My boss sits in the lobby and is on her laptop all day, enjoying Facebook and other games but she does not want other employees to cell phones and ipods... As the cook, I know that there is a radio we can listen to but not an iPod. I have children so what if they need to get in touch with me? Is this legal for our boss to dock our pay? We work on hourly pay in the state of PA.

Depending on exactly the size of the business and the type of work you do... it can be yes. The boss sets the rules of the business place. THey can't dock you for just having it... but they can dock you for using it when you aren't on break. As you said... you are paid hourly for work... not being paid to talk on the cell phone... and really, just how many calls are so important they can't wait... really?

I can see the no iPod rule... the Kitchen can be a dangerous place... made more dangerous if you can't hear everything because of having earphones in... or distracted by a phone call... and nobody can talk on the phone and devote their full attention to any other voluntary task... (except breathing) without the other being negatively affected. A background radio doesn't pose the same distraction.

To add to Smoothy's comment... the boss is a hypocrite, a jerk, unfair, and whatever else you want to call her... but, she is the boss and can set rules that are as unfair as she wants. That is clearly something that eats at you (as noted in the question) but it is a fact of life.

I'm not even so sure the boss is a jerk, if she owns the company. Who knows how many hours she puts all week; most owners work 80 or so.
Saying no cell calls is no different than saying no calls may be received at work on the company phones. Cell phones weren't even common until about 15 years ago. Parents didn't talk to their kids - at all. With teachers, grandparents, older kids, and babysitters, you were expected to have them cared for without you.
Work is for working.

I am Canadian and the laws may be different here. It is illegal for an employer to dock your pay for any reason. Your employer can however dock any bonus money you might get, but they cannot touch regular pay. Try find the Fair Labor Standards Act for Pennsylvania and see what they say.

I was conceeding to the OP that whatever feelings they might have for the boss... it is irrelevant, the boss is the boss. I note that some posters get wrapped up in the emotion and lose sight of the question.

RB--excellent point, I don't know if in PA they can dock your pay... they could certainly discipline you, but as for taking money awy, I don't know... and certainly if the docking dropped you below the minimum wage (working in a kitchen? Maybe) that would be a violation of federal law.

I am Canadian and the laws may be different here. It is illegal for an employer to dock your pay for any reason. Your employer can however dock any bonus money you might get, but they cannot touch regular pay. Try find the Fair Labor Standards Act for Pennsylvania and see what they say.

But is the employer actually docking pay? If the employee spends time on personal calls, that time is not being spent working. So the employer could simply not count that time as working time.

But even if the employer is not allowed to dock pay, the employee can be written for violating the rules.

But they certainly can't do anything just for having the phone on them.

I'm not even so sure the boss is a jerk, if she owns the company. Who knows how many hours she puts all week; most owners work 80 or so.
Saying no cell calls is no different than saying no calls may be received at work on the company phones. Cell phones weren't even common til about 15 years ago. Parents didn't talk to their kids - at all. With teachers, grandparents, older kids, and babysitters, you were expected to have them cared for without you.
Work is for working.I'll agree, I have several friends that own their own restaurants (Plural, actually 6 different restaurants). As the owner their pay is purely based on the profits after all expenses are paid out for the week. And most of them put a LOT of hours in as you said. And in this poor economy, their daily till ammounts are down from what they were several years ago. But their payroll is still the same and total costs are up.

They can dock you if you are late... they can dock you if you aren't back from break or lunch on time. They do work on a fairly slim profit margin that can easily be tipped into a loss by only one person not pulling their full weight.

And if they feel you are not pulling your weight, or causing problems... they can send you packing. Particularly in this economy, there are plenty of people willing to work.

Hate to have to say it... but Choose your battles carefully or you might find yourself among the hordes of unemployed pretty quickly. Try and butt heads with the owner and you are going to lose.

Is this legal for our boss to dock our pay? We work on hourly pay in the state of PA.Hello l:

No, he CANNOT dock your pay... He can WARN you. He can WRITE you up. He can FIRE you. He can YELL at you. He can MAKE you clean the restrooms...

But, he CANNOT take your money.

The problem you have, is what you're going to DO about it. If you complain, he'll fire you. I'd just obey the rules. Seems like a lot easier than fighting your boss.

excon

Though with 99 or is it 95 weeks of unemployment now... who knows maybe getting fired isn't such a bad thing anymore...

They can dock you if you are late...they can dock you if you aren't back from break or lunch on time.

I think we need to careful about terms here. Docking someone's pay means to take back pay they they have earned. Generally that is not legal. However, an employer may reduce an employee's paycheck in certain circumstances. If an hourly employee spends time that they were supposed to be working as non working then the pay may be reduced.

I think we need to careful about terms here. Docking someone's pay means to take back pay they they have earned. Generally that is not legal. However, an employer may reduce an employee's paycheck in certain circumstances. If an hourly employee spends time that they were supposed to be working as non working then the pay may be reduced.

Exact circumstances as you said can swing that either way... I have worked for employers in PA in the past where that was done. Quite openly in fact. Where I work at NOW in fact docked you an hours pay if you were even 5 minutes late. And they got away with it legally. The Union would not have rolled over if it was illegal. And it's a big well known, union... famous in fact.

Because if they are on a time clock... if they weren't actually working, they didn't earn that money. It ammounted to falsification, because they were supposed to be working or clocked out. So its more of a correction than taking of anything they earned.

But point taken... semantics are important. There is a lot of guessing going on here.

I have worked for employers in PA in the past where that was done. Quite openly in fact. Hello smoothy:

Boss's steal until they're stopped. Hopefully, the OP will STOP this crook. I don't know why you didn't stop yours.

excon

Hello smoothy:

Boss's steal until they're stopped. Hopefully, the OP will STOP this crook. I dunno why you didn't stop yours.

excon

So... you are telling the International Brotherhood of Teamsters Union lawyers would miss something like that? Because their lawyers determined it to be within the law and rights of the Employer... at least as applied where I worked. Which is the point of reference I am using.

And in fact its codified in the contracts... not just verbally passed on.

At Will employees have fewer protections.

So....you are telling the The Teamsters Union lawyers would miss that? Hello again, smoothy:

Union a$$holes will steal until they're stopped. I hope you stopped yours.

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

Union a$$holes will steal until they're stopped. I hope you stopped yours.

excon

I'll be the first to say... they have their good points and bad points.

On the average... they've had more good than bad over the years from my perspective. And there once was a time I never thought I would say that. Being I spent years NOT working in a Union before I was in one.

But they are very much up on NOT allowing employers to pull bogus and dumb tricks to get rid of someone... and I've seen that happen over the years as well.

I don't argue Scotts point of semantics... because rarely is everything in absolute black or white. Just that this IS allowed in certain circumstances. The Union lawyers would not allow something patently illegal to be imposed like that.

Just that this IS allowed in certain circumstances. The Union lawyers would not allow something patently illegal to be imposed like that.Hello again, smoothy:

So, just how much money CAN an employer dock somebody? How much money is an infraction worth? 15 minutes?? An hour? A half a day?? Are you telling me, that it's just hunky dory with the union, when an employer ARBITRARILY decides how much money an infraction should COST the employee, forgetting that the employer puts that money directly INTO HIS OWN POCKET??

If the union allowed the employer to RIP his employees off like that, I suggest they were corrupt, and should be STOPPED.

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

So, just how much CAN an employer dock somebody? How much money is an infraction worth?? 15 minutes??? An hour? A half a day??? Are you telling me, that it's just hunky dory with the union when an employer ARBITRARILY decides how much money an infraction should COST the employee, forgetting, that the employer puts that money directly INTO HIS OWN POCKET???

If the union allowed the employer to RIP his employees off like that, I suggest they were corrupt, and you should have STOPPED them.

excon

IN my experience... each infraction was limited to a hour, max... if it occurred enough it was grounds for termination. And yeah... that has happened... thats how the opening occurred for the job I have now. So it is enforcible. Even in DC that is NOT a right to work state as Virginia is for example..

And where I work... one hour being docked would be the same as 4 or more hours pay for them not knowing their real wage in terms of dollars.

Simply avoided... show up on time... and limit calls to breaks. Then there would be no issue.

You want to stop it... than you are going to have to prove they can't... because as a business owner... they have already vetted it with their lawyer(s). Tough to do when you are fired, and can't produce statues that prohibit it that apply in your case.

What you do on YOUR time... is one thing... if you are doing it when you are on THEIR dime... thats another. What statutes require an employer to pay for an hourly empoyees way while he is engaged in personal business? That's theft of time... since time is money, that's equal to skimming the till, or stealing inventory. If they clocked out and stepped outside to take calls, then it would be a non-issue. Have I ever been docked... yes, Once, learned my lesson and didn't do it again.

Do I personally think its on the petty side... yes, but then I'm not an unskilled laborer that's far easier to replace. I'm a highly skilled College Graduate that does high value work, and a skill set that takes decades to earn. And I've taken pains to avoid the Petty employers over the years... and yes there are a lot of them.

But its not about what I think or you think. That's the sort of things that get people fired every day.

I work for a company in VA. VA is an "at will" state. I can give you two examples of times we "docked" pay for employees and both were legal.

1. Retail store manager was told specifically by owner not to do something (can't remember specifics now) due to risk it may cost company money. Manager did it anyway. Cost company $1500. Owner reduced her pay to minimum wage until the amount was "paid back" from her wages. After that her pay was returned to what it was before the incident.

2. Had an operator come in the office and clock in at her appropriate time. (Our company pays an attendance bonus.) Security video showed her clock in then immediately leave the building. She returns 15 minutes later with a BK bag, comes in the office and eats her breakfast then actually gets on the phones 40 minutes later. That 40 minutes was removed from her timeclock and she lost her attendance bonus.

Unfair? Had it been my decision, I would have fired them both. Boss is a softy.

Someone made mention that unemployment is easier. Please remember you have to qualify for the unemployment - meaning you did nothing by your behavior to get you fired. If the OP chooses to carry and use the cell phone they are in direct violation of the company policy and risk getting fired and not qualifying for unemployment. A quick Google check says PA is an "at will" state, too.

Choose your battle carefully.

Can you be docked the time you are not working, if you are talking on a cell phone or playing games on the internet, yes you can.

Can you be given warnings or fired for not following the rules, yes you can.

In an emergancy family call where you work, the main office, tell them about the emergancy and they tell you.

You keep a cell phone put away and silent and only use it during breaks or lunch.

I worked for a company may years ago, that had people with stop watches timing you to see how much time you spent in the bathroom, if you took a smoke break how long you were away from work and more

I can give you two examples of times we "docked" pay for employees and both were legal.

1. Owner reduced her pay to minimum wage

I think that is the key to what made this legal. If, instead, the owner took an amount from each pay check, that would not have been legal.

2. That 40 minutes was removed from her timeclock and she lost her attendance bonus.

This is perfectly legal

But it would not be legal to dock an employee's pay simply for carrying a cell phone. On the other hand, if it was company policy against carrying them, the employee could be fired.

Hello E:

In both instances you mention, NO money was taken from people who earned it, and lost it for committing an offense.

In the first instance, in an at will state, the employer can adjust the wage of any employee at anytime for any reason. That ISN'T taking money that was already earned.. It's a sneaky way to get paid back, and I would never have put up with it... Certainly, managers cannot be held liable for the losses of the company. I'm NOT sure that this person would have lost a lawsuit if they had filed...

In the second instance, the employee never earned the money. In fact, HE'S the cheater and he got caught.

excon

They didn't EARN that money yapping on the Cell phone... Falsifying timesheet stating they were actually working when they weren't.

If they were OFF the time clock... I'd buy that argument. Not when they are on it however.

You aren't entitled under any law to use employers time conducting personal business.

Be it a cell phone... surfing porn sites on the office computer, buying stuff on eBay during business hours. Those are all fireable offences, people have been fired, and many times HAVE been docked.

Just because some employers don't make a big stink... doesn't make it a right or an entitlement.

Hello again, smoothy:

I think you missed something... In Emland's example, the first person made a management decision he was told not to make, and the second guy simply lied about his time... None of these people were yapping on the phone...

excon

Hello again, smoothy:

I think you missed something... In Emland's example, the first person made a management decision he was told not to make, and the second guy simply lied about his time... None of these people were yapping on the phone...

excon

I saw Emlands thread... hate to tell you... that happens ALL the time in the business world. Managers have a lot to answer for... more than the average peon does. Many are not all that well paid either. I knew a guy that was a Store Manager of a busy Eat and Park... he made less than 1/2 what I make and he worked double the hours. He now works in the corporate office, same pay, fewer hours. Not only can you get docked... they can fire you as manager for nearly any reason... even sales dropping off, if it was your fault or not. You know what they say about thankless jobs.

The OP Yapping on the phone on company time, IS lying about his time. Because he has to clock out to do that... and if he yapps on the phone while NOT clocked out... then he's lying about working, and they are making such a stink about it... its obvious they do it more than once or twice a day. And being so close to my restaurant owning friends... I know the crap they deal with... people that show up when they feel like it, some when they do show up spend all their time on the cell phone if they were allowed to.

And all of them have in fact docked... and fired people for doing that. There are plenty of people looking for work... that will work, why deal with people that expect to be paid while they yap with their friends.

And the Unemployment rate HERE is less than 1/2 what it is many places, and a 1/4 what it is some places and they still can do it and find people easily. There is no place in PA that has unemployment rates so low the low wage warm bodies dictate business policy.

I'm a native Pennsylvanian... I know the work Dynamic all to well around there. I'm not that far physically... or detached as I have a large number of relatives there, and friends, and I am there frequently enough. Even when times were great... jobs weren't exactly plentiful.

I'm surprised the OP seems willing to risk his job over such an issue. And working in a restaurant... I really doubt he could pay a lawyer to make an issue of it.

And as a point of note... I DID work in a restaurant for a summer when I was in College. I know its not easy work, or in most cases very well paid either.

I think this discussion has run its course. Lets wait to see if the OP returns before we continue this.