I have seen some recent posts where long-term members have extremely chastised the OPs. I will not go into detail to which threads these are. But let us all remember that the OPs are here to get some help.

In some instances they are in extreme pain, yet they post in other areas information to the contrary. These members are reaching out for help, yet what I have seen happening is that they are getting called out and their conflicting posts are getting picked apart.

Let us all remember that in times of turmoil we all can have conflicting feelings. These people are here for help, not criticism.

There was a thread in the Bereavement section (it has been removed so don't try to look for it) that really hit me hard. I realize that sometimes we have to look up other posts from members to get a whole and complete story, but remember that feelings, at times, are conflicting and that what they post in one thread may not be what they are feeling in another thread.

In the end, if you are not here to help people, keep your thoughts to yourself. I am just as guilty as the next person is, but this particular thread was extremely hurtful. Not only to the OP, but to anyone going through what that OP was experiencing.

Please, I ask you, remember what we are here for!

In some instances they are in extreme pain, yet they post in other areas information to the contrary. These members are reaching out for help, yet what I have seen happening is that they are getting called out and their conflicting posts are getting picked apart.We are only human and sometimes it looks like the OP is playing us. No one likes to be played and I don't have a problem with asking them about a post they made in another forum that contradicts what they say.

Look, I've been played too, and I've admitted that I am as guilty as the next person. However, this one in particular was extremely cruel, and as such, has been removed.

I'm just trying to say that we have to look at all sides before responding. And, since you don't play in the "feel good" sections of AMHD NK, this really doesn't apply to you. This applies to the people who respond in the Relationship/Bereavement/Death & Dying/Emotional, etc. forums.

I sometimes make people feel good. :)

I sometimes make people feel good. :)

Really?

Really?

Check yoself before you wreck yoself!

I've noticed an astounding lack of compassion the past few months on here, particularly on the Law boards (since that's where I spend most of my time). Yes, there are players out there. So what? If someone's playing you on here the only thing that can be damaged is pride. Possible damage to pride is not enough of a reason to act as cynically as I've been seeing many experts act.

Hello:

Business is bad. Some will tell you it's because of the recession... Some will say it's because of Google... Some will say it's because of the "comments" feature...

But, I think, it's because we've become a**holes. If they ask about sex, we DEMAND to know how old they are. If they use text speak, we come down HARD on 'em. If they don't spell correctly, or use proper grammar, we ridicule them. God forbid they should give us a reddie! If we recognize their name, we LOOK for reasons to attack them. If we err, we err on the WRONG SIDE!

I have looked for the enemy, and it is US!

excon

Some will say it's because of the "comments" feature...
This and the whole new user experience as they are faced with that awful interface.

Hello:

Business is bad. Some will tell you it's because of the recession... Some will say it's because of Google... Some will say it's because of the "comments" feature...

But, I think, it's because we've become a**holes. If they ask about sex, we DEMAND to know how old they are. If they use text speak, we come down HARD on 'em. If they don't spell correctly, or use proper grammar, we ridicule them. God forbid they should give us a reddie! If we recognize their name, we LOOK for reasons to attack them. If we err, we err on the WRONG SIDE!

I have looked for the enemy, and it is US!

excon

A million greenies to you Exy!

I do think it's better to assume the OP is genuine and in need of help. So what if that sometimes isn't the case. The worst that can happen is that I will waste a bit of time on someone who is messing around. My choice to spend the time or not. I would rather do that than scare off someone in real need that we could just have really helped.

The ones I find most frustrating are the posts where everyone can see the OP's real issue except the OP. You know the ones where the OP is just looking for everyone to agree with their narrow point of view or indudlge them in a pity party. You will often see many people chipping in trying to get them to accept the truth and they do sometimes degenerate into people getting a little short with the OP in frustration. Not sure there's actually any real way of getting through with these sometimes.

I've noticed an astounding lack of compassion the past few months on here, particularly on the Law boards (since that's where I spend most of my time).


Here is one of the dividing lines that all of our visitors run into. On the "opinion" boards there is a lot more of give and take as the answer is based on an opinion. On "technical" boards, that by its very definition isn't allowed. The answers should conform to the area being answered in. The law is what it is and is often quoted. There are even stickies in most areas to address common questions and they still ask them. It doesn't matter how different you want to state it - signing away your rights isn't an option except for certain circumstances under the law. Its just not a simple deal. But in the law board its asked almost once a day it seems.

I agree we shouldn't berate nor admonish OP's to the extent it drives them away. But you need to look at the big picture involved too. We aren't just a one trick pony. But it seems to be getting that way.

We arent just a one trick pony. But it seems to be getting that way.
I was just reading up on the Google algorithm which led me to "content farm." If I understand this correctly, that's what the changed algorithm has us classified as now and why we don't rise to the top of the heap during a search.

content farm = used to describe a company that employs large numbers of often freelance writers to generate large amounts of textual content which is specifically designed to satisfy algorithms for maximal retrieval by automated search engines. Their main goal is to generate advertising revenue through attracting reader page views as first exposed in the context of social spam.

Content farm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_farm)

Their main goal is to generate advertising revenue through attracting reader page viewsHello Carol:

But, that's NOT what we do. Therefore there MUST be a way for a website to COUNTER the change that wasn't aimed at us in the first place... That's what the devs need to be doing instead of fiddling around... We're going down in flames...

excon

That's what the devs need to be doing instead of fiddling around... We're going down in flames...
Dear excon:

Is anything being done? I thought rpray or RickJ (hmmm, a bit of rhyming there) had said something would be figured out as to how to counter that notion that we are a content farm.

WG

Is anything being done? Hi WG:

I asked 'em, but I did it on the V93 skin as comment instead of an answer, and I guessed they missed it.

excon

Hi WG:

I asked 'em, but I did it on the V93 skin as comment instead of an answer, and I guessed they missed it.

excon
Dear excon:

What CAN be done? I looked at the algorithm on Wikipedia and then ran into the kitchen to find my bottle of Kahlua. I vaguely remember someone from the site saying all the ads make the difference.

WG

Dear excon:

What CAN be done? Hello again, WG:

If I knew how to write algorithms that attract traffic, I'd be a zillionaire.. SOMEBODY here knew how once.

excon

If I knew how to write algorithms that attract traffic, I'd be a zillionaire.. SOMEBODY here knew how once.
Dear excon:

No, no, no. I meant, is there something the site can do to change the numbers that get put into Google's algorithm? For instance, change how the site presents its ads. Or, become altruistic and get rid of all the ads. :) That certainly would shoot the site to the top of the heap.

WG

Dear excon:

Would the same situation (loss in traffic) have existed had the new skin never been invented and everyone was on the old ones(s)?

WG

No, no, no. I meant, is there something the site can doHello again, WG:

Who do you mean when you say "the site"? You and me, or the devs?? You and I can't do squat. The devs can, if they knew how. Like I said. Somebody here KNEW how to do it once. THAT'S why we were busy. Google changed their algorithm, and somebody HERE needs to write one that counters it.

If they don't know how, they can certainly show their prowess by giving us cool skins...

excon

Hello again, WG:

Who do you mean when you say "the site"? You and me, or the devs???
Dear excon:

Sorry. I got real excited there for a minute and wasn't clear. I meant the devs. Certainly they know all about algorithms, especially Google's. Isn't there a way to circumvent it by changing how the site looks? (rhetorical question maybe)

WG

The SEO for the site is working well. You can copy/paste bits of a post and it'll turn up the AMHD link pretty high up - the site is getting indexed. People are choosing not to stay once they get here.

The SEO for the site is working well. You can copy/paste bits of a post and it'll turn up the AMHD link pretty high up - the site is getting indexed. People are choosing not to stay once they get here.
Even though a random keyword search doesn't work well in finding this site, a specific content search does.

When I Google keywords out of a user's searching-for-a-book post, I usually get that particular question at the top of my hit list. When I search for "cat peeing on couch," I don't; AMHD doesn't show up at all. Why do eHow and cat vet sites show up first?

How can we get people to stick around and/or return? Aren't we warm and fuzzy enough? If we were, would that solve the problem?

Hello again, NK and WG:

I'm a businessman - not a computer guy. So, I couldn't tell the difference between an algorithm or an SEO. I don't know particularly WHAT the site needs. I just recognize that it needs something... And, WHATEVER it needs, needs to be addressed by the owners/devs.

It's MY view, as a simple contributor to the site, that messing around with skins, and reassuring us that the comment feature is really good, when we ALL know it stinks, very well may BE the reason why we don't have any retention... Instead of that, they should have been writing ALGORITHMS..

I've not been shy about sharing my views with the devs.. Of course, I AIN'T a PAID computer consultant...

If MY income is decreasing, theirs must be plummeting..

excon

Aren't we warm and fuzzy enough?Hello WG:

We ain't CLOSE to warm and fuzzy. We're actually a**holes.


If we were, would that solve the problem?In a word, YES!

Have you ever been to a store where you KNEW you were welcomed? That didn't happen by accident. Have you ever been to a store where you KNEW you better not break one of their rules? THAT happens by accident. Or, put another way, if you don't manage your people, some of your peoples a**holeness will come out.

Excon

Hello again, NK and WG:

I'm a businessman - not a computer guy. So, I couldn't tell the difference between an algorithm or an SEO. I don't know particularly WHAT the site needs. I just recognize that it needs something... And, WHATEVER it needs, needs to be addressed by the owners/devs.

It's MY view, as a simple contributor to the site, that messing around with skins, and reassuring us that the comment feature is really good, when we ALL know it stinks, very well may BE the reason why we don't have any retention... Instead of that, they should have been writing ALGORITHMS..

I've not been shy about sharing my views with the devs.. Of course, I AIN'T a PAID computer consultant...

If MY income is decreasing, theirs must be plummeting..

excon


Let me clear something up. Its not "our" side that has the algorithm it's the search engine filter. What needs to happen is for this site to decide and trim where needed so we don't get classified as spam. One of the things you may notice is that when a post is made the related content shows up as an ad. It takes a person away from this site. And that is exactly what the bots and algorithm is looking at and classifying as social spam. So far the lay out doesn't look good to the search engines. Lots of tags but the content is pushed away by ads. See where this is going and how we got here.

And the dumbest thing is we have been using Google adsense here and its Google that is bending us over. How dumb is that ?

It's MY view, as a simple contributor to the site, that messing around with skins, and reassuring us that the comment feature is really good, when we ALL know it stinks, very well may BE the reason why we don't have any retention...
Well you know I agree with you there.
I don't get a paycheck from here so I really don't care if the site kicks *** or not. This one of my many pit stop diversions. I just know that I've seen too many new users express confusion.

Let me clear something up. Its not "our" side that has the algorithm its the search engine filter.

And the dumbest thing is we have been using google adsense here and its google that is bending us over. How dumb is that ?Hello again, dad:

It's not going to get clear, no matter how hard you try... But, it doesn't matter. I don't know WHAT feature/algorithm this site had WHEN we were busy. All I know is the site had what Google wanted, and we were busy... Now Google changes its algorithm, and SOMETHING needs to be done here to counter it. Whatever we did once, we can do again.

In terms of adsense, are we contributing to those who are plotting our demise?? What do we do about that?

excon

I have been and shopped at many stores, I think of McDonalds where employees have to say "do you want fries with that" or at least they used to.

Did anyone ever think those employees really cared if you took fries. Or the post a few week ago about someone having to sell extended warranties to keep their jobs.

A company can change all the rules they want, they can make employees do things a certain way, but if the decission or choice they made * or changes* were wrong, at some point the store suffers.

Good managers will at some point admit mistakes and either change things back or attempt to change things for a better choice.

Have you ever been to a store where you KNEW you were welcomed?? That didn't happen by accident. Have you ever been to a store where you KNEW you better not break one of their rules? THAT happens by accident. Or, put another way, if you don't manage your people, some of your peoples a**holeness will come out.
That was my exact mission in Libraryland for thirty years -- to train library workers to manage our patrons so that they would leave our library smiling and WANT to come back. I would sit near the entrance at closing time, waiting for everyone to finish cleaning up their areas before we left for the night, and would listen to comments between/among patrons as they left the building. Very interesting -- and terrific fodder for future staff and volunteer training. Maybe someone needs to sit at this site's door and listen to members who use the site once and then leave, never to return.

I just know that I've seen too many new users express confusion.
And how many times have Ben and Scott (and others) asked newer members to stop using the comment feature when they answer with new information or advice or a response...

And how many times have Ben and Scott (and others) asked newer members to stop using the comment feature when they answer with new information or advice or a response....Hello again, WG:

Are you saying it's the CUSTOMERS who aren't acting right?? Or is the site just not user friendly? Either way, the result is the same.

excon

A company can change all the rules they want, they can make employees do things a certain way, but if the decission or choice they made * or changes* were wrong, at some point the store suffers.
Reminds me of a new library director we had. Our schtick at the front desk when checking out books was to talk about favorite authors, thus getting to know our patrons and their preferences. The director told us no more of that kind of interaction. We were invading a patron's privacy by asking them which authors they liked, and we had no business sharing our own favorites. We were to simply check out books in silence, and then thank them for visiting the library.

On this site, we scold them for texting and for posting in the comments field.

Are you saying it's the CUSTOMERS who aren't acting right??? Or is the site just not user friendly? Either way, the result is the same.
Dear excon:

Whether they are acting right or not, we tell them they are doing Bad Things. That's not good public relations. Maybe it's time we learn how to read texting. Or stop playing up to the tweeners with a glitzy-looking site.

WG

Whether they are acting right or not, we tell them they are doing Bad Things. That's not good public relations. Hello again, WG:

We're saying the same thing. What do you do when a step is broken in your store... You certainly REMIND your customers to BE careful... But, wouldn't it be easier just to fix the step?

The comment feature is OUR step. If that were FIXED, we STILL might not be wonderful people... But, at least we don't have to START the relationship by admonishing them...

The skins don't work either. We've been telling them that forever... I don't know WHY they're NOT listening to us. Clearly, they don't think their customers are right. I AM a customer here, too, am I not? Who ARE they listening to?

excon

Who ARE they listening to?
Look at the new skin -- how "pretty" it is with all the places to go and things to do. Fun. "Dashboard" sounds like a control thing, like in a car where all the knobs and push-buttons are for controlling the car's interior temperature, the radio, the stereo system, even now with GPS where he is going and how to get there. The new member thinks he has control, but then is told he is doing those Bad Things.

I don't remember much texting going on before Go was made the default. Are we attracting the customers we really want to attract? Who exactly is texting? The texters and tweeners aren't the ones who tend to stick around; they are one-time users.

Look at the new skin -- how "pretty" it is with all the places to go and things to do. Fun. "Dashboard" sounds like a control thing, like in a car where all the knobs and push-buttons are for controlling the car's interior temperature, the radio, the stereo system, even now with GPS where he is going and how to get there. The new member thinks he has control, but then is told he is doing those Bad Things.

I don't remember much texting going on before Go was made the default. Are we attracting the customers we really want to attract? Who exactly is texting? The texters and tweeners aren't the ones who tend to stick around; they are one-time users.

I thought the point of AskMeHelpDesk was to help people in general, not to target certain types of people to help?

Isn't a one time user good enough?

Step 1.they come here for help
Step 2.they get help
Step 3.they move on

And maybe if they thought they were treated fairly and got a good response theyd advertise the site through word of mouth.

"ive got a problem"
"try this site they were actually quite helpful"

isn't a one time user good enough?
Yes, but if he texts his questions and posts things in the wrong box and then gets yelled at, he won't come back. I do think the owners want repeat traffic as well as new traffic.

and maybe if they thought they were treated fairly and got a good response theyd advertise the site through word of mouth.
That's we are all supposed to do on GO -- advertise the site on Facebook and on Twitter and all the other social networking sites we hang out on. The plea is to advertise your profile and direct traffic (your Internet friends and contacts) to this site -- and if you sign up for Adsense, all the better because then you will earn money too. "Everyone wins" is the message.

Look at the new skin -- how "pretty" it is with all the places to go and things to do. Fun. "Dashboard" sounds like a control thing, like in a car where all the knobs and push-buttons are for controlling the car's interior temperature, the radio, the stereo system, even now with GPS where he is going and how to get there. The new member thinks he has control, but then is told he is doing those Bad Things.

I don't remember much texting going on before Go was made the default. Are we attracting the customers we really want to attract? Who exactly is texting? The texters and tweeners aren't the ones who tend to stick around; they are one-time users.

Just wait until the new article feature kicks in and starts going full swing. I really do think they are trying to change it into a social networking site rather then what it currently / is used to be.

Just wait until the new article feature kicks in and starts going full swing. I really do think they are trying to change it into a social networking site rather then what it currently / is used to be.
Ah! So we are sliding away from being a well-respected Q&A site to being just another social networking site. That makes total sense due to the look of the new skin and the site's urging members to bring all their little Internet friends over to see their profile and the questions they've asked and maybe answered. And then maybe all those friends will click on each other's Adsense ads they've all subscribed to.

So, eventually, the site won't need us experts any longer to accurately answer questions. The site will have every tom, bill, and harry answering each other's questions accurately or not -- but the accuracy doesn't matter as long as they come to the site and click on ads.

Ah! So we are sliding away from being a well-respected Q&A site to being just another social networking site. That makes total sense due to the look of the new skin and the site's urging members to bring all their little Internet friends over to see their profile and the questions they've asked and maybe answered. And then maybe all those friends will click on each other's Adsense ads they've all subscribed to.

So, eventually, the site won't need us experts any longer to accurately answer questions. The site will have every tom, bill, and harry answering each other's questions accurately or not -- but the accuracy doesn't matter as long as they come to the site and click on ads.

Lol.. it worked for Yahoo didn't it ?

lol .. it worked for yahoo didnt it ?
You're right. And that's why I'm not at Yahoo! Answers any longer. I must be a social networking snob.

So it all comes down to money and profits. Altruism and honestly caring about and for each other don't matter.

In a recent survey I was unable to distinguish between an algorithm and a tablespoon. Therefore I'll forego offering advice on corrective measures. I am however completely qualified to count up to 20 and have noted that when checking-in recently there are often only 2-6 people on-site.

I believe the points made by J_9 and expanded upon by excon are on target. If there are only a few clients remaining it doesn't pay to offend even one of them.

I ... have noted that when checking-in recently there are often only 2-6 people on-site.
I make myself invisible here, am happily retired with little to do except for crossword puzzles, reading, editing for profit, volunteering at the local cat shelter, and being on the computer until maybe to a.m. CDT. I sit here around midnight and eagerly wait for the other half of the world wake up and sign on, and begin to field their questions. There used to be many Europeans and Asians to keep me company. Now there are usually fewer than ten people showing online at that time on this site (DrBill and dwashbur -- and CurlyBen -- are often here; that's three, and maybe J_9 depending on her schedule and workload). Where have the Europeans and Asians gone?

I guess we need to start answering like they do over on Yahoo answers, Question: you had sex with 10 men and don't know who to collect child support. Answer " no problem, just sue all of them for child support they will all have to pay, my sister did it" And of course that gets voted best answer, and the real answers get reported

Dr Bill can start telling everyone they have nothing to worry about, they will pass the drug test if they just drink >>>> ( make your own answer)

I guess we need to start answering like they do over on yahoo answers
And be sure to text your answer and add "hope i helped xxx" at the end (and maybe xxx at the beginning too).

I was banned from Yahoo answers, I had the nerve to answer with any moral values

I guess we need to start answering like they do over on yahoo answers, Question: you had sex with 10 men and don't know who to collect child support. Answer " no problem, just sue all of them for child support they will all have to pay, my sister did it" And of course that gets voted best answer, and the real answers get reported

Dr Bill can start telling everyone they have nothing to worry about, they will pass the drug test if they just drink >>>> ( make your own answer)



This is the problem with a "wisdom of the masses" approach to media. The idea that the many are smarter than the few is not always right. This is especially true of Yahoo answers. "We report, you decide" is another endorsement of a majority opinion being the best opinion. Wikipedia can come in for criticism for similar reasons.

People who vote for the best answer don't always vote for the correct answer. In many cases the masses seem to demonstrate they are confused. On the other hand, the OP can be equally confused and I have seen examples on Yahoo where the answer chosen by the OP is patiently absurd. I am not saying answers voted for and chosen by OP's is always incorrect. Naturally there many examples where the wisdom of the crowd has succeeded but there are too many inconsistencies to believe this approach is of any real value when it comes to complex issues.


Tut

Hey, I thought this thread was an excellent idea. I haven't read all the comments, because it seemed to get away from the topic and into the algroawhateva stuff.

I just wanted to say, I know I have been too quick to judge, and have come down hard on people. Usually in the dog forum, I try to stay away from the touchy feely stuff because I'm not a touchy feely kind of gal. But I will remember, and have been trying my best to be my nicest. It's hard sometimes, I can't speak for everyone, but I have a bad habit of letting my emotions get the best of me especially when it comes to animals or kids. Anyway... point taken, I'm on my best :)

I agree with the OP, for sure.

I have tried to give the benefit of the doubt and to be kind even when I start sensing that I'm being BSed.

I'm afraid that as I've become more accustomed to the community and comfortable as a member, I might have gotten a little less warm and fuzzy.

I think we should definitely work on that. How disheartening to come to a place that says it will help you, and be scolded based on your use of the English language or the comments feature.

WE can't do anything about the skin or format of the site (except let our observations on its shortcomings be known), but we CAN practice good customer service.

I stopped flying Frontier airlines when a customer service representative berated me for needing to change my flight time the day of the flight (I had to go into surgery! Evil me!). Despite how asinine a person's question or attitude is, we have a choice to kill it with kindness, stick to ANSWERING the questions, not attacking people.

That's why the RIP feature is a good friend of ours. Let our moderators keep us in line.