Before I ask my questions, I feel like I need to let you guys know the story of why I feel how I feel, that way you can understand me better. Please Only read if you're in the mood for reading... and helping. This is the full story of my problem and it is kind of longish, but I will appreciate everybody's help. :)

So Hi everybody! My name's Fernie and I joined the forum because I have a problem towards my girlfriend that's been eating me alive. I will fist introduce the "characters" and describe them, then I will describe the actions that happened, and finally I will explain my problem, I'm sorry if I write too much, but I really need someone to help me realize what the hell to do.

Ok, so in one week it will be 2 years since I've been going out with my girlfriend, here's a brief description of her. She's 18, in college, very pretty, living by herself with her dad's money who lives in Australia but is actually looking to get a job herself because she doesn't want to turn into one of those people who just live off their parents and never become anything, she's very smart and educated, very polite, but has a problem, she lies a LOT to get out of trouble, not just to me, but anyone she has to. She's not a good liar, yet it's almost like a sickness she can't cure. She understands me a lot, she remembers things that sometimes I forget, she really loves me and I actually know this. I feel like she completes me, although sometimes I feel like killing her hahaha. She's helped me out a lot, and is a very nice girl, her only problems are like I said, lying, and she is unorganized and lazy. Other than that she's amazing. Ok now on to the next character.


This guy from her apartment complex, he works in the office. My girlfriend lives in one of the two apartments upstairs, the one next to hers is a showroom. The guy is constantly there showing apartments. He's always looking good because he wears a shirt and tie, and he's one of those guys who plays nice but in reality is a douchebag you'll understand why in a sec.


And finally, me. I only 2 years older than my girl and trust me, the age difference is not felt one bit. Ive done anything you can imagine for her. She used to live with her mom, which was hell, because she would beat my girl up and make her do insane tasks and control her and never give her any money for anything. But throughout all the bad times, I was there, I helped her graduate from high school, and I helped her meet her real dad, who happened to have a lot of money and he's a nice guy, so everything she has right now, she actually deserves after everything her crazy *** mom put her through. Good and Bad, Fernie's been there, and she's grown to love me like if I was a part of her, she trusts me fully, because I never betrayed her and because she knows I'm incapable of cheating, but she doesn't admit this because she has this thing where she always has to be even, so if I don't say I trust her, she won't either, but I know she does.


Anyway on to the actions that messed up my trust for her...



After December, I lost my job, and I struggled very much to find a new one but I did, it was in Armani store at the local mall, I worked my *** off but it was so frustrating to be under commission. My girl cheered me on though and was proud that I had gotten a job and was working so hard and was doing the best I could. Anyway, one day, I come to her house around 4PM before I went to work, and I find out she has been texting the office guy for about two or three days! As I find this out I ask to see the phone, up to this day I do not know nor will I ever know what was on those texts because she didn't show me, she chose not to because she didn't want me to get all angry over nothing (according to her) and leave her. So I leave her house pissed off obviously, and have one of the worst days at my job, I couldn't believe I was working so hard while she was doing nothing at home, and on top of everything she was talking to that dude.

I return, later that night, midnight, and she apologizes to me and tells me there was nothing going on, and she told me the complete story of how it ended up happening, here it is:

She needed to hang a clock, which is heavy and her walls are very tall, so she needed a ladder. She goes to the office to put in a request to have one of the guys from maintenance to bring in a ladder, so according to her, the office guy and the maintenance guy show up at her house to see what they would be doing with the clock before bringing the ladder. After inspecting the wall, Office guy asks for her number so they could get back to her to let her know when they would be bringing the ladder. Anyway, the fat maintenance guy did the clock thing and that was it. But later in the day, she receives a message that said 'What's up?' so she is weirded out because the guy had just been there, what could he possibly want now? He usually only called when she was needed at the office to sign something, but now he was just acting casual. Anyway they texted back and forth and just talk about innocent things like her having a cat and him too, and him being transferred to another location (something that never happened) and bla bla bla. I believed her, or a least I told her I did, I mean come on, there are so many flaws in the story. For one, the office guy already HAD her number in the office, there was no need to ask for it. He saved the number into his personal Cell phone and started texting her for unproffessional reasons. Second of all, if it would've been innocent talk, she would've just shown me to prove there was nothing wrong, she always does that, she shows me and then laughs at me for being a jealous idiot, which I prefer actually instead of her hiding stuff from me.

Anyway that was her story, I forgave her, and that same night we put on a movie and relaxed, and in the middle of the movie, yup, you guessed it, the freaking guy texts again! This time I read it, he said she looked like she was sad today, and wanted to know if she was OK. I got pissed as HELL! Grabbed both her phone and mine, and I saved his number onto my phone, and then texted him right there,I told him to stop texting my girl. He replies with him just wanting to keep it professional and just being a friend, I came back with not giving a sh*t, I just wanted him to leave my girl alone, eventually after a couple texts we quit it. Then, I grabbed my girlfriend's phone and texted him pretending to be her while she was right next to me, and told him not to text her anymore and that I was sorry I he got the wrong impression of her and stuff like that. He didn't text back until the next day, saying "Sorry that I bother you so much, have a good day." you know, pretending to be the victim, the sorry kid, I didn't care, we were done, or so I thought. After that, my girlfriend feels bad I guess and she texts him back! Saying "You dont bother me, haha youre funny" I still remember those words and they hurt me every time I remember. All she had to do was leave it like that, but NO! She had to go the extra mile and step on my dreams even more. Lol

So here's my problem, I feel ashamed of having to have told a dude to stop texting my girl when she wasn't even willing to do it. I hate the fact that they don't talk to each other but because of me, that's not the right reason for it. I know she thinks he's attractive because when I asked, she said he's "OK looking", which in girl language means "I like him but I don't want to be THAT messed up". And I know he likes her, but not for a relationship, obviously, but just for a night or two. After all I have done for her, after everything I went through being broke and looking for whatever job and working late just so I could barely pay my phone bill and gas and get some crappy food, she goes on and betrays me like that. Now I know she's able to betray me easily, and to lie about it, and to defend other people she doesn't even know, and to do whatever it takes to make sure she looks good in the end, even if we break up. I made her change numbers, and told her not to go to the office, because I didn't believe a girl would be summoned to an office as much as she is. But she goes anyway because she says she has no choice because her dad is not here to fill out the papers and update info , etc. But now she tells me he happens to never be there when she goes in, and that there's always just girls, and that always a girl is the one who helps her! I mean come on! How much more can you lie to someone that loves you.

I feel I've become really jealous, controlling, paranoid, angry, and that I can't trust her anymore. And I told her she would have to start rebuilding my trust for her, but I just don't think she can do it. She loves me, I know this for a fact, but she is weak, she may even be right when she says she doesn't like the guy, because she is a very friendly, sensitive and shy person, that she is easily persuaded, if you ask her to give you somehting she will, and then she will wonder why she did it, she lives with a lot of regrets, and mistakes. She also refers to this guy now as a "mistake" that won't happen again. She admitted she was stupid to do what she did and that she will work hard to get me to trust her again, but I don't think I can. Because why wouldn't she show me? Why wouldn't she tell the guy to stop? Why did I have to be the one to cut him from her life? I wish it wouldn't have been like that because I can't help but feeling that if I hadn't gotten in the middle, they would probably be together by now. But I will never know, and living with things I will never know is hard for me, I'm so
Worried, even though I know that I can find a better girl if I wanted to, I just love her, and I know she loves me, and I would hate to end this and then regret it, and think about her being with this dude. So it's like I don't want to leave her for two reasons, one because I love her, and two because I don't want anyone else to be with her.

Do you think there is hope? What should I do? I already agreed to give her one more chance, but how should I behave from now on? Should I be patient and not interfere in her plans? Should I still check her phone and messages every once in a while? Should I keep my eye on her for a while to make sure everything will be fine? Or should I not care and let her do her own things the way she thinks should be done and if something bad happens then it happens? What can I do? What would you do? I really need help, you can see how late it is, and this happened a while ago, but it still bothers me, and the guy is still working there (not to mention also living at the complex). I just don't like how I've become because of this problem, and I hate the way our relationship is now because of this, if we wouldn't have had that set back, we would be in harmony, now we fight all the time because I get angry at her constantly for every little thing, as if I'm looking for a way to punish her but I can't be as messed up as she was, I wish I would have a girl in my life that I could've made her jealous and hurt like she did, but I'm not that kind of person, I love HER and HER only and that's why I would like someone's opinion and help. Please be respectful. Thanks for taking the time to read this. I hope to see some good replies, and thank you very much in advance, I hope everything will be fine in the end.

-Fernie

'I feel I've become really jealous, controlling, paranoid, angry, and that I can't trust her anymore.'

You said it! Good lord you are hardly letting this girl breath. She exchanged a few friendly texts with someone not bodily fluids for goodness sake. So the guy asked for her number to save himself the trouble of looking it up - hardly unbelievable. So they exchanged a few friendly texts, I'm hardly surprised she was relucatant to hand the phone over given how you did react when you got hold of it.

So she says he's OK looking. I am female and in my girl language that means he's Ok looking. Full stop. So is she supposed to say every man she sees is ugly to massage your ego? What's the chance you would believe her anyway?

You made her change numbers and forbid her to go to the office. What on earth gives you the right? Where the heck is the trust?

What can she do to earn your trust? As she didn't do anything wrong in the first place I doubt anything she can do will suffice.

Should you check her phone and messages? No. You should trust her.

You started this saga with this,

she's very smart and educated, very polite, but has a problem, she lies a LOT to get out of trouble, not just to me, but anyone she has to. She's not a good liar, yet it's almost like a sickness she can't cure. She understands me a lot, she remembers things that sometimes I forget, she really loves me and I actually know this. I feel like she completes me, although sometimes I feel like killing her hahaha. She's helped me out a lot, and is a very nice girl, her only problems are like I said, lying, and she is unorganized and lazy. Other than that she's amazing.
So you already knew the good points and the bad, and as much love as you have, there is that distrust of everything she says, just beneath the surface. Point being the mistrust has always been there for longer than you would admit. Having said that, you would have questioned any guy she talked to or texts, and if she didn't prove the innocence of it, you would be highly upset as you say here,

Second of all, if it would've been innocent talk, she would've just shown me to prove there was nothing wrong, she always does that, she shows me and then laughs at me for being a jealous idiot, which I prefer actually instead of her hiding stuff from me.
So of course you now know you are right when she didn't do that with this fellow. Add that to the facts she texted him back to apologize to him and keep the texting going, I imagine your anger was through the roof, and suspicions confirmed.

Honestly, you have been ignoring all the red flags in front of you, and have become a real controlling fellow, because of your long held mistrust issues (right, or wrong), and her actions, but as long as you accept bad behavior, it will keep happening, and that my friend is NOT a healthy thing to continue to have.

Confronting her has not helped at all, so what are you still doing there with her, when you have enough facts to over rule the feelings you have. I mean you said yourself,

How much more can you lie to someone that loves you.
That's a good question you should have asked a long time ago.

I feel I've become really jealous, controlling, paranoid, angry, and that I can't trust her anymore. And I told her she would have to start rebuilding my trust for her, but I just don't think she can do it. She loves me, I know this for a fact, but she is weak, she may even be right when she says she doesn't like the guy,
Lets be real, you both have issues, and for whatever reasons, you bring out the worst in each other.

Sometimes its much better to deal with your personal issues apart, than lumping them together, and having unrealistic goals, that tax your patience for positive results.

You have no control over what she does, or if she is willing to change, just as she has no control over you, and your actions, but its obvious you both feed off each others negatives, and thats what has to change.

If you both are willing fine, but if you cannot at least communicate with complete honesty, your efforts are doomed before they start.

To QLP: Well, how do you know she didn't exchange anything besides text when I'm working everyday 'till midnight and she leaves freaking alone, an 18 year old living by herself, there's an attractive guy constantly right next door to her, AND he is interested in her. Are you honestly saying he asked for her number to save himself the trouble of looking it up?? Hmmm, I smell feminism, I want a more neutral answer. Because this guy had never any trouble calling her from the office, it's what he's paid for, he gets a number, while comfortably sitting at his desk, calls her and lets her know his message, but he actually saved the number in his own cell phone, and started texting her about other things unrelated to anything. I'm cool with her having guy friends and talking to or texting guys, up until that point, where she felt she had to do it behind my back, I never been jealous or controlling or angry, but that event has messed me up, I came here with a personal problem asking help on how I can trust her again and save my relationship andm ake everything go back to the way it was, not to seek out "Ms.Woman Defender of everything that has a vagina". No, I didn't have the right to make her change numbers or even tell him to stop talking to him! That's why I feel bad!! Please read next time, I feel bead about what I made her do because if she didn't feel like stopping the texts or changing her number, then I shouldn't have done anything about it, but what would you do if someone you trust and known for almost 3 years turns out not trusting you enough to tell you straightforward that she made a guy friend and that she exchanged "friendly" texts, after learning that and her defending her phone like it was the Holy grail and she was a Templar, of course I got pissed, what would YOU do? And after that, my jealousy problem began, yes I understand there's many things wrong with me, you don't need to point them out because I took the trouble to do it myself. But still thanks for the opinion nonetheless. Your verdict is that I should trust her, that's it, just blindly trust her because I have no other choice, and OK, thanks for the honesty, I will of course try that because I really want to trust her again. Also the reason why I got mad and suspicious about her saying he was OK looking is because in the past when she first moved in, she told me she thought he was ugly and looked gay, then all of a sudden he's good looking. But I guess I should've pointed that out, it was 4am, lol.


To Talaniman: Yeah I know both our shortcomings, I'm jealous and I have become suspicious, she is a liar, a bad one, but she cares more about looking good even if she knows that I know she's lying. She has admitted to lying being a bad habit of her, that it started when she needed to get away from her mom, which is believable, I've seen her lie to her mom, who totally deserves it by the way, she is a very bad person. And now she's telling me she's trying to stop lying and become a nice, honest person, which I also believe because she's only 18, and barely learning about life. But I wonder what would've happened if it would've gone out of control? What if one day I would come home from work early and find this guy in the house? What if she's capable of more than just lying? This is my real problem, that how do I know if I can trust someone who's barely learning the ways of life, and the importance of trust and not lying or hiding things. If she would've told me straight out what she was doing, I would've respected the hell out of her, because that's the woman I want, someone who has the guts to tell me "Yeah, I have a male friend, but I love YOU, and he knows this and there won't ever be anything more than friendship, now you can get mad at it if you want but that's the way it is". That would've made me applaud her, and trust her even more, but telling me that they only talksed about unimportant things and innocent things and me being "ok just let me see one of them" and her being like "nooo" and hiding the phone, that has SUSPICIOUS written all over it, am I crazy?? I told her if she ever likes someone else that I rather her tell me and not let me find out by myself, because the truth always comes to the light, and I rather end with her in good terms than bad. But after our last big fight, I'm doing a great effort in trusting her, even if I don't want to, but I am, and things seem to be going OK, although now I pay more attention, I guess we will see what happens, but what would you have done? How can I trust her again? Please an answer besides "Oh just trust her. Period" I want to know if there really is a way to rebuild trust besides it happening over time. Thanks again for taking the trouble to read this. All help as always is highly appreciated.

-Fernie

I guess we will see what happens, but what would you have done?
I would have confronted the trust issue as soon as I had an idea that she could lie so easily, and either we worked it out or not, had it continued, I would be out of here. Its happened before, and yes, I have disappeared from the life of a liar!

How can I trust her again? Please an answer besides "Oh just trust her. Period"
That would be up to you as its you that allow this bad behavior, and she has had not enough consequences to change.

I want to know if there really is a way to rebuild trust besides it happening over time.
Sorry guy, you had a chance to address this pro actively, and you did not. And if you can't communicate honestly with each other, to establish boundaries you both agree with, whose fault is that?

And anything that start with "if", or "what if". Is not a fact, just the questions of a fearful mind. Relax and be patient, as it's a red flag when partners cannot bring out the best in each other, only the worst. Carry yourself with dignity, and keep control of your OWN feelings, as you try to improve communications, and move forward.

Firstly what does she lie about? I mean most people tell a few porkies now and again but are they about important things or just to keep the peace a bit? For instance if you mean things like her saying the guy was ugly then changing it to he's Ok, I presume she is telling you what you want to hear. You already have decided that 'he's OK looking' means something completely different so she's going to find it hard to be honest if you don't like it when she tries. I'm not saying honesty isn't the best policy but I'm trying to get a bit of perspective here.

Secondly, I don't know what the office guy's motive was for texting her, but whether he wants to be her friend or jump her bones doesn't mean she is going to sleep with him. Ok so she is friendly and works a bit too hard to make people like her, I think she would be really pretty desperate to actually sleep with someone to stay in their good books. If she is actually that lacking in self-esteem then there's not too much hope really for any relationship.

The long-term lying needs addressing. However, I do think you over-reacted to this specific situation. The problem is the way you did react sounds very controlling, as you know yourself. So I'm wondering whether she isn't honest with you because she expects you to go off on one at every little thing, or you have gone so far over the top because the lack of trust has built up too far. I'll be honest the way your post was worded, it had such a lot of control in it, and negativity, that I could really understand someone not being up-front with you.
Maybe that's not who you usually are, and her lying has led you to start behaving like this but my reaction was based on your post and, it is certainly how you sound now.

'"Ms.Woman Defender of everything that has a vagina' - read some of my other posts and I think you will find you have that one wrong. My post was bluntly honest, I simply told it as I saw it, your response is hostile. No big deal for me, but if that is how you speak to your girlfriend can you not see that she will have a hard time opening up to you?

You two have got yourselves in a very negative cycle one way or the other, maybe it's time for some joint counselling to get things on a better footing.

QLP wrote a very good response to you. You should refrain from being so rude and judgmental of those who take the time to respond with honesty.

I am a feminist. Shall I go on, or would you rather hear from a more neutral party?

I do know a bit about relationships. AND I've been married a long, long time. I do know what it takes to trust somebody, solve relationship problems, and be the bigger person when all else fails and I'm referred to as some body part.

You, are very insecure, controlling, possessive, and downright arrogant in my opinion. You expect to be supported in your 'question', and aren't open enough to accept the answers you are given.

I can tell you you would take my cell phone once, and it would be up your ars* in less than three seconds. Tell me who to talk to? Be suspicious of any man I decide to talk to? Be considered essentially a liar because you don't believe me even when I tell the truth?

Just what makes you so special that you can continue to think that you have any right to the actions or behaviours of any other human being, let alone a partner.

SHE has to earn YOUR trust? You got that bass ackwards.

She does not need saved from herself- by you. She doesn't need you to question her character, motives, honesty. You are not special enough to sit in judgment of anybody, no matter what they do.

Bottom line, you should try to find someone more 'worthy' of your greatness. She obviously doesn't appreciate you enough to realize you are the be all and end all to all men. The perfect one. The smarter one. The judgmental one who knows best, and to the point of, in your own description of yourself,

I feel I've become really jealous, controlling, paranoid, angry,

Those are dangerous traits in any relationship, and made even worse, by your justification of them.

I really feel sorry for your girlfriend.