Hi, I just got back from sentencing & am ordered to do a ETG test. I guess in this court it is standard procedure for people going on probation. Just to clear things up in case anyone is interested, it was not a driving violation or anything really to do w/ drinking & will come off my record in a year. I had around 9 beers @ my house w/ everything out of my system aprox. 30 hours ago. The test is in a few hours. I have done a lot of reading & I am of the understanding that if I drink lots of water it will dilute my urine, yet they will catch this because of low creatinine levels. If I drink a lot of water and take creatine will it lower my EtG reading while looking like it is not diluted?

Thanks for any answer...

Hi, I just got back from sentencing & am ordered to do a ETG test. I guess in this court it is standard procedure for people going on probation. Just to clear things up incase anyone is interested, it was not a driving violation or anything really to do w/ drinking & will come off my record in a year. I had around 9 beers @ my house w/ everything out of my system aprox. 30 hours ago. The test is in a few hours. I have done alot of reading & I am of the understanding that if I drink lots of water it will dilute my urine, yet they will catch this because of low creatinine levels. If I drink alot of water and take creatine will it lower my etg reading while looking like it is not diluted?

Thanks for any answer...

Yes, creatine supplement will elevate your creatinine levels, but I think they will be able to tell you have taken a supplement. Creatine supplement is used by body buildes to increase muscle mass.

Tickle thanks, this is just a one time thing - if I pass. I just enough to argue to take another test if I fail as I am not a regular drinker

You are in a double-bind. Diluting your urine will probably be detected as you mention. On the other hand making your urine more concentrate artificially increases the amount of EtG present. In addition, 9 beers would have an elimination time well in excess of 30 hours.

Tell me you didn't go home after sentencing and drink 9 beers knowing you had an EtG test.

There is also a method for determining EtG as a ratio of creatinine called U100 that overcomes urine dilution. It is recommended this system be used in all EtG (http://etg.weebly.com/) tests, but it seldom is... could be though. It's part of an advisory that went to court administrators earlier in the year.

Thanks Dr. Bill.. & LOL.. no I was blindsided and was told @ sentecing that I would have to submit to this. I was thinking that if they normalized the sample, that if my creatinine was artificially high, and my urine diluted, then my ETG would be lower after normalizing. Am I understanding it wrong?

Tickle yes I know, but it is detected in urine as creatinine which varies greatly from person to person from what I understand, which is why they are supposed to normalize w/ the EtG to get a accurate concentration.

I am not at all familiar with the absorption and distribution rate for creatinine supplement which means no way to calculate urine concentration and how long it remains in your system. If normalized, but that's unusual, you could be correct. But normalizing is a post-test procedure and the original read is available. This by-the-way applies only to second stage testing by GC/MS or equivalent that can precisely quantify the results. Second stage testing (confirmation) only occurs if the first test shows positive (IA). The first stage checks for dilution only, i.e. that creatinine is above 20. Any reading above 20 is considered normal.

If the results are not normalized I fear you are simply increasing any remaining EtG.

If this is the first test and you were not specifically ordered to remain alcohol free it seems unlikely that any action could result.

Thanks again DrBill. I didn't know there was a conformation stage as this is completely new to me. "Second stage testing (confirmation) only occurs if the first test shows positive (IA)." - what does (IA) mean? How am I concentrating my urine & EtG by drinking lots of water & taking the supplements? Sorry I don't understand, it just doesn't make sense that diluting is concentrating it. I don't think that any real action will be taken, just afraid they will order these tests for the year if they detect it. It would be a serious pain in the butt if that happened & if I could avoid it...

IA = immunoassay. This is a less sensitive method and far less expensive than the Gas Chromatography/Mass Spectrometry (GC/MS). Therefore, 99.9% of all drug tests follow this two-stage system and only those samples testing positive by IA are then confirmed by GC/MS.

I didn't make myself clear, I apologize. The water does not make your urine more concentrate, it was my point that the introduction of creatinine could counter the dilution. As stated, I'm not familiar with creatinine supplement or to what degree it influences your urine sample. My only reference is natural creatine>creatinine resulting from exercise, stress etc. which tends to increase EtG. Just assuming the supplement works along similar lines but have no idea to what degree.

At any rate, very interested in how you come out and how long the test results take. It's possible that your theory may fly in relation to the initial screen which negates the confirmatory test. Please keep us informed.

Ok.. thanks for the clarification. I get it now. I read up a lot but in a short amount of time & the fact that creatine increases EtG production eluded me. I will let you know how it goes. I'm curious myself I just wish it was with another guinea pig lol.. take care & thanks again!

Well I'm happy to report that we will never know how it would have worked out. I just called the probation dept. & they want me to come in NEXT Friday! I guess it pays to wait till the end of the day on a holiday weekend. I know that I will NOT be celebrating w/ alcohol this Labor Day just to keep safe. Thanks to DrBill & Tickle for the insight. I think I will be keeping an eye out on the automotive questions, maybe I can help someone out in the future..
Cheers! (in a week or so)
-Time

Tickle yes i know, but it is detected in urine as creatinine which varies greatly from person to person from what i understand, which is why they are supposed to normalize w/ the EtG to get a accurate concentration.

Yes, I know this too, these levels are found in the kidneys and used to track how well the kidneys are functioning. That is why the doctor gets a urine sample from diabetics my dear.