About 3 weeks ago I slipped and fell in the bathtub causing a small hole no bigger than a dime. It was all rusted in the inside and shouldn't have happened so easily. I called maintenance in to fix it. First off, not once did they tell me I was going to have to pay for it or how much it would cost, nor did I sign anything saying that I had to pay for it. A week after it was fixed I get a bill in the mail saying I owe them $215. (Which I called around 10 different plumbers in Nevada and they all said that it shouldn't have been more than $80.) If I would have known that I would have MUCH rather paid for a new bathtub if it was going to cost that much. I don't feel like I should have to pay more than $80. They said on the bottom of the bill that if I didn't pay the $215 that when I went to pay rent they would deduct the $215 from my rent money, making me short on my rent. So if I go to pay my rent, can they refuse to take my rent payment because I refused to pay the maintenance bill?

So if I go to pay my rent, can they refuse to take my rent payment because I refused to pay the maintenance bill?Hello S:

No.

That doesn't mean they don't have a case against you. It just means they can't arbitrarily decide the case themselves and take your money. Obviously, they think differently. If they wish to pursue this purported debt, the place to do it is a court of law.

I doubt they'll listen to you either, but give them the opportunity.. When you pay your rent, send it by certified mail. Include a letter that simply states the above legal notion. Inform them, that IF they result to "self help", your defense against an eviction will be upheld. And, it WILL be.

excon

You owe it... so pay it. Save yourself the problems. They don't have to shop for the lowest cost option.

Are you in a lease? Are you month to month. And yes... they can refuse to accept a partial payment... and that's a prelude to an eviction process for a breach of lease. Which of course will have to past muster with a court.

There may be differences of opinion... but its only $250. The aggravation you will have to deal with isn't worth that small amount.

What state and city is this... laws vary greatly and it helps to know where you are when it comes to advice that can vary so much depending on location.

What state and city is this.....laws vary greatly and it helps to know where you areHello smoothy:

The question isn't whether she owes it. It's whether the landlord can result to "self help". It matters not where she lives in that respect.. Self help isn't allowed ANYWHERE.

excon

... And yes...they can refuse to accept a partial payment. ...

I don't see, in OP's question, that the LL is threatening to do that. What OP says is that the LL "said on the bottom of the bill that if I didn't pay the $215 that when I went to pay rent they would deduct the $215 from my rent money ...". I don't see that the landlord has said anything about refusing payment.

Hello smoothy:

The question isn't whether she owes it. It's whether the landlord can result to "self help". It matters not where she lives in that respect.. Self help isn't allowed ANYWHERE.

excon

Landlords can in fact do their own repairs etc. In Virginia for certain. A good friend of mine owns three commercial properties and he did most of the work himself... and another friend that owns 8 townhouses... he does all the repairs etc himself. Meaning its rare they call a third party in.

Maintenance and damages aren't the same when it comes to who pays what. Dishwasher dies.. landlord pays.. someone stomps on the door to it and breaks it off, tenant pays.

I don't doubt there are places that don't allow that in the country. But we don't really know where she's at.

I don't see, in OP's question, that the LL is threatening to do that. What OP says is that the LL "said on the bottom of the bill that if I didn't pay the $215 that when I went to pay rent they would deduct the $215 from my rent money ...". I don't see that the landlord has said anything about refusing payment.
Perhaps its how its worded. They need to clarify that. They asked if the landlord can refuse to accept rent that is less then the total owed that month. Once they do then precedent is established... however the issue with the damage repair is a sticking point.

They also aren't going to get a bathtub installed for anything near that price. There is a lot of labor involved in that job. And labor is the lions share of the cost.

If that's a repair to chipped porcelain, that's really not that excessive for someone good.

I don't doubt there are places that don't allow that in the country. But we don't really know where she's at.Hello again, smoothy:

As I said earlier, the issue here is NOT whether she owes it. In fact, I suspect she does. But, they can't take her money, absent a paragraph in the lease saying that the landlord shall be the final arbiter of who is responsible for damage, and if it's determined to be the tenant, that they can arbitrarily allocate the FIRST part of her rent payment to THAT debt.

I'm assuming they DON'T have a clause like that in the lease.. Even if they did, it would be an ILLEGAL clause. The OP has a right to have her dispute heard in a court of law. She can't be made to sign away those rights, and any agreement that calls for her to do so, will not be upheld.

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

As I said earlier, the issue here is NOT whether she owes it. In fact, I suspect she does. But, they can't do that, absent a paragraph in the lease saying that the landlord shall be the final arbiter of who is responsible for damage, and if it's determined to be the tenant, that they can arbitrarily allocate the FIRST part of her rent payment to THAT debt.

I'm assuming they DON'T have a clause like that in the lease.. Even if they did, it would be an ILLEGAL clause. The OP has a right to have her dispute heard in a court of law. She can't be made to sign away those rights, and any agreement that calls for her to do so, will not be upheld.

excon

Sure she can fight it... the landlord can also tell her that her lease is not being extended at its expiration and that she will have to move.

Moving will cost her how much? I know if I had a tenant that gave me grief... they would be given a 30 day notice a month before the end of their lease that it won't be renewed and they would have to vacate at that time. If she's month to month... that can be earlier than she is ready for.

Of course all of the local laws would have to be observed in the process. Most locations the landlords aren't REQUIRED to extend the leases of existing tenants if they don't want to leave, its up to the landlord if they want them to stay, and most will. Assuming she isn't in one of those places... does she really want to go there if she is otherwise happy with them?

And we are jumping to conclusions as to what is and isn't in her lease. There is a lot of info that hasn't yet been provided or has been sketchy or limited.

Also we did not address any terms in a lease.

In most of mine I have a clause where if any money is owed for late fees or damages, any money collected goes first to those charges before being applied to rent.

So in those cases the "rent" money would merely be used first for the charges and then you would get a notice for unpaid rents.

If they over charged you, you would get two written statements from lcensed plumbers as to the cost of the repair and provide that to the landlord.

I agree that LL can refuse partial payment (I've done it).
I agree that LL cannot deduct repairs from rent.

Of course I wouldn't have called maintenance to fix something I broke. I'd buy a tiny nail polish size jar of porcelain enamel touch up at any appliance store, which is probably what they did. Rust? Does sound like enamel on steel cheapo (does it sound hollow if you tap it?) rather than porcelain on cast iron. So maybe a little rust grinding was done too, all told less than an hour's work. Not worth $215, but you walked into it. I'm wondering what heavy or sharp object you may have had with you in the tub?

Anyway, you could file in Small Claims after paying the bill and your rent, separately. But it wouldn't be worth it.

I would try a negotiation. Mention the 80, start at 115, settle on maybe 140.

Sure she can fight it....the landlord can also tell her that her lease is not being extended at its expiration and that she will have to move.Hello again, smoothy:

I don't necessarily disagree with you. But, you're talking about a strategy, and I'm talking about the law. It may NOT be in her best interest to fight the landlord... That's a strategy... But, she asked about the LAW.

excon

Okay so I'm doing this question over to better explain things. I slipped in my bath tub and made a TINY little hole, it was literally no bigger than a dime. I could have went to walmart and patched it up myself for 5 bucks, but instead I called the landlord and she sent maintenance over. The first day a guy came and patched up the small hole. Then the next day three Mexican guys who barley spoke English came to paint over the patch. I was wondering why it took three men to fix something so small. They sealed off the hallway with this plastic stuff so I had no idea what they were doing. They took hours for just a tiny little hole. So after they were done and they left I went to go see how it looked and the bathroom was TRASHED. Then I saw that they spray painted the WHOLE entire bathtub! First off, they spray painted it and used the wrong kind of paint, Its clumpy and already starting to crack in some places. And now every time me or partner takes a bath we break out in hives. So after they had painted the bathtub about a week later I got a bill in the mail saying I owed $215 and if that I didn't pay it they would use my rent money towards the bathtub repairs... I understand that I should pay them something but that is way too much! Painting the whole bathtub was unnecessary and it was not what I asked them to do. I even called various plumbers and asked for a quote, all of them said anywhere between 80 to 100 dollars. I have to pay rent in two days and I'm afraid that they won't accept my rent if I don't pay for the bathtub repairs, can they do that?

First, when posting a follow-up question or info, please use the Answer options at the bottom of the page rather than the Comments. Nor should you start a new thread, so I've merged your threads.

The consensus here is the landlord can charge for repairs. They can't refuse your payment, but I believe they can apply a portion of your rent payment towards the repairs. So what happens here is they deem your rent late and try to evict you. So you go to court and explain why your rent is behind. They have to justify the repair bill. If they do you pay it. Or they may deny or reduce it.

Have you taken pictures of the original hole and the sloppy repair?

Finally what does it matter what the nationality of the repair team that was sent?

1. No camera
2. Just stating that they didn't speak English or know what they were doing. Could have been illegal.

I agree that LL can refuse partial payment (I've done it).
I agree that LL cannot deduct repairs from rent.

Of course I wouldn't have called maintenance to fix something I broke. I'd buy a tiny nail polish size jar of porcelain enamel touch up at any appliance store, which is probably what they did. Rust? Does sound like enamel on steel cheapo (does it sound hollow if you tap it?) rather than porcelain on cast iron. So maybe a little rust grinding was done too, all told less than an hour's work. Not worth $215, but you walked into it. I'm wondering what heavy or sharp object you may have had with you in the tub?

Anyway, you could file in Small Claims after paying the bill and your rent, separately. But it wouldn't be worth it.

I would try a negotiation. Mention the 80, start at 115, settle on maybe 140.

The bathtub is actually extremely rusted on the inside. And when I fell I had a razor in my had that easily made the hole. It was like nothing, it was like I had stabbed a hole in paper.

1. No camera
2. Just stating that they didn't speak English or know what they were doing. Could have been illegal.

1. You can get a single use camera for about $5.
2. Lack of speaking English doesn't indeicate3 lack of skill. Nor does being Hispanic indicate being illegal. You seem to be somewhat of a bigot and if you bring that attitude into court (where this may end up) it will work against you.


The bathtub is actually extremely rusted on the inside. And when I fell I had a razor in my had that easily made the hole. It was like nothing, it was like I had stabbed a hole in paper.

This was something you weren't clear on. This hole was in the bathtub itself? I was assuming it was in a wall above the tub itself. To be able to put ANY sort of hole in a bathtub would indicate a major issue with the tub and would indicate replacement not repair.

1. You can get a single use camera for about $5.
2. Lack of speaking English doesn't indeicate3 lack of skill. Nor does being Hispanic indicate being illegal. You seem to be somewhat of a bigot and if you bring that attitude into court (where this may end up) it will work against you.



This was something you weren't clear on. This hole was in the bathtub itself? I was assuming it was in a wall above the tub itself. To be able to put ANY sort of hole in a bathtub would indicate a major issue with the tub and would indicate replacement not repair.

Yeah it was in the side of the tub, not on the wall. Yes you could tell the bathtub is rusted and old. But they just spray painted over it. If they SHOULD have repaired it what do I do? I mean if they would have to replace the whole tub would I have to pay for that too? I just don't know what to do because the landlord basically thinks that we are young and don't know what we are doing and can basically say anything and we will believe them.

Yeah it was in the side of the tub, not on the wall. Yes you could tell the bathtub is rusted and old. But they just spray painted over it. If they SHOULD have repaired it what do I do? I mean if they would have to replace the whole tub would I have to pay for that too? I just don't know what to do because the landlord basically thinks that we are young and don't know what we are doing and can basically say anything and we will believe them.

And I wouldn't say that in court. And yes obviously in this case it did mean they were unprofessional because they didn't do a good job at all, and weren't professionals. And what would a camera do NOW that its fixed? I would just be taking a picture of a normal bathtub not the hole. I had to have it fixed right away or I couldn't use my shower.

... I mean if they would have to replace the whole tub would I have to pay for that too? ...

No. And they should replace the tub. It appears to be rusted out. And I doubt that is your fault.

If the LL applies your rent to a damage claim, and seeks to evict you or otherwise takes you to court for this, I would make sure there are plenty of pictures. My cell phone takes pictures and is very handy in this regard: I am never without a camera.


... And what would a camera do NOW that its fixed? I would just be taking a picture of a normal bathtub not the hole. ...

A normal, painted, bathtub?

I think a close-up picture of where the hole was "fixed" would be helpful.

Hello again, S:

You have TWO legal issues at work here. It would serve you NOT to confuse them. The first issue is whether you should pay for the repair. The second is whether the landlord can unilaterally and arbitrarily take money for the repairs OUT of your rent check.

The first issue can't be decided here. But, the second one can. The REASON the second one can is demonstrated by the discussion we've been having over the FIRST issue. You think THEY should have paid for the repairs for thus and so reasons... We think YOU should have paid for the repairs for thus and so reasons...

But, what that back and forth demonstrates, is that there IS, in fact, a QUESTION about whether you were legally responsible for the debt... That is exactly WHY the issue needs to be addressed by a court of law... That is exactly WHY the landlord can't arbitrarily make that decision himself. That is exactly WHY we have courts in the first place.

So, whether the tub was rusted or not, or whether you were negligent in your shower taking, or not, or whether the repairs were good, and/or whether you could have done it cheaper, are not relevant to the second question...

I rented a non smoking room in a hotel. Apparently, somebody was smoking in my wing, and when the staff investigated, they determined the smoke was coming from MY room. The hotel has a "policy" of charging people who violate that policy $250..

This is the SAME situation... Since I disputed their claim, whether I violated their policy, was a question for a court of law. Instead, they arbitrarily charged my credit card an extra $250. Of course, they couldn't do that - just like your landlord can't arbitrarily take your money.

excon

No. And they should replace the tub. It appears to be rusted out. And I doubt that is your fault.

If the LL applies your rent to a damage claim, and seeks to evict you or otherwise takes you to court for this, I would make sure there are plenty of pictures. My cell phone takes pictures and is very handy in this regard: I am never without a camera.



A normal, painted, bathtub?

I think a close-up picture of where the hole was "fixed" would be helpful.

You can't tell that the hole was even there because it was painted over. So yes it would look like there is nothing there. They painted the WHOLE bathtub the same color so you couldn't tell. Okay. Well thank you. (:

First off, they spray painted it and used the wrong kind of paint, Its clumpy and already starting to crack in some places....

because they didn't do a good job at all, and weren't professionals. And what would a camera do NOW that its fixed? I would just be taking a picture of a normal bathtub not the hole. I had to have it fixed right away or I couldn't use my shower.

If they didn't do a good job, pictures would show that.

If they didn't do a good job, pictures would show that.

Yeah true. But that still doesn't help my question of CAN they refuse to take my FULL rent payment, because my rent statement says I owe just my rent not the $215 for the tub repair. So if I pay my $610 rent can they refuse to take that? But anyway I am going to pay it in the morning tomorrow so I will let everyone know the outcome.

Yeah true. But that still doesn't help my question of CAN they refuse to take my FULL rent payment, because my rent statement says I owe just my rent not the $215 for the tub repair. So if I pay my $610 rent can they refuse to take that? But anyways I am going to pay it in the morning tomorrow so I will let everyone know the outcome.

Yes but that question was answered already. Legally they can't. If they do and then try to evict you for non payment you have a case in court.

But frankly, I'm beginning to wonder about this. As I pointed out, if the repair was such a botch job you would have pictures to prove it. I find it hard to believe you could not at least borrow a camera to get proof of the bad work. And if the work was as bad as you described, there would still be visible evidence. I also find it hard to believe someone could punch a hole through a bath tub wall. If it was an old cast iron tub that was rusted out, repairing would be difficult and expensive. Plus I think there would be additional signs of damage. If it was a newer fiberglass tub, it wouldn't rust out. So, yes I think you should pay the repair bill and chalk this up to experience.

I know this is beating a dead horse but there are steel tubs with enamel paint, so cheesy that few people bother to install them anymore (I did once). They chip and rust as easily as vintage kitchen enamel on steel, the kind that was usually white on the inside, dark color on the outside, with a black rim. Repainting them means sanding down the rust and the smooth paint, and it rarely works.

As for cameras: I don't own a cell phone and hadn't owned a camera until recently. I can believe all of this story.

Yes but that question was answered already. Legally they can't. If they do and then try to evict you for non payment you have a case in court.

But frankly, I'm beginning to wonder about this. As I pointed out, if the repair was such a botch job you would have pictures to prove it. I find it hard to believe you could not at least borrow a camera to get proof of the bad work. And if the work was as bad as you described, there would still be visible evidence. I also find it hard to beleive someone could punch a hole through a bath tub wall. If it was an old cast iron tub that was rusted out, repairing would be difficult and expensive. Plus I think there would be additional signs of damage. If it was a newer fiberglass tub, it wouldn't rust out. So, yes I think you should pay the repair bill and chalk this up to experience.


Can you just STOP posting on here? You are being rude and stupid.

I know this is beating a dead horse but there are steel tubs with enamel paint, so cheesy that few people bother to install them anymore (I did once). They chip and rust as easily as vintage kitchen enamel on steel, the kind that was usually white on the inside, dark color on the outside, with a black rim. Repainting them means sanding down the rust and the smooth paint, and it rarely works.

As for cameras: I don't own a cell phone and hadn't owned a camera til recently. I can believe all of this story.

THANKKKK YOU :DD You are nice. Haha.

Can you just STOP posting on here? You are being rude and stupid.

Scott is one of the site Moderators... I mistakenly typed administrators.

Getting nasty isn't going to win favors or score points. And its not a battle you could win if you chose to make it one.

I didn't see anything he wrote as not being valid points to make. I am familiar with the process and have actually had a repair to a damaged tub done (I had it done. Watched the whole thing but I didn't do it myself). A decade later its just starting to show wear at the point the repair was made. (Damage was caused by a dropped hammer)

Can you just STOP posting on here? You are being rude and stupid.

First, may I call your attention to the guidelines for using the comments feature found here:

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/feedback/using-comments-feature-24951.html

Apparently your negative comment was already removed since it violated the guidelines.

When you post on a site like this you open yourself up to any responses as long as they do not violate the site rules. And you do NOT dictate who can or cannot respond to your posts or how they respond as long as there is not violation of the rules.

I was neither rude nor stupid. I expressed my opinion based on the facts as you presented them. You may disagree with that opinion and ignore my advice, but being insulting and abusive is not an option.

(And I'm not too thrilled by being thanked at the expense of someone else. Try to keep emotions in check and pick out what you want from advice.)

These are some interesting topics though.
- Right to refuse a partial rent payment
- Right to deduct repairs from rent and then claim rent is only partially paid

The first one probably won't show up in state tenant law statutes. It seems to be basic contract law that you can refuse? I remember back when you wrote 'accepted with prejudice' on the check, but I'm not sure that ever held up in court.
The second I think also is basic contracts. Similar to the post here recently by the person who stopped paying rent because he was renting from a vendor who owed him money - you can't mix two distinct debts.