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View Full Version : Aggressive puppy is my family causing it?


juliap
Apr 16, 2011, 10:15 PM
I have a fifteen week old puppy that has started to growl and bite aggressivly whenever I stop it from doing something. This is different than the regular play biting it actually growls aggressivly and bites hard enough to cause puncture holes on my husband and I.
I have two son's one is three and the other is five. I have another dog that I got from the pound a sheltie when he was nine months old. He is now almost four years old. He is a pretty good dog but he chases our neighbors and cars. I don't think he is aggressive he just wants to herd stuff. He is super submissive to people and other dogs. When I first got him he even peed and rolled over around everything. He does not do that anymore only to other dogs. He is great with our family the kids can hug him and love him and he does great and is totally housetrained. We take him everywhere with us. I have him on an electric fence to prevent him from chasing cars and neighbors.
So I first started trying to get my son a cat. I got a kitten that was free and looked siamese. The kitten was very mean and bit and scartched everyone. I made sure the kids always treated it nice and would just pet it gently but from the very beginning it did not want to be petted. So this cat lives at my father in laws farm. It will let my father in law pet it a little but it bites everyone else. So on to the puppy. I am worried that somehow my family is unwittingly causing animals to turn aggressive.
So after the cat I decided to try a puppy. A stray dog had come into our family and was pregnant so I decided to take a puppy. The dog looked like a purbred American Eskimo toy. The puppies came out looking like purebread beagles. They must be eskimo beagle mix. So my sister in law had the mother and the puppies till they were about three weeks then I took the mother and puppies to my house. I wanted the puppies to be brought up right so I researched a lot. I did not let the kids handle them too much just petting and supurvised holding. I set it up so they had a crate and an area were they could go to the bathroom and kept them super clean. I tried introducing them to different surfaces and even tested their temperament with a temp test I looked up on the internet.
So I started noticing that some of them would growl when you picked them up. One of them fought visiouscly with the mother until she yelled in pain. So I picked the one that had never growled at us. So we gave out all the puppies and the mother to members of our family. I wanted to wait till eight weeks but I ended up giving them away at six and a half weeks. It was just too hard keeping all those puppies and mother dog. I figured that maybe my dog would be better socilization for the puppy instead of the other growly puppies. So Jake is now fifteen weeks and has learned sit, shake, and down. The problem is if he doesn't want to do something he will growl and bite you. He stays outside during the day and inside at night. He tries to jump in the car when we go places because he likes to go with us. So he tried to jump in this last time and we wanted him out of the car and he bit my husband when he tried to pick him up. He has also bitten when I tried to take something away from him. He has also started growling and biting when I get near his food bowl. He play fights with my other submissive dog and wins usually would this cause him to be aggressive? Or is my family somehow causing pets to turn nuts? Is it possible to have a puppy show a little aggression and than later grow out of it?

Lucky098
Apr 17, 2011, 08:56 AM
I don't think you're family is doing anything to trigger this behavior. Some dogs are just overly assertive. Because this puppy came from a stray mama, then there is no way of telling how many daddies it took to create your puppy. Purebreds don't breed with just purebreds ;)... Maybe you should get a DNA test to see what you're dealing with as far as breeds...

As far as his aggression.. It can be beat. Its just going to take a lot of extra things.

Spank him like his mama. She wouldn't tolerate him biting her and telling her what she can and can't do. I have seen adult dogs sit on naughty puppies and not get up until the pup relaxed. I'm not saying sit on him, but push him to the ground and don't release until he relaxes. Don't stare at him, don't talk to him... Just push him down until he gives. Adult dogs, the caregivers in the pack, will also mouth their faces to push the puppy down into the down position. They are not rough with the puppy and never hurt them. This type of behavior from the mother or caretaker teaches the puppy to give. Once again, no growling, no eye contact.. Just do it. If the puppy tries to bite you, then push him to the ground and this time growl at him.

Find what he doesn't like, and continue doing it. That is the only way he ever going to get over his issues. His biting is going to hurt, and you're just going to have to take it and correct him with the above methods. If he continues to aggressively bite you, what I have done in the past, I would hold the mouth shut until he is done with his fits. It's a little unnatural, but the point is proven quickly. You can also bite him back! Yes, with your teeth. Pin him down, secure his head, and bite his ear.

Don't worry about dominance at this point. That will be achieved through working with the dog. Be consistent on everything you do with him. I would also not allow the kids to play with him beyond fetch. If he has an attitude, then he could turn quickly on your kids. You and your husband are going to have to do 100% of the training. I would also suggest that you contact a good trainer that maybe dabbles in behavior. Don't go to Petmart and Petco, they don't know much beyond "sit" and "stay". I would even maybe suggest the trainer have the option to do in home lessons.

I have dealt with this type of puppy before. The people purchased sisters from a farmer. Those puppies were aggressive towards strangers and their 3 year old daughter. The training that was needed would have required them to work with the dogs (the parents)... they didn't go through with it and I lost contact with them. I'm sure both dogs were put down. So I don't want to put pressure on you, but what you're going to be doing now is going to determine his future.

JudyKayTee
Apr 17, 2011, 11:33 AM
I'm not saying sit on him, but push him to the ground and dont release until he relaxes. Dont stare at him, dont talk to him... Just push him down until he gives.

You can also bite him back! Yes, with your teeth. Pin him down, secure his head, and bite his ear.


Do you have a source for pinning down and biting back? One of my GSDs was VERY aggressive as a puppy and it was my understanding that pinning down and/or biting the dog would make bad behavior worse.

I'm not sure that a puppy being bitten by a human understands that it's bite for bite - and not that the human just feels like biting him/her.

Not challenging you - this is just contrary to what I was taught and everything I've ever read.

Lucky098
Apr 17, 2011, 12:08 PM
Dogs understand dog language. If a dog is not listening to the human training techniques, then try the dog language techniques.

Dogs understand what pinning is. They understand when a bite means business or when its just play. Its inherent in them. That is why it is so important for puppies to stay together until (very min.) 8 weeks. That is where they learn all these tools. Its for survival.

Can it trigger aggression? Yes. You are challanging your dogs behavior and firing back with assertiveness. Dogs who want to be charge, or dogs that are just unruly and naughty, don't like it.

Watch how dogs interact with one another. They don't sit down and talk about it. Dogs live by "life or death".. We as humans can find other techniques that sometimes do work.. but sometimes you just got to get down on the ground and become a dog ;)

Whenever I come across a naughty puppy, I start very gentle and playful. Once the aggression comes out of the puppy, I become "mama" and push them down, or away. It does work.. It doesn't fix problems over night. It does take a long time and different behaviors do pop up that have to be handled.

I still think she needs to see a dog trainer/behaviorist if she plans on keeping this puppy, and making it a happy puppy at that. Just like with medical diagnosis, training diagnostics are hard to evaluate over the internet. It just might be the people... Although, a brand new puppy that knows nothing else is very alarming when showing that much aggression.

Aurora_Bell
Apr 17, 2011, 12:56 PM
I also do NOT agree with pinning a dog. Aggressive behavior feeds aggressive behavior. If your dog was separated from the pack before 8 weeks, he lost a lot of his socialization and bite inhibition that he would have learned from his mom and the litter mates. Your puppy, like all puppies will do, is trying to establish himself as alpha. If he doesn't see you as alpha, we automatically assume this position. So it's key to nip this in the bud asap.

Set rules that are humane but consistently enforced. Get your puppy accustomed to your handling off food, toys, and his body. Let him know that toys are a treat, not a privilege, and that food is always served on YOUR schedule, not his. Additionally, cuddle and pet your puppy when he or she is calm, not excited. Do not work your puppy into a fluster and then expect him to not show his teeth or some snarling when you unexpectedly pick him up.

Puppies will scare easily, so when you need to correct his behavior, do it with a firm NO. Not yelling or raising your voice. In a calm, steady, but firm voice use one word. NO. Don't forget to reward the acceptable behavior.

Now since your pup was removed from the pack at an early age, you need to socialize him. This is absolutely crucial in your dog's development and essential in preventing unwanted aggressive behavior. The more used to other dogs and people your puppy is, the less likely he will develop common aggression problems later in life. Show him respectful behavior towards children, visitors, and other dogs at an early age, and reinforce this behavior. Your dog will learn to love people and other dogs, and relish in their company. Obedience school and puppy classes are a great bonding experience, and a great way to establish yourself as alpha.

I do have to ask, why does your dog spend all day outside? What's the point of having a dog if he isn't allowed to socialize with his new pack? It also sounds like he is bullying your old dog. Not fair for him either. I don't think your family is causing these animals to be aggressive. Some breeds are more aggressive then others, and all puppies will try toe stablish themselves as alpha. It's a dog thing. :)

Lucky098
Apr 17, 2011, 01:12 PM
Alpha behavior is established at 6 months of age.. when the dog reaches sexual maturity *teenager stage* NOT at 15 weeks of age.

I am starting to work against the "must become alpha" training methods. Too many people create a crazy dog with these "I need to be in charge at all times" antics.

She kept the litter and the mom. The puppy was with the group for quite awhile. I don't think the OP was specific on age, but according to the veterinary world, 7 weeks is an OK (not desierable) age to find a new home.

This dog is biting and causing harm to the people. Some type of force needs to be introduced correctly in order for everyone to be safe.

But what do I know ;)

Aurora_Bell
Apr 17, 2011, 01:24 PM
Alpha is established from day one. Sorry that you don't agree with it, but that doesn't make it wrong. Her dog is trying to test the waters. Your other posts have agreed with this theory, now you are suggesting to pin and act aggressively towards the dog? When did your opinion change so drastically?

So if pinning isn't establishing alpha, what is it doing? You don't have to beat a dog down to show dominance.

Aurora_Bell
Apr 17, 2011, 02:10 PM
And why is it illegal to sell or give pups away before 8 weeks of age? In the year that I took of animal behavior, we were taught it's essential to leave pups with the pack until they are at LEAST 8 weeks of age. And wasn't it in one of your posts that stated veterinarians didn't really know much about animal behavior?

JudyKayTee
Apr 17, 2011, 02:14 PM
Alpha behavior is established at 6 months of age.. when the dog reaches sexual maturity *teenager stage* NOT at 15 weeks of age.

I am starting to work against the "must become alpha" training methods. Too many people create a crazy dog with these "I need to be in charge at all times" antics.

She kept the litter and the mom. The puppy was with the group for quite awhile. I dont think the OP was specific on age, but according to the veterinary world, 7 wks is an ok (not desierable) age to find a new home.

This dog is biting and causing harm to the people. Some type of force needs to be introduced correctly in order for everyone to be safe.

But what do I know ;)


Here's my problem - some type of force does NOT have to introduced "correctly" or otherwise. I see no "correct" way to use force.

Would you use force "correctly" against a chld?

I don't consider the humans needing to be in charge all the time to be an antic. It's a way of training and living with your dog(s). How are you working against that thinking? Posting here?

And spare me the passive/aggressive "what do I know" lines.

Lucky098
Apr 19, 2011, 07:39 PM
Every dog has its own way of learning and its own way of finding its nitch in the pack. If a puppy is biting me and drawing blood and being outright aggressive towards me and is biting my kids (if I had any)... I'm not going to sit and beg for it to listen, I'm not going to fight my way to the top by teaching the puppy to sit and so on. Different situations call for different methods. Not every training technique works and I think if someone is having issues such as this, different methods should be posted.. not arguments on what is right or wrong. Training has no right or wrong. Its based on whatever works for the dog and the person. If making the dog sit and wait for its food works for the OP and her dog, then great! Glad she found something that hit home. But if it didn't, then what? Continue beating the dead horse?

I also don't like, and never really have, telling people they need to be alpha and scaring them with the dominance speech. People do strange things when they think they need to be in charge. And that is advise that I got from a seasoned dog trainer who I shadowed for 6wks.

Call me a bad trainer if you want.. argue with me on everything I post, try and catch me contradicting myself.. Go for it.. If you have a different method or a better method or a method that worked really good for you, then post it.. don't argue with me or something I said. I've worked with many fire-breathing puppies, snappy adults and had to adapt to every personality.. Not every method works. I think I even came up with my own method for some of it.. And now I'm working with the big guys *horses*.. and its an all new ball game!

And from my understanding... during my behavior/nursing class.. 7wk old puppies can be adopted through an agency/rescue.. however it is against the law to sell the puppies under the age of 8 weeks. I still think all puppies should be sold at 10 weeks... But I suppose adopting puppies at 7 weeks is better then 4 weeks.. I still think the OP kept the pup until proper age.. she claims to have given a temp. test which can only be given at 8wks of age.. otherwise the results are not correct.. but then again, that could have been the issue in the first place.

Not trying to argue with anyone.. Not trying to prove I'm right or wrong.. Just getting real tired of being put in the lime light because I said something *you* don't like.

grammadidi
Apr 19, 2011, 08:33 PM
1. This puppy needs a LOT more socializaton with other dogs and with people. If your intent is that he will be an outside dog he should probably go to another home as he is a dog that needs people (as most dogs are)... especially at such a young age. How can you teach a puppy how to behave with people if he is alone most of the time?
2. You need to attend puppy classes with the dog and practice several times a day - even the kids should participate in mini-training sessions with your supervision.
3. When the puppy is in the house or when you are interacting with him put a leash on him and allow it to drag on the ground. If it acts aggressive or dominant in any way correct it immediately. Then get it to obey a command (sit, shake, down, etc.) and praise him excitedly - reward with a small piece of kibble inconsistently.
4. The dog needs to be challenged more mentally. At 15 weeks he should know sit, stand, stay, come, shake a paw, sit pretty, find it, no, bring it here, drop it, heel and more.
5. The puppy is probably teething on top of it. Make sure he has lots of chewy type toys.

With the puppy being a male, being separated from his siblings at a crucial time in his development and being socially isolated I feel you are just asking for problems. This definitely needs to dealt with immediately. If you do nothing else you should do the leash thing when you can supervise; a quick immediate correction for negative behavior; lots of praise, love & attention for positive behavior; get the dog into puppy classes and, if at all possible take the dog for walks in the community as well as meeting other dogs. You may have to put him into 1/2 day a week doggy day care to do this, but it is imperative that he learns now or he will be a dangerous aggressive dog that will have to be euthanized or will be given up and may be shifted around from home to home to home which will only make him worse.

I sincerely think he is lonely, bored and confused. He needs love, direction and challenges.

Good luck!

Hugs, Didi