I am a 21 year old guy. Before your brainwashed conformed mind labels me a pedophile, let me present my case.

1) I can get a girl my own age. Trouble is, I don't want anyone but this girl. We share the same values, and view on life. She is very mature for her own age. I never looked at a girl her age this way before, and never expected it to happen.

2) When we met, I thought she was at least 18. She looks older than she is, and I look younger than 21. We both look about 17/18. When we found out each others age, I told her we had to stop talking, and we did for a week. However, we were both depressed and missed each other and began talking again.

3) I have made it very clear to her that I would gladly wait 3 and a half years for her to become of age before having sex, and I mean that. I have no expectations or demands. I just need her in my life. I told her I want to meet her parents and ask for their approval before getting more serious.

4) She loves me. Many people will say "A 14 year old doesn't know what love is." Who really does? I asked her why she loved me and she gave me all the right reasons. If she didn't, I would have stopped this. She gets plenty of attention from boys her own age and could get someone better looking than me.

And who says she can't know? American values? That's just code for white middle-class prejudices and discrimination, justification for greed and hatred. I believe in giving everyone, as I encounter them, one at a time the full value of their dignity and their honor in the world, without premature judgment. I call that a value.

What does America know about love? This is a country where nearly 50% of all marriages end in divorce. A country where thousands of men spend thousands of dollars on prostitutes in marriage, and women have their clitoris's forcibly removed to decrease sexual pleasure to help resist cheating on their husbands. A county that watches who wants to marry a millionare, and the bachelor. I don't think American values are the best reference on what love is.

5) Bottom line is, I could NEVER hurt her. Ever. I would never influence her to do something she doesn't want to do or corrupt her morals. I want to able to walk around and hold her hand. To cuddle up on the couch and watch a movie. To hear her wonderful giggle and look in to her eyes. Does that make me a bad guy? If so, COME AT ME.

Interesting that you label yourself in this manner before you've even started.
The real issue here is that you are an ADULT involved with a CHILD, pure and simple.
I'm not even going to start talking about "feelings", but you are both doing each other a disservice in fooling yourselves that this will continue.

Interesting that you feel the need to justify this to a bunch of anonymous people, so you clearly understand why this is wrong.
If you truly do "love" her, then leave her alone until such time as you will NOT get into serious trouble with this pursuit.

Please get professional help you need serious help since you try to justify being a pedophile.

Care to explain? Be more specific?

A generic answer like that is of no help and lacks any critical thinking whatsoever. I tried to address that school of thought by saying

"American values? That's just code for white middle-class prejudices and discrimination, justification for greed and hatred. I believe in giving everyone, as I encounter them, one at a time the full value of their dignity and their honor in the world, without premature judgment. I call that a value."

Also, I am not a pedophile if I am not having, or perusing sex with her.

Every situation is different, care to try another answer?

Yes, you want and desire a 14 year old child. You know the age and can not move on.

Next don't matter if you are in almost any nation with any moral standards at all, a adult does not chase after a minor child.

Your rambling of desire shows a need for professional help since it lacks any common sense and tries to justify illegal actions.

You are since you know you are, desire for a minor child is all one needs to know.

Are people in real life giving you grief over this? What do her parents say about your friendship? Why do you feel the need to come to an Internet site to defend your feelings for this girl? What's really going on?

I didn't label myself anything. Id be a damn fool to not acknowledge our ages. We have been at this a while and our feelings aren't going anywhere.

I don't need to "justify" it to anonymous people. I am still somewhat on the fence about the whole thing. [edited] It will come to change how everyone sees me. Like I said, I don't want to hurt her, or waste her time, but I do believe she has real feelings for me. On the other hand, I do love her. I respect her, her age, her family, and our society, and I would continue to do so in a real relationship with her. Maybe this is my chance to be happy. Life is way to short to not try being happy.

I dont need to "justify" it to anonymous people.
But don't you see? You're doing exactly that. (And stirring up a hornet's nest in the process.)

Have you been to college and/or are working in a job you enjoy? Does your young lady friend have plans yet for her future?

Sorry frchuck, until you can pose an intelligent point as to how I am lacking common sense I can't take you seriously. I believe I made valid points, while all you say is "illegal". It is NOT illegal to date. I already expressed my will to wait for her to become of age before engaging in a sexual relationship. I value love much, much more than sex.

Thank you wondergirl. Maybe subconsciously I am trying to justify it, but I need to talk to someone about this. We are keeping our relationship hush hush for now. We usually just talk on the phone.

I went to college for 2 years. Currently, I am in a transitional period. I work full time saving money while living at home. I am not ready to start a family and be a "grown up" (for lack of a better word). I won't be for a few years, and she would be an adult by then.

She is a dancer, and plans on going to dance school after high school.

I need to talk to someone about this.
Talk away! I'm listening. Do her parents know you?

You do realize you are playing with fire if the two of you are doing this "hush hush" -- eventually her parents will figure out what's going on (unless they are not good parents).

So does her parents welcome you with open arms when you go to pick up her for a date ?

Are you ready to go to the JR PROM with her

We are not sneaking around. I don't see her in person often. That would be selfish, and unfair to her, and her family. I want to be able to see her though. Before I do that, I would meet her parents. If you can't tell, I really am I good guy. Not a stereotypical 21 year old sex starved beer drinking madman. I would present myself honestly. If they rejected me, I would be unhappy, but respect their decision. She does have good parents. They are very involved and caring from what she tells me.

Yes I would go to the JR prom with her. I want to go see all of her dance recitals, even though I know nothing about it. I want to be a good BF for her because she deserves it. I don't care what people would think of me, as long as her, and her parents approve.

I would say first talk to her parents before anything else. If they say no, stay away from her until she is legally an adult. I respect your decision to stay away sexualy, but be aware that in the next few years she is going to want to do things that combat this. That will be a struggle -I believe your willingness to stay away, just be prepared. As to what to expect from her dancing I can definitely help you there. Dance recitals and competitions are pure chaos. She will mostly be running around like a chicken with her head cut off in some of the craziest costumes and more than likely be extremely nervous. If she is the nervous type that says things she doesn't mean because she is going crazy; be sure to ignore it for that day-you will make it worse when she doesn't even realize what she is saying. There is also the chance that she is not that type and you have nothing to worry about. Above all be supportive and let her know she is the best one out there!

I am a mother of a daughter, although my daughter is 18 now, she once was 14 and I can tell you what to expect when you meet her parents, but I'm not sure it is something you will want to hear.

You're a good writer, forks, and seem to be a logical thinker (once you get off your defensive soapbox). I agree that you really need to find ways to get to know her parents and somehow let them in on how you feel about their daughter.

Is she their only daughter or the first-born one, which place in the family will give you another hurdle to jump?

Your young friend is going to be experiencing many life-changing situations over the next years as she goes through high school and college or a dance school. (You may remember how you were at 14 and how much you have matured over the years.) And even if your hormones have settled down, hers will be going wild, so be aware of that.

Please keep us up to date if you talk with her parents about this.

Yes J9, I would very much like to hear. Take in to account what I am saying, and keep in mind I would follow any of their rules to prove myself. Not that looks are of major importance, but I have a clean appearance. I look about 17 or 18. I am often told I have an honest face. Im not sure if that makes a difference, but I feel like some dope with long hair, an ungroomed beard, and raggy clothes wouldn't even get his foot in the door.

How did you meet her?

Do YOUR parents know about this?

Yes J9, I would very much like to hear. Take in to account what I am saying, and keep in mind I would follow any of their rules to prove myself. Not that looks are of major importance, but I have a clean appearance. I look about 17 or 18. I am often told I have an honest face. Im not sure if that makes a difference, but I feel like some dope with long hair, an ungroomed beard, and raggy clothes wouldnt even get his foot in the door.

I believe you are a well spoken young gentleman and your intentions are good. However, yeah, there it is, that dreaded HOWEVER, you are too old to be dating a child of this age.

No matter your appearance, you would not get your foot in our door when my daughter was 14 without staring down a loaded .44, and probably not even now that she is 18. Her father is not going to believe your intentions. Her father is going to remember what it was like to be your age and he will do all he can to protect his daughter.

I do have to wonder what the two of you have in common.


and women have their clitoris's forcibly removed to decrease sexual pleasure to help resist cheating on their husbands.

Please clear this up for me. I am a registered nurse specializing in women's health here in America. This practice is illegal in America.

So, please come clean now. Are you a 21 year old man? Are you really in the U.S?

I've read through this thread and I must say I'm somewhat dismayed by your attitude. From reading your initial post, I got the impression of a nice guy caught up in something that you felt was wrong in some ways but right in others. But some of your responses have gone over the line to rude and insulting and have been removed.

I'm going to chalk those up to the emotions you feel.

I believe you are sincere though. I think you really have feeling for this girl that go beyond lust, so I don't think you are a pedophile or even in danger of being one.

But I think you are being unfair to this girl. She is a child (no matter how mature you think she is). She needs time to grow up and not be saddled with someone your age infatuated (or otherwise) with her. So my advice to you is to back off.

I don't know how you met her or what the relationship with the family is, but I would wait 3-4 years. Maybe continue to be on the peripheries of her life. But not maintain a romantic relationship. Once she turns 17 (or better yet 18), then you can pursue that romantic relationship.

Thanks wonder. Writing and language was always my strong suit. Im hoping my sharp tongue will give me a punchers chance when I meet her parents.

She is a middle child. She has one older brother, and a younger sister.

I know our relationship would be unconventional, but I think it can be good for her. I can try to help her along the way as I have a little more life experience. She can talk to me about things she can not with her parents, or horny immature teenage boys.

Like I said, she is very mature. Ill try to keep this short..

She told me a story of a girl at her school that gets picked on everyday. Its so bad the girl eats lunch alone in the bathroom. At that age, once a group starts picking on someone, everyone joins in, just to be cool. My girls best friend is one of the girls who teases the bullying victim. She is the only one who stands up for the poor girl, even to her best friend. She isn't friends with the victim, she knows it is the right thing to do. I know many girls my age who would join in on the teasing. That is not the act of a 14 year old. She is above that, and she will make a remarkable woman some day. That is why I love her.

Thanks wonder. Writing and language was always my strong suit. Im hoping my sharp tongue will give me a punchers chance when I meet her parents.
But now you've just put a lie to that. I'm guessing English isn't your first language, because saying your "sharp tongue was always my strong suit" would make that the absolutely worst way to sway her parents to your way of thinking about their daughter. And what's "a punchers chance"?

But now you've just put a lie to that. I'm guessing English isn't your first language, because saying your "sharp tongue was always my strong suit" would make that the absolutely worst way to sway her parents to your way of thinking about their daughter. And what's "a punchers chance"?

I'm curious as well WG. Also curious about the mention of the removal of the clitoris here in the U.S.

Are my spidey senses tingling?

ScottGem: I believe the only rude post I made was directed towards the priest. His comments were unconstructive, and I was looking for real discussion. Please don't judge me by that alone. Your concern about her needing "time to grow up" is my biggest concern. I only want the best for her. I think I can help her and be a very positive part of her life, but what if Im wrong? I would never forgive myself.

J9: Thank you for your imput. I just hope her parents give me a chance.

Wondergirl: Friend of a friend. Started talking one day and before we knew it 2 hours had passed. My parents do not know yet. I think its only fair her parents go first.

And lol, I wouldn't say that to her parents. I just mean, I can speak like a well manorred kid.

Thanks wonder. Writing and language was always my strong suit. Im hoping my sharp tongue will give me a punchers chance when I meet her parents.



Hopefully this a difference of idioms. Because a "sharp tongue" in American English has a negative connotation. In fact you have exhibited a "sharp tongue" in some of your responses in this thread and if you act the same way when you meet her parents you are in for trouble. You need to be polite and self-effacing.

You also still haven't explained how you met her. Once you found out her true age, you should have IMMEDIATELY backed off until you cleared the relationship with her parents. And if her parents do NOT support the relationship, you need to back off.

Uhhh.. Yes english is my first and only language. Im not sure what you are getting at. I was born and raised in Pennsylvania.

Like many illegal things, clitoris removal takes place here in the usa. I don't want this to turn in to a debate about female genitals or my language (which I still don't understand). I have no reason to lie. That is why I came to the internet, to have an anonymous, true discussion about this, as Ive been all alone on this, and it has been driving me crazy.

Uhhh..? Yes english is my first and only language. Im not sure what you are getting at. I was born and raised in Pennsylvania.

Then your use of the phrase "sharp tongue" is puzzling.

Scott: I am aware of my surroundings. I know there is a time and place for that type of talk. My sharp tongue is just as capable of saying something loving as it is hurting. There was no pun intended. I would handle my meet with them like a job interview.

Like many illegal things, clitoris removal takes place here in the usa.

Interesting, as it was banned in 1996 and those that do it can be jailed.

Reasons OP would not be allowed to date my daughter:

"1. I am not a pedophile if I am not having, or perusing sex with her. Need to explain himself - "I'm not a murderer." Then why did you mention it?"

"2. I dont see her in person often. That would be selfish, and unfair to her, and her family. I want to be able to see her though. Before I do that, I would meet her parentsdon't need to "justify" it to anonymous people." Once you post on an open forum you DO need to justify your actions. No one here would have even known about this dating situation if you had not posted. Doesn't see her in person OFTEN and hasn't met her parents. So the girl is sneaking out or meeting him without the knowledge of her parents?

"3. I am in a transitional period. I work full time saving money while living at home." Lives with his parents and is in transition. Reminds me of my ex-husband who was in a "transitional" period while looking for himself for 4 years. Note - ex-husband.

"4. clitoris removal takes place here in the usa." So does murder. That doesn't make it legal AND if you have direct knowledge that this surgery is being performed and this isn't just a "fact" you read in some rag magazine you owe it to women in this Country to notify the Police.

Where are parents when their 14 year olds are on the computer?

This is a true and honest discussion - you want people to agree with you and with one exception, I don't think that's going to happen.

This relationship is inappropriate - maybe she's very mature and you're very immature but a relationship that involves seeing someone at that age without parental consent is playing with dynamite.

You ARE aware, of course, that if her parents get wind of your "relationship" and decide to press charges against you (with or without her consent) you could be tried for rape and found guilty whether you were actually having sex. It happens when the parents are angry enough.

Then there's always the charge of parental interference if you are "dating" and the parents don't know.

What are you transitioning to and from?

Uhhh..? Yes english is my first and only language. Im not sure what you are getting at. I was born and raised in Pennsylvania.

Then your use of the phrase "sharp tongue" is puzzling.


Like many illegal things, clitoris removal takes place here in the usa. I dont want this to turn in to a debate about female genitals or my language (which I still dont understand). I have no reason to lie. That is why I came to the internet, to have an anonymous, true discussion about this, as Ive been all alone on this, and it has been driving me crazy.

Clitoral removal is a cultural thing that is NOT American. Don't know where you even got that idea. It does take place in the US, but among immigrants. You were the one who brought up the issue to justify your claim that Americans don't know about real love. A point I disagree with. But, if you want to make that point then why do you, as a native, think you have a better handle on things? And, if you want to make that point, why do you bring up things that are very unAmerican to justify that point?

This is mostly about you, not the girl, not American values. This is about you, as an adult, trying to have an adult relationship with a child. So the question now is, when are you going to talk to her parents and ask their permission for this relationship?

Forks let me ask you this and please answer honestly. Would you let your 14 year old daughter (or sister) date a 25 year old man? Add into it that the main fact you would hear (along with everyone in this thread) is your age. Not how well dressed you are (which doesn't hurt) or how smart you are. If your little sister came to you about this what would you think?

JUDY:

1) When I mention the age difference of 21 and 14, what do you think of? Not mentioning the word "pedophile" would be like not mentioning the big pink elephant sitting in the middle of the living room.

2) I don't need to justify it to you. You are ignoring things I have said. Im alone on this. Its been driving me crazy and I need someone to talk to about it. Ive talked to her about it but I don't want to constantly bug her about it. And no, she has never snuck out to see me. I haven't seen her since I learned her real age I shut it down but the feeling didn't go away, so we began talking on the phone.

3) I am transitioning from a medical condition that required multiple surgeries, and over a year to fully heal. I intended on going back to school next semester.

4) can we drop the clitoris remark please? It is irrelevant.

5) I doubt very seriously I could be charged with anything. And if I was it would never stick. No opportunity to have sex.

You just want to assume the worst of me.

4) can we drop the clitoris remark please? It is irrelevant.


It is not irrelevant. It speaks volumes of your culture and beliefs. What is your cultural background by the way?


5) I doubt very seriously I could be charged with anything. And if I was it would never stick. No opportunity to have sex.


Oh, if it were my daughter you were after it would stick. I'd make sure of that. I'd move the moon and the stars to make sure you never saw daylight again.

2) I dont need to justify it to you. You are ignoring things I have said. Im alone on this. Its been driving me crazy and I need someone to talk to about it. Ive talked to her about it but I dont want to constantly bug her about it. And no, she has never snuck out to see me. I havent seen her since I learned her real age I shut it down but the feeling didnt go away, so we began talking on the phone.

4) can we drop the clitoris remark please? It is irrelevant.

5) I doubt very seriously I could be charged with anything. And if I was it would never stick. No opportunity to have sex.

You just want to assume the worst of me.

2) YOU came here asking for advice. So yes YOU do have to justify your actions to anyone here who asks. You are talking to us about it and we are talking to you. The problem here is you don't want to listen to anything that you don't agree with. And, again, I have to question your attitude here.

4) You were the one who brought it up. So just admit you were wrong and it will be dropped.

5) You are wrong. While it would be unlikely to be charged with a sex crime, there are crimes that you could be charged with if you go against her parents.

Jam, an 11 year difference is much different from our 7 year difference. I will change your question to apply to myself.

I would give the guy a chance. I would sit down with him, and talk to him. See what he is about. Honestly, 90% of guys wouldn't pass my test. Most guys are in fact *******s and ruin potential love for someone like me. If he did pass the test, I would set strict rules, maybe only allow them to be together at home. If trust built up, I would perhaps allow them to go out with a strict curfew, and mandatory phone calls.

Im not a very traditional person, and I have no idea what to expect from these people.

Oh my bad... I thought you said you were 25. Thanks for answering, though. I would agree with your restrictions.. I will say, though, that I don't think I would have any say in the matter because the guy I'm with now would be cleaning his gun during your talk. It just depends on the parent.
Advice: be 100% honest with them to build trust... answer every question they ask honestly.

35) I doubt very seriously I could be charged with anything. And if I was it would never stick. No opportunity to have sex.

You just want to assume the worst of me.


You are so very, very wrong - but if you think you can "see" her and "date" her and her parents MIGHT try to press charges but they won't stick, then keep on keeping on. And the charge of parental interference - you're in contact with her. I actually went to law school (as did one of the Mods) so I'm not making this up as I go along.

"We" don't know you. "We" only know what you post and THAT'S the ruler by which you are measured.

Where were you meeting her before you learned her true age? That went unanswered.

Actually, it was answered. I feel like all you see are the numbers 21, and 14, because you have overlooked certain things.

I didn't know her age at first. When I did, I told her we had to stop talking, and we did for a week.

I also said, that if I get a no go from her parents, I would back off.

What is your real objection? Can't you see I care for her?

I can't see that you do or don't care for her. My opinion? If you cared for her you'd meet her parents and if they don't approve I'd stay out of her life. Of course, that's just my opinion - which I think is why you posted here.

Again - where did you meet her and how did you continue to have contact with her?

My objection? I wouldn't want MY daughter "in love" at 14. People you love at 14 are NOT the people you love at 20 or 30 or 40 with very few exceptions.

So you told her you had to stop talking. That lasted for a week.

You think no one can make a false accusation. You might find out about that.

You are talking to her? By phone? Computer? Where are her parents during all of these conversations?

And I would like to know more about the genital mutiliation which YOU brought up. Where is this happening? Has it been reported? Is it something you read in the National Inquirer?

I always wonder when people answer these posts how many 14-year old daughters they've had? The people who are not terribly happy with the OP tend to be those who have children. The people who think it's a great idea tend to be those who don't.

And I'll name names - I am NOT referring to Wondergirl who gives sound advice and has given that same sound advice here.

Thank you for your input judy. There is no sense in us going back and forth. I will never convince you, and that's OK. I don't expect everyone to approve. As a matter of fact, I am very pleased with the amount of support I have got. I was expecting nothing but responses like frchuck. I appreciate you all for hearing me out, and I hope her parents give me the same chance.

There seems to be quite a few intelligent people here. I will be sure to return. Anymore feedback in the meantime would be appreciated.

Actually, it was answered. I feel like all you see are the numbers 21, and 14, because you have overlooked certain things.

I didnt know her age at first. When I did, I told her we had to stop talking, and we did for a week.

I also said, that if I get a no go from her parents, I would back off.

What is your real objection? Can't you see I care for her?

What was answered? How you met? I don't see it, can you please repeat it or reference the post #?

I don't think anyone is overlooking anything. What you fail to understand is we have to go on our experience. And our experience says that an adult having a relationship with a child almost always is wrong and doesn't go well. Will you be the exception? It's possible and I think we are allowing for that possibility.

But the fact remains, that even once you knew her age you reinstated contact WITHOUT talking to her parents FIRST. That to me is objectionable.

And you complain about us not listening to you, but you aren't listening to us. I think most of the responses here have been clear. If you want to continue with this relationship, you get her parents on board before you do ANYTHING more. Whatever our personal feeling about this, it is her parents who have control here. And that has been the consistent message given.

Thank you for your input judy. There is no sense in us going back and forth. I will never convince you, and thats ok. I dont expect everyone to approve. As a matter of fact, I am very pleased with the amount of support I have got. I was expecting nothing but responses like frchuck. I appreciate you all for hearing me out, and I hope her parents give me the same chance.

There seems to be quite a few intelligent people here. I will be sure to return. Anymore feedback in the meantime would be appreciated.



Here's a thought - answer a direct question and see if you change my mind. You did read that I have asked you several times where/how you met and where/how you met after that?

I assume you feel that the only intelligent people here are those who agree that there is no problem with your relationship as it stands?

Based on this response, your failure to answer direct questions and your general tone I do think you and the 14 year old are on the same emotional/maturity level.

FIRST POST

"I told her I want to meet her parents and ask for their approval before getting more serious."

Was that not clear?

And yea, adult/child relationships usually don't work. I am up against a lot of prejudice, and will turn people against me if her parents give me the green light. Ive thought long and hard about it, and I decided I am up for the challenge. I will take the scrutiny that comes along with, and try my hardest to prove them wrong, for her.

FIRST POST

"I told her I want to meet her parents and ask for their approval before getting more serious."

Was that not clear?

And yea, adult/child relationships usually dont work. I am up against a lot of prejudice, and will turn people against me if her parents give me the green light. Ive thought long and hard about it, and I decided I am up for the challenge. I will take the scrutiny that comes along with, and try my hardest to prove them wrong, for her.



People have told me a lot of things. It's actions that speak volumes, not words.

You still don't remember where and how you met her?

So - you told a 14 year old that you want to meet her parents but for whatever reason you have not but you are still in contact AND go to her dance recitals to "see" her? Sounds to me like she's a typical 14-year old. The less her parents know, the better.

I'd do less asking and more doing. I keep hearing about your good intentions BUT the relationship has been "on" for some time (apparently) and all "we" hear are good intentions. Keep procrastinating and she'll be "legal" by the time you speak with her parents.

FIRST POST

"I told her I want to meet her parents and ask for their approval before getting more serious."

Was that not clear?

And yea, adult/child relationships usually dont work. I am up against a lot of prejudice, and will turn people against me if her parents give me the green light. Ive thought long and hard about it, and I decided I am up for the challenge. I will take the scrutiny that comes along with, and try my hardest to prove them wrong, for her.

Nope its not clear enough. What you should have said is; "I want to meet her parents and ask for their approval before we do ANYTHING more." The more contact you have with her before getting her parents approval, the harder it makes for the parents to approve. If I were in their shoes I would see an adult trying to start a relationship with a child behind my back. And I would cut it off.

"Here's a thought - answer a direct question and see if you change my mind. You did read that I have asked you several times where/how you met and where/how you met after that?"I said, a friend of a friend. We were at a picnic party. Saw her the next day as well and learned of her age. Since then Ive been calling her.

I assume you feel that the only intelligent people here are those who agree that there is no problem with your relationship as it stands?

Thank you for your input judy. There is no sense in us going back and forth. I will never convince you, and thats ok. Yes. You are correct.

Based on this response, your failure to answer direct questions and your general tone I do think you and the 14 year old are on the same emotional/maturity level.
Are you serious? What is wrong with you?

Are you serious? What is wrong with you?


Nothing is wrong with me. That's why I'm not posting questions like this on an open forum.

If you don't want to continue the conversation stop responding.

First, thank you for supplying how you met. I don't recall reading that previously.


Based on this response, your failure to answer direct questions and your general tone I do think you and the 14 year old are on the same emotional/maturity level.
Are you serious? What is wrong with you?

Again, you are close to the line here. I don't see anything wrong with Judy's read here. I've been saying similar. I will, again, remind you to be polite and civil.

It's already been said in one way or another but I can tell you, if a 21 year old guy came to me wanting to have a relationship with my 14 year old daughter, well... My first response would not be all that friendly and if I found it continuing anyway, I would do anything I could to put a stop to it. I don't care what the intentions are or how wonderful and super the guy is. 14 is still just a kid and there is no business for an adult guy to be dealing with a kid that age... doesn't matter what the reasons.

I also agree with Judy... most of the people that agree with you probably don't have kids. Once you have kids, you look at things completely differently than you do before kids.

I find it amusing that you came on here and started this (and your very first post was defensive right off the bat) and you're all pissed off at the responses you got from some people... not to mention that you keep saying you don't need to defend yourself. Really?

We've asked about your cultural background. I know that being from a 100% German background has colored my feelings and attitudes about things, even though I'm a fourth-generation German-American, so am totally American.

Am curious about you -- and also about the girl. I know from doing counseling how important culture can be in a relationship and how it can affect families getting along with other families. Could cultural differences become a stumbling block for you and your future with this girl?

I haven't demonstrated that I am pissed whatsoever. I thanked those who agreed, and disagreed with me. Not sure what you are getting at.

Wondergirl, you have been the most helpful person here. {Insults removed}

She is part Puerto Rican, Italian, and German.

I am half Italian, half german.

Her hispanic genes are not very apparent.

Don't play stupid... I can read. I read this thread. I can see what you wrote and how you got mad at Fr_Chuck and jumped Judy a few posts back.

Thank you for remaining objective and reasonable.
You're welcome -- must be my Teutonic pragmatism at work.

She is part Puerto Rican, Italian, and German.

I am half Italian, half german.
That sounds like a good meeting of cultural norms and beliefs. What other commonalities do the two of you have -- things that could be advantages that would help you as you build a case to present to her parents?

Would there be opportunities for both families to get together and do things together?

Let me tell you a story about a young teen girl. Years ago when I was fourteen or so, I idolized my first cousin who was (and probably still is) a very handsome guy, is well-spoken, smart, clever, was very mature and a student at Yale (so he was in his late teens or early 20s). He talked to me like I was an adult, didn't put me down or tease me, treated me respectfully. I drooled over him almost as much as I drooled over the then heart-throb Pat Boone. (Oh, the memories!)

But then something amazing happened. I discovered boys once I started high school. To date, the only boys I had known were from my small town and were like brothers since I'd known them for years. I was with these delicious high school boys every day in class, but my cousin was around only on occasional weekends when he came to visit us from college.

My drooling for my cousin stopped as drooling over male classmates commenced. I'm guessing this will be your young lady friend's experience too.

That sounds like a good meeting of cultural norms and beliefs. What other commonalities do the two of you have-- things that could be advantages that would help you as you build a case to present to her parents?

As I said before, in the story of the girl at school that gets made fun of. It shows me that we share common values. I am very big on treating people right. We like the same kind of food, we both like video games, we like amusement parks, shopping, sports. Our idea of fun is going out and driving go carts on a Friday night or just staying home and watching a movie, not getting drunk and screwing. Our idea of a relationship is companionship, being there for each other, not sex.

Actually the oddity here is that this may work against you. It appears that you both have strong moral and ethical values. The problem this causes for you is that the likelihood is she got those values from her parents. And parents that were able to instill such values on a 14 yr old are also very unlikely to approve of this relationship.

I'm not trying to discourage from talking to them, just preparing you for disappointment.

Scott, I don't know why I can't message you. This board is very different than one I am used to. I really didn't mean to be rude. Please don't lock this as I am sincere in saying that there are smart people here and I am finding it very helpful.

That is a good point. I really don't have the highest of hopes, but I am going to do it first chance I get.

You have to be a member for a certain amount of time to send PMs.

I have found this thread mostly to be a good discussion. And I think you have gotten a lot of good advice, though you may not agree that some of it has been good. Otherwise I might have closed it already. But, your own admittedly, sharp tongue, has gotten the better of you sometimes. One of the problems we face with this medium is that we only get 30% of communication here. We miss the audio and visual cues that come with face to face communication. You have to go into this with the assumption that people are trying to help you.

For sure. I did agree with the majority of it. I didn't mean to give the impression that I was angry. I know this is serious taboo here and I have a good conscience. I am literally prepared to go to her door and be greeted with a fist to the face.

Anyway, I will definitely be back around. I found this place via Google and it was just what I was looking for. It seems most of you are older than me, educated, and some parents.

I have just re-read and find that the word "love" is thrown around very loosely.

At any rate - hopefully now OP speaks with the parents and life goes on. When he DOES speak with the parents I would leave out the part about how long he's going to wait to have sex with their daughter.

Well good luck to you and keep us posted.

Just because you have feelings for someone doesn't mean you should act on them, or allow yourself to be so carried away by them that you cross the lines of good behavior. An adult who influences a child without permission from the parents is crossing that line. Not being fully open and accountable by her parents is also crossing that line, and undermining any actions they see fit to take on this matter. That's dishonest, and deceptive, and while you say you only have the best intentions, your actions are NOT.

Leave her alone until your words and actions match, and you have spoken to her parents, because the FACT is only they can approve of any contact she has with any one. Fact is as an adult you even talking to her without their express knowledge is custodial interference, and you can be prosecuted as such.

Now you can talk of your feelings and intentions all you want, but if you ignore the very real consequences of your actions and the effect they have on a child, and the possible negative effect they will have on her relationship with her parents, then I respectfully submit you while seemingly intelligent, are not as thoughtful and mature as you should be because this is not about what you want, but about good behavior toward a child.

That's the bottom line, and I hope you have enough FACTS to make a good decision for yourself, because feelings don't count when it comes to children, and outside influences.

Leave her alone, and stop influencing someone else's child.

"Not being fully open and accountable by her parents is also crossing that line."

I am sorry, but I am sick of reading this. I have made it clear to her that I MUST have her parents approval before seeing her again. I have stated a few times that I would back off if they gave the word. I also said that not doing so would be selfish, and unfair to her, and her family. Not just parents. I do not want to cause any dysfunction in their home. I don't want them getting mad at her, and would ask them to hate me instead.

"while you say you only have the best intentions, your actions are NOT."

How is that? Was I to ask her parents permission as soon as I met her? How would we have ever known we care for each other? The whole point of meeting your partners family is to do it after the feelings develop. Otherwise it doesn't really work does it?

Our conversations are innocent and appropriate.

I am unable to explain EVERYTHING that I have thought of, because Ive given it hours of thought, and you haven't raised anything new.

What about you? Are you in a good place right now, physically as you heal and emotionally, in general? Do you want to get a bachelor's, which means you'll go back to school? (I think you mentioned that somewhere along the line.) What kind of study? Career possibilities? What about dating young women your age? Is that in the realm of possibility?

Thoughts and feelings don't amount to a hill of beans, nor do good intentions when weighed against actions that have to be taken. So until you have actually taken steps to talk to her parents then you are WRONG! The right thing to do is leave her alone and stop playing with her young mind and do the right thing.

I don't give a rats patoot how you spin this, it changes nothing, and is just you justifying bad behavior. Your spin of this situation means nothing in light of the FACTS, whether you agree or not. No more excuses. Man up, and do what's right and stop being led down a crooked path by feelings you seem unable to control. That's TROUBLE you are asking for.

I am in a very good place right now. I am just about fully healed from my medical issues. I was granted a medical withdraw last year because of it. I was unable to work and had to collect unemployment. I am now functional again and have been working full time since August.

I was working on a degree in sports administration. Career possibilities include sales, marketing, athletic directing, etc. It is basically like a business degree, with a specialty in sports. I live near Philadelphia and Reading, PA, which have large sports markets with opportunity.

I can get a girl my own age. I have had girls my own age, but I don't want any of them. They are all fake and superficial.

"So until you have actually taken steps to talk to her parents then you are WRONG!"Uhh, I agree, so what is the argument?

Talking about this here, has made me want to push her harder for a parent meet. I agree with you 100% in the quote I included.

"I can get a girl my own age. I have had girls my own age, but I dont want any of them. They are all fake and superficial."

This may be perceived wrong. I just mean that, she is great, just what I want in a girl. I haven't met a girl my age that has made me feel love. Ive had crushes, but not love.

I am sorry, but I am sick of reading this. I have made it clear to her that I MUST have her parents approval before seeing her again. I have stated a few times that I would back off if they gave the word. I also said that not doing so would be selfish, and unfair to her, and her family. Not just parents. I do not want to cause any dysfunction in their home. I dont want them getting mad at her, and would ask them to hate me instead.

"while you say you only have the best intentions, your actions are NOT."

How is that? Was I to ask her parents permission as soon as I met her? How would we have ever known we care for each other? The whole point of meeting your partners family is to do it after the feelings develop. Otherwise it doesn't really work does it?

Our conversations are innocent and appropriate.

I am unable to explain EVERYTHING that I have thought of, because Ive given it hours of thought, and you haven't raised anything new.

First, you opened yourself up for this by posting the question. We can only advise based on what we know of the situation.

Second, You should not even be talking to her without her parents approval. Its not just about seeing her, taking to her is an issue.

Third, no you didn't need to ask parental approval as soon as you met her. But as soon as you found out her age, you should not have made any contact with her other than to arrange parental approval. Once you decided that you felt you wanted to continue to talk to her, you should have had one conversation that went like this; I would like to remain in contact with you, but given your age, I need to get your parent's permission first. So when can I meet them?

Finally, you say your conversations are innocent and appropriate. What you aren't getting that just the FACT of your conversations without her parents approval is inappropriate.

What you aren't getting that just the FACT of your conversations without her parents approval is inappropriate.You are right. I am going to bring this up tomorrow.

Cut me some slack here. This is not a normal situation and I am doing the best I can to approach this appropriately and respectfully. Its not like there is a handbook on something like this. I never expected this to happen, it just kind of.. happened.

I may have not been perfect, but overall I think I have done well. My only real mistake was not pushing to meet her parents sooner.

My only real mistake was not pushing to meet her parents sooner.

I disagree. Your only real mistake was not leaving her alone the MINUTE you found out how old she is.

j_9, your trolling is not appreciated, and is unnecessary.

What you aren't getting that just the FACT of your conversations without her parents approval is inappropriate.You are right. I am going to bring this up tomorrow.

Cut me some slack here. This is not a normal situation and I am doing the best I can to approach this appropriately and respectfully. Its not like there is a handbook on something like this. I never expected this to happen, it just kind of..happened.

I may have not been perfect, but overall I think I have done well. My only real mistake was not pushing to meet her parents sooner.

You are going to bring this up tomorrow? Bring it up with... the 14 year old? Call her parents and set up a meet and greet? I realize you think you've done well. In what aspects of this "relationship" have you done well? The sneaking around behind her parents' back aspect?

Why is this not a "normal" situation. What makes your "love" for a 14 year old when you are an adult any different from all the other adults who are "in love" with a child?

If you don't want to hear this, stop posting... and answering.

j_9, your trolling is not appreciated, and is unnecessary.

I'm sorry you feel that it is unnecessary, however I am a mother of 4 children. Their ages are 25, 24, 18 and 9. Three of these are boys and one girl. My girl is 18. I can tell you what I would do if any of my children were in this situation. By that I mean if my boys were infatuated with a child 6 years younger than themselves, and my daughter with a boy 6 years older than herself.

I was also in a similar situation when I was 18. So I think I have some experience here. But you just don't want to hear it because it's not what you want to hear.

So, to those who do not approve (j9, judy, etc.. )

If I meet her parents, lets say, tomorrow for the sake of discussion, and they approve. I take it from there, and follow their rules and treat the girl with the dignity she deserves, what is the problem? If we can make it 3 and a half years in a platonic relationship, we probably really love each other. It would be well worth the wait.

She will be 18, and I will be 25. Her dad was 20, and mom was 30 when they had her. She has an older brother also. My mom was 19, and dad was 26 when my older sister was born.

If his mother dated when she was 14 and his father was 21 I see this going nowhere - and that must be the case or this latest post has no relevance.

Be sure to tell the parents that you don't intend to have sex with their daughter until she's legal. That will set their minds at ease.

Oh, it's not just the mothers of daughters. If my son at 21 was "in love" with a 14 year old I would also be concerned about him.

I can get a girl my own age. I have had girls my own age, but I dont want any of them. They are all fake and superficial.
I was reading along regarding your career possibilities and smiling -- until I hit a speed bump. "They" AREN'T all fake and superficial. Heavenly days! Comments like that make me wonder about your maturity. Have you ever heard of the negative effect of universalizing something?

Judy, you also have the ability to leave this thread. I am not going anywhere. If you want to continue with your closed minded answers, be my guest.

My mom did not know my dad when she was 14. Please stop putting words in my mouth.

You have no right to dictate who answers or who answers your questions. You put this question on a public board, you will answers whether you like them or not.

So judy, please answer my question. What is wrong with that? You busted my balls when I overlooked a question.

>>>"American values? That's just code for white middle-class prejudices and discrimination, justification for greed and hatred. I believe in giving everyone, as I encounter them, one at a time the full value of their dignity and their honor in the world, without premature judgment. I call that a value."<<<<

Fork... your first post already judged and stereotyped the people here... but then I think deep down you knew what to expect and that is why you started already on the defensive.

I think you already know what is in the best interest of this young girl but you are hoping that someone, somewhere, will back you up in what you want.

She likely doesn't want you to meet her parents because she too knows deep down what the outcome will be.

Her behavior with the classmates is not all that unusual as you seem to think. I personally know many, many young people who would act, and have acted, the same way. Many even younger than her.

Both of you are at different stages of physical and especially cognitive development. She doesn't realize it, and you likely don't as well. This is not whether you like the same things, or think the same way about things.

Consider how much you have changed since you were 14.

You said that you would never hurt her, but that is what will happen if you push this to go further. If you truly love her as you say you do, give her the time and space needed for her development to take place. Whether you realize it or not, your influence at this time in her life will likely hamper that because of the differences.

It is admirable that you feel so passionately about what you feel, but you need to put what you feel aside, step back, and look at this thoughtfully and with consideration to her best interest at this time in her life.

You have no right to dictate who answers or who answers your questions. You put this question on a public board, you will answers whether you like them or not.I am not dictating anything. She gave me the same option. I am making her aware that no one is forcing her to be here either.

Answer my question please.

Thank you doula. I appreciate this response.

Yes, I started on the defensive. Im not stupid, I know how this situation is seen.

Anyway, she has been the one pushing to see me, not the other way around. I always tell her I need to meet her parents first. We haven't had a very serious discussion about specifics of making it happen, but she would set it up.

Do you know if she has mentioned you to her friends?

She did tell her best friend. She approved, but I don't put much meaning in to that.

Judy/K9. I admire parents like you. My parents are the same way. I saw my sister grow up and deal with boys. There are a lot of bad parents out there that don't know **** about what their kids are doing.

However, I think you are being a bit unreasonable. Can you give me a good answer to my question?

This thread is now closed.

J_9 beat me to it. But the reasons this thread should be closed is that the OP has continued to insult members. Has proved argumentative and does not seem to want to understand how this site works.

Thank you for adding that Scott. Once he called me K9 I was spitting nails and just had to close it before I lost it!

I'm going to add something else here. I saw the note you posted under a new account. And I'm going to answer it.

If you really don't understand how referring to someone as a K9 is insulting, I suggest you Google it. While I can accept it might have been a typo, it might have been accepted as that, if there wasn't a prior history of insults. Calling someone a troll was what convinced me to close the thread.

Calling people overzealous and unreasonable when they are neither and especially when they take pride in their fairness and reasonableness is an insult. You seem to not have a clue what is insulting and what isn't. We have rules here.