Hello:

Tom wanted a thread about this guy. Ok. What can you say about him? Pat Buchanan say's he's RIGHT (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=326069), ceptin for the shooting... Guess there'll be more.

excon

Pat's an idiot. It's like the Greenies saying Ted Kaczynski was right .

In no way do these means justify any ends (an end that I disagree with anyway since I think Muslims are just fine, for a Muslim is not necessarily and in most cases absolutely is NOT a terrorist).

ANYWAY... so this guy is on the "right" in Norway, and now people are comparing his "right" extremism to American "right" extremist.

The "right" that he formerly subscribed to and since left because it was too extreme was Populism and Conservative Liberalism. Progress Party. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progress_Party_(Norway))

Soooo... perspective please.

Back to the basics: his actions sicken me, and I believe him to be worthy of the worst kind of punishment of which Norway is capable. Maybe Viking torture? In all seriousness, his lawyers are saying he's insane... well duh. I say all the more reason to lock him up and isolate him forever. Scumbag.

and I believe him to be worthy of the worst kind of punishment of which Norway is capable
I believe that would be 21 years in jail as a max sentence .

If they decide to try him with Crimes Against Humanity the sentence is 30 years..

I think mass murder on this scale certainly comes under that heading.

Either way this "person" will not be leaving the prison system alive, either from incarceration or mental institution..

Really, they're that easy on murderers? Send him to Texas...

TBH, this is one of those very rare occasions that I completely agree with Capital Punishment.

TBH, this is one of those very rare occasions that I completely agree with Capital Punishment.
I am not one to think Capital Punishment is justified easily. In this case, we have massive casualties, ONE PERSON who is the clearly defined murderer, and he completely admits to it... add to his admission all of the witnesses.

He's completely, and without a doubt, guilty. He didn't instruct others to murder, he didn't do it behind closed doors. He did it in daylight, with witnesses, and he wielded THE murder weapon.

He should fry.

Hello again,

Here's what Glenn Beck had to say (http://play.lifegoesstrong.com/beck-breivik-two-peas-pod).. I guess he agrees with Pat.

"There was a shooting at a political camp," Beck said dismissively of last week's events, "which sounds a little like, you know, the Hitler youth. I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics? Disturbing. "

I don't know why I shouldn't use this thread to beat up on the right wing crazy's... They SO deserve it.

excon

By all means, Excon.

I just mean to say that Norway's right isn't America's right.

Apparently Norway's punishment isn't America's either >: (

I just mean to say that Norway's right isn't America's right.Hello again, sa:

You're absolutely right... They LOVE their universal health care. You hear NOTHING from them about that. They don't mind paying high taxes either, because they get LOTS of governmental services...

Where they're the same, is they don't like brown people invading what they consider their WHITE country.

excon

I dunno why I shouldn't use this thread to beat up on the right wing crazy's... They SO deserve it.

Go ahead, just be sure and beat up on the left-wing crazies, too.

Go ahead, just be sure and beat up on the left-wing crazies, too.Hello Steve:

I would, if they were saying the outrageous stuff the righty's are...

Here's another. They're doing their DAMNEDEST to DENY that this murderer is a CHRISTIAN, because they do NOT want the label Christian Terrorist attached to him... I don't blame 'em.

BUT, I'm reading in his manifesto that he's going to be PRAYING to God while he's doing his KILLING... I guess, you could say that he's yelling the CHRISTIAN equivalent of Alla Akbar...

Here are his words verbatim (http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/07/a_glimpse_into_the_deranged_mi.php): "I have not yet felt the need to ask God for strength, yet... But I'm pretty sure I will pray to God as I'm rushing through my city, guns blazing, with 100 armed system protectors pursuing me with the intention to stop and/or kill. I know there is a 80%+ chance I am going to die during the operation as I have no intention to surrender to them until I have completed all three primary objectives AND the bonus mission."

Looks like a Christian Terrorist to me..

excon

More of his words verbatim.. he writes on page 1307 of his manifesto:


"If you have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God then you are a religious Christian. Myself and many more like me do not necessarily have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and God. We do however believe in Christianity as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform. This makes us Christian.”

Generally, one must have faith in Jesus Christ to be a Christian. Believing in Christianity as "as a cultural, social, identity and moral platform" does not make one a Christian. Heck, believing in Christianity does not make one a Christian.

What's ironic is those who rush to condemn someone for associating Islam with terrorism are the same ones rushing to associate this one guy with Christianity. Now that's crazy.

P.S. Before we go on, allow me to condemn this atrocity and agree that he is a monster. Probably the only alleged "Christians" that might give this monster an atta boy are the Phelps, and they're no Christians either. That's the difference between Christians and Muslims, we all condemn terrorism. You won't find Christians rushing to praise Jesus for the murder of dozens of infidels, but it isn't hard to find Muslims praising Allah for the same.

This guy and other terrorists are messed up psychos who use popular and peaceful ideals to justify their psychosis.

Why can't people separate that?

This guy is ALSO NORWEGIAN! Let's make sure to associate all Norwegians as terrorists now! OH, he's a male! All males are terrorists! Same with blondes with blue eyes... looks like my boyfriend's a terrorist.

Come on, people. Turn everything into a "YOUR political party this" and "YOUR religion that". All these threads end up the same way and it's the same conversation over and over again. Y'all are just drinking the media's kool-aid and I know you're better than that!

As far as how religion plays into this whole thing... it's pretty clear to me that people are departing from the moral nature of religion when they kill each other because GOD told them to.

This guy and "Islamic" terrorists can call themselves "Christian" and "Islamic" all they want... but isn't it pretty clear to clear-minded people that they're just terrorists? I guess that goes back to the point I tried to make in my previous post.

This guy needs to be tried according to his crime: murdering massive amounts of innocent people. His reasons for doing so are moot because there is NO reason according to justice to do such a thing. Trying to argue based on those reasons isn't very logical.

A disgruntled ex-boyfriend just got 103 years in Colorado for attempting to kidnap and torture his ex, and when he got caught he attempted to kill the cop by shooting at him 3 times.

So... are ALL ex-boyfriends to be associated with this guy now? After all, they fit the bill... they're ex-boyfriends.

I don't know if I'm making my point... I just think it's all a strawman and people are allowing it to work on them.

Ex claims he didn't drink the Koolaid but I think he did. :)

P.S. I've always separated Islamic terrorists from your garden variety Muslim, but no you cannot separate the Muslim from the terrorism if it is in done in the name of, for the glory of and for the reward from Allah. Same would be true if in fact a Christian was doing the same in the name of Jesus. This guy doesn't fit the criteria of being a Christian by his own words.

ex claims he didn't drink the Koolaid but I think he did. :)

Oh, I wasn't even thinking of Ex's signature line when I said that!

Exy, that comment totally wasn't directed at YOU. It was directed at the whole conversation, here and nationally.

OH, he's a male! All males are terrorists!

You don't belong to N.O.W. do you? They believe that too and that all men are rapists and all sex is rape.


On the flip side this guy was playing a video game in his head. Mixed with steroids and ephedrin he was a train wreck waiting to happen. Its sad all those people had to die at his hands and I pray for their families.

You dont belong to N.O.W. do you? They believe that too and that all men are rapists and all sex is rape.

Ah, jeez. Lol.

No, no. But I should have known that any ludicrous thing I say to try and make a point actually has some nutty group of people behind it.

What you have here is a political nutcase, a person completely obscessed, you can't blame what he did on religion, but on a disturbed mind. His problem is the same sort of problem that allowed the halocaust. Europe is a place that has allowed a problem to grow until you get an individual who will take unilateral action

Hello again,

Here's what Glenn Beck had to say (http://play.lifegoesstrong.com/beck-breivik-two-peas-pod).. I guess he agrees with Pat.

"There was a shooting at a political camp," Beck said dismissively of last week's events, "which sounds a little like, you know, the Hitler youth. I mean, who does a camp for kids that's all about politics? Disturbing. "

I dunno why I shouldn't use this thread to beat up on the right wing crazy's... They SO deserve it.

excon

I guess Beck never heard of the Young Democrats and Young Republican organizations ,both of which conduct camps .

I saw all the blogs a couple days ago making the false comparison between this Nordic twit and the "right wing " Christians in America. They were calling him a Christian Jihadist .Nothing can be further from the truth.

From his own manifesto, Breivik claims Darwin and science as his "religion." He then indentifies he's "christian" (lower case my emphasis) in the context of European culture.

From the manifesto :
"As for the Church and science, it is essential that science takes an undisputed precedence over biblical teachings. Europe has always been the cradle of science, and it must always continue to be that way. Regarding my personal relationship with God, I guess I'm not an excessively religious man. I am first and foremost a man of logic. However, I am a supporter of a monocultural Christian Europe.“

Breivik is a product of the left's secular humanist education and culture. Breivik represents everything that "killed" Europe in the first place. One might argue, like Hitler, Breivik is a facist(National SOCIALIST) who wants to use "grand" memories of Europe to foster a "revival" of the holy Roman empire. He being the Knights Templar protector of the Empire.

More from the manifesto :

Q: Do I have to believe in God or Jesus in order to become a Justiciar Knight?

A: As this is a cultural war, our definition of being a Christian does not necessarily constitute that you are required to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus. Being a Christian can mean many things;

- That you believe in and want to protect Europe's Christian cultural heritage. The European cultural heritage, our norms (moral codes and social structures included), our traditions and our modern political systems are based on Christianity -Protestantism, Catholicism, Orthodox Christianity and the legacy of the European enlightenment (reasonis the primary source and legitimacy for authority).

It is not required that you have a personal relationship with God or Jesus in order to fight for our Christian cultural heritage and the European way. In many ways, our modern societies and European secularism is a result of European Christendom and the enlightenment. It is therefore essential to understand the difference between a "Christian fundamentalist theocracy" (everything we do not want) and a secular European society based on our Christian cultural heritage (what we do want). So no, you don't need to have a personal relationship with God or Jesus to fight for our Christian cultural heritage. It is enough that you are a Christian-agnostic or a Christian atheist (an atheist who wants to preserve at least the basics of the European Christian cultural legacy (Christian holidays, Christmas and Easter)). The PCCTS, Knights Templar is therefore not a religious organisation but rather a Christian "culturalist" military order.
This scum is the Hitler youth Glenn Beck... not the kids in the political summer camp.

Sorry Tom but I object to this fellow being thought of in a Christian context, He is not even a cultural christian he just thinks having a christian culture is a good idea probably in a historical context, but his actions place him outside of christian thinking. The reason Europe has Muslim problem is its christian culture which is charitable towards the disadvantaged. If it had a Muslim culture Christian immigration would not be permitted. Just because Nazi soldiers had a Christain inscription on their belt buckle didn't make them christians and what this fellow is a some sort of nazi soldier bent on exterminating what he doesn't like. In any case we don't know what he really thinks becaue he has lifted his manifesto from another anarchist

I didn't say I agree with him.. You are quite correct in your assessment that the guy is as mad as a hatter .

I see more Charles Manson in this idiot . Both tried to spark a larger conflict .

Just reading the few snippets of what people have posted of his writings HERE, let alone what I've read elsewhere... the guy is CLEARLY insane.

Just downright effing lunatic. To try and clump him in with any movement (religious OR political) merely because he claims those things is insane. Be intelligent, look at this guy's mentality, and decide for yourself. (stop listening to what the talking heads are saying, for the love of pete!)

EDIT--I mean talking heads as in news anchors... never stop listening to david byrne.

Hello again,

I don't believe he's a CHRISTIAN terrorist, either... I think he has POLITICAL objectives... I brought up the accusations so that you might see, that the Muslims who attack us, MIGHT not do it because of their religion... In fact, I think they take exception to our locking them away forever with NO trial.. I don't think they liked it too swell when we were torturing them either, and oh, yeah, they probably don't like being droned... I don't think the Iranians liked it when WE overthrew their elected leader and put in our own guy...

Yeah, we're screwing 'em over pretty good and I think they take exception to it.. While I believe there are plenty of Muslim terrorists, there's plenty of POLITICAL terrorists who HAPPEN to be Muslim..

excon

Hello again,

I don't believe he's a CHRISTIAN terrorist, either... I think he has POLITICAL objectives... I brought up the accusations so that you might see, that the Muslims who attack us, MIGHT not do it because of their religion... In fact, I think they take exception to our locking them away forever with NO trial.. I don't think they liked to swell when we were torturing them either, and oh, yeah, they probably don't like being droned... I don't think the Iranians liked it when WE overthrew their elected leader and put in our own guy...

Yeah, we're screwing 'em over pretty good and I think they take exception to it.. While I believe there are plenty of Muslim terrorists, there's plenty of POLITICAL terrorists who HAPPEN to be Muslim..

excon

OK Ex Muslim terrorists may not attack the US because they are Muslim but it is a fair bet they have been goaded into it by activists who are. Over the last fifty years we have had various terrorist groups; the PLA; violently opposed to Israel a political response but goaded on by extremist MUSLIM GROUPS, Hezbollah; Muslim or just Lebanese? Hamas; Muslim or just Palastinian? Gaddafi; who knows what his beef was but Muslim. Al Qaeda; Muslim or just Arab? The Taliban; Muslim or just Pashtu? The list goes on. All right I'll grant you the unibomber wasn't Muslim, the Norwegian nutjob wasn't Muslim and the Red Brigades weren't Muslim but a large number of these groups have objected to US foreign policy. So if it isn't the Muslims stirring them up what I say is ask your government to suck its scone in!

I brought up the accusations so that you might see, that the Muslims who attack us, MIGHT not do it because of their religion... In fact, I think they take exception to our locking them away forever with NO trial

Ex, come on, you cannot separate their terrorism from their religion. As I said, and you've heard it and read it yourself I know... they do so in the name of, for the glory and praise of, and for the reward from Allah.

Al Qaeda put it plainly in their manifesto, "Why We Fight America." :


The Entire Earth Must Be Subjected to Islam

"How can [he] possibly [accept humiliation and inferiority] when he knows that his nation was created to stand at the center of leadership, at the center of hegemony and rule, at the center of ability and sacrifice? How can [he] possibly [accept humiliation and inferiority] when he knows that the [divine] rule is that the entire earth must be subject to the religion of Allah – not to the East, not to the West - to no ideology and to no path except for the path of Allah?. "

"As long as this Muslim knows and believes in these facts, he will not - even for a single moment - stop striving to achieve it, even if it costs him his soul... his time, his property, and his son, as it is said, 'Say [to the believers]: If your fathers and your sons and your brethren and your wives and your kinsfolk and the worth you have acquired and the trade, the dullness of which you apprehend, and the dwellings that you fancy are dearer to you than Allah and His Messenger, and striving in His cause, then wait until Allah issues His judgment. Allah guides not the disobedient people... '"

OK, separate their faith from their terrorism.

Ex, come on, you cannot separate their terrorism from their religion. Hello again, Steve:

I CAN, and DO - which is something YOU find no problem doing when it comes to WHITE terrorists...

excon

PS> (edited) When you say it's their RELIGION that makes them pissed off at us, it allows you to overlook just how terrible we've been to them.

We understand Christianity very well and can say with plenty of conviction that Breivik is NOT Christian.

Do we know Islam so well? Perhaps Al-Qaeda manipulates the meaning of Allah's word and the Quran in the same way Breivik, and Westboro church, do the bible.

I don't know a whole lot about Islam, I'll be honest. I have attended a lecture by an Islam scholar who brought up many points from the Quran that show Al-Qaeda is either very misguided in their reading of the holy works, or they are just flat out manipulating a good thing for their evil causes.

I certainly see Excon's point, here. It's the same point we were making, except he is extending it to Al-Qaeda.

Hello again, Steve:

I CAN, and DO - which is something YOU find no problem doing when it comes to WHITE terrorists...

Funny, that I'm the one supposedly with my eyes closed and you can't connect Islam and terrorism using the words "The Entire Earth Must Be Subjected to Islam."


PS> (edited) When you say it's their RELIGION that makes them pissed off at us, it allows you to overlook just how terrible we've been to them.

I didn't say their religion makes them pissed off at us, THEY said their religion demands they kill us.

Funny, that I'm the one supposedly with my eyes closed and you can't connect Islam and terrorism using the words "The Entire Earth Must Be Subjected to Islam."

I didn't say their religion makes them pissed off at us, THEY said their religion demands they kill us.

They=Terrorists. "They" are NOT your typical Islamic Muslim.

Same as Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist church (who do what they do because GOD told them to in the BIBLE) are NOT your typical Christians.

People are smart and resourceful. When they see something powerful like a holy book that is read and revered by millions (if not billions) of people, they CAN and WILL find a way to use that power to do evil. It's a common theme in religion... but that doesn't make those who truly follow its tenants bad, or evil. It's particularly ignorant of someone to prosecute someone by comparing them to an evil person who so happened to take advantage of his or her religion.

I didn't say their religion makes them pissed off at us, THEY said their religion demands they kill us.Hello again, Steve:

Simple math should prove you wrong... If "THEY" want to kill us, there's 2 BILLION of 'em, (http://www.islamicpopulation.com/world_general.html) and I think I could tell if 2 BILLION of the worlds people wanted to kill me.

So, by MY reckoning, there's only small factions of Muslims who think that way... SA got it right in that, I'm SURE they distort Islam, kind of the way Westboro Baptist Church distorts Christianity...

I suppose I COULD say Christians (speaking of Westboro - but INCLUDING you) are fanatical, radical, and their RELIGION makes them NUTS. I COULD say that, but it wouldn't be true, would it?

excon

I suppose I COULD say Christians (speaking of Westboro - but INCLUDING you) are fanatical, radical, and their RELIGION makes them NUTS. I COULD say that, but it wouldn't be true, would it?

excon

YOU could say that, but you don't. Many people DO say that... does that make it true?

They=Terrorists. "They" are NOT your typical Islamic Muslim.

Same as Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist church (who do what they do because GOD told them to in the BIBLE) are NOT your typical Christians.

Hey, I already said I've always made that distinction.

Hey, I already said I've always made that distinction.

How though? You are comfortable saying Breivik is definitely not Christian, yet his manifesto has Jesus and God all over it. Yet you cannot say that Al-Qaeda ISN'T Muslim simply because they invoke Allah?

I suppose I just don't see this as anything but a double standard...

Ex, come on, you cannot separate their terrorism from their religion.
Hey, I already said I've always made that distinction.Hello again, Steve:

Always?

excon

Simple math should prove you wrong... If "THEY" want to kill us, there's 2 BILLION of 'em, (http://www.islamicpopulation.com/world_general.html) and I think I could tell if 2 BILLION of the worlds people wanted to kill me.

So, by MY reckoning, there's only small factions of Muslims who think that way... SA got it right in that, I'm SURE they distort Islam, kinda the way Westboro Baptist Church distorts Christianity...

I suppose I COULD say Christians (speaking of Westboro - but INCLUDING you) are fanatical, radical, and their RELIGION makes them NUTS. I COULD say that, but it wouldn't be true, would it?

excon

Are we really getting so damned literal that you guys can't understand "they" to mean only the Islamic terrorists I'm referring to? Really?

Tell you what, I'll list all the known jihadists and their motives I can come up with and you list all the known Christian terrorists and their motives that you can come up with. OK?

Steve, a Jihad is an inner struggle of spiritual man against his human self.

Once again, jahidists are just manipulating the word for their evil.

But really, there have been TONS of Christian terrorists... we can start with the crusades, move over to India, and then to Northern Ireland, take a stop in Kansas, and then head on over to Norway. I missed A LOT in there.

Are we really getting so damned literal that you guys can't understand "they" to mean only the Islamic terrorists I'm referring to? Really?
I don't mean to put you in a corner here, but I just want to point out the distinction that we should be making here.

You said yourself that their excuse is their religion tells them to kill us. Do you ACCEPT that excuse?

What I'm saying is that I DON'T accept that. I KNOW that MOST Muslims are peaceful, I KNOW that their religion does NOT demand they kill us.

Just as you DON'T accept that Breivik is Christian, and I DON'T accept that anything he did was truly in the name of Christian culture, morals, or God... I DON'T accept that Al-Qaeda are Islamic...

Steve, a Jihad is an inner struggle of spiritual man against his human self.

Once again, jahidists are just manipulating the word for their evil.

I know all of this, I've been around a while.


But really, there have been TONS of Christian terrorists... we can start with the crusades, move over to India, and then to Northern Ireland, take a stop in Kansas, and then head on over to Norway. I missed A LOT in there.

Today, list all the known Christian terrorists operating today. The Crusades are irrelevant, the last known crusade ended around 1434, 577 years ago.

Hello again, Steve:

Always?

excon

Yes sir. In spite of all the efforts to portray me as having never done so, I always have.

Today, list all the known Christian terrorists operating today. The Crusades are irrelevant, the last known crusade ended around 1434, 577 years ago.

That would take research on my end as I don't keep up with the names or operations of Christian terrorists any more than I do Islamic terrorists.

If I were to do that research and come up with my list, and yours were bigger... what conclusion would you draw, and where would it take this debate/conversation?

Today, list all the known Christian terrorists operating today. Hello again, Steve:

I can't. But, I betcha Homeland Security can. And, I betcha there's LOTS of them. Surly, you don't doubt that there ARE Christian terrorists... Or, maybe you do.

See... Here's my problem... Frankly, I think there are MANY right wing militias - SOME of which are planning violence upon our country, and whose members HAPPEN to BE Christian... I'll bet some of them even PRAY a LOT too, and maybe wear crosses on their camo's. Given your definition of Muslim terrorism, seems to me these groups could be called Christian terrorists.

But, calling them Christian terrorists would BLIND us to who the REAL terrorists are - kind of like what YOU do with Muslims... That blindness has caused two, maybe three, noooo, four - Ok, FIVE wars to have been started by us.

excon

See... Here's my problem... Frankly, I think there are MANY right wing militias, SOME of which are planning violence upon our country

I hope you're wrong :(

I don't mean to put you in a corner here, but I just want to point out the distinction that we should be making here.

You said yourself that their excuse is their religion tells them to kill us. Do you ACCEPT that excuse?

I didn't say it was an excuse, with Islamic terrorists (http://www.memriglobaljihadnews.org/) it's their motivation.


What I'm saying is that I DON'T accept that. I KNOW that MOST Muslims are peaceful, I KNOW that their religion does NOT demand they kill us.

Agreed.


Just as you DON'T accept that Breivik is Christian, and I DON'T accept that anything he did was truly in the name of Christian culture, morals, or God... I DON'T accept that Al-Qaeda are Islamic...

OK, maybe they aren't true Muslims, I'm not a Muslim so I'm in no position to make that judgment. I can't say whether someone is or isn't a Christian either. I can say the Phelps behavior is not Christian.

My question to you is, why is it virtually every Christian denomination, group and individual is quick to denounce any atrocity and distance themselves from any that sully the name of our God, but you don't see many Muslims jumping to denounce terror done in the name of their god? Where are all those moderate Muslims?

I actually don't know a lot of Muslims, and I know our media wouldn't give the denouncing Muslims airtime.

I have read a couple autobiographies/biographies (3 cups of tea and In the Land of Invisible Women stick out for this). I'm only taking the author's word for it, but in 3 Cups of Tea, the Muslims in Pakistan spat at the Afghan border because of the 9/11 attacks. They called Osama bin Laden an abomination. The author said that all of the tribesmen and Pakistani men and a couple Afghan men on the other border were disgusted with ObL and Al-Qaeda, and supported America.

So... I don't know, maybe we don't hear about it because no one gives those people airtime, or we don't KNOW those people.

I can't.

I can do my part, why can't you list any?


But, I betcha Homeland Security can.

Oh yeah, they've already put out their right-wing warning remember? The Obama administration jumped into the fear-mongering with both feet early on.

Where are all those moderate Muslims?Hello again, Steve:

How many would satisfy you? How hard to you look for them? You DO know that most Christians have radios and can read... You DO know that most Muslims don't.

If the point you're trying to make, is that because you don't HEAR an outcry, means (1) there isn't one, which, of course, means (2) they SUPPORT the terrorists... If THAT'S your point, I think you're dead wrong...

But, EVEN if there wasn't one word of denunciation... It means NOTHING... I certainly don't denounce every wrong that people who look like me perpetrate. That does NOT mean I support them.

excon

I actually don't know a lot of Muslims, and I know our media wouldn't give the denouncing Muslims airtime.

Oh they would give them air time, if more Muslims would do so the media could stop being apologists for Islam and let them speak for themselves. Look, I'm not saying Muslims haven't spoke out, some have. All should. If they are troubled by terror done in their name they would speak as Christians do when someone inevitably links us to some atrocity. What the Oslo monster did is appalling, we pray for and sympathize with the victims, and we denounce it in the strongest terms.

If the point you're trying to make, is that because you don't HEAR an outcry, means (1) there isn't one, which, of course, means (2) they SUPPORT the terrorists... If THAT'S your point, I think you're dead wrong...

Read my last post and stop guessing what I mean.


But, EVEN if there wasn't one word of denunciation... It means NOTHING... I certainly don't denounce every wrong that people who look like me perpetrate. That does NOT mean I support them.


Maybe that's because no one is trying to unfairly link to you any atrocity. The left and their media sympathizers are quick to apologize for Islam and quicker to blame Christians and conservatives for any evil before any evidence is in to support it. The guy in Kentucky that killed himself, the Tucson shooter, the Oslo killings, the Tiller Killer, the debt discussions... anything and everything is blamed on us, most of the time without merit. If you were blamed for everything evil under the sun unfairly you'd change your tune.

P.S. Heck, we probably killed Amy Winehouse, too

Oh they would give them air time, if more Muslims would do so the media could stop being apologists for Islam and let them speak for themselves. Look, I'm not saying Muslims haven't spoke out, some have. All should. If they are troubled by terror done in their name they would speak as Christians do when someone inevitably links us to some atrocity. What the Oslo monster did is appalling, we pray for and sympathize with the victims, and we denounce it in the strongest terms.

It might not be fair to compare how a Christian reacts to how a Muslim reacts. Two extremely different cultures.

Just look at how Japan and USA differ in how they remember Pearl Harbor/Hiroshima.

If you were blamed for everything evil under the sun unfairly you'd change your tune.Hey Steve:

I'm a Jew.

excon

Hello again, Steve:
You DO know that most Christians have radios and can read... You DO know that most Muslims don't. Excellent point. Much of the Middle Eastern countries severely underfund their education systems, and those that are funded are funded BY extremist groups. (My source is, again, 3 Cups of Tea)

Hey Steve:

I'm a Jew.

I get it, but who is blaming Jews for things such as I mentioned?

I'm a Jew.


Name ONE instance that your people were blamed for something and massively prosecuted for it.

Oh, wait...

It might not be fair to compare how a Christian reacts to how a Muslim reacts. Two extremely different cultures.

Just look at how Japan and USA differ in how they remember Pearl Harbor/Hiroshima.

People are people. Muslims in the west have no excuse for not being quick to denounce terror in their name.

I get it, but who is blaming Jews for things such as I mentioned?

Maybe I need some help with the "things such as I mentioned" portion of your question. Do you mean linking Jews with terrorism?

I'm sure you don't mean linking Jews to atrocities. Just in the last centuries, Jews have been blamed for major wars, failed economies, and banker take-overs. That doesn't even go into the more ancient prosecution of Jews.

People are people. Muslims in the west have no excuse for not being quick to denounce terror in their name. True, I can't recall hearing about a big denunciation of Al-Qaeda by any Muslims.

I've had a friend from Pakistan denounce Islam because of Al-Qaeda. But he's the only Muslim friend I've had...

Maybe I need some help with the "things such as I mentioned" portion of your question. Do you mean linking Jews with terrorism?

Um, no. I said, "The guy in Kentucky that killed himself, the Tuscon shooter, the Oslo killings, the Tiller Killer, the debt discussions..."


I'm sure you don't mean linking Jews to atrocities. Just in the last centuries, Jews have been blamed for major wars, failed economies, and banker take-overs. That doesn't even go into the more ancient prosecution of Jews.

Like I said to ex, I get it. To be more clear, you don't see talking heads in this country on TV or in print rushing to link Jews with things such as the examples I gave. You will find them quickly, almost too choreographed, rush to deem something the work of a Christian, a conservative, a far-right extremist or just paint us as "right-wing extremists" for as little as wanting congress to cut spending.

I get it, but who is blaming Jews for things such as I mentioned?Hello again, Steve

Amy Winehouse? Let me look.

excon

Like I said to ex, I get it. To be more clear, you don't see talking heads in this country on TV or in print rushing to link Jews with things such as the examples I gave. You will find them quickly, almost too choreographed, rush to deem something the work of a Christian, a conservative, a far-right extremist or just paint us as "right-wing extremists" for as little as wanting congress to cut spending.

Oh okay gotcha, sorry for my misunderstanding.

And I can't agree with you more about the media rushing to blame the right-wing extremists.

Sure there are extremists, and sure they're nutty, and sure they've done some crazy stuff. BUT I'm rather sick of everything conservative being blown off as "right-wing" and therefore not worth even considering.

Trust me, it's irritated me many times. There are conservative things that I very much agree with, but they don't stand much of a chance because of how the media has painted conservatives.

That's why I hate the media. Bunch of trolls!

Oh okay gotcha, sorry for my misunderstanding.

Not a problem. And yes, conservatives have something to add but we can't get a word in edgewise because we're all presumably dangerous nuts.

Not a problem. And yes, conservatives have something to add but we can't get a word in edgewise because we're all presumably dangerous nuts.

Until, of course, we have a Republican president and anything liberal is nuts ;)

I particularly remember not being "for" the war on terror in 2005, and a friend of mine yelling "terrorist sympathizer!" at me... which was definitely a heavy sentiment at the time.

It's sad, really. People ought to just breath and think for themselves.

Not a problem. And yes, conservatives have something to add but we can't get a word in edgewise because we're all presumably dangerous nuts.Hello again, Steve:

I don't know... You always tell us how FOX beats the crap out of MSNBC... That's a word or two edgewise... Then you got a 60 to 1 advantage in the talk radio business. Nobody wants to listen to lefty's on the radio...

So, from MY perspective, you get your words in. You get a LOT of words in. But, even with ALL those words, you're still depicted as dangerous nuts. I don't know why. Ok, yes I do.

excon

Yes, conservative talk radio is quite a big deal...

Alex Jones WOULD be all right with me if he weren't so angry!

Hello again, Steve:

I dunno... You always tell us how FOX beats the crap outta MSNBC... That's a word or two edgewise....

That's cable news only. Fox' biggest draw, O'Reilly, gets 3.1 million. The 3 networks evening newscasts total 20.55 million. I still remember some math and 20.55 million is a heckuva lot more than 3.1 million. Add to that, CNN, MSNBC, Headline News and the print media and the Fox audience is dwarfed by the rest of the media.

Fox audience is dwarfed by the rest of the media.Hello again, Steve:

Given your advantage in right wing radio, I'd say we're even. Plus, right wingers YELL louder than anybody else, and that's got to count for something..

excon

LOL, I imagine like me, most people have the radio on all day at work, we aren't really listening. People make a point to sit and watch the news. But I will acknowledge the conservative advantage in radio, no one wants to listen to shrill liberals all day. Not even liberals.

The point is, the liberal media is louder than conservative media. MRC monitors hundreds of outlets for bias. Media Matters monitors one. You know why, you even made a point to admit it (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/media-liberal-you-betcha-588665.html).

Gotcha there, eh buddy?

Nobody wants to listen to lefty's on the radio...

I listen to Tom Hartman every day on my drive home. It's better than listening to Comedy channel.

Fort Hood Plot: AWOL U.S. Serviceman Arrested (http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/fort-hood-plot-awol-us-serviceman-arrested/story?id=14179096)

I have no comment.

I have no comment.Hello again, Steve:

I do...

In SPITE of the ZILLIONS of $$'s the NSA is spending to spy on us, and in SPITE of all the wars we're fighting to get the terrorists, and in SPITE of all the torture we could ever do, we WOULDN'T have caught this terrorist...

Good old fashioned police work did.

excon

The reason you wouldn't have caught this terrorist Ex is you wouldn't have been looking for him , You took ten years to find Osama bin Laden so catching this fellow would have been beyond your resources. He was right out there in plain sight. I expect that some of those fabled budget cuts will be in the area of inefficient and ineffective security services

Good old fashioned police work did.

The guy approached the gun dealer who sold the weapon to Major Hasan . The dealer became suspicious and called the cops.

It was luck that he was caught .It had nothing to do with "good old fashion police work".

Don't tell me a gun control system actually works?

don't tell me a gun control system actually works?

Depends on how you define "works"...

Because it brought in one guy out of how many others?

It wasn't about gun control. The jihadist went into a gun shop and asked the dealer about smokeless gunpowder and if he could buy a large QTY.
This dealer ,having already dealt with one jihadist at Fort Hood became suspicious.

These so called police tactics are not what has prevented domestic attacks. The guy in Times Square.. the underwear and shoebombers were all brought down by a vigilant and in some cases heroic populace .

These so called police tactics are not what has prevented domestic attacks. .Hello again, tom:

If police tactics INCLUDE listening to snitches, then police work absolutely DID prevent these attacks.. And, cops DO listen to snitches..

Although, I supported the war in Afghanistan in the beginning, it WAS a knee jerk reaction.. And, yes, it's easy to Monday morning quarterback it... But, we should have approached it as a POLICE ACTION, as opposed to a military one.. Clearly, the military one isn't working out, whereas the POLICE ACTION that killed Bin Laden, did.

I believe you'd call the action that killed Bin Laden a military one, but I'd remind you that police agencies don't look a great deal different than military units these days.. They HAVE helicopters. They HAVE night vision. They HAVE big guns. And, they wouldn't have had any more permission to enter Pakistan than the military did.

But, you DO understand that I'm not talking about the POLICE particularly. I'm talking about the kind of engagement that's entered into.. In fact the military is perfectly capable of police action..

The bottom line is, I'm not seeing much success from YEARS of war and TRILLIONS of $$'s spent.

excon

The bottom line is, I'm not seeing much success from YEARS of war and TRILLIONS of $$'s spent.

excon

Come now Ex haven't you read the exploits of the military lately, dozens killed in a raid on the Huggari network, huge halls of narcotics, the Taliban leadership decimated. How can you say you are not seeing success in the face of such propaganda? Is it cost effective, no, but wars never are. What we need are some of those police actions where you ride in on your white charger otherwise known as a helicopter, shoot up the enemy, capture whoever are left over and ride out. It's the stuff of legends. How come you didn't capture Bin Laden that way? Oh you did and it was a great success, particularly in foreign relations

Apparently the monster is in DC... the Tea Party. Maureen Dowd writes (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/opinion/washington-chain-saw-massacre.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss):


They were like cannibals, eating their own party and leaders alive. They were like vampires, draining the country’s reputation, credit rating and compassion. They were like zombies, relentlessly and mindlessly coming back again and again to assault their unnerved victims, Boehner and President Obama. They were like the metallic beasts in “Alien” flashing mouths of teeth inside other mouths of teeth, bursting out of Boehner’s stomach every time he came to a bouquet of microphones.

And you complained about Glenn Beck?

Stupid opinion piece. She's in the same category as Beck - fanatical.

Hello again, Steve:

Ok, the lefty's are spiteful winers... Now, let's talk about that fine fellow, Congressman West... He's a prig.

excon

For calling out Wasserman-Schultz or what?

For calling out Wasserman-Schultz or what?Hello again, Steve:

There's more?

excon

You tell me.

Hello again, Steve:

So, in your world, you got to be boorish MORE than once in order to qualify as a prig. In mine, once is enough.
excon

Boorish for calling out a coward that dissed him from the House floor after he left? At least he responded directly to her instead of behind her back. Or call her a terrorist or something like that.

At least he responded directly to her instead of behind her back. Hello again, Steve:

Nahhh... This is what he said: Look, Debbie, I understand that after I departed the House floor you directed your floor speech comments directly towards me. Let me make myself perfectly clear, you want a personal fight, I am happy to oblige. You are the most vile, unprofessional ,and despicable member of the US House of Representatives. If you have something to say to me, stop being a coward and say it to my face, otherwise, shut the heck up.

And, he said it by EMAIL!!!

Bwa, ha ha ha ha.

excon

And? He has it on record via email to her directly and cc'd to House leaders. I stand on what I said, he didn't talk about her behind her back on the House Floor AFTER she left.

Hello again, Steve:

Hmmm. You don't get the hypocrisy of demanding that she say things to HIS FACE, sent by EMAIL?? I guess it's lost on you. Bummer.

excon

Geez ex, I'm not a dummy, I'm kicking your a$$ in fantasy basesball. You are the one not getting it, to his face means not on the House floor while he isn't present. Whether it's by email or in person is irrelevant, he didn't call her out behind her back as she did him.