My son was caught shop lifting some video games from Walmart. Loss Prevention took him back and got the police on the phone. Loss Prevention gave a statement to the police, asked my son some questions and had my son a promise note to make payments which he is doing. He was not arrested. He was not advised of his Miranda rights. Today he got a subpoena in the mail to appear at an arraignment for theft in the third degree. I am confused. He wasn't arrested, he was not read his MR and offered a lawyer. What should I do?? Will he be offered a public defender at the arraignment??

Hi, decostar!

This is the really old thread of someone else. It now archived and not visible anymore on the list of currently active threads. Plus, this site doesn't work the same way that a chat room does. New questions need to be asked by starting new threads.

If you would like your question to be noticed the most, then I would suggest that you start a new thread.

Thanks!

Dear Clough, that was not my question. No sure why mind didn't post but I will post MY QUESTION again. ")

My son was caught shop lifting some video games from Walmart. Loss Prevention took him back and got the police on the phone. Loss Prevention gave a statement to the police, asked my son some questions and had my son a promise note to make payments which he is doing. He was not arrested. He was not advised of his Miranda rights. Today he got a subpoena in the mail to appear at an arraignment for theft in the third degree. I am confused. He wasn't arrested, he was not read his MR and offered a lawyer. What should I do?? Will he be offered a public defender at the arraignment??

I can see where you have now posted a question by starting a new thread, decostar.

Thanks!

You are watching way too much TV. Most criminals are caught, arrested and convicted and never read their "rights" Rights have to do with questioning when a suspect under police custody.

There are no rights when held by security people. They have no obligation or requirement to give any rights.

The notice he got now, is for a first appearance, at that, the state will prove enough evidence to hold him for court ( or he may plead guilty)

At best the only thing he could argue was any statement he made after the police were on the phone, or if the police asked him questions on the phone. Those answers can or could maybe be thrown out.

All evidence, witness of his theft, statements of the loss prevention that they saw him steal, and any statement he made to Loss prevention prior to the police being envolved can all still be used.

Oh, good!

They will put him in jail on the day of his arraignment until court? All this for two video games, sucks! He will get a public defender on that day as well?

How can he charged with a crime if the police didn't arrest him on that day?? Walmart told him nothing more would happen because the police were too busy to come down and arrest him.

had my son a promise note to make payments which he is doing. Hello d:

I don't know where you got that he's going to be arrested at his arraignment... The Padre didn't say that. He's NOT going to jail for this.

I wouldn't make any payments either... Why would he? I'm sure they got their video games back. I'd tell them to pound sand. If they sued him in civil court, they'd LOSE. He owes 'em NOTHING.

excon

Dear Clough, will they put him in jail on the day of his arraignment until court? All this for two video games, sucks! He will get a public defender on that day as well? How can he charged with a crime if the police didn't arrest him on that day?? Walmart told him nothing more would happen because the police were too busy to come down and arrest him.

>Multiple Threads & Posts merged<

Should he just plead quilty at the arraignment? Can we change the arraignment date? We are flying to RI 1 through 8 July, booked back in March.

Do you have an attorney? If you do have an attorney the attorney can file paperwork which enters your not guilty plea which would mean that you don't have to appear at the arraignment. If you do not have an attorney you must show up period. Just having booked a flight back in March might not mean anything to the Judge and he won't change the date. Anyway, why have you waited this long to even bring this up? If you had asked as soon as you knew the arraignment date you just might have gotten it changed. But now, I'm not too sure you are able to get it changed.

Again - another new thread instead of a reply on the other threads. If he pleads guilty he will be found guilty - all other rights to trial, facing his accusors, all of that go down the tubes. It's over. You need an Attorney because you obviously don't understand how the system works.

Also - you are upset because he was charged with "only" stealing two video games? I trust you have spoken to him and his stealing days are over - ?

Again - another new thread instead of a reply on the other threads. If he pleads guilty he will be found guilty - all other rights to trial, facing his accusors, all of that go down the tubes. It's over. You need an Attorney because you obviously don't understand how the system works.

Also - you are upset because he was charged with "only" stealing two video games? I trust you have spoken to him and his stealing days are over - ?

How do I response without starting a new thread? A. He is 25 and I just found out that this incident happened in back in May 2010. B. I am upset because he is could be so much more. C. We just got the subpoena in the mail yesterday. He cannot afford a lwayer, he is unemployment and has a 1 year old who is on welfare and WIC.

How do I response without starting a new thread?? A. He is 25 and I just found out that this incident happened in back in May 2010. B. I am upset because he is could be so much more. C. We just got the subpoena in the mail yesterday. He cannot afford a lwayer, he is unemployment and has a 1 year old who is on welfare and WIC.

OK so I just figured how to respond... cool.

Do you have an attorney? If you do have an attorney the attorney can file paperwork which enters your not guilty plea which would mean that you don't have to appear at the arraignment. If you do not have an attorney you must show up period. Just having booked a flight back in March might not mean anything to the Judge and he won't change the date. Anyway, why have you waited this long to even bring this up? If you had asked as soon as you knew the arraignment date you just might have gotten it changed. But now, I'm not too sure you are able to get it changed.

We just received the subpoena yesterday in mail.

you are watching way to much TV. Most criminals are caught, arrested and convicted and never read thier "rights" Rights have to do with questioning when a suspect under police custody.

There are no rights when held by security people. They have no obligation or requirement to give any rights.

The notice he got now, is for a first appearance, at that, the state will prove enough evidence to hold him for court ( or he may plead guilty)

At best the only thing he could argue was any statement he made after the police were on the phone, or if the police asked him questions on the phone. Those answers can or could maybe be thrown out.

All evidence, witness of his theft, statements of the loss prevention that they saw him steal, and any statement he made to Loss prevention prior to the police being envolved can all still be used.

Should he just plead Guilty? They caught him red-handed. Shouldn't he just show to the arraignment? And why is he paying Walmart if they got the items back anyway? He never made it out of the store.

He asks for court appointed counsel. I thought he was going on vacation with you; apparently he is not. You don't have to be at his arraignment.

Was he stealing video games to sell them to assist his child?

He asks for court appointed counsel. I thought he was going on vacation with you; apparently he is not. You don't have to be at his arraignment.

Was he stealing video games to sell them to assist his child?

I booked tickets to take him and his son to see his 93 year old Nana. It is important for her to see him before she dies and we think it will be sometime this year. Can we call the court clerk on Monday and ask for his public defender now so we can beg for a new arraignment date? We are home on 8 July 2010. We only need a few days. This sucks.

I personally think it's too late but you don't know until you try. Walmart doesn't fool around so I believe I would go to the Clerk's office in person (he would be the one to go). Walmart may very well not care if he is nconvenienced. If he had been stealing diapers, something for the baby, I can see more sympathy (although, as I said, Walmart doesn't fool around).

I personally think it's too late but you don't know until you try. Walmart doesn't fool around so I believe I would go to the Clerk's office in person (he would be the one to go). Walmart may very well not care if he is nconvenienced. If he had been stealing diapers, something for the baby, I can see more sympathy (although, as I said, Walmart doesn't fool around).

The night it happened Walmart said the police were not coming and he just needed to pay restitution (even though they got their merchandise back).
Why did he pay if they got their stuff back anyway? I guess they filed a complaint later on without telling Ron? Ron paid them and now we suddenly get this two months later. We will go to the court house Monday morning. Thanks.

Not the least bit unusual - and this argument is posted on the Board all the time - for the store to demand restitution for the time/effort they put into the shoplifting arrest. They had no obligation to tell your son that he would eventually be charged.

Let us know how it works out tomorrow, okay?

I hope this shakes him up so badly that he gets his life on track. I will let you know what happens. ")

On misdemeanors ( minor theft is one) they don't have to arrest you the day it happens, and in many places may not ( some they merely issue a ticket ( which is a summons to appear in court)

But they have in some states from 6 months to one year to actually file charges after you do a crime.

So at the first hearing, what happens, the charges are read, and he is asked to plead. *** in some states the DA will have to present enough evidence, but not all, just to prove they have enough evidence to proceed to trial.

At this point, he may ask for a court appointed attorney, each state differs on it, and not everyone is always given an attorney, some of the things they look at.
1. is there a bail and did they pay bail, in GA for example if you have the money to make bail, the state will argue that you have enough money to pay an attorney.
2. Also if it is done as a city citation, not a misdemeanor, an attorney is not given.
Also there are income guidelines and other rules to be given an attorney.

Also they do not always ask you if you want one, you have to ask them. The Miranda has been weakened dozens of times and there is not a absolute right to an attorney, the courts can set up guidelines.

The complaint was done if they called the police when he was there, and the police were on the phone. That would have started it, or the LP department filed it with the DA latter.

The money the store asks for, covers, not really the stolen item, if they get it back, but management time, the LP officers time, the time they lose going and testifying in court and other costs that "all" thefts cost the store.

If he is not on probation, and if he does not have a record, then he will get at worst a fine and probation.

Beyond that, he may get a first offender program, so after probation the record of this is sealed

Good stuff. He went down this morning and is asking for a public defender so he can find some answers. It is a first time offense. He has already paid restitution to the store as well. He was told he would know if DA is filing offense within 30 days... we waited two months and nothing.
So we booked tixs to RI as his dad called and said his Gma is 94 now and this could be her last year. So 1-8 July 2010 we are in RI. Bad thing is his subpoena which just came on Saturday said arraignment is 6 Jul 10. He is finding out about moving that date 3 days or what will happen if he misses that date. Court clerk told him the latest they accept due to family emergency is 48 hours and that he must be at court NLT 5 pm on 8 July 10. We don't land until 11:00 pm that night. So he is asking what happens when he misses the arraignment and reports on the 9th. He is willing to sit in jail for his dying Grandma, she helped raise him and he means everything to her. All this for two stupid video games. :(

So he is asking what happens when he misses the arraignment and reports on the 9th. He is willing to sit in jail for his dying GrandmaHello again, d:

Restitution is when someone is paid BACK. Wal Mart is ahead on the deal. I'd SUE them.

You/he says he's willing to sit in jail, but that's cheap talk. Neither YOU nor HE knows what he's talking about. You've been in jail, yourself, have you?? Unless you have, I wouldn't be so cavalier with HIS freedom.

excon

As far as restitution and suing Walmart, my buddy Excon and I have danced this dance before. Demanding resitution even when the merchandise has been returned is not against the Law, it's a common practice, I've seen Courts ORDER it - plus fines, plus whatever else strikes the Court's fancy. I see no grounds to sue Walmart. In fact, I see paying this restitution to be in your son's favor - he needs (and hopefully is) to be repentant and paying Walmart back for its time and trouble is part of that.

Again, I know Excon doesn't agree and I agree that store security was getting paid whether they were sitting there or stopping your son but they also have to fill out papers for the Police, appear in Court - and they're hoping to get some of that money back AND make an impression on the shoplifter.

In my area - and I don't know how far you are from the Airport - if you are scheduled for an 8PM appearance you will be sitting in the Courtroom (very possibly growing moss, as I like to say) at 11PM - can he make it to Court while it is still in session?

If he does not appear there is a very good possibility a warrant will be issued for his arrest and he COULD be arrested when he does appear, even if it's first thing the next morning. I'd think of other possibilities.

I realize you are doing a lot of arranging and re-arranging. I trust his life is also disrupted and he's learned something - keeping my fingers crossed.

Has he talked to the Public Defender? If it's a heavy Court night the PD can request that your son's appearance be at the very end, buying him some time.

I agree with the video games thing - whatever was he thinking? I'm sure he doesn't even know.

Keep us informed.

(With apologies to Excon for this rather public disagreement... but we've been down this road before.)

Dear JudyKayTree

You are correct on all accounts. Restitution is for time and energy spent on processing shop lifters even when they get the "merchandise" back.
He went to the court clerk today. He is going to miss his arraignment but surrender on the 9th of July. A misdemeanor arraignment defendant gets 48 hours after the original date before they begin the process for a warrant. The court clerk said they don't issue warrants for misdemeanors as quickly as they would for a felony so she is aware he will be there first thing on 9 July 2010. His last name starts with W so by the time a clerk got to his name on the 9th, he will have already surrendered. He has paid all restitution and this is his first time offense ever. He asked for a public defender today but she said to just do it again when he surrenders on 9 July 2010. He was nervous and scared most of the day and even apologized to me for causing so much trouble which he hasn't done in years so it must have really rattled him. God works in mysterious ways and I think this is just the scare that will turn him around. So we leave in three days and hope no funerals are needed while we are on the east coast.

Wow - this info will be most helpful to someone else down the road.

Glad this made an impression on him - sometimes a good scare is all it takes.

Be safe on your trip.