I'm really struggling with my beliefs. I became close friends with a musician, and many of his songs were about the christian faith. I decded to go to church and check it out, and the more I think about it, the more confused I get. My friend does what I consider to be normal things... drinking, partying, etc. however, when I read the bible, these types of behavor are not accepetable. I'm so confused because I'm a country musican myself, and lot of country music is based on faith in god and jesus, yet the life style doeset align with what jesus taught. I feel like I can't be a normal guy, do the best I can, have a good time, and still believe in the miracles and teachings of the bible,because it would be so ironic. Can someone please help me?

Having expectations of a so called normal life, as you indicated "drinking, partying, etc." it's no wonder that your spiritual side is suffering. The Bible clearly teaches that people who intend to follow God cannot split their loyalty between God and the world. Either one side or the other will come up short. We cannot straddle the fence. The Bible teaches that "Friendship with the world is enmity with God." "A man cannot serve two masters." He will end up hating one and loving the other.

As far as struggling with spiritual issues, welcome to the club. Jesus said that in the world we will have tribulation. No doubt about that.

That's exactly right. What it really comes down to is this... just because your friends and others believe one way and act another, does not justify their actions. BELIEF in Jesus Christ and His works is not what is going to save someone. The bible tells us that even the demons BLIEVE, and tremble. It's what you DO with that belief that counts. You can go on a straight road to hell if you're just following what the world is doing. If you want to see a truly changed heart and a relationship with God that is real, live according to what the bible says and not what your friend does. Does that make any sense?

BELIEF in Jesus Christ and His works is not what is going to save someone. The bible tells us that even the demons BLIEVE, and tremble. It's what you DO with that belief that counts.
So, the verses Ephesians 2:8,9 are incorrect?

Not one bit are they wrong. There is a difference between a saving grace through faith and a simple belief that God exists. It's not that belief of His existence that saves us, it's the faith in Jesus Christ as our savior that does. Many people believe in God and utterly reject Him. Many people believe in God and still choose to live a sinful lifestyle. There IS a difference.

Not one bit are they wrong. Their is a difference between a saving grace through faith and a simple belief that God exists. It's not that belief of His existence that saves us, it's the faith in Jesus Christ
You posted that works save us... "It's what you DO with that belief that counts."

hauntinghelper:"It's what you DO with that belief that counts."

I concur with Wondergirl's observation that your sentence, quoted above, with the (your) emphasis on "what you DO"... it reads as if our works make a difference in our salvation. And your sentence quoted below... it seems to me, is simply evading this very critical point. I think I can safely say that neither of us understood that faith in Christ means simply belief in His existence.


"It's not that belief of His existence that saves us, it's the faith in Jesus Christ as our savior that does."

In any case I have made attempts to share my view point on this very issue a number of times before. And to me it's clear that believing (and our faith) ARE WORKS! The Bible itself defines them as such. 1 Thessalonians 1:3, and 2 Thessalonians 1:11. And Ephesians 2:9... "Lest any man should boast" adds fuel to the issue that absolutely no works of ours (including our believing) can assist in our salvation.

I concur with Wondergirl's observation that your sentence
Why is "observation" in italics? It looks scary.

An observation is different from a conclusion. It means I am validating your observation, but I don't know what the conclusions of this discussion will be.

I didn't mean actual "works" by stressing the word "do". I did that to point out simple recognition of God's existence isn't what saves us. We do have to make that step of confession to God. And to put it quite bluntly, there are something's we should NOT be doing if we are believers in Christ. The OP is correct, loose and wild living stand in contrast to what God would have us do. So, there is a change in our lifestyle that needs to take place... not that that change is what saves us by any means.

One of the issue is that people are are professional musicians write and sell and sing music that will make them money, Heck some of Elvis's best music was religious, as was people like Johnny Cash.

Singing christian music does not make you a christian, it only makes you a singer.

You will have real Christians that sing, and you will have singers that sing christians songs, they are not the same thing always.

Also depending on your teaching or denomination, having one or two drinks is not wrong, and also what do you call party?

I know the bible tells me Jesus was at a Wedding party and turned water into wine.

The difference is the level of moral or immoral behaviors

One of the issue is that people are are professional musicians write and sell and sing music that will make them money, Heck some of Elvis's best music was religious, as was people like Johnny Cash.

singing christian music does not make you a christian, it only makes you a singer.

You will have real Christians that sing, and you will have singers that sing christians songs, they are not the same thing always.

Also depending on your teaching or denomination, having one or two drinks is not wrong, and also what do you call party ??

I know the bible tells me Jesus was at a Wedding party and turned water into wine.

The difference is the level of moral or immoral behaviors

Agreed. Paul said "All things are lawful for me, but not all things are expedient...all things in moderation." There's nothing wrong with drinking in moderation. To the OP, I would say, be careful to distinguish between things the Bible actually condemns and things that certain cultures have read into the Bible for their own purposes. Example: (putting on my flameproof suit first)

Smoking. Is it a sin? No. The Bible says nothing whatsoever about it. Some people quote the whole "your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit" but they take it out of context. That verse is talking about taking your body and joining it to a prostitute, i.e. taking God's temple and uniting it with a temple that is definitely not dedicated to God. It has nothing to do with the idea of doing harm to one's body. In fact, Paul was a prime example of ways to do harm to one's body; look at his litany of messes he let himself get into in 2 Corinthians. And most of them were easily avoidable. So it should be clear that he didn't have doing harm to one's body in mind when he wrote that statement. So, the Bible doesn't address smoking, and it doesn't say doing harm to your body is a sin. Is it a good idea? No. It's, well, dumb. But it's not a sin as the Bible defines sin. Claiming it is comes from certain cultural attitudes, not from the Bible.

That's just a single example. You don't know your friend's heart. You don't know anybody's heart but your own. Be careful about judging. If your friend says he's a believer, you have no good reason not to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Our purpose in life is to do God's will and live by his standards, right? A big part of that is to love our neighbour as ourself. (Mark 12:31) We all know now what kind of damage smoking does to our body, and what effect it can have on those around us. Are we really showing loving concern for our neighbour by exposing them to harmful substances when we light up?
Of course the bible doesn't list every unclean, filthy habit known to man today, but it does mention principles and standards that can help us understand what God must think of such practices. Take for example 2 Corinthians 7:1 "Therefore, since we have these promises, beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God’s fear." Every defilement. We know that smoking can be very addictive, as can overdrinking and overeating, but obviously our creator wants us to be healthy and free of filthy habits that damage us physically and spiritually.
So does your buddy "walk it like he talks it" and is he really acting in accordance to God's principles? After all, the bar has been set pretty high by today's standards, yet it's not unreachable. (1 Corinthians 10:13) ;)

Hello CGrassa,

Ilove country music, yet I do not listen to all country music. Why? Because morality and imorality can be in what word -we sing as well in the conduct and behavior we display. God has given us a huge variety of tasty, colorful, and nutritious foods and drinks, but he wants us to use these things in moderation. Gluttony and drunkenness are condemned in the Bible. (Proverbs 23:20-21) 20 Do not come to be among heavy drinkers of wine, among those who are gluttonous eaters of flesh. 21 For a drunkard and a glutton will come to poverty, and drowsiness will clothe one with mere rags."

The bible states:"
(1 Corinthians 10:31) 31 Therefore, whether YOU are eating or drinking or doing anything else, do all things for God's glory."

We need to be selective in our choices of entertainment and songs and music we listen to. We can enjoy beneficial relaxation, but in moderation and with careful attention to the word and actions they
Display. Jesus loves what was good and moral yet he went to a wedding party, and maintained his righteous standing. Jesus did so in moderation. He produced wine at this party, yet he did not get drunk, dance imorrally, curse r take drugs. But he had funn within moral laws given to him to follow by his father.

(Proverbs 11:19) 19 The one firmly standing for righteousness is in line for life, but the one chasing after what is bad is in line for his own death.

Peace,

Hope12

(Galatians 5:19-21) 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, and they are fornication, uncleanness, loose conduct, 20 idolatry, practice of spiritism, enmities, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, contentions, divisions, sects, 21 envies, drunken bouts, revelries, and things like these. As to these things I am forewarning YOU, the same way as I did forewarn YOU, that those who practice such things will not inherit God's kingdom.

Having fun at parties, singing and dancing and even eating and drinking, are all gifts given to us by God. The prblem is when some abuse those free gifts. We thouogh need to remember to use them in moderation and within God's Laws, found in His word the Bible.

The difference is the level of moral or immoral behaviors

Correct.

God didn't write the bible man did And if there is a God then I believe that if you're a good person and your actions are of no harm to anyone then God will allow you in heaven as even he would understand the doubt in us when there are so many religions with my other gods that we are bomb barded with, and as he has never show anyone any no actual proof he exists then he wouldn't be a very good god to expect such loyalty from intelligent humans evolved in knowledge of the universe and how we all came to be... oooo controversy

I believe that if you're a good person and your actions are of no harm to anyone then God will allow you in heaven as even he would understand the doubt in us

Not exactly true...


and as he has never show anyone any no actual proof he exists

Uhh yes he has?


then he wouldn't be a very good god to expect such loyalty from intelligent humans evolved in knowledge of the universe and how we all came to be... oooo controversy

God didn't create machines.

What is in your heart? How do you feel about those who are "different" than you? Do you treat everyone fairly and try not to judge? At the end of the day the most important thing for you to remember is the term "To thine own self be true"! Doing the right thing is not a Christian thing nor does any other religion or faith own that distinction. The main thing is to honor your own personal convictions. Most of us have convictions that line up along the same lines. Yet some are personal and different and that is for us to figure out and honor. Makes us happier people.

I am at a greater peace in life knowing that I can be myself and not place any undo pressure on myself to be a certain way. When I was a Christian the church put more undo pressure on me to avoid "sin" than I could ever accomplish. For me sin is not a universal one size fits all thing. Life overall for all of us is about love and living with compassion and understanding. If drinking a few alcoholic drinks in a bar causes you to lose site of this than it is wrong. If drinking leads to things that cause harm to others than that is no doubt wrong. Same can be said about other vices we may have. In the end you are your own best friend and you must take care of yourself for those that love you as well as your own spiritual well being. Decide for you what causes you to stumble or make poor choices.

I am not saying a person should party like it's 1999 everyday but don't be too concerned with a dirty sense of humor or drinking a moderate amount of alcohol.

Also I don't have to use God and Jesus to make you where you mostly avoid premarital sex with women because with VD's and the such you have all you need to avoid that kind of thing. In the end it is not God or any person that should have to tell you how dangerous it is. You also know condoms are not fail proof.

However if you are with a woman you like do not let the church discourage you from "spending time with her". It all comes back to who you are and what is in your heart. Are your motives simply selfish and about you? Only you know that. Your journey is your own at the end of the day though. It is just that we all have similar understanding in our collective consciences.

To sum all this up. Your life is your life and the journey you take to heaven does not have to be the same as others. We all have it in us to know right from wrong. I don't read my bible and I don't go to church every Wednesday and Sunday but I have no fear of hell. I am a regular guy who obeys the laws of the land and my own personal convictions. I treat ALL people fairly and do not judge. I am on disability and do not have the means to help others as much as I would like but I feel no worries about my soul for such.

"Do unto others as you would have done unto you" "To thine own self be true" "Judge not lest ye be judged" unless you are appointed by the law system to be a judge in court or you are a jury member. Don't take yourself too seriously. I love country music but in reality it is far from Christian in it's overall message. Kind of right wing hypocritical. Not so much the country artist but those that claim the music as their genre.

Not one bit are they wrong. Their is a difference between a saving grace through faith and a simple belief that God exists. It's not that belief of His existence that saves us, it's the faith in Jesus Christ as our savior that does. Many people believe in God and utterly reject Him. Many people believe in God and still choose to live a sinful lifestyle. There IS a difference.

Yes, you are unfortunately right! And right know we have a sad example of people believing in God and choosing to live a sinful lifestyle. I am, of course, referring to the Northern Irish, who, as you praobably have read, have recently started new riots in Belfast, and other northern Ireland towns, which have caused a great amount of havoc and wounded, and perhaps casualties. And the sad thing is that these fights and so much hatred is just shared by Catholics and Protestants.

Both believe in Jesus. Both should know the 11th Comandment but both chose to ignore it for the last 60 years.

Gromitt82:mad::mad:

Few of us live in full accord with our faith - we all sin and all fall short. Many among us don't actually know what our faith teaches - it requires study that many people have never undertaken.

Further, for one person a simple belief in God, praying and trying to do right by others is satisfying expression of their faith. For others, full immersion in the Bible and their structured religion and following every aspect of teaching is imperative to them as the full expression of their faith.

For many of us it's a journey - that is my case personally. I am Catholic but not in full accord and compliance with my church, but working more and more toward it. I have some unresolved differences with the teaching of my faith which I yet struggle with as I want to be in full accord with the Church, but truly believe it to be wrong in certain areas.

The thing is though that your faith is not defined by what those around you do. And I don't believe that you can't be part of the world and also in step with Jesus - it's kind of silly as the World is God's work and creation.

I don't believe that you can't be part of the world and also in step with Jesus - it's kind of silly as the World is God's work and creation.

The problem arises when we love the world too much. Scripture tells us God loves the world he created, but it also tells us it is finite and ultimately he will destroy it because of evil. So you have to make the decision; do you do what the world wants or do you do what Jesus wants? The world says there are many paths to salvation, Jesus says there is only one and the world doesn't like that message. What I know is this when you are sold out to Jesus the world starts to fade and you are less concerned about it. I was once a person who said I had nothing in common with Christians, today I have nothing in common with the values of the world

Few of us live in full accord with our faith - we all sin and all fall short. Many among us don't actually know what our faith teaches - it requires study that many people have never undertaken.

Further, for one person a simple belief in God, praying and trying to do right by others is satisfying expression of their faith. For others, full immersion in the Bible and their structured religion and following every aspect of teaching is imperative to them as the full expression of their faith.

For many of us it's a journey - that is my case personally. I am Catholic but not in full accord and compliance with my church, but working more and more toward it. I have some unresolved differences with the teaching of my faith which I yet struggle with as I want to be in full accord with the Church, but truly believe it to be wrong in certain areas.

The thing is though that your faith is not defined by what those around you do. And I don't believe that you can't be part of the world and also in step with Jesus - it's kind of silly as the World is God's work and creation.


As you rightly say it is kind of silly that it is almost impossible to be a part of the world while being in step with Jesus for, after all, our World is nothing else than God's creation...

However, it is nonetheless true, that God gave all of us freedom to conduct our lives as we please and knowing that we should most likely misuse this fredom he also gave us His Son to redeem us through his death in the Cross.

I'm a Catholic too, and I have as many problems to tackle with as you may have, and in most cases they are related to points I do not agree with the rulers of my Church.

However, I normally conclude that if I'm right and they are wrong they will have eventually to account for their mistakes when facing the "Big Boss". And if it is the other way round, and I'm wrong, which is most probable, then it will be my turn to render my "balance sheet" hoping for the best...

My journey is nearing its end and I gather that soon enough all my doubts will be clarified to my entire and total satisfaction. Meanwhile, I try to do as little harm as I can to others and to myself..
Gromitt82

As you rightly say it is kind of silly that it is almost impossible to be a part of the world while being in step with Jesus for, after all, our World is nothing else than God's creation...

There is the false logic the lie rapped up in the truth, this planet is God's creation, this "world" is man's creation. There is very little in it that exaults God. Man's freedom has been a excuse for evil.

There is a great deal of evil in the world and a great deal of good. We choose what to include in our lives to large extent, though some evil imposes upon us. Jesus encountered evil as well, yet did not hide himself away. He and the apostles went into the world.

If your definition of "the world" comprises the worst of humanity, I can see the point of avoiding it.

The world I live in though is naturally spectacular, filled with loving friends and family and opportunities to be of service and live well. There is plenty out there such as pornography, sleeping around, murder, and the like, but I choose not to be part of that.

There is the false logic the lie rapped up in the truth, this planet is God's creation, this "world" is man's creation. There is very little in it that exaults God. Man's freedom has been a excuse for evil.

I do not think that GOD needs any kind of exaltation from us. Pretending He does is just another clear instance of our own arrogance and pride. We walk around ignoring the ants we may step upon inadvertently but in any case we could care less as to their behavior.

GOD probably cares for us as in His infinite love for His Creation He cares for the rest of the living creatures in our world. But that does not mean God expects to be exalted by us, who are zillions of time smaller than ants in front of Him. God has told us what we are to do if we want to enjoy one day His eternal Kingdom and, for the rest, it is up to us to follow His advice or not.
Gromitt82

There is a great deal of evil in the world and a great deal of good. We choose what to include in our lives to large extent, though some evil imposes upon us. Jesus encountered evil as well, yet did not hide himself away. He and the apostles went into the world.

If your definition of "the world" is comprised of the worst of humanity, I can see the point of avoiding it.

The world I live in though is naturally spectacular, filled with loving friends and family and opportunities to be of service and live well. There is plenty out there such as pornography, sleeping around, murder, and the like, but I choose not to be part of that.


You are right when you say that you “choose not to be part of the filthy world”. So do I and so do most people all over the world!
However, more often than not we cannot completely evade ourselves from this filth. It surrounds us in the cities we live, even in our own suburbs. We are constantly witnessing situations all over the world that emphasize this filth and injustice, to the point that, thinking that there is nothing we can do about it, we just cross our arms, feel sorry and sit down in the comfort of our living room.
Right now, there is an impending risk of two million people (most of them children) dying of starvation in Somalia. And all we can do is to feel sorry for them… Let our Governments try to help if they can or if they feel like…
It is like what we do when there is an epidemic disease of some sort. We try to protect ourselves and our families with whatever vaccines or drugs that are supposed to avoid it, and that’s it!
I am not criticizing it. Human nature is just like that. But it should not be like that. However, solidarity is a scarce commodity and has always been.

Grommit82

I do not think that GOD needs any kind of exaltation from us. Pretending He does is just another clear instance of our own arrogance and pride.

And so in your arrogance you do not exault God. Scripture tells us God inhabits our praises, but it isn't for him but for us, where the presence of God exists we are blessed