Here's a long one for you older more experienced people then me. I'm 27 male from NYC. I've had a couple serious relationships in the past one lasted 2 years one lasted one year and have done the regular dating thing in between.in 2007 I met a girl online. She's Mormon and believe me it has a lot to do with the situation but she doesn't quite live the average Mormon lifestyle, the best way I can describe it is she's got one foot in the church and one out.

We were together for about 3 years and a few months the last time she left was in May a couple weeks before her birthday. As far as her history goes she is bi-polar and has been diagnosed as such before I met her but she denied it, and ignored it, and even convinced me she wasn't, so I never saw it as an issue with us.

Before I met her I know she had an affair with a married guy whom she had sex with a few times while she had a boyfriend... well enter me into the picture and I swept her off her feet. She initially told me she felt no remorse for having that affair with that guy and I much later assumed it was because of a manic depressive phase she was in... she claims she knew it was a terrible thing but felt no remorse. Once she met me I was like her knight in shining armor. I said I got over the fact that she did that because it was before me and that people deserve not to be judged by their past... (how wrong I was) a few months later we admitted to having fallen for one another and she eventually came to NY to be with me (shes from a small town in Washington state) we had the honeymoon phase for a good while and we were both on cloud 9... until she went home for a visit and I assume was guilt tripped into being a better Mormon and made to believe living with me out of wedlock was a sin and our whole relationship basically was a sin. So she left shortly after her return and it was terrible it brought out the worst in me and I said hurtful things in the hope of getting some kind of reaction out of her but she is emotionally shallow with certain things and it just made her cower and run away even more (which she cries about the silliest things ironically).

Now this same situation has happened 3 times now and we are currently not together and it's the longest she's been gone since may. I always felt in my heart and mind that this is the girl for me because when she isn't acting out she is an amazing person extremely well mannered, smart, funny, very good looking and just so much fun to be with. Out of the 3 times she's left she has shown interest in 2 guys (a coworker the first time she left and another guy after our breakup just about 2 months ago) and has kissed both of them which I always have a meltdown from and then always get over it. She later regrets it feels bad for it and says she knew she shouldn't have done it... this last guy is a little different because she did tell me initially she started talking to someone which made me say terrible things to her and completely ignore her for 2 months. I caved in one day and asked how she was doing. She enjoyed talking to me the past few days after that and was very confused at how much I have changed and improved as a man and a person. She said she had already thought about not talking to the other guy because she knew she was just using him as relief from our breakup though she admitted she actually likes him and being around him.

It seems I've been confusing her lately even more because she doesn't speak to him and speaks to me a bit more regularly. I admit I wasn't the best boyfriend to her I was downright ****ty at times. I didn't like to go out as much because I was content at home with her I am normally not an introvert and enjoy doing fun things but I was a bit selfish and didn't take her out much and she is the very spontaneous type that will decide to do something on a weekday out of nowhere because she is bored.

Now I don't know if that has anything to do with being bi-polar but I feel like it does I honestly don't see it as a "personality trait" because its just so extremely random like one second she wants to stay and sulk and then the next she's all upbeat and ready to take on the world. She had so much negative energy that just keeps bouncing off me and then back to her which made things end terribly. I still love this girl. I tried to leave her and forget her and keep my pride but then what? I have my pride but not the person who I feel like I know is the love of my life... I've become a better person because of this relationship and I told her the other day that I know it seems desperate and pathetic but that I'd always be there for her until the day she meets someone else and doesn't need me.. it made her cry and tell me she till loves me but she still feels it wouldn't work out between us...

I'm giving her the time to get her act together as this whole being wishy washy thing I know is a sign of immaturity on her part... its probably dumb she might never grow out of it while I wait and the fact that she's so far away I wouldn't doubt if another douche bag comes along and sweeps her off her feet and it actually ends well for them... I'm cool headed and civil now and have been improving myself by leaps and bounds..

So my question is how likely is it that this will work? What more can I do? Should I do something spontaneous and unexpected like going to Washington myself for once and showing up out of the blue to surprise her without expectations and then leave and hope that letting her see the new me will make her realize she wants to be with me?

Does anyone else have similar situations and how did it end? Should I just back off and take it as a life lesson? I would hate it if a year went by she's had another boyfriend/s and then decides she wants to be with me... I know I wouldn't want her back knowing she's slept with other guy/s since me... I welcome all criticisms to myself bad and good...

Edited/T

I applaud you for getting your own act together. It sounds like you've been her anchor, especially during her manic phases.

Brace yourself. I'm going to ask you some questions to clarify the situation for me.

Has she been seeing a counselor through all of this? If not, has she ever seen one on a regular basis? Has she ever been on meds for her bipolar illness? If so, do you know who prescribed the meds and what it was?

The funny thing is ever since she left in may and it was terrible for both the both us because I resented her for doing it yet a 3d time and I tried to not talk to her since she left (which I successfully did for a month or so) I came to the realization after doing some research that she WAS in fact bi-polar... the whole time we were together the bipolar thing was non existent. I felt like I had startling new developments about our situation and ran to her saying I understood things better now because of her condition and told her I wanted to help her get through this... I got through to her because she eventually set herself up with a therapist and as far as I know has been seeing him/her once a week or so she says... I don't know if she is on meds yet because I have not asked which I planned to do... before she was with me she was prescribed meds but I don't know what or from who... 2 of her sisters also suffer/d from this and acted out in their own ways... one was promiscuous in her teens but became fully mormon lifestyle deal and is married with kids happily... the other is younger then my xgf and is as seflish a person as there can be... so yea I'm assuming it runs in her family... I will admit though even though I was not aware of her phases at times I did notice the changes at times and even when she was depressed I sometimes blew her off about it because I felt "whats there to be depressed about?" I know better now and know what she's up against and yet I don't just want her I want to be there for her... we are supposed to talk tonight but she is focusing all her energy on working and school... she has 2 jobs and is looing for a third to replace one and is starting school next semester so our chats have been sporadic at best though it seems like now that she told me she feels it won't work out that she is limiting her contact with me even more... im starting to wonder if now she is just playing the game to keep me interested because she never was the type to play games... but yet she still does talk to me... and thanks for replying so fast it means a lot to know I'm doing something right!

Also she didn't acutally take her meds and eventually lived in denial about her situation because she felt "all they do is give you drugs and make you worse" type of attitude and basically didn't want to feel like she was a statistic typical depressed girl on drugs... her older sister was given meds and it made her suicidal and from what she tells me the doctors or whoever were indifferent and just had prescribed pills like candy

One thing you can do for me to be my anchor is to make some line breaks (paragraphs) in your posts so they are not so dense, are easier to read.

It sounds like she really needs to get herself together, and you don't really know what's all going on with that. Bipolar illness runs in my family, so I know how confusing and upsetting it can be to friends and loved ones. And she will need to stay on top of this for her entire life. It sounds like, from what you've said about her, that will be difficult for her to do.

She's putting you at a distance. Maybe that is a good sign to you that it's time to cut your losses and live your life without her. If she shows up later and wants to renew your relationship, be very careful as to her motives -- if it's really her heart talking or just the mania. In fact, if you have truly moved on and are in a relationship, you might be best off ignoring her advances, no matter what motivates them. I truly fear for her stability and consistency.

Sorry about that, consider it fixed.

She has claimed to me lately that she realizes now so many of her flaws (she said she knew she needed to fix herself but couldn't quite put her finger on what until recently)and that she too is working on them though not making as much progress as I am.

I don't want to sound like I am in denial but I do feel like working long hours and focusing on being productive are legitimate reasons to have limited contact with me. The way I see it I will just keep talking to her with absoultely no expetations and let whatever happens happen. If I should meet someone new so be it and vice-versa.

Idid tell her once or twice after some of our breakups that if she doesn't fix things with me, the guy she also always claimed to be the love of her life, then she will always have problems with whoever she ends up with in the future. And I can assure you after a year apart I will likely want nothing to do with her. I feel like if I gave it my all and tried and tried again and she doesn't accept me then I won't want her back after a while only to wonder who has she been intimate with since me? When we were at our ebst we had a rock solid relationship, the type people envy and would kill for but I guess its time to let all of that go...

You can try and try until you are blue in the face, but if she's bipolar and not in therapy and/or taking her meds, it won't matter. You will just be spinning your wheels and getting your heart broken time after time. Yes, having no expectations is the way to go.

I do wish you well. Continue with gusto on your own path to wellness and success and happiness.

She just messaged me and said she is currently not on meds.. I asked, said she told the guy that she rather not take meds but will if she has to and that he didn't say anything about it so far...

I was calm and cool like I usually am now and just said I udnerstnad if she has no time to talk tonight because she's so busy and told her again if she ever needs someone to talk to or a shoulder to cry on that I'll be there and she said "likewise" and I cut it off there..

Thanks for the support, I know I still need to work on myself and I can honestly say I feel great to sincerely forgive her for the things she did wrong and the pain I felt because of it... and I can honestly say that I live in my head and this is the first time that I ever put any of this out there and I got to say I regret not doing sooner if I had done this since the first time who knows things might have turned out different but regardless I am better for it and I will take life by the horns and continue on my enlightned path of healing and improvement.

You're handling this very well, Tom. I admire you and hope you will return to keep me (us) up to date on how things are going.

Ha, well I don't know that you'd admire me when I get very upset and go nuclear... people tell me I'm very good at saying the right things to hurt them... but I am changing. Honestly.

I will definitely keep everyone posted, but I still wonder. Does her reasoning for "its not going to work out" have anything to do with the BP? What kind of changes will she experience if she gets the right/wrong meds? What will she act like and what can I expect if/once she's on meds? I also forgot to mention that they talk about her mood swings in counseling. Do you think she will eventually need meds? I think she will since the mood swings and the depression are so reccurrent. Do you think her counselor has (or will) advise her to move on from me? Sorry for all the questions I tend to overanalyze and I can never sleep until I get answers.

Tom

A lot depends on how skilled her therapist is in dealing with bipolar issues, and if your friend goes on meds, how faithfully she sticks with the program. Is she going to therapy sessions regularly, consistently?

She has told me she doesn't go very often. I think she said it was once a week or once 2 weeks for just an hour or 2. I really don't know how long a session should be or how often a person needs to go.

Since I'm a counselor, I will tell you how it goes. (Feel free to ask questions about therapy.)

Sessions last for 50 minutes and are usually once or twice a week.

OK last post tonight before bed

I am curious. What are the consequences if she should leave out details or information that might be important to the sessions and her counselor? Will the counselor notice things like that? What are the steps a counselor takes with new patients?

I'm assuming the answers to some of these questions fall under "how good the counselor is"

I'm assuming the answers to some of these questions fall under "how good the counselor is"
Yup, you got it!

what are the consequences if she should leave out details or information that might be important to the sessions and her counselor?
I tell my clients that I will keep everything they say confidential and spend a lot of time building a relationship, building trust. Along the way, I mention that a successful outcome depends on their being totally honest with me and that I have their best interests at heart.

will the counselor notice things like that?
Yes. We watch body language, facial expressions, notice voice tones, style of speech and any changes, etc. It's amazing how easy it is to figure out, with experience, that someone's not saying something.

what are the steps a counselor takes with new patients?
Like I said above, a good therapist's main order of business is to build a trusting relationship with the client. We work together with the client to improve their lives.

Just my opinion, let this one go and continue down the path of healing, and growth.

It could take years for her to get to the point of being a good healthy, TRUSTWORTHY partner, and why should you put your life on hold, for something that may never happen.

I would be straight up now and tell her, it was lovely while it lasted but see you and have a nice life.

WHY? Because she cheated, and YOU got over it to many times to be healthy yourself. Her whole history is one of cheating with NO remorse.

HELLOOOOOOO, you are not pay attention to FACTS, and totally ignoring the RED FLAGS that have been waving constantly in your face.

That's not good. NO CONTACT, whatsoever, so you can get some REALITY. A year without her influence sounds like a great idea to me.

Sometimes we get with the wrong people. Romantically anyway.

"Out of the 3 times she's left"

You have to decide if she is worth it.

Im not trying to be cold, but you have to think of #1.

What's right for you. She's a big girl, makes her own decisions. Meds, help, affairs, whatever.

Make yours.

I dated a girl. Manic depressive years ago. A very close friend first.
I was in love with her.
She ended up having a baby w/someone else, during our relationship. It never worked with us. Or was going to.

20 years later, she is still my close friend.

So, glad we never continued romantically.

thanks for the replies and I'm not being stubborn but like I said before, I'm taking things one day at a time without any expectations (and no I'm not fooling myself).

one of the strangest things people do in my opinion is try to quit someone cold turkey after being with them for x amount of years and knowing that person so intimately and vice-versa. I find that with my attachment to her it would be unwise and unhealthy to just disappear and never contact her again. I guess I am mainly doing this for myself because I don't want to walk away from this feeling like I didn't do everything possible to resolve it and because I somehow feel that if I take things one day at a time things will die down on their own and I will truly be able to just call her 'friend'. I don't want to end up like those people who break up with someone and 10 years later can't get them off their mind and still want them back.

a little update. She's still busy working and I'm still busy enjoying my life and working on myself. She claims that I am special enough that she makes time to talk to me out of her very busy schedule and is still confused but mainly very scared of how she feels about me because she is adamant about feeling that things will never work out with us and yet still loves me. She admitted that she is upset in a way, that I can easily come back into her life and make her completely forget and cut off the other person she met and is scared that she will never be able to let go I guess.

I also think that her working hard is just another way of her running from her problems but in a more dignified manner as ooposed to just sitting at home and letting the emotions take over and sulking and being unproductive but what do I know I really am no doctor and maybe I am wrong for trying to anazlye it.as far as I also know she has not been keeping up with steady counselor visits and is still not taking any meds.

I will continue to be a supportive friend through this to her and enjoy my own life as well. Will tell more later as things develop. Thanks

Another update: we talk regularly. Nothing serious and no negative memories are brought up enough to make the conversations JUST about that if you can call them convos... im doing so much better lately. I feel like someone turned a love "switch" off in my body. I still care for her but realize I'm no longer in love. I don't know if this is how she felt since she's left but I could understand if it is and its given me clarity.

I am truly glad we are still friends but I feel ready to move on and I still got her back in any way I can because I am still worried that she will not be on top of her bi-polar issues.

If anyone can help though one thing that always confused me... if her older sister is BP, how is it that her life is dramatically different now for the better without help or medication as opposed to when she acted out as a youth? Any insight would be helpful because I always read you can't really "outgrow" BP

Was her older sister officially diagnosed as BP by a psychiatrist, or was that just her take on her behavior? And no, one doesn't outgrow BP.

Yes she was diagnosed and took meds for a while and it had negative side effects so she stopped taking anything and stopped seeing help.

I have no clue if she still has issues but the way things look and from what my ex tells me, she is pretty happy with her life right now. Married for about 4 years with 2 kids and sounds like she's very stable.

Well, it could be she was misdiagnosed or she doesn't have a "severe" case or she has learned to compensate and be involved with family and work. Every individual handles BP differently, depending on personality and environmental influences, for instance.

Unless you know a person really well, best to not make assumptions. Many who suffer a variety of things, not just BP, appear rather normal, with rather normal lives, with or without meds. We humans can adapt rather strikingly most times.

Sometimes you can't tell from the outside looking in. There are many cases of drunks that are seen to be the best people in the world, and only those close know the truth.

Just because a chap is holding a newspaper doesn't mean they can read. Many have ways to hide/cope with what haunts them.