Democracy and freedom are erronous concepts? Have you ever wondered why engagement with the Muslim world is so difficult? Why these people who have so little don't appear to grasp why there are better ways of doing things. Perhaps it has been explained ?

Islamist leader Burhan Hanif tells Aussie Muslims to 'shun democracy' | News.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/national/islamist-leader-burhan-hanif-tells-aussie-muslims-told-to-shun-democracy/story-e6frfkvr-1225887784755)

The idea here is that democracy and freedom are actually anti Muslim, completely incompatiable with their religion. If this is so then why are those of us who live in free democratic secular societies tolerating people who have no interest in keeping our system alive in our midst. Are we mad? Have we wasted lives and squandered billions in Iraq and Afghanistan on an illusion? Or the delusions of a few politicians?

God damned religion - is there anything it can't screw up?

"We" aren't mad, the namby-pamby multiculturalists that refuse to name the enemy are. Heck, our regime here thinks that one of the missions of NASA, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, is to “reach out to the Muslim world."

Obama’s new mission for NASA: Reach out to Muslim world
(http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/obamas-new-mission-for-nasa-reach-out-to-muslim-world-97785979.html#ixzz0sr3ApBh6)


In a far-reaching restatement of goals for the nation’s space agency, NASA administrator Charles Bolden says President Obama has ordered him to pursue three new objectives: to “re-inspire children” to study science and math, to “expand our international relationships,” and to “reach out to the Muslim world.” Of those three goals, Bolden said in a recent interview with al-Jazeera, the mission to reach out to Muslims is “perhaps foremost,” because it will help Islamic nations “feel good” about their scientific accomplishments.

"We" haven't gone mad, but the current regime has lost it's freakin' mind.

God damned religion - is there anything it can't up?

You know NK, my religion not only celebrates freedom and democracy, but tens of thousands of its men and women volunteer to defend it with their lives. They've earned your appreciation and respect.

"Obama's new mission for NASA: Reach out to Muslim world
(http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/obamas-new-mission-for-nasa-reach-out-to-muslim-world-97785979.html#ixzz0sr3ApBh6)

"We" haven't gone mad, but the current regime has lost it's freakin' mind.

Is it any wonder? You elected a president who has a muslim upbringing and no amount of later life experiences is going to override what he learned as a child. Sometimes the rhetoric just has to be called what it is B/S

I'm surprised he is not reaching out to the martians also, after all we invaded their world. What does he think space will do for Muslims? They haven't come to grips with the wide open spaces of their desert lands yet, hey I'm all for shooting them all into space.

They've earned your appreciation and respect.Hahahhaa... you're joking ,right?

God damned religion - is there anything it can't screw up?

Look, it is well known religion will kill you, but the truth will set you free, that is not so well known or respected

I know the truth, I am free. What am I missing?

I know the truth, I am free. What am I missing?

Ah, that is apparently for me to know and you to find out, Let me know if you want any help

Oh the arrogance... LOL!

Is it any wonder? you elected a president who has a muslim upbringing

I didn't elect him.

Hahahhaa... you're joking ,right?

Are you serious? You mock Christians that put their lives on the line for freedom? That's beyond pathetic.

Are you serious? You mock Christians that put their lives on the line for freedom? That's beyond pathetic.They are not christians they are people: atheist, christians, jews, geeks, jocks, baldies, preppies, etc. It's people, individuals, not a specific group. What's really pathetic is that of all the people that gave their lives for a cause the only ones you care about are ones who are like you.

They are not christians they are people: atheist, christians, jews, geeks, jocks, baldies, preppies, etc. It's people, individuals, not a specific group.

Quit moving the goalpost. I made no claim that only Christians fight for our freedoms, I merely rebutted your notion that religion screws up everything by stating a fact you refuse to acknowledge.


What's really pathetic is that of all the people that gave their lives for a cause the only ones you care about are ones who are like you.


You have no clue.

You people here are the snipiest I've seen in some time. XD

Religion will always be around. There will always be people who use this to their advantage and steer a population wrong. This doesn't mean the entire religion is flawed, it just means that the people who bend to extremism ARE.

That being said, I'm agnostic. :P

You people here are the snipiest I've seen in some time. XD

Religion will always be around. There will always be people who use this to their advantage and steer a population wrong. This doesn't mean the entire religion is flawed, it just means that the people who bend to extremism ARE.

That being said, I'm agnostic. :P

Double-post fail -.-

You people here are the snipiest I've seen in some time. xD

Religion will always be around. There will always be people who use this to their advantage and steer a population wrong. This doesn't mean the entire religion is flawed, it just means that the people who bend to extremism ARE.

That being said, I'm agnostic. :P

We weren't actually discussing religion but questioning the view put forward by a Muslim fundamentalist that democracy cannot be part of a muslim's philosopy and therefore such people should not be part of a democratic society

Are we mad? Have we wasted lives and squandered billions in Iraq and Afghanistan on an illusion? or the delusions of a few politicians?Hello clete:

Mad?? The world IS upside down, I'll grant you. People DO twist concepts to meet their own evil ends. But, it's not just the Muslims. We seem to do it too. Take the concept of "law and order", a right wing favorite. Here's how it stacks up these days:

* If you torture people or eavesdrop on Americans without the warrants required by the criminal law, you receive immunity because we're looking forward - not backward.

* If you shoot and kill unarmed rescuers of the wounded while occupying their country and severely wound their unarmed children sitting in a van, or if you authorize that conduct, your actions are commended.

* If you disclose to the world evidence of war crimes, government lawbreaking, or serious corruption, or otherwise embarrass the U.S. you will be swiftly prosecuted (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/07/world/middleeast/07wikileaks.html?ref=world)to the fullest extent of the law and face decades in prison.

But, what do I know about law and order??

excon

If you disclose to the world evidence of war crimes, government lawbreaking, or serious corruption, or otherwise embarrass the U.S. you will be swiftly prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and face decades in prison.

The current regime doesn't think much of whistleblowers (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/17/us/politics/17signing.html), that's for sure.

Evidently Excon thinks it perfectly acceptable for a pfc to make the determination when it's OK to violate the Uniform Code of Military Justice .

Evidently Excon thinks it perfectly acceptable for a pfc to make the determination when it's ok to violate the Uniform Code of Military Justice .Hello tom:

You're exactly right.

Just like I'm able to read and understand the Constitution, I was able to read and understand the UCMJ. That didn't mean that I was supposed to countenance murder and keep my mouth shut, though. Was I able to distinguish murder from war? Yes, I was. Was this PFC able to make that same distinction? Yes, he was. Is it GOOD that he let us know what our military is doing in OUR names?? YES! Was it good that Daniel Ellsberg let us know what the government was doing in Vietnam?? YES!

excon

It's not a pfc .who decided what is and what isn't 'classified ' or top-secret information .This type of release gives aid and comfort to the enemy;especially when handed over to hacks like Wikileaks who now evidently are sole arbiters of who an "innocent bystander" is in the middle of a battle(and a small portion of the battle field at that ).

The funny thing is the only reason he was caught was for releasing diplomatic exchanges between Evita and other world leaders .I guess that was OK too. Why not let specialist Manning run the Defense and State Depts too ?
He sees a small narrow part of the big picture and has no clue about the content of the stuff he released .

I hope his sense of patriotism is satisfied as he does 20 years hard labor . Maybe that will give him the time to contemplate how many American lives will be lost because of his actions .

I hope his sense of patriotism is satisfied as he does 20 years hard labor . Maybe that will give him the time to contemplate how many American lives will be lost because of his actions .Hello again, tom:

It's no surprise that we disagree. Ellsberg SAVED lives. So did this guy.

excon

Until someone can point out exactly where the men in those helicopters weren't doing their job, there's nothing for this disgruntled pfc to leak. Reuters had already been allowed to view the video at the time their reporters were killed and have acknowledged it as “graphic evidence of the dangers involved in war journalism and the tragedies that can result.” Bad stuff happens in war, but where was the crime?

Hello again, tom:

It's no surprise that we disagree. Ellsberg SAVED lives. So did this guy.

excon

How did he save lives ? There was nothing in the Pentagon Papers that was current. Much of it dated back to Ike! They would not have even made a dent in the debate over the war had Nixon not over-reacted to them.

Yes the Pentagon Papers showed that a bunch of war options were considered and planned throughout the history of the conflict , including the expansion of the war despite Johnson's denial during a Presidential campaign . [Remember Wilson's campaign in 1916 'He kept us out of the war " ? Politicians sometimes lie... duh ]

The sad part about the whole affair is that because of Nixon's illegal activities Ellsburg walked .

Ironically even Ellsburg had lines he wouldn't cross including the release of diplomatic exchanges . Mattingly needs to understand how dangerous and irresponsible that is . Under UCMJ there are proper avenues for him to take what he knows if he thinks something is wrong(including to Congress) . It is not up to him to decide what should or shouldn't be classified... end of story !

Ellsburg and Mattingly may think that by acting outside the rule of law that they are as noble as Thoreau .But Mattingly should pray every day that revised ROEs etc that come from such revelations don't cost any of his brothers in arm their lives . Save lives indeed !

They both undermine the legitimate protection our legal system affords to national security secrets and the elected officials who make that determination ;and sets up the leaker as the sole arbiter of the public's right to know.

I hope his sense of patriotism is satisfied as he does 20 years hard labor . .

Ah patriotism, I think I have have heard that as the defense of a scoundrel