The BBC just showed live pictures of the Tsunami surge. I'll be amazed if there is not a considerable loss of life.

... and they still expect the surge to hit other shorelines around the pacific basin that have not been reached yet.

BBC News - Tsunami hits north-eastern Japan after massive quake (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12709598)

Just heard about this... what is going on with the Earth, seriously??

Good morning all. I cannot begin to imagine what these people went through. The aerial footage shot of the Tsunami "eating" the land was unbelievable. According to the weatherman, due to the ripple effect they are expecting Eastern Australia to feel it as well as the western shores of North & South American. It is supposed to hit the U.S. shore in less than 3 hours. They don't expect it to be anywhere near as damaging as it was to Japan but Hawaii may be adversly effected.

I do wonder about all the global warming nay sayers. Something is seriously going on with the Earth and it seems to be growing increasingly worse.

Hate for this post to be hijacked like this.. but in response to JAL .

Nay sayers... hmmm .I guess that is a polite way of saying 'denier'.

I checked the list ,and yes earthquakes and tsunamis have been blamed on global warming before .
Global Warming Ate My Homework: 100 Things Blamed on Global Warming | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News. (http://blog.heritage.org/2009/11/17/global-warming-ate-my-homework-100-things-blamed-on-global-warming/)

Can you demonstrate the relationship between plate tectonics and climate change ?

Maybe Michael Mann can concoct one for you.

Cuccinelli has filed multiple civil investigative demands to review Mann's e-mails and documents. The attorney general is accusing Mann of using manipulated or deceitful data pertaining to climate change to obtain taxpayer-funded research grants, and hopes to acquire documents that will enable him to prosecute Mann under the Virginia Fraud Against Taxpayers Act
http://www.cavalierdaily.com/2011/02/24/assembly-upholds-right-to-subpoena/

True science will tell you that the Ring of Fire is caused by naturally occurring shifting on the plates.Humans adapt .

These germs of disease have taken toll of humanity since the beginning of things–taken toll of our prehuman ancestors since life began here. But by virtue of this natural selection of our kind we have developed resisting power; to no germs do we succumb without a struggle, and to many–those that cause putrefaction in dead matter, for instance–our living frames are altogether immune. ....By the toll of a billion deaths man has bought his birthright of the earth..(HG Wells )

Residents near Fukushima nuclear power plant are being evacuated .I think they are shutting them all down as a precaution.

But there is one that has reportedly caught fire.
http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwide/asia-pacific/fire-break-out-at-nuclear-power-plant-after-japanese-quake

As of this second, the tsunami clock is down to about 5 minutes for Japan. Many people are reportedly planning to ride it out in the bar. I kid you not.

Hello:

Glad I live on a hill.

excon

Hello again,

Another one happened in Hawaii. The Earth is cracking.

excon

Hello:

Glad I live on a hill.

excon

Me too... but I had to break out the kayak this morning to get to work.

And areas near the new madrid fault have been acting up as well.

Hello again:

Tsunami is going to hit here in an hour. J, quick, call Al Gore.

excon

Hello again:

Tsunami is gonna hit here in an hour. J, quick, call Al Gore.

excon

Al must be busy in his "green" house in Nashville. He's not picking up the phone.

I wonder if global warming had anything to do with the nasty wildfires (http://amarillo.com/news/latest-news/2011-02-28/about-110000-acres-burn-west-texas-wildfires) here two weeks ago.

Al Gore is out flying around in his jet creating more of his "Global Warming"

I wonder if global warming had anything to do with the nasty wildfires (http://amarillo.com/news/latest-news/2011-02-28/about-110000-acres-burn-west-texas-wildfires) here two weeks ago.

Or all that snow everyone has gotten. If it gets any warmer Florida is going to need snowplows.

Incidentally... on topic. THe reported numbers are still low but climbing. I think its going to take some time before they figure out how many are missing... even in rough numbers. Got to be a lot of debris etc to sort through just from the few videos I've seen thus far this morning.

8.9... thats a HUGE f-ing quake by anyone's standards.

Hello again,

Fracking (http://www.gaslandthemovie.com/whats-fracking) is causing the fricking earthquakes.

excon

The subduction of continental plates has nothing at all to do with it?

I think we had earthquakes for longer than people have been self aware on this planet. PARTICULARLY in that region of the world. After all, Hawaii doesn't exist because of oil and gas companies actions.

Incidentally... its wreaked havoc with the telecom stuff in the region... so if I end up scarce on the site for the next few days... its related to that.

An incrediable thing. It demonstrates just how fragile our existence is.

That nuke plant is becoming a thing of major concern .

Nuke Plant Crisis Worsens as Radiation Levels Rise - Ecocentric - TIME.com (http://ecocentric.blogs.time.com/2011/03/11/radioactive-steam-released-from-stricken-japanese-nuke-plant/)

That nuke plant is becoming a thing of major concern Hello again, tom:

Since FOX is the only news available on the weekends, I'm forced to watch Neil Cavuto spin the news... He's talking about how we should go ahead with nuclear power here in spite of what happened in Japan.. Whaaaa??

Is he paying attention?? Of ALL the country's that have nuclear power, Japan built their reactors to withstand BIG earthquakes... As it turns out, they DON'T. Let me say that again, THEY DON'T!!

Before today, I included nukes on our list of power needs. I've since scratched them off. You did too, didn't you?

excon

Appears one of the reactor builds has fallen apart.
The outside concrete seems to of crumbled away.
BBC News - Japan earthquake: Explosion at Fukushima nuclear plant (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12720219)

The Japanese government's chief spokesman, Yukio Edano, said the concrete building housing the plant's number one reactor had collapsed but the metal reactor container inside was not damaged.Hello again, ben:

Specifically, what made the Japanese reactors safer is that they were built INSIDE a containment building. THAT'S the building that blew up. It's that building that protects the public from be irradiated IF a meltdown occurs and SOME of the melted material escapes the reactor chamber and out onto the reactor floor. It'll melt through the floor too, and now that the containment building is GONE, all HELL is going to break out.

I LIVE in the path of death that's on my way.

Excon

Bear in mind that the reactor building only really protects the workings from the elements.

The actual core itself is encased in feet thick steel and concrete.
There's a lot more to nuclear reactors than simple buildings.
In the 60's a UK reactor suffered a meltdown in two of it's fuel rods. This was contained and it continued to operate for many years afterwards.

Nuclear energy is very safe, but gets huge press when things go wrong, as in three mile island and Chernobal (yeah can't spoll it)
In those case there was a lot of other factors that cause the eventual accidents.

Nuclear energy is very safe, but gets huge press when things go wrong,Hello again, ben:

In terms of the death they can cause, "very" safe isn't good enough for me. If it can't be absolutely safe, I'm going to pass.

excon

Nothing in life is absolutely safe, where would the fun in that be ?

You have more chance of being run over while walking on the side walk or even winning the Lottery, than being injured in a nuclear accident. Those are damn good odds..

Those are damn good odds..Hello again, ben:

Easy for you to say. You live on the opposite side of the world. Should it melt down, and nobody is saying it won't, I LIVE directly in the path the plume of deadly radiation is liable to take.

excon

I'll wait to see how this plays out. During Chernobyl ,the core was breached . So far I've heard no evidence of that in Japan. The explosion took out the external walls... not the containment .Pumping sea water into the containment makes me think there is damage to the core ;but for the moment it is still contained .As you know;there is plenty of sea water in the area.. all they need is the generators to operate the pumps.

This reactor from what I've read is a 40 year old design. It's like driving an old Pinto . I'm in favor of 21st century design.

As you recall from reading my postings on the subject ;I am in favor of development of 'Breeder Reactors' .

Maybe I'll reconsider my position about building them on the 'Ring of Fire' . But if I think the rhetoric of the left is true... burning carbon based energy has done much more negative health damage to humans than any nuke .

Hello again, ben:

Easy for you to say. You live on the opposite side of the world. Should it melt down, and nobody is saying it won't, I LIVE directly in the path the plume of deadly radiation is liable to take.

Excon


I hear what your saying, but France is a major user of Nukes and they are within spitting distance of me.

Even if it did go phuft, there's still an ocean between you, so nothing to really get panicked about.

The UK was in the path of Chernobal, and we got away extremely lightly.


I'll wait to see how this plays out. During Chernobyl ,the core was breached . So far I've hearrd no evidence of that in Japan. The explosion took out the external walls... not the containment .Pumping sea water into the containment makes me think there is damage to the core ;but for the moment it is still contained .
Indeed



This reactor from what I've read is a 40 year old design.
There are very few newer designs in commercial use, due to lack of government involvement in the nuclear industry.
After all why would the generators spend billions developing newer designs if they aren't licensed to deploy them.


Maybe I'll reconsider my position about building them on the 'Ring of Fire' . Pretty short sighted really, and Japan has a history of quakes, so something of this nature was only a case of waiting to happen.

Japan has just said that there has been no release of radiation and the metal containers are holding.

Hello again, ben:

Easy for you to say. You live on the opposite side of the world. Should it melt down, and nobody is saying it won't, I LIVE directly in the path the plume of deadly radiation is liable to take.

excon

Being the survivalist I know you are ,I'm surprised you don't have a bottle of potassium iodide tablets in your survival kit. Come to think of it ,most people should be taking iodine supplementation anyway (especially if you do not use sea salt ).

Isn't the Hanford site near Seattle ?

The last time nuke waste mixed with sea water this happened :

With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound
He pulls the spitting high tension wire down, Godzilla!

Helpless people on subway trains
Scream BUG-EYED(MY GOD) as he looks in on them, Godzilla!

He picks up a bus and he throws it back down
As he wades through the buildings toward the center of town, Godzilla

Oh no, they say he's got to go
Go go Godzilla, yeah
Oh no, there goes Tokyo
Go go Godzilla, yeah

Oh no, they say he's got to go
Go go Godzilla, yeah
Oh no, there goes Tokyo
Go go Godzilla, yeah
Oh no, they say he's got to go
Go go Godzilla, yeah
Oh no, there goes Tokyo
Go go Godzilla, yeah
History shows again and again
How nature points up the folly of men
Godzilla(Blue Oyster Cult)

Oh great now another reactor on the same site is having more serious problems: BBC News - Japan quake: Fears for second nuclear reactor (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12724953)

Here's more details on what this could actually mean: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12723092

My concern is with the people in the area being supplied with shelter ,food ,and pottable water.

The containment of these reactors were not constructed as well as the one at Three Mile Island,but much better than Chernobyl (which was a poorly designed system).
Within minutes ,half the core at TMI disintegrated .Although some radioative steam was released , assessments suggested it didn't have any real health or environmental impact.
A full meltdown of any of the Japanese plants cores would also release radioactive gases, but those tend to dissipate in the atmosphere. Since the wind currents go out to sea there is less danger to the highly populated areas of Japan .There is little danger to the good people of Washington State.

There is little danger to the good people of Washington State.Hello again, tom:

What you say is true, TODAY. But, not so for tomorrow. An expert on FOX just told me that Hanford is built to withstand a 7.1 earthquake. He said the one at Indian River near you wouldn't withstand a 9.0. There's a couple in California that'll crack like eggs when the big one hits, and they EXPECT it within the next 30 years. Clearly, a 9.0 IS within the realm of possibility... Is Indian River built on a fault?

Contrary to what you say, I think MANY of us are at risk.

excon

On radiation poisoning.

The good news is that the Japanese eat sea food and kelp... foods high in potassium iodide. This is the standard treatment for exposure to radioactive iodine .


The biggest threat is from caesium-137 which has been detected around the plant. It has a 30 year half life and easily gets into the food chain.The area around Chernobyl has high concentrations of it .

If you are going to be poisoned by radiation ,perhaps the one you should hope for is tritrium. The treatment for exposure ? Drink mass quantities of beer.
The Office of Health, Safety and Security (http://www.hss.doe.gov/nuclearsafety/ns/techstds/standard/hdbk1079/hdb1079b.html)

It's not Indian River... it's Indian Point on the Hudson River . One of the jets on 9-11 flew directly over the plant on it's way to the Twin Towers.
I live in the evacuation zone and hear the sirens when the systems are tested .

It was just denied re-licensing . It is an old plant and the issue appears to be how much water it consumes in the cooling process. An easy fix would be the construction of cooling towers .But opponents claim it would be too costly and too big (about the size of some of these windmills I've seen) .
But their real opposition is that it would be a remedy to their other opposition... that the plant consumes too much water and kills fish that accidentally get sucked in.

To my knowledge ,the closest fault line to Indian Point is the Ramapo Fault.It is a good 20-30 miles west of the Hudson and has been inactive for 200 years. I've never heard of a quake in this area approaching a 9.0.

Isn't it amazing that no matter where or how big the disaster it always comes back to discussing the US. Get a life guys, I think it has just been demonstrated that there are bigger things than the US at stake right now.

You are welcome to contribute your insights . A quick review of this posting shows that anything else was exhausted in a couple of comments.
The Japanese understand and have lived with the risks of living on the Pacific plate for centuries. Their island chain is a direct result of the same plate activities that created the quake and tsunami.

The nuclear reactor problem is the man made factor . That is why it has taken the bulk of the comments.

The nuclear reactor problem is the man made factor . That is why it has taken the bulk of the comments.

Could be Tom that was because you didn't take it seriously from the start.

At first sight you might think the nuclear reactor is the only man made problem, yes fairly stupid to site it in a place that is subject to earthquake, but, given the proximity to earthquake, tsunami is a japanese word, a concept they are only too familiar with, the whole country, sited where it is, carries with it a man made factor of a disaster waiting to happen.

You might think that given their preoccupation with making buildings earthquake proof they might have given some consideration to the desirability of building on a coastal plain that could be inundated.

I expect that this earthquake was thought to be one in a million or one in a million years but we have experienced two in the last decade so no one has any idea with what frequency this might happen. It means our whole idea of an idillic life by the sea needs serious thought and I have no doubt that in certain parts of the world, the whole ideal of sustainable development on a seismic fault needs to be rethought

A couple thoughts. The problem with the nukes is not that they couldn't survive a 9.0... they did.

What is taking them out is the tsunami disabled the redundant pumping systems . That is a correctable problem.
Anyway ,I think the move to use nukes as a viable alternative to carbon based is pretty much a dead idea. Too bad.. We needed a bridge to these future technologies. What will be conveniently ignored is that reactors will continue to be used all over the developed world for other purposes. Reactors all over the world provide over 10,000 hospitals with the necessary radioisotopes for diagnostic and medical treatment . Would we shut them down too ?

The problem with the nukes is not that they couldn't survive a 9.0 ....they did. Hello again, tom:

That's one way to put it. Yes, PART of the plant survived - and PART didn't. The PART that didn't, though, kind of outweighs the PART that did. That's because from the public's point of view, whether a deadly leak came from THIS breaking or THAT breaking, makes no difference.

You say what went wrong is correctable. That's true - if we know what's going to happen. But, we don't. We can build them to withstand X, and HOPE a tad more than X doesn't happen. History has taught us one thing, for sure. When we build them to withstand X, we find out later that X was just a tad too light.

Speaking of Indian Point, if you were watching FOX over the weekend, you'd have found out that the plant was built to withstand a 3.0 earthquake. But, they discovered a brand new fault, and now believe that an earthquake of 7.0 is entirely possible. Seems Indian Point is a tad light, but this was FOX talking, so I don't know how reliable it is... You were watching, weren't you?

Should it be shut down?

excon

I was part of a lively debate locally a few years ago. The utility company wanted to put a modern gas powered generation plant in the area. The NIMBY's won that fight. Upstate just north of the Catskill Mountains the local utility wanted to build windmills . The NIMBY's won that fight too. They didn't want the windmills in their sightline . Now in the same area there is a raging debate because they are sitting on huge gas reserves stuck under shale formations. It would be an economic boom for a fairly depressed region. My guess is that the environmentalists will win that fight too.

When I lived on Long Island there was a long debate while LILCO built the Shoreham nuke plant. It was an economic boom for the community ,because it added revenues that offset some of the lowest property tax rates on the Island.
They finished the plant ;contaminated it with nuclear material while they tested it. Then Mario Cuomo refused to allow it license to operate.

Now the same folks who objected to the nukes also mobilized to prevent windmills off shore.
This is not unusual . Robert Kennedy Jr. that noted environmentalist turned NIMBY when they proposed windmills off Cape Cod.

Around the world everyone demands more energy .Yet there appears to be a problem with every generating means .

If you believe that carbon fuels cannot generate enough energy for the future;or believe they harm the environment so much that we cannot continue to use them... and believe as I do ,that renewables are a niche at best... then there has to be a bridge to the next generation of energy sources.

I think we have no choice but to build nukes and make them as safe as we can.

Indian Point should be inspected ;perhaps upgraded ,and then relicensed . It provides a third of the energy used in New York City and it's surrounding counties. I see nothing on the table to replace it.

Perhaps the left thinks they can run their house on a bicycle turned into a generator AKA like was used in Soylent Green in the apartment Charlton Heston shared with the old guy.

Bet they get over THAT really quick. Might work in California where it really doesn't get all that cold in winter... they would just have to sweat the summers out. And that Ice Cream is going to cost them a LOT of physical labor to keep cold.

Or let them try and grow their OWN food without ANY carbon based fuel.

And incidentally... most fertilizers are a byproduct of the petroleum industry... besides the tractors needed to till and harvest the fields.

Kill oil or make it expensive... Food is going to become scarce and expensive.


Unfortunately... nuclear power is the only non-carbon based fuel that can produce the electricity needed for life. And Solar cells or Wind power AREN'T options for everyone. Many places don't have reliable wind... and much of the country has cloud cover far too often for solar to be viable.

And like was mentioned... it wasn't the earthquake.. but the tsunami that took out the diesel backup generators for the cooling system that was the root of the problem.

I don't know enough about nuclear reactors to know if there is a design that had as a failsafe... A way to fully retract the rods that would allow the reactor to effectively shut down where short of the cooling system actually going dry would not require pumps to keep it cool even in a minimal shutdown status. That is without having other more dangerous risks inherent in the design.

Sorry to Hi-Jack the thread but this video of this religious girl is unbelievable I don't even have words for how disturbed I am after watching this sc*mbag.
YouTube - GOD IS SO GOOD!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UmotTE-VlY&feature=player_embedded#at=81)

Sorry to Hi-Jack the thread but this video of this religious girl is unbelievable I don't even have words for how disturbed I am after watching this sc*mbag.
YouTube - GOD IS SO GOOD!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UmotTE-VlY&feature=player_embedded#at=81)Religious fanatics are a scary bunch, regardless of the religion.

That's one girl who has a special place reserved for her... in Hades.

Someone should tell her there are quite a few Christians in Japan.

Well now it's getting kind of silly: Japan volcano: Earthquake, tsunami and potential nuclear meltdown not enough | Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366109/Japan-volcano-Earthquake-tsunami-potential-nuclear-meltdown-enough.html)

I wasn't kidding when I referred to Godzilla .He represents every challenge that the Japanese have had to face in their history. Japan is cycles of building, flourishing, destruction and eventual rebirth.

This one spared Tokyo. But Tokyo endured complete destruction twice in the last century . 1923 it was flattened by an earth quake ,and in 1945 it was firebombed .
It is now the home of 30 million people... all living in the shadow of Mount Fuji.

Hello again,

We must keep in mind that according to the right wing, tsunamis and volcanoes are only a theory.

excon

Facts based on scientific empirical evidence is real.That would include the existence of volcanos and the reality that tectonic shifts cause tsunamis. These realities are not dependent on fraudulent data analysis.

Hello again,

We must keep in mind that according to the right wing, tsunamis and volcanoes are only a theory.

excon

No ex that's the alternative theory of earthly life, that The Earth is alive and fighting back. Let's face it ex, humans are a virus, sort of like a skin disease

Hello again, tom:

You mentioned earlier, that the plane that hit the twin towers flew right over Indian Point. How many people would have died if they flew the plane into that plant?

excon

None . The outer walls of the plant containment dome is reinforced concrete, about four feet thick at its thinnest point .

The planes that took down the Twin Towers had to penetrate glass. If the same planes had crashed into the Empire State Building it never would've happened .

But lets assume it breached the thick concrete wall of the containment dome. Would it breach the containment vessel ? No .

The reactor at Indian Point is underground under another 4 feet of concrete and steel reinforced floor .

Unlike the Japanese plants(which stored spent fuel on the roof) ,the spent fuel rods are stored under another structure with a protective flooring 40 feet deep and surrounded by many feet of solid concrete.

A commando force of terrorists would find stiff resistance and a building very difficult to penetrate. The security force is trained with automatic weapons ; the doors are steel reinforced and have an automatic lockdown .It has a razor wire perimeter and strategically placed machine gun turrets.
It takes seconds to shut the active plant completely down.

Trust me .There are many choicer targets for terrorists to hit in the greater NY area . They've attempted to hit them a number of times since 9-11. Along the same route is Yankee stadium . Routinely during baseball season there are 50,000 + people in this open stadium. A plane crashing inside the stadium would cause more casualties than anything they could do with Indian Point.

Have a read of Sum Of All Fears by Tom Clancy.

There they use a low level dirty nuke at the World Series final!

Yes I've read most of the Clancy Jack Ryan books.

The terrorists in that book got their weapon from an Israeli jet that had crashed.
His latest book ('Dead or Alive') has an OBL like cleric attempting to get material for a dirty bomb from Yucca Mountain.

Have a read of Sum Of All Fears by Tom Clancy.

There they use a low level dirty nuke at the World Series final !!

Didn't read the book... but it did make a good movie. And movies rarely live up to the book.

The movie didn't live up to the book due to PC. The movie conconcted a group of neo-Nazi 'white supremists' as the terrorist group instead of the jihadists that Clancy used in the book.

Edit... it also used Ben Affleck instead of Harrison Ford.

As I expected... have read a LOT of books that later became movies over the years... NONE have ever really come close to living up to the book yet.

You'd love the book. Clancy takes pages to describe the process of the nuclear detonation while it occures . You just don't get that kind of detail in a movie.

Lets put the nuke issue in some context here: BBC News - Nuclear power: Energy solution or evil curse? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12730473)

Hello ben:

I don't know if the article puts the issue in the PROPER context. It's clear, that he's a proponent of nuclear energy. He's awfully assertive about these particular reactors posing NO problem when he says, "A disaster on the scale of the Chernobyl nuclear accident in the former Soviet Union is highly unlikely, according to experts, because Japan's reactors are built to a much higher standard and have much more rigorous safety measures."

I just don't think that's credible in light of today's news. Plus, he says it has the "lowest carbon footprint". By THAT measure it may be true. After all, it IS mined, and shipped all the way from Kazakhstan. That leave a carbon footprint. But CARBON isn't the environmental problem the world is worried about when it comes to nuclear power. It's waste disposal... As a matter of fact, the fire in the #4 reactor was in the spent fuel rod pit, cause we have NO where to dispose of it. He doesn't mention that at all.

Look. I'm not against using nuclear power. But we need to have an HONEST debate about it.

excon

My biggest concern is that Iran and the NORKS have nukes. How much transparency about safety is there coming from them ?

Oh yeah . The IAEA monitors them (snicker) .

Other news on the alternate energy front...

Earlier I responded that seamingly committed Greenies were in fact NIMBYs .
The NY Slimes has a follow-up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/weekinreview/13nimby.html?_r=2&ref=science

You should hear the whiner Anthony Weiner complain.

When I become mayor, you know what I'm going to spend my first year doing?” Mr. Weiner said to Mr. Bloomberg, as tablemates listened. “I'm going to have a bunch of ribbon-cuttings tearing out your [expletive] bike lanes.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/nyregion/06sadik-khan.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

So where does this leave us ? Carbon based energy ?NO! Nukes? NO ! Green energy ? NO! Fusion? It was 50 years away 50 years ago. Flux Capacitor ? Maybe in the 22nd century.
Everyone should plan on building grass and mud yurts .
Pacific Yurts-What is a Yurt? (http://www.yurts.com/what/default.aspx)
Become a hunter gatherer .
Kill your food and skin them for your clothes .
Buckskin Clothing | Buckskin Clothes (http://buckskin-clothing.leatherlegends.com/)

And say goodby because there won't be the energy necessary to run your computer. If we kill off a few billion of us we'll restore balance with mother Gaia .

My biggest concern is that Iran and the NORKS have nukes. How much transparency about safety is there coming from them ?

Oh yeah . The IAEA monitors them (snicker) .

other news on the alternate energy front....

earlier I responded that seamingly commited Greenies were in fact NIMBYs .
The NY Slimes has a follow-up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/weekinreview/13nimby.html?_r=2&ref=science

You should hear the whiner Anthony Weiner complain.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/nyregion/06sadik-khan.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

So where does this leave us ? Carbon based energy ?NO! Nukes? NO ! Green energy ? NO! Fusion? It was 50 years away 50 years ago. Flux Capacitor ? Maybe in the 22nd century.
Everyone should plan on building grass and mud yurts .
Pacific Yurts-What is a Yurt? (http://www.yurts.com/what/default.aspx)
Become a hunter gatherer .
Kill your food and skin them for your clothes .
Buckskin Clothing | Buckskin Clothes (http://buckskin-clothing.leatherlegends.com/)

And say goodby because there won't be the energy necessary to run your computer. If we kill off a few billion of us we'll restore balance with mother Gaia .

Most of those NIMBY's don't know how to grow weeds, much less HUNT... many are vegitarians that think animals have the rights of people.

Then there are those that are going to be whining why they don't get food delivered to them because they are underprivledged and shouldn't have to fend for themselves.

Never mind many of them voted to prohibit everything that made modern life possible.

Project Dweller skins will make nice leather, no callouses to mar the hide.


And if you havest them early enough... the hides will be ample in size... if you get them before starvation shrinks their size.

My dad has been living in the mountains in Chile for a while now, growing food, living off minimal power, and a water well... waiting for the rest of his family to go and join him. As is evident by my username, I have been considering that option. Maybe instead of my original plan (moving to Japan) I should just go to Chile now?

You all seem a lot more up to speed with current events than I, so I am just using my youthful power of deduction here...

My dad has been living in the mountains in Chile for a while now, growing food, living off of minimal power, and a water well...waiting for the rest of his family to go and join him. As is evident by my username, I have been considering that option. Maybe instead of my original plan (moving to Japan) I should just go to Chile now?

You all seem a lot more up to speed with current events than I, so I am just using my youthful power of deduction here...It really depends on what you want out of life and how self-sufficent you can really be. Most of the p[opulation that live in larger cities rely on others to provide end-product food, water, power, etc. they view their role as wage earners to pay for these services. As well many rely on technology for contact and entertainment.These people would not adapt well off the grid.

Chile is smack in the middle of the Ring of Fire. They had a major earthquake in January and February .
The biggest difference was the tsunami that hit Japan after the quake.

It really depends on what you want out of life and how self-sufficent you can really be. Most of the p[opulation that live in larger cities rely on others to provide end-product food, water, power, etc., they view their role as wage earners to pay for these services. As well many rely on technology for contact and entertainment.These people would not adapt well off the grid.

I was raised in a moderately "off-the-grid" environment. As of late, I've been living in urbania, as a partial rebellion to my upbringing. Though my individual skills of survival aren't exceptional, I would have many resources (e.g. my dad and the community in which he lives). I lived there for three months to help him prepare his land, build his house, and plant his garden. I know I would like, it there... but my plan was Japan first, and then Chile for a while... and then thinking about settling down. The first idea (Japan first) isn't looking so good, especially since the plan was to move there in November 2011.

Chile is smack in the middle of the Ring of Fire. They had a major earthquake in January and February .
The biggest difference was the tsunami that hit Japan after the quake.
Yes, I know this. I was really scared for my friends and family when the quakes hit. Luckily, those particular quakes didn't effect my friends save a little shaking. Chile isn't nearly as populated as Japan, so the devastation wasn't as bad. I don't plan on avoiding natural disasters 100%... I'd be hard pressed to find a location ideal for that.

There would be issues of acceptance in Japan. It is a very homogeneous nation.

I was raised in a moderately "off-the-grid" environment. As of late, I've been living in urbania, as a partial rebellion to my upbringing. Though my individual skills of survival aren't exceptional, I would have many resources (e.g., my dad and the community in which he lives). I lived there for three months to help him prepare his land, build his house, and plant his garden. I know I would like, it there...but my plan was Japan first, and then Chile for a while...and then thinking about settling down. The first idea (Japan first) isn't looking so good, especially since the plan was to move there in November 2011.
I too have fantasized about living on my own wits and the land but know I could never do it, my upbringing wasn't like yours (not that mine was bad mind you). Maybe that's why I enjoy reading post-apocalyptic novels, people are forced to go back to fending for themselves, or find someone who can.

There would be issues of acceptance in Japan. It is a very homogeneous nation.
Yes, that's a major consideration for people to make if they want to go east. I have already started to modify my wardrobe and have been practicing etiquette for dealing with Japanese business people and children (as I would plan on teaching English to school children).

I see we are back to talking about fantasy again when the real thing unravels before our eyes. If I read the dispatches correctly we now have four separate reactors that are damaged and may or may not be contained with two others ar risk. No jihadist could have hoped for such a result. What makes this all the more bizzaire is that the Japanese Prime Minister specifically referred to the nuclear power stations in his fIrst speech. He must have been aware then that there were problems but they started with denial
http://www.news.com.au/world/japan-earthquake-new-explosion-rocks-fukushima-nuclear-power-plant/story-e6frfkyi-1226022151756
The remain calm warnings are beginning to look like outright lies.

I see we are back to talking about fantasy again when the real thing unravels before our eyes. If I read the dispatches correctly we now have four separate reactors that are damaged and may or may not be contained with two others ar risk. No jihadist could have hoped for such a result. What makes this all the more bizzaire is that the Japanese Prime Minister specifically referred to the nuclear power stations in his fIrst speech. He must have been aware then that there were problems but they started with denial
Radiation leaks from crippled Fukushima nuclear plant in northeast Japan | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/world/japan-earthquake-new-explosion-rocks-fukushima-nuclear-power-plant/story-e6frfkyi-1226022151756)
The remain calm warnings are beginning to look like outright lies. Thanks for putting us back on track. I apologize for the hijack; that was my fault.

Level 6? Yikes.


"We monitored a higher than normal amount of radiation in the morning in Tokyo. But we don't consider it to be at a level where the human body is affected," said Sairi Koga, an official of the Tokyo Metropolitan Government.

Hopefully it stays that way. Shutting down Tokyo would be... interesting.

Level 6?? Yikes.
.

Yes a significant emergency and made all the worse by the chaos in the surrounding region

Interesting how the press have started to round UP the magnitude of the quake.
There's a HUGE difference between an 8.9 and a 9.0!!

The scale is NOT linear in nature, but algorithmic.

Interesting how the press have started to round UP the magnitude of the quake.
There's a HUGE difference between an 8.9 and a 9.0 !!!

The scale is NOT linear in nature, but algorithmic. Journalism is not what it used to be. Why investigate when simple elementary mathematical strategies will do the trick (as far as public opinion is concerned)?

Thanks for this, Ben... I am one of the "general public" who doesn't know much about the Richter scale.

Clete stay calm . Go out ,play a round of golf ;party with the reporters ,fill out your college basketball picks ;show true leadership in a crisis. Take a trip to South America.

Oh wait... that's the President's agenda.

My brother has been living and teaching in Japan for 25 years. Quite an active few days of regular updates of what it has been like.

When the quake hit, he and my niece were at school. They literally wondered for a moment if the school was going to come down around them. It took them 10 hours to get home for a trip that normally takes 1.25 hours. The last of the kids on school buses were dropped off at 1:30 am. Freeways, subways, trains were all shut down. The supermarket shelves were bare.

They have just recently decided to leave Tokyo for Osaka for a time for the peace of mind with all that is going on. Long gas lines, fuel being rationed (one station only allowed 5 liters per car!), many roads still closed. Depending on the line, subways operating at about 50-70% now. Food and gas in short supply. Hard to imagine...

Interesting how the press have started to round UP the magnitude of the quake.
There's a HUGE difference between an 8.9 and a 9.0 !!!

The scale is NOT linear in nature, but algorithmic.

Well what's a magniture between friends? You don't really think the average guy understands this stuff do you? Like this quake is 1,000 times more powerful than Haiti. Who can imagine that? We are in denial about the number of victims too. They still speak about 10,000 deaths but of how many towns and villages have they said there are 10,000 missing here. I will be surprised if the toll ultimately is lower than 100,000. If you look at the pictures there are few people, even in the evacuation centres

Problem with the "death"toll, until they find bodies they can only class people as missing.

Yes when 80% of a village of 20k is destroyed then it's a safe bet most of them are brown bread, but without proof then they are still only missing.
Also, considering the guy they found 10 MILES out at sea, I think a large number of The Missing will never be found as their remains have been washed away, food for the fishies.

well what's a magniture between friends? you don't really think the average guy understands this stuff do you? Like this quake is 1,000 times more powerful than Haiti. Who can imagine that? We are in denial about the number of victims too. They still speak about 10,000 deaths but of how many towns and villages have they said there are 10,000 missing here. I will be surprised if the toll ultimately is lower than 100,000. If you look at the pictures there are few people, even in the evacuation centres
It's always so sad to think about... new year, new country, same story.

I see so few photos of children, babies, who've survived. A column in today's paper (written by a Tokyo resident) mentioned school is out during March. Does anyone know how children are faring?

I saw some children in shelters in the news. They looked cheerful . This I believe is masking a horrible reality . I heard reports of whole schools of children missing .

There are entire populations of towns missing. On occasion you hear of a survivor found here and there, but it becomes less common, obviously, as time goes on.

I know my brother mentioned that his school hopes to reopen March 28th but of course that remains to be seen. The families of some students had left the area as soon as they were able to. One, at least, was apparently planning to head to Australia.

When I lived in California, we had earthquake kits for the students at school that would allow for us to take care of them for several days until emergency workers, or parents, were able to get through.

Japan’s high density, central planning, mass transit, demographic uniformity, and a culture of mutual dependence allow millions to live humanely and successfully in quite crowded conditions (in areas of Tokyo at 6,000 persons and more per square kilometer). And compared to other Asian and African cities (Mumbai or Lagos) even Tokyo is relatively not so dense, though far more successful. Yet such urban societies are extremely vulnerable to the effects of earthquakes, tsunamis, “man-caused disasters” and other assorted catastrophes, analogous in nature perhaps to tightly knit bee colonies that have lost their queens.

I don’t know quite why many of our environmentalists and urban planners wish to emulate such patterns of settlement (OK, I do know), since for us in America it would be a matter of choice, rather than, as in a highly congested Japan, one of necessity. Putting us in apartments and high rises, reliant on buses and trains, and dependent on huge centralized power, water, and sewage grids are recipes not for ecological utopia, but for a level of dependence and vulnerability that could only lead to disaster. Again, I understand that in terms of efficiency of resource utilization, such densities make sense and I grant that culture sparks where people are, but in times of calamity these regimens prove enormously fragile and a fool’s bargain.

Works and Days The Fragility of Complex Societies (http://pajamasmedia.com/victordavishanson/the-fragility-of-complex-societies/)

Hello again,

Here's some irony for you. I'm struck by the fact that the FIRST event that began the cascade of events that destroyed the reactors, WASN'T the earthquake OR the tsunami. It was the MAN MADE decision to program the reactors to SHUT DOWN when an earthquake hits.

As reported, the reactors survived the quake, and wouldn't have NEEDED the backup generators that were destroyed by the tsunami, IF the reactors weren't shut down in the first place.

Pretty weird, huh?

excon

Complex systems are vulnerable to the simple unseen.
I think the last time the NE grid went down there were some trees that weren't properly trimmed ;and then the cascade of failures began.