied. But they still occasionally masturbate to porn. They don't watch porn because they aren't satisfied with what they have. They just get horny occasionally and if you aren't available they want to take care of that urge real quick. Watching naked people have sex causes an automatic arousal response and you jack off and you're done! It doesn't mean a damn thing to them.

Have you ever watched it? And I don't mean just look at it closed minded and think eww gross or ew they are such sluts! Like actually look for something you might like. Maybe it has a story to it. Or whatever gets you aroused. Well if you are ever open to watching, notice if you end up fantasizing about anybody you're watching. I highly doubt it. It just gets you aroused and helps you orgasm. That's it.

Well, Im am VERY BEAUTIFUL!!! A drama queen is never me. I have a opinion just like you. To me porn is just away for men and women to look at other naked people and get off. People watch porn, and don't even realize they could be watching someone that's dead. They watching someone that they wouldn't be able to get alone with in real life. So im leaving it on that note.

DO you watch Brad Pitt movies... George Cloney movies... John Statham movies... etc.. (pick your favorite male actor)..

If you say you do but feel absolutely nothing then you are telling a lie or in denial of the reality.

Then by your own definition you should never have to watch TV.. or read a woman's novel ever again for the rest of your life. Otherwise you are being a hypocrite.

And your young age reflects very heavily in this... as well as your very limited real life experience. This "I should be enough" mindset is more like a teenagers than a mature adult. For a number of reasons the first of which is it makes the other person feel suffocated... and that gets worse.. not better with time until that other person developes a resentment and leaves. As a teen it might have been cute... as an adult its annoying as all hell. At least to most people. Most people get over that before they hit their mid 20's because they have had enough people walk out on them by then.

I see what your saying....! I personally feel that there really no need for porn. I mean if your watching something you fantasize about, why don't you make that fantasy a reality? I mean, people waste years fantasizing about something they would like to do, but never do it. How about you make it happen and find out, that is wasn't what you thought if would be the whole time. Some people make it a reality, and mess up their homes. Its so many people that break up from their spouse watching porn, now,if it was something good to do, why is it breaking up homes??? Porn can lead people to cheat, because they are looking for what they can't get at home. Now, is porn REALLY that serious to some guys?

Some people break up marriages because they drink too much--is ALCOHOL to blame for that?

Others break up their marriage because they can't stay away from the casino--is GAMBLING to blame?

Still others spend their way into problems with their marriage--is SHOPPING to blame?

Blaming porn for lack of self control is like blaming a spoon because you're fat.

I have one question for you. Let's say you have a in house porn star , which would be your wife. She,will do just about everything in bed for you right. She also wants sex just as much as you do, she's very attractive in whatever she wear for you. Now, what would be a REAL reason you have to look at porn if you have a porn star at home?

Because my wife is in school and working? Because she's not just a spooge receptical? And relationships just aren't about sex?

Mostly because when we masturbate it is all about us. Goodness knows I like to have sex with my wife. I think she's gorgeous. I love the way... You get the idea. The thing is with masturbation is that it is all about me. I don't need to worry about anything else. Like if she's in the mood. Is she tired? Is she wet enough? Do I need the restraints? Is the vibrator charged? Is my clean? Do I smell? Does she smell? Do I have condoms? etc. ad naesum.

For men it is all about the personal experience. The Alone time. Where none of the above matter and you can just take care of business. Making love is awesome, but masturbation is when you can do it all on your own and by yourself.

So having a porn star wife, and most porn stars have more silicone in them than my computer and that is a HUGE turn off for me, is all fine and good, but if I have to wake up two hours before her and I am a little horny, i.e. this past Monday, I turn on the pron and rub one off. Sometimes it is a little awkward because I feel like our dog is judging me.



Im not talking about the guys that's single and does it, that's understandable, even the men that have a gf and a wife and their wife doesn't want sex alot. Those are the guys I understand.

I have a question for you. Did you ask your boyfriend if he watches porn? He is going to say no, but what was his reaction?

Yourself righteous rant is amusing but short sighted. This will come with experience.

I see what your saying....! I personally feel that there really no need for porn. I mean if your watching something you fantasize about, why don't you make that fantasy a reality? I mean, people waste years fantasizing about something they would like to do, but never do it. How about you make it happen and find out, that is wasn't what you thought if would be the whole time.

Because my wife won't take it up the bum. My wife isn't a midget, nor asian, nor black, nor east indian, nor 60+, nor barely legal, nor an anthropomorphic wolf furry, nor an innocent looking 20 something taking on three big black... I hope you get the idea.

Why stay with a strawberry fantasy when you can sample all of baskin and robin's 52 flavours. Porn is the seed of Fantasy and it has been around for a lot longer than you think. I can guarantee you that the third or forth thing that was caught by a camera or movie camera involved porn of some variety. Have you seen silver screen silent movie porn? It is fun!

It is a fantasy and imagination. The mind, regardless of the existence of porn, will create that. It might be that waitress who bent over to grab your buddies plate at lunch and you could see down her shirt. Porn or not he might rub one off imagining what could be done further here.


Some people make it a reality, and mess up their homes. Its so many people that break up from their spouse watching porn, now,if it was something good to do, why is it breaking up homes??? Porn can lead people to cheat, because they are looking for what they can't get at home. Now, is porn REALLY that serious to some guys?

This is not porn's fault it is a relationial problem. It is a lack of communication. It is not discussing something before acting. It is the, as soomthy so correctly said, insecurities on one side or another manifesting.

I take serious offence to the assertion that Porn leads to cheating. Cheating leads to cheatint. Porn leads to crunchy socks and waste baskets full of kleenexes. Porn, if anything, stems cheating because they can get that little bit of fantasy without having to go out.

Cheating is usually indicative of other more serious problems in the relationship.

This isn't to say that there haven't been relationships that failed because of porn. Porn is like anything else, consume too much and it will start affecting your life. Just like Drugs, Alcohol, and World of Warcraft. It is moderation that is the key.

Where did you come up with your ideas here? How old are you?

Seeker,

The answer is quite simple. If one has become addicted to porn they will have to seek help to subdue this urge... or go through the self mental training and torture to overcome your physical being.

I believe it can be done. But is will be very difficult to achieve. If you are in a long distance relationship it will be even harder to stop watching porn. However... if you love the person and that person.. comes to you and says... would you please stop watching porn:

Let the challenge of the mind begin. It will be the hardest thing you ever had to do. No pun intended.I do believe the human concept of love will prevail.

Guardian

I see what your saying....! I personally feel that there really no need for porn. I mean if your watching something you fantasize about, why don't you make that fantasy a reality? I mean, people waste years fantasizing about something they would like to do, but never do it. How about you make it happen and find out, that is wasn't what you thought if would be the whole time. Some people make it a reality, and mess up their homes. Its so many people that break up from their spouse watching porn, now,if it was something good to do, why is it breaking up homes??? Porn can lead people to cheat, because they are looking for what they can't get at home. Now, is porn REALLY that serious to some guys?

Why don't you watch it with him? I love watching porn, I rather enjoy masterbating to something real vs just using my imagination, it turns me on more. I wish my boyfriend was more open to watching it with me, but I'm a lot more sexually adventurous than he is, though, as a woman, you can learn a lot of really great things from porn, and when I watch porn I don't do much get off to the men in it, as much as I do the situation they're portraying. I like to think men do the same sometimes, but that's what eases my mind because I know my man watches it too, so long as he comes to me at the end of the day and no one else, who really cares? After all, I can imagine being with the hottie nextdoor or the cute guy at the mall as well;) change your perspective sweetheart, its really not that bad.

Yes I would. Only for the right person though. And keep in mind, that it is very very difficult for guys to see this from your perspective. They just plain think about it differently than you. It is hard for us to understand how this realistically hurts you.

Yes I would. Only for the right person though. And keep in mind, that it is very very difficult for guys to see this from your perspective. They just plain think about it differently than you. It is hard for us to understand how this realistically hurts you.

I've got to ask how old are you? Because being asked to give something up to keep another person from facing their personal issues is no different than asking them to give up their friends because you don't like them.

Eventually you are going to come to terms with the fact someone demanded you give up something you have a right to enjoy.

Would you give up all sports because SHE doesn't like them... would SHE give up girly shows because you don't like them?

The only thing that should be "given up" is dateing and sleeping with other people...

I know most people if they were pressured into giving anything up... as minor as they may have been before.. will become a greater and greater point of discontent.

THere is a huge difference between giving something up because you wanted to (your idea and choice)... and giving it up because you were asked or pressured to.

E.G. If I was forbidden from drinking beer... and I don't drink much beer but if someone told me I couldn't I'd begin to WANT to drink a lot more beer.

And what might seem reasonible to a 20 year old will not be nearly as reasonible to a 30, 40 or even 50 year old... who understands the rights and privledges that come with being an adult... and how precious every last one of them are.

I don’t know that people’s problems with porn always stem from pre-existing insecurities. I think porn might actually cause insecurities to develop. If your partner is frequently sexually fantasizing about someone else or other people that look nothing like you, be they on a screen or on the street, it can cause you to consider yourself inadequate in ways you never did before. If your wife is constantly checking out men that have a muscular build while you have a slight build, you wouldn’t think that maybe she’d be more attracted to you if you started lifting weights? If your husband were always looking at redheads or commenting on how sexy red hair is, you wouldn’t consider dying your hair? You may have never even considered your natural attributes to be flawed, but finding out that your partner finds something else very attractive could make you insecure about yourself in ways you never were before.

Also, there are plenty of individuals on this site alone who complain about their partner’s porn use not because or only because it makes them feel inadequate, but because there’s a sexual imbalance in the relationship. When one partner feels like they are not getting enough sex while the other partner is regularly masturbating, that can be hurtful and frustrating. No insecurities required, just a normal desire for sex. I think frustration is maybe misdirected at porn when really it should be directed at the partner who is perhaps being selfish or neglectful.

All relationships require some sacrifice, some compromise from the individuals involved. People have entitlements as adults sure, but we also need to enter into relationships willing to give a little. You can’t force someone to do something. That is impossible. Even with a gun to his/her head, a person is still never forced to do something. There’s just a point where he/she submits. You can, however, choose to give up things in a relationship, make big changes because your partner asked you to. I don’t think it’s wrong to at least discuss or ask. In fact, I think it represents good communication to talk rather than bottle things up. I don’t think we should try to force changes on our partners, but I also don’t think we should enter into relationships expecting to stay on our own little islands and have everything go the way we want. That applies to both partners.

There is a huge difference between sacrifice and accommodation... it takes age and life experience to see they are not at all alike.

TO a young person... they think nothing about thinking the OTHER person should have to give soemething up for them... (odd that they rarely feel this way when THEY are asked to give something up).

Demanding the other person give something up is a futile attempt to change the other person... (which never works) because it also takes sufficient life experience to understand people and their nature.. to know that people only change when THEY want to change... and even then it usually requires a near death experience to do it...

Once you have developed enough maturity you understand when you pick someone you accept them WITH all their flaws... or you find someone with flaws you can live with... and everyone has flaws.

You aren't building a street rod... where you pick of a junker and work out its flaws into what you want... a person is a living thing.. and their flaws are part of their character. And they aren't for you or anyone else to decide to fix. The sole exceptions being criminal activity of any kind, or substance abuse.

I bet the people that advocate changing someone else would not be so gung ho about someone else changing them to what fits that persons ideal.

He asked me to give up coffee so we could save a little more money, I did. He asked me to move to a different state, far from my family and give up a good job offer so that he could pursue his goals and I did. When his father recently became ill, I sacrificed quite a bit of time, money, effort to care for him. He asked and I did. In order to minimize my debt, I asked for his help paying my tuition and he agreed. We do these things because we think they're better for us, for our relationship. I believe the things we've done and given up represent sacrifices, not just accommodations.

Okay, backpack, you got me.

If my husband asked me to give up coffee so that we could save money, you'd better bet that we'd either given up EVERYTHING else to drink except water, and that we didn't have cable, cell phones, internet, and had pawned all of our music and movies.

And if I guy felt about porn the way I feel about coffee... well, he can have it. I don't give a damn. It's not going to make me feel inadequate to not be a porn start because I trust that he loves me for a reason that isn't as superficial as my hair color or build.

If porn was costing him a lot of money it would be different... most people don't have metered internet... and internet usage is thus flat rate... no matter where you go and what you use it for.

I haven't paid a dime for porn since I got the internet, and I didn't before you could get it at home via BBS services which most times were also free... thats not saying there isn't a lot out there you CAN spend money on... I'm saying you can get almost everything you want and not spend a dime... 25 years ago it wasn't like that... but today it is.

Money isn't a legitimate excuse here on that topic.

Money is quantified work and effort. Money is a means to obtain comfort and happiness. Losing some can mean you have to do more work later and/or you must do without something that would add pleasure to your life. I'm sure he would like to use that tuition money for a nice vacation somewhere and I miss my coffee on a daily basis. Just because it's easier to rationalize, doesn't mean it isn't a legitimate sacrifice. And something doesn't have to have monetary cost for it to have other, more abstract costs.

But this discussion was about expecting someone to give up porn...

I don't disagree with you on the other things you just mentioned... thats part of daily life and living within your means.. And things like vacations are very intermitant in nature and not something free you might engoy several times a week...

I liked Hostess HoHo's... I liked them a lot... I didn't eat them very often because they would make me fat... not because I couldn't afford the indulgence...

Of course now I can't get any more HoHo's even if I wanted because they don't make them any more...

I'm sorry about the HoHo's.

But monetary cost is not the only reason you give up something. In truth, we could afford my coffee and it was something that I enjoyed every day. Not buying it, however, gives us a little more room in our budget, reducing the stress on us, and thus improving our relationship overall. Also, I listed other things I changed or gave up just because he wanted something badly enough to ask me to sacrifice for it. There were things we did that had pro's for him and had only con's for me (except for the pro of keeping a good relationship). Everyday people make difficult or big changes when issues arise in a relationship. What makes porn so different than other things, which can be much more important, that we give up for our partners?

I'm sorry about the HoHo's.

But monetary cost is not the only reason you give up something. In truth, we could afford my coffee and it was something that I enjoyed every day. Not buying it, however, gives us a little more room in our budget, reducing the stress on us, and thus improving our relationship overall. Also, I listed other things I changed or gave up just because he wanted something badly enough to ask me to sacrifice for it. There were things we did that had pro's for him and had only con's for me (except for the pro of keeping a good relationship). Everyday people make difficult or big changes when issues arise in a relationship. What makes porn so different than other things, which can be much more important, that we give up for our partners?
The very fact that it actually IS about one person demanding the other person stop something so the first person doesn't have to face a personal problem they have...

If HE had an irrational hatred of all hunky male actors... and you enjoyed some of the movies where a Hunky male actor might be in... its not less irrational for him to demand you never watch another movie with hunky male actors... than it is for the woman to demand he give up watching anything with another naked female in it some of whom are likely to be attractive too..

I'd say the same thing about a guy with that irrational hatred of Hunky male stars as I would about a woman with an irrational hatred of Porn. And that is get help for that problem because hiding from it isn't going to cure it. And curing it should be the goal... not avoidance.

I have two friends. Each are half of a couple. One is deathly allergic to strawberries and the other is deathly allergic to peanuts. Over the past year I travelled with the significant others' who aren't allergic to the aforementioned items. Each have given up the allergen that their mate was allergic to. On each trip each indulged in that allergen while they were away from their mate.

They've given up something for their spouse, and when they have a chance they indulge.

The problem with porn, and some would say the great advantage of it, is that it is everywhere. Subtle or not. Psychologically it is impossible to get rid of it all. They've tried to do that in the more conservative islamic countries with mixed results. For porn consumers, they've got an unlimited and easily acceptable supply. Most people, if they promise never to consume porn, will just be far more clever in their consumption of it. Private browsers, secret porn folders, nudie mags behind the furnace, and all that. They're not doing it out of disrespect for their mate but more out of a desire to consume it.

Many of the insecurities that seem to be caused by porn are ones that were there to begin with. They would've cropped up at some point. Say, sitting on a park bench with your chubby wife and checking out the fit and trim jogger that just ran by. It would spark the same feeling as if she were to find out that you were looking at mainstream porn. The more productive use of the mental resources would be spent on introspection and contemplation as to why you feel like that.

It isn't to say that all the porn issues are the woman's fault, but a lot of women have issues that aren't addressed. They come to a head and instead of figuring out what and why it is happening they'll blame it on the external source ignoring signs otherwise. It is easier for other people to be in the wrong than yourself. This often ignores the intimacy that is present in the relationship as well. The woman might not be perfect but she is in the eyes of her mate. He will look at other woman but he is committed to her.

I do realize that I am jumping around a little but I am trying to undemonize Porn.

There is always compromise but never expect someone to give up something wholly. That is setting you up for failure.

I'm not advocating demands, just saying that it's not so ridiculous to ask (as it often seems women are told they're wrong for even bringing the topic up). Maybe a discussion will only lead to lying if the person is ashamed of their porn use. And I think it is telling that so many men do lie about it. If I asked my partner to stop spending so much time looking at cars online, he'd look at me sideways and say why? He would certainly never lie about it or try to hide it. He would regard me as though I were crazy for that. If I asked him to stop spending so much time looking at other naked women, he probably would not even look at me at all out shame or embarrassment. In one scenario, he's been caught maybe wasting time, but not doing anything "bad." In the other scenario, he would feel as though he'd gotten caught doing something "wrong" and not just because I brought it up. If there really weren't some internal sense that something could be wrong with it, I don't think people would lie.

I also see a big difference between porn and romantic comedies (not so much romance novels which are essentially porn in text with a setup). I don't think I'm the only person who sees a big difference between the two as romantic comedies and chick flicks are plastered all over all channels of television at all hours while porn isn't. Also, I think in general romantic comedies are meant to make you think "aww" not "I really want to screw him right now." But, then again, I'm not into romantic comedies (too sappy and idealistic) so maybe I'm reading that wrong.

Insecurities arise initially because you are given some standard to compare yourself to and porn provides a sexual standard. I think it definitely brings out and enhances pre-existing insecurities for a lot of people but I also maintain that it can create them where they didn't exist before and maybe would never have existed. For example, how many people wax/shave their pubic hair because that's the fad in porn right now and that's what their partner expects or has grown to like from simple exposure. How many times would your partner have to masturbate to a particular type before you would start wondering if they wouldn't want you to be more like that? I've read blogs where large breasted women are upset to be so endowed because their partners are masturbating to small breasted women - counter to normally conveyed messages in society.

The reason I think this issue can be so problematic and is unique is because the emotions associated with it are so fundamental and run so deep while the topic itself is very personal. It's an area where you can easily get hurt and easily invade someone's space too much. I think it's entirely normal for people to be protective of something so intimate and fundamental in beginning and maintaining a strong romantic relationship.

And that's why you see this wrong.

Romantic books or movies... ARE the same thing to a woman's brain as porn is to the Male brain... Because women's brains do not think the same way mens brains think. And this is true at the genetic level... its instinctive and bred into the human condition from the earliest stages of human evolution.

Until you understand that difference... you aren't going to understand much else about men and women. And you will frequently find yourself at odds eventually in any relationship over a number of things. And they will happen... its not if but when.

Because the differences are far deeper than just boy parts and girl parts. And its way deeper than learned behaviours.

Guys are visual... we always have been, we always will be. Women aren't in the same way we are. And that's why Chick flicks are the way they are... and why Guy movies are the way they are...

Women respond better to the book version of romatic things... because they have to get their thought processes going to get in the mood.. before she's ready to go..

Show a guy some skin... and he's ready to go.

I'm not advocating demands, just saying that it's not so ridiculous to ask (as it often seems women are told they're wrong for even bringing the topic up). Maybe a discussion will only lead to lying if the person is ashamed of their porn use. And I think it is telling that so many men do lie about it. If I asked my partner to stop spending so much time looking at cars online, he'd look at me sideways and say why? He would certainly never lie about it or try to hide it. He would regard me as though I were crazy for that. If I asked him to stop spending so much time looking at other naked women, he probably would not even look at me at all out shame or embarassment. In one scenario, he's been caught maybe wasting time, but not doing anything "bad." In the other scenario, he would feel as though he'd gotten caught doing something "wrong" and not just because I brought it up. If there really weren't some internal sense that something could be wrong with it, I don't think people would lie.

You see men as a whole have been told ad nausea that we have to respect the feelings of women and all that crap. That whole equality thing. Looking up porn vs cars is also apples and oranges; one is taboo and the other one isn't.

Also, my wife doesn't mind me looking at porn, but I am respectful of it and don't look at it while she is in the room, around, or awake. It isn't so much that I am worried about her seeing it, it is more about what she will think when she sees what I am looking at. Some of the stuff I look at I don't really want her to know about. Sure I like Gilfs and furry porn, but I don't want to be judged by it. Nor do I really want her to think that I am unsatisfied with her when I am not. It is the entire, "Why are you looking when you have this right here?" argument. Answering, "Well you're not naked posing seductively for me." will get you slapped. Same with, "Do you mind if I objectify you and use you just as a sperm recepticle?". "I just want to use you for your naked body. Could you spread it a little more?" will probably just get you kicked to the couch.

Maybe being a little more honest would work, but it is taboo and can seriously affect your partner because of their own self-image and insecurities. Why should we honestly stop because of that?


I also see a big difference between porn and romantic comedies (not so much romance novels which are essentially porn in text with a setup). I don't think I'm the only person who sees a big difference between the two as romantic comedies and chick flicks are plastered all over all channels of television at all hours while porn isn't. Also, I think in general romantic comedies are meant to make you think "aww" not "I really want to screw him right now." But, then again, I'm not into romantic comedies (too sappy and idealistic) so maybe I'm reading that wrong.

Which is why you fail. Do you know the difference between the arousal cycles of men and women. Men don't get all aroused by that sappy crap. Or the literally achievements of trashy romance novels. They don't anything and are tedious for the most part. We suffer through the movies because more often than not we'll get laid afterwards.

The arousal cycle of a female is a lot more complex. It requires a lot of emotional involvement. You can just go up to a woman show her your junk and expect to get laid. It requires a lot of work to get her in the mood. Then she helps to get the guy in the mood by taking off her clothes.

Do you see the vast differences here? One is a purely physical response, the other is a physical response triggered by an emotional one. This is why you don't understand porn. I bet if you were to read the harlequin romance novels and compared the guy to your mate, you'd see some startling differences. Think about how turned on you get though reading those.

The male equivalent to those books are playboys. Always have been.


Insecurities arise initially because you are given some standard to compare yourself to and porn provides a sexual standard. I think it definitely brings out and enhances pre-existing insecurities for a lot of people but I also maintain that it can create them where they didn't exist before and maybe would never have existed. For example, how many people wax/shave their pubic hair because that's the fad in porn right now and that's what their partner expects or has grown to like from simple exposure. How many times would your partner have to masturbate to a particular type before you would start wondering if they wouldn't want you to be more like that? I've read blogs where large breasted women are upset to be so endowed because their partners are masturbating to small breasted women - counter to normally conveyed messages in society.

It is THEIR self-image issues and THEIR insecurities. That cause THEIR lack of trust in THEIR man. It is like thing that twiggy is a accurate model for weight management. There has been a lot of media that has enforced that you're only beautiful if you're doing this or that. There has been a growing movement for body positive where you look at and realize you're beautiful the way you are. Getting away from this. There are a lot of men who would take Kirstie Alley, or Oprah in their chubby days over Twiggy or any of the super thin models.

I suppose what I want to say is that the women should be more confident in themselves and their own self image. This includes their sexuality.

My wife is high on the BMI scale and caucasian. I masturbate to... pretty much everything. Midgets, barely legal, hairy, REALLY hairy, Indian, black, Asian, big boob, small, Milf, Gilf, Amateur, Furry, group, orgry, BSDM, and many others. Doesn't mean that when I want to make love I don't want my wife and just my wife.

Backpack,
I don't think most guys lie about watching porn. I think only the ones that know their wife/ girlfriend would get upset lie. Or lets say it's the first time the subject is being discussed and he knows his wife is insecure about that sort of thing (like if she's the type to get upset if he just looks at a hot girl walking by), then he might lie because he knows his wife just doesn't get it, and he wants to avoid an argument.

There can be issues with porn (like a guy addicted to it and he's neglecting his wife). And sure you could blame that on porn. But if porn didn't exist it's still very very likely that the husband would find something else to be engrossed in and still neglect his wife.

But anyway I think the men that lie about watching it are the ones who know their wife/ girlfriend either just don't "get it" (that it's literally only about getting his rocks off and nothing more). And/ or the wife is insecure about it.


Smoothy & Cravenmorhead,
I am totally with you. The one thing I don't fully get, is the whole romantic chick flick movies getting women in the mood. Maybe you are correct with most women? Maybe I'm different? But I can't remember even just once being aroused after watching one of those. I do watch those, but I'm pretty particular with which ones I'll watch. And I'll admit sometimes it makes me relate it to my own husband and appreciate his qualities/ feel warm and fuzzy about him. But my mind doesn't go any further then that.. I don't then get in the mood. Do women really tend to sleep with their guy right after seeing that kind of movie? Lol I'm pretty positive I've never done that.

But maybe I am wired a bit more like a guy? Cravenmorhead said if a guy flashed his junk at his girlfriend that doesn't do anything for her. I can see how that can be true. But for me personally, if my husband flashed his junk (if it was hard) then it would totally get me in the mood.
So I guess I'm trying to figure out if I think a lot different than most women, or maybe you don't realize what you are saying about the chick flicks/ romantic movies is a bit of an exaggeration?

I'm leaning towards I'm just different because everyone on here goes on (even the women) about how foreplay for a woman starts long before intercourse. Things like doing dishes, other chores, and I guess on top of that being extra sweet to her helps her get in the mood. That boggles my mind because to me foreplay is literally foreplay. Touching = foreplay for me, that's it. He could have not done any chores, played video games for hours, or we even had an argument earlier, or maybe he did do all the chores and been really sweet, but it literally doesn't make a difference one way or the other. As long as he is feeling me up before we have sex, that's the only thing that's foreplay for me.

Sorry if that seemed a bit off topic.

CravenMorhead, now you've got me curious about the "furry" porn! Lol I've watched shows about furries but I've never thought to look up that type of porn. Do they actually have sex or do they just hump each other over their costumes?


Well on a completely different note, Happy Thanksgiving everyone!! I hope everyone has a wonderful day! :-]

I understand that entire stereotype of 'women get turned on emotionally, men physically.' And I guess, maybe I'm missing something in that regard because that doesn't apply to me. Sure, I want to feel like he loves me but I hate 'chick flicks' and can't stand romance novels. In my mind, one is just idealistic crap and the other so stupid and trashy that I can only laugh at it. Neither of those two things has ever turned me on. I also don't get porn. I look at it and again, it does nothing for me. I feel like such a perve watching two people go at each other and can't help but think the entire time "what is so great about this?" What honestly does turn me on... the offer for real sex. Literally, if he comes in the door and says "I want it," I'm there and he knows that. My libido is sky high, always has been and he has never had to jump through hoops for me -- in fact, quite the opposite.

So, what I've said in other posts about a woman who is not getting enough sex saying to her partner "hey, why not go to the computer a little less often and come to me (with whatever fantasy you can cook up) a little more often" stems from personal experience - something everyone seems to be big fans of. I want it ALL the time. I have tons of enthusiasm and am totally willing to try whatever he wants, something I've told him many times. But for him it's often "okay, I guess" and he never seems to really be excited about it. I can't help but wonder. The major difference between the two of us with regard to our sexual experience is years and years of porn use on his end whereas that's not my bag, baby. Would he be more interested if all of these things were as "new" for him as they are for me? Can mere exposure change you in ways you might be entirely unaware of?

I don't think having a different perspective qualifies as failing. It just simply is what it is, a different perspective. I advocate real sex and think whatever you can do to make it better and make it happen more often, is a good thing. And for some couples, maybe many, reducing or even eliminating porn use could be a great thing they honestly never even thought to try. But, before many people would give that idea a second thought, there has to be someone who says "just because you have a right to do something, doesn't mean it's what you should be doing/doesn't mean it will give you the best outcome." So, communication is good, even if it's something you would rather not talk about. Asking never hurts, as long as you're prepared for a no. Porn is not all good for all people - like anything else you consume. Some stereotypes are dated and/or inaccurate. And I would take an all too short quickie with my partner over great imaginary or virtual sex any day.