If a dog escapes the yard, and is found by the city, and the pet has a chip, and they contact the owner, and they KNOW the owner is going to pick the pet up, can they legally spay or neuter that pet with OUT consent of the owner, and then proceed to CHARGE the owner for the surgery that they did not even want in the first place?
*asking for a friend, not my pet lol*

I found this pretty interesting
Arizona Considers Mandatory Spay/Neuter for Entire State | Animal Law Coalition (http://www.animallawcoalition.com/spay-neuter/article/465)

It is not recently updated, but maybe you can go from there and research the county laws in order to find out what your friend needs to know.
It looks as if AZ may have passed a law that leaves little leeway for having unaltered pets past the age of six months without a special permit to keep them intact.
Also they may consider that it came into the shelter unaltered and some law or bi-law states that it may not leave that way.
As usual, it seems to be state by state/county by county when it comes to specifics.
Perhaps she knows a lawyer she could call to get the rundown on the latest ordinances.
Hope this helped a little.

I would say no...

Jennie, here is a link to the Maricopa County ordinances on Animal Control: http://www.maricopa.gov/Clk_board/Ordinances/P13_Animal_Control.pdf (It was from the county website but doesn't appear to have been updated since 1996.)

Section 8 talks about impounded animals. It doesn't say that animals will be altered before being returned to their owners. However, it does mention a 72 hour period for reclaiming an animal and after that it is deemed property of the pound. Did she physically reclaim her dog inside of the 72 hour period?

If it was past that time then they may well have been within their legal rights to alter the dog and the charge would have been part of the 'fees' for reclaiming the animal.

If it was before the period expired, then she may want to consult a lawyer.

However, on the responsible pet owner part, her dog will be much healthier and happier after being altered. And she won't be taking a chance on contributing to the over population of pets. By the way, the Maricopa Animal Control site has a cute brochure explaining about why sterilization is a good thing. http://www.maricopa.gov/pets/pdf/comics/Sterilization.pdf

Ahhh I bet that may be the problem. Thank you all. She didn't have the money to get the pup right away and had to wait until payday. I'm not sure how long, ill have to ask, but they told her they would hold the dog and quoted her a price for pick up. Then when she got there to pick the dog up, they gave her a price that was 100$ more than what they told her and when she asked, they said she was fixed.

She is mostly angry because she was BARELY pregnant (had gotten pregnant during the few days she was running around out of the yard I would assume) and they aborted the pregnancy and did the spay.

So it was a spay/abort.

I can understand your friend's upset, but I hope she can look at the reality of the situation and see that it was probably for the best. They may have saved her life.

You haven't said what breed(s), size, or age the dog is.

Some breeds are notorious for large litters (eight to twelve pups.) Would your friend have been able to support even four puppies until they were eight to twelve weeks old? That includes getting them checked out, wormed, vaccinated, etc. then comes find good safe homes for them and hoping they don't end up at the pound to be adopted.

If she is a small or medium sized dog and they don't know what she mated with, it is safer for her to spay and abort than take a chance that she mated with a dog much larger than herself or one who might carry the genes of a much larger breed. If the pups grew too big, it would endanger her life trying to carry, whelp, and care for them.

If she is under a year old or an older dog, pregnancy is extremely hard on the body and even with a lot of care it can affect her expected life span.

Here in my county any animal caught at large will be spayed or neutered if not claimed with in 48 hours. That's just two days, and I believe the cats are done immediately and if not claimed with in 24 hours they are released the day after surgery where they were picked up. We are so over run with cats and kittens it's very sad. People are up in arms about this new bi law, but it beats the heck out of putting them down.

I know our fee for the pick up spay/neuter is considerably less than what the vets charge for spay and neuters. If a dog or cat comes in pregnant they are automatically spayed/aborted. I know it seems harsh and unfair to some, but really it's just a small step in animal population control. Like I said, it beats the heck out of having to put the animals down due to no space or lack of resources. I think the way they feel with this program is, there is room or accidents, most people's first phone call is to the local shelters, but when no claim comes in for over 48 hours, it seems this may go beyond accident.

And I just wanted to add, that if your friend could not pay the recover fee, it's likely she would have been able to afford proper vet care for the pregnant dog and future pups. Didn't mean for that to be harsh, just reality.

This is a matter for the lawyers to hash out. I would be tempted to sue whatever organization that authorized the pound to do that.

If the city/county/state has gotten a law allowing this sort of 'enforcement' passed, then it should be enough for the average citizen to force the issue in order to find out just how far their government thinks it can go.

I better just stop here.

Wow Paleo, legal action? You would sue a non for profit organization that saves many lives and re-homes many wonderful pets each day? Don't you think it's fair to say that a dog running at large un altered is not a responsible way to control the animal population? A spay abort which potentially saved many more lives down the road.

Yep, guess so, depending. What would you do, were you to find yourself in a similar spot?

If the city is a 'Non-profit' entity, well, that's too bad. If it were a non governmental agency shelter, that would be even worse, to my thinking. It is the principle of the government imposing it's will on what they think is best, assuming the governing body has already surrendered their rights on this issue. Our different points of view may be the result of differing localities. We're not too big on having bureaucrats deciding what's 'best' for us and society in general. It has a creeping, insidious nature about it, if not nipped in the bud. Next step, instituted for the benefit of all pets, would be to establish financial requirements before allowing pets into city environs.

This particular example is the topic, not the free roaming animals that exist in most cities. And not many pounds "save" and adopt pets every day, at least not apparently this one. The things you speak of are personal responsibilities of owners. Those should be addressed by statute, not acclaim, and remedies for non performance established. If I read it correctly, the pound turns cats back out where they were found if not claimed in 24 hours? Cheaper than putting them to sleep, I suppose, but not exactly beneficial for the 'animal control' aspect of society. And what happens to animals that are spayed, as this one was, but not claimed right away? Adopted or?

We were not talking about a free roaming animal, this one had escaped. The surgery was not 'offered', nor even mentioned apparently... just done. If a community really wants to round up it's resident animal freeloaders, it could do so, with a little more ingenuity than a pickup truck complete with a with a driver and lasso. But maybe it serves a purpose, if apparently compliant owners who happen to be victims of circumstance are to serve as examples for the ownerless animal population... however they managed to get that way.

If this reply is a little (lot?) disjointed, it may be because I keep going back and inserting thoughts in various places, as they come to mind. It's easy to get wound up over things not clearly explained or defined, which is why I stopped earlier. And I'm begin to lapse into non productive commentary, which is not well served. So, I'll hush up, again. Time for some 'adult refreshment', I think.

owners. Those should be addressed by statute, not acclaim, and remedies for non performance established. If I read it correctly, the pound turns cats back out where they were found if not claimed in 24 hours? Cheaper than putting them to sleep, I suppose, but not exactly beneficial for the 'animal control' aspect of society.

No, they spay or neuter them within 24 hours, and if not claimed they release after surgery. It's part of our no kill promise.


The things you speak of are personal responsibilities of owners.

You're right it is the owners responsibility, BUT if they won't be responsible, why should the animal suffer? Unless you have a pure bred with papers and plan on breeding, the proper way to breed all cats and dogs should be altered In my opinion


We were not talking about a free roaming animal, this one had escaped. The surgery was not 'offered', nor even mentioned apparently... just done.

Yes it has escaped, and was pregnant, and the person in question had no money to get the dog out of the pound. How was she going to provide the proper medical care for the pregnant b!tch and the pups?



What would you do, were you to find yourself in a similar spot?

While I have had dogs that have ran away, they have all been spayed or neutered. If my dog was pregnant and it ran away, I would be calling all the local shelters to put out a lost ad, warning them that she was pregnant, and I didn't want her spayed. The person didn't have any money to pay for the release fee, how long did this dog wait in the pound before she came to recover him?


Time for some 'adult refreshment', I think

Pass one this way too!

What I am not understanding is the assumption that it is nessisary for the pet to be spayed. Yes strays need to be fixed. But a house pet, why is it assumed that it would be better for everyone for the pet to be fixed.

Also, I don't have any answers :( the person who asked me stopped replying about it, so I have no idea what breed, or anything the pet is.

But seriously, that's the main problem I'm having gis the assumption that it NEEDS to be done to ALL pets

Jennie, for the health of the animal, it is better.

Accidents happen. A female is in season for longer than there is any discharge.

Read some of Shaz's stories about what show dogs will do to relieve the urge to mate. Pets are no different.

In the case of the person you were talking to, her house pet became a stray. If she became pregnant while loose, then she was on the streets for more than a day or two. They may have been looking for her, but technically she was a stray.

Did you follow my link to the Maricopa Animal Control site and their brochure on sterilization?

I disagree on the legal action.. But that's the United States for you! Anything that appears wrong or is done without consent it liable for a law suit...

Seriously? This "friend" obviously wasn't taking care of her dog properly with it running AT LARGE and pregnant already at 1 year of age. I think the shelter did her some good.

We don't need any more dogs in this world.. especially mutts. I think any animal running at large is subject to a spay or neuter... There is a reason they are running loose... I doubt it was to make friends.. Well, friends in an overly friendly manner.

And yes, Jennipepsi, ALL pets need to be altered. I would even go as far as saying that breeders should stop producing puppies. The shelters are overloaded with dogs and cats and rescues are just as chalked full of someone's "pets". Millions of dogs, healthy, happy, adoptable dogs (even puppies) are being put to sleep because pets are allowed to run at large without being fixed. It is a huge problem and it needs to come to an end. And I guess if spaying and neutering any animal that is picked up running at large by AC, then so be it. God only knows it needs to be done.

If you've ever read the threads here in the dog section you would see we preach spaying and neutering until we are blue in the face. I am going to strictly copy the benefits from a web page and provide the link below.

Benefits of Spaying

• Prevents pregnancy and the complications arising from pregnancy and delivery

• Eliminates the heat cycle - you won't have to listen to the sounds of your female in heat, trying to get out and find a mate

• Prevents unwelcome males from trying to seek out your female pet in heat

• Reduces the urge to roam. This makes it less likely that you will lose your pet, which in turn makes your pet less likely to contract a disease, get in a fight, get injured, or become a victim to cruelty, poison, or traffic.

• Eliminates sexual discomfort, distress, or distraction... making your pet happier and more content.

• Reduces or eliminates the possibility of disease in the reproductive system.

Benefits of Neutering

• Reduces the distracting and destructive behavior associated with the male's efforts to get out and find a mate

• Reduces the urge to roam. This makes it less likely that you will lose your pet, which in turn makes your pet less likely to contract a disease, get in a fight, get injured, or become a victim to cruelty, poison, or traffic.

• Eliminates sexual discomfort, distress, or distraction... making your pet happier and more content.

• Eliminates testicular tumors and reduces prostate gland problems.

• In cats, neutering stops or reduces marking behavior (territorial spraying of urine).

• Reduces the urge to fight.

Benefits of Spaying or Neutering Your Pet (http://www.pawsperouspets.com/tips/spayneuter.shtml)

I disagree on the legal action.. But thats the United States for ya! Anything that appears wrong or is done without consent it liable for a law suit...

Seriously? This "friend" obviously wasnt taking care of her dog properly with it running AT LARGE and pregnant already at 1 year of age. I think the shelter did her some good.

We dont need any more dogs in this world.. especially mutts. I think any animal running at large is subject to a spay or neuter... There is a reason they are running loose... I doubt it was to make friends.. Well, friends in an overly friendly manner.

And yes, Jennipepsi, ALL pets need to be altered. I would even go as far as saying that breeders should stop producing puppies. The shelters are overloaded with dogs and cats and rescues are just as chalked full of someone's "pets". Millions of dogs, healthy, happy, adoptable dogs (even puppies) are being put to sleep because pets are allowed to run at large without being fixed. It is a huge problem and it needs to come to an end. And I guess if spaying and neutering any animal that is picked up running at large by AC, then so be it. God only knows it needs to be done.

Great post Lucky! Couldn't give you enough greenies. I am glad you touched on the unnecessary deaths each year due to "throw away" pets.

Well I understand the laws now and the need.
But I suppose I just don't see it any different as people. With all those benefits listed, why aren't people sterilized automatically lol. And then only bred for population purpose :P (joking but sort of not if that makes sense)

This is all very interesting to me especially today as I have seen a client come in with a young uneutered cat showing what has been gradual nuerologic symptoms, that start with the rear legs and work it's way up, it is now affecting his front limbs, trying to get blood for testing -impossible-cat is so anemic it is white, no pink mucous membranes at all.
Only to find out that is happening in multiple litters at his house with his 20 some cats. Not all affected but more than one litter. Environmental or genetic or viral? Who knows we don't-yet. But the damage is done at this point. In a case like this a little spaying and neutering in the beginning could have saved a whole bunch of cats suffering, and we still don't know what he will do with them. I think I know what I would do, but they are not my cats.
I need one of Paleos' adult beverages and an Ambien after this day.
Good Night:mad:

LadySam, I can't provide the beverage or the pill, but I can offer a hug if you will take it.

I sincerely hope that everything turns out for the best for this cat and any others in this person's house.

Jennipepsi,

Regarding your assumption that sterilization 'needs' to be done to our pets... it is just that; an assumption. By people who work with animals and have a love of them, and see the discomfort that can come to them as a result of their proclivities to do and act 'like animals'. While the problem that has been created is not strictly of the animals' making, they have been assigned a major role of solving it... with the help of well meaning humans in conjunction with cooperative authorities. This, in this instance, is a shared North American problem. So what is the problem?

= Overproduction... both sides of the border. These animals have been too efficient doing precisely what they were created for. That may not be their role still, but the problem is our making, not theirs. Over the years (millennia?)as we developed them into an integral part of our lives we have removed their natural predators, and are left with the consequences of our action... we are knee deep in their 'productivity', and are not really certain how to deal with it.

Our (Mankinds) program of spay/neuter has not been the answer, but it may be of help in finding the real one. Basically, we may have to reintroduce the effect of natural predators, in some manner acceptable to our 'sensitivities'.

We have, over the generations, created a special place in our lives for pets and in response have developed an industry devoted to caring for their welfare as well as for to those we have lesser affection for, other than their sacrifices for our benefit.

Through the generations past we have 'humanized' all animals. We have created and perpetuated, through our children, an unrealistic and unachievable image of our pets' lives and 'persona'. It is the current level of that perception that keeps us (as a population) from developing a satisfactory solution to the pet overpopulation problem. The solution?

I don't know for sure, but it would seem that it involves a reassessment, and reeducation, of the role of ANIMALS in our personal lives, as well as in the 'general scheme of things'. Until that accomplishment, we will be continually relegated to killing that part of the overpopulation that do not find themselves in 'caring' environments, and preventing all the others from indiscriminate overproduction.

The resort to protection of our rights through legal actions depends on how we regard the role of government and regulation in our lives. Actions taken with regard to an individuals property must be done with legal authority, which comes from the legislative process. It may not be to our liking, but it is permitted as a concession to our respect for the rule of law. Anything outside that frame amounts to creeping usurpation our rights and needs to be checked. For example, you take it upon yourself to spay my dog, (who has found it's way under your control) without proper authority, and you will be taken to task. (Part, apparently, of my childhood indoctrination of pets in my life? plus high school civics class.)

Simple assumption that it is the 'right thing to do', under the circumstances, is insufficient authority regardless of how 'right' it may appear, according to my understanding of authority. And no amount of feeling that all pets should be sterilized is capable of generating that authority, unless a preponderance of legislators can also be convinced.

And in closing, I have a question... how does one determine a dog is 'a few days pregnant'? Sounds like another assumption.