Gen. Bolden has been a USNA student and graduate, Marine Corps officer from Lt. to General, including avaitor in Viet Nam, astronaut who flew on the space shuttle and now Administrator of NASA.
I am expected to believe that this man cannot receive an order from the president of the U.S. interpret it accurately, and repeat it without misspeaking?
I was in the U.S. Navy at about 15 levels below this gentleman's rank and learned about orders on the first day of boot camp. I didn't forget it either.
USNA student, Marine officer, Marine aviator, Marine senior commander, and astronaut all requiring high degrees of accuracy and carrying out commands of all types, but he flubs his biggest assignment yet?
Gibbs said essentially that the Gen. is a liar (he was looking for a synonymn and Ed Henry said - He misspoke?"). Yeah, that's the ticket!
Would you continue in the NASA job, having that resume' and being accused of basically being incompetent? Could he handle a space related emergency with such poor command deficiencies? Was the big plan to get rid of NASA altogether?
What's the REAL issue in this controversy?

Gen. Bolden has been a USNA student and graduate, Marine Corps officer from Lt. to General, including avaitor in Viet Nam, astronaut who flew on the space shuttle and now Administrator of NASA.
I am expected to believe that this man cannot receive an order from the president of the U.S., interpret it accurately, and repeat it without misspeaking??
I was in the U.S. Navy at about 15 levels below this gentleman's rank and learned about orders on the first day of boot camp. I didn't forget it either.
USNA student, Marine officer, Marine aviator, Marine senior commander, and astronaut all requiring high degrees of accuracy and carrying out commands of all types, but he flubs his biggest assignment yet?
Gibbs said essentially that the Gen. is a liar (he was looking for a synonymn and Ed Henry said - He misspoke?"). Yeah, that's the ticket!
Would you continue in the NASA job, having that resume' and being accused of basically being incompetent? Could he handle a space related emergency with such poor command deficiencies? Was the big plan to get rid of NASA altogether?
What's the REAL issue in this controversy?
Bolden's mission is perfectly appropriate to the newly renamed National Arabic Self-esteem Authority
He can arrange to give every Muslim child a joy ride in a used space shuttle

I approve of the NASA reach-out . The wacking of Al Qaeda and Taliban chiefs in Waziristan with Predators and Hellfire could not have been possible without their past contributions to science .We should remind them of it as often as possible.

I approve of the NASA reach-out . The wacking of Al Qaeda and Taliban chiefs in Waziristan with Predators and Hellfire could not have been possible without their past contributions to science .We should remind them of it as often as possible.

Surely Tom they have more important things to do. Is the US so bereft of resources that it needs to use a scientic exploration agency to placate Islam. What an admission of failure for foreign policy. I know it is their technology that probably created the predator which is now used for military purposes and that NASA actually has a military purpose but there is a lot to be said for focus on objectives and it is possible to do two things at the one one time, at least that is what I was assured some time ago.

I concure with smearcase ' sentiment here . Bolden is the latest victim with tire treadmarks . It is right up the President's alley to use NASA as a propaganda prop on his apology tour.
Bolden is too honorable to have lied... and a Muslim out-reach is just an extension of Obama's Cairo and Ankara suck up speeches .

Bolden's error was to make it public. I'm sure the President wanted this directive as something hush hush unofficial .

And ,if indeed Gibbs is correct ,then the President picked someone delusional to run the dept.which calls into question the President's judgement . But I don't think so.

I see a pattern here in comparison to the McChrystal situation and I didn't want this to become a McChrystal discussion so I didn't say it, initially.
McChrystal has a resume' and reputation about the same as Bolden, minus space flight. He knows what he is doing now, and in the future at just about every instant. I have several theories of what his plan was but will just say he knew it was best to leave and he made certain it would happen.
Do high level, especially military type senior leaders, in this admin. Receive instructions to implement controversial policies in hopes that they will luck out, but knowing it is a risky move and figure the military people will fall on their swords to save the king? They have fat retirements, they're expendable.
McC's error was to make it public too.
Senior Generals don't misspeak very often. They have been weighing every word for 40 years, they know you say "Say Again", not "Repeat" when you didn't hear what was said, they always have a plan, and they know that every word can have dramatic consequences.
Is Bolden's plan similar to McC'c? He came to work for, say Caterpillar Tractor and now finds himself the International PR Rep. for Middle Eastern Affairs, and CAT is now dissolved and he has a new secret title of Asst. Deputy Sec. of State. And his major function is to reap praise upon people, whose friends and relatives pray for the death of his fellow Marines, and American citizens.
I am watching for his reaction to Fibb's "misspoke" comment. It may give us a clue.
This Obama/Muslim/Esteem/NASA issue (OMEN) is a really BFD on every front and it needs to be pursued. All the news media are ignoring it, including Fox. It's treason (in my humble opinion) but it's almost impossible to prove.
This is the first question I have ever asked at AMHD in 3 years of participation and I have been a Democrat for 45+ years. That's how important I believe it is!

This Obama/Muslim/Esteem/NASA issue (OMEN) is a really BFD on every front and it needs to be pursued. All the news media are ignoring it, including Fox. It's treason (in my humble opinion) but it's almost impossible to prove.
This is the first question I have ever asked at AMHD in 3 years of participation and I have been a Democrat for 45+ years. That's how important I believe it is!

Treason, that is a big streach there. Your nation is not responsible for the self esteem of muslim youth, that is the provence of the Imans and whilst we would admin they seem to have done poorly, anything you might do is likely to make the problem worse because culture as well as religion is involved here, and you are as culturally far from them as the rest of us are from the Moon.

So go ahead train some muslim youth in space flight and we will see what they can crash into this time. I think it is a bridge too far, a very illconcieved plan and I like you acronymn OMEN perhaps a portent of DOOM

We're fighting two wars, really several more. We can be for 'em, deplore 'em, or ignore 'em.
I thought long and hard before using the T word. It is a stretch but the connection is intact before, during, and after the rubber band is pulled.

TREASON- the betrayal of a trust: TREACHERY

TREACHERY- violation of allegiance or of faith and confidence: TREASON

ALLEGIANCE- devotion or loyalty to a person group or cause.

You can't fight wars and praise your adversaries at the same time.
You can, but it is treason.

I've seen hundreds of attacks on Obama, 95% of which are pure fiction, and many are pure distortion, trickery and fraud. This is one of the 5%!

Honorable, professional, senior, and highly decorated military leaders are being sacrificed to save a turncoat, whose real agenda is very suspect.

We forget we are at war, except for those who are doing the work and paying the price. Life goes on but not for all. I'll follow the Generals into battle. I'm not going for the touchy, feely, praise your enemy/ pay him not to shoot at you philosophy.

I'll follow the Generals into battle. Will you really? Or will you just post an anonymous discussion boards? :)

My history is that I took the oath, served 3 yrs 4 months and 23 days, trained for deployment to Viet Nam twice, was ordered elsewhere twice and would have either followed the Admirals or deserted. You think I would have deserted, I don't have a habit of that.
What's your military bio?

I think it interesting that folks who advance the theory that religion is anti-science ,are trying to champion the contributions of a religion to the sciences. Also it is disturbing that the Muslim world is in the Obot's mind a monolithic political entity without borders. Scientists who believe in the tenents of many different religions ,or none at all ,have contributed to space exploration.

You can't fight wars and praise your adversaries at the same time.

You can't fight a war if you refuse to name your enemy either.

. I'll follow the Generals into battle. I'm not going for the touchy, feely, praise your enemy/ pay him not to shoot at you philosophy.

Are you saying you don't agree with political control of the military and that the CIC is an anacronism?

paraclete-excellent question!

I was in full support of the McC outcome. I absolutely agree with civilian control of the military, when LAWFUL orders are given.
I am not a lawyer so I can't legally define lawful order but I could take a few guesses. I won't, because the examples would be taken by some as accusations and would destroy my attempt to get serious answers to my original questions.
Military personnel are under the jurisdiction of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (of which I also don't claim espertise in, but I know that it covers a vast array of infractions). If a senior military officer was ordered by civilians to violate the UCMJ, he/she would have a serious predicament. One way out of it would be to get yourself more or less fired. Another way to get out of it is to go totally public with it as Bolden did (I know he is retired military but has been guided by the UCMJ for 40 years) , and see where the chips fall. If this news (actually, total lack of coverage) fizzles out, there is no spirit, and no sense of outrage left in America.

Speech,

Your point is well taken.

No truer words were ever spoken than "War is Hell".
But recognizing the enemy has been a big problem in recent wars and probably all wars. When "someone" is killing your soldiers in a certain place, the enemy (named or not) is definitely in that place and that place has to become "Hell on Earth". How they feel about you being there and unfortunately, collateral damage has to take a back seat. Was the decision to send those troops on the mission a LAWFUL order? That was civilian control of the military. Sending them on the mission, then undercutting them and handcuffing them, and POSSIBLY praising the folks killing our brave soldiers is still treason in my opinion.
Now we can get back to my original question--What's the real issue in this Bolden/Obama controversy?
Did OBAMA tell BOLDEN what BOLDEN says OBAMA told BOLDEN and if he did, was what OBAMA told BOLDEN OK?

Tom,

As usual you look at the big picture, then cut to the chase.

If the NASA chief has time (sounds like he will have), he should start in the U.S.A. then go all over the world and thank all the contributors to American space travel achievements. Why just a certain few? Maria von Braun (widow of Wernher Magnus Maximilian Freiherr von Braun ) is in her eighties and could be in U.S.--big cost savings for my NASA funds. She's Lutheran, it says--is that one of the acceptable religions?

Did OBAMA tell BOLDEN what BOLDEN says OBAMA told BOLDEN and if he did, was what OBAMA told BOLDEN ok?

I think you covered that well enough in your posts #6 and 8. Bolden didn't misspeak, Obama is playing CYA and to him that means throwing anyone under the bus that put him that position.

I brought this issue up here in hopes of stirring up some outrage, mainly because the media wrote it off days ago. (Maybe the real question is--Why did the media shut down so fast on a potentially huge story like this? ) Natiional Security? What I failed to realize was that the media determines what is important, and will notify us of what is important. The media decided it isn't important or were told so by others to back off and a result folks don't know what I am talking about--" NASA Bolden Mission"?
I have read maybe 250 emails about Obama floating around out there. Most of them are pure fiction, malicious fiction at that when you research them--such as Obama Fails to Salute at Veteran's day ceremony and he's not but researchers found that "Hail to the Chief" was being played at the time". if he had been dumb enough yo salute himself--that would have made a better story.
But here is a story that is well documented. Somebody is lying about an important issue. If it is Bolden, he was a poor selection and unfit for the job. If it is Gibbs, he has to go and O. has to explain what's going on. Congress checks the exec. Branch, and they are totally silent. The press is the last chance?-Good luck! At the press conf. with Gibbs yesterday, some of the questions were- "Will the prez go to Chelsea's wedding and Where will the first family vacation this year?" Maybe Americans are tired of hearing info like the Bolden story and maybe if it is fully investigated it will be determined it was blown out of proportion, initially, but our enemies don't tire of anything, they stay on mission.
I believe that we have had so many shocks to our system over the recent years and last decades that we are numb and sometimes can't recognize the real threats to democracy, as they continue to pile up. Did we use up all our outrage supply on Sept. 11, 2001?
I apologize for the long and frequent posts on this issue but I can't sum up complex matters in sound bites like the news dudes.
I would appreciate some final comments and feel free to rip me. The truth is the objective,

The truth is the objective Indeed... it will also set you free .

Gibbs is like Baghdad Bob . You know he is lying by watching his lips move.

I don't know if this rises to the level of treason;especially when ranking it against some of the other outrages in the short time the Chi-town mob has been in the WH . The Blago trial as an example has already exposed some major lying going on during discovery. I don't know if the President's staffers like Jarrett and Rhambo will be called to testify ,or if the President will protect them with executive privilege ,but it seems to me that what is known from testimony would warrant at least the same type of scrutiny as the Plame affair.

The same can be said for other trading /bribing attempts during the recent primaries ;and the Justice Dept squashing the New Black Panther voter intimidation investigation.

Don't count on the gate-keepers of the 4th estate . They have been mouthpieces for progressives for a long time and even if there ever was an objective press ,it is part of ancient history. All you need to ask yourself in all these cases is "What if it was the Bush Administration that had done this ? "

I brought this issue up here in hopes of stirring up some outrage

Join the crowd, trying to stir up any outrage over this regime leads to the chirping of many crickets.

Besides , the Dems are already sufficiently outrages at Gibbs for predicting they might lose the majority in the House (to illustrate what the MSM finds newsworthy)


“The White House waving the white flag creates panic,” said a senior House Democratic aide. …

One senior House strategist said that the timing of the comments could not have been worse as the third fundraising quarter, which spans from July 1 to Sept. 30, is the most critical of the year since media buys — typically the costliest part of any campaign — are made during this time. “The NRCC was struggling to raise enough money,” said the source. “This is not a mistake we needed now.” …

The Fix - The White House, the House and the impact of a majority in the balance (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/thefix/white-house/the-white-house-the-house-and.html)

You see ? It's not the fact that their electoral chances are sinking . The problem was Gibbs gums flapping . He is next under the bus if I may make a bold prediction
You speak of false rumors ? Wait until you see PUMA Democrats join the birther movement .

There are so many priorities and I don't think they realize that many of them can't be put on the back burner, such as the military related ones. Social programs they can do ten at a time. Not to stray too far from the topic and I don't think it does but the Defcon 3 light has been flashing on the Iran matters for about 3 years and more. You and I thought Bush might clean that up before he left as I recall. Is there something going on possibly that israel has a date in mind and O. is trying to talk them out of it, causing the real riff? I pray that something is in the works. Iran can muster 3,000,000 troops according to a military site I was looking at. Or does O. think the esteem tour will make it all better?

There are so many priorities and I don't think they realize that many of them can't be put on the back burner, such as the military related ones.
Oh they have the military in their cross hairs all right .
In the spirit of bipartisanship ,Barney Frank and Ron Paul created an adhoc group of 'experts 'to come up with recommendations on cutting the military budget. The name of the group is the very misleading "Sustainable Defense Task Force".
The people selected for the group are a motley crew of disarmament advocates .
Carl Conetta, Project on Defense Alternatives
Benjamin H Friedman, Cato Institute
William D Hartung, New America Foundation
Christopher Hellman, National Priorities Project
Heather Hurlburt, National Security Network
Charles Knight, Project on Defense Alternatives
Lawrence J Korb, Center for American Progress
Paul Kawika Martin, Peace Action
Laicie Olson, Center for Arms Control and Non-ProliferationMiriam Pemberton, Institute for Policy Studies
Laura Peterson, Taxpayers for Common Sense
Prasannan Parthasarathi, Boston College
Christopher Preble, Cato Institute
Winslow Wheeler, Center for Defense .

I did a quick search on them because I recognized Lawrence Korb as Assistant Sec Def in the
1st Reagan term.
I thought there was a chance that it would actually be an objective task force. I was wrong.

Carl Coretta writes for an on-line site called antiwar.com .

Winslow Wheeler has written books like “The Wastrels of Defense: How Congress Sabotages U.S. Security” and wrote under the pseudonym "Spartacus," about in an article about Congress' reaction to the 9-11 attacks ("Mr. Smith Is Dead: No One Stands in the Way as Congress Lards Post-September 11 Defense Bills with Pork").

Chris Preble of Cato wrote 'The Power Problem: How American Military Dominance Makes Us Less Safe, Less Prosperous, and Less Free ' and 'Exiting Iraq: Why the U.S. Must End the Military Occupation and Renew the War against Al Qaeda '

Christopher Hellman works at the 'Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation'.

Charles Knight is co-director of the Project on Defense Alternatives and founded the Ground Force Alternatives Project at the Institute for Defense and Disarmament studies .Formerly Knight was a fellow at the Institute for Peace and International Security .

Paul Kawika Martin is the Political Director of Peace Action where he shares blog space with former Yippie Tom Hayden and Michael Moore .

Lacie Olson works at the Center for Arms Control and Non-Proliferation .She recently penned that sanctions against Iran are counter productive .

Miriam Pemberton is a Research Fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies, writing and speaking on demilitarization issues for its Foreign Policy In Focus project. She recently opined that climate security was a greater national security concern than military concerns .
Institute for Policy Studies: Military vs. Climate Security: Mapping the Shift from the Bush Years to the Obama Era (http://www.ips-dc.org/reports/military_vs_climate_security_mapping_the_shift_fro m_the_bush_years_to_the_obama_era)

You really can't make this stuff up !

Laura Peterson is with the National Security Program at Taxpayers for common sense. Deficit reduction on the back of the military .

Finally Prasannan Parathasarathi is a professor at Boston College who specializes in the economies of the European colonial era .

Korb would seem to be the odd man out from this group . But on further review I found that he is a Senior Fellow at the Center for American Progress and has written articles recently defending the work of the group and compares it to Ike's warning to beware the military industrial complex.

The National Interest (http://www.nationalinterest.org/Article.aspx?id=23582)

Would you believe this line would ever come from a former Reagan Assistant Sec Defense :
As more Americans come to understand the high costs and dubious benefits of U.S. military dominance, a backlash is all but inevitable.
So there you have it ;the ad hoc advisory group...
Their recommendations to Congress are here
Drastic cuts outlined in think-tank report - MarineCorpsTimes.com (http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/07/marine_cuts_071310w/)




I don't think it does but the Defcon 3 light has been flashing on the Iran matters for about 3 years and more. You and I thought Bush might clean that up before he left as I recall. Is there something going on possibly that israel has a date in mind and O. is trying to talk them out of it, causing the real riff? I pray that something is in the works.

There is a lot of movement on the Iran front and I'll try to post them in the next day or so. I'm still gathering the info and trying to connect the dots. There is a lot of interesting stuff going on .

But 1st I'd like to add some closing thoughts about General Bolden.

I keep wondering what would've happened if President Bush had asked former NASA director Michael Griffin to something simularily bone-headed and contrary to NASA's mission.
I think he would've resigned before accepting the directive ;and that is what I think Bolden should do now.

NASA appears directionless to me and the President has no vision for the agency beyond being a part of his propaganda arm. Still Bolden serves at the pleasure of the President and his only honorable move left is to resign.

I am encouraged that there appears to be a bipartisan revolt against the President's plan to gut the agencies biggest projects , the Ares heavy lift rocket and Orion capsule .But I think the agency will languish aimlessly until the President leaves office .

Thanks Tom.

I will be eagerly awaiting the Iran info.
You would think someone would at least try to get a 'No Comment" from Gen. Bolden. If we had a spacecraft, he could get out of Dodge in style. Refresher course and gone but he would probably mess up the commands and sequences, being unable to even understand and execute the simple 3 step orders from the CIC.
I know the press is lame but how did they get chased off this story so fast. Wartime national security claims? There's a second story there I think. The Dubai ports management matter was slightly similar and it was like wildfire for 3 weeks or more. I know that was Bush and this is Obama but still
Seems out of whack.

I know the press is lame but how did they get chased off this story so fast.

That's easy. O calls his college prof who calls his colleagues at the schools of (propagandized) journalism who call their students. The students check their sources in Gibbsie's office and the story is dead. Total telephone tree time - lunch.

Pure speculation on my part, of course.

Cat,
I think that is palusible. Maybe the National Enq. Will cover it, eventually. What about McConnell and Boehner etc, Lindsay? Some of my friends tell me not to even listen to the news because it will just up my blood pressure and nothing can be done about anything anyhow. If that is the philosophy of American citizens today, there is little hope, just accept what is served up. Good thing our ancestors didn't see it that way.

Maybe the National Enq. will cover it, eventually.
Yup, they cover all the important stuff: Celebrity News | Photos | Crime | Gossip National Enquirer Magazine (http://www.nationalenquirer.com/)

Whoops It might be plausible, too.

Cat,
I think that is palusible. Maybe the National Enq. will cover it, eventually. What about McConnell and Boehner etc, Lindsay? Some of my friends tell me not to even listen to the news because it will just up my blood pressure and nothing can be done about anything anyhow. If that is the philosophy of American citizens today, there is little hope, just accept what is served up. Good thing our ancestors didn't see it that way.

Call me Cats. Cat is my wife. She hangs out on the Marriage and relationship threads.

What you can do is your darndest to up the voter turnout in November. Drive your neighbors to the polls, if necessary. These Liberal/Progressive/Communist/Socialist/Feudalist (whatever they're calling themselves this week) have profited from voter apathy for half a century.

When the turnout was over half, America won. Parties don't really matter, we've had great Democrats and great Republicans. If you look closely, however, the great ones were elected by a majority of American voters, not a majority of Americans voting.

These Liberal/Progressive/Communist/Socialist/Feudalist You may want to educate yourself on the definition of those words before lumping them together. You've been listening to too much Fox News, Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh. Don't let them lower your IQ!

You may want to educate yourself on the definition of those words before lumping them together. You've been listening to too much Fox News, Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh. Don't let them lower your IQ!

They all want to rule while I pay for it. Feudalist is probably the most accurate title.

They all want to rule while I pay for it. That's the neo-conservative right there.

Cats, That's fine and that's the American way and over time it MAY-- a real big MAY (I may win the big lotto tonight, but I better wait and see before trying to buy my mansion) eventually work. What else are these traitors going to cook up and implement before Nov. and how many more after the election, and how long will they have until things change IF the right people are elected and can work their way through the labyrinth? Elected officials are not the answer, they're the problem. We're trying to operate in the 21st century using 18th century rules. Treason affects the troops of TODAY.

So smear, what's your solution if all of government officials are the problem and the rules are old?

And Karm, It took the NI to bring John Edwards out to the lectern after the powerful media tried for several years and failed. I don't care who brings it out but it needs to be explained. The only near feasible explanation from the WH is that he misspoke. I just want to know what he should have said, and hear from WH that a Marine General can botch a simple order from the CIC and still head up one of the most detailed agencies on the globe (I would consider the Globes reporting too)

Karm,
The question is at the top of the page. Which country are you referring to? But I will try to answer your question--Force the present govt. to do their jobs through citizen input like it is supposed to be--in the U.S. I've tried to answer your questions and stay on topic even though you ignored my question from July 14th. What's you military bio? You inferred I was a deserter. What's your expertise in that subject? That's a fair question.

What's you military bio? You inferred I was a deserter. What's your expertise in that subject? That's a fair question.Here's how it works: you're the one that said you were going to follow the generals into battle, not I. It appears that you aren't currently in the military so it must be a figure of speech I guess. I didn't infer desertion, I was inferring keyboard courage. :)

Karm,

Translation: With regard to the original questions, one of which is: What's the real issue in this controversy? I don't know if the issue is high officials lying or a new policy of praising the enemy or is it-- why the press is not following up on an important issue.
My comment was:I'll follow the Generals into battle. I'm not going for the touchy, feely, praise your enemy/ pay him not to shoot at you philosophy.
In plainer English: I believe Bolden; and I do not believe Gibbs. I will follow Bolden and other generals of his standing before I follow Gibbs. The battle in this case is finding the truth. They have I will accept a reasonably documented explanation from the President and it is way overdue (maybe I missed it). I would even accept a recantation from Bolden, along with his resignation.
That's the crux of my statement.