Will Red Julia Gillard form a government in Aussie by forming a coalition with the Greens ?

And if she does ,will she pull the already leftist Labour party further left and adopt some of the Greens positions like breaking ties with the US, closing uranium mines, dismantling the nuke reactor and a return to 1911?

Or have the Greens sucked enough wind out of Red Julia's sails that Tony Abbott and the Liberals (aka the conservatives ) will be able to forge an alliance with the Independents and save the country from Labour's follies ?

Australian Elections Explained (http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/australian-elections-explained/)

Will Red Julia Gillard form a government in Aussie by forming a coalition with the Greens ?

And if she does ,will she pull the already leftist Labour party further left and adopt some of the Greens positions like breaking ties with the US, closing uranium mines, dismantling the nuke reactor and a return to 1911?

Or have the Greens sucked enough wind out of Red Julia's sails that Tony Abbott and the Liberals (aka the conservatives ) will be able to forge an alliance with the Independents and save the country from Labour's follies ?


Hi Tom,

If we think back before the election 'Red' Kevin had something like a twenty seat majority in the House of Reps. Now 'Red' Julia has approximately the same number of seats as 'the conservatives'

I am just wonder why two political parties which represent such extreme views would attract approximately the same number of votes on a two party preferred basis?

Is there something wrong with the Australian public? Or, is it the case there is no 'great divide' in Australian politics? The independents which have particular political positions in relation to left and right have always had a working relationship. This was evident in the previous parliament. The talk between the independents suggests that nothing will change in terms of working relationship despite the fact that one of the 'independents' is Green.

Tom, I think you are trying to compare American politics to Australian politics. There is no comparison.

Regards

Tut

Yes I am . This is interesting to me . The way I see it there is a Green and Croc Dundee Mad Max and Steve Erwin from the Outback ,and they will throw their loyalty to the party that can bring broad band to the Outback asap.
Am I right so far ?

From what I am reading and hearing ,this is as unprecedented in Aussie politics as Florida 2000 was for us.

No matter who wins ,the experts I've been listening to are prediciting a new election within the year.

The good thing that is coming out of this is the repudiation of ultra-Keynesian stimulus and squeezing tax revenues out of every rock. KRudd took a clear majority and squandered it .

I like what I see of Abbott . He's a surfer dude . Who better to give it a go ?

yes I am . This is interesting to me . The way I see it there is a Green and Croc Dundee Mad Max and Steve Erwin from the Outback ,and they will throw their loyalty to the party that can bring broad band to the Outback asap.
Am I right so far ?

From what I am reading and hearing ,this is as unprecedented in Aussie politics as Florida 2000 was for us.

No matter who wins ,the experts I've been listening to are prediciting a new election within the year.

The good thing that is coming out of this is the repudiation of ultra-Keynesian stimulus and squeezing tax revenues out of every rock. KRudd took a clear majority and squandered it .

I like what I see of Abbott . He's a surfer dude . Who better to give it a go ?


Hi Tom,

Believe it or not Australia is not an isolated outpost missing from the civilized world. Take no notice of Mad Max and Croc Dundee movies. We are not all uneducated. We have equity in education and health care. This is why we try and squeeze tax revenue out of every rock.

This is probably why American politics is so different to Australian politics. No government in the right mind ( left or right) would try and do away with universal health care.

Another election within the year? You could be right.

Regards

Tut

We are not all uneducated. We have equity in education and health care. This is why we try and squeeze tax revenue out of every rock.


From what I hear the miners had a slightly different view, and that is why KRudd is bitterly crying about assassination today.

From what I hear the miners had a slightly different view, and that is why KRudd is bitterly crying about assassination today.


Hi again Tom,

I assume you are talking about "squeezing tax dollars", not education and health.

Generally speaking Australians don't mind tax dollars going into such things as health care.
I can't speak for every miner but it seems as though the main problem was loss of jobs rather than tax dollars going into government programms. Provided of course these programms are seen to be responsible.


Tut

Will Red Julia Gillard form a government in Aussie by forming a coalition with the Greens ?

And if she does ,will she pull the already leftist Labour party further left and adopt some of the Greens positions like breaking ties with the US, closing uranium mines, dismantling the nuke reactor and a return to 1911?

Or have the Greens sucked enough wind out of Red Julia's sails that Tony Abbott and the Liberals (aka the conservatives ) will be able to forge an alliance with the Independents and save the country from Labour's follies ?

Hello tom I think the answer to most of this is no although I wouldn't doubt her agenda would have to be more "green" such as implementing the ETS and putting a tax on carbon.

Let's try to put this in perspective there is one green member in the House of Reps so the help the greens can give is very limited. Gillard will need the help of some very rabid and some what right wing independents including the toxic Bobcat (Katter) who is a loose cannon I could see the bobcat signing on out of spite and then going back to his independent stance as soon as there is something he doesn't like which could quite easily be an ETS

Here are some thoughts Julia Gillard 'trashing' system with Treasury plan, say Tony Abbott | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/julia-gillard-trashing-system-with-treasury-plan-say-tony-abbott/story-fn5tas5k-1225910275520)

The fact is the independents supporting Gillard is a sure fire death wish at the next election, these guys exist in what are otherwise super conservative electorates current state of play 71 seats each with 76 required for a majority a poll says 55% want them to support the coalition

I like what I see of Abbott . He's a surfer dude . Who better to give it a go ?
Hey Tom you got that wrong he's the life saver type, body surfer, triathelon and general all round over achiever, not a laid back bone in his body
But
I'll agree with you I'd rather give the mad monk a go than the little red fox, I don't trust her and let's forget likening bobcat to any of our outback heroes, I think bobcat is like that character in the west wing, can't remember his name , Bob, I think, they gave him the VP job as a compromise to knoble the President

This is what happens when you get a little power Bobcat has decided that now that he has the power we might as well redraw the map and include the Kimberly in the Northern Territory. No doubt this new land and bigger state will be called Katter and he will be declared king.

Broome should be part of Northern Territory, independent MP Bob Katter says | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/national/broome-should-be-part-of-northern-territory-independent-mp-bob-katter-says/story-e6frfkvr-1225910580806He) Katter could then be the member of two electorates, Katter and Kennedy both very remote places where the hats are big and the sheep few and brains even fewer. I expect the next we will hear from Bobcat is we turn the waters of the Ord inland and create the inland sea, thereby eliminating the problem of linking his present electorate with his new electorate; strategic thinker this Bobcat

I like him already . He wears a cowboy hat .

What he is proposing looks like what we call gerrymandering .

I'm still learning your system . The Tasmanian Devil Andrew Wilkie is a Green or an Independent ? I've read reports calling him both. From here it looks like he will be the king/queen maker and will have an inordinate amt of power in that he could make or destroy the minority government regardless of which party wins.

I like him already . He wears a cowboy hat .

What he is proposing looks like what we call gerrymandering .

I'm still learning your system . The Tasmanian Devil Andrew Wilkie is a Green or an Independant ? I've read reports calling him both. From here it looks like he will be the king/queen maker and will have an inordinate amt of power in that he could make or destroy the minority government regardless of which party wins.

No, Tom, Wilkie is the whistleblower ex spy independent who rained on the Iraq War parade and therefore doesn't like the Liberals. He would naturally side with Labor. He was a Greens candidate in the 2007 election but obviously thinks he can do better on his own. Tassie is a pecular place full of tree huggers and radicals like Bob Browne leader of the Greens, sort of like your Alaska. The whole problem here is that the little red fox can't keep support together and has lost two seats to minorities as well as a number to the Liberals. At state level Tassie is a mess with a minority government sort of reflecting the federal problem.


As to Bobcat's proposal, no, what he is proposing is excising a vast mineral rich and sparsely populated territory from another state. Katter isn't representing either of these places. This wouldn't add any seats to the parliament and as the population is aboriginal wouldn't change the support base. Gerrymandering is changing electoral boundries to move support in your favor we had plenty of that in this election with many seats made marginal which favoured the Labor Party but the shift in support overwhelmed it. Wearing a hat like that here places you on the fringe, we have a saying, the bigger the hat the less the sheep or in other words; just a poser

I see comparisons to the recent US election cycles .In our case the wings are political movements within the parties .
In your case fringe groups slap the label party on themselves ,and their affect is the same on a divided nation. They have an inordinate and disproportional influence.

I see comparisons to the recent US election cycles .In our case the wings are political movements within the parties .
In your case fringe groups slap the label party on themselves ,and there affect is the same on a divided nation. They have an inordinate and disproportional influence.

That's why they do it. The wings you speak of we call factions, the Labor Party has a number of them, whereas the right side of politics here has separate parties but we also have independents usually people who were first elected under a party label and have fallen out with the party machine and as we say; gone to sit on the cross benches. The Greens are too radical even for the Labor Party. Some of our parties are splinter groups mainly Labor offshoots. The preferential voting system allows these groups to develop whereas your system eliminates them quickly and pushes people into your major parties

Because of proportional representation in the Senate there are miriad candidates and minor parties, usually we see three or four emerge, the three major Parties and one minor like the Greens and more rarely one or two others, these are people with a narrow agenda
http://images.smh.com.au/2010/08/26/1858637/270810-shakespeare-420x0.jpg

What is the holdup in determining the winner ?

From the way I read it ,it is in the independent's best interests to choose a side while they have some influence. If they play their hand wrong there will be new elections and no one will give them the time of day . Correct ?

What is the holdup in determining the winner ?

From the way I read it ,it is in the independent's best interests to choose a side while they have some influence. If they play their hand wrong there will be new elections and no one will give them the time of day . correct ?

I don't see it that way. The electorate is almost perfectly split on a two party preferred basis. 300 votes difference at this time. Independents and minor parties have been an important part of political life for a long time. This time they have greater influence and after July 1 there may be a greater problem. The major parties don't want to go back to a second election because it's possible Labor will be punished even further. The possibility of blood letting in Labor is high if they don't get government. The little red fox could be out on her ear overnight. We had a big informal vote and that's unlikely second time around. There was a big protest vote here in favour of the Greens so those votes could go back to labor without altering the result. This is the problem of preferential voting, one or two percent can produce a huge change and the loss of a seat is crucial now. You are looking at a situation where only 80% of the vote is counted so a few seats could swing yet
Labor 37.8% -5.6% 72
Coalition 44.2% +2.1% 73
Greens 11.5% +3.8% 1
Others 6.5% -0.2% 4
http://www.smh.com.au/business/what-happens-next-in-canberra-75-all-20100831-14b1b.html

The parties getting rough
'No Andrew Wilkies' in Bob Katter's wishlist for Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott | (http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/no-andrew-wilkies-in-bob-katters-wishlist-for-julia-gillard-and-tony-abbott/story-fn5tas5k-1225913682259)
Australia now has a North South divide which will make the independents decision interesting

Not sure you recall the Florida vote in the 2000 elections here. The longer it goes on ,the more contentious it becomes.

So far you don't have demonstrations and court challenges.

No Tom we are fairly civilised here and somewhat bemused

http://resources3.news.com.au/images/2010/09/07/1225915/080895-news-image-jon-kudelka-cartoon.jpg

The little red fox has survived to lead the next government with a clear statement from the king, or is it queen maker, that this is not a mandate but maintaining supply to an existing government. What will we get well certainly no fillabusters, and a lot less BS from the government, harder working politicians, but sadly we 'll get a mining tax, we will get an ETS, we will get more boats and we will get more of the same incompetent government!

In the words of our indigenous inhabitants "poor fella, my country"

What is the quid pro quo that swung the independent support her way ?

My guess is that it is a promise that won't be kept.

what is the quid pro quo that swung the independent support her way ?

My guess is that it is a promise that won't be kept.

Big promises for country areas and they made it plain in their speeches, if they get screwed so does Julia. The only way legislation gets up is if these guys support it, the deal includes supply but everything else is by negotiation, but it still has to get through the Senate and there the equation and the partners are different. Left leaning rights in the house and radical left in the Senate.

The concessions they already have are spectacular including no time for BS in question time, no fillibusters, longer sessions, and pairing so that they can be absent and the balance isn't disturbed, and indepth review process before the bill gets to the vote, attention to members private bills, time to discuss regional issues and generally curtailing the merrygo round of blame and shame. They have a package of expenditure in regional areas so it will be apparent very quickly if the fox reniges

What I don't get here is the coalition had more seats and 700,000 more votes and these bast@rds had the hide to endorse the sitting government, these turncoats will pay dearly next time around

What I don't get here is the coalition had more seats and 700,000 more votes and these bast@rds had the hide to endorse the sitting government, these turncoats will pay dearly next time around
We call them RINOs here. The Dems call them Red Dogs . They are all cut from the same cloth.
They won't pay if they bring home bacon. The sheeple have short memories.

The sheeple have short memories.

Perhaps they do and perhaps they don't. The Bobkat obviously wasn't prepared to chance it

Rob Oakeshott (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/oakeshotts-home-crowd-mostly-unimpressed-20100907-14zo4.html)

It didn't take long, Wayne Swann has removed the contraversial mining tax from the tax review

Mr Pyne said the Coalition would allow the parliament to work but would shine a light on government mismanagement.

"The Government needs to be held to account ... this will not be a parliament where all of history is turned on its head and we all sit around smoking the peace pipe and singing Kumbaya," he said.



Read more: Cracks appear in Labor deal says Opposition frontbencher Christopher Pyne | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/cracks-appear-in-labor-deal-says-opposition-frontbencher-christopher-pyne/story-fn5tas5k-1225915703680#ixzz0ytAYveBO)

Mr McLeish believes Mr Oakeshott's decision flies in the face of most of his constituents - conservatives won over by the MP's energetic independence.

Screwing constituents . I see it is not something that happens exlusively here.

One can only hope for a quick disolution of the Red regime.

It didn't take long, Wayne Swann has removed the conroversial mining tax from the tax review

Mr Pyne said the Coalition would allow the parliament to work but would shine a light on government mismanagement.

"The Government needs to be held to account ... this will not be a parliament where all of history is turned on its head and we all sit around smoking the peace pipe and singing Kumbaya," he said.



Read more: Cracks appear in Labor deal says Opposition frontbencher Christopher Pyne | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/features/federal-election/cracks-appear-in-labor-deal-says-opposition-frontbencher-christopher-pyne/story-fn5tas5k-1225915703680#ixzz0ytAYveBO)
Lol the ultra-partisans are already restless ?
How is Red julia at arm twisting? She doesn't have a huge majority so she will have to keep the indies in line or the whole house of cards comes down. (one can only hope.)

lol the ultra-partisans are already restless ?
How is Red julia at arm twisting? She doesn't have a huge majority so she will have to keep the indies in line or the whole house of cards comes down. (one can only hope.)

She has already told us she will do it her way, nation building and all that, and she has already been reminded she has no mandate, so lots of rhetoric until parliament sits again and then we will see how friendly they can be. She will be bridled by an unfriendly Senate until July 1 anyway, but the mining tax is part of supply so she will get that up, at least into the Senate, and the NBN is already proceeding, so the only thing stalemated is the ETS. I think it will be interesting whether the coalition opposes the payoff to the independents, as it also will affect their constituents, and the Greens continue to oppose this form of the ETS as they did in the past. It doesn't take much for Labor to build a shaky house of cards, they don't have a good record for good government. We well remember 1975 and the shambles that was ,and later the recession we had to have, the Banana Republic under scumbag Paul Keating and now we have had the pink bats fiasco, the school halls fiasco, the GST tax grab, followed by the great big tax on everything, This is the only government who's policies have actually killed people, so par for the course

http://resources2.news.com.au/images/2010/09/07/1225915/551230-kudelka-coin.jpg

I see she already lost her first policy vote ;and she broke her promise about carbon tax.
Looks like it's the Greens that actually won the election.

I see she already lost her first policy vote ;and she broke her promise about carbon tax. .

That vote was symbolic, a small change to legislation, but important in showing that the independents could be wooed to support good legislation and are willing to stick it to the government. The little red fox has been placed in a position where she personally must attend every vote or risk losing it, That should keep her from globe trotting the way her predecessors had. Things have become heated very quickly
http://www.smh.com.au/national/pyne-thrown-out-of-parliament-20100930-15yv3.html

The position on carbon tax is unclear, but she will have to do something to keep the Greens support. The Greens have already suggested they are open to working with the Coalition to pass legislation.

.
Looks like it's the Greens that actually won the election.

Yes, it is a great concern that the Communist, Markist idealists who have been hiding under the Green banner have arrived in a position of power. Rihannon and Brandt are known communists while recent alligations are that those who joined the communists in 1950 would join the greens today because they are communist at the core, true watermelons. Joe McCarthy where are you?

The Brits have come up with a clever way to reduce carbon emissions 10%
(warning... graphic)YouTube - How to Cut Carbon Emissions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLDel-G9k&feature=player_embedded#)!

That an add campaign like this could move through the production process without anyone in the organization stopping to think it might offend should tell you everything you need to know about the Green Movement.

Here in the US we've had about enough of these fraudsters.
YouTube - Al Gore Confronted in Tampa about Global Warming Again!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGe3yUtyJww&feature=player_embedded)

The Brits have come up with a clever way to reduce carbon emissions 10%
(warning ....graphic)YouTube - How to Cut Carbon Emissions (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTLDel-G9k&feature=player_embedded#)!

That an add campaign like this could move through the production process without anyone in the organization stopping to think it might offend should tell you everything you need to know about the Green Movement.

Here in the US we've had about enough of these fraudsters.
YouTube - Al Gore Confronted in Tampa about Global Warming Again!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGe3yUtyJww&feature=player_embedded)

Tom global warming is the least of our worries the first concern of our Greens is not what you might expect, it is euthanasia, or more correctly the enforced euthanasia of the elderly

Of course... Thomas Malthus lives in both remedies.