What is the 'signs' that you are an ugly/unattractive woman? At least in men's eyes. They always say pretty girls don't have to do anything... how do you know if you are or not as a womaN? I guess if no one ever wanted u that must mean u are an ugly duckling, right? Ty

Short and sweet really.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

That's it.
There really is nothing to be gained by over analysing things like this as you'll simply tie yourself up in knots..

Easy for u to say not to get over analytical about it. But if no body wants you then maybe you think differently, I bet you can't even imagine that... ther has to be some kind of 'measure' though to know if you're ugly or not. Maybe you just don't want to say.

There is NO "measure" of beauty, it's all about perception.

So how do you think I look with only ONE eye!

So don't jump to conclusions before you understand who you are talking too.
If you want help, then fine, but if you are simply looking for a place to rant about your woes then you really need professional counselling.

Maybe it's not about your beauty, or lack thereof. Maybe it's about your attitude in life.

You can be dead drop gorgeous on the outside, but it's what is on the inside that counts.

A person can be hideous looking on the outside, but what is in her/his heart can be breathtaking to some people.

Normally beauty has nothing to do with your actual looks, it is how you think about yourself and more often your personality. I have a Walmart theory where I tell you go to sit for a hour or two at walmart and watch all the people, 400 lb ladies with breasts down past their waist, others to skinny I am afraid the wind will blow away.

Often finding a boyfriend or partner can be anything from attitude, to also unrealistic goals for a partner.

I suggest that no matter what your looks, there is someone who will love you, and see your beauty. The issue here is finding that person. Where are you looking, have you asked anyone out, or do you just go home and wonder why no one asks you out.


Next yes some people can be more attractive if they dress better, have the proper hair style, maybe change their hair color, use the correct make up.

Curleyben everything I say you writes off as a 'rant' and I really don't care. Just because I don't agrees with everything you are putting out there into the universe. People are allowed to disagree w/ you... how am I suppose to know you only have one eye? Why don't you get some 'professional counseling' if you want to talk about that because its not my issue, its yours... I was asking a question and that's what everyone else does on here.

HHV, you've hit the nail squarely on the head here.
You see I'm quite happy with my lot in life and I'm not looking for excuses or people to blame.
I have learnt to not take people at face value and to accept advice as and when it is offered. You, unfortunately, appear to be suffering from a large amount of self loathing and you're looking for others to blame rather than grabbing life by the balls and getting stuck in.
Life is NOT fair, it's a challenge, so live it to it's fullest extent.

Curlyben if u 'happy with your lot in life' good for you. Hats off... just like you don't likes it whenpeople judge you and jump to conclusion don't do it to others. You don't KNOW me from a hole in the wall so your 'assumptions' about what I think and why I think that way mean diddly squat at this point. And fyi I'm not 'blaming' anybody for anythign -- I was asking a question you answered so why not leave it at that instead of getting on your high horse and being all self righteous. I'm not interested take it elsewhere please.

ANYWAY:

If there's other peoples that have advice/info on how someone whould know if they are consider ugly I would like to hear it. Ty

HHV, I guess you'd rather wallow in your own self pity then do anything constructive about it. I'm not judging you but going from the indicators in your own posts.
It's a shame that your whole out look on life is so negative.
While pessimism has it's place and can be useful, you seem to find a twisted pleasure in playing the victim and using that to fuel your negative attitude.

I mentioned earlier about professional counselling and I truly believe that you need serious assistance. The path you are currently on is extremely self destructive and not conducive for any kind of healthy existence, no matter how dark.
It's about time you pulled yourself out of this morass you are in and focus all of your negative energies in bettering yourself.
NO ONE will do this for you unless you ASK for help.
You MUST acknowledge the issues before you can make any steps in successfully overcoming it.

Yea 'wallow in self pitty and not doing nothing constructive about it' too bad you don't know what I try and haven't tried at this point. Maybe I was DRIVEN to this point by constant failures never considered that did you? Either way it doesn't matter to me; I can feels as negative or down trodden as I want about my own life seeing as its mine. That's right I am MOSTLY negative about life and the things in it and you can assigns w/e labels you want to about that. I really don't care. Like I say before if you happy with your situation -- hats off to you. Everyone entitled to feel w/e ways they want in this world.

And FYI: again you don't know me or else you know I been in cbts therapy and medication for over a year and it's a bunch of worthless dribble so you see asking for 'serious professional help' doesn't always do squat. Again: if it work for you, good. That's you not me.

i been in cbts therapy and medication for over a year and its a bunch of worthless dribble so you see asking for 'serious professional help' doesnt always do squat. again: if it work for you, good. thats you not me.
I've used CBT with many of my clients and it has always worked. But then they were willing to cooperate with me and give it a fair try. Have you done that, given it a fair try -- or are you as negative with the therapist as you are here?

I said I DID Tries CBT therapy and it's a joke, everyone claiming it work well it didn't for me. There's 15 year olds have kids. Most my YOUNGER cousins is marry when people have wedding have to go by myself never have anyone to take. It's embarrassing I don't even go anymore just sends a gift in the mail. Sigh.so don't tell me not to be 'negative' on here they can shove it. Mayb their life is positive and great so what? Doesn't mean everyone else's is.

So what did you do with CBT?

w.g. what you mean what I do with it? I don't do nothing with it. We sit there each 2 week and she tell me not to think negative to controls my thoughts and all that crap. I tell her how I feels about my pathetic life and such. And she tell me it's not pathetic, blah blah.

How about doing one positive thing a week. Go and do work with a local food bank or homeless shelter. Go to a nursing home and read a book to a elderly person.

If you find you make a difference in someone else's life it often makes a difference in your life.

Next people get married, I do weddings every week, guess what 1/2 or more divorce within two years, and start again.
There is nothing wrong with being single, no disgrace, there are no "old maids" any more. I have several good friends who have made personal choices to be celebrate and to be single.

But yes, anything can be negative, if you let it, I had a serious car wreck a few week ago, guess what I had 3 days before, cancelled my full coverage insurance, so my car is gone, poof,
But I viewed it as a chance to do more things locally, without it. Or as a sign I was too attached to a "thing"
We make our own choices

w.g. what u mean what i do with it? i don't do nothing with it. we sit there each 2 week and she tell me not to think negative to controls my thoughts and all that crap. i tell her how i feels about my pathetic life and such. and she tell me it's nto pathetic, blah blah.
That's not CBT!!

I thought text speak was discouraged -

Whatever happened with Jeanette, HHV?

Jeanette has referred me to another lady who is working with a 'independence living' organization. 'independance living' is to help people that live on their with mental health problems. This other lady told me to call a number about getting social skill training. She told me to go volunteers but I am not doing it because I had bad experience with it.

I am embarrassed to use 'independence living' services but I'm sure a few characters find that to be really funny.

this other lady told me to call a number about getting social skill training. She told me to go volunteers but I am not doing it because I had bad experience with it.
What was your bad experience?

I am embarrassed to use 'independence living' services but I'm sure a few characters find that to be really funny.
Why embarrassed? Why funny? Millions of people do that -- and are glad it's available. In the past, we were stuck away in institutions and treated like dirt.

w.g. have u ever volunteer at a place? Have your son? How did it go? I TRIED it one time years ago. I was in college and I seen a posting for 'habitat for humanity' house building on my birthdAy. They lists the different things they can do like painting, carrying materials, etc. they were going to have a bus come to the school and pick up volunteers. So the next weekend I was extremely anxious and stuff. I had only few friends in college but when they would go and do stuff they never invite me :( only sometimes, so I was always alone and isolated in my dorm room after my roommate moved out semester before hand. Anyway I seen the bus lined up outside 2 of them and there was a lot more people then I thought ouside for it sigh. I put on old clothes for painting and stuff. I went and stood by the buses like everyone else, people were talking to each other but I just stood there alone like on an island I didn't know what to say or who to talk to that was the first problem. Then the people were checking everyone name to make sure they were on the list and what job they were trying to do. I said painting but my name wasn't on the lsit because apparently you have to have sign up on the sheet and then they contact you! I guess all the other people had done that the week before. So I was very embarrassed and said 'can't I just squeeze in and go? Wth.' they said not really because the bus seats was reserved and the jobs per groupings according to how many volunteers there were. I was so embarrassed and mad everyone was looking and getting on the buses. I had what imo was a 'aspie meltdown' do yo uknwo what that is wondergirl? But at the time I didn't know that's what it was. Anyway I just turn around and go back into the dorm, I swear I heard people LOL abut it. I said I would not embarrass myself like that again by signing up for something random and not knowing who and what and where is involved. Now the same meltdown happen to me yesterday and fridway when I tried to have a garage sale at my parents and gave 3 people the wrong money back. Sigh.

w.g. have you ever volunteer at a place?
I am a volunteer at our local cat shelter. I used to go in every weekend to socialize cats, but now can't walk up and down their steep stairs, so I do what I can from home (phone calls to find donors, etc.).

have your son?
No, my autistic son has never been a volunteer. He has worked at a public library for 21 years, so does extra work there to help with special events.

I TRIED it one time years ago.
I'm sorry that didn't work out. Your heart was in the right place. It's too bad they couldn't squeeze you onto the bus.

I was in college
Which college did you go to?

What I think you would enjoy would be a group home with apartments, two people in each apartment. There are several near me (I volunteered at one for a few years) with 20 people who are disabled in some way, mentally and a few physically. Some have Asperger's, some have Down's syndrome, some have cerebral palsy, a couple had strokes -- none can live alone. Their ages are from 25 to 85. No one is sick in bed. Two house parents live there too, and everyone gets along very well and supports each other. All have chores around the building, they eat meals together at a big table, and have a workshop next door where they do special projects like make note cards to sell and do special jobs for local businesses.

I wonder if there is such a place in your state.

I had what imo was a 'aspie meltdown' do yo uknwo what that is wondergirl?
Yup! I know exactly what it is!

Too bad I don't lives near you I could bring the cats to your place so you can play with them there and then takes them back. Sigh. The independence living near your house sound like a nice place, it really do :( I live by myself and I eats alone everyday. Sometime I feel like I am not a part of the world anymore. Only thing is I do not gets along with people I live with so I better off by myself. I like my privacy; been told I am strange because of this. Your son is lucky to finds work at the library for such long time I would love to have that job. Libraries around here have old ladies working in them but they don't want to quits their job or retire.I went to college in Nj and I HATED it. I hates college and I'm never going back again! 'its not the best time of your life' like people say that is a LIE. It was awful and not fun at all imo.

I have called libraries in NJ, and you are correct PLUS the people who work in them are not nearly as friendly as the people who work in Illinois libraries. I even told the NJ librarians I'm a librarian, and they still were mostly uninterested.

Did you go to the community college? I mostly hated college life too. I was in my late teens and early 20s. Later, when I was in my 40s, I went back to college to get a higher degree in psychology, and that was nice. I liked that a lot.

HHV my heart goes out to you. I wish I knew more of your situation so I could offer helpful advice. One thing you mentioned was you said you would bring WG cats to her house to visit. It seems like you need to have a bonding moment before you can relax and open up. I am assuming aspie melt down is aspbergers? Sorry if I spelled it wrong. My ex boyfriend had a son with Aspbergers, it was very difficult to live with, I had no experience with any disorders like that and I didn't know how to deal with it. He was 4 when he was finally diagnosed with it. But we took him to many counselors and doctor's and they kept telling us he was a normal little boy. I felt like a failure as a parent, because I thought there was something wrong with me for not being able to control his melt downs, tantrums, or bond with him. I know that info doesn't help your situation, but I share your frustration.

I guess what I am wanting to say is in regards to your original question of how to tell if you are ugly or not. I see that you do have some socializing issues, and maybe the fact that you haven't been dating is because it is hard for people with no experience with these disorders to know how to interact with people who have aspbergers/autism. A lot of times it's not easy to tell when a person has these issues. It's not a visible trait we can openly see. Do you think if you were around people who struggled with the same things you did/are, you might be able to connect with them? I do know that people with Aspbergers have a harder time bonding with people, especially people who don't know anything about it. But maybe in the independent living places, you would get that chance to connect with out being judged or laughed at. Embaressing situations happy to EVERYONE. My God, I am a magnet for embaressment.

I know what you mean about counseling. I have been to many therapists and not been able to get the answers I was looking for. I found my outlet in dogs. I volunteer at shelters and I foster dogs. While I don't have aspergers or autism, I do suffer from social awkwardness (lol). I find it hard to connect with people, and I find myself being like a Chameleon sometimes, just trying to fit in, often losing who I really am. I spent a lot of years moving with my family. My dad was in the military, so it seemed we were packing up and moving at least 2 times a year. I learned quickly it's better to blend in than stand out. I found when I started volunteering at 16 (I am now 27) I didn't have to be anyone else, I didn't have to talk differently, hide my likes and dislikes, I could just be me. I would spend hours alone with the dogs, the social misfits, the unwanted, and find love. I don't know if any of this helps or even makes sense to you, I just wanted to reach out to you and tell you that like Ben said, I find beauty in the soul.

What is CBT therapy?

What is CBT therapy?
It's cognitive-behavioral therapy. Cognitive = thinking, and behavioral = actions, meaning if you can change your thinking patterns, you can change your behavior.

One of my clients had OCD and couldn't pay her bills. She would write out a check, tear off the part of the bill to be returned with payment, and put both into the proper envelope. But she couldn't seal the envelope. Instead, she could remove the check and tear-off, look at the check for mistakes, then put both back into the envelope. But she still couldn't seal the envelope. Again she would take out the check and look at it, worried that she hadn't signed it. Okay, long look. She had signed it. She put the check and tear-off back into the envelope. Big sigh. Guess what. She still couldn't seal that envelope! Instead, she put a stamp on the envelope and wrote her return address in the top left corner. Maybe the check was wrong. Maybe she had messed up the amount to be paid, so better check. She would pull the two items out of the envelope and look at her check again and compare it to the amount to be paid that was noted on the tear-off. Okay, good to go. Now she could seal the envelope. Oooops, nope. Maybe she had written the wrong year on the check. Better take a look.

The above shows a problem with the cognitive, with thinking processes and how that affects behavior, actions. With CBT, I would be her "wing man" and do the double-checking for her and report back to her that each section on the check was done correctly. I would instruct her to stamp the envelope and add a return address. I would allow her one more check of the contents before she sealed the envelope. Then we would walk to the corner post box and mail the bill. Before she slid the envelope down into the slot, I reassured her that all had been done correctly. We then returned to her apartment for cups of tea and two cookies each (she wanted to eat all of them, so we had to do CBT with that too -- and I won't begin to tell you about her dish-washing difficulties).

It took some weeks of doing this (she gradually relaxed and got more confident). Eventually she was able to do the bill paying on her own without much fuss.

That's how CBT works.

Thank you. Excellent explination. Maybe with the independent living HHV would find a better wing man.

I agree with the perception that beauty lies in beholder's eyes. Among the fellows, we often find that there are pairs, or groups. Every person has his own choice of girls, to look at or relish. For some blackish girls are wow, others like to worship pure white. For some longish hair is beauteous, while others prefer short cutting. What do you think about it?

Aurora ty for sharing your story. What happen to your ex boyfriend son? Why couldn't you live with him? I thought one time to foster dogs but don't u have to give them back if somebody want to buy them? If you are 27 do you lives alone? Or do you have kids?

Well a lot of my problem with sociliazing is frankly I don't understand WHY people do the things they do. It don't make any sense to me sometime. I will give you an example: just recently I was sitting around with some family at their homes and one of them said they been sick lately and have gotten blood test and they hope its not cancerous because that is what doctor said it could be. Then she start crying. Well I stood up and ask if anyone want a turkey and cheese sandwiches because I was going to make one for myself. APPARENTLY I was not suppose to say that :( I was told later by my family member. I don't understand why I shouldn't ask everyone if they would like a ssandwich when I was hungry myself. Personally I don't like saying someone in person 'i'm so sorry' and 'there,there' and hugging them. I try not to touch people and vice versa but I would've been upset if she have cancer (she doesn't btw). To answer your question I never been around other asperger people so I don't know if I would get along with them or not most people I don't so why bother anymore. I am tired of trying and most of them I don't trust anyway.

Cbts is a type of therapy, wondergril does it. It's where you try and get your client to change negative thoughts in their mind for positive ones. If you find beauty is 'in the soul' as you put it, Fine. I'm not going to argues that anymore, because I already said how I feel about that type of thinking. But I know what you mean though about not fitting in nowhere, because you move a lot, I didn't but I still know what you meant. Some people are just social misfit and don't belong no matter what they do.

Aurora yes its true I have problem socializing and I don't even know how to get a date to go on one in the first place. I guess other girls is just born with this knowledge and I got skipped in this departmentof life. Because it's a mystery to me. Only thing I know for sure is men/male do not want a headcase for a girlfriend or someone with mental problem.

w.g. OK so now you have help the woman with the bill paying OCD but I don't think cbts work for everyone I really don't think so. Ihave a OCD also but its not like hers, I think I leave the stove on or a bathroom lights so I have to drive all the way back to make sure I really didn't do that... anyway cbt seem to be working for her like 1,2,3 I been in it and it is not worked for me at all. So aurora it doesnot work for everyone despite what the therapists are raving about it. w.g. don't you think if your really messed up in the head cbt is not going to do nothing for that person?

Hey, HHV. Me and the boyfriend with the son eventually broke up. It was hard losing his son, because I spent so many years helping to raise him. Once he was finally diagnosed I was able to get help on how to handle his situations. It was hard to live with him before he was diagnosed because he seemed to be very uncaring. Like I could tell him I loved him, and he would look me in the eye and tell me he didn't love me. He wouldn't listen to me, he would spit on me, he would hit me, he would go into tantrums where all he would do was scream or cry and there was nothing I could do to console him. One year for his birthday I re did his bedroom. I painted it two different shades of blue. He was really in the movie Cars, and he loved motocross and dirt bikes, so I did everything in cars. I found motocross pictures in magazines and had them framed, I got pictures of him and his mother and father and framed them, I bought new bedding and curtains and just made it his special place. He ended up kicking big holes in the walls and ripping the pictures down when he was having a meltdown. I was frustrated and all I could do was walk away. His father was in the Navy and spent a lot of time away from home. It was very hard on me to raise his 4 year old son and my 2 year old daughter, it seemed so much of my time went into making sure he was happy and not fighting or hurting me and my daughter that she was left out and I missed so much of her growing up. My daughter is very relaxed and it seemed she was spending so much time by herself playing alone, because I had to make sure his son was okay.

I do live on my own, but I have a daughter that I am raising on my own as well. I haven't dated really since my ex. Yes, with fostering you have to give the dogs up once they find their forever homes. The reason behind fostering is that the shelters are so over run and in some cases there are no more spots, so unless they get a place to go, they will be put to sleep. It also helps with training for them to be in a real home environment instead of caged all the time. It really helps them learn their role in a home and decreases the chance of them being returned due to training issues. I have 2 dogs of my own, and as much as I love all the dogs that come into my home, sometimes I am glad to see them go to a good home. It was hard at first, because you do bond tighter with certain dogs, but just knowing they are going to a good home and not being killed helps a lot.

Thank you for explaining CBTS. A lot of people handle sad news in different ways. I'm kind of like you, I find when I try to sympathize or show emotion it seems not genuine, or forced. I probably would have got up and helped you make the sandwiches!

You know, we have been kind of in the same situation. I didn't understand why my boyfriends son acted the way he did, and you don't understand why people do the things they do. It's frustrating not understanding. Have you ever thought about doing research on human behavior?

I don't know how to research human behaviors. How do I do that? Even when you make efforts they just continually throw it in your face how its not good enough. I am sorry about your ex boyfriend and your family and how it didn't work out. I am not going to say nothing else about it because its just going to get misinterpreted by some of these people. Gl with your daughter.

Too many of the same "poor me" threads all ending up in the same place, I am closing this one,