Hello:

As mentioned in my recent thread, incivility isn't the problem. If this guy had walked up to his congresswoman and been UNCIVIL, we wouldn't be having this conversation... Nope. He SHOT her - with a GUN So, it's the talk of GUN PLAY that's the problem. What's so hard to understand?? GUN PLAY! I don't know how that got conflated with yelling at somebody... I LOVE incivility. I ain't pledging to be civil to nobody. How does everybody get so sidetracked??

excon

If we really ramped up the imflamatory rhetoric we may get to the place the country was in the Jeffersonian/Jacksonian era.

During the Jackson /JQ Adams contest the Adams faction was calling Jackson a murderer and a cannibal... and his wife a harlot.

The biggest difference between then and now is the incivility gets broadcast on the net . Back then the bloggers and MSM of the time ,the pamphletters ,just didn't reach huge audiences ,and these instances were contained and consigned to the historical record.

I also would like to point out again that this basturd had zero interest in debate civil and otherwise . He checked out of civil society and into his own reality .

He is really no different than the guy who tried to off Teddy Roosevelt, in a case that was eerily similar to Saturday.

1912 a psychotic saloonkeeper John Schrank,decided to take out Teddy Roosevelt. No one is sure when and if he ever had a strong interest in politics ,(he did object to TR going for a 3rd term) , but he did claim to be strongly influenced by a dream. He dreamed the ghost of William McKinley
Directed him to kill TR to avenge his assassination by anarchist Leon Czolgosz .

Schrank stalked TR until he found that he was to give a speech at the Milwaukee Auditorium and he attacked TR outside his hotel . He pointed a .38 pistol at his head and fired.

A bystander saw the gun and deflected Schrank's arm just as the trigger was pulled. Still the gun fired point blank at TR's heart.

Fortunately for Roosevelt in his jacket pocket was a 50 page speech double folded ,and his metal eye glass case . The bullet ripped through his clothing and the fortunate body armor and logged into TR's rib cage .

Roosevelt carried on and gave a 90 minute speech with the blood stain growing as he spoke. He could only whisper and said to the crowd... 'It takes more than that to kill a Bull Moose ' .

Rossevelt and Taft split the Republican vote and Woodrow Wilson became President.

Shrank was declared 'insane delusions, grandiose in character' and spent the rest of his life in an asylum.

Look we can all agree that this goose was insane, but there needs to be perspective in political debate as in all interaction. If I see inflammatory speech in political debate I know that that person has already lost the argument and have little to contribute.

Who can say if an outcome of inflammatory speech and attitudes as was displayed in this instance led to an unstable person acting on it, but what we can say for sure is that the availability of a weapon facilitated his action. There is just too much of the blow things up or blow him away attitude.

Then again... if someone there had been armed perhaps he could've been stopped sooner. One thing I have to wonder about is why wasn't there a police presence at a major political event ? This sheriff who continues to flap his gums hasn't answered that yet.

then again...if someone there had been armed perhaps he could've been stopped sooner.
There was. One of the men who had sat on Loughner (Joseph Zamudio) was carrying a handgun. In an interview soon after the shooting, he said he had been on his way out of one of the nearby stores and was headed toward his car when he caught sight of the mêlée. He reached into his pocket and pulled back the safety of his handgun just in case he had to use it. He said he was ready to shoot and kill. He was able to help hold Loughner and keep him from using his gun.

then again...if someone there had been armed perhaps he could've been stopped sooner. One thing I have to wonder about is why wasn't there a police presence at a major political event ? This sheriff who continues to flap his gums hasn't answered that yet.

Very much what if thinking and being an armchair judge. This was hardly a major political event but it may have warranted a police presence. What you have to decide is are people naturally belligerent or naturally docile. This was an after the election meeting probably no need to think it was anything special

So whatever the truth about this dude is, this tragedy is still the fault of those bitter gun totin' religion-clinging right-wingers. Is that what you're saying?

I blame John Kerry, he shouldn't have been campaigning for president with a shotgun in his hands.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/51262664.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF878921F7C3FC3F69D929FDA2C8DE1C43157859 490C748509C07FE143216228E3F968CEF06BF04B24B4128C

Hello again, Steve:

If you've followed me here, you'd KNOW that I'm not placing blame. I don't make a direct link. I'm only SUGGESTING that some nut MIGHT take advantage of the permission he receives from SOME politicians to use guns...

I'm only suggesting that GUN talk be stifled. Here in this great country of ours, you can think Sharron Angle was (and IS) your ideal politician. You are allowed to think it's cool to talk about shooting your opponents.

That's fine. I'm used to you being wrong. If John Kerry did an add with a shotgun, he's wrong too.

excon

Ok then, it was all that war imagery the left uses...

How to win the war on global warming (http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,20080428,00.html)

Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1589660)

The Republican War On Science (http://www.waronscience.com/home.php)

War On Greed (http://warongreed.org/)

Rupert Murdoch's War On Journalism (http://www.outfoxed.org/)

Or if you really want to get serious about how nonsensical the discussion has gotten, a visit to Zombietime should put it in perspective (http://www.zombietime.com/hall_of_shame/).

I detailed in the Jesse Ventura op that this had nothing to do with the political debate (unless you think things like 'truthers' ,'world wide banker's conspiracies ',and listening to the voices in your head, are part of the political discourse )

Hello again, Steve:

I see that you, like your political brethren, can't distinguish between mean and ugly political rhetoric, and talk of GUN PLAY... Furthermore, you don't even appear to be aware that I'm MAKING that distinction... Dude.

Sharron Angle suggested that if people don't like the way an election turns out, they can use their GUNS. YOU think my complaining about that is nonsensical, even though some nut just shot a politician. Dude.

Like I said, I'm used to you being wrong... I haven't changed my mind.

excon

Charles Manson was inspired by Beatles music , Hinkley by an obsession with Jodi Foster , Chapman by passages of 'Catcher in the Rye' ,the Colombine killers by Marilyn Manson and the Matrix .

This clown was inspired by the internet documentary 'Zeitgeist' (a net movie that more than one expert here recommended ) . Would it be fair for me to point out that those who recommended it to me were complicit in feeding thoughts of homicide ? Of course not.

This clown was inspired by the internet documentary.Hello again, tom:

THIS is NOT about him... I don't know what inspired him, and frankly, you don't either.. He's a NUT... Maybe a grasshopper inspired him... I don't CARE. THIS POST is about POLITICIANS who say GUN PLAY is an option... It IS a possibility that Sharron Angle inspired him, isn't is??

Deflect all you will.. I'm not going to let you... This is about POLITICIANS who think GUN PLAY is a viable alternative to elections... It's not about WAR.. It's not about yelling at people.. It's not about fighting... It's about SHOOTING people!! I don't know what's so hard to get.

excon

It's about politicians you don't like making marshall references which are common metaphors to the political contest.

Who was more responsible for political violence in this country in the last 50 years ? Tea Party types or left wingers ? I remember the late 60s very well.

It's about politicians you don't like making marshall references which are common metaphors to the political contest.Hello again, tom:

Yeah, that's what you guys say. You're wrong. It's about politicians giving PERMISSION to shoot the candidate they don't like... You SAY it's common, but it ISN'T. SAYING that if you don't like the results of an election, you can SHOOT your opponent ISN'T very common where I come from.

It's OK.. I suppose it's winger denial that prevents you from understanding, that when a politician calls for people to USE their "Second Amendment remedies", it actually means it's OK to SHOOT people.

Now, you'll talk about war metaphors, and fighting metaphors, and marshal reference metaphors... But, that stuff doesn't give PERMISSION for a disgruntled citizen to SHOOT people. Sharron Angle did just that.

I don't know what so hard to understand.

excon

So Sharon Angle inspired the shooting ? No you'll say it wasn't her or about him even as you pull the linkage out of thin air with no evidence. Maybe that's the civility and rhetoric problem the President is referring to ;the over the top speculations over causation . I honestly don't know why you are using her as an example over W Va Senator Manchin who actually fired a rifle in an ad . Do I think he inspired a shooting... no. And no reasonable argument could be made to create a linkage either .

I honestly don't know why you are using her as an example over W Va Senator Manchin who actually fired a rifle in an ad . Do I think he inspired a shooting ....no. And no reasonable argument could be made to create a linkage either .Hello again, tom:

Sure, him too. Honestly, I'm using Sharron Angle because she didn't mess around with what she was saying. She was clear, concise, and straightforward. You got to applaud her for that.

You're also right... I don't need a reasonable argument to LINK the events, because I'm NOT LINKING them. It's ANOTHER deflection...

But, I wonder... Are you saying that unless and until, we can actually FIND the link in this deranged gunman's brain, then it's COOL to call for your opponents assassination?? I think you MIGHT be saying that... Bummer.

excon

I see that you, like your political brethren, can't distinguish between mean and ugly political rhetoric, and talk of GUN PLAY... Furthermore, you don't even appear to be aware that I'm MAKING that distinction... Dude.

Ex, just because I don't play along doesn't mean I don't get the distinction you're trying to make. In fact, I just find it irrelevant.


Sharron Angle suggested that if people don't like the way an election turns out, they can use their GUNS. YOU think my complaining about that is nonsensical, even though some nut just shot a politician. Dude.

No, I just know that most Americans are not nuts.


Like I said, I'm used to you being wrong... I haven't changed my mind.

I have a gun, more than one, I talk about guns, read articles about guns. My dad has many guns, he carried before it was legal, he taught me and my 3 brothers all how to shoot. We'd go to Grandma's house and as young as 8 he would let me strap on a .22 and just go shoot tin cans or whatever else we could make a target of. I even played with GI Joe and little army men. I'm playing my 4th version of Halo, and am waiting delivery on a Call of Duty game. I've played several other first person shooters as well. Heck, I've watched John Wayne and Clint Eastwood movies... I've never shot anyone and as far as I know no one has been driven to murder because of my example.

My mom and dad were held hostage and robbed in their own home and he could have killed the man, but he stayed calm and evaluated the situation and just knew the guy wasn't out to hurt anyone. Everyone got out alive.

All this rot about gun talk AND the political rhetoric from the right is NONSENSE, we are not stirring up the masses to violence. This guy had a beef with Giffords since 2007, long before the Tea Party and while Bush was president. He had a long history of bizarre behavior (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/14/us/14college.html?src=mv) documented by the Pima Community College he attended. Like the Ft Hood shooter the signals were there but no one did anything. And yet, within minutes of this tragedy knees jerked all over the country, and suddenly I am implicated in a murder.

Me? Yes me. I voted for Palin and McCain, I own guns, I'm a conservative, I've encouraged the people to "take back" their country, and you know what, implicating me in a mass shooting pi$$es me off. Just like I've been unfairly and unjustifiable demonized as a racist bigot, which also pi$$es me off.

The left and their accomplices in the media (http://www.mediaresearch.org/press/releases/2011/20110112103622.aspx) have abandoned reason (http://www.mrc.org/public/default.aspx), justice, fairness and facts (http://www.mrc.org/specialreports/2010/realradiohatemongers/ExecSumm.aspx) and targeted millions of Americans just going about their lives as being dangers to society and that is far more irresponsible than whatever gun talk that has your panties in a wad. In my opinion, you'd think all these people calling us bitter, gun totin', religion-clinging murderers would stop pushing our buttons.

In my opinion, you'd think all these people calling us bitter, gun totin', religion-clinging murderers would stop pushing our buttons.Hello again, Steve:

In your next lifetime... In THIS one, you got ME to deal with.

excon

All this rot about gun talk AND the political rhetoric from the right is NONSENSE, we are not stirring up the masses to violence.Hello again, Steve:

Relax... I didn't accuse "we". You're not responsible for Sharron Angle, other than denying what she's saying... But, that doesn't make you guilty of stirring up anything... It just makes you wrong.

I've been quite clear... If you want to call what I'm saying an attack, it's an attack on any politician who uses GUN PLAY as an oblique suggestion..

excon

But, I wonder... Are you saying that unless and until, we can actually FIND the link in this deranged gunman's brain, then it's COOL to call for your opponents assassination?? I think you MIGHT be saying that... Bummer.


Aren't you the one complaining about PC ? If you like I'll rehash the history of vitriolic over the top rhetoric by our politicians that would make today's version appear to be amateurs.
When conservatives in Texas put a 'wanted for treason' ad about JFK in circulation prior to his trip to Dallas in 1963 ,did that inspire his assassin ? Of course not . Oswald was a commie infatuated with Castro.
It is a red herring to even suggest the political rhetoric of the day led to this attack.

By the way... Francophones in American leadership in the late 18th century used to have replicas of Guillotines on their office shelves.

It is a red herring to even suggest the political rhetoric of the day led to this attack.Hello again, tom:

It WOULD be a red herring IF I suggested that. But, I didn't. Let me say it again... I don't know WHAT inspired this nut... It doesn't matter.. I don't NEED to know. I don't care. My post ISN'T about him. It's about politicians who suggest that you can SHOOT your opponents if you don't agree with them... I'd be saying it, and DID, even IF nobody got shot.

It's about WHAT SHE SAID... She was clear. She was concise... She didn't pretend she was saying something else. YOU, on the other hand, cannot seem to understand what she said... How is it, that you misunderstand her?? What do you think Second Amendment remedies are?? Or, are your political blinders keeping you from seeing what's right in front of you?

This post is a pretty simple proposition. It's about HER, and what she said - NOT HIM. I've said it here about 20 times.. I don't know what's so hard to get.

excon

Relax, ex. I'm not accusing you of attacking me or anyone else. You're really too much of a pu$$y cat to be taken for a threat (geez, can't even say pu$$y cat here without being bleeped).

No, unlike those I AM accusing, I placed the bulls-eye where it belongs, such as those referred to in the links provided.

What do you think Second Amendment remedies are??

The right to bear arms is the right to own guns... not to murder . Do you think she was advising her supporters to shoot Harry Reid ? I don't think you do. I don't believe you think the 2nd amendment is a licence to kill either .

Do you think this statement by JFK was inciteful ?
Those who make peaceful resolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.

Do you think she was advising her supporters to shoot Harry Reid ? I don't think you do. I don't believe you think the 2nd amendment is a licence to kill either .Hello again, tom:

Wow... Talk about red herrings... This isn't about what I believe, you believe or Steve believes. This is about what Sharron Angle said. This is it:
------------------------------

"You know, our Founding Fathers, they put that Second Amendment in there for a good reason and that was for the people to protect themselves against a tyrannical government. And in fact Thomas Jefferson said it's good for a country to have a revolution every 20 years.

I hope that's not where we're going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out."
------------------------------------------

I don't think she could have been clearer.

excon

You don't believe Angle was inciting her supporters to shoot Reid do you ?

Speaking of Jefferson :
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants,"

Inciteful ?

You don't believe Angle was inciting her supporters to shoot Reid do you ? Hello again, tom:

Inciting?? I don't know... Giving them permission?? YES.

On another thread, you were looking for some PLAIN ENGLISH. Here's some plain English:

"I hope that's not where we're going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around?"

excon

Angle's remark was not incitement, but a foreshadowing of the possibilities prescribed for in our constitution intentionally. The left just comes right out and calls for the death of their enemies (http://www.mediaresearch.org/press/releases/2011/20110112103622.aspx).


■ “I'm waiting for the day when I pick it up, pick up a newspaper or click on the Internet and find out he's choked to death on his own throat fat or a great big wad of saliva or something, you know, whatever. Go away, Rush, you make me sick!” — Left-wing radio host Mike Malloy on the January 4, 2010 Mike Malloy Show, talking about Rush Limbaugh going to the hospital after suffering chest pains.

■ “Rush Limbaugh is beginning to look more and more like Mr. Big, and at some point somebody's going to jam a CO2 pellet into his head and he's going to explode like a giant blimp. That day may come. Not yet, but we'll be there to watch.” — Chris Matthews on MSNBC's Morning Meeting, October 13, 2009.

■ “So, Michele, slit your wrist! Go ahead! [chuckles] I mean, you know, why not? I mean, if you want to — or, you know, do us all a better thing. Move that knife up about two feet. I mean, start right at the collarbone.” — Montel Williams talking about Representative Michele Bachmann on Air America's Montel Across America, September 2, 2009.

■ “He is an enemy of the country, in my opinion, **** Cheney is, he is an enemy of the country... You know, Lord, take him to the Promised Land, will you? See, I don't even wish the guy goes to Hell, I just want to get him the hell out of here.” — Ed Schultz, The Ed Schultz Show, May 11, 2009.

■ Author/humorist P.J. O'Rourke: “It's the twilight of the radio loud-mouth, you know? I knew it from the moment the fat guy-”
Host Bill Maher: “You mean Rush Limbaugh and Sean-”
O'Rourke: “-from the moment the fat guy refused to share his drugs... ” Maher: “You mean the OxyContin that he was on?. Why couldn't he have croaked from it instead of Heath Ledger?” — HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher, February 8, 2008.

■ “I hear about Tony Snow and say to myself, well, stand up every day, lie to the American people at the behest of your dictator-esque boss and well, how could a cancer NOT grow in you. Work for Fox News, spinning the truth in to a billion knots and how can your gut not rot?” — San Francisco radio talk show host Charles Karel Bouley in a March 27, 2007 article at The Huffington Post that was later pulled “at the request of the author.”

■ “I'm just saying if he did die, other people, more people would live. That's a fact.” — Host Bill Maher on his HBO show Real Time, March 2, 2007, discussing how a few commenters at a left-wing blog were upset that an attempt to kill Vice President Cheney in Afghanistan had failed.

■ “Earlier today, a rental truck carried a half a million ballots from Palm Beach to the Florida Supreme Court there in Tallahassee. CNN had live helicopter coverage from the truck making its way up the Florida highway, and for a few brief moments, America held the hope that O.J. Simpson had murdered Katherine Harris.” — Bill Maher on ABC's Politically Incorrect, November 30, 2000.

■ Host Tina Gulland: “I don't think I have any Jesse Helms defenders here. Nina?” NPR's Nina Totenberg: “Not me. I think he ought to be worried about what's going on in the Good Lord's mind, because if there is retributive justice, he'll get AIDS from a transfusion, or one of his grandchildren will get it.” — Exchange on the July 8, 1995 Inside Washington, after Helms said the government spends too much on AIDS.

■ “I hope his wife feeds him lots of eggs and butter and he dies early like many black men do, of heart disease... He is an absolutely reprehensible person.” — USA Today columnist and Pacifica Radio talk show host Julianne Malveaux on Justice Clarence Thomas, November 4, 1994 PBS To the Contrary.

With talk like, are they surprised we carry guns?

P.S. Roy Sekoff said on Ed Schultz' show yesterday, "The energy and the dynamism is really with the Tea Party, but so is all the crazy and the outrage. And that's where the danger lies." This was AFTER the president did the right thing and said political discourse had nothing to with the shooting. The crazy was in the suspect's head, not the Tea Party.

Angle's remark was not incitement, but a foreshadowing of the possibilities prescribed for in our constitution intentionally.

With talk like, are they surprised we carry guns?Hello again, Steve:

So, you really think you can defeat the US? Let's pop that right wing fantasy right here.

The idea that your puny guns are somehow going to save the republic is LUDICROUS... Muskets in the hands of citizens, at some time in the past, were equal to the muskets in the hand of government. Ergo, the citizenry COULD have actually impressed their will on the government...

Uhhhh, not any more...

Your guns are for fun, self defense and shooting a politician or two. Sharron Angle said so.

excon

The idea that your puny guns are somehow going to save the republic is LUDICROUS... Muskets in the hands of citizens, at some time in the past, were equal to the muskets in the hand of government. Ergo, the citizenry COULD have actually impressed their will on the government....

Some guy named David managed with a sling shot.

Some guy named David managed with a sling shot.
Fiction.

Fiction.
I was going to say, only one opponent.

This from the same people who say that Afghans and Iraqi insurgents are beating the best army in the world.

this from the same people who say that Afghans and Iraqi insurgents are beating the best army in the world.
They aren't beating them right now, but they'll outlast and outnumber them.

Ditto... Wolverines!!

Fiction.

If it is then it's appropriate to discuss it with all this fiction about gun talk and right-wing rhetoric.

I was going to say, only one opponent.

In 1948, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq with a contingent from Saudi Arabia attacked Israel. How'd that work out for them?

By the way... Ex always uses the Heinlein quote about an armed society being a polite one.

Has anyone checked out gun ownership rates per capita in countries like Switzerland ,Finland ,or even Sweden ? There is no big hysteria about banning weapons in those nations ,and gun ownership is big in all 3 . The Swiss issue M-57 assault rifles to all men and require them to undergo military training . When they are discharged they keep their weapons . The government frequently sells surplus weapons to the population.

Political Pundits Surprisingly Good At Getting Inside Mentally Unbalanced Shooter's Head (http://www.theonion.com/articles/political-pundits-surprisingly-good-at-getting-ins,18817/)

January 14, 2011

NEW YORK—According to media analysts, the nation's TV commentators and political pundits have proved uncannily accurate when describing the deeply disturbed inner thoughts of accused Arizona gunman Jared Loughner. "It's strange, but when it comes to getting inside the mind of this human being who seems to possess no empathy, sense of morality, or hold on reality, and who is motivated only by personal animus and self-glorification, the nation's major political pundits have been amazingly adept," said Horizon Media analyst Bob Cullen, who has studied extensive tape of commentators on all major TV news programs and found their remarks on "what the killer is thinking" to be consistently thorough and detailed across the board. "It's almost as though they have some way of knowing, firsthand, exactly what this demented and highly dangerous individual with the eyes of millions upon him is going through." Researchers at Horizon Media also reported that a number of prominent TV pundits appeared to be mimicking the same chilling gleam in Loughner's eye for what they could only speculate was "dramatic effect."

Political Pundits Surprisingly Good At Getting Inside Mentally Unbalanced Shooter's Head (http://www.theonion.com/articles/political-pundits-surprisingly-good-at-getting-ins,18817/)

January 14, 2011

NEW YORK—According to media analysts, the nation's TV commentators and political pundits have proved uncannily accurate when describing the deeply disturbed inner thoughts of accused Arizona gunman Jared Loughner. "It's strange, but when it comes to getting inside the mind of this human being who seems to possess no empathy, sense of morality, or hold on reality, and who is motivated only by personal animus and self-glorification, the nation's major political pundits have been amazingly adept," said Horizon Media analyst Bob Cullen, who has studied extensive tape of commentators on all major TV news programs and found their remarks on "what the killer is thinking" to be consistently thorough and detailed across the board. "It's almost as though they have some way of knowing, firsthand, exactly what this demented and highly dangerous individual with the eyes of millions upon him is going through." Researchers at Horizon Media also reported that a number of prominent TV pundits appeared to be mimicking the exact same chilling gleam in Loughner's eye for what they could only speculate was "dramatic effect."



^^

Above article article is from a satire website.

There is no article above.

There is no article above.
The one you gave a link to and partially quoted from The Onion?

Sigh...

Sigh...
;)

Hello:

Can we get back to some incivility, please?

excon

Hello:

Can we get back to some incivility, please?

excon
:o

If there were a choice of a smilie with a tongue sticking out, I wudda used that.

OK, so what's up with Pelosi calling the massacre a "tragic accident?" Can't these darn liberals make up their mind what the hell is what?

Hello:

Can we get back to some incivility, please?

excon

How uncivil would you like it to be?

Up you nose with a rubber hose?

Would you like bruises with that?

Yellow liberal backstabbing procrastinator?

Suddenly; when they don't have the majority ,the Dems think it's a swell idea to co-mingle with the Republicans during the upcoming State of the Union Address.

Now that they don't have the majority they want to tone down the language and are calling on the Republicans to compromise .

Where was this new tone when the President told the Republicans in Congress "I won" when they wanted a seat at the table when crafting the 'stimulus 'package?

^^

Above article article is from a satire website.

Thanks for helping us out with the obvious.

Suddenly; when they don't have the majority ,the Dems think it's a swell idea to co-mingle with the Republicans during the upcoming State of the Union Address. Hello again, tom:

Screw co-mingling right along with civility. The problem is talk of gun play - not calling your neighbor an a$$hole. We should STOP the talk of gun play, but calling your neighbor an a$$hole is a wonderful idea. Having him sit next to you just means you don't have to yell it as loudly.

excon

Ban metaphors!! The politically correct demand it. I think POTUS should lead by example.

Where was this new tone when the President told the Republicans in Congress "I won" when they wanted a seat at the table when crafting the 'stimulus 'package?

Time to move on Tom. Politics has the unhappy habit of raking over the coals of past triumphs and defeats rather than moving on and bringing a fresh perspective to a problem. You have heard the word bipartisan, there is a place for such an approach at certain times even though it is not often applied in times of a clear majority. There is a somewhat foolish idea that the rhetoric and partisanism of an election campaign must be continued after the result instead of a cooperative effort to solve problems and implement solutions. This idea no doubt stems from british roots and is not only evident in your political arena but also in mine and it can culminate in the insane following through to do the unthinkable

Democrats talking about civility... boy that's a good one...


After 10 years of them blaming Bush for everything including their own Body odor... and their Incessant bashing of Sarah Palin for the AZ shooting, with ZERO evidence at all... and it does turn out it was a left leaning Right hating Lunatic that did it... which everyone knew on DAY one... but after all, the Democrats have never let the facts get in the way of slandering and Libeling everyone to the right of communist. Blood Libel is EXACTLY what the Democrats and their minions in the drive by media committed against her... by the very definition of that term.

Yeah... Civility... they need to look up the definition of the word... its clear they don't grasp its true meaning.

Yeah...Civility......they need to look up the definition of the word....its clear they don't grasp its true meaning.You mean like your posts? Is that a good example?

You mean like your posts? Is that a good example?

I give what I get... when I see real civility from the real left for a change... I might show some back. (I however am NOT holding my breath)

I give what I get......So only you are allowed to do that? Can others do that too? Would that be OK by you?

The Dems demonstrated their civility on the House floor today .

Democrat invokes Nazis to slam GOP on health care - On Politics: Covering the US Congress, Governors, and the 2012 Election - USATODAY.com (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/onpolitics/post/2011/01/steve-cohen-holocaust-health-care-blood-libel-/1)

But tom, he was taken out of context and "only about a minute of his 10-minute remarks mentioned Nazis and the Holocaust." :rolleyes:

I guess he also missed the parts about telling us if we liked our doctor and our insurance we could keep it, over and over and over we were told.

What's wrong with invoking nazis?

I have no problem with it .

But I'm not the one calling for civility .

I'm also not the one who made a big stink when Palin said the accusations against her, that putting surveyor signs on a map inspired the actions of the Az shooter, was a 'blood libel'.

I have no problem with it .
Good, another non-issue.


I'm also not the one who made a big stink when Palin said the accusations against her, that putting surveyor signs on a map inspired the actions of the Az shooter, was a 'blood libel'.Your support of her is puzzling. Most likely due to blind partisan support.

So only you are allowed to do that? Can others do that too? Would that be ok by you?

Hey... after 10 years of BS and flat out lies from the left... the Republicans are entitled to dish some of it back...

After WE give it to them for 10 more years... in the spirit of parity of course... then lets have the discussion.

Good, another non-issue.

Your support of her is puzzling. Most likely due to blind partisan support.

Much like your blind partizan support of the Messiah... and belief of anything your handlers in the DNC tell you to believe.


Incidentally... We are STILL waiting from any proof or apologies from ANY of the lefet wing loons and so called "Journalists" of ANYTHING that indicates the pot smoker shooter had ANY affiliations at all with any right leaning group at all...


When his own (the Arizona Shooter) internet rants were clearly far leftist... his readings were socilalist AND communist... and he has a publicly diseminated rant against Bush... you know... just like the majority of the left.

Totally absent ANY supporting evidence at all as usual.

And of course Arah Palin never uttered a single WORD.. until after 7 days of the democrats and the so called "Jounalists" accusing her of being at fault... again... completely lacking any shred of evidence... a true definition of a Blood Libel if there ever was one... strickingly identical to the NAZIS claims about the Jews...

And Sarah Palin has shown more Maturity... and class than Obama and the entire political left has combined, Particularly the last two weeks. And is far more deserving of respect than the fool at 1600 Pensylvania that's sucking up to the Chinese leader... likely asking for tips from the chinese on how to get away with violating the rights of people without that inconvienient obsticle to his agenda called the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.


And incidentally... if the right would have ANYTHING to do with shooting anyone... it wouldn't have been in Arizona with a Blue dog Democrat... it would have been someplace in California. But then, Republicans aren't into assainations... its lefties that do that.

Regans Shooter was a leftie... JFK's shooter was a lefty... So was Robert Kennediys and MLK's.

Totally absent ANY supporting evidence at all as usual..Hello again, smoothy:

I guess you missed my thread about Sharron Angel when she gave PERMISSION for shooters to take out politicians they didn't like... THAT'S evidence, but you don't care much about stuff like that...

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

I guess you missed my thread about Sharron Angel when she gave PERMISSION for shooters to take out politicians they didn't like.... THAT'S evidence, but you don't care much about stuff like that....

excon

I know this concept is difficult for a Democrat to grasp...


Show ANY proof the Shooter was not a leftie... as the actual evidence does prove. Show ANY tie to the right... at all... you can't there was none at all.

Otherwise you are blowing smoke out of your bunghole like the idiots that pretend to be journalists. Who are well aware they were violating Slander AND Libel laws... repeatedly. Some of them both at the same time.

Much like your blind partizan support of the Messiah...
Why do you write lies all the time? That just makes you look like an idiot.

Why do you write lies all the time? That just makes you look like an idiot.Look in the mirror before you start slinging names...

Hey... YOU are the one who made the comment first...

Show any shred of proof that Sarah Palin was not repeatedly slandered and Libels the last two weeks alone... and that she doesn't have grounds to sue them all and becone the richest Female in the USA.


Because... if it was me... lawsuits would be filed... and I'd be living a life of luxury at their expense from here on out.

Hello again, smoothy:

There's proof that he was a Sharron Angle fan.. He watched her videos ALL day... Sharron Angle said it's OK to SHOOT people if you don't agree with them... So, he did.

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

There's proof that he was a Sharron Angle fan.. He watched her videos ALL day... Sharron Angle said it's ok to SHOOT people if you don't agree with them.... So, he did.

exconExactly what body orifice did you pull that info from?


This nutcase has had a gripe against her, and has been stalking her.. (he was no fan of hers much less anyone else to her political right)... for LONGER than the TeaParty has existed... yet your fellow lefties that pretend to be journalists accused the Tea Party and Sarah Palin for being responsible for over 11 days now... we are still awaiting their admission that like most of their other so called news... was pulled out of their collective rectums. And awaiting the lefts apologies to All conservatives for their false claims, slander, Libel and defamation they have committed. And Specifically to Sarah Palin as most was directed at her specifically. Of course... that is assuming any of them have any self respect, or manners. We already know they ( the lefties in the drive by media circus) lack common sense or the ability to determine reality from fantasy..

Exactly what body orifice did you pull that info from?Hello again, smoothy:

The same place you pull yours from.

excon

The evidence is that the Kossaks said so .
Truth be told ,he so admirers Thomas Jefferson that he took Jefferson's words literally .

And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

Hello tom:

I'm a patriot. I'm a believer in Thomas Jefferson... What he said is right on... I have no problem taking up arms against the government...

But, if you attack unarmed civilians instead of the military, you're just another scumbag terrorist...

excon

What's the difference between Angle's comments and Jefferson's ?

Hello again, tom:

Jefferson was speaking in the abstract. He and I agree about the government... If one were influenced by Jefferson, one would attack an army base.

But, Angle was speaking about a specific race, and a specific person, and the things somebody could specifically DO to that person IF they didn't like the outcome of the race. If one were influenced by Angle, one would shoot politicians.

excon

The evidence is that the Kossaks said so .
Truth be told ,he so admirers Thomas Jefferson that he took Jefferson's words literally .

And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

That is certainly manure

Ex , The Jeffersonians and Jefferson himself were admirers of the French Revolution.Many of them had replicas of guillotines that they kept on their desks and book shelves .

Jefferson did literally mean what he said in the quote. You speak of the loss of innocence .But Jefferson defended the loss during the French Revolution saying in his famous 'Adam and Eve letter '


It was necessary to use the arm of the people, a machine not quite so blind as balls and bombs, but blind to a certain degree. A few of their cordial friends met at their hands, the fate of enemies. But time and truth will rescue and embalm their memories, while their posterity will be enjoying that very liberty for which they would never have hesitated to offer up their lives. The liberty of the whole earth was depending on the issue of the contest, and was ever such a prize won with so little innocent blood? My own affections have been deeply wounded by some of the martyrs to this cause, but rather than it should have failed, I would have seen half the earth desolated. Were there but an Adam and an Eve left in every country, and left free, it would be better than as it now is.

Nothing abstract in that .

Hello again, smoothy:

The same place you pull yours from.

excon

Really... What I said has already been proven... and its on video from the stoners ex-college clasmates and people that knew him... but the lefty slanderers and Libelers didn't present it because it showed what liars and hypocrites they were... YOUR claims and theirs however have had zero proof put forth.


Huge difference there... What I said is proven, and has been so publicly since it happened... what YOU said is pure propaganda, and no proof has yet been presented to anyone...

What I said has already been proven.....and its on video from the stoners ex-college clasmates adn people that knew himCould you link us to that post please?

Could you link us to that post please?

Google fox news and the Arizona Shooting and the lunatic shooters name... read it from the source and you can't make the claims it was edited. But then... you won't believe that either will you? The Party will exile anyone who believes anything other than what the party tells them to believe. Like under Chairman Mao.

Incidentally... present proof the shooter, had ANY right leanings... and that ANYONE on the right had any contributions at all in this matter.


The Lunatic hated this woman over an issue the leftist propaganda machine never published... and that she wasn't left wing enough to suit him.

And Again... since Sarah Palin SPecifically was Slandered and Libels by the DNC proaganda machine... present any proof to the claims made by the lefty so-called "Journalists" . Because they have shown... they have as much a grasp or Reality as Dan Rather did... and rather manufacture a false news story than actually report on reality.


Come on now... just say what you have been trained to say... Its really George Bushes fault...

So you can't link to any proof then. Thanks for playing.

<like shooting fish in a barrel>

Google fox news and the Arizona Shooting and the lunatic shooters name.....Hello again, smoothy:

In other words, you pulled it out of your a$$.

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

In other words, you pulled it out of your a$$.

excon

Prove FOX was wrong then... they presented EVIDENCE... I'm sure you know what that is... exactly what evidence is there that backs anything the left
Have been spewing.



I suppose you still Believe Dan Rather even after it was definatively proven that evidence he used was a fabrication too?

Prove FOX was wrong then....they presented EVIDENCE...
So, link us to it.

I don't know what we are trying to prove. I posted this link on the Jesse Ventura OP because that is where I think his mind was at .

Jared Loughner's friend says suspect 'Did not watch TV … disliked the news' - TVNewser (http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/jared-loughners-friend-says-suspect-did-not-watch-tv-disliked-the-news_b48040)

He was also a big fan of that net movie that was popular on these pages a while ago called 'Zeitgeist' .

I can also point out that it may have been his education that drove him off the deep end . He attended a school system that used an interesting curriculum .

Loughner attended Mountain View H.S. part of Arizona's Morana Unified School District.
The school utilized a curriculum called 'the Small Schools Workshop '.
About Us | Small Schools Workshop (http://smallschoolsworkshop.wordpress.com/about/)

The Small School Workshop was developed in Chicago by Mike Klonsky ,who is currently it's director .

Who is Mike Klonsky ? Klonsky in the late 1960s was the national secretary of 'Students for a Democratic Society' which also had William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn .They later broke away from the group to form the terrorist Weather Underground. Klonsky left and eventually became a leader of the 'New Communist Movement' .While in the Communist movement he was one of the U.S. political activists who visited the People's Republic of China to seek the endorsement of Communist China for a political party he had helped establish in the United States, the Communist Party (Marxist-Leninist).
In his book “Revolution in the Air,” Max Elbaum said that the Chinese hailed Klonsky and effectively recognized his party as the official US Maoist party.
Klonsky claims to have become critical of Marxist dogma since although there are other reports that his real disillusion was in the Chinese market reforms post-Mao .

He reunited with Ayers in 1991 to start up the 'Small School Workshop' which was originally associated with the University of Illinois in Chicago where Klonsky and Ayers both taught .It was funded by the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. Later in the decade Ayers recruited Barack Obama to run the Annenberg Challenge. Obama in that role continued to support the Small School Workshop which provides the curriculum called Smaller Learning Communities that is used at Mountain View H.S.

Loughner attended there until he dropped out his senior year.

Loughner according to fellow students holds extreme leftist tendencies .His Youtube rants reveal someone who has a streak of anarchist leanings in him. It appears Ayers and Klonsky found a willing pupil .

Mother Jones interviewed a friend of Loughner . He says that Loughner held a years-long grudge against Giffords and had repeatedly derided her as a "fake." This grudge began long before Palin entered the national scene and intensified after he attended a "Congress in Your Corner" event hosted by Giffords in 2007.

"He told me that she opened up the floor for questions and he asked a question. The question was, 'What is government if words have no meaning?'"
"He said, 'Can you believe it, they wouldn't answer my question.' Ever since that, he thought she was fake, he had something against her."Giffords' answer, whatever it was, didn't satisfy Loughner. [I]"He said, 'Can you believe it, they wouldn't answer my question,' and I told him, 'Dude, no one's going to answer that,'" Tierney recalls. "Ever since that, he thought she was fake, he had something against her."http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/jared-lee-loughner-friend-voicemail-phone-message?page=1

He attended a school system that used an interesting curriculum .

Loughner attended Mountain View H.S. ,part of Arizona's Morana Unified School District.
The school utilized a curriculum called 'the Small Schools Workshop '.
About Us | Small Schools Workshop (http://smallschoolsworkshop.wordpress.com/about/)
Sounds like a good program, what issue do you have with it?

Oh I don't know... I guess I naturally get suspcious when a Maoists sets the indoctination program for the youth of America.

Maybe because this radical of the 1960s who wanted to destroy the country is quoted as saying

“We’ve learned how to work within the system,” ....“The fight to save and improve public education embodies all the issues we were fighting for back then.”

oh I don't know ...I guess I naturally get suspcious when a Maoists sets the indoctination program for the youth of America.
LOL!
Nothing like running on emotion responses 24/7. Must be exhausting.
Of course you have no issue with the religious indoctrination of children do you? Haha.

There is no religious indoctrination in public schools.

There is no religious indoctrination in public schools.
And there is no "maoist" indoctrination in public schools.

Do you even know what Maoism is?

Marxism-Leninism as interpreted by Mao Tse-tung: distinguished by its theory of guerrilla warfare and its emphasis on the revolutionary potential of the peasantry Seems it's you that advocates revolution of the peasantry, such as your post here:
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/current-events/civility-screw-civility-543819-8.html#post2675543

So, link us to it.

You can use Google... Just enter fox... most of page one will deal with it. Plenty of proof even without FOX... the facts are not hard to find... except on any liberal so-called-news outlet where they believe reality is what they say it is.

After all... you would dismiss anything Fox proves... but you accept the Messiahs word he actually attended College and got good grades when nobody has ever seen any proof he even attended, much less graduated or got passing grades much less outstanding ones.

And you believe anything the DNC commands you to believe... absent any proof any of it has any basis in reality.

Smoothy fails again.

I know who Mao was and I know what his philosophy produced... 20 million dead Chinese .

So we have some guy who admires the collective nightmare called the 'Cultural Revolution' designing curriculum for our children... gee swell !

And you're preaching the same thing because you want some dead americans, preferably liberals.

Hello again,

Instead of YOUR wild tangent, let's do mine... I have it on good authority that it was the dry Arizono heat... He also read Ayn Rand. He's a right winger on dry heat... That's a dangerous combination.

excon

When did I say that ? I quoted Jefferson only in the context that Ex was using Angle's quote.

As I have noted before ,Jefferson for a variety of reasons ,was my favorite founder.

Isn't hyperbole fun? I'm learning so fun from the right-wingers on this site!

And still contributing nothing to the discussion.

and still contributing nothing to the discussion.I keep having fun by correcting the disinformation you post. It's a full-time job!

Smoothy fails again.

Really... in your narrow mind... liberals need no proof of facts... and Conservatives can not provide enough proof of facts...

A Liberals reality is only what the Party tells them it is... typical of a good communist. Mao tought you all well.


The Lefties have NOT presented one shred of evidence backing up their claims anyone on the political right had anything to so with the AZ shooting...

No lefty... reality disabled lefty reporter has proven anything they have claimed...

THat makes them liars... and in fact it rises to the level of criminal behaviour.

And anyone who supports them are no better.


PROVE those claims first... THEN I might consider taking time out of my day to prove hwat I said... because I demanded that proof first... so put up or shut up.

I keep having fun by correcting the disinformation you post. It's a full-time job!

Really hard in your personal fantasy world were everything changes by the minute isn't it? If you moved to the real world (the world of reality vs Fantasy) you might see where your problem lies.

Really hard in your personal fantasy world were everything changes by the minute isn't it? If you moved to the real world (the world of reality vs Fantasy) you might see where your problem lies.Haha, you're funny, I like your stuff.

A Liberals reality is only what the Party tells them it is......typical of a good communist. Mao tought you all well.


.

Now let me see what does my little red book say about that?

The Democrat party is clearly looking to get a protected status by collectively claiming they ALL suffer from a severe reality deficiency. And suffer from a serious case of Truth Adversion.


Because they are totally clueless about reality and facts... and have absolutely no desire to deal with anything that approaches reality or truth.

THey live in their own little world just like schiizophrenics do... only The Dems do it by choice.