I find this sad because of how much it has scared Depressed in MO. How many people, like Depressed, are tucking their kids in at night, terrified that they will never have a future, because of this?

Yes, and devastating for a parent to think they will never see their children again on this earth. Sad, sad, sad.

Tick

I find this sad because of how much it has scared Depressed in MO. How many people, like Depressed, are tucking their kids in at night, terrified that they will never have a future, because of this?

Hello everyone, I hope I have not made everybody think I was "ducking" out of the discussion, I didn't have access to the internet during the weekend.

I really don't have much more to say about it-I would like to make some statements though.

First of all, I apologize to everyone on here-it seems like I've got quite a few members worked up. I just want to make sure that everyone understands that it was NOT my intention at all.

Even to HSB: My purpose was not to call you out specifically so that you could get caught up in a nasty religious debate. This subject bothers me to the extremes obviously. I was looking for some answers from you to explain more about this theory and what made your heart believe in it...

Furthermore, I appreciate everyone's opinions on here and I hope I don't piss anyone off by saying that I still do not know what to believe. I'm still scared to death about the end possibly being near. I don't want to believe it, My opinion is with that of most of you-I don't believe that God would end it in such a way. I still do not know though.

I do know that I have sinned a lot in my life and I have a lot of repenting to do. If it actually really could be true, I just don't want my family to suffer-that's what worries me the most.

Depressed in MO: don't be sorry. Everyone here posts out of their own free will, and no one is obligated to read this thread or stay subscribed to it. You gave us a forum to discuss something that I believe has been on our minds/gotten on our nerves/had us wondering because of other threads.

I am sorry, HSB, for my posts that came across (and some were even intended to be) sarcastic. I respect your beliefs, regardless of how founded or factual I see them to be. Because this May 21, 2011 theory is terrifying for people and I personally view it to be fear mongering, it does upset me. That doesn't give me much of a right to be sarcastic about other people's views.

I do very much hope you're wrong. I pray you're wrong. We'll find out.

I do very much hope you're wrong. I pray you're wrong. We'll find out.

I feel exactly the same way!:)

As a Christian you should not be scared. Instead you should be looking foreword to spending eternity with Christ. Now, if you are not a Christian I can see how this discussion would bother you.

I went to bible school when I was from kindergarten; I was raised as they told me that I was Anglican. Is being a christian a relaltive term because I think it is. I am not scared of the outcome, and I thought, (excuse me) this started in another thread that this was about the Mayan calender. How did this discussion become so completely religious. Some of us don't subscribe to this way of thinking but here it is, in all its glory with scripitures being quoted, etal.

Sorry, I am quite happy with my lot in life, I am working hard, paying my bills, loving my family and I am really not afraid to go (at the moment) my son hates me making plans and he knows I want to be cremated and my ashes scattered on a beach of my choosing. So, what is there actually to do? I am enjoying what I have left.

By the way my avvy is my art in stained glass, I am sorry I can't display it bigger; but being gifted in my art form is a good part of my happiness.

Tick

i thought, (excuse me) this started out in another thread that this was about the Mayan calender. How did this discussion become so completely religous.
This thread concerns the prediction of the Rapture at the end of May 2011 and Judgment Day in Oct. The religious aspect is implicit because the man responsible for this prediction is an off-the-beaten-path Protestant who owns a religious radio station in TN, I think, and is constantly on the air talking about the end of the world.

Furthermore, I appreciate everyone's opinions on here and I hope I don't piss anyone off by saying that I still do not know what to believe. I'm still scared to death about the end possibly being near. I don't want to believe it, My opinion is with that of most of you-I don't believe that God would end it in such a way. I still do not know though

I'm going to go slightly off topic, just to address this part of your post.

I am not Christian, so I don't know if you'll take comfort in anything that I have to say, but I do speak from my heart, so I hope you'll listen.

If by some chance all this end of the world stuff is true, then there's nothing at all anyone can do about it, other then the God you believe in.

One thing I can tell you. If the end of the world is near, then worrying about it every day and night, isn't going to change a thing.

You could walk out of your house tomorrow and get hit by a car and die. You could find out tomorrow that you have terminal cancer and only have a short time to live. You could be gunned down on the street by some madman. Anything can happen. Every day we have on earth is a gift. Every single minute we have with our loved ones is a gift. Live life that way and you can't go wrong, even if the end of the world is next month.

I watched both of my parents die of cancer 6 1/2 months apart. I was 30 when they died. They were way too young to go. I may not have faith in God, but losing my parents gave me a gift, I found my faith in life. Since that time I live each day as if it was my last. I hug my kids every chance I get. I never miss an opportunity to tell someone I love them. Each moment is precious. Not because I'm trying to get to heaven, not because I believe the end is near, only because I choose to live, however long that may be.

If I die tomorrow, I'm at peace. I lived my life the best way I could. I have no regrets.

Please, don't worry about tomorrow. Live for today. :)

I'm going to go slightly off topic, just to address this part of your post.

I am not Christian, so I don't know if you'll take comfort in anything that I have to say, but I do speak from my heart, so I hope you'll listen.

If by some chance all this end of the world stuff is true, then there's nothing at all anyone can do about it, other then the God you believe in.

One thing I can tell you. If the end of the world is near, then worrying about it every day and night, isn't going to change a thing.

You could walk out of your house tomorrow and get hit by a car and die. You could find out tomorrow that you have terminal cancer and only have a short time to live. You could be gunned down on the street by some madman. Anything can happen. Every day we have on earth is a gift. Every single minute we have with our loved ones is a gift. Live life that way and you can't go wrong, even if the end of the world is next month.

I watched both of my parents die of cancer 6 1/2 months apart. I was 30 when they died. They were way too young to go. I may not have faith in God, but losing my parents gave me a gift, I found my faith in life. Since that time I live each day as if it was my last. I hug my kids every chance I get. I never miss an opportunity to tell someone I love them. Each moment is precious. Not because I'm trying to get to heaven, not because I believe the end is near, only because I choose to live, however long that may be.

If I die tomorrow, I'm at peace. I lived my life the best way I could. I have no regrets.

Please, don't worry about tomorrow. Live for today. :)

Thank You Alty. Someone who finally put into words what I couldn't.

Of the doctrines Mr.Camping promotes:
I. the Method of Bible Interpretation.
II. The Character of Salvation and the Character of Judgment.
III. The Time-Line of History including the precise time of Judgment (May 21, 2011).

Item III is the most subject to doubt. I had hoped the urgency might influence people to re-examine their own views on items I. and II. To me those two doctrines are much less doubtful. If item III fails to occur precisely as predicted, for me personally items I and II will continue to be as before. In that case item III will have to be re-evaluated.

To be honest, I admit that I have moments of doubt. If I didn't I wouldn't be human. But it seems to me the teachings are so well thought out and supported by the Bible that it's difficult not to believe.

Of the doctrines Mr.Camping promotes:
I. the Method of Bible Interpretation.
II. the Character of Salvation and the Character of Judgment.
III. the Time-Line of History including the precise time of Judgment (May 21, 2011).

But it seems to me the teachings are so well thought out and supported by the Bible that it's difficult not to believe.

I can see where altering I. to be perceived in a specific way (Camping's way) could make III. Believable. Without following Camping word for word, what do you believe? With all of your time studying the bible and the word of God... what do you believe?

As stated before I can take ANY book and re-interpret it anyway I want. Dig way deep into the simplest meanings and conjure a formula to support a theory.

Just because the bible does in fact say certain things, does not mean Camping's interpreation of such is accurate or justifies his formula. Every word, sentence, phrase, story can be interpreted different ways by different people. Why is Camping's theory so compelling? Is it because it's difficult to understand, well thought out and precise, leaving it difficult to not believe.

If I believed in every well thought out scam... I would be broke!

ITstudent2006

Thanks for taking the time to post on this thread. You seem like a nice person. But without actually having taken a close look yourself at the method that I'm referring to as item I, you are just blowing smoke. I'm not just talking generalities here. What I have called "the method" is not a method at all in the conventional sense. The Bible itself gives specific rules and guidelines. And Mr.Camping follows them. Unlike many other Bible teachers who do not.

Want to discuss more ?

1. The Bible may or may not give rules and guidelines. It does not give exact interpretation of every word, sentence and phrase. Please show me these rules the Bible have set forth on how to accurately interpret it's content in it's entirety.

2. "Want to discuss more?" This is an arrogant tone. Plain and simple, you seem very arrogant and biased towards "non-believers" specifically, "non-Camping believers". Again, you are very cunning in the way you dance around questions and only answer with bigger words and twisted meanings of previous statements to throw the topic array.

I take in consideration that you have been backed into a corner by ALL members of this thread but lashing out instead of keeping you demeanor, to me, shows doubt. Instead of handling this tactfully you create arrogant, sarcastic responses belittling any imposer to your belief... sad really!

But without actually having taken a close look yourself at the method that I'm referring to as item I, you are just blowing smoke.
Can you link us to M. Campings complete description of his methodology please. I thinks it's the only way for us to understand.

ITstudent2006: 1. The Bible may or may not give rules and guidelines. It does not give exact interpretation of every word, sentence and phrase. Please show me these rules the Bible have set forth on how to accurately interpret it's content in it's entirety.
2. "Want to discuss more?" This is an arrogant tone. Plain and simple, you seem very arrogant and biased towards "non-believers" specifically, "non-Camping believers". Again, you are very cunning in the way you dance around questions and only answer with bigger words and twisted meanings of previous statements to throw the topic array.
I take in consideration that you have been backed into a corner by ALL members of this thread but lashing out instead of keeping you demeanor, to me, shows doubt. Instead of handling this tactfully you create arrogant, sarcastic responses belittling any imposer to your belief... sad really!


As I expected. Your reply puzzles me. Sentence 1. Expresses skepticism, and yet you claim to want to see the rules. Why ? You're obviously way too smart to learn anything from a cultist like myself.
Number 2. was simply an invitation. Nothing more. I feel sorry that it brought out the feelings of contempt that you've expressed.

I ask you again. Do you want to discuss, rationally ? Or do you want to hurl accusations ? The choice is yours.

HeadStrongBoy: But without actually having taken a close look yourself at the method that I'm referring to as item I, you are just blowing smoke.
NeedKarma: Can you link us to M. Campings complete description of his methodology please. I thinks it's the only way for us to understand.

I have already given the web address. Here it is again... http://www.familyradio.com.

As far as I remember there is not one specific publication that simply lists the rules found in the Bible that relate to interpretation. That particular subject is a special interest of mine. But I'd be glad to list them for your below.
[1]Every word of the entire Bible is directly from the mouth of God. 2 Peter 1:21, Matthew 4:4, Luke 4:4, Jeremiah 36:2, John 17:17, 2 Timothy 3:16.
[2]God speaks in parables in many places in the Bible. Job 27:1, Psalm 78:2, Proverbs 26:9, Matthew 13:34.
[3]We need to compare scriptures before coming to any conclusions. 1 Corinthians 2:13, Isaiah 28:10.
[4]The importance and meaning of numbers as God uses them in the Bible. This is NOT a method of numerology.
[5]Realizing that the New Testament and the Old Testament are really one covenant. Hebrews 10:16.
[6]Realizing that unless God Himself opens our minds we will not perceive truth. Luke 24:45. And realizing that God also sends strong delusion to those He wishes to harden. Exodus 7:13, 2 Timothy 2:11.
[7]Realizing that the Bible is a living book. God is actively engaged in every aspect of it's teaching. Hebrews 4:12. In this context the word quick means "alive" or "living."

As you see I have not given references for every rule. Some issues do not easily lend themselves to very plain exposition. And I do not feel expert enough at this moment to elaborate. And it is also possible to combine some rules under a major sub-heading to simplify the structure of the outline. But it is a work in progress because God treats each of us as individuals who have different capabilities. But that's a very rough outline. And above all humility and prayer are required. God is watching.

Thanks for the link. The info seems to be in this PDF: http://www.familyradio.com/PDFS/waat.pdf It's a long one and already it has issues.

He says:

However, in order to give authority to the verses they are using to teach
What they want to teach, Bible teachers declare that the Bible is infallible and
Without error. But they actually do not believe that this is really true of each and
Every word in the whole Bible. If they did believe the whole Bible was infallible,
They would never speak of such things as scribal error. They do not understand
That God has protected His Word so that a scribal error could not occur.
But earlier he says:

In Hebrews 8:8, the Bible declares:
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith
The Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel
And with the house of Judah:
In this verse, the phrase “I will make a new covenant” should have
Been translated “I will finish a new covenant.”
Is he not contradicting himself?

Also he says:
Considerable evidence in the Bible points to the fact that, in all
Likelihood, Jesus, who is the very essence of the jubilee, was born on October 2,
In 7 B.CSo why set Christmas on a Pagan holiday?

Another quaint quote:

But then, as we shall discover in this study, 2,300 days after the
Beginning of the great tribulation, God's final great salvation program began.
That day of history was September 7, 1994 (A.D.). It was on that date that God
Again poured out His Holy Spirit, so that for the next 17 years, all over the world,
A great multitude of people would become saved.* Indeed, no one was aware of
This awesome action of God at the time it occurred. But the Bible assures us that
It did occur.
And later he goes on to manke many wild interpretations (p.34)

It has all the feel of a cult document, or of someone who believes they are a chosen prophet.

he says: However, in order to give authority to the verses they are using to teach
What they want to teach, Bible teachers declare that the Bible is infallible and
Without error. But they actually do not believe that this is really true of each and
Every word in the whole Bible. If they did believe the whole Bible was infallible,
They would never speak of such things as scribal error. They do not understand
That God has protected His Word so that a scribal error could not occur. But earlier he says:
Quoting : In Hebrews 8:8, the Bible declares:
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith
The Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel
And with the house of Judah:
In this verse, the phrase “I will make a new covenant� should have
Been translated “I will finish a new covenant.�
NeedKarma: Is he not contradicting himself?

No he is not contradicting himself. We need to understand the difference between the Word as given in the original languages, and the translation into our modern languages. He is referring to scribal error of the original manuscript only (which does not exist anymore). Translations and copies can have errors. And it is true that God can manipulate anything to suit His purpose, including errors. Also you're forgetting rule number [6]. God knows why you're questioning this particular issue. He knows the intricacies of your mind and your heart. I do not.

Also you're forgetting rule number [6]. God knows why you're questioning this particular issue. He knows the intricacies of your mind and your heart. Nah, he doesn't. That's true for all of us.

Headstrongboy-Can I ask what version of the bible you use? Thank you for your references that you just gave I really want to read them from the version you do so that I can try to understand where you're coming from.

ITstudent2006

Thanks for taking the time to post on this thread. You seem like a nice person. But without actually having taken a close look yourself at the method that I'm referring to as item I, you are just blowing smoke. I'm not just talking generalities here. What I have called "the method" is not a method at all in the conventional sense. The Bible itself gives specific rules and guidelines. And Mr.Camping follows them. Unlike many other Bible teachers who do not.

Want to discuss more ?

So in essence you are FINALLY confirming that you believe that Camping's interpretation is the ONLY correct interpretation, and the rest of us can't really read or understand the Bible.

NeedKarma: It has all the feel of a cult document, or of someone who believes they are a chosen prophet.

Of course you're completely entitled to your feelings. But you asked me for the list of rules that refer to Bible interpretation. Then you go off on a tangent. Again your privilege.

I personally do not consider Mr.Camping as the final authority. Neither do I consider my own opinion as the final authority. Learning from the Bible (Which is my goal. I don't know about you.) is a painstaking and slow process that requires we look at the Bible as the authority.

I did not put the list out there just to stroke my ego. God gives us His knowledge of the Bible so that we may diligently apply it. Something that you are apparently not about to do.

As a Christian you should not be scared. Instead you should be looking foreword to spending eternity with Christ. Now, if you are not a Christian I can see how this discussion would bother you.

I see your point-I guess ultimately I'm afraid of death and I'm afraid of witnessing the death of my family. It's just all so hard to grasp no matter how I look at it.

Then you go off on a tangent. Again your privilege.No tangent, I commented directly to the material and person in question. If you feel that I did not follow the discussion line as per your vison then that is your privilege to be erroneous.

God gives us His knowledge of the Bible so that we may diligently apply it. Something that you are apparently not about to do.I lead a good life without applying the rules of a book. But thanks for inquiring. Take care and good luck with your impending death.

I'm going to go slightly off topic, just to address this part of your post.

I am not Christian, so I don't know if you'll take comfort in anything that I have to say, but I do speak from my heart, so I hope you'll listen.

If by some chance all this end of the world stuff is true, then there's nothing at all anyone can do about it, other then the God you believe in.

One thing I can tell you. If the end of the world is near, then worrying about it every day and night, isn't going to change a thing.

You could walk out of your house tomorrow and get hit by a car and die. You could find out tomorrow that you have terminal cancer and only have a short time to live. You could be gunned down on the street by some madman. Anything can happen. Every day we have on earth is a gift. Every single minute we have with our loved ones is a gift. Live life that way and you can't go wrong, even if the end of the world is next month.

I watched both of my parents die of cancer 6 1/2 months apart. I was 30 when they died. They were way too young to go. I may not have faith in God, but losing my parents gave me a gift, I found my faith in life. Since that time I live each day as if it was my last. I hug my kids every chance I get. I never miss an opportunity to tell someone I love them. Each moment is precious. Not because I'm trying to get to heaven, not because I believe the end is near, only because I choose to live, however long that may be.

If I die tomorrow, I'm at peace. I lived my life the best way I could. I have no regrets.

Please, don't worry about tomorrow. Live for today. :)


Thank you for sharing this, this is very nice and comforting. I was actually raised baptist but was also always taught to live each day as its last and to let every person in my life know every day how much I love them.

The more I re-read through all of my posts, the more I see how paranoid I am.:o

Synnen: So in essence you are FINALLY confirming that you believe that Camping's interpretation is the ONLY correct interpretation, and the rest of us can't really read or understand the Bible.

I'm never sure what to say to someone like yourself, who has such powerful authority over me.

Let me put it this way. I believe that Camping's approach is the most accurate that I have found so far.

As far as my opinion about "the rest of us"... What does it have to do with anything ?

As far as my opinion about "the rest of us".....What does it have to do with anything ?I think she is referring to the few billion christians who haven't come to the same conclusions as M. Camping, that would even include lifelong biblical scholars.

HeadStrongBoy-before the conversation veers off from the bible verses too much longer, may I please know the version of the bible you use?

Depressed in MO: The more I re-read through all of my posts, the more I see how paranoid I am.

Your comments strike me as those of a human being. I can relate to the feelings of paranoia. Unfortunately one drowning person is not of much help to another drowning person.

Get my drift ?

The more I re-read through all of my posts, the more I see how paranoid I am.:o
This is what the fear monger/cultists feed off. They feed off your fear and paranoia to get you to listen to their agenda. Don't fall for it.

No problemo, dude. I'm prejudiced in favor of the original King James Version. Though on occasion I have used the German Martin Luther translation. I also semi-regularly I refer to online interlinear Greek and interlinear Hebrew versions. I guess that's about it.

Gracias

Your comments strike me as those of a human being. I can relate to the feelings of paranoia. Unfortunately one drowning person is not of much help to another drowning person.

Get my drift ?

No sir I don't. Although speaking metaphorically can be beautiful, I just don't always get it.

I'd say my lesson so far reading comments between you and the others is the fact that I need to read the bible. I've truly never read the entire thing, just parts here and there. It's hard to understand and there are so many different versions of the bible-which one is the right one to go to?

Well, if you can read Greek or Hebrew, finding a Bible in either language would be good.

Lacking those languages, the generally accepted Bible throughout the world is the King James Version.

This is what the fear monger/cultists feed off of. They feed off of your fear and paranoia to get you to listen to their agenda. Don't fall for it.

I know-one of the worst parts about me-my ability to be so gullible...

I know-one of the worst parts about me-my ability to be so gullible...

You have been through so much in the past few years, don't fall for this. Please! I'm one of the few here who knows where you came from and how far you have come. Just keep following your path. Don't let this cultist place fear and doubt in your heart.

Depressed in MO: No sir I don't. Although speaking metaphorically can be beautiful, I just don't always get it.
I'd say my lesson so far reading comments between you and the others is the fact that I need to read the bible. I've truly never read the entire thing, just parts here and there. It's hard to understand and there are so many different versions of the bible-which one is the right one to go to?

I apologize. I was trying to be clever. If I may, I'd like to offer some advice along more serious lines.

Your observation is correct that some people on this post have more Bible knowledge than others. But I believe that quantity of knowledge is not the important thing. The Bible indicates that God is more interested in a contrite spirit and a broken heart. That is the other element of the environment in which God is saving people in our day, NOT the churches.

I apologize. I was trying to be clever. If I may, I'd like to offer some advice along more serious lines.

Your observation is correct that some people on this post have more Bible knowledge than others. But I believe that quantity of knowledge is not the important thing. The Bible indicates that God is more interested in a contrite spirit and a broken heart. That is the other element of the environment in which God is saving people in our day, NOT the churches.

I wasn't offended-I just didn't quite get what you were saying:cool:.

I like going to church. It feels and seems genuine when I'm listening to the preacher... I understand it better than the holy bible because of the examples that are given...

If this is true what you believe in, or what you are saying, would God look down on me for continuing to go to church? My children love it I'd hate to take it away from them.

You may not be able to answer that, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm just trying to do the right thing.

You have been through so much in the past few years, don't fall for this. Please! I'm one of the few here who knows where you came from and how far you have come. Just keep following your path. Don't let this cultist place fear and doubt in your heart.

I know, you do know quite a bit about me. I don't post on here anymore that often, but I have come a very long way and I enjoy communicating with you all.

I was lost for a very long time, and although I'm not completely "found" (so to speak), I'm just not ready to go yet, I feel like I've just started going down the "right" path, I want to continue my journey for as long as I can.

Depressed: I like going to church. It feels and seems genuine when I'm listening to the preacher... I understand it better than the holy bible because of the examples that are given...
If this is true what you believe in, or what you are saying, would God look down on me for continuing to go to church? My children love it I'd hate to take it away from them.
You may not be able to answer that, and I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I'm just trying to do the right thing.

My advice is that, since May 21, 2011 is only about 6 weeks away don't go to any church at least until then.

My advice is that, since May 21, 2011 is only about 6 weeks away don't go to any church at least until then.

:( ugh you're breaking my heart. But I appreciate your advice.

As I expected. Your reply puzzles me. Sentence 1. Expresses skepticism, and yet you claim to want to see the rules. Why ? You're obviously way too smart to learn anything from a cultist like myself.
Number 2. was simply an invitation. Nothing more. I feel sorry that it brought out the feelings of contempt that you've expressed.

I ask you again. Do you want to discuss, rationally ? Or do you want to hurl accusations ? The choice is yours.

1. Can a skeptic not keep an open-mind? Or is a skeptic forever bound by the lack of knowledge he/she has?

2. That is the first thing you got right all week. Contempt... is what I feel. I despise a man who hides behind formulas, excuses and big words to dance around questions being asked of him, all to reassure himself that what he does is right. When the time comes and the Day of Judgement does not come, and you are accused of being a joke, you will point to Mr. Camping as a scapegoat. Why? Because you're a sheep and he's the shepard.

I too live my life by no book. When I go to Afghanistan to fight for your freedom to spread this nonsense, there will be no book, no faith other than my brothers-in-arms. I don't need to have a purpose in life to feel fulfilled. When May 23rd comes around, I will drink to this. I will drink to you and the other sheep out there.

~nostrovia

My advice is to continue to do what makes you feel close to your god.

If going to church helps you organize your thoughts and beliefs, there is absolutely no reason why you cannot continue to go.

Besides--churches are an excellent place to find support and unconditional love from fellow human beings.

My advice is to continue to do what makes you feel close to your god.

If going to church helps you organize your thoughts and beliefs, there is absolutely no reason why you cannot continue to go.

Besides--churches are an excellent place to find support and unconditional love from fellow human beings.
Here, Here.

HeadStrongBoy: My advice is that, since May 21, 2011 is only about 6 weeks away don't go to any church at least until then.
Depressed: ugh you're breaking my heart. But I appreciate your advice.

I think I understand your need for fellowship, and that of your children. I'm sure that God will honor your desire to be obedient to His word. If you seek alternatives to church maybe a door will open that can provide what you need without being under the spiritual authority of any particular denomination.

I read two major Canadian newspapers every morning, and to be quite honest, have never heard mention of this Camping in any one of them.

Have you eveer heard his name NK, other then on here?

Tick

My advice is to continue to do what makes you feel close to your god.

If going to church helps you organize your thoughts and beliefs, there is absolutely no reason why you cannot continue to go.

Besides--churches are an excellent place to find support and unconditional love from fellow human beings.

Thank you, I agree that it is a great place for unconditional love.

I think I understand your need for fellowship, and that of your children. I'm sure that God will honor your desire to be obedient to His word. If you seek alternatives to church maybe a door will open that can provide what you need without being under the spiritual authority of any particular denomination.

Thanks, I'm still deciding on which church I want to remain at, I'm still "church-hopping" at this point. :D

Tick,

I have never heard of Camping until I posted this thread... I certainly never heard of him back in 1988 either... I did read on CNN.com about a month or so ago regarding this subject however... I don't remember mention of his name. I'll see if I can find it and try to post it if I can.

HSB- It's safe to assume evolution didn't happen right?

Tick,

I have never heard of Camping until I posted this thread...I certainly never heard of him back in 1988 either... I did read on CNN.com about a month or so ago regarding this subject however...I don't remember mention of his name. I'll see if I can find it and try to post it if I can.

Hi Depressed, thanks but no thanks, I have read enough about him here to last me a lifetime. :)

He has had some pretty good mileage here, I wonder if he has in his own community ?

Tick

The Bible indicates that God is more interested in a contrite spirit and a broken heart.
Ummmm, actually, it's the reverse -- a contrite heart and broken spirit.

ITstudent2006: I despise a man...

Thanks for confirming what I already knew.

P.S. Notice my avatar name is HeadStrongBoy. So at least I'm not misrepresenting myself.
I don't claim to be in the same league of testosterone filled manhood as yourself.

:( ugh you're breaking my heart. But I appreciate your advice.

Appreciate it, but don't take it. Get with other believers who can help strengthen your faith. That's what the church is all about. Don't isolate yourself; that's one of the worst things a Christian can do.

ITstudent is super manly and we love him. =)

Depressed in MO:ugh you're breaking my heart. But I appreciate your advice.
Dwashbur:Appreciate it, but don't take it. Get with other believers who can help strengthen your faith. That's what the church is all about. Don't isolate yourself; that's one of the worst things a Christian can do.

If you'd take the trouble to read my subsequent post you'd see I don't recommend isolation either. The essential point is to NOT be under the spiritual authority of any church, because Satan rules there.

And the one to "strengthen" our faith is God and His word, not other people. Though people can be instrumental in either direction... toward God or toward Satan.

Have you eveer heard his name NK, other then on here?
tickHe's american. Never heard of him 'itll this thread. I'm guessing that since he was wrong about his 1994 prediction he lost any credibility he may have had.

If you'd take the trouble to read my subsequent post you'd see I don't recommend isolation either. The essential point is to NOT be under the spiritual authority of any church, because Satan rules there.

And the one to "strengthen" our faith is God and His word, not other people. Though people can be instrumental in either direction...toward God or toward Satan.
So how do you propose someone be strengthened by others, yet not be "under the spiritual authority of a church" (whatever that means)?

P.S. Notice my avatar name is HeadStrongBoy. So at least I'm not misrepresenting myself.You're a 62 year old man. :rolleyes:

He's american. Never heard of him 'itll this thread. I'm guessing that since he was wrong about his 1994 prediction he lost any credibility he may have had.
I'm American, read two dailies and a number of magazines, but had never heard of him until HSB showed up. I know about the Koran-burning guy though :).

WG:"under the spiritual authority of a church" (whatever that means)?

The Bible teaches that the new testament churches have three basic characteristics that typify their structure.
[1] Spiritual leadership. For example bishops, pastors, elders, deacons, teachers, etc. They have the authority to perform the two ceremonial rites of water baptism and the Lord's table. They also have the authority to excommunicate members.
[2] Members. These are the ordinary rank and file who are under the authority described in item [1].
[3] Services offering the ceremonial rites of water baptism and the Lord's table.

Those three characteristics were set up by God Himself to be followed during the Church Age from AD 33 until AD 1988. But now since 1988 "the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place." "Let those in Judea (the Christians) flee to the mountain" (the kingdom of God outside the churches). To be a church member in our day means to be under the authority of (actually worshiping) Satan.

And you have a mustache and a pipe!

And you have a mustache and a pipe!
Yes, yes I do.

On another note, I'll never understand how people take simple words from the bible and reinterpret them to mean something entirely different.

To be a church member in our day means to be under the authority of (actually worshiping) Satan.
My pastor father would not be happy to hear you say that.

So when a pastor preaches Christ crucified, that's actually of Satan?

What about Christian grade schools and high schools and colleges? Are they also Satan's work now?

Yes, yes I do.

On another note, I'll never understand how people take simple words from the bible and reinterpret them to mean something entirely different.
An American example:

"All men are created equal"

The word "men" used to mean something sooo very different than what it means today.

AND if you read any bills, laws, etc, the definitions of terms takes up half the document if not more.

Thorough definition so that there can be NO confusion of interpretation is vital, if we expect people to agree on what is written.

Even then, it isn't so iron clad.

The Bible teaches that the new testament churches have three basic characteristics that typify their structure.
[1] Spiritual leadership. For example bishops, pastors, elders, deacons, teachers, etc. They have the authority to perform the two ceremonial rites of water baptism and the Lord's table. They also have the authority to excommunicate members.
[2] Members. These are the ordinary rank and file who are under the authority described in item [1].
[3] Services offering the ceremonial rites of water baptism and the Lord's table.

Sounds exactly like the last three churches I've been to, and the next one I'm going to check out. Amazing how that works.



Those three characteristics were set up by God Himself to be followed during the Church Age from AD 33 until AD 1988. But now since 1988 "the abomination of desolation is standing in the holy place." "Let those in Judea (the Christians) flee to the mountain" (the kingdom of God outside the churches). To be a church member in our day means to be under the authority of (actually worshiping) Satan.

That's assuming one accepts the ridiculous number-manipulation that arrives at 1988 as something significant, which I don't. So I think I'll keep going to church. Depressed in MO, I suggest you do the same.

NK:On another note, I'll never understand how people take simple words from the bible and reinterpret them to mean something entirely different.

Thank you :rolleyes: for asking that.

The answer is somewhat complex, in my opinion. But in very simple terms (which need to be further explained at a later time perhaps) is that the Bible (we have today) was not intended to be correctly understood by simple minds. After all the author is God Himself. Who could be more mysterious than the INFINITE God Himself to our tiny little minds ? But He has in these last days opened seven seals that make it possible to understand much more accurately IF we humbly follow His rules.

I still don't understand what events constitute the opening of the seals.

But in very simple terms (which need to be further explained at a later time perhaps) is that the Bible (we have today) was not intended to be correctly understood by simple minds. Ah, so it's designed to be understood by small elite group. Gotcha.

the Bible (we have today) was not intended to be correctly understood by simple minds.
But that's EXACTLY how the Bible says our minds are to be as we read it -- simple, uncluttered with complicated calculations and expectations, i.e. read it with the mind of a child.

Thanks for confirming what I already knew.

Not a problem at al..


P.S. Notice my avatar name is HeadStrongBoy. So at least I'm not misrepresenting myself.
Am I misrepresenting myself?
ITSTUDENT2006
ITstudent= I am a student of Information Technology, do I go to school? No, I graduated but being a student in the aspect that I am continually learning.

2006= I graduated in 2006..


I don't claim to be in the same league of testosterone filled manhood as yourself.

You see testosterone filled manhood? I see a man who sees through your faulty formulas, words, and disguise and doesn't refrain from pointing this out to you or to anybody. I call it like I see it, take it or leave it!

P.S. What is your opinion on evolution and the actual evidence provided by science.

Synnen: I still don't understand what events constitute the opening of the seals.

Much as I'd love to answer that, I do not have a concise reply ready for you. I also am learning much new information from the Bible as I progress in my walk. Though I believe I have a somewhat intuitive grasp of the issue of the opening of the seals without having filled in every last detail yet.

ITstudent2006:P.S. What is your opinion on evolution and the actual evidence provided by science.

In a nutshell, I believe the scientific evidence is open to interpretation. I'm inclined to believe that the Earth and the whole universe is no older than 13,022 years and about 10.5 months. Everything else must fit into that time framework. Otherwise Mr.Camping's time-line of history falls apart.

b9acwNHKvoo

How'd you do that ? P.S. the 'U' in Uber needs an umlaut. It's German, and it's pronounced UEBER. Uber means 'super' as in superior.

I don't write the title they are autogenerated by this website. I studied german for a while but didn't use it much after my Europe travels so I'm quite familiar with the umlaut.

To embed a video you have to go into the Advanced posting feature and use the Youtube feature; then it's a matter of inserting the YouTube ID between the tags.

HSB: the Bible (we have today) was not intended to be correctly understood by simple minds.

WG: But that's EXACTLY how the Bible says our minds are to be as we read it -- simple, uncluttered with complicated calculations and expectations, i.e. read it with the mind of a child.

Your point of view might be the correct one IF the verses you're referring to (Matthew 19:14, Mark 10:14, and Luke 18:16) were the only ones that refer to the kingdom of heaven, and to the state of mind of believers. But unfortunately for you, they are not the only ones. The Bible is literally chock full of many other passages that explicitly teach the marvelous complexity of not only the physical creation but also of God's wonderful, mysterious, and multi-dimensional gospel. For example Romans 11:33. "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out." Also Proverbs 4:7. "Wisdom is the principal thing. Therefore get wisdom. And with all thy getting get understanding." And Proverbs 25:2. "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing. But the honor of kings is to search out a matter."

One warning ONLY.

Keep it civil, or the BanHammer comes out.

In a nutshell, I believe the scientific evidence is open to interpretation..

And the Bible isn't?

and the bible isn't?

*greenie*

HSB: But in very simple terms (which need to be further explained at a later time perhaps) is that the Bible (we have today) was not intended to be correctly understood by simple minds.

NK: Ah, so it's designed to be understood by small elite group. Gotcha.

Goodness me ! What was the phraseology you used about following or not following the intent of your line of reasoning a few pages back ? You're doing the same thing again. Going off on a conclusion that suits your particular frame of mind, rather than verifying what the other person really meant.

Let me explain it this way. The whole Bible is published in almost every civilized nation on Earth that has the technology of the printing press. And the Bible is available almost every place on the planet that has book stores. Clearly God wants it to be available universally. And it practically is. In that sense every ordinary citizen who can afford the price of a Bible can have access to all the published truths of God. But let's look at Mark 4:11,12. "And He said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God. But unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables. That seeing they may see and not perceive. And hearing they may hear, and not understand. Lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them."

So... if you wish to call that elitism, please suit yourself. But the words are not mine. I only presented them for you to read. OK ?

HeadStrongBoy: In a nutshell, I believe the scientific evidence is open to interpretation..

ITstudent2006: And the Bible isn't?

Hello ? This is America. You personally are free to choose from a literal rainbow variety of churches, denominations, and interpretations galore. What is holding you back from enjoying that freedom ? Please, interpret to your heart's content. I certainly do not stand in your way.

And the Bible is available almost every place on the planet that has book stores. Clearly God wants it to be available universally. And it practically is.

You know what God wants? I know he didn't publish them and distribute them... the religious folk publish them and distribute them. Why? I don't know, I'm more of a Maxim, and Sports Illustrated follower myself! ;)

The truth is this. I asked you about evolution and you said that it was open for interpretation. How many ways can you interpret a 160,000 year old human skull? The damn things old, plain and simple! How can that be interpreted in any other way? Do you doubt radioisotopial studies? (it's scientifically proven to be accurate)

P.S. A lot older than 10,000 years and 10.5 months or whatever!

itstudent2006: and the bible isn't?

Synnen: *greenie*

What's a *greenie*?

HSB: And the Bible is available almost every place on the planet that has book stores. Clearly God wants it to be available universally. And it practically is.

ITstudent2006: You know what God wants? I know he didn't publish them and distribute them... the religious folk publish them and distribute them. Why? I don't know, I'm more of a Maxim, and Sports Illustrated follower myself! The truth is this. I asked you about evolution and you said that it was open for interpretation. How many ways can you interpret a 160,000 year skull? The damn things old, plain and simple! P.S. A lot older than 10,000 years and 10.5 months or whatever!

Reading your quote above looks to me like you're having a conversation with yourself. Whatever !

Yes I know some things that God wants. He clearly tells us many things He wants in the Bible. All you have to to is read them for yourself. But you're a Maxim and Sports Illustrated follower.

Reading your quote above looks to me like you're having a conversation with yourself. Whatever !

Yes I know some things that God wants. He clearly tells us many things He wants in the Bible. All ya have to to is read them for yourself. But you're a Maxim and Sports Illustrated follower.

HSB-I am pretty sure you took IT's words out of context. He was referring to your assertion that God wants the bible to be universally available.

And making personal attacks as opposed to attacking the argument itself is a type of fallacy. It's rightly named "Personal Attack", and doesn't strengthen your point.

The answer is somewhat complex, in my opinion. But in very simple terms (which need to be further explained at a later time perhaps) is that the Bible (we have today) was not intended to be correctly understood by simple minds. After all the author is God Himself. Who could be more mysterious than the INFINITE God Himself to our tiny little minds ? But He has in these last days opened seven seals that make it possible to understand much more accurately IF we humbly follow His rules.

I have to ask. If God wrote the bible so that his "people" could understand him and follow him, then why would he make it so impossible to understand? After all, he is God, he could have made the bible clear so that every "simple minded" person could understand exactly what he expects.

Instead we have this debate. One person quotes a scripture, and then another person quotes a different scripture, both contradicting each other. So who's right and who's wrong? Both quotes come from this all powerful bible written by God.

Also, not to nitpick, but wasn't the bible written by mortal men? If God wrote it he should be getting the credit for it, not 40 guys that apparently plagiarized his great work.

not 40 guys that apparently plagiarized his great work.
Forty guys?

Okay, maybe my Sunday school studies failed me, but was it not 40 men that wrote the bible? Apostles and prophets?

Okay, maybe my Sunday school studies failed me, but was it not 40 men that wrote the bible? Apostles and prophets?
The exact number is unknown. We don't even know who some of the authors really were.

The exact number is unknown. We don't even know who some of the authors really were.

But the authors were men. Mortal men.

God didn't write a book. The bible wasn't written by God. That's probably why mere mortals can't agree about what the bible actually says. Too many authors, all with different versions of events.

I would think that if God wrote the bible then it would be very clear and easy to understand, not at all open to interpretation.

The exact number is unknown. We don't even know who some of the authors really were.

Yes. The Talmud, tractate Baba Bathra, gives the Rabbis' beliefs about who wrote the various books of the Hebrew Bible, but that's all speculation because many of the books, especially the historical books (Samuel, Kings, Chronicles) are anonymous. In the New Testament, the names given to the gospels are based on tradition; only John gives some kind of hint as to its author. And Hebrews is anonymous. It's sometimes attributed to Paul, but it has serious stylistic differences from Paul's known writings, so we really don't know who wrote it.

Regards,
Peter Pedantic

But the authors were men. Mortal men.

God didn't write a book. The bible wasn't written by God.
"Holy men of God wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit." I can look up its location, if you wish.

That's probably why mere mortals can't agree about what the bible actually says.
No, that's not why.

Too many authors, all with different versions of events.
Not at all. There's only one version of most stories. The basic message of the Bible is clear. Even HSB gets that.

And the books that were NOT added to the Canon, for whatever reason?

The Bible: Why Some Ancient Texts Were Excluded (http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/outside.stm)

How can you consider the Bible to be complete without the Gospel of Judas? And how can you consider the writings of Paul, the misogynist, to be greater than the Gospel of Mary Magdalene?

The Canon was chosen for popularity, political, and sociological reasons---NOT because some guys were more more blessed than others by God in having the wisdom to choose the right books. There are even some books that are REFERENCED in the Bible that are not in the Bible--though I can't remember the names of them offhand.

The Canon was chosen for popularity, political, and sociological reasons
The link you provided says otherwise: Christian canons emerged through a complex process in which some books were "chosen" and others were left out. A tradition of use, authority within the communities, antiquity or apostolicity, and orthodoxy were factors in deciding which books were "in" and which were "out."

Please list the books referenced in the Bible that were omitted from the canon(s). If there are such, I'm betting there's a good reason.

A list of inspired and non-inspired books mentioned in the Bible that are not part of our canon. (http://www.bible.ca/b-canon-books-mentioned-bible.htm)

Dear lord. I don't even know where to begin.

Please start a new thread so Dave will see it (and I'll alert him). Thanks.

The link you provided says otherwise: Christian canons emerged through a complex process in which some books were "chosen" and others were left out. A tradition of use, authority within the communities, antiquity or apostolicity, and orthodoxy were factors in deciding which books were "in" and which were "out."

Please list the books referenced in the Bible that were omitted from the canon(s). If there are such, I'm betting there's a good reason.

Depends really on who's bible we are talking about.

Quoted Reference:

Now on to some of the particular questions presented: First, every Catholic should have a Catholic version of the Bible. The King James Bible is the classic Protestant Bible, which was first printed in 1611 under the authority of King James I of England, the official head of the Church of England. The King James Bible follows the canon (or contents) established by Martin Luther in 1534 when he translated the Bible into German. He grouped what Catholics call "the seven deuterocanonical books" (Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Sirach, Baruch, and I & II Maccabees) of the Old Testament under the title "Apocrypha" declaring, "These are books which are not held equal to the Sacred Scriptures and yet are useful and good for reading." (Keep in mind that these seven books had been accepted by the Church as part of the official canon of Sacred Scripture even prior to the legalization of Christianity; Luther on his own initiative tampered with the canon of Sacred Scripture.)


Ref:

Recommending a Catholic Bible (http://catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0110.html)

And the books that were NOT added to the Canon, for whatever reason?

The Bible: Why Some Ancient Texts Were Excluded (http://gbgm-umc.org/umw/bible/outside.stm)

How can you consider the Bible to be complete without the Gospel of Judas? And how can you consider the writings of Paul, the misogynist, to be greater than the Gospel of Mary Magdalene?

The Canon was chosen for popularity, political, and sociological reasons---NOT because some guys were more more blessed than others by God in having the wisdom to choose the right books. There are even some books that are REFERENCED in the Bible that are not in the Bible--though I can't remember the names of them offhand.

Actually, they were chosen based on authorship. The criterion was that the book had to have been written either by an apostle, such as Paul, or a companion of an apostle, such as Mark or Luke. The two gospels you mention were rejected because their authorship couldn't be verified; in the case of Judas, he really didn't have a chance to write anything, and the Gospel of Mary Magdalene is known from style and manuscript history to be a second or third century forgery. The basic guideline for selection to be in the canon was authenticity of authorship. That's why it took so long for some books such as 2 Peter and Revelation to be accepted.

And yes, the Bible does reference some books that aren't in the canon. Paul quotes a Greek poet in Acts 17, and Jude quotes the book of Enoch, a pseudepigraphical book from the inter-testamental period that was definitely NOT written by Enoch. But that really doesn't mean anything in terms of the authority of the Bible.

HSB: The answer is somewhat complex, in my opinion. But in very simple terms (which need to be further explained at a later time perhaps) is that the Bible (we have today) was not intended to be correctly understood by simple minds. After all the author is God Himself. Who could be more mysterious than the INFINITE God Himself to our tiny little minds ? But He has in these last days opened seven seals that make it possible to understand much more accurately IF we humbly follow His rules.

Altenweg: I have to ask. If God wrote the bible so that his "people" could understand him and follow him, then why would he make it so impossible to understand? After all, he is God, he could have made the bible clear so that every "simple minded" person could understand exactly what he expects.

When I said the answer is somewhat complex, that was an understatement. From my perspective the important thing is not how much a particular individual understands about the Bible. If the main issue is my personal salvation, then I could be a new born baby with practically no understanding at all, and yet God can save me. I think we need to remember that God saves individuals, NOT groups of people. I get the distinct feeling that there's an idea that if we all could only get a consensus of the correct doctrine, then everything would be OK, and God would have to save all of us together. But that is not how He has designed His plan. In any case the conventional definition of understanding has to do with what we would call the intellect. But God is not limited to that particular definition. If you look up Solomon's request to God you'll see that he asked for an understanding "heart." The word heart as used in the Bible contains a spiritual element that transcends the merely intellectual.

Synnen - There is no possible way you researched this ON YOUR OWN and came up with those conclusions on those "gospels". I suggest you spend a little less time watching the History channel and more time paying attention to actual scholars on the subject. Just because something has the word "Gospel" in front of it, does not mean it is anything close to a serious book.

Synnen - There is no possible way you researched this ON YOUR OWN and came up with those conclusions on those "gospels". I suggest you spend a little less time watching the History channel and more time paying attention to actual scholars on the subject. Just because something has the word "Gospel" in front of it, does not mean it is anything close to a serious book.

Actually, you are wrong here. As she is Wiccan, she has had to spend many hours studying just to defend herself and her beliefs.

Synnen - There is no possible way you researched this ON YOUR OWN and came up with those conclusions on those "gospels". I suggest you spend a little less time watching the History channel and more time paying attention to actual scholars on the subject. Just because something has the word "Gospel" in front of it, does not mean it is anything close to a serious book.

Oh please. I've been studying the Bible for about 20 years now, taking classes at both universities and through local churches. I've read each book in the Bible more than once, and I'm fascinated by the history the Bible portrays.

If people want to talk further about the Bible and its history, I'd be happy to do so--but start another thread and point people to it, rather than further hijacking this one.

PS--I don't even WATCH TV. I watch probably ONE hour of television a YEAR. I don't have time, if I want to keep up with my reading and my education.

Hello Depressed in MO.

Only one book tells of the “time of the end.� That is the Bible. Its prophecies, for the most part, have their major fulfillment in the “time of the end.� Then an understanding of the prophecies would be available to truth seekers: “But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.� Dan. 12:4, AS Lack of knowledge concerning the “time of the end� leads to death. How vital, then, to have the right answers to certain questions! What is to end? When will it end? How will it end? Who will end it?

Now let me answer each one of these questions above from the Bible.

What is to end?

The end of the world does not mean the destruction of our globe and of the material creations in the sky. It means the end of Satan the Devil's wicked organization invisible and visible. Some religions are part of his organization, although they claim to be the “house of God�. For this hypocrisy they will receive the severer judgment and will be the first part of this world to end.

(Matthew 25:31-33) 31 “When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.


(2 Thessalonians 1:7-9) 7 but, to YOU who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength,

Not the literal earth but only the wicked will end.

(Psalm 104:5) 5 He has founded the earth upon its established places; It will not be made to totter to time indefinite, or forever.
Jesus himself indicated that some people will survive the end. (Matthew 24:21, 22)

Failing human governments will end. God inspired the prophet Daniel to write: “The God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite.�—Daniel 2:44.
War and pollution will end. Describing what God will do, Psalm 46:9 states: “He is making wars to cease to the extremity of the earth. The bow he breaks apart and does cut the spear in pieces; the wagons he burns in the fire.� The Bible also teaches that God will “bring to ruin those ruining the earth.�—Revelation 11:18.
Crime and injustice will end. God's Word promises: “The upright are the ones that will reside in the earth, and the blameless are the ones that will be left over in it. As regards the wicked, they will be cut off from the very earth; and as for the treacherous, they will be torn away from it.�—Proverbs 2:21, 22.
The Scriptures reveal that, when this wicked system comes to its end, those slain by God will certainly come to be from one end of the earth clear to the other end of the earth.� Jeremiah 25:33 But you do not have to be among the slain. In his Word the Bible God clearly states what kind of persons, systems and organizations will be destroyed

When Will the End Come?

“At an hour that you do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.�—Matthew 24:44.
“Keep on the watch.. . Because you know neither the day nor the hour.�—Matthew 25:13.
“It will not be late.�—Habakkuk 2:3.

Yet, if any give a time or year, day or hour do not believe them, because the Bible states: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.� Matthew 24:36

Jesus and his disciples did, however, foretell what conditions on earth would be like just before God brings the end. The end is imminent when all the following events are happening at the same time and on a global scale.
The bible indicates signs of the end but not any hour, day or year.

Sign Scripture Proof
1. World wars Matt. 24:7
2. Widespread food shortages Matt. 24:7
3. Unusual number of earthquakes Matt. 24:7
4. Sore pestilence and disease Luke 21:11
5. Persecution of Christians Luke 21:12-15
6. Many forsaking Christianity Matt. 24:12, 13
7. Formation of the League of
Nations and United Nations Rev. 13:14, 15; 17:11
8. Nations perplexed Luke 21:25
9. Increased lawlessness Matt. 24:12
10. Sleepy condition of the world
Despite the sign 1 Thess. 5:2, 6
11. Moral breakdown in public and
Private life 2 Tim. 3:1-4
12. Widespread juvenile delinquency 2 Tim. 3:2
13. People overly engaging in
Everyday affairs of life Matt. 24:37-39
14. World-wide preaching of the
Established kingdom as good news. Matt. 24:14


How will it end?

The eend of Satan and all wickedness will bring peace, joy, love, justice and good health, and everlasting life to those who serve God. No harm will come to them. Read these scriptures in your copy of the bible. They are so comforting.


▪ Peace and security will prevail because God promises to end all wars.—Psalm 46:9.
▪ There will be ample food for all.—Psalm 72:16.
▪ Health care will not be an issue because “no resident will say: 'I am sick.'�—Isaiah 33:24.
▪ Grieving will not be necessary, for “death will be no more.�—Revelation 21:4.
▪ God promises that his people will build their own houses, live in security, and “be joyful forever.�—Isaiah 65:17-24.


Who will end it?
God Almighty will!
“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.� Matthew 24:36

Thank you Hope12. This certainly gives me much hope :)

I wonder what HeadStrongBoy and M. Camping are doing in their final 9 days on earth?

NK-they (or at least HSB) believe that we've all already been pre-destined to go to Heaven or not, and nothing we do here is going to change that.

So... I'm guessing a big ol' drug binge.

So...I'm guessing a big ol' drug binge.Damn it, you made me laugh out loud in my office. :D

Bahaha. I love a job well done.

Well... back to work...

I wonder what HeadStrongBoy and M. Camping are doing in their final 9 days on earth?

I've been wondering this too, I haven't seen their name around here for a few weeks or so...

I wonder what HeadStrongBoy and M. Camping are doing in their final 9 days on earth?
It's H. Camping, as in Harold Camping. Not that we really care, though.

It's H. Camping, as in Harold Camping. Not that we really care, though.
I was actually going for the "M." as in "Mister", is that "Mr." instead? Being half french I get those mixed up sometimes.

I am going to a Beerfest on Judgement day!!

I am going to a Beerfest on Judgement day!!!!
OMG! You are so going to h-e-doublehockeysticks!

Isn't it 17-18 days not 9?

You're right, it's the 21st not the 12th - and I don't even have byslexia!

I just wanted to make sure. That extra 9 days gives me that many more beers to drink before I go meet satan.

Yeah we should all have one giant woodstock :)

No, guys. The 21st is the day of the Rapture. If you're still on earth on the 22nd, figure you missed out and are stuck here for some bad times ahead.

Judgment Day isn't until October 21st.

No, guys. The 21st is the day of the Rapture. If you're still on earth on the 22nd, figure you missed out and are stuck here for some bad times ahead.

Judgment Day isn't until October 21st.Damnit! The waiting is the hardest part.

Damnit! The waiting is the hardest part.
We here at AskMeHelpDesk will keep you entertained and current on Rapture and Judgment Day happenings.

Well won't we all feel foolish if people actually disappear on the 21st (leaving behind their nicely folded clothes), and we're left here to heathen-ize ourselves to death?

Well won't we all feel foolish if people actually disappear on the 21st (leaving behind their nicely folded clothes), and we're left here to heathen-ize ourselves to death?
We will be beset by earthquakes and tornadoes and floods and murders and economic problems.

Oooops, those are all happening already.

Whoa whoa whoa, wait. We've been having earthquakes, and tornadoes, and floods? And murder and economic problems?

When did all of this start?

I'm seriously interested in finding out what the difference between *natural* disasters and acts of an angry God is to certain religious folks. (*certain* religious folks)

I'm seriously interested in finding out what the difference between *natural* disasters and acts of an angry God is to certain religious folks. (*certain* religious folks)

Well you will now !

I read an article a while ago about the modern day Mayans on their opinion of their ancestors prophecies and they said that the dates were more to do with agriculture then anything else, not natural disasters. Mayans lived by their planting season because so many people had to be fed. Same as the Aztecs. Everyone had to eat and they where good at providing food for literally thousands of people.

Just my input, who knows. Mayans happen to be a pet project of mine since visiting Chichen Itza many years ago. It sort of 'grew' (play on words) from there.

Oh Happy Day!

Tick

Tick

I wonder what HeadStrongBoy and M. Camping are doing in their final 9 days on earth?
Well looks like others are trying to profit from all this doom saying and they are NOT American for a change ;)

BBC News - Taiwan doomsday prophet's blog sparks panic (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13253512)

I'm seriously interested in finding out what the difference between *natural* disasters and acts of , an angry God is to certain religious folks. (*certain* religious folks)
Traditionally, man has tried to appease the angry gods of storms and other weather occurrences by sacrificing everything from food to babies.

I think most Christians believe God created Mother Nature and passively allows her to function as she wills. Of course, if man messes with her, building homes and cities in flood plains and in Tornado Alley, situating nuclear reactors on faults, burning jungles and rain forests, deforesting mountains, etc. isn't it really his own fault if there are catastrophes?

(no disrespect to anyone)

Hurricane Katrina was God's test run...

Hurricane Katrina was God's test run...
God caused that to happen, caused all those deaths and all that destruction?

WG- I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic? I was kidding.

I do admit it shouldn't be something we joke... but it was to prove somewhat of a point.

WG- I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic? I was kidding.

I do admit it shouldn't be something we joke... but it was to prove somewhat of a point.
Not sure what your point was. I personally was horrified at the notion.

It's a good thing to think about, I would say.

To say that God actually did it when it hits so close to home (i.e. when it's already happened and effected so many), it paints those assertions in a very serious light.

Not sure what your point was. I personally was horrified at the notion.

My point was the ease of speculation and the facts behind these specualtions.

Someone had asked about the natural disasters as of late and if they were in fact natural or God created. We could speculate all day but no one knows... that was my point!

Wondergirl,

Do you think that just maybe mans misuse of money and missuse of earths natural forces could have caused such catastropies? People were waned to get theit levy's fixed and strengthened before Katrina. Ten years before! The government officials ignored those warnings also.

If you see a disaster and are warned to prepare for it, and that warning is ignored, that is not God's fault but it is selfish men who rather pocket the money the dos what is right for all persons. God is a loving God 'not one that DISTROYS the good with the wicked. You call the earth sources "mother nature", I call it God's creations. If man abuses those God given sources, That is not God's fault, but wicked people who abuse those souces for personal gan are at blame. God does not need to test us, he knows what each of us are in our hearts.

Peace, Hope12

We will be beset by earthquakes and tornadoes and floods and murders and economic problems.

Oooops, those are all happening already.

Right on! You go, girl.

Hope12's Comment:
Do you think that just maybe mans misuse of earths natural forces could have caused such catastropies?

That is EXACTLY what I said! God's not testing us. Nature has been insulted and is getting back at us.

Hope12's Comment:
Do you think that just maybe mans misuse of earths natural forces could have caused such catastropies?

That is EXACTLY what I said! God's not testing us. Nature has been insulted and is getting back at us.

More precisely, all our actions have consequences.

"nature is beng insulted"? Do you think the Earth is alive and cares a damn? Will the trees fight back when you cut them down? This is not some place of fantasy but fact. God gave us the Earth to rule over and subdue, we are doing that, however imperfectly, this places us within God's will.

Please stop this peusdo religious nonsense

"nature is beng insulted"?
That's a figure of speech. If man cuts down the Amazon jungles, bad things will result.

do you think the Earth is alive and cares a damn? Will the trees fight back when you cut them down?
No, but the bare earth will.

God gave us the Earth to rule over and subdue, we are doing that, however imperfectly, this places us within God's will.
He also gave man a brain to rule the earth and subdue it with intelligence.

That's a figure of speech. If man cuts down the Amazon jungles, bad things will result.

No, but the bare earth will.

He also gave man a brain to rule the earth and subdue it with intelligence.

The issue isn't whether man causes impacts he has been doing that for eons, whether digging in the Earth, moving rivers, or burning but whether what is happening is God's vengeance. Man will suffer the consequences of his actions but to wrap this up in some religious jargon and attribute spiritual significance to it is pure nonsense. The intelligence of man has outstripped his abilities to think of the consequences first because greed has taken over, what we see are the consequences of an avaricious nature and greed typified by a society that consumes more and more for the sake of it. Man needs to get back to the simplicity God provided, we truly live in the age of paradise lost

"nature is beng insulted"? do you think the Earth is alive and cares a damn? Will the trees fight back when you cut them down? This is not some place of fantasy but fact. God gave us the Earth to rule over and subdue, we are doing that, however imperfectly, this places us within God's will.

Please stop this peusdo religious nonsense

Ever hear of personification or anthropomorphization? Lighten up, friend.

................whether what is happening is God's vengence................... Man will suffer the consequences of his actions but to wrap this up in some religious jargon and attribute spiritual significance to it is pure nonsense. ..... Man needs to get back to the simplicity God provided, we truely live in the age of paradise lost

Religious jargon?

Indeed.

Did you read what you wrote?

Religious jargon?

Indeed.

Did you read what you wrote?

Of course I read what I wrote and most of my response is directed at Hope12 who insists on quoting the outpourings of watchtower but suggesting nature is animate is a form of religion

of course I read what I wrote and most of my response is directed at Hope12 who insists on quoting the outpourings of watchtower but suggesting nature is animate is a form of religion

OK

I haven't read all the posts but would like to comment on natural disasters.

Since the fall of man back in the garden of Eden the earth has experienced natural disasters. In fact, it is all part of the curse.

In Mathew 24, the Lord explained that things would only get worse. As a Christian, I believe him. BUT there IS a day coming when the Lord Jesus will set things right. During his 1000 year reign, there will be no natural disasters. The earth will be like the Lord originally wanted it to be. The Lion shall lie down with the lamb. But until then, expect it to get worse.
It doesn't matter if mankind had taken great care of this earth and everyone had gone "green" 6000 years ago. It is what it is and there is no stopping it.

To the OP:

There is always going to be some person exclaiming the end of the world. The Bible was written so that we can understand certain events and timelines. I believe there is a spiritual clock and it IS ticking. But GOD says no one knows the day or the hour. Therefore, Mr. Camp and HB do NOT have a clue of an exact date of anything. Sadly they have no answers either. They can give you NO assurance of salvation or an exact way to the Father. I find it ironic they have mathematically pinpointed a date of doom... but can't understand a simple Gospel. The Bible says WHOsoever shall calll upon the name of the Lord will be saved. But not according to them. Well... The Bible says let God be true and every man a liar.

We should all stop listening to men who put a date on something that God said no one knew. It is NOT biblical.

Definitely Wondergirl! Agree man is destroying the earth and life on it, not God. Those destroying the earth are the first ones to blame God. God would never kill innocent men, women, and children that he loves enough to allow his son to die for us so we can live. Only wicked man can do such a thing.
Peace,
Hope12

God would never kill innocent men, women, and children Sure he does:
Dwindling In Unbelief: How many has God killed? (Complete list and estimated total) (http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html)

Boy, I'd love to get into technicalities, here.

I mean, it's considered negligent homocide if you LET someone die when you could save them--especially if you have a responsibility to try to save them, as in a parent over a child, or a child care provider.

So... since god is the "Father", doesn't have have a responsibility to save the lives of his children? If he DOES, wouldn't he be guilty of at least negligent homocide for letting innocent people die when he has the power of miracles to save them?

Doesn't that mean that God DOES let innocent people die?

Hello NeedKarma,

Thanks for the reading material you suggested.

Sure he does:
Dwindling In Unbelief: How many has God killed? (Complete list and estimated total)

However, when one has true faith and confidence in the God of the Universe, they do not need to read mans estimates of what they think. Those who estimate such things are just imperfect men. I know that the creator of such wonderful things as the human body, would never destroy it in such an evil ways.

Peace,
Hope12

I know that the creator of such wonderful things as the human body, would never destroy it in such an evil ways.But he did and you're simply choosing to ignore that part.

If it's all the same to everyone here, I'm going to believe in a God (a first source and center, rather), while also knowing full well that we all run the risk of death by natural disaster, car wreck, heart attack, etc, every day. And that's just life. No God about it. And yes, when we tinker with natural habitats, we run a greater risk of death by natural disaster, as posters have pointed out.

I believe I'm a part of something MUCH bigger than myself, and I am grateful to have been included in it. I ponder my place often, and I attempt to converse with that which created me (because I feel it in my soul that that thing which created me is listening somehow). My mind and heart both have issues subscribing to any single establishment of religion, but that doesn't mean I disrespect them or those who do subscribe to them.

I believe, but I can't look at the bible as total truth. Nor any other book I believe to have been scribed by man.

Anyway, I do love reading about where others come from when they discuss their faith. I love how much we all come into our own as we grow and experience life. It would be awesome if we could all just accept that we got there in our individual ways-and that's OK.

*off the soapbox*

It would be awesome if we could all just accept that we got there in our individual ways-and that's OK.http://www.trade2win.com/boards/images/icons_new/icon14.gif

Hello NeedKarma,

Thanks for the reading material you suggested.


However, when one has true faith and confidence in the God of the Universe, they do not need to read mans estimates of what they think. Those who estimate such things are just imperfect men. I know that the creator of such wonderful things as the human body, would never destroy it in such an evil ways.

peace,
Hope12

Um, do the words "Sodom" and "Gomorrah" ring any bells? God has destroyed human bodies in a multitude of ways. The real question is, were those people really "innocent"? By whose standards? How is their innocence (or lack thereof) determined? That's one of the places where faith comes in: belief and confidence that, even when God does something like raining fire on two whole cities, he knows what he's doing and has good reasons for doing so.

Natural disasters like the recent tsunami are another matter. Jesus said the Father makes the rain fall on the just and the unjust alike. Why? Because he's built a world that works according to certain laws of physics. That means, among other things, that sometimes *beep* happens. There's no blame to be assigned, either to God or anybody else. Can we help natural disasters along by messing up our environment? Sure. But some things happen regardless. Hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, forest fires and such have been happening for as long as the planet has been around, as far as we can tell. The best we can do is try not to be in their path. It's how the world runs.

Boy, I'd love to get into technicalities, here.

I mean, it's considered negligent homocide if you LET someone die when you could save them--especially if you have a responsibility to try to save them, as in a parent over a child, or a child care provider.

So...since god is the "Father", doesn't have have a responsibility to save the lives of his children? If he DOES, wouldn't he be guilty of at least negligent homocide for letting innocent people die when he has the power of miracles to save them?

Doesn't that mean that God DOES let innocent people die?

Death was never part of God's plan. He meant for mankind to live with him and in fellowship with him forever. Adam sinned. This caused the curse on the earth and mankind. However because God loves man, he sent his son to redeem us back. God is HOLY, He is soveriegn. And he gives mankind freewill. You can accept it or reject it. Regardless, the bible says something like... shall not the judge of the earth do right. I'm satisfied he will always do right and judge right. But then, I am a woman of faith. I believe God. :)

Of course there another to way to live your life and that is without any god of any sort. It seems to work well for a lot of people!

Of course there another to way to live your life and that is without any god of any sort. It seems to work well for a lot of people!
Not for me :), I like the romance of not knowing.

And the mystery of where I'm going.

But, I have to hand it to Atheists. At least they KNOW where they came from and where they're going! Nothing to argue about in that case.

So because Adam listened to his wife instead of his father, he doomed the rest of us forever and ever, amen?

And didn't GOD make that decision, even then, to punish Adam? Therefore, isn't GOD responsible for all the death in the world, because he doesn't prevent it?

Look, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone's faith. What I'm trying to point out is that my arguments are the same kind of arguments that people use to justify things because "That's what the Bible says".

I'm just using my logic on "what the Bible says" here.

The real question is, were those people really "innocent"?

I would say the children killed in their thousands (millions?) in the Old Testament were innocent.

So...since god is the "Father", doesn't have have a responsibility to save the lives of his children? If he DOES, wouldn't he be guilty of at least negligent homocide for letting innocent people die when he has the power of miracles to save them?
Every day God may somehow prevent the deaths and serious injuries of myriads of people. We just don't know; there's no scorecard.

When air traffic controllers fall asleep, why aren't there more fatal plane crashes? With all the people driving around and texting (even when it's against the law), why aren't there more car accidents? When babies and children fall out of windows in apartment buildings (watch for news stories this summer), why aren't those kids killed? (Sometimes they aren't even hurt!) When many people set off 4th of July fire works, legally and illegally, why aren't there more accidents and maiming? While driving all these years, I've had my share of near misses by other drivers on the roads. You have too. Why weren't we hurt or killed in an accident?

Luck? Special skills? Guardian angels? God?

Every day God may somehow prevent the deaths and serious injuries of myriads of people. We just don't know; there's no scorecard.

When air traffic controllers fall asleep, why aren't there more fatal plane crashes? With all the people driving around and texting (even when it's against the law), why aren't there more car accidents? When babies and children fall out of windows in apartment buildings (watch for news stories this summer), why aren't those kids killed? (Sometimes they aren't even hurt!) When many people set off 4th of July fire works, legally and illegally, why aren't there more accidents and maiming? While driving all these years, I've had my share of near misses by other drivers on the roads. You have too. Why weren't we hurt or killed in an accident?

Luck? Special skills? Guardian angels? God?

Very nice, wondergirl, but how about those who WERE killed or maimed or injured?

Therefore, isn't GOD responsible for all the death in the world, because he doesn't prevent it?
Parents educate and train their children, and thereby give them both roots and wings -- "wings" meaning the freedom to make their own choices. If Johnny makes a bad choice, should he get off scot free? Should his parents be blamed for the choice he made? Should Johnny endure the consequences of his choice?

Parents educate and train their children, and thereby give them both roots and wings -- "wings" meaning the freedom to make their own choices. If Johnny makes a bad choice, should he get off scot free? Should his parents be blamed for the choice he made? Should Johnny endure the consequences of his choice?

When God destroyed the world (the flood) or the Malachites or those other groups, who was making the choices then?

Very nice, wondergirl, but how about those who WERE killed or maimed or injured?
Someone had a choice to text or to fall asleep or to rob a 7-11. We have no guarantees in this life. We're in this together, to help each other. After the Indonesian tsunami, someone had said, "Where is God?" The best answer to that was, "Where are you? What are YOU doing to help these people?"

My point was that instead of damning God for allowing innocents to be killed, it might be more productive to look at it from the angle of "how many might He actually be saving?" And how many are we helping?

When God destroyed the world (the flood) or the Malachites or those other groups, who was making the choices then?
Those same people made the choice. They had been warned to clean up their act.

Those same people made the choice. They had been warned to clean up their act.

The children were warned? The babies not yet born? The lame and the halt?

The children were warned? The babies not yet born? The lame and the halt?
Collective/corporate responsibility

collective/corporate responsibility

When did you become a Fascist?

From Wikipedia --

Collective responsibility is a concept or doctrine, according to which individuals are to be held responsible for other people's actions by tolerating, ignoring, or harboring them, without actively collaborating in these actions.

You were never held hostage by a teacher who didn't know which student had done the misdeed?

from Wikipedia --

Collective responsibility is a concept or doctrine, according to which individuals are to be held responsible for other people's actions by tolerating, ignoring, or harboring them, without actively collaborating in these actions.

You were never held hostage by a teacher who didn't know which student had done the misdeed?

My teacher wasn't God.

So because Adam listened to his wife instead of his father, he doomed the rest of us forever and ever, amen?

And didn't GOD make that decision, even then, to punish Adam? Therefore, isn't GOD responsible for all the death in the world, because he doesn't prevent it?

Look, I'm not trying to disrespect anyone's faith. What I'm trying to point out is that my arguments are the same kind of arguments that people use to justify things because "That's what the Bible says".

I'm just using my logic on "what the Bible says" here.

I'm not feeling like you are disrepecting my faith. I think it is good to discuss things... won't always come to a conclusion but still good.

Eve was deceived, Adam wasn't, he did it knowing it was wrong. Seems like a minor sin if you compare it to mine but YES. God is a Holy God. We don't even understand what that means but he can't and won't overlook sin.

My teacher wasn't God.
Nor was he a Fascist.

/shrug

I think that every single day, every single thing that happens to us happens either because we need to either learn something from it, or we're reaping the consequences of our own actions--or both.

I can't believe in a god that punishes inequally. Rules are rules--and if you can't follow them, you SHOULD gain the consequences of your actions. I just don't happen to think that "the consequences" include a punishment like Hell. We make our own hell here on earth, and we cage ourselves in it according to our own failings and guilt.

[QUOTE=Wondergirl;2792695]Nor was he a Fascist.[/QUOTE

You're drifting again. Get back to the point.

We make our own hell here on earth, and we cage ourselves in it according to our own failings and guilt.
I totally agree. I used to make my kids come up with their own punishments when they did A Bad Thing. They thought of worse things than I ever would have.

/shrug

I think that every single day, every single thing that happens to us happens either because we need to either learn something from it, or we're reaping the consequences of our own actions--or both.

I can't believe in a god that punishes inequally. Rules are rules--and if you can't follow them, you SHOULD gain the consequences of your actions. I just don't happen to think that "the consequences" include a punishment like Hell. We make our own hell here on earth, and we cage ourselves in it according to our own failings and guilt.

Well, I believe He gave His son to us and Jesus took all the punishment of everyone upon himself so that we don't ever have to experience any of it. He took all our guilt, failings and shame too. In fact, if we are living in a "hell of our making"... HE is more than happy to restore our lives. Jesus said he came that we may have life and MORE abundently and whosoever will may come... sounds pretty darn equal to me. I see it as a win win... both for living here and in eternity.

Again, the problem with human beings is we don't see our sin as being an afront to a Holy God. We figure we aren't all THAT bad and we see the "good" that we do as enough to cover the bad. God says otherwise. But again... that is faith. Many people believe as you do Synn.

WG,

you don't believe in hell? Interesting.. didn't know that.

I totally agree. I used to make my kids come up with their own punishments when they did A Bad Thing. They thought of worse things than I ever would have.

That's EXACTLY how my dad raised us! And he also said that we punished ourselves worse than he would have.

I intend to utilize the same method when I raise children someday :)

Again, the problem with human beings is we don't see our sin as being an afront to a Holy God. We figure we aren't all THAT bad and we see the "good" that we do as enough to cover the bad. I think you generalize here to rationalize your faith. There are no less bad things done by Christians as are done by non-Christians. People who do bad things are punished by the society they live in. I don't think anyone does a plus/minus calculation to rationalize their bad things.

I think you generalize here to rationalize your faith. There are no less bad things done by Christians as are done by non-Christians. People who do bad things are punished by the society they live in. I don;t think anyone does a plus/minus calculation to rationalize their bad things.

I agree, and I think the larger point in your post is how people rationalize faith. It's impossible not to. Or, at least, treat faith in a "meta-rational" way.

I'm not quick to simply discard the notion of faith because it doesn't meet logical standards.

As the great man said, There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

I think you generalize here to rationalize your faith. There are no less bad things done by Christians as are done by non-Christians. People who do bad things are punished by the society they live in. I don;t think anyone does a plus/minus calculation to rationalize their bad things.

? I agree. Sin is sin.. I sin as a Christian and tend to think it isn't THAT bad. My statement has nothing to do with whether someone is a Christian or NOT. It is about God and how he views sin and what he did about it. Of course if you don't believe God exsists that is another story.

I'm not quick to simply discard the notion of faith because it doesn't meet logical standards. I wasn't applying logical standards per se. If someone needs a book to keep them on the straight and narrow then read on I say! But not everyone has this requirement - that's basically my point.

NK,

Christianity isn't about being kept on the striaght and narrow. It is about GRACE. It is about me not being able to keep the law of God and Jesus did it for me so I could be perfect in the eyes of God. PERFECT.. me! Are you gagging yet. I know how you like me and all.. ha ha.. but that is what Christianity is about. And sorry to get off thread.

I wasn't applying logical standards per se. If someone needs a book to keep them on the straight and narrow then read on I say! But not everyone has this requirement - that's basically my point.

Ok, I read something into your post that wasn't there.

But don't we all read books, in one sense or another, to keep us on the straight and narrow? The"book" of our parents as we grow up?

But, I may be quibbling over semantics. We learn about life from many sources.

Hey all-I like these kinds of debates as much as the next person, but I think we need to stop going off track so much. This thread is about May 21st, and that date is soon approaching. We hijacked it and turned it into something totally different.

I'd really like this thread to still be in tact on that date and the following dates. I know it's not MY thread-but I just thought I'd throw that out there.

We could start another thread to continue this current train of thought if we wanted to.

Wow, this thread has really gone off track. Why don't we try to get it back to the original meaning before the big BenHammer closes it. I'd like to have it open when HSB has to come eat crow on May 22. :p

And shall we delete the post on May 22 ? * LOL*

And shall we delete the post on May 22 ? * LOL*

No need. It'll delete itself in the earthquake.

Wait at least until May 23 remember the international date line it might be late

Well times ticking on so I'd though I'd add this little snippet

CATS to be saved by BLASPHEMERS after the RAPTURE ? The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/17/judgment_day/)

Well times ticking on so I'd though I'd add this little snippet

CATS to be saved by BLASPHEMERS after the RAPTURE ? The Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/17/judgment_day/)
I'm not planning to be raptured, but I have five cats, Ben. I could add your crew to mine for a small fee.

I don't have cats!

What does it say about bunnies, dogs, birds and fish? Actually, they can have the fish. Then I'll finally be rid of them. ;)

Oh crap, was that out loud? :eek:

I don't have cats!

What does it say about bunnies, dogs, birds and fish? Actually, they can have the fish. Then I'll finally be rid of them. ;)

Oh crap, was that out loud? :eek:
You're going to get raptured?

Apparently, people are selling all their possessions, cashing in pensions, etc. A news commentator mentioned one of the faithful is expecting a baby in early June, but he didn't know what she was planning to do about that. I hope she doesn't do something stupid.

No, I won't get raptured, I'm just wondering if my animals will. After all, they're pure and innocent. Well, maybe not Chewy. He dug a hole in the yard. That's far from innocent. ;)

No, I won't get raptured, I'm just wondering if my animals will. After all, they're pure and innocent. Well, maybe not Chewy. He dug a hole in the yard. That's far from innocent. ;)
No, God has has a different plan for the animals. I'm in that plan too.

The final countdown has begun. Ah well maybe not the final countdown

No, I won't get raptured, I'm just wondering if my animals will. After all, they're pure and innocent. Well, maybe not Chewy. He dug a hole in the yard. That's far from innocent. ;)

Reminds me of a Dennis the Menace comic I saw once. Dennis is looking at his dog Ruff and telling Joey, "Dogs don't have to go to church because they're already good."

Works for me!

I still say that I refuse to believe that any just God would make me wait 10 years to get pregnant, then schedule the Rapture before I give birth.

Though the hubby was laughing at me the other day--I'm due 4 days after the Rapture date of 10/21. He says that the birth of our child is probably what's going to cause it all.

So... I can't remember at this point if I'm giving birth to Christ reborn or to the Anti-christ if that's the case. I need more coffee before I can figure that out.

I still say that I refuse to believe that any just God would make me wait 10 years to get pregnant
That wasn't God's fault.

I'm due 4 days after the Rapture date of 10/21.
NO, Synn.The Rapture date is May 21st; the Judgment Day date is October 21st. Keep up!!

See?

I TOLD you I needed more coffee!

(The lack of coffee during this pregnancy is seriously depleting my brain cells. I actually KNEW that--and completely screwed it up in my post. Can I just skip work and go back to bed?)

See?

I TOLD you I needed more coffee!!

(The lack of coffee during this pregnancy is seriously depleting my brain cells. I actually KNEW that--and completely screwed it up in my post. Can I just skip work and go back to bed?)
Well, we know you (and me and Alty and probably J9) won't get raptured. If on that day you hear *swoosh* and people near you suddenly disappear, we're in trouble. If you don't hear anything, continue dreaming of steaming cups of freshly brewed coffee.

Since I had started this thread, I pretty much don't believe it so much anymore-however, I still can't help those little "what-if" thoughts that flow through my brain as time gets nearer. My oldest daughter is going to a concert that day, I'd hate to scare myself so much as to tell her she can't go because we all need to be together just in case. She is only 13, and totally believes it all to be BS. She's like I don't care if it's the last day mom, at least I'll be happy at the (I think it's Tim McGraw) concert!. I think I'll be somewhat of a nervous wreck that day... At least until midnight hits... Isn't it supposed to happen like around 6:00? Does anyone know if that 6:00 is central/Easter/Western time zone??

Since I had started this thread, I pretty much don't believe it so much anymore-however, I still can't help those little "what-if" thoughts that flow through my brain as time gets nearer.
It won't happen. No what-ifs. I hope your daughter enjoys the concert!!

I'll look forward to a happy post from you on the 22nd.

Hello D:

The worst part of this LIE is the effect it has on nice people like you.

excon

The worst part of this LIE is the effect it has on nice people like you.
You are so right. I heard that Camping followers are selling everything they own and cashing in their investments.

Thanks guys! I am looking forward to starting the "Ahhhh, we made it! " post on the 22nd :)...

You are so right. I heard that Camping followers are selling everything they own and cashing in their investments.

Even worse, I hear they are just leaving it all behind, even their families!

Thanks guys! I am looking forward to starting the "Ahhhh, we made it! " post on the 22nd :)...
Good for you! I'll be up early and watching for it!

You know what I think is hilarious?

If God is the one I believe in (since all gods are one god, and all goddesses one goddess--we just call them by different names), it won't matter if I've paid my lip service to the Christian church. I've lived my life as a good human being and have tried to give more love than I get. If loving others and doing what I can to take care of them--emotionally, physically, spiritually--is NOT what gets you into heaven, and instead it is some religious dogma crap--well, I don't want to be there anyway.

I never got why a loving god needs to be worshipped so much. The ego!

I never got why a loving god needs to be worshipped so much. The ego!

I really kind of think that Piers Anthony got it right in the Incarnations of Immortality books.

I really kind of think that Piers Anthony got it right in the Incarnations of Immortality books.I'll look those up, thanks. :)

Well the 21st has dawned and I'm still here, not sure what that means yet. I liked Michael Youseff's suggestion that the dill who proposed this donated all his money. Put your money where your mouth is, obviously he didn't do it

well the 21st has dawned and I'm still here, not sure what that means yet. I liked Michael Youseff's suggestion that the dill who proposed this donated all his money. Put your money where your mouth is, obviously he didn't do it
Someone I know called Camping's office today and got the answering machine that said Mr. Camping is out of the office today, but will be back on Monday.

Someone I know called Camping's office today and got the answering machine that said Mr. Camping is out of the office today, but will be back on Monday.

That is just too funny for words.

that is just too funny for words.


greenie!!!

I understand it is the 21st at 6pm Eastern Standard Time.
About 19 hours to go at this point

My boss at work said Rapture was not a valid reason for missing work.

OK so where is HSB to admit to the fallacy of Camping's teachings?

I understand it is the 21st at 6pm Eastern Standard Time.
No, it will be at 6 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time. Don't be late! We'll watch for you.

No, it will be at 6 p.m. Pacific Daylight Time. Don't be late! We'll watch for you.

It is 6pm at each time zone - sort of a rolling rapture.

Hello again,

I live on the west coast. Ain't nothing happening here... Wait a minute.. I hear something. Hey, you over there... STOP... OMG>>> Argghhhhhhh!

Exc...

The idiot also said that it was supposed to happen back in 1994... and we are still here.

Perhaps HIS world should end, OR pick up another hobby.

... just sayin'

Well I have Crow marinading nicely.
I wonder if I should do any sides or bread to go with it.

I understand it is the 21st at 6pm Eastern Standard Time.
about 19 hours to go at this point

My boss at work said Rapture was not a valid reason for missing work.

How can you calculate that? Time in the US has no relevance to biblical events, tell your boss you will just go when the time comes. Just as it is impossible to calculate from the time of Christ's death or birth because neither are known with any accuracy

how can you calculate that? Time in the US has no relevance to biblical events, tell your boss you will just go when the time comes. Just as it is impossible to calculate from the time of Christ's death or birth because neither are known with any accuracy
What time is it where you are, 'Clete?

What time is it where you are, 'Clete?

Hi Wondergirl,

I can answer that. By the time you read this it will be 8 pm. Clete and I are not that far from each other.

Tut

Well I'm still here.

Either there was no rapture or I'm a heathen. I guess that means it's time to party!

I'll wait for tomorrow morning EST to serve the crow.

Well I have Crow marinading nicely.
I wonder if I should do any sides or bread to go with it.

I sincerely doubt the one that preached this on AMHD won't be back to have crow. I can't believe anyone with any sense whatsoever would fall for this stuff. It is embarrassing as a Christian. When this story made the news last night and they called the followers of Camp "Christian" I cringed. It makes Christianity look ridiculous. Geeeze. I'm shaking my head.

I sincerely doubt the one that preached this on AMHD won't be back to have crow. I can't believe anyone with any sense whatsoever would fall for this stuff. It is embarassing as a Christian. When this story made the news last night and they called the followers of Camp "Christian" I cringed. It makes Christianity look ridiculous. Geeeze. I'm shaking my head.

Ah-HA!

Thank you--you have now given me a perfect example to use when people stereotype ALL pagans to be like the ones they show on TV. I can now tell them that it's EXACTLY like stereotyping ALL Christians to be like Camping.

In either case, both my hubby and I are still here, but it's only 11 AM here.

And Chuck--I told my student workers that I expected them both to be at work on Monday, and that Rapture wasn't an excuse. I'd come drag their butts back down from Heaven if I had to.

Camping's Family Radio site will not load.

Hello,


I guess this Mr. Camping things he knows more the Jesus himself.

Notice the words of the bible book of Mark 13: 32-37:
32 “Concerning that day or the hour nobody knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but the Father. 33 Keep looking, keep awake, for YOU do not know when the appointed time is. 34 It is like a man traveling abroad that left his house and gave the authority to his slaves, to each one his work, and commanded the doorkeeper to keep on the watch. 35 Therefore keep on the watch, for YOU do not know when the master of the house is coming, whether late in the day or at midnight or at cockcrowing or early in the morning; 36 in order that when he arrives suddenly, he does not find YOU sleeping. 37 But what I say to YOU I say to all, Keep on the watch.�

Jesus told his disciples to keep on the watch because he being the master, doesn't even know. Also in 2 Peter 3:10 we are told: “10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.'

Does a thief tell the home owner when they will rob them? Of course no, also God's timetable is different then ours. 2 Peter 3:8 8But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.� Why would God, let us know and not his son Jesus? God doesn't want Hypocrites to serve him for a time, day or hour. They do what they want to and a few months, days or hours because the don't want to suffer, would all of sudden turn to him. If we live our life each day with love for God and mankind, we would not need to know a time.

Peace to all and tomorrow will come,
Hope12

Mr, Camping does what all denominations do - pick what's important in the bible. This isn't news.

Mr, Camping does what all denominations do - pick and choose what's important in the bible. Hello NK:

And, make quite a few millions (http://www.richestbillionaires.com/2011/05/harold-camping-net-worth-2011.html)along the way.

excon

Mr, Camping does what all denominations do - pick and choose what's important in the bible. This isn't news.
No, I don't think denominations pick so much as interpret the same passages differently.

Camping did even more than that -- he read stuff into it that wasn't there.

And Chuck--I told my student workers that I expected them both to be at work on Monday, and that Rapture wasn't an excuse. I'd come drag their butts back down from Heaven if I had to.

I want a ringside seat for that!!

Perhaps an earthquake took it?

Ummm... I'm still here

Wow, heaven is really great, we even have internet and room service, ( no wait, I am just traveling at the Hilton today)
Oh well, guess that voice in the elevator was not god after all.

Uh Oh:
Iceland's Meteorological Office confirmed that an eruption had begun at the Grimsvotn volcano, accompanied by a series of small earthquakes.

Scientists: Iceland's Grimsvotn volcano erupting - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/eu_iceland_volcano)

<eg>

Ah crap, here we go, this is significant - there is hardly ever any seismic activity in Iceland!! 11! 11

Well, I'm still here. I guess I'm not worthy. :)

Well, I'm still here. I guess I'm not worthy. :)
But you're already at the Final Destination. You've been worthy all your life and didn't realize it.

I'm still here too!

Ditto ah well that was an apocolypse, seen one seen them all beautiful weather though

I was scuba diving when the time hit here. Either I'm not one of the elect, or God can't grab people from underwater.

Good thing the small print offers no returns ;)

Oh yeah morning all, I guess I'll be cooking some crow later on..

Just a little snippet for y'all: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/22/rapture-harold-camping-end-world


World doesn't end: California prophet had no Plan B

Harold Camping spent millions of dollars telling the nations it was the end of days; now his followers may need counselling

According to that article Camping received and spent $100 million on his campaign proclaiming the end of the world. Wow. People actually gave this guy $100 million!

Maybe those people that send spam asking you to help them take $10 million out of their country and they'll split it with you, just send $250, aren't so out of their minds. It seems that there are plenty of people that will fall for it.

Attn... Attn... Attn...

Excon has been ruptured.

Ex

100 million??

The world is ending August 12th 2011, send me your money

First to Depressed,
I hope you feel better now!

Second to HeadStrongBoy,
So, are you going to man up and admit that all your (or Camping's) scripture quotes and math were, at best the delusions of a fool and at worst, a scam to get money from his followers?


World doesn't end: California prophet had no Plan B

Harold Camping spent millions of dollars telling the nations it was the end of days; now his followers may need counselling


This brings up an interesting point. I wonder if all those fools who gave Camping money or spent money based on his prediction can mount a class action suit against him. The man has a net worth in 9 figures!