Hi,

If someone considers themselves a misfit as far as society goes (socially, romantically, sexually, etc.) is suicide a viable & acceptable option then? Most people will say it is not because "think of the people you live behind" or "people have it worse than you" and all that other crap -- but really, when you are living YOUR life and have extreme difficulty functioning and fitting in with others, not sure why ending it all is NOT a legit choice? BTW, not referring to people who haven't ever tried to fit in or haven't tried counseling -- but those who feel they have exhausted their options. Thoughts? Opinions? Thanks.

I would suggest to anyone who thinks they have exhausted all there options to go to a famiy support group for people who have being effected by a suicide in the family, the stark reality of 'all that crap' is quite enlightening.

In my experience there is no original problem, someone has been through it before and lived to tell the tale.

I have often wondered how bad it has to be to actually go through with the deed, how dark that place must be and I can only imagine the pain a person must be in, BUT, there are always other options.. ALWAYS.

The world is slowly working it's way toward acceptable suicide. There are countries where it's legal, and there are states in the US where MDs have more options to assist those who are terminal (and many MDs do it anyway and take the risk). We are living so long now that many of us wonder, how long do we have to put up with life if we don't feel like it? My dad, sent to a care facility at 92 and pumped full of ridiculous drugs, came home in June, stopped all drugs, and died in 4 days. He not only got to be home but Medicare had a few more dollars to use on those who need it more. Yes, we are at that stage of deciding, because there isn't enough to keep everyone alive.
As for misfits, I see no reason why that shouldn't be an option for them too - as long as they have passed the test of time, such as waiting a year after applying. I would even require something like 14 months, in case it's really just grief that has an anniversary. I would opt for it myself. I think of taking my dog to the vet to be put down and how easy it was to get the shot and hold him while he went to sleep in 3 seconds. I think of the movie, They Shoot Horses, Don't They? The problem is that we as a society have to be extremely careful about not only who is really just in solvable grief and who isn't, but also watching for those who are manipulating the lives of others.

If people who have had enough of life aren't treated like there's something wrong with them, they will most likely feel better, ironically. I'm 64, and I'm finding more and more people my age who agree that we are pretty weary at the thought of a long life. There are sites just about this subject online too, but you have to find them yourself.

Another problem: once you become an advocate for suicide 'rights' you also become a target. People will want to know why you are still alive.

If you don't fit into society correctly is suicide acceptable thenHello Hot:

Nahhh... "Fitting into society correctly", ISN'T something somebody needs to do to live a worthwhile life. In fact, I don't even know what that means. NOBODY fits "correctly". NOBODY!!

excon

Is murder acceptable? If you don't like someone why can't you just kill them? Suicide is murder. The only difference, there's no one to charge with the crime.


Most people will say it is not because "think of the people you live behind" or "people have it worse than you" and all that other crap

My Uncle killed himself. His oldest daughter found him. She was a teenager at the time. That was over 30 years ago. To this day she still has to deal with "all that other crap". She's never forgiven him, and she suffers depression from it, and doesn't trust anyone. His pain is over, hers never will be.

As a person who's seen what "that crap" can do to a family, I have to say, I hate my Uncle for what he did. I hate what he did to his 4 kids, his wife, his sisters, brothers, parents, nieces, nephews, friends. His act was one of utter selfishness.

I wouldn't dismiss that "crap" as unimportant.

Now, can we please get back to the OP?

If you want to discuss suicide, and your rights to it, then start a thread about it.

The way I read this thread, the OP feels out of place, and is contemplating suicide. That's a cry for help, and one that should be addressed, not encouraged.

This is a young person that is having issues. They're all issues that can be resolved. Suicide isn't the answer.

If I read the OP's post incorrectly, and she does in fact want a discussion about suicide, and people's rights to commit suicide, then this thread should be in the discussion forum, and not the emotional wellbeing forum.

Since it is in the emotional wellbeing forum, this is a cry for help, and should be treated as such.

This is not a bebate, its not a for or against question, if it is it is in the wrong thread.

joypulv, while your opinion is welcome the op is in need of help,not options on how suicide is acceptable, this is an emotional wellbeing thread.. wellbeing being the optimium word here... you will find nowhere on this site that suicide is acceptable, while you are entitled to your own opinion, I strongly advice on this occasion you keep your advice on the side of caution as the op may take the advice offered by you as suicide as acceptable.

If you have an issue with this post I suggest you put it in writing to the owners and management of this site.

Redhed 35.

Expert emotional wellbeing.

If someone considers themselves a misfit as far as society goes (socially, romantically, sexually, etc.) is suicide a viable & acceptable option then? Most people will say it is not because "think of the people you live behind" or "people have it worse than you" and all that other crap -- but really, when you are living YOUR life and have extreme difficulty functioning and fitting in with others, not sure why ending it all is NOT a legit choice? BTW, not referring to people who haven't ever tried to fit in or haven't tried counseling -- but those who feel they have exhausted their options. Thoughts? Opinions? Thanks.

To the OP. I have to ask your age. Many times things that seem terrible, well, we grow out of them, or they aren't nearly as bad as we think they are. It all has to do with our age, our perception, etc.

Have you tried counseling? Are you in school? What is it about yourself that you consider to be a "misfit"?

You've never exhausted all your options.

If suicide seems like the only one that's left, then you need to step back and take another look.

You can always do something to change the situation your in, you need to think about what that is for yourself though. People can suggest ways in which you might feel better but you need to decide what (if anything) you want to do to make things better.

I have advised countless people here to explore all sorts of 'wellbeing' options, if you wish to sort through them. They were people in personal distress. I'll shut up so you don't get me kicked out. I don't think any of you understand how liberating it can be to know that you do not need to be treated as sick, hated, or selfish for having those feelings. And it would behoove people to do some research online on just how views are changing.

I in fact had been in a group run by a licensed therapist who agreed on this topic.

When I was 17, the debate over the pill was raging! Think how that has changed. Our mores change. Eskimos 'assisted' the elderly to their deaths. It's a harsh climate. Tahitians before the white man came required that a certain class of people kill their babies. It's a restricted space, an island. We now have overpopulation and finite resources. Just wait and see how mores change.

Well now if you can find an eskimo in this site fair play to you, I have no power to get you 'kicked off' the site joypulv,

As was stated this thread is not a debate, if you wish to discuss the topic please feel free in the appropriate place.

Joy, your opinions are your own, and you have the right to express them, no one is against that. This is just not the place to do it. This is the emotional wellbeing forum. Here we don't discuss suicide, here we try to help people so that they don't resort to suicide. Do you not get that?

If you want to discuss this issue then feel free to start a thread in the discussion forum. If you continue to spout your views on this thread I will report you. This is not the appropriate place for a debate.

The OP's question is asking for for thoughts and opinions, and nowhere in the OP's question did he/she admit that he/she was contemplating suicide. Sounds like the OP was looking for a debate, so joy isn't wrong by giving her opinion.

If the thread is in the wrong board, then let's move it. Problem solved.

OP is 31.
I regret that I didn't read her other posts before my replies (although I don't think I did any harm) and now would like to reach out and say, keep trying to connect with people and life. I would suggest that you talk to your therapist about joining a group, which might help a lot with the discussion of touching fears and abuse. Not only is it more time per session (usually) but you also get to meet others who have similar problems, and some who have totally different problems, and you can help each other.

To all the others: please accept my apologies about this particular thread and I will indeed keep my philosophy to a discussion board.

Joy, I think the main discussion here is that the OP wants to know if suicide is a viable option for being a social outcast, not in chronic pain or palliative care. Are you suggesting that any teen who has a hard time fitting into a new school for more than a year should be able to kill themselves? How many teens out there get over their depression and move on to living happy fulfilled lives? I know I was a teen and young adult who suffered from depression. At those times I did contemplate ending things. Many times. But after being able to have the correct chemical balance in me, I feel 100% different. I no longer need to medicate for depression or anxiety. I can't imagine what I would have missed out on or the pain I would have caused so many.

This may irritate some of the other posters, but I too believe in human euthanasia for people who are in chronic pain, and know they are dying with no other options. I also believe a person has the choice for a DNR, but we are talking about potentially killing ones self because of a social awkwardness we ALL feel.

Bear makes the best point, the OP needs to think about what he/she wants and can change in order to feel better.

This may irritate some of the other posters, but I too believe in human euthanasia for people who are in chronic pain, and know they are dying with no other options. I also believe a person has the choice for a DNR, but we are talking about potentially killing ones self because of a social awkwardness we ALL feel.

Doesn't irritate me at all. I feel the same way, and I've stated that many times on this site. When my mom found out she was terminal she told me that she wished she were a dog so that I could put her down. That still haunts me. If I could have done that for her, I would have.

But, that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about a perfectly healthy young person that has no medical issues other then feeling like a misfit.


The OP's question is asking for for thoughts and opinions, and nowhere in the OP's question did he/she admit that he/she was contemplating suicide. Sounds like the OP was looking for a debate, so joy isn't wrong by giving her opinion.

Slapy, this clearly isn't the forum for a debate, especially a debate about suicide. When I read the OP's thread I went to her other posts and read, and that's what made me come to the conclusion that she's crying out for help. That and the forum that she put her post in.

If it's a debate that the OP wanted then it should be moved to a more appropriate forum, and then yes, we should all feel free to debate it, no matter what our opinions. But, it's not in a discussion forum, it's in emotional wellbeing, and until the OP tells us that she's not contemplating suicide, and she does just want a debate, we have to treat this post as any other post in this forum, which is a person crying out for help.

We do have to consider the forum this thread is in, and we also have to consider the fact that the OP placed the question here. There has to be a reason for that.

Yea, that's what I explained to Joy, the OP isn't a terminal patient, there needs to be a fine line with human euthanasia. Emotional and physical pain.

Eskimos 'assisted' the elderly to their deaths. It's a harsh climate. Tahitians before the white man came required that a certain class of people kill their babies. It's a restricted space, an island. We now have overpopulation and finite resources. Just wait and see how mores change.

That's called genocide. Are you for that as well?

Sorry, wrong topic, should belong in another discussion thread.

I submitted a long, thoughtful post on the Philosophy board just now and it isn't THERE. I feel sick.
(And I did address the genocide question as well as my whole thought on rights to our own bodies. It's going to fall on deaf ears and some gremlin is out to get me anyway.)

I submitted a long, thoughtful post on the Philosophy board just now and it isn't THERE. I feel sick.
(And I did address the genocide question as well as my whole thought on rights to our own bodies. It's going to fall on deaf ears and some gremlin is out to get me anyway.)

joypulv, post in the forum feedback about your post, it may be a skin issue or a time delay in the 'go' skin if you posted it there.

Joypulv,

I appreciate your insight on the topic and do agree with you and the views you stated. As for others, while I respect your opinions on the matter, I don't care to address people's personal issues as far as what their family member did or didn't do concerning suicide attempts. As unfortunate as it sounds their situations have no bearing on my every day life and vice versa. I don't have 4 kids, etc. I live alone and have an older sister who lives in another state. My mom is deceased and do not have a father. So yea... whatever circumstances your family member may or may not have been in doesn't our situations are remotely the same. I suffer from severe depression and social misgivings. Not to be rude, but I really don't care that someone else has had the same problem and got 'by just fine.' Good for them, I guess... Maybe I phrased things wrong, but as someone mentioned this is not a 'for or against suicide thread'. I am trying to find out WHY people feel it is NOT a valid option if: 1. if that person feels they have exhausted options to better their life and 2. just are unhappy in life overall. I feel the only reason WHY people say it is not a valid option has more to do with their own pain, feelings towards the aftermath etc. Furthermore, opening another can of worms: I don't see how viewing suicide as an option automatically qualifies that person as mentally ill either. I hope this all makes more sense to posters.

Aurora bell -- sorry I did forget to add these thoughts, yes I am 31. And again I as not talking about teens or people with chronic illness. I am an adult woman who lives alone. It is great you were able to correct your chemical imbalance, really it is. Not you in particular, but I get tired of my therapist and others telling me about what someone else did and how everything is great for them now. In other words there is this impression that simply because things have picked up positively for persons A & B, my life will then go into an upswing as well. To me, it's a crock of sh*t and has not happened nor do I see it as happening in the near future. I am in therapy and on medication (my 4th one). I have tried things socially, etc. so not just sitting around waiting for the 'good life' to drop into my lap. I would go into further details about other issues I have but do not feel comfortable at this time. Plain and simple, I am tired of trying and want to understand why suicide is not considered a viable option for people who are socially inept and suffer from mental disorders etc.

Hey Hot, I knew when Iposted my post it was wrong to talk about what happened to me etc... and I totally get what you mean about other people's lives having no bearing on yor own. I get that.

I guess I don't have an answer to you,e xcept it seems such a shame for such a young person to give up and end everything.The reason I made that comment is because I wouldn't want every teen feeling bummed out about not fitting in to think it'sokay to off themselves.

Hot, you have to remember that every time you ask someone a question, they base that answer not only on their own knowledge, but their own experiences. No one can give you the answer you're looking for. Only you know your life, how you feel, what you've tried to do. We can only tell you what others, ourselves included, have experienced, and what we did to work it out.

When it comes to depression it's hit and miss. What works for one person doesn't work for another. Medications don't work for everyone, therapy doesn't work for everyone, but in my experience it usually does help, even if the problem isn't completely solved.

You want to know why suicide isn't acceptable. That's a very personal question. You can't expect people to answer it without a personal attachment, and personal reasons they're for or against.


Plain and simple, I am tired of trying and want to understand why suicide is not considered a viable option for people who are socially inept and suffer from mental disorders etc.

The answer to your question, leaving out my personal experiences as much as I can, is that suicide for someone that is young and physically healthy, is not acceptable because it's the taking of a human life. It's the murder of a human being. In many places you can go to jail for attempted suicide.

The majority of the world holds life sacred. To allow someone that isn't ill, isn't old, isn't in physical pain, to just decide to end their lives, that opens a huge can of worms.

What about all the young teens that are going through a hard time in their lives and just need a bit of direction, or a bit of time to grow up? If we say that suicide is acceptable, then those teens may very well take that as society telling them to do it, and many of them would because they're too young to understand that the pain they're feeling is short lived, and there is help.

If you say it's okay, then you basically give the green light for every single person that is depressed, out of work, dumped, bullied, or just plain sad, to end it all. The majority of those people can be helped, and can go on to live happy fulfilled lives.

The bottom line is that suicide does affect everyone. You don't want to hear it, but the pain of those left behind is just as real and just as valid as the pain you're feeling now. The only difference, if you choose the selfish act of suicide, your pain will end. Those left behind live with that pain forever.

There is a place for every person in this world in my opinion. Just because you don't fit in in one place doesn't mean you don't fit in place with the whole world.

Altonweg,

I'm not saying it was 'wrong' to add personal details just people often get upset (rightfully so) about some personal situation that happened to them and then try to attach it to w/e problems others have in life. When you get into specifics, everyone has had different circumstances and reacted to it differently. Anyway, regardless again, I'm not addressing someone's uncle's problems about their suicide, I have no idea the details of THAT person's situations because I didn't know them. As far as what you said about murder, I don't agree killing yourself is not murder. Murder is killing someone else, again, not talking about assisted suicide (which some say is also murder). Also, again, not talking about some teenager and green lighting other people to do things, I was just referring to myself. Personally I am sick and tired of hearing about how leaving the world, will make other people suffer. I can't sit around and live for other people anymore. Talking about selfishness and their pain continuing, I'm tired of hearing about it. If it is selfish than so be it, I don't get up in the morning and try to live for other people and not going to continue to do so for their benefit either. Too bad. I'm not going to continue this conversation, thanks again to everyone that participated.

Hot, I don't think you understand where I'm coming from. It's often hard to convey your thoughts in writing. Tone, facial expression, pauses in speech, they play a large part in conveying our thoughts. You can't get any of that in writing.

Sadly writing is the only form of communication I have on this site.

I have to ask. What exactly did you want to hear? What did you want to discuss? Did you want us to tell you that it's okay to consider suicide? As caring human beings, none of us can do that. I haven't met you, but you are a fellow human being, and therefore I have to do my best to help you, and to dissuade you from suicide. Surely you can understand that.


I'm not addressing someone's uncle's problems about their suicide, I have no idea the details of THAT person's situations because I didn't know them.

That's the problem. We also don't know you, so how can we tell you what you want to hear? We don't know what you're going through, we don't know what you've had to deal with it. We don't know anything about you other then the 28 posts you've made on this site, and that's not enough to go by. Even a therapist wouldn't be able to offer a "diagnosis" or a solution in only 28 short stories about your life.

None of us is expecting you to live for others. I only wish that you could live for yourself. I don't know what help you need, but I do know that there is help out there. You may not have found the right help yet, or you've given up because everything you have tried hasn't helped, but I urge you to keep looking.

I cannot give up trying to help you, even if you're not finding my words helpful. It's often very hard to come onto threads like this, because there is no "right" thing to say. We can only be here to listen, and hope that you get the help you need. You see, we don't know you, but I guarantee that I will be thinking about you, and that, because we've "met", I will worry about you. I can also say that if you take that next step, I would be upset about your loss, because I'm human, and I do care, as we all do. Otherwise we wouldn't have even posted on this thread. It's a lot easier to walk away then it is to involve yourself in something like this, allow yourself to feel for another human being. Those of us that posted, we posted for one reason only, to help you.

Please, accept that help.

Instead of discussing why suicide isn't acceptable in society, perhaps we should discuss what you've tried to do to feel better. Have you tried medication? If so, what medication have you tried? Have you tried therapy? Do you have friends or family that can help you find the resources you need? What can we do?

Some of the responses here remind me of the parent who says eat your vegetables because of the starving children in India. The question for SOCIETY approving or not is (aside from the terminally ill) what age is too young, how misfit is too misfit, how depressed is too depressed. But that's not what she is asking. She is asking for responses from people who have felt that the option is not valid even when they want it to be, having exhausted all avenues of feeling otherwise (HHV, correct me if I'm wrong).

I can say for myself that I'm alive not so much because of the option being valid or not but because actively bringing about my own death is killing, and I don't want to kill, and the 'quiet' methods like overdosing fail more often than not. I want it to be socially acceptable. I want to check into the euthenasia booth down the street, when I'm ready. The truth is that I could hop on a plane to a certain country and pay 10 grand for it, legally. Shocked? People do it, people who have no illness, no pain, no depression, and it's legal. I don't have 10 grand at the moment.

When you know that this option exists, HHV, I think you may find a certain relief? It's actually sort of liberating to know it, I think. When I read about your past regarding sex, I wanted you to explore more ways to get help, but we are not here to judge you when you say you have exhausted them. That is a double whammy, on top of the 'think of all the people you are hurting' bit. We need to listen and hear what you are saying. Keep in mind, however, that you are asking for a lot of opposition, and you have to have expected that, right?

I have stuck my neck out to be chopped off yet again. But OP wants an answer from someone who knows how she feels, and I do. I actually do think that my response here is appropriate for Emotional Wellbeing. It's a concept of wellbeing that takes some getting used to. It really is liberating to know you aren't necessarily mentally ill, or selfish. And if it's liberation it's good for your wellbeing.

Joy, I won't chop your neck. I see what you're saying. Can you see where I'm coming from?

My thought is this. This thread is a cry for help. When someone decides that suicide is the only option, they don't reach out for help, the grab the pills or the razor and they do it.

The OP is asking for help, albeit in a very backwards sort of way. To me that means she still has hope that she can live a happy life. To me that's a cry for help, and I cannot sit her and not answer that cry. It simply isn't in me.

I will go to bed tonight hoping that Hot doesn't decide to end it. I will worry if she doesn't post again. I will berate myself because I possibly didn't say the right thing, the thing she needed to hear in order to not do what she's very obviously threatening to do.

The people that are left behind do feel pain, and that's not something that should be ignored. Because I posted here, I've opened myself to that pain. I only hope that one little thing we've said, even one sentence, one word, will help Hot realize that this shouldn't be an option. There are others.

I worried too, and messaged her to respond, and she did.
In a way I am glad she is hearing the full range of responses.
People ask, and we answer with differing views, and they take what they want.

We don't really know what state of mind you might be in, HHV, when you are offline and awake in the middle of the night, or if some thoughtless stranger makes you feel awful tomorrow. So some delicacy really is in order. If you are anything like me, sometimes even the most solid philosophical views distill down to basic, raw, and very personal emotion. It doesn't mean your views change or go away. That's why the world has different views about everything, right? We form them based on what we know, what we feel, what we have experienced, no matter how many big words and references we use.

We form them based on what we know, what we feel, what we have experienced, no matter how many big words and references we use.

Exactly.

That's what I tried telling Hot.

We can't give her the answer she's seeking because we all base our answers on our personal feelings, things we've gone through, and things that have affected us.

I have been in a suicidal place many times.

I suffer from depression. When both of my parents died 6 months apart, I was ready to go with them, despite the fact that I had a wonderful husband and a 2 year old son at the time.

I reached out for help, and I got it.

There are still dark days, but there are more good days then dark.

I've been there. I've had the pills in my hand ready to down them and have it all be over with. I was ready to end it.

If I had I wouldn't be here now. I wouldn't have my two wonderful kids, I wouldn't have all the animals I've rescued.

But, my life isn't the same as Hot's. I can't tell her how to feel, or what to do. What worked for me won't necessarily work for her. We're all very different, and depression is not black and white.

I just know that now that I've posted here, I can't just walk away. I have to help. I have to make a difference in some way. The only problem is, I don't know how to do that. I don't want to say the wrong thing. I'm so afraid that I will or already have.